[Peace-discuss] how about a Durbin letter to President Obama on new CIA chief and drone strike policy?

Sun Dec 2 19:31:36 UTC 2012

A worthy symbolic gesture, but Durbin is in Obama's pocket.

Not even Tim Johnson style threats of harm are going to work on Durbin.

On 12/03/12 3:17, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
> Agreed. I'm proposing that - in addition to individual letters - AWARE write as organization.  --CGE
>
> On Dec 2, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Robert Naiman<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>  wrote:
>
>    
>> Well, for now, how about we agree to disagree about this, and make
>> common cause on the idea that people should be contacting Durbin about
>> the drone strikes. Say whatever you want. What we can say with high
>> confidence is that if he doesn't hear from anyone, he is probably not
>> going to do anything.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Carl G. Estabrook
>> <galliher at illinois.edu>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Bob--
>>>
>>> I think Mort is right. How would you evaluate your letter if it were written in the circumstances of 50 years ago?
>>>
>>> "But here's the thing. There is no way to do anything about the Kennedy
>>> administration's carpet bombing of South Vietnam
>>> that will have practical effect without moving mainstream
>>> institutions. And there is no way to move mainstream institutions
>>> without making plausible asks. And 'stop all the bombing' is not
>>> a plausible ask of a Senator right now. There is an important
>>> difference between what makes sense to say in a demonstration on the
>>> street and what makes sense to say in a conversation with a Senator.
>>>
>>> "Stopping all the bombing that blatantly violates international law
>>> would stop the overwhelming majority of strikes. That is a plausible
>>> ask. It would save a lot of lives. Why not go after that first? If 95%
>>> of violence is slam-dunk not justified, and 5% is arguably borderline,
>>> why not go after the 95% first, and worry about the 5% later?"
>>>
>>> The point is that a demand to "stop all the illegal bombing in Vietnam"
>>> would be (a) a call to stop all of Kennedy's bombing of Vietnam
>>> or (b) a (false) assertion that some of it was legal.
>>>
>>> The situation seems the same today.  --CGE
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Robert Naiman<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>  wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> A worthy sentiment.
>>>>
>>>> But here's the thing. There is no way to do anything about the drone
>>>> strikes that will have practical effect without moving mainstream
>>>> institutions. And there is no way to move mainstream institutions
>>>> without making plausible asks. And "stop all the drone strikes" is not
>>>> a plausible ask of a Senator right now. There is an important
>>>> difference between what makes sense to say in a demonstration on the
>>>> street and what makes sense to say in a conversation with a Senator.
>>>>
>>>> Stopping all drone strikes that blatantly violate international law
>>>> would stop the overwhelming majority of strikes. That is a plausible
>>>> ask. It would save a lot of lives. Why not go after that first? If 95%
>>>> of violence is slam-dunk not justified, and 5% is arguably borderline,
>>>> why not go after the 95% first, and worry about the 5% later?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Brussel, Morton K<brussel at illinois.edu>  wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> I don't want a "reform"; I want it stopped!
>>>>>
>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 1, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> What do you think of the idea of Senator Durbin sending a letter to
>>>>>> President Obama ahead of his announcement of his pick to head the CIA,
>>>>>> saying this is an opportunity for a fundamental reform of the drone
>>>>>> strike policy; in particular, getting the CIA out of drone strikes (a
>>>>>> proposal which has been endorsed by the Washington Post editorial
>>>>>> board, Human Rights Watch, and the 9/11 Commission.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That could be the marquee demand for a list of reforms of drone strike
>>>>>> policy that Senator Durbin would like to see, knocking down the most
>>>>>> egregious aspects of current policy, such as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - legal justification not disclosed
>>>>>> - civilian victims not compensated
>>>>>> - civilian harm not publicly assessed
>>>>>> - secondary strikes/attacks on rescuers
>>>>>> - signature strikes whose targeting criteria violate international law
>>>>>> on their face
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's some relevant ink:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama’s pick for CIA could affect drone program
>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obamas-pick-for-cia-could-affect-drone-program/2012/11/24/4dc58dc2-3349-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> US: Transfer CIA Drone Strikes to Military
>>>>>> Ensure Intelligence Agency Abides by International Law
>>>>>> APRIL 20, 2012
>>>>>> http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/04/20/us-transfer-cia-drone-strikes-military
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pulling the U.S. drone war out of the shadows
>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/us-drone-war-demands-accountability/2012/11/01/56627964-2380-11e2-8448-81b1ce7d6978_story.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>              
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>> Policy Director
>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>          
>>>        
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>      
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