[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 9/11 Truth, The Elephant in the Room video ....

Thu Mar 27 08:50:22 UTC 2014

Thank you David, there is so much disinformation and hidden clues, it's very hard to know where to start.

Here's more on the hijackers: 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.
http://www.azstarnet.com/attack/10928TERRORISTMUGGRAPHIC.html
Online Service of the Arizona Daily Star - 9/28/01 - Hijack suspect profiles
"An FBI notice to banks on Sept. 19 raised the possibility that Almihdhar might still be alive without speculating or explaining how that could be possible. "
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/27/inv.suspects/
CNN - 9/28/01 - Details of hijacking suspects released
Khalid Almihdhar: there are reports he is still alive
3 
________________________________

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
4 
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=94438
'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah - 9/17/01
A man named by the US Department of Justice as a suicide hijacker of American Airlines flight 11 ï¿½ the first airliner to smash into the World Trade Centre ï¿½ is very much alive and living in Jeddah. Abdulrahman al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking ï¿½ as well as being dead ï¿½ and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_suspects.html
ABC - Who Did It? FBI Links Names to Terror Attacks
"The name [listed by the FBI] is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdulaziz Alomari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Omari, who was accused of hijacking the American Airlines plane that smashed into the the World Trade Centre's north tower, said that he was at his desk at the Saudi telecommunications authority in Riyadh when the attacks took place.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.
5 
________________________________

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
The Saudi Airlines pilot, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, 25, and Abdulaziz Al-Omari, an engineer from Riyadh, are furious that the hijackers' "personal details" - including name, place, date of birth and occupation - matched their own.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi. He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.
6 
________________________________

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.
7 
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http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Nami, 33, from Riyadh, an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, said that he was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck. He said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked."
8 
________________________________

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/investigation.terrorism/index.html
CNN - FBI: Early probe results show 18 hijackers took part 9/13/01
Based on information from multiple law enforcement sources, CNN reported that Adnan Bukhari and Ameer Bukhari of Vero Beach Florida, were suspected to be two of the pilots who crashed planes into the World Trade Center. CNN later learned that Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida, where he was questioned by the FBI. We are sorry for the misinformation. A federal law enforcement source now tells CNN that Bukhari passed an FBI polygraph and is not considered a suspect. Through his attorney, Bukhari says that he is helping authorities. Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year.
Some of those involved in the plot left suicide notes, but they are not believed to have been the hijackers, a government source told The Associated Press. It was unclear whether those who left the notes actually killed themselves.
9 
________________________________

Cairo Times - 9/27/01
He also claimed that his son had called him two days after the attack, and described it as "a normal conversation." But he snarled when asked to give further details. Asked what country Muhammad had called from, he said, "The name of the country isn't written on the phone." Asked where Muhammad was now, he said, "Ask Mossad."
order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
Video shows Atta was not suicidal, as he pays bills and returns rentals.
10 
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-092101probe.story
Los Angeles Times - 9/21/01
A man by the same name is a pilot, whose father is a Saudi diplomat in Bombay. "I personally talked to both father and son today," said Gaafar Allagany, head of the Saudi Embassy's information center.
11 
________________________________

Saudi Gazette 9/18/01 and The Khaleej Times 9/20/01
Marwan al-Shehhi is still alive in Morocco
12 
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/20/attack/main322092.shtml
CBS - Bin Laden Names Hijackers On Tape Dec. 20, 2001
He would identify only three: Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Wail Alshehri. Alshehri was on American Airlines flight 11, one of the planes that hit the Twin Towers at the World Trade Center in New York; Alhamzi and Alhamzi were on American Airlines flight 77, which hit the Pentagon.
Bin Laden's "smoking gun" video names living, uninvolved people? This makes no sense!
This is just the beginning, this "confession" video is full of abnormalities.
13 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm
BBC- The last moments of Flight 11
The FBI has named five hijackers on board Flight 11, whereas Ms Sweeney spotted only four. Also, the seat numbers she gave were different from those registered in the hijackers' names.
14 
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http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bueau of Investigation - Hijackers

15 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm
BBC - FBI probes hijackers' identities 9/21/01
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
16 
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sns-worldtrade-jarrah-lat.story
Los Angeles Times - 10/23/01 - Friends of terror suspect say allegations make no sense
By Carol J. Williams Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
...Ziad and Salim ... left Lebanon together April 4, 1996, at the age of 20, heading to the eastern German town of Greifswald in pursuit of both an education and a good time.
Jarrah and the other three men named by the FBI as hijackers...initially came to be on the list of 19 because they "have been identified as having 'Arabic' names
http://web.archive.org/web/20010925123748/boston.com/dailyglobe2/268/nation/Hijack_suspect_lived_a_life_or_a_lie%2B.shtml
Boston Globe - Hijack suspect lived a life, or a lie - 9/25/01
Although a Brooklyn apartment lease from 1995-1996 bears Ziad Jarrah's name - and landlords there have identified his photograph - his family insists he was in Beirut at the time.
How was he in Brooklyn and Lebanon at the same time?
..two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he'd be coming home for a cousin's wedding in mid-September. "He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/01/cia.hijacker/index.html
CNN 8/1/02 - September 11 hijacker questioned in January 2001
The CIA suspected Ziad Jarrah had been in Afghanistan and wanted him questioned because of "his suspected involvement in terrorist activities," UAE sources said.
A CIA spokesman vigorously denied that the CIA knew anything about Jarrah before September 11 or had anything do with his questioning in Dubai.

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:38 AM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:

Yes,

Who are ( were ) the owners of Popular Mechanics and who was one of the so 
called " debunkers " employed at Popular Mechanics.
Hint.. The last names of Hearst and Chernov, as in Hearst publications and 
Michael Chernov's nephew.

You need to check out David Ray Griffin's well documented book
" Debunking 9-11 Debunking " and Archietects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth 
website.
But of course you won't.

And trying to lump all people who question the Bush admin and corporate 
media fairytale in with known lunatics like David Ickes and intentional 
disinformation is disingenuous.
Especially when you have never made an effort to look at any serious 
research and facts that contradicts the " official " corporate narrative.

Respectfully

David J.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ricky Baldwin" <rbaldwin at seiu73.org>
To: "Stephen Francis" <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>; 
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "occupycu" <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 9/11 Truth, The Elephant in the Room video ....

> There is another, more obvious, reason that none of those networks will 
> officially go down the rabbit hole of "9-11 Truth".  That reason is that 
> there is no good reason for doing so.  I suspect for some of those it 
> would be politically uncomfortable, because they don't like to rock that 
> boat.  But it's hard to accuse them of having that one as primary because 
> the other reason is so much stronger.
>
> I don't think any of us disputes that those people were murdered on 
> 9-11-01.  The question is by whom.  I'm not sure if you're serious about 
> the question of responsibility, but in terms of "provid[ing] information 
> that it was some other force other than a combination of Israel / British 
> / Israel"... um... there is the matter of the two enormous jets that flew 
> into the buildings and the fact that a third crashed into the Pentagon 
> following broken messages on radio and cell phone indicating that 
> terrorist were trying to use the craft as a weapon.  There is the matter 
> of the very public burning of the towers, broadcast live and repeated on 
> TV worldwide, and the eyewitness reports of many survivors that the 
> buildings were on fire when they escaped.  There are numerous reports by 
> engineers and other knowledgeable people on such matters that, yep, it was 
> pretty much what it appeared to be.
>
> Here's a small sample: 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/engineering/architecture/911-myths
>
> Here's another fairly thorough source explaining what the evidence shows: 
> http://www.debunking911.com/
>
> And a few more salient points: 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/05/9-11-conspiracy-theories-debunked
>
> And finally, the Israeli government is guilty of many crimes, as is the Us 
> government.  This does not mean either is guilty of this one.  Your 
> assertion that the fact of disagreement on this point somehow "proves 
> [your] point" only suggests that you are caught in some sort of very 
> unfortunate feedback loop, i.e. everything you encounter seems to you to 
> confirm your opinion.  Your reason can only suffer from such a 
> development.
>
> Ricky
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Francis [stephenf1113 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 4:48 PM
> To: Ricky Baldwin; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; occupycu
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 9/11 Truth, The Elephant in the Room video ....
>
> If you want me to repeat what I said above I will, but I think it's 
> unnecessary.
> Israel is under greater attack for more directions than ever before 
> because of the vast number of media choices people have to decide what the 
> want to pay attention to and have the will now to break through the 
> propaganda provided by the MSM, Wikipedia, Facebook and Google.  They 
> won't touch 9/11, which is a highly significant point in itself that 
> supports my view that Israel was complicit in 9/11.
>
> I'm old enough to remember watching Walter Kronkite on a black and white 
> TV and realize now that I was being brainwashed. I am no longer 
> brainwashed.
>
> I made the very incendiary remark about a year ago that I thought 3000 
> people were murdered on 9/11 and I still hold that belief, based on a 
> scientific process of evidence accumulation and analysis. No matter what I 
> do, nothing changes this.  If anyone can provide information that it was 
> some other force other than a combination of Israel / British / Israel I 
> will gladly look at that.
>
> And like I mentioned above, we (these threads) all agree on many social 
> justice issues, but disagree vehemently on 9/11, which again just proves 
> my point that there is a hidden agenda to shift the blame away from 
> Israel.  The present tide is in my favor.  Who knows where it will lead. 
> Just imagine if the our modern civilization really came to grips with the 
> horrendous idea that 9/11 was indeed an 'inside job'.  It could mean more 
> than the end of Israel. This is the fear driving the conversation, I 
> think.
>
> I may be actually a friend of Israel in advocating a clean sweep of the 
> people who did this.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:44 PM, Ricky Baldwin <rbaldwin at seiu73.org> 
> wrote:
> This type of thinking is exactly what concerns me, I'm afraid, if you are 
> referring to my skepticism:
>
> "This is very suspicious to me and evidence of a those who do this having 
> a hidden agenda. 9/11 Truthers blame the same 
> people/corporations/governments for the aforementioned list as they blame 
> for the deliberate destruction of the WTC (to start wars, etc).  There is 
> a glaring, obvious inconsistency here."
>
> You are making connections where none exist, like apophenia or cloud 
> watching.  Some of us remember the Slot-n-Wing guy who was at the 
> forefront of the local pro-war counter-demonstrations over on North 
> Prospect in 2003 announcing over his loudspeaker and to the press that we 
> on the anti-war side were all following orders from our "foreign 
> paymasters."  He couldn't understand why we would oppose the invasion of 
> Iraq - and in a sense looked at the question in a similar way to the 
> thought process advocated by our side: cui bono? - but of course that's 
> just suspicion, which as often as not seems to have more to do with 
> prejudice than evidence.
>
> Some people even believe the 9-11 "conspiracy theories" are CIA/FBI/NSA 
> creations to discredit the anti-war movement or distract from the real 
> work of organizing around a clear agenda.  I haven't seen any evidence of 
> this, but it is a similar line of reasoning.
>
> If I could try to clarify my point, Jesse, imagine an allegation, I don't 
> know, that Hitler was being paid by the US Government in long con to end 
> the Depression and stop Communism at the Brandenburg Gