[Peace-discuss] [Peace] [OccupyCU] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?

Sat Sep 1 21:36:39 UTC 2012

Sorry, clarifying my position: Yes, continue war/drone protests as usual -- both candidates are on record for thoseDefer whistle-blower protests until after the election -- nothing from the Romney camp re these (surely same as- or worse than Dems), plus there were no protests at Repub convention for those. Already expecting huge protests at Dem Conven compared w/ Repubs. ass-backwards thinking, imho.
--- On Sat, 9/1/12, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
To: "C. G. Estabrook" <cge at shout.net>
Cc: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>, "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace" <peace at anti-war.net>
Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 3:15 PM

So how many Americans died in Iraq this week?  And how's the missile shield in eastern Europe coming (to cite just two significant differences with the Bush Administration)?
Look -- I'm not saying give anyone a pass on anything.  I'm saying make your point strategically and intelligently.  It's likely to improve your effectiveness.  
Frankly, I don't think there's anything a handful of people in C-U are going to do in the next two months that will make an iota's difference to the outcome of the election or the future of Bradley Manning.  I would guess 95% of the people who drive by any such demonstration will have no idea who Bradley Manning is, and there's nothing you can put on a placard that will inform them.  It won't even be covered by the local newspaper.  So in that respect, I don't care, but the larger point is worth considering.  Do we do these things to fulfill a sense of righteous indignation, or are we trying to have an impact on future
 events?

        From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
 To: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace Discuss
 <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net> 
 Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?

It's important to assess how important the difference it makes is. The answer seems to be, not much. Obama - although he campaigned against them - followed Bush's economic and military polices, if in a more brutal and efficient fashion.
That may be some slight reason to vote against him, but it's certainly not a reason to support him.

On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
I find it mind-boggling that anyone who lived through the years 2000-2008 really believes "it makes no
 difference."

        From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
 To: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net> 
 Sent: Saturday,
 September 1, 2012 10:10 AM
 Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?

I think it's wrong to give Obama a pass on Bradley Manning and hold off on condemning his crimes - from the suppression of WikiLeaks to the murders of Americans and others - for ostensible fear of a candidate (Romney) whose positions on economic and military matters are inherently identical to those of the administration. 
"Voting for reform-minded candidates should take about five minutes, and then we go back to the important work on the ground to change the conditions in which the mostly farcical election process proceeds" [Chomsky]. --CGE

On Sep 1, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm guessing you guys haven't been listening to the Repub Convention speeches, but Romney et al are  FAR, FAR, FAR worse than Obama et al... So how 'bout we save our protests until AFTER the election, and use our energy defeating the LOTS WORSE evils??? It won't significantly affect YOUR lives if the Dems are defeated, but it will be devastating to MILLIONS across the US and the world.

--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Farmer's
 Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
To: "Peace" <peace at anti-war.net>, "Peace Discuss"
 <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 11:26 AM

The wars go on despite the weather and so shall we (at least we'll try).

Expect AWARE and CUCPJ at the Farmer's Market tomorrow morning, 8-noon.

And, from 2-4, the AWARE+OccupyCU demonstration will be at its usual first-Saturday site,

   Main and Neil, downtown Champaign
   2-4 PM Saturday, Sept. 1st

If it turns into a real downpour, we'll retire somewhere nearby for lunch.

There's also a nationally-coordinated suggestion for groups to hold demonstrations on *Thursday,
 September 6th*, in support of Bradley Manning --

    "Show Obama that Bradley Manning is our hero"

Why the 6th?  That's the date of Obama's acceptance speech at the DNC.

To make a definite *proposal*, how
 about:

   (proposed) Demonstration in support of accused whistleblower Bradley Manning
   5:00PM Thursday, Sept. 6th
   Urbana Veterans' Memorial
       (that's Broadway and Main, or, the NW corner of the block where the county courthouse is)

What do people think?   (Could also make sense to complain more broadly about Obama's unfulfilled promise as a peace, civil liberties, etc. candidate from four years ago.)

If you like the idea *and* think you can be there for at least part of 5-6PM, please write back (either to peace-discuss at anti-war.net or to occupyCU or to me, but not to the peace list please).

If we have at least, say, five people who believe they can do this, then let's go for it.  Meanwhile let's consider Sept. 6th as
 still tentative.

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