[Peace-discuss] What I Learned On This List

[David Green]

"But Holocaust denial really did get a foothold among the anti-Zionist left in the UK in 2005 or so"
 
I doubt if this accurately describes anything; but if it does, I wonder how many dead children resulted from it.
 
In CU, we've apparently narrowly averted a cult of Holocaut denial on the left gaining a "foothold." Who knows the casualties that might have resulted?


>________________________________
> From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>To: Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> 
>Cc: "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 2:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] What I Learned On This List
>  
>Stuart, thank you for a rational and thoughtful reply! I was losing hope of getting one.
>
>I also do not feel threatened by just one guy on the fringe. But Holocaust denial really did get a foothold among the anti-Zionist left in the UK in 2005 or so, and it is only this year -- and not without some serious internal struggle -- that the Palestine solidarity movement there was able to unambiguously disassociate itself from it. It really was a problem, not a phantom. *That* is what got me concerned when I first saw it pop its head up in CU -- was there going to be an unambiguous denunciation right up front, or was it going to take almost a decade, like it did in the UK?
>
>Thanks for actually replying, rather than just flinging around caricatures. 
>
>@%<
>
>On Nov 25, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OK David Gehrig,
>> 
>> Here is my feeling about holocaust denial in the context of recent discussions on OccupyCU.
>> 
>> I do not feel threatened by a known crank who expresses it in a forum that doesn't represent me.   It just seems too outlandish to take seriously - like an Obama birther fanatic, or an evil version of a flat earther.
>> 
>> I feel *much more* threatened by a full-throated supporter of Obama's neoliberal economic policies, or of Amnesty International's express support of NATO occupation in Afghanistan (!), or by someone who dismisses human influence on climate change.   Those points of view seem much more dangerously seductive.   I don't know anyone who'd be seduced by holocaust denial.
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/24/12 11:18 AM, David Gehrig wrote:
>>> How about a recognition that Holocaust denial isn't a pro- or anti-Zionist issue, but an anti-racist issue? And that counseling that it should be ignored when it appears locally -- and again, remember, on the left -- in the name of anti-Zionism is *not* an act of anti-racism but of political confusion?
>>> 
>>> @%<
>>> 
>>> On Nov 24, 2012, at 10:48 AM, "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> O.K. Mr. Gehrig,
>>>> 
>>>> As I stated in my previous e-mail,
>>>> the C-U Occupy Group was approached by ONE individual who made a website proposal to our group and becuase of his " Holocaust Revisionism " ( as he called it ) opinions and articles on his website, that questioned the number of Jewish people murdered by the Nazis, we told him we were not interested becuase we disagreed with his opinions and did not want to be assosiated with his website. period !
>>>> 
>>>> What more is there to do or discuss ?
>>>> 
>>>> What do you suggest should be done ?
>>>> 
>>>> David Johnson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gehrig" <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>>>> To: <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
>>>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] What I Learned On This List
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Ah well, I tried. And it's been enlightening.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here’s what I’ve learned. When encountering Holocaust denial in one's
>>>>> own community for the first time -- and encountering it on the left
>>>>> not the right -- the proper response, according to replies from the
>>>>> list of the self-proclaimed anti-racism organization, is to do the
>>>>> following "anti-racist" things:
>>>>> 
>>>>> (a) begin with a fusillade of gratuitous and off-topic insults aimed
>>>>> at anyone, you know, actually bothered by Holocaust denial
>>>>> 
>>>>> (b) immediately change the subject to, say, the JFK assassination
>>>>> 
>>>>> (c) immediately change the subject to, say, Norman Finkelstein
>>>>> 
>>>>> (d) immediately change the subject to, say, South Africa
>>>>> 
>>>>> (e) immediately change the subject to, say, 9/11 trooferdom
>>>>> 
>>>>> (f) immediately change the subject to, say, Israel
>>>>> 
>>>>> (g) immediately change the subject to any other damn thing under the
>>>>> sun but (h) smother any on-topic discussion of that Holocaust denial
>>>>> as an instance of racism in our community and (i) tell the one who is
>>>>> offended by the racism that *he’s* the bad guy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is anti-racism?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I believe there are many good people on this list. Yet the replies I
>>>>> got were off-topic spiraling whatsits from David up-is-down Green and
>>>>> a pair of Johnsons. If firemen fought fires the way these guys fight
>>>>> antisemitism, CU would be ashes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> @%<
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