[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] New bishop of Rome...

Fri Mar 15 01:16:31 UTC 2013

Frnkln Ridgway shared Public Transportation's photo.

Apparently the photos of Bergoglio with Videla were not actually of Bergoglio. So, instead, here's a photo of Bergoglio riding the Subte.

And the Guardian withdrew today its most serious charge of collaboration with the dictatorship by Bergoglio, contained in Hugh O'Shaughnessy's column for 4 January 2011:

"This article was amended on 14 March 2013. The original article, published in 2011, wrongly suggested that Argentinian journalist Horacio Verbitsky claimed that Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio connived with the Argentinian navy to hide political prisoners on an island called El Silencio during an inspection by human rights monitors. Although Verbitsky makes other allegations about Bergoglio's complicity in human rights abuses, he does not make this claim. The original article also wrongly described El Silencio as Bergoglio's 'holiday home'. This has been corrected."

On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Daniel Werst <danielwerst at gmail.com> wrote:

> Everyone in Argentina knew about the actions of the junta. It "disappeared 20 to 30 thousand people, and Bergoglio publicly gave communion to the top general, Videla during the dictatorship in the late 70s.
> 
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> Daniel Werst
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> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
> This is ad hominim (sp?). The question we would like to know is: Did he know and yet not condemn the actions of the junta? 
> 
> It seems to me an unfortunate choice, to say the least, for the church, and others. The best of the candidates? If so whoa!
> 
> --mkb
> 
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:29 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Whatever his relation to the Argentine junta, unlike some Bergoglio never publicly supported a child-killer, even as a 'lesser evil.'
>> 
>> 
>> --CGE
>> 
>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:05 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> From an article in the NYT: (with my italics)
>>> As Archbishop of Buenos Aires since 1998, and a Cardinal since 2001, he frequently tangled with Argentina’s governments over social issues. In 2010, for example, he castigated a government-supported law to legalize marriage and adoption by same-sex couples as “a war against God.”
>>> 
>>> He has been less energetic, however, in urging the Argentine church to examine its own behavior during the 1970s, when the country was consumed by a conflict between right and left that became known as the Dirty War, during which as many as 30,000 people were disappeared, tortured or killed by a military dictatorship that seized power in March 1976.
>>> 
>>> In a long interview with an Argentine newspaper in 2010, then-Archbishop Bergoglio defended his behavior during the dictatorship. He said that he had helped hide people being sought for arrest or disappearance by the military because of their political views, had helped others leave Argentina and had lobbied the country’s military rulers directly for the release and protection of others."
>>> 
>>> It would be interesting  to know the validity of this last claim. 
>>> 
>>> --mkb
>>> 
>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:42 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>> 
>>>> These stories were circulated before the 2005 election, where Bergoglio came second to Ratzinger. If they could be substantiated, it seems his enemies would have used them in the run-up to the conclave. 
>>>> 
>>>> <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=174220195>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Paul Mueth <paulmueth at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-protest/catholicchurch_2709.jsp
>>>>> Breaking the silence: the Catholic Church in Argentina and the 'dirty war'
>>>>> 
>>>>> HORACIO VERBITSKY 27 July 2005
>>>>> Subjects:
>>>>> • latin america
>>>>> About the author
>>>>> Horacio Verbitsky is a leading Argentinean investigative journalist. He was given an International Press Freedom Award by the Committee to Protect Journalists in 2001. Among his books is The Silence: from Paulo VI to Bergoglio, the secret links between the Church and the Navy Mechanics School (2005) and The Flight: Confessions of an Argentine Dirty Warrior (New Press, 2005).
>>>>> Argentina between 1976 and 1983 was wracked by a “dirty war” in which successive military regimes hunted down, tortured and “disappeared” tens of thousands of citizens. The process had begun when Argentina’s already febrile politics started to split open in the mid-1970s. The military seized power in a coup from Isabelita Peron’s government, in the wake of an armed insurgency by Montoneros guerrillas.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The dictatorship that followed consigned thousands of Argentineans into military detention. Most were tortured; a few were released, many were eventually murdered. These “disappeared” numbered in all around 30,000.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>>>> To: Paul Mueth <paulmueth at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Cc: "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net List" <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; ocCUpy <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, March 13, 2013 4:12:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [sf-core] New bishop of Rome
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pope Ratzinger's response to liberation theology was complex - as those who read the documents from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith when he was head of it can see. The press has preferred a simpler narrative.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And those who read what he actually wrote as bishop of Rome will find a critique of neoliberalism and a call for the redistribution of wealth, well to the left of any mainstream US (and EU) politician.
>>>>> 
>>>>> E.g., from Caritas in Veritate, his major social encyclical (2009): - "The global market has stimulated first and foremost, on the part of rich countries, a search for areas in which to outsource production at low cost with a view to reducing the prices of many goods, increasing purchasing power and thus accelerating the rate of development in terms of greater availability of consumer goods for the domestic market. Consequently, the market has prompted new forms of competition between  States as they seek to attract foreign businesses to set up production centres, by means of a variety of instruments, including favourable fiscal regimes and deregulation of the labour market. These processes have led to a downsizing of social security systems as the price to be paid for seeking greater competitive advantage in the global market, with consequent grave danger for the rights of workers, for fundamental human rights and for the solidarity associated with the traditional forms of the social State." 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chomsky has written frequesntly of the US "war against the church," notably "... the murder of the Jesuit intellectuals [in November 1989]. There has been much debate about who deserves credit for the fall of the Berlin wall, but there is none about the responsibility for the brutal demolition of the attempt to revive the church of the Gospels [i.e., liberation theology]. Washington's School of the Americas, famous for its training of Latin American killers, proudly announced as one of its 'talking points' that liberation theology was 'defeated with the assistance of the US army' -- given a helping hand, to be sure by the Vatican, using the gentler means of expulsion and suppression" <http://www.chomsky.info/talks/20100323.htm>.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> --CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Paul Mueth <paulmueth at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yea, RATzinger was good on discourse as well, whilst repressing liberation theologians and activists, cooperating with Casey's CIA. 
>>>>>> This pope was an opponent of LT probably all thru the dirty war. . . 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roy Bourgeois has been excommunicated BTW
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "We live in the most unequal part of the world, which has grown the most yet reduced misery the least. The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --Pope Francis - Abp. Jorge Mario Bergoglio SJ of Buenos Aires - to a gathering of Latin American bishops in 2007
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 

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