[Peace-discuss] [Peace] This list is for brief announcements only
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at illinois.edu
Fri Oct 22 14:43:57 CDT 2010
The government that we are responsible for - and the president whom many people
in the anti-war movement supported and worked for - is burning children half a
world away - and you're concerned about /negativity/?
Here's an announcement: if you want some real negativity, tune into /News from
Neptune /tonight at 7pm on cable channel 6. I do my best.
Or see the website at /<newsfromneptune.com>/. Or the FB page; search
/newsfromneptune/.
On 10/22/10 12:04 PM, Sarah Phillips wrote:
> I second that one, Katina. As a student who likes to attend peace events once
> in awhile when I have the time, I'd prefer to decide if I want to engage in
> discussions, or listen in on them. The negativity has become a little
> overwhelming on an event list-serv. Thanks all.
>
>
> Sarah Phillips
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Katina Bolos <katworm1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:katworm1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> If you want to have a discussion please take it elsewhere or at least
> please stop hitting reply all. It is not that we do not want to hear
> /what/ you have to say but rather that your negativity is not something
> most peaceful people appreciate. Thank you.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>
> Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?
>
> 'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the
> right to tell people what they do not want to hear'.
>
> Amen.
>
> On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
> Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on
> Peace Discuss?
>
> I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our
> killing people
> in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
>
> Carl, and all,
>
> Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
> It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
> who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
>
> If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the
> issues involved,
> please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
>
> On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
>
> Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook
> /<galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>/*
> wrote:
>
>
> From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
> To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
> Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>, "Peace-discuss"
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>
> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the
> Pentagon calls
> "The
> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US
> has killed a
> million
> people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State
> said that the
> tens
> of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a
> million under Bush;
> and
> apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush
> and his third
> (Obama)
> term.
>
> That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in
> SE Asia, but of
> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no
> way justified by
> being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in
> Vietnam.
>
> It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins,
> but it takes a
> tick
> up in the Carter administration when Carter (and
> Obama's) adviser
> Zbigniew
> Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into
> Afghanistan (before
> the
> Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of
> their own," as he
> said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation
> to date.
>
> If a Republican administration after 2012 brings
> Obama's AfPak war to
> an
> end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic
> war concluded by
> Republicans in as many generations. But that may not
> be likely. The
> news
> suggests that the Obama administration is looking to
> expand the war
> with
> an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't
> looking to
> abandon
> the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>
> Control of Mideast energy resources has been a
> cornerstone of US
> foreign
> policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says
> the war is to
> "stop
> terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he
> has to lie,
> because
> the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war
> in the Mideast is
> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military
> Force" of September
> 2001
> - which is directed against terrorism.
>
> Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great
> debate in
> America,
> "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was
> given by Herb
> Caen:
> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them
> home. The
> Russians
> did - and survived and prospered from the end of their
> war.
>
> Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being
> driven from
> office
> and (even more important) a revolt of the American
> conscript army to
> do it.
>
> Regards, CGE
>
> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>
> So I conclude from your statement that you don't
> consider either Iraq
> or
> Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so
> worked up about
> them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
> And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of
> racist who doesn't
> mind
> us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame.
> It's just that not
> all of
> us see the world in as simple terms as you seem
> to. Simple solutions
> are
> nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
> All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping
> the war, why don't
> you
> come up with something positive to do (as opposed
> to sniping from the
> sidelines) that might help get us closer to that
> goal? We'll all get
> behind you.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
> *To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
> </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:ggregg79 at yahoo.com>>
> *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>; Peace List
> <peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>
> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>;
> Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money
> Can't Vote
>
> You are aware, are you not, that America's major
> wars since WWII -
> called
> by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started
> by Democratic
> administrations and ended by Republican
> administrations. Since the
> current Democratic administration has greatly
> expanded the killing in
> AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to
> reverse their
> policies.
> Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>
> To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill
> some Asians,
> because
> they might do some good someplace else," is at
> best a counsel of
> despair,
> if not an outright criminal attitude.
> Particularly when it seems
> that
> they're doing precisely the wrong things
> elsewhere, too - not
> surprisingly, because they're working for the
> owners of the banks,
> the
> insurance companies, the oil and construction
> companies, etc. --CGE
>
>
> On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>
> Maybe because there are other important issues
> that she /does/ agree
> with him on. The only way you're going to
> find a candidate you're
> in
> 100% agreement with is to run for office. If
> support for the war is
> an
> absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not
> everybody sees it that
> way. But if you think the war will end sooner
> if more Republicans
> get
> elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>>
> *Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>
> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>>; Peace-discuss
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw:
> Money Can't Vote
>
> This guy supports the war. I can't see why
> anyone on an anti-war
> list
> would contribute to him.
>
>
> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>
> Another request for help...
> I love this guy!
> --Jenifer
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
> /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com
> <mailto:alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>>
> </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com
> <mailto:alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>>/*wrote:
>
>
> *CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>
>
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>
>
> *Make 10 calls now!
>
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*
>
> Dear Jenifer,
>
> This election is about the people
> standing against corporate
> special interests, which are trying to
> bury me with lying ads
> because they know I can’t be bought.
> But money can’t vote
> – people can.
>
> This week is the first week of Early
> Vote, which means people
> in
> Central Florida are voting right now.
>
> Getting our supporters to the polls
> now could make up our
> winning
> margin, and that's why we need you
> calling supporters and
> asking
> them to vote.
>
> You can start calling whenever you
> like, but*we really need
> people
> to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>
> Can you sign up for a shift *today
> from 4-6 p.m. ET
>
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>,
> or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*?
>
> We'll give you suggestions on what to
> say, and a reporting tool
> so
> it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Truth,
>
> Alan Grayson
>
> P.S. -- If you don't have time today,
> please sign up to make
> calls
> on another day between now and
> Election Day, November 2. Every
> voter you talk to will make a difference.
>
> *Sign up now.
>
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
> <http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>>*
>
>
> Paid for and Authorized by the
> Committee to Elect Alan Grayson
>
> empowered by
> Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
> Web Bug from
> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>
>
>
>
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