[Peace-discuss] ron paul, teabaggers, and some of their best friends

[John W.]

The obvious answer is that our motivation was mixed.  I recall supporting
the Viet Nam war in high school, because my parents did.  I even wrote a
paper about it which I still have somewhere: "Why We Are in Viet Nam".  It
contains every cliche you can imagine.

But then I went to college in 1967, turned 18 and became draft age early in
1968, and grew a brain.  At some point they instituted the draft lottery,
and I got a fairly low number.  With my new personal vulnerability, it
didn't take long to conclude that _I_ didn't want MY ass shot off in some
jungle in southeast Asia for reasons that were unclear at best.  That's when
I began reading and learning about the war and about American foreign policy
in general - in large part to be armed with rational and moral
justifications for my unwilliingness to "serve my country" in that way.  Of
course at that time in history it wasn't hard to find material to read.

I'd say in my case the self-interest came first, followed by a moral
awakening.  My experience is that in the case of human beings, self-interest
almost always comes first.

John Wason


On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>wrote:



> It strikes me that everything that you say may be true, --or not. We have
> our own biases here to contend with. We would need some kind of poll to help
> resolve the issue, a poll among those who participated. Or at least
> statements from activist leaders of the movement at that time. I was only a
> very sympathetic onlooker, but I would not discount the fact(?) that many
> students felt threatened by the prospect of fighting a murderous war in a
> remote foreign land. So, indeed, self interest was apparent. However, it had
> beneficial results for everyone concerned (except those supporting the
> war).
>
> --mkb
>
>   On May 4, 2010, at 7:00 PM, David Green wrote:
>
>    In my opinion, the student antiwar movement of the 1960s (which was
> part of a much larger antiwar movement, including soldiers themselves), was
> NOT motivated by self-interest or even self-preservation. It was motivated
> by the spirit of resistance of the Civil Rights Movement and the Free Speech
> Movement, the Black Power Movement and the specter of the urban rebellions.
> It was motivated by a truth-seeking culture, however one may view the
> specifics in retrospect, engendered by radical journalists, and folk
> troubadors and rockers alike; and yes, by the "alternative consciousness"
> movement that--whatever one thinks about it--was not compatible with
> dropping napalm on Asian peasants because they were called Communists by the
> president. It was motivated by a literary culture that was relatively common
> (in relation to any such thing now), from Catch 22 to Soul on Ice, and
> widely seen films like "Battle of Algiers." And it was motivated by the
> blatant military-industrial research complex on campus, as well as all of
> the dreadful "social science" that went along with that (including
> pseudo-Freudian explanations for adolescent rebellion). In addition, it was
> motivated by an increased appreciation of the "3rd world" of consisting of
> something other than the spoils of capitalism or Stalinism. A short list, of
> course, that would have to inlcude the arrogance of leaders of the day. And
> finally, for whatever reason, it didn't burst forth as a mass movement until
> a couple of cohorts that had been somewhat (however poorly) prepared for
> this in high school had entered college.
>
> DG
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>; Peace Discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Tue, May 4, 2010 5:51:18 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul, teabaggers, and some of their
> best friends
>
> "The usual explanations for the difference between then and now
> won't do. The suggestion, for example, that the renewal of a
> military draft would ignite students' self-interest doesn't
> account for the fact that most 60s-era students were sufficiently
> sheltered from the draft to make their chances of seeing combat
> negligible. Lewis B. Hershey, director of the Selective Service
> until 1970, granted draft deferments to students and some
> white-collar professionals on the reasoning that engineers,
> scientists, and teachers were essential to national security and
> the war effort. By the time the lottery system evened the playing
> field somewhat in 1969, 'Vietnamization' was under way, and the
> number of combat roles filled by American GI's began shrinking."
>
> http://chronicle.com/article/The-Times-They-Changed/65192/
>
>
> On 5/4/10 4:54 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > The only way to get ANY folks out of the woodwork to protest the US's
> > imperialist wars is to reinstate the draft. How 'bout we [peace
> activists]
> > start a rumor that that's in the works and see what happens? Add that to
> > blogs and picket signs, get talk radio hosts ranting about it. Worth a
> try
> > :-) -- Jenifer
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 5/3/10, Ricky Baldwin /<baldwinricky at yahoo.com>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:
> [Peace-discuss]
> > ron paul, teabaggers, and some of their best friends To: "E.Wayne
> Johnson"
> > <ewj at pigs.ag> Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date:
> > Monday, May 3, 2010, 11:06 AM
> >
> > Wayne, I assume you are referring here to the "tea party" as the
> rebellion?
> > I think there's an element of that, but it's dragged so far out of that
> > orbit by the weight of its racism and Know-Nothingism, homophobia and
> fear
> > of socialism, and miscellaneous rightwing conspiracy theories, that it's
> > more likely to push national policy away from anything that might help
> > working people than accomplish anything good and decent...
>
>

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