[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results

Thu Feb 6 21:01:55 UTC 2014

I find it curious that you appear to be putting all " progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate(s)" into the same bag (as M. Obama). What do you have against Carol Ammons (as against her opponents) aside from the fact that she has the same color as Obama (which could mislead us in our choice).  

--mkb

On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:33 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

> The national Democrats offered "a progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in Terms of class inequality" for president, and his mendacity got us an administration of assassination and austerity. 
> 
> Doesn't that suggest that we should ask what "progressive, ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate[s]" on the local level actually propose, rather than voting for them out of debased identity politics?
> 
> --CGE
> 
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Barrett, James R <jrbarret at uiuc.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Very discouraging. I doubt anyone agrees with all of her
>> views, but we have a progressive, ostentatiously 
>> pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in 
>> Terms of class inequality and we're supposed
>> to invest our limited time into attacking her? That's sick.
>> 
>> Jim Barrett
>> ________________________________________
>> From: sf-core at yahoogroups.com [sf-core at yahoogroups.com] on behalf of C. G. Estabrook [carl at newsfromneptune.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:39 AM
>> To: David Johnson
>> Cc: sf-core; Peace-discuss; occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> Subject: Re: [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results [1 Attachment]
>> 
>> [Attachment(s) from C. G. Estabrook included below]
>> 
>> David--
>> 
>> As you know, "enterprise zones" are a neoliberal technique, originally proposed by 'supply-side' economists. Their current proponents acknowledge successful criticism by looking for newer, more marketable names - e.g., "technology zones."
>> 
>> It's not clear that states and municipalities should be competing to give breaks to corporate entities on the threat that they might move away and take jobs - or on the promise to bring them. See e.g., Durl Kruse' letter (attached) regarding the Champaign City Council's "Tax Increment Financing District" that will give Kraft "a $3.6 million tax subsidy to build a new warehouse."
>> 
>> Durl writes, "One must wonder if this TIF project represents the flexing of corporate muscle by threatening the community 'not to build if not approved,' and when given the opportunity, to directly manipulate TIF laws for corporate gain at taxpayers' expense."
>> 
>> Clearly, the supposed benefits of such a program should generalize. You can make an argument for "an across the board corporate tax cut" to promote trade and employment. Such business taxes should be replaced with taxes on concentrated wealth and speculation - i.e., taxes on investable assets, and Tobin taxes.
>> 
>> Given the entrenched (non-democratic) political power of capital, wealth taxes and Tobin taxes are not on the horizon in Illinois, unfortunately. (The Democrats should of course be opposed on this point.) The best we can do in the near future seems to be a progressive income tax and social subsidies, including perhaps the state single-payer system that you've been working for.
>> 
>> Regards, CGE
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:21 PM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> The differnce is that Rosenberg supports an across the board corporate tax cut with no conditions.
>>> 
>>> Carol Ammons " Technology Zone Program " gives a tax break to a company ONLY if a company ;
>>> 
>>> 1) increases employment by the greater of 10 % of its current workforce or a minimum of 3 new full-time employees
>>> 
>>> 2) Pays wages of 20 % or more above the median income of Champaign County
>>> 
>>> 3) Employ a minimum of 5 full-time employees
>>> 
>>> Not to mention that Rosenberg is an attorney who works for Carle Clinic and takes poor and elderly people to court for not paying hospital bills.
>>> 
>>> Carol has been a community activist for over a decade, opposing the : Police, States Attorney and other local officials / vested interests at times when necessary in the pursuit of social justice.
>>> 
>>> Again, the choice is clear to me who would be the better advocate for Working people in the 103rd District
>>> 
>>> David Johnson
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: C. G. Estabrook
>>> To: David Johnson
>>> Cc: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@mail0.frost.chambana.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results
>>> 
>>> Didn't Carol support 'enterprise zones' (under another name), which are even more substantial corporate tax cats - for favored corporations?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:24 PM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I just returned from the Ammons vs. Rosenberg debate, for the Illinois 103rd State Rep Democratic Primary race.
>>>> 
>>>> The major differences between the two candidates were ;
>>>> 
>>>> Rosenberg SUPPORTS cutting corporate taxes and OPPOSES the $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.
>>>> 
>>>> Carol Ammons in contrast OPPOSES cutting corporate taxes and SUPPORTS the $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.
>>>> 
>>>> Rosenberg also stated that Carol Ammons experience in local government on the County Board and the Urbana City Council does NOT make her more qualified than him in terms of experience.
>>>> He stated that ;
>>>> " Springfield is a different BEAST than local government and I am more qualified to deal with that."
>>>> 
>>>> The difference could not be any clearer to me.
>>>> 
>>>> What was also interesting was that I submitted TWO questions for the candidates, first via e-mail several days before the debate and early on at the debate.
>>>> Neither question was asked !
>>>> 
>>>> The questions were ;
>>>> 
>>>> 1) Would you be willing to co-sponsor the current House Bill to enact a universal health care system in Illinois ( H.B. 942 ).
>>>> 
>>>> and
>>>> 
>>>> 2) Would you co-sponsor House Bill H.B. 3754 that would dissolve the Illinois Charter School Commision
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder why the Moderators avoided asking these questions ?
>>>> 
>>>> David Johnson
>> 
> 
> 
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