[Peace-discuss] [Discuss] [CentralILJwJ] Fw: Fw: What hath got rot?

Fri Mar 26 10:31:32 CDT 2010

Again--Thank you Claudia for the additional "user-friendly" breakdown of
this Health Reform bill.  Coming from someone who I know has read the more
complex jargon and who has weighed that against and for the current pre and
post Bill----your input is extremely on point-----that said...

There are way too many folks on these listservs who simply come in and
agitate for the joy of creating a discussion and or dissension.  What I find
hypocritical is the complete contradiction of one of the most outspoken
nay-sayers on this listserv always sitting in judgment of the
"establishment" so-to-speak, when they themselves are sitting on full and
enjoying the benefits of the "establishment"?  Great pension from the
University, a spouse who has a great pension from the University, owners of
more than a quarter of a million dollars (a conservative estimate) worth of
properties in C-U alone----yet always seeming to speak and act and voice
their protests as if they are one of the proletarians or even that they have
experienced such hardship within the last 30 years---at least.

To me, that is beyond disingenuous and detrimental to those poor and working
class folk who really need this help.  I, for one, don't mind giving more in
taxes or whatever it takes---if it can help provide an equitable health care
system for everyone---

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Claudia Lennhoff <claudia at shout.net>wrote:

> This is a pretty disappointing and unhelpful turn of the discussion.
>
> If someone wants to know whether and how they will benefit from this plan,
> you can e-mail me -- I'll ask you some questions, and then get back to you
> with some information.
>
> "The working poor will not benefit from this bill." Really? Explain to me
> how the working poor will not benefit.
>
> Is it because you have the idea that "those of us who make around
> $1000/month will NEVER, EVER be able to afford the $200-300/month minimum
> premiums?" Where is it that you have read that if you have a $12,000 a year
> income, you will have to purchase health insurance with a premium of up to
> $300/mo.? This is simply not true under the health reform law.
>
> Here are some facts about the new health reform law (this doesn't include
> what is in the budget reconciliation bill, since that has not yet passed)
> (oh yeah, and this information does NOT come from the corporate media or the
> Democratic party -- those are not CCHCC's go-to sources):
>
> Medicaid is being expanded tremendously, AND the assets test is being done
> away with (so, having burial insurance will no longer push you over the
> limit financially and prevent you from qualifying for Medicaid), as well as
> the requirement that Medicaid only be available to adults who have minor
> children (many states have this requirement).
>
> So, this means that, under the new law (the budget reconciliation act will
> expand it further), single or married adults, working or non-working,
> parents or non-parents, who have incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty
> level ($14,412 annual for an individual; $24,360 annual for a family of 3)
> will be eligible for Medicaid health insurance, and will have NO premiums.
>
> You think this won't help the working poor? Consider the working poor of
> Missouri. Current Medicaid eligibility in Missouri is dismal.
>
> A working parent in Missouri *may* qualify for Medicaid if their income is
> at 42% of the federal poverty level or below. That is an income of about
> $4,500. That's right -- $4,500 annual income. You must earn BELOW that, to
> qualify for Medicaid.
>
> Now take a non-working parent in Missouri. They *may* qualify for Medicaid
> in Missouri if their income is at 22% federal poverty level or below. That
> is an annual income of under $2,400.
>
> There are states with even worse Medicaid eligibility criteria than
> Missouri -- imagine having to have an income lower than $3,000 annually in
> order to qualify for Medicaid. And now it will go up to at least $14,412.
>
> Medicaid is a public option health insurance requiring no premium, and
> typically no co-pays (co-pays may be between $1 - $3).
>
> A huge proportion of the people who may not qualify for Medicaid but will
> instead get private insurance through the health exchange will qualify for
> subsidies to help make that insurance more affordable.
>
> For example, an individual making $24,000 who has to buy private health
> insurance will be asked to pay 31% of the health insurance premium, up to
> $1,693 annually. An individual making $19,000 will be asked to pay 18% of
> the premium, up to $982 a year.
>
> There will be no co-pays or co-insurance for preventive care visits -- so
> mammograms, annual exams, colonoscopies, etc. will not cost anything out of
> pocket. There will be caps on out-of-pocket expenses so if someone requires
> a lot of care and has to pay co-pays or co-insurance, they will have
> financial protection from having huge medical debt.
>
> People want to talk about the cost of paying for health insurance as being
