[Peace-discuss] [Peace] This list is for brief announcements only

C. G. Estabrook galliher at illinois.edu
Fri Oct 22 14:43:57 CDT 2010


The government that we are responsible for - and the president whom many people 
in the anti-war movement supported and worked for - is burning children half a 
world away - and you're concerned about /negativity/?

Here's an announcement: if you want some real negativity, tune into /News from 
Neptune /tonight at 7pm on cable channel 6.  I do my best.

Or see the website at /<newsfromneptune.com>/.  Or the FB page; search 
/newsfromneptune/.


On 10/22/10 12:04 PM, Sarah Phillips wrote:
> I second that one, Katina. As a student who likes to attend peace events once 
> in awhile when I have the time, I'd prefer to decide if I want to engage in 
> discussions, or listen in on them. The negativity has become a little 
> overwhelming on an event list-serv. Thanks all.
>
>
> Sarah Phillips
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Katina Bolos <katworm1 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:katworm1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     If you want to have a discussion please take it elsewhere or at least
>     please stop hitting reply all. It is not that we do not want to hear
>     /what/ you have to say but rather that your negativity is not something
>     most peaceful people appreciate. Thank you.
>
>
>     On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu
>     <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>
>         Why? Does your inbox get clogged up?  Does your delete key not work?
>
>         'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the
>         right to tell people what they do not want to hear'.
>
>         Amen.
>
>         On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>
>             On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
>                 Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on
>                 Peace Discuss?
>
>                 I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our
>                 killing people
>                 in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
>
>             Carl, and all,
>
>             Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
>             It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
>             who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
>
>             If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the
>             issues involved,
>             please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
>
>                 On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
>
>                     Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>
>                     --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook
>                     /<galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>/*
>                     wrote:
>
>
>                         From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
>                     <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>                         Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>                         To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com
>                     <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
>                         Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net
>                     <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>, "Peace-discuss"
>                     <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>                     <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>                         Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>
>                         First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the
>                     Pentagon calls
>                     "The
>                         Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast.  So far, the US
>                     has killed a
>                     million
>                         people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State
>                     said that the
>                     tens
>                         of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a
>                     million under Bush;
>                     and
>                         apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush
>                     and his third
>                     (Obama)
>                         term.
>
>                         That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in
>                     SE Asia, but of
>                         course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no
>                     way justified by
>                         being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in
>                     Vietnam.
>
>                         It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins,
>                     but it takes a
>                     tick
>                         up in the Carter administration when Carter (and
>                     Obama's) adviser
>                     Zbigniew
>                         Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into
>                     Afghanistan (before
>                     the
>                         Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of
>                     their own," as he
>                         said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation
>                     to date.
>
>                         If a Republican administration after 2012 brings
>                     Obama's AfPak war to
>                     an
>                         end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic
>                     war concluded by
>                         Republicans in as many generations. But that may not
>                     be likely. The
>                     news
>                         suggests that the Obama administration is looking to
>                     expand the war
>                     with
>                         an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran.  It certainly isn't
>                     looking to
>                     abandon
>                         the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>
>                         Control of Mideast energy resources has been a
>                     cornerstone of US
>                     foreign
>                         policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says
>                     the war is to
>                     "stop
>                         terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he
>                     has to lie,
>                     because
>                         the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war
>                     in the Mideast is
>                         Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military
>                     Force" of September
>                     2001
>                         - which is directed against terrorism.
>
>                         Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great
>                     debate in
>                     America,
>                         "How do we get out of Vietnam?"  The best answer was
>                     given by Herb
>                     Caen:
>                         "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them
>                     home.  The
>                     Russians
>                         did - and survived and prospered from the end of their
>                     war.
>
>                         Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being
>                     driven from
>                     office
>                         and (even more important) a revolt of the American
>                     conscript army  to
>                     do it.
>
>                         Regards, CGE
>
>                         On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>
>                             So I conclude from your statement that you don't
>                         consider either Iraq
>                         or
>                             Afghanistan to be "major" wars.  So why are you so
>                         worked up about
>                         them?     I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
>                             And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of
>                         racist who doesn't
>                         mind
>                             us murdering brown people.  That is /so/ lame.
>                          It's just that not
>                         all of
>                             us see the world in as simple terms as you seem
>                         to.  Simple solutions
>                         are
>                             nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
>                             All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping
>                         the war, why don't
>                         you
>                             come up with something positive to do (as opposed
>                         to sniping from the
>                             sidelines) that might help get us closer to that
>                         goal?  We'll all get
>                             behind you.
>
>
>                         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                             *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
>                         <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>                         </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu
>                         <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>                             *To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com
>                         <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
