[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy

[C. G. Estabrook]

Obama can kill kids or hold people in indefinite detention until they kill themselves, and that's not Constitutional, but let's not talk about it, because it might hurt his re-election chances.

But we can talk about who sends too many e-mails. That's revolutionary. --CGE


On Sep 12, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> David,
> 
> I sent this email to Occupy, not Peace Discuss and your question illustrates precisely what I seek to illuminate. Listservs are designed for the people on them. Not others and the assumption isn't that they will be forwarded willy nilly to folks off of the list. I expect that from people typically, but not from people I am trying to build movements with--we can do better. I'm not going to engage with you, when you seek no understanding and only want to ignite debate. It's silly and childish.
> 
> Rachel
> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:46 PM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "There is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford me."
>  
> Rachel, do you think that an individual's views can be reduced and/or dismissed on account of their age, race, and/or gender?
>  
> David Green
> 
> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> To: Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> 
> Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; "occupycu at lists.chambana.net" <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net> 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy
> 
> I thought the local Occupy group supported the efforts of AWARE against US war and racism abroad - even to participating in our demonstrations.
> 
> That's why I posted to the "OccupyCU" list information about the ongoing scandal of Guantanamo, which is scanted in the corporate media (as is Manning's persecution, etc.).  
> 
> --CGE
> 
> On Sep 12, 2012, at 12:16 AM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I must share this...
> > 
> > I've been both terribly bored and fairly annoyed at how this Occupy listserv is being used. I am someone that cannot regularly attend Occupy meetings and for me, it's important to be able to stay connected, but what is Occupy here--in this communication space? What is worth occupying? There is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford me. I'm tired of having to ask men in the movement to check their privilege. It shouldn't have to be asked-- I hear men in the movement say they want revolution, but I don't see willingness to do the work. We are failing to model what we seek. We need more imagination than this. We can do better. 
> > 
> >     • We can value dialogue over debate. Modeling that we're a community of people seeking understanding, rather than trying to get their word in edgewise. Those with privilege in the movement (men, white folks, etc.) can step back, make space, talk less/listen more. This isn't hard to do and makes a world of difference. (Just count the number of women, people of color, etc. actively engaged on these C-U activist lists or being listened to at meetings and you'll see how deep this problem is.)
> >     • We can "check each other" in an act of care. Knowing that we're not perfect, but we're trying and we have a responsibility to help one another grow where possible. We can tell those who are dominating conversation to step back, to ask for clarification, and to listen.
> >     • We can reject "occupation" as our language in solidarity with native peoples all over North America. We can privilege people of color and women's voices--knowing these voices ought to drive the movement that seeks decolonization and an end to marginalization. 
> >     • We can spend more time imagining what we want, alternatives, and raging where it matters!
> > 
> > 
> > In the past month alone, I've witnessed a silencing conversation around the rape allegations facing Assange that signals to me--as a woman--that the same men that say they care about women in the movement are no where to be found when it comes time to stand up against violence against women. I've been to meetings where women's voices were rarely heard--and I know my sisters had plenty to say! 
> > I am reminded of Adrienne Rich who cautioned a white-led feminist movement, "Without addressing the whiteness of white feminism, our movement will turn in on itself and collapse." 
> > 
> > There are other voices we need in this space. This local organizing will not last unless we turn our attention to these matters. 
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_s3X0uW9Ec&feature=player_embedded
> > 
> > love and rage,
> > 
> > RS
> 
> 
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