[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 TruthConference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library

Fri Sep 20 23:09:40 UTC 2013

Gehrig no doubt thinks that the author of
The Merchant of Venice was anti-semitic
and blames him for the Holocaust.

On 09/21/13 5:14, David Johnson wrote:
> Good point Carl,
>
> BUT, the conference on Sunday is NOT about anti-semitism, despite the 
> efforts of David Gehrig to equate the two, it is about questioning the 
> " official " Bush administration story about the 9-11-2001 attacks.
>
> Mr. Fetzer's views on other subjects are irrelevant in regards to the 
> 9-11 conference.
>
> Even IF Mr. Gehrig is correct about Mr. Fetzer being " anti-semetic ", 
> the subject of the Holocaust and anti-semitism will NOT be the subject 
> of the conference.
>
> But just to set the record straight, did you notice how quick Mr. 
> Gehrig was in trying to equate AWARE with anti-semitism, just because 
> there was a debate on the Peace Discuss list ?
> And also, ever since I can remember Mr. Gehrig's postings to Peace 
> Discuss, NOT ONCE has he EVER posted an article or an opinion against 
> the neo-con / neo-liberal wars of corporate empire.
> Which makes me question Mr. Gehrigs TRUE purpose and agenda for being 
> on this list.
>
> So I will ask you Mr. Gehrig, do you or do you not support the past 
> Bush administration and the current Obama administration's foreign 
> policy in regards to ;
> 1) The invasion of Afganistan
> 2) The invasion of Iraq
> 3) Targeted Drone assinations of U.S. citizens
> 4) the Patriot Act, the Defense Authorization Act, and the Edward 
> Snowden affair
>
> Myself and others who have spoken privately off-list would really like 
> to know.
>
> David Johnson
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" 
> <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> To: "David Gehrig" <david-cu at nukulele.org>
> Cc: "sftalk" <sftalk at yahoogroups.com>; "Stephen Francis" 
> <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>; <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "Jim 
> Fetzer" <jfetzer at d.umn.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 
> TruthConference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library
>
>
>> David--  Did you read my note? AWARE is against racism. I set out 
>> some specifics.
>>
>> You seem to suggest anti-Semites should be prevented from "coming to 
>> town," or speaking.
>>
>> If you don't believe in free speech for people you despise, you don't 
>> believe in it at all.
>>
>> --CGE
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2013, at 11:48 AM, David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Carl handily demonstrates the problem. Fetzer is a flood of 
>>> Holocaust denial, an inherently antisemitic enterprise. Francis, 
>>> while not motivated by antisemitism, does not have any basic problem 
>>> with passing along the antisemitic crap from Fetzer, including the 
>>> claim that the Jewish dead of the Holocaust has been intentionally 
>>> inflated by a factor of ten.
>>>
>>> Did Carl notice any of this? I mean, hey, only a notably and 
>>> nationally known antisemitic speaker -- and Barrett is just as bad 
>>> -- come to town, is all. Why on earth would a self-proclaimed 
>>> anti-racist organization have a problem with antisemites coming to 
>>> town?
>>>
>>> Why would AWARE care that a nationally known Holocaust denier is 
>>> coming to town?
>>>
>>> Well, that depends. Which kinds of racism is AWARE actually against?
>>>
>>> "Nazi - schmatzi" AWARE sez, "we don't care, as long as he's not a 
>>> neo-liberal!"
>>>
>>> @%<
>>>
>>>> On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:43 AM, "C. G. Estabrook" 
>>>> <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "...The more interesting question at this point, of course, is this 
>>>> ... where does AWARE stand?"
>>>>
>>>> Why does David consider that "the more interesting question"? AWARE 
>>>> has not been involved in the Gehrig/Francis contretemps, other than 
>>>> having its listserv <peace-discuss> the locus of the debate.
>>>>
>>>> There are members and friends of AWARE who think that the 9/11 
>>>> Truth Movement is on to something - indeed, that it is perhaps the 
>>>> most important political question in the US today.
>>>>
>>>> There are others (I'm one) who think that Chomsky has it right: 
>>>> "its major impact has been to draw off energy from trying to do 
>>>> anything about the problems that have arisen" - i.e., Obama's 
>>>> ongoing wars.
>>>>
>>>> AWARE, the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of C-U, was founded 
>>>> immediately after the attacks of September 11, 2001, by residents 
>>>> of Champaign-Urbana and members of the University of Illinois, who 
>>>> saw that the U.S. government would use those crimes (whether or not 
>>>> it had guilty knowledge of them) as an excuse to carry on and 
>>>> expand its decades-long wars for the control of Middle East energy 
>>>> resources.
>>>>
>>>> For a dozen years now, members and friends of AWARE have worked in 
>>>> Champaign-Urbana to end the killing by the Bush & Obama 
>>>> administrations, by informing their fellow citizens of the real 
>>>> nature of the "war on terrorism," in opposition to the largest and 
>>>> most sophisticated propaganda campaign in history, conducted by the 
>>>> US government, and directed at the American people.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, the US has been carrying on wars in the Middle East for 
>>>> more than two generations, practically since the end of the Second 
>>>> World War. (The reason is not far to seek: if the principal product 
>>>> of the Mideast were asparagus, we wouldn't have half the American 
>>>> military there.) AWARE is directed against the ongoing (and 
>>>> expanding) wars for economic control by the American 1%. (See the 
>>>> recently published "On Western Terrorism: From Hiroshima to Drone 
>>>> Warfare," by Noam Chomsky and Andre Vltchek.)
>>>>
>>>> AWARE has from its beginning been concerned about the racism bound 
>>>> up with those wars, viz.,
>>>> (1) the US government's use of anti-Arab (and anti-Muslim) 
>>>> propaganda, even though a principal US client is the world's most 
>>>> reactionary Muslim state, Saudi Arabia;
>>>> (2) the US government's support for an officially racist state, 
>>>> Israel, its other principal client in the region, as a "stationary 
>>>> aircraft carrier" in its Mideast crimes; and
>>>> (3) the US government's employment as soldiers and mercenaries of 
>>>> poor African-Americans and Latina/os (although a recent study 
>>>> suggests that, controlled for class [so to speak], the exploitation 
>>>> of these communities is not disproportionate).
>>>>
>>>> It's also been argued within AWARE that anti-racism (and identity 
>>>> politics in general) has been a fall-back position of an American 
>>>> liberalism unable to counter the vicious class war carried on by 
>>>> neoliberalism for more than a generation - and to that extent it's 
>>>> a distraction from the sources of the ongoing "Western terrorism." 
>>>> (For the opposite view, see Dave Roediger's contribution to this 
>>>> list.)
>>>>
>>>> The efforts of AWARE and many similar groups across the country 
>>>> have recently produced a victory for the only enemy the president 
>>>> and the neoliberal parties fear - the US populace. Opposition from 
>>>> the Left and Right (and from all races) is growing outside the 
>>>> control of the Republicans and Democrats; it's stymied for the 
>>>> moment Obama's expansion of the war.
>>>>
>>>> --CGE
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 18, 2013, at 8:47 AM, David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve, your unwillingness to address Fetzer's now well-established 
>>>>> antisemitism does not magically negate that antisemitism. Neither 
>>>>> does it negate your personal moral culpability for inviting a 
>>>>> nationally known Holocaust denier to come speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> The more interesting question at this point, of course, is this. 
>>>>> Now that Fetzer's made it clear that he is motivated by 
>>>>> antisemitism, that he does pillage white power sites looking for 
>>>>> goodies to use against The Jew -- where does AWARE stand?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does AWARE oppose antisemitism this blatant?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do only some kinds of anti-racism result in AWARE action?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is AWARE anti-racist, or only anti-racist with an asterisk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is AWARE's position "Nazi-schmatzi, who cares, as long as he's not 
>>>>> a neo-liberal"?
>>>>>
>>>>> @%<
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 18, 2013, at 8:23 AM, Stephen Francis 
>>>>>> <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to remind everyone, The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference is 
>>>>>> about focusing on the evidence of the crime committed on 9/11 and 
>>>>>> not about defending ourselves from attacks of 
>>>>>> anti-Semitism....and will be conducted as such...
>>>>
>>
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>
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