>                         </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com
>                         <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
>                             *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com
>                         <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
>                         </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com
>                         <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>; Peace List
>                         <peace at lists.chambana.net
>                         <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>
>                         </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net
>                         <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>;
>                             Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>                         <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>                         </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>                         <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>                             *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
>                             *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money
>                         Can't Vote
>
>                             You are aware, are you not, that America's major
>                         wars since WWII -
>                         called
>                             by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started
>                         by Democratic
>                             administrations and ended by Republican
>                         administrations.  Since the
>                             current Democratic administration has greatly
>                         expanded the killing in
>                             AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to
>                         reverse their
>                         policies.
>                             Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>
>                             To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill
>                         some Asians,
>                         because
>                             they might do some good someplace else," is at
>                         best a counsel of
>                         despair,
>                             if not an outright  criminal attitude.
>                          Particularly when it seems
>                         that
>                             they're doing precisely the wrong things
>                         elsewhere, too - not
>                             surprisingly, because they're working for the
>                         owners of the banks,
>                         the
>                             insurance companies, the oil and construction
>                         companies, etc.  --CGE
>
>
>                             On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>
>                                 Maybe because there are other important issues
>                             that she /does/ agree
>                                 with him on.  The only way you're going to
>                             find a candidate you're
>                             in
>                                 100% agreement with is to run for office.  If
>                             support for the war is
>                             an
>                                 absolute deal breaker for you, fine.  Not
>                             everybody sees it that
>                             way.     But if you think the war will end sooner
>                             if more Republicans
>                             get
>                                 elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>
>
>                             --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                 *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
>                             <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>                             </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu
>                             <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>                                 *To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com
>                             <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
>                             </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com
>                             <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
>                                 *Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net
>                             <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>
>                             </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net
>                             <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>; Peace-discuss
>                             <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>                             <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>                             </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>                             <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>                                 *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
>                                 *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw:
>                             Money Can't Vote
>
>                                 This guy supports the war. I can't see why
>                             anyone on an anti-war
>                             list
>                                 would contribute to him.
>
>
>                                 On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>
>                                     Another request for help...
>                                     I love this guy!
>                                      --Jenifer
>
>                                     --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
>                                     /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com
>                                 <mailto:alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>>
>                                 </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com
>                                 <mailto:alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>>/*wrote:
>
>                                        
>                                 *CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>
>
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>
>
>                                         *Make 10 calls now!
>
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*
>
>                                         Dear Jenifer,
>
>                                         This election is about the people
>                                 standing against corporate
>                                         special interests, which are trying to
>                                 bury me with lying ads
>                                         because they know I can’t be bought.
>                                 But money can’t vote
>                                 – people can.
>
>                                         This week is the first week of Early
>                                 Vote, which means people
>                                 in
>                                         Central Florida are voting right now.
>
>                                         Getting our supporters to the polls
>                                 now could make up our
>                                 winning
>                                         margin, and that's why we need you
>                                 calling supporters and
>                                 asking
>                                         them to vote.
>
>                                         You can start calling whenever you
>                                 like, but*we really need
>                                 people
>                                         to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>
>                                         Can you sign up for a shift *today
>                                 from 4-6 p.m. ET
>
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>,
>                                         or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*?
>
>                                         We'll give you suggestions on what to
>                                 say, and a reporting tool
>                                 so
>                                         it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>
>                                         Thank you.
>
>                                         Truth,
>
>                                         Alan Grayson
>
>                                         P.S. -- If you don't have time today,
>                                 please sign up to make
>                                 calls
>                                         on another day between now and
>                                 Election Day, November 2. Every
>                                         voter you talk to will make a difference.
>
>                                         *Sign up now.
>
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>                                 <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*
>
>
>                                         Paid for and Authorized by the
>                                 Committee to Elect Alan Grayson
>
>                                         empowered by
>                                 Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
>                                         Web Bug from
>                                 http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>
>
>
>                                    
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