[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] sleepwalking into the drone age - "I Met a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed Him"
C. G. Estabrook
carl at newsfromneptune.com
Mon Jun 18 19:18:40 UTC 2012
Eleanor--
How about, "Hey, hey, LBJ! / How many kids did you kill today?" Would
you consider that "unproductive ... vitriolic, violent, and
inflammatory language"?
>
In fact, that chant - from 45 years ago - brought home to many
Americans what their soldiers were doing in Vietnam; chants and
demonstrations like that had a lot to do with turning Americans
against that war.
By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the Vietnam war as
"fundamentally wrong and immoral," not "a mistake," largely as a
result of the impact of student protest.
Today, when two-thirds of the public say we should withdraw out troops
from the Mideast - but two-thirds of the Congress think we should
continue to kill people there - we need a way to break through the
fact that the media are not covering Obama's expansion of the wars in
Asia and Africa. We need to let people know about the child-murders
he's committing in their name.
You cannot mean to equate "violent ... vocabulary" with killing kids.
The "violent vocabulary" is necessary to describe what our government
is doing, particularly when so many soi-disant progressives are
ignoring - or, worse, justifying what Obama is doing (with the
outlandish and irrelevant argument "Romney would do the same thing":
whoever is president must be prevented from committing these crimes).
To that end, AWARE will be distributing the article headlined
"Sleepwalking, etc." at coming demonstrations. (For the full text, see
the AWARE Facebook page.) --CGE
On Jun 18, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Charles Evans wrote:
> It is really unproductive to the Occupy/Peace movement to use
> vitriolic, violent and inflammatory language to advance the cause of
> nonviolence and create a world in which all people understand each
> others' cultures and acknowledge that we are all dependent on each
> other, and because of that we see each individual as having value.
> The best way to reach that goal is to become active and engaged in
> groups where people work together on common causes such as
> environmental issues, nonviolent peace groups, etc. Instead of
> waving banners that are often violent sounding go to Africa or
> Palestine and work on bringing people together. When you create
> movements that are violent in your vocabulary you are becoming the
> very people or actions you despise. I am speaking directly to your
> quotation "I met......". Please forward this to others who are
> engaged in this discussion.--- Eleanor Evans
>
> --- On Sun, 6/17/12, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>
> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] sleepwalking into the drone
> age - "I Met a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed Him"
> To: s.hansen at comcast.net
> Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "Stuart Levy" <salevy at illinois.edu
> >, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Sunday, June 17, 2012, 1:51 PM
>
> Why do you put 'the government' in quotation marks?
>
> The only reason to do demonstrations like this is to build pressure
> against the government's crimes, as was done in Vietnam and the
> civil rights movement.
>
> Obama & the Democrats know that perfectly well - he discussed the
> matter in "The Audacity of Hope" - and they've worked hard to co-opt
> the antiwar movement.
>
> That was a principal reason for his election in 2008.
>
> We can't suggest that that co-option continues to work.
>
> Obama can of course stop killing kids overnight, just by ceasing the
> drone strikes. He can also stop shiping arms to Syria and 'Special
> Operations' murderers to more than 100 countries around the world.
> And he can withdraw troops from Afghanistan as easily as he sent
> them in.
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2012, at 7:30 AM, <s.hansen at comcast.net> <s.hansen at comcast.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Yes, I think this could possibly, eventually, put pressure on 'the
>> government'. After all, kids grow up, and faster than we want
>> sometimes. The current mess was thirty or forty years in the
>> making. If we can straighten it out, it's not going to happen
>> overnight. I think if I were a parent, I would want to teach my
>> precious ones by example how to get out there and exercise their
>> right to free, non-violent speech. They need to learn to find
>> their own voice and express their feelings about these events, and
>> in the end it will be their struggle. This is going to be a small
>> town event. I really don't think anyone in 'the government' that
>> counts will even be watching this, and this could be an opportunity
>> to help us teach them what a person does when they disagree with
>> their government. That the constitution and all says that they
>> have a right to do this. And, if even if the 'government' that
>> counted was actually watching the CU Fourth of July Parade, why
>> would they be reassured by an army of protesters in training. Power
>> to the Kids! They are going to need it.
>> Solidarity
>> Sandra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> To: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "s hansen" <s.hansen at comcast.net>, "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>> >, "Stuart Levy" <salevy at illinois.edu>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> >
>> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:17:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] sleepwalking into the drone
>> age - "I Met a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed Him"
>>
>> Could this possibly contribute to putting pressure on our government
>> to cease its crimes?
>>
>> Or would it just reassure them that they can continue as they are,
>> with nothing to fear form the anti-war movement?
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:33 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>
>> > We'll get lots more traction w/ a kinder gentler entry. And if
>> we're
>> > gonna ask kids, it's even more important -- and less upsetting to
>> > them -- to approach it from the positive side of things (yeah, hard
>> > for some on this list to do that, when they sooooooo prefer, even
>> > relish the negative stuff). Q: what can we do to make things
>> > peaceful? Answers will be general (and funny, too at times): be
>> > nice; don't fight; tell people you like them; help them, share,
>> > don't be a bully... If anybody has access to a ready made group, it
>> > could be a mini project. Otherwise, AWARE et al could poll kids
>> at e
>> > g the Farmers' Market (w/ parents permission, of course) -- jot
>> down
>> > the answers, along w/ kids' names, last initial, home town... and
>> > later make the signs (somebody already said these need to be brief
>> > and readable).
