[Peace-discuss] Juan Cole - Ten myths about the Israeli attack on Gaza
"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"
ewj at pigsqq.org
Wed Nov 28 19:57:30 UTC 2012
Indeed my understanding of "prophet" in the biblical context is that of
a "forth-teller" more than the popular idea of "foreteller".
The example of Saul as navi (rendered "prophet" in English) is
clearly that of forth-teller in the question "Is Saul among the
prophets?". It is also un-intellectual in the case of Saul as
his fleshly intellect was selfish and turned against the order of YHWH,
but when in contact with the Holy Spirit that was upon the
prophets (navi) he did prophesy (nava), meaning to tell forth
under divine inspiration. "... the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee,
and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man."
This meaning of prophesy is also found in the NT, for example,
in Luke 1 where Zacharias is speaking, and in Acts 19 and 1 Cor 12-14.
Where I would depart from what Chomsky is saying here is not about
the matter of the navi being a forth-teller, but the interpretation that
it is purely intellect in operation. He is absolutely spot on about
the true prophets being hated and the false prophets being accepted.
What makes King (MLK) and the navi unique is that they spoke under
divine inspiration not just as the result of intellectual activity.
The navi gets an inspired insight into the situation that does not come
from intellect per se. One could get to the same conclusion by intellectual
activity, but so often the facts are so buried in lies and misinfo that
a matter of mere intellectual derivation is not readily applicable.
The navi gets a revelation of the truth that cuts through all of the
bs and packaging, a short-cut that is more than just intellect.
Of course those who spent so much time setting up the facade of carefully
placed lies and spindoctoring are going to be unhappy to see it all
cut down and ignored.
On 11/29/12 0:49, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
> The commonplace from two centuries of critical biblical studies is that
>
> prophet = foreteller
> navi = forth-teller.
>
> Prophets are common in ancient religions, but the role of navi is
> unique to ancient Israel, because Israel begins in the rejection of
> religion(s). (With apologies,
> <http://test.counterpunch.org/2005/03/29/the-subversive-commandments/>.)
>
> Prophecy in the sense of the Hebrew bible is central to the traditions
> that descend from ancient Israel, Christianity and Islam.
>
> The gods of the nations are worshipped via cult (religious ritual) but
> YHWH is pictured in the Hebrew bible as (a) not a god, and (b)
> demanding a just society as his/her proper worship. (Not being a god,
> YHWH is not part of a sexual pair, as gods typically are.)
>
> Nevi'im understand their task as calling Israel back to the YHWH's
> demand for justice (described as a covenant), when the people of
> Israel fail to establish it. Finally, in the latest strata of the OT,
> the ability of Israel to establish justice is despaired of, and the
> nevi'im look for a decisive intervention of YHWH (apocalypse) to
> reverse the unjust order of the world (primarily a political term in
> both the OT & NT) and establish the reign of justice/kingdom of God.
>
> The job of the navi is to "tell forth" YHWH's demand for justice and
> denounce Israel's failure to fulfill it; the navi foretells the future
> only in that he announces that there will be deleterious results from
> Israel's injustice.
>
> Chomsky gives (not surprisingly) a description of nevi'im at once
> traditional and quite accurate according to modern scholarship (just
> as it departs from the popular prophet = foreteller equation):
>
> "...They were giving geopolitical analysis, arguing that the acts of
> the rulers were going to destroy society. And they condemned the acts
> of evil kings. They called for justice and mercy to orphans and widows
> and so on ... And the nivi’im were treated the way dissident
> intellectuals always are. They weren’t praised. They weren’t honored.
> They were imprisoned like Jeremiah. They were driven into the desert.
> They were hated.
>
> "Now at the time, there were intellectuals, 'prophets,' who were very
> well treated. They were the flatterers of the court. Centuries later,
> they were called 'false prophets.'
>
> "People who criticize power in the Jewish community are regarded the
> way Ahab treated Elijah: You’re a traitor. You’ve got to serve power.
> You can’t argue that the policies that Israel is following are going
> to lead to its destruction, which I thought then and still do."
>
> MLK, in his progression from anti-discrimination to anti-war and
> anti-capitalsm, fits the model of the forth-teller - as of course does
> Chomsky himself.
>
> --CGE
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2012, at 8:50 AM, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" <ewj at pigsqq.org
> <mailto:ewj at pigsqq.org>> wrote:
>
>> I have tonnes of respect for Chomsky.