> prohibitive, but fail to ever talk about the fact that having no insurance
> is cost-prohibitive in a very real way.
>
> Uninsured people delay, forego, and are refused care when they need it. A
> price is paid for that. Maybe it's in the form of higher cost for care when
> care is finally sought. It's certainly in the form of suffering and being
> ill longer, and perhaps dying prematurely. And it may also take the form of
> lost wages from work missed. Those are real costs being paid now all the
> time.
>
> No one has said that this is a "great" health plan -- so to characterize
> people's positions that way is divisive and disingenuous.
>
> It is also inaccurate and intentionally divisive, it seems to me, to
> suggest that those who currently have health insurance support this health
> reform law and do not support single payer, while those who are uninsured
> support single payer and not this health reform. I work with thousands of
> individuals from our community and this is just not the case.
>
> Also, I might note that many of the people on these listservs who support
> this health reform (not because it's "great" or "perfect" but because it
> will help people and it is better than nothing) are, and have been actively
> involved in working for single payer.
>
> CCHCC held a couple of single payer events last year. I remember all the
> people who participated and lent their support (thank you!). There will be
> more to come on single payer and people will have plenty of opportunity to
> do real work for single payer.
>
> But the single payer movement is NOT helped by half-truths or falsehoods
> about the current health reform law. It is perfectly fine and good to
> critique the current health reform law, but it is really disingenuous and
> dangerous to say that it will not help people. That's simply not true.
>
> The single payer movement will require people to be informed, and be
> willing to educate, and not attack others with whom they do not agree
> completely.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Claudia Lennhoff, CCHCC Executive Director
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/25/10 6:59 PM, unionyes wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> To Jenifer and the rest of you that think the Obama so called " health
>> care reform bill " is so great and that any of us who criticize it don't
>> care about their fellow human beings.
>> First of all, I want to ask Jenifer if she has health insurance and if
>> so what type ?
>> Secondly, this posting by Dave P. sums up my feelings perfectly.
>> WE, the working poor, Myself included, are the ones who will NOT benefit
>> from this Bill.
>> Easy for many of the rest of you to say it is so great when you already
>> have health insurance and won't have to face the prospect of a fine and
>> still have no health care.
>> As Dave P. states below, Single Payer IS the ONLY REAL public option.
>> Again, most of you who support the Obama plan, already have health
>> insurance and / or you are relying on info provided to you via the
>> corporate media and the democratic party.
>> Who along with the repubs prevented for day one ANY discussion about
>> single payer.
>> David J.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* pengdust at aol.com <mailto:pengdust at aol.com>
>> *To:* ls1000 at live.com <mailto:ls1000 at live.com> ; jbw292002 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jbw292002 at gmail.com> ; galliher at illinois.edu
>> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>
>> *Cc:* Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> ;
>> discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org
>> <mailto:discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:54 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] [Peace-discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?
>>
>> As an anarchist and a "precarious-shit-worker" who does do the
>> 'grub-work,' I take offense to this "individualistic libertarian
>> anarchists" claim. We, anarcho-PSWs, do not have cushy university jobs
>> with health-care, sick days, vacations, living wages... or the time,
>> privelege, and luxury for academic debates. It is true, those of us who
>> make around $1000/month will NEVER, EVER be able to afford the
>> $200-300/month minimum premiums to fucking corporations after paying
>> some $400 in rent alone! [Add $200-300/loans in student loans, $150 in
>> other bills, etc... and there's nothing left for food. Keeps me in my
>> boyish figure I guess /;-)/ ] Simply, everyday life is always a losing
>> battle... we're working-poor and we're FUCKED, this is real. And, the
>> $700 penalty on top of taxes will only make things worse! Now, for those
>> who make some $40,000/yr this all may be doable, and an improvement, but
>> for many of us who don't it's completely impossible unless the feds pay
>> %100 of our premiums.... i.e., SINGLE-PAYER. So, single-payer is the
>> ONLY improvement for us, and the ONLY solution that was never on the
>> table! [thanks to Both Dems and Reps]
>>
>>
>>
>>
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