[Peace-discuss] Is there any question who's the war party?

[C. G. Estabrook]

Is it misinforming people to say what the Democrats actually do - rather than 
try to reassure people about what is presumably in their secret hearts?

Wouldn't you say it's misinforming people - to put no finer point on it - to 
continue to encourage the delusion that the Democrats are opposed to the US war 
in the Mideast - now the MENA War, I suppose - and are just waiting for a "clean 
vote" or a chance to give "a good indicator of where they stand"?

I know the Democrats have been doing that for years - Obama built a presidential 
campaign on it - but people are not fools and may actually see through pundits' 
mystifications. Meanwhile Obama continues to order killing and torture from 
Quantico to Kandahar.


On 4/6/11 11:59 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
> I know that you're not educable on this. I'm just trying to stop you
> from misinforming other people.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 11:55 AM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>  wrote:
>> Come on, Bob. Senate Democrats had a chance to vote against what everyone
>> admits was an unconstitutional act of war and chose instead to vote for it.
>> Just as they could have cut off funds for Bush's war (it only took 41 votes)
>> and chose not to do it.
>>
>> I'm sure when the Socialists voted for war credits in Germany in 1914, it "wasn't
>> good a indicator of where people stood." Maybe they were waiting for a
>> "clean" vote.
>>
>> On 4/6/11 11:45 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>> The analysis of the peace folks watching this in Washington is that
>>> this vote wasn't a good indicator of sentiment in the Senate. Senator
>>> Lugar, a Republican who has been arguably the most prominent
>>> Republican critic both of the war in Libya and the decision to launch
>>> it without Congressional authorization, voted with the 90 to table,
>>> not with the 10. The question on the floor was attaching language
>>> about war powers to a small business bill.
>>>
>>> I'm not against what Senator Paul did; it's more than anyone else has
>>> managed to do on the floor of either body so far. But this particular
>>> vote is not a good indicator of where people stand. Senator Webb, like
>>> Senator Lugar (though not as prominently) has been very critical.
>>>
>>> Hopefully, Paul or Lee or others will come back with something else
>>> that will allow a more clean vote ("clean" in the sense of not being
>>> entangled with other issues.)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 9:26 PM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>   wrote:
>>>> 10 GOP Senators Vote to Oppose Libya Intervention
>>>> Posted: 05 Apr 2011 03:29 PM PDT
>>>>
>>>> Senator Rand Paul’s resolution opposing President Obama’s use of force in
>>>> Libya gained the support of 10 Republican senators — and not a single
>>>> Democrat.
>>>>
>>>> The resolution was the same as a quote from President Obama when he was a
>>>> Senator and presidential candidate:
>>>>
>>>> “The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally
>>>> authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping
>>>> an
>>>> actual or imminent threat to the nation.”
>>>>
>>>> The resolution was defeated by a motion to table. The vote was 90-10.
>>>>
>>>> Republican Senators voting to oppose US intervention in Libya were:
>>>> Collins (R-ME), DeMint (R-SC), Ensign (R-NV), Johnson (R-WI), Lee (R-UT),
>>>> Moran (R-KS), Paul (R-KY), Sessions (R-AL), Sowe (R-ME), Toomey (R-PA)
>>>>
>>>> Where are the antiwar Democrats?
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>>>>
>>>
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>
>