[Peace-discuss] This list is for brief announcements only
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at illinois.edu
Thu Oct 21 19:19:56 CDT 2010
Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?
'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the right to
tell people what they do not want to hear'.
Amen.
On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>> Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace Discuss?
>>
>> I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing people
>> in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
> Carl, and all,
>
> Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
> It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
> who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
>
> If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues involved,
> please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
>
>> On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
>>> Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>>>
>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>> To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss"
>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>>>
>>> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls
>>> "The
>>> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a
>>> million
>>> people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the
>>> tens
>>> of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under Bush;
>>> and
>>> apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third
>>> (Obama)
>>> term.
>>>
>>> That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but of
>>> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified by
>>> being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.
>>>
>>> It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a
>>> tick
>>> up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser
>>> Zbigniew
>>> Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before
>>> the
>>> Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as he
>>> said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.
>>>
>>> If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to
>>> an
>>> end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded by
>>> Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The
>>> news
>>> suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war
>>> with
>>> an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to
>>> abandon
>>> the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>>>
>>> Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US
>>> foreign
>>> policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to
>>> "stop
>>> terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie,
>>> because
>>> the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast is
>>> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September
>>> 2001
>>> - which is directed against terrorism.
>>>
>>> Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in
>>> America,
>>> "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb
>>> Caen:
>>> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The
>>> Russians
>>> did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.
>>>
>>> Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from
>>> office
>>> and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army to
>>> do it.
>>>
>>> Regards, CGE
>>>
>>> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>> So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either Iraq
>>>> or
>>>> Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about
>>>> them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
>>>> And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who doesn't
>>>> mind
>>>> us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not
>>>> all of
>>>> us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions
>>>> are
>>>> nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
>>>> All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why don't
>>>> you
>>>> come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from the
>>>> sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get
>>>> behind you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>> *To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>> </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>> *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace List
>>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>;
>>>> Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>
>>>> You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII -
>>>> called
>>>> by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic
>>>> administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the
>>>> current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing in
>>>> AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their
>>>> policies.
>>>> Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>>>>
>>>> To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians,
>>>> because
>>>> they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of
>>>> despair,
>>>> if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems
>>>> that
>>>> they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
>>>> surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks,
>>>> the
>>>> insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc. --CGE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>>> Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/ agree
>>>>> with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're
>>>>> in
>>>>> 100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war is
>>>>> an
>>>>> absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that
>>>>> way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans
>>>>> get
>>>>> elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> *Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss
>>>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>>
>>>>> This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war
>>>>> list
>>>>> would contribute to him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>>>> Another request for help...
>>>>>> I love this guy!
>>>>>> --Jenifer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
>>>>>> /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>/*wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Make 10 calls now!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Jenifer,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This election is about the people standing against corporate
>>>>>> special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads
>>>>>> because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote
>>>>>> – people can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Central Florida are voting right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our
>>>>>> winning
>>>>>> margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and
>>>>>> asking
>>>>>> them to vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>,
>>>>>> or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting tool
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Truth,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan Grayson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make
>>>>>> calls
>>>>>> on another day between now and Election Day, November 2. Every
>>>>>> voter you talk to will make a difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sign up now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan Grayson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> empowered by Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
>>>>>> Web Bug from
>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>
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