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 6/16/12, s.hansen at comcast.net <s.hansen at comcast.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: s.hansen at comcast.net <s.hansen at comcast.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] sleepwalking into the drone
>> > age - "I Met a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed Him"
>> > To: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> > Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "Jenifer
>> > Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> > >, "Stuart Levy" <salevy at illinois.edu>
>> > Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 12:43 PM
>> >
>> > #yiv332638414 p {margin:0;}
>> > Hey everyone--just a thought. Maybe you should get some ideas from
>> > some kids about what they think about war and what kind of
>> statement
>> > they would like to make in a parade about something like war and
>> > all. I know they are all exposed to everything on the news about
>> > our troubled times, and maybe they should give us some input on
>> what
>> > adults should be doing about these things. What kind of float
>> would
>> > they like to make, to make the point of 'Peace'. I know when I was
>> > 8,9,10 years old, I was thinking about these things, and worrying
>> > about atomic bombs and such. No one every asked me about my
>> worries
>> > or for my op-pinion for that matter. Surely there are some 8,9,10
>> > yearolds thinking about these things. Epically in families that
>> are
>> > politically active. Maybe adults are over thinking things a little
>> > too much. Just a thought. Never had kids, but some times they
>> give
>> > us the best, unfiltered by baggage, ideas. After all, 4th of July
>> > Parades are for kids, or the kid in all of us. I think is is a
>> > great idea to have kids in Parade, how bout give them a voice in
>> > what they would want to do. They might be able to say it simpler
>> > than us 'grtown-ups'. We don't want it to be a downer do we?
>> Wish I
>> > had some kids around to ask, but I don't have any kids or grand
>> kids
>> > either for that matter. Any way just a thought. Has any one ask an
>> > actual kid what they think?
>> >
>> > Sandra
>> >
>> > From: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To: "Stuart Levy" <salevy at illinois.edu>
>> > Cc: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "Jenifer
>> > Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> > >
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:06:13 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] sleepwalking into the drone
>> > age - "I Met a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed
>> Him"
>> >
>> > "To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how
>> > much pressure they're under from the public." - Noam Chomsky
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jun 16, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>> >
>> > > The article's "sleepwalkers" aren't our leaders, but the American
>> > > people - Clive Smith writes:
>> > >
>> > > The dearth of US domestic criticism is astounding. The last
>> time a
>> > > president indulged in an illegal bombing campaign in the
>> sovereign
>> > > territory of allies (Richard Nixon in 1969, in Cambodia and
>> Laos),
>> > > the policy nearly got included in the articles of impeachment. We
>> > > should remember that history, as the Vietnamese capitalised on
>> the
>> > > backlash, helping to impose the genocidal Khmer Rouge on
>> Cambodia,
>> > > and a single-party regime that endures 40 years later in Laos.
>> > >
>> > > Ultimately, Mitt Romney faces a dilemma: what must a Republican
>> > > candidate do to outflank the extremism of his Democratic
>> opponent?
>> > > The rest of us must be concerned as well: we are sleepwalking
>> into
>> > > the Drone Age, and few people are debating the dire consequences.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 6/16/12 1:20 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> The problem with that is that it suggests "War" killed the kid.
>> > >>
>> > >> Obama killed him. He didn't have to.
>> > >>
>> > >> And he isn't "sleepwalking." He's quite conscious.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Jun 15, 2012, at 11:24 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> A banner w/ the famous quote -- WAR IS NOT GOOD FOR CHILDREN
>> AND
>> > >>> OTHER LIVING THINGS -- would cover most of the suggestions so
>> far
>> > >>> for the 4th of July Parade... including this sad sad drone
>> poster.
>> > >>> A cemetery full of crosses would get the idea across.
>> > >>> I didn't like the idea of dressing kids in camouflage -- looks
>> > >>> like we're promoting child soldiers, when actually we aren't
>> > >>> promoting ANY soldiers, right?? Not bloody stuff or gory
>> > >>> pictures, either -- this is a family event, and we'll get
>> farther
>> > >>> if we emphasize the peace- rather than the war aspects. Just my
>> > 2c.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --- On Thu, 6/14/12, Stuart Levy <salevy at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> From: Stuart Levy <salevy at illinois.edu>
>> > >>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] sleepwalking into the drone age - "I
>> Met
>> > >>> a 16-Year-Old Kid. 3 Days Later Obama Killed Him"
>> > >>> To: "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> Cc: "Stuart Levy" <salevy at illinois.edu>
>> > >>> Date: Thursday, June 14, 2012, 7:17 AM
>> > >>>
>> > >>> This article could move a lot of people, I think, who are
>> inclined
>> > >>> to believe the Administration's line about killing only truly
>> > >>> deserving militants with our drone strikes. We should hand it
>> > >>> out at the Market, at least.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> http://www.alternet.org/story/155723/i_met_a_16-year-old_kid._3_days_later_obama_killed_him?page=entire
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> And I'd really like to include something about drones in the
>> 4th
>> > >>> of July parade.
>> > >>> The picture below is from the AFSC exhibit
>> > >>> "Windows and Mirrors / Reflections on the War in
>> Afghanistan"
>> > >>> http://www.windowsandmirrors.org/
>> > >>> which was on display in Chicago during the anti-NATO
>> conference -
>> > >>> one of about
>> > >>> thirty large pieces. Perhaps we could bring the exhibit here
>> --
>> > >>> maybe in the fall?
>> > >>> But I wonder if we could get permission to reproduce this stark
>> > >>> image as a parade poster.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> <efgjhgag.png>
>> >
>>
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>
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