[Peace-discuss] Teapartiers & the Left

Mon Apr 25 12:09:18 CDT 2011

Yes, but is it the good turtle soup, or is it merely the mock?

We should have learnt to be wary.

The point is to reverse the administration's policies.  I hope Mr. Johnson will 
contribute to that.

On 4/25/11 11:57 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:54 AM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>  wrote:
>> I should have thought that we'd had enough of candidates who appear to be
>> against the war - and garner votes on this basis - and then aren't.
> But you haven't produced any evidence that Gary Johnson fits this
> description. The fact that Raimondo doesn't like him proves zero.
>
>> The fact is that anti-war and anti-Wall Street objections to the incumbent
>> administration are coming from a variety of directions.
>>
>> That has two particular effects: (1) counterfeits, like Robert Kennedy's
>> candidacy during Vietnam (to avoid repeating recent examples); and (2)
>> frenzied divide-and-conquer efforts by  the incumbents.
>>
>> The task is to avoid these traps and make the broad and multifarious
>> opposition to the administration's policies effective.
>>
>>
>> On 4/25/11 9:59 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>> Even Raimondo, who clearly has a pike against Gary Johnson and wants
>>> to discredit him in favor of the "pure" Ron Paul whom Raimondo
>>> supports, concedes that Gary Johnson is against the war in
>>> Afghanistan, which is the central story at the moment. Obviously folks
>>> for whom Ron Paul's goldbug and anti-abortion views are central may
>>> not accept Gary Johnson as a "counterfeit" for Ron Paul; but I suspect
>>> that this is a small number among libertarian-leaning Republicans;
>>> after all, Ayn Rand supported abortion rights:
>>>
>>> "One method of destroying a concept is by diluting its meaning.
>>> Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving,
>>> the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right
>>> of young people to set the course of their own lives."
>>> - Ayn Rand, "A Last Survey — Part I", The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. IV, No. 2,
>>> 1975.
>>>
>>> P.S. Raimondo makes much of the fact that Gary Johnson has indicated
>>> openness to supporting "humanitarian interventions" in principle; but
>>> Raimondo neglects to inform us that Gary Johnson is against the
>>> military intervention in Libya.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:07 AM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>   wrote:
>>>> These views among Republicans obviously resemble those among teapartiers
>>>> (often the same people).
>>>>
>>>> But could Justin Raimondo be right in his view (characteristically
>>>> expressed) that Johnson is "a cheap knock-off" of Ron Paul?
>>>>
>>>> "...I doubt many will fall for the counterfeit ... It is all too clear to
>>>> me
>>>> what the Johnson campaign represents: the attempt by the so-called
>>>> 'cosmopolitan' (cosmotarian?) wing of our movement [i.e., libertarianism]
>>>> to
>>>> create 'the next Ron Paul' – and dump all that antiwar, anti-Federal
>>>> Reserve
>>>> 'kooky' stuff, which the Beltway libertarian organizations funded by the
>>>> so-called 'Kochtopus' look down their noses at..."
>>>>
>>>> <http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/04/21/gary-johnson-caveat-emptor/>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/25/11 8:23 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>>>> Meanwhile, according to the Washington Post: the majority of
>>>>> Republican voters want to raise taxes on the rich and the majority of
>>>>> Republican voters want to see a substantial withdrawal of combat
>>>>> troops from Afghanistan this summer; half of Republican voters say the
>>>>> war is not worth the cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Gary Johnson's candidacy for President prospers, these anti-war
>>>>> sentiments among Republican voters could get significantly more
>>>>> attention...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:02 AM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>> Poll: 70% Of Tea Partiers Oppose Cuts To Medicare, Medicaid
>>>>>> Jon Terbush | April 20, 2011, 3:05PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...In a McClatchy-Marist poll released this week, 70% of registered
>>>>>> voters
>>>>>> who identify with the Tea Party opposed making cuts to either Medicare
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> Medicaid -- the government-run health programs for the elderly and the
>>>>>> poor
>>>>>> -- to help reduce the nation's deficit. Meanwhile, only 28% of tea
>>>>>> partiers
>>>>>> said they'd be willing to cut spending on those two programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tea partiers were not alone in opposing Medicare and Medicaid cuts. An
>>>>>> overwhelming 80% of all respondents said they opposed such cuts, with a
>>>>>> majority of every demographic measured in the survey lining up against
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...The Tea Party has led the charge to slash government spending, but
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Marist poll suggests they're loathe to touch what amounts to about 20%
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the entire federal budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Marist poll was conducted April 10-14 among 1,084 registered voters
>>>>>> nationwide. It has a margin of error of 3.0%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-70-of-tea-partiers-oppose-cuts-to-medicare-medicaid.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Ryan Gets Booed By Constituents For Opposing Tax Hikes On Rich
>>>>>> Benjy Sarlin | April 20, 2011, 2:37PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), architect of the House GOP's budget, drew a
>>>>>> resounding chorus of boos at a town hall appearance in his district
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> touting the benefits of tax cuts for the wealthy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a video posted by ThinkProgress, an attendee at the event this week
>>>>>> told
>>>>>> Ryan that he believes the rich should pay higher taxes to help close
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> deficit and strengthen Social Security.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The middle class is disappearing right now," he said. "During this
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> prosperity, the top 1 percent was taking about 10 percent of the total
>>>>>> annual income, but yet today we are fighting to not let the tax breaks
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the wealthy expire?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan protested that "We do tax the top," before being drowned out by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> audience's jeers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Polls have shown increasing taxes on the wealthy enjoys strong public
>>>>>> support across the political spectrum despite near-universal opposition
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> GOP lawmakers ... Ryan's budget proposal ... cuts taxes for the rich
>>>>>> while
>>>>>> making major cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/paul-ryan-gets-booed-by-consituents-for-opposing-tax-hikes-on-rich-video.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>
>