>>
>> I had read this before including the part about "navi" ( איבנ)
>> being poorly translated as "prophet".
>>
>> It doesn't seem to be all that difficult to me. To prophesy is nava אבנ
>> and one who speaks under divine inspiration is איבנ navi.
>>
>> I dont really think it is the same thing as intellect but it's
>> not anti-intellectual exactly. It's speaking under divine influence
>> directly or from revelation knowledge. There are a few modern day
>> prophets around today (many evangelicals deny this vehemently).
>>
>> One well-known example most would agree about would be MLK jr.
>>
>> King Saul hung out with the prophets navi'im and got close enough to
>> the influence of the divine spirit that he prophesied nava too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/28/12 11:58, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>> Nov. 12, 2010:
>>> <http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/50260/qa-noam-chomsky>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Brussel, Morton K"
>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the date of the Chomsky quotes?
>>>>
>>>> --mkb
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It would be interesting to see what the Israeli government would
>>>>> do if the US were to withdraw military, economic, ideological, and
>>>>> diplomatic support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps they'd be forced to make some regional arrangement with
>>>>> their neighbors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chomsky has noted that their "threat to 'go crazy' ('nishtagea') –
>>>>> that is, launch a tough response – is deeply rooted, stretching
>>>>> back to the Labor governments of the 1950s, along with the
>>>>> related 'Samson Complex': 'If crossed, we will bring down the
>>>>> Temple walls around us.'"
>>>>>
>>>>> But the government that we're responsible for is in Washington,
>>>>> and that's the one we and other US citizens can influence
>>>>> directly, as we did during Vietnam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chomsky said recently - correctly, it seems to me -
>>>>>
>>>>> "Part of American national culture is that we don’t look at
>>>>> ourselves. In fact if you look at what I write about Israel, it’s
>>>>> overwhelmingly about the United States. It’s about U.S. support
>>>>> for the Israelis, not what Israel does. What Israel does is not
>>>>> nice, but no state is nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> "But it’s quite different for us. We don’t support killings in the
>>>>> eastern Congo. Or Chinese repression of dissidents. But
>>>>> we’re completely responsible for what Israel does. Israel isn’t
>>>>> entirely an American satellite, but pretty close to it. They
>>>>> couldn’t do what they’re doing if it weren’t for the decisive
>>>>> support of the United States...
>>>>>
>>>>> "The United States destroyed Iraq. Of course that should be
>>>>> harshly condemned. In fact I do it much more than I talk about
>>>>> Israel. In the case of the Vietnam war, we basically
>>>>> destroyed three countries. They’ll never recover. Same with
>>>>> Nicaragua. Same with Cuba. Go on and on. Same with Chile. That’s
>>>>> what we ought to be concentrating on. Israel happens to be
>>>>> a subcase of a larger problem."
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the "larger problem" that AWARE should primarily be concerned
>>>>> with. It certainly shouldn't accept the administration's
>>>>> invitation to look away from what the US has done and is doing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:42 PM, "Brussel, Morton K"
>>>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Israeli designs on a "Greater Israel" do not depend on the
>>>>>> U.S.. That is a major ingredient behind Israeli aggression and
>>>>>> repression of the Palestinians. Israel, with its Zionist
>>>>>> ideology, will continue its repression. The U.S. is not likely to
>>>>>> interfere, perhaps unable to interfere, even if it reduces its
>>>>>> support. Yes, you are deflecting criticism of Israeli actions by
>>>>>> this one-sided position. As I've stated, both issues need to be
>>>>>> emphasized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's hardly excusing Israeli actions/aggression to point out
>>>>>>> that those crimes would be impossible without US support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And that's what Americans need to know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Israeli crimes are different in that regard from, say, crimes by
>>>>>>> China, Russia, or France.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:41 PM, "Brussel, Morton K"
>>>>>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you excusing Israeli actions/aggression? Should not U.S.
>>>>>>>> citizens be so informed? I find this reply hollow.
>>>>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:23 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We're writing a flyer for US - not Israeli - citizens.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The fundamental issue is quite simple: Every U.S. taxpayer is
>>>>>>>>> responsible for Israeli crimes. They can’t carry them out
>>>>>>>>> without the decisive military, economic, ideological, and
>>>>>>>>> diplomatic support of the United States"
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.zcommunications.org/q-and-a-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky>.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 4:13 PM, "Brussel, Morton K"
>>>>>>>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is obvious is that Carl's preferences lie with Ron
>>>>>>>>>> Paul's piece, which exclusively emphasizes U.S.
>>>>>>>>>> responsibility/culpability. Cole's piece exclusively
>>>>>>>>>> emphasizes Israel's responsibility/culpability.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Both should be emphasized.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 3:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If we're looking for a primer on Israel/Gaza, I almost think
>>>>>>>>>>> this would be better:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/27/how-to-end-the-gaza-tragedy/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Stuart Levy
>>>>>>>>>>> <stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At AWARE on Sunday we talked about having a flyer for this
>>>>>>>>>>>> Saturday's demonstration which talked about Israel/Palestine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carl had found a good one from Max Ajl, but here's another,
>>>>>>>>>>>> from Juan Cole on 11/17
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which may be a better introduction to people who haven't
>>>>>>>>>>>> been paying close attention to the subject. (See the
>>>>>>>>>>>> original article too - there's an interesting map
>>>>>>>>>>>> summarizing Palestinian refugee migrations.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on Gaza*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Posted on 11/17/2012 by Juan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Israeli hawks represent themselves as engaged in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ‘peace process’ with the Palestinians in which Hamas
>>>>>>>>>>>> refuses to join. In fact, Israel has refused to cease
>>>>>>>>>>>> colonizing and stealing Palestinian land long enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>> engage in fruitful negotiations with them. Tel Aviv
>>>>>>>>>>>> routinely announces new, unilateral house-building on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian West Bank
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/us-palestinians-israel-settlements-idUSBRE8A50I820121106?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews>.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no peace process. It is an Israeli and American
>>>>>>>>>>>> sham. Talking about a peace process is giving cover to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israeli nationalists who are determined to grab everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Palestinians have and reduce them to penniless refugees
>>>>>>>>>>>> (again).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Actions such as the assault on Gaza can achieve no
>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine long-term strategic purpose. They are being
>>>>>>>>>>>> launched to ensure that Jewish-Israelis are the first to
>>>>>>>>>>>> exploit key resources. Rattling sabers at the Palestinians
>>>>>>>>>>>> creates a pretext for further land-grabs and colonies on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian land. That is, the military action against the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people of Gaza is a diversion tactic; the real goal is
>>>>>>>>>>>> Greater Israel, an assertion of Israeli sovereignty
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> over all the territory once held by the British Mandate of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Israeli hawks represent their war of aggression as in
>>>>>>>>>>>> ‘self-defense.’ But the UK Israeli chief rabbi admitted on
>>>>>>>>>>>> camera that that the Gaza attack actually ‘had something to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do with Iran.’
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/16/bbc-apologises-chief-rabbi-jonathan-sacks-gaza>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Israeli hawks demonize the Palestinians of Gaza as “bad
>>>>>>>>>>>> neighbors” who don’t accept Israel. But 40% of the people
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Gaza are refugees, mostly living in refugee camps, from
>>>>>>>>>>>> families in pre-1948 Palestine that had lived there for
>>>>>>>>>>>> millennia.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They were expelled from what is now Israel in the 1948
>>>>>>>>>>>> Zionist ethnic cleansing campaign
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://suite101.com/article/gaza-refugee-camps-1948-present-a211374>.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israelis are now living in their homes and farming their
>>>>>>>>>>>> land, and they were never paid any reparations for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> crimes done to them. [pdf] “Israel’s failure to provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> reparations to Palestinian refugees over the past six
>>>>>>>>>>>> decades is in blatant violation of international law.”
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR26/FMR2624.pdf> Israel
>>>>>>>>>>>> does not accept Palestine’s right to exist, even though it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is constantly demanding that everyone, including the
>>>>>>>>>>>> displaced and occupied Palestinians, recognize Israel’s
>>>>>>>>>>>> right to exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Israeli hawks and their American clones depict Gaza as a
>>>>>>>>>>>> foreign, hostile state with which Israel is at war. In
>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, the Gaza strip is a small territory of 1.7 million
>>>>>>>>>>>> people militarily occupied by Israel
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CG8QFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenaccess.leidenuniv.nl%2Fbitstream%2F1887%2F13159%2F2%2FWhat%2BConstitutes%2BOccupation.pdf&ei=KDenUNOoMM6EygHbwYHYAQ&usg=AFQjCNFEJ_8IvIn6alResmt0iVO6Q-hFrg&sig2=IaQzbH1IV5V3KlnaR9F5Jw&cad=rja>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (something in which the UN and other international bodies
>>>>>>>>>>>> concur). Israelis do not allow it to have a port or
>>>>>>>>>>>> airport, nor to export most of what it produces.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians cannot work about a third of its land, which
>>>>>>>>>>>> is reserved by Israel as a security buffer. As an occupied
>>>>>>>>>>>> territory, it is covered by the Hague Regulations of 1907
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 on the treatment
>>>>>>>>>>>> of occupied populations by their military occupier.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Indiscriminate bombing of occupied territories by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> occupier is clearly illegal in international law.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Israeli hawks see themselves as innocent victims of
>>>>>>>>>>>> bewildering Palestinian rage from Gaza. But Israel not only
>>>>>>>>>>>> has kept Palestinians of Gaza in the world’s largest
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdoor penitentiary, they have them under an illegal
>>>>>>>>>>>> blockade
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.juancole.com/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that for some years aimed at limiting their nutrition
>>>>>>>>>>>> without altogether starving them to death. I wrote earlier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> “The food blockade had real effects. About ten percent of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian children in Gaza under 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/israels-blockade-gaza-puts-palestinian-childrens-health-risk-report-702821>
>>>>>>>>>>>> have had their growth stunted by malnutrition. A recent
>>>>>>>>>>>> report [pdf] by Save the Children and Medical Aid for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians found that
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.map-uk.org/files/1052_gaza_health_report_web_version.pdf>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> in addition, anemia is widespread, affecting over
>>>>>>>>>>>> two-thirds of infants, 58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> over a third of pregnant mothers. “
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If any foreign power surrounded Israel, destroyed Haifa
>>>>>>>>>>>> port and Tel Aviv airport, and prevented Israeli exports
>>>>>>>>>>>> from being exported, what do you think Israelis would do?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, that’s right, it is rude to see both Palestinians and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israelis as equal human beings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Israeli hawks demonize the Palestinian residents of Gaza
>>>>>>>>>>>> as followers of Hamas, a party-militia of the Muslim
>>>>>>>>>>>> religious right. But half of Palestinians in Gaza are
>>>>>>>>>>>> minors, who never voted for Hamas and cannot be held
>>>>>>>>>>>> collectively responsible for that party.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Israeli hawks justify their aggression on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians on grounds of self-defense. But Israel is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> country of 7.5 million people with tanks, armored vehicles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> artillery, helicopter gunships and F-16s and F-18s, plus
>>>>>>>>>>>> 400 nuclear warheads. Gaza is a small occupied territory of
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.7 million which has no heavy weaponry, just some old guns
>>>>>>>>>>>> and some largely ineffectual rockets. (Israelis cite
>>>>>>>>>>>> hundreds of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza in 2012;
>>>>>>>>>>>> but until Israel’s recent attack they had killed not a
>>>>>>>>>>>> single Israeli, though they did wound a few last March when
>>>>>>>>>>>> fighting between Palestinians and Israelis escalated.) Gaza
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a threat to Israel the way the Transkei Bantustan was a
>>>>>>>>>>>> threat to Apartheid South Africa. As for genuine
>>>>>>>>>>>> asymmetrical threats from Gaza to Israel, they could be
>>>>>>>>>>>> dealt with by giving the Palestinians a state and ceasing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the blockade imposed on them, or in the worst case scenario
>>>>>>>>>>>> counter-terrorism targeted at terrorists rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> indiscriminate bombing campaigns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Israeli hawks maintain that they were provoked into the
>>>>>>>>>>>> attack. But actually Ahmad Jabari, the Hamas leader the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israelis assassinated earlier this week, had been engaged
>>>>>>>>>>>> in talks with the Israelis about a truce
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-peace-activist-hamas-leader-jabari-killed-amid-talks-on-long-term-truce.premium-1.478085>.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Assassinations achieved by the ruse of openness to peace
>>>>>>>>>>>> talks are guarantees of no further peace talks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Although most American media is a cheering section for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Likud Party, in fact the world is increasingly done out
>>>>>>>>>>>> with Israel’s aggressiveness
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Boycotts and sanctions will likely grow over time, leaving
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israeli hawks with a deficit…
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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