[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Press release

Fri Dec 27 20:17:23 UTC 2013

Yaaqov;

First, I participated and spoke at no meeting at UFL in 2012, or ever, in relation to I/P; you are fantasizing, or confusing me with someone else. At the few occasions that I have attended events over the years that you attended, I only recall your penchant for asserting relative Israeli innocence and pointing the finger at the Palestinians. I have found your approach consistently offensive, on many levels. I recall a meeting at UFL at which Dr. Abueleish spoke about the murder of his daughters by the IDF in Cast Lead. You were there to ask him to denounce Hamas. He certainly handled your question a lot better than I would have. You were at best rude. If the opportunity arises, I'll be more honest in person regarding your (may I say typical?) Israeli/Zionist arrogance.

Regarding your concern about Israelis/Zionists, it's a red herring. I do not use the words interchangeably in terms of professed ideology and beliefs. It's better to talk about what Israel is and what Jewish Israelis do. Nevertheless, all Jewish Israelis benefit relative to Palestinians, whether citizens of Israel or occupied, who are denied their rights by the fruition of Zionist ideas in the evolution of the Jewish state. In other words, apartheid. Call it Zionist apartheid or Israeli apartheid or Jewish apartheid, or call it "fried chicken," to refer to an Israeli leader's famous description of a future Bantustan Palestinian state. Zionism is a settler-colonialist ideology. Israel is a country defined by the dominance of Arabs by Jews, at a highly institutionalized level. It's the embodiment of Jabotinsky's "the iron wall," with much of the dirty work done by "socialist labor." Israeli Jews are all Zionist in the same way that white southerners were
 all segregationists prior to 1965. You're welcome to plead innocent; I'm not charging you personally with anything; I honestly could not care less about you personally. Apparently, you find Israel distasteful, so you emigrated, as do many. So why do you pick nits about language instead of denouncing the behavior of the state from which you fled? Well, I think I know the answer to that; you're not unique.

Along with the long-state stances of advocates like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein, I support a just solution to the conflict along the lines of the pre-67 borders, two states, a viable and sovereign Palestinian state, East Jerusalem as part of Palestine and its capital, and recognition of the right of return per international law; and settlers become Palestinian citizens or go home. As both of the above say, a very simple solution that is impeded only by the opposition of the U.S. government to it. See Rashid Khalidi, Brokers of Deceit, or Josh Reubner, Shattered Hopes.

I hope this response isn't too long for your Zionist sensibilities. Perhaps you can break it down and read it in two sittings.

David Green

On Friday, December 27, 2013 1:34 PM, ya'aQov <yaaqovz at gmail.com> wrote:

In a 2012 meeting on the conflict in the Middle East at the UFL, you have consistently referred to Israelis as Zionists.  Your phrase 'Israel and AIPAC' in this very communication is another slogan.  You could answer my question by stating your stand vis-a-vis Palestinians, regardless of what my reasons are.  The next paragraph could be your answer to my simple question, could you? 
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>On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:25 AM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
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>You'll have to give me some help by specifically quoting the "slogans" to which you refer. Then I can respond to you. 
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>>On Friday, December 27, 2013 11:01 AM, ya'aQov <yaaqovz at gmail.com> wrote:
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>>David Green,
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>>>While I firmly support P5+1 talks with Iran, I am not convinced of your support.  I have often heard you   supporting Palestinian propaganda slogans, as long as they were against, as you put it, Israel and AIPAC.  By 'Israel' you  shortcut  to 'Zionists', 'bad guys'. So I knew what you were against.   But I don't quite know what you are for.   Would you please state what you consider 'Palestinians' and what you think would be helpful to the Palestinians? I would appreciate your limiting your answer to one paragraph.  Thank you,
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>>>Ya'aqov Ziso
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>>>On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 AM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
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>>>This was sent to 27 editors and reporters in IL-13. 
>>>>Press Release: David Green supports P5+1 talks with Iran and opposes attempts to undermine them with further sanctions against Iran 
>>>>David Green, candidate for U.S. Congress in IL-13, agrees with a statement by antiwar activist Media Benjaminregarding a positive development in 2013: 
>>>>“Talks with Iran are progressing, despite Israel and AIPAC’s objections. The P5+1 group of Britain, China, France, Russia, the United States and Germany has made great headway in finding a solution to diffuse the crisis around Iran’s nuclear program. Negotiators are anxious to take advantage of the opening represented by the election of a moderate Iranian leader, President Hassan Rouhani. Sadly, a group of both Democrats and Republicans in Congress, along with the AIPAC lobby, threaten to derail the talks by pushing for greater sanctions against Iran. If we can move ahead with talks, 2014 could be the year we finally ditch the Bush-era “axis of evil” treatment and build friendly relations with Iran.”
>>>>The primary Republican sponsor of the Senate bill that threatens greater sanctions against Iran is our own Senator Mark Kirk. David Green firmly opposes his dangerous and potentially destructive efforts, and calls upon his opponents in the Democratic Party for U.S. Congress in IL-13 to do the same—or to clearly state their reasons for doing otherwise. 
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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>>>-- 
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>>>ya'aQovziso  
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>ya'aQovziso  
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