[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy

Wed Sep 12 22:25:43 UTC 2012

For the record, a caring reaction when when being asked to examine one's
own privilege is to actually do just that, as opposed to lashing out wildly.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Alex Cline <rev.a.r.cline at gmail.com> wrote:

> Seriously, can you guys just take it to reddit or someplace where you can
> do all the yelling on the internet you want to with teenagers and
> libertarian computer programmers? This is disgusting and destructive;
> hardly community-minded...
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Rickman, Aimee N <arickman at illinois.edu>wrote:
>
>>  Whoah.
>>
>>
>>     **************Apologies for any random question marks my system has
>> weirdly added to this email********************
>>
>>  *From:* occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net [
>> occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of E. Wayne Johnson [
>> ewj at pigsqq.org]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:58 PM
>> *To:* Rachel Storm
>> *Cc:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net; David Green;
>> occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo
>> prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy
>>
>>       How does silly and childish compare with shrewish and bitchy on
>> the value scale?
>>
>>
>> On 9/13/2012 3:08 AM, Rachel Storm wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>>  I sent this email to Occupy, not Peace Discuss and your question
>> illustrates precisely what I seek to illuminate. Listservs are designed for
>> the people on them. Not others and the assumption isn't that they will be
>> forwarded willy nilly to folks off of the list. I expect that from people
>> typically, but not from people I am trying to build movements with--we can
>> do better. I'm not going to engage with you, when you seek no understanding
>> and only want to ignite debate. It's silly and childish.
>>
>>  Rachel
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:46 PM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>>   "There is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can
>>> listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually
>>> anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford me."
>>>
>>>  Rachel, do you think that an individual's views can be reduced and/or
>>> dismissed on account of their age, race, and/or gender?
>>>
>>>  David Green
>>>
>>>    *From:* C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>> *To:* Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net; "occupycu at lists.chambana.net" <
>>> occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:24 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo
>>> prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy
>>>
>>> I thought the local Occupy group supported the efforts of AWARE against
>>> US war and racism abroad - even to participating in our demonstrations.
>>>
>>> That's why I posted to the "OccupyCU" list information about the ongoing
>>> scandal of Guantanamo, which is scanted in the corporate media (as is
>>> Manning's persecution, etc.).
>>>
>>> --CGE
>>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 12:16 AM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I must share this...
>>> >
>>> > I've been both terribly bored and fairly annoyed at how this Occupy
>>> listserv is being used. I am someone that cannot regularly attend Occupy
>>> meetings and for me, it's important to be able to stay connected, but what
>>> is Occupy here--in this communication space? What is worth occupying? There
>>> is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can listen to white
>>> men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually anywhere--that's
>>> what patriarchy continues to afford me. I'm tired of having to ask men in
>>> the movement to check their privilege. It shouldn't have to be asked-- I
>>> hear men in the movement say they want revolution, but I don't see
>>> willingness to do the work. We are failing to model what we seek. We need
>>> more imagination than this. We can do better.
>>> >
>>> >     • We can value dialogue over debate. Modeling that we're a
>>> community of people seeking understanding, rather than trying to get their
>>> word in edgewise. Those with privilege in the movement (men, white folks,
>>> etc.) can step back, make space, talk less/listen more. This isn't hard to
>>> do and makes a world of difference. (Just count the number of women, people
>>> of color, etc. actively engaged on these C-U activist lists or being
>>> listened to at meetings and you'll see how deep this problem is.)
>>> >     • We can "check each other" in an act of care. Knowing that we're
>>> not perfect, but we're trying and we have a responsibility to help one
>>> another grow where possible. We can tell those who are dominating
>>> conversation to step back, to ask for clarification, and to listen.
>>> >     • We can reject "occupation" as our language in solidarity with
>>> native peoples all over North America. We can privilege people of color and
>>> women's voices--knowing these voices ought to drive the movement that seeks
>>> decolonization and an end to marginalization.
>>> >     • We can spend more time imagining what we want, alternatives, and
>>> raging where it matters!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In the past month alone, I've witnessed a silencing conversation
>>> around the rape allegations facing Assange that signals to me--as a
>>> woman--that the same men that say they care about women in the movement are
>>> no where to be found when it comes time to stand up against violence
>>> against women. I've been to meetings where women's voices were rarely
>>> heard--and I know my sisters had plenty to say!
>>> > I am reminded of Adrienne Rich who cautioned a white-led feminist
>>> movement, "Without addressing the whiteness of white feminism, our movement
>>> will turn in on itself and collapse."
>>> >
>>> > There are other voices we need in this space. This local organizing
>>> will not last unless we turn our attention to these matters.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_s3X0uW9Ec&feature=player_embedded
>>> >
>>> > love and rage,
>>> >
>>> > RS
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttp://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OccupyCU mailing list
>> OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20120912/e7c81709/attachment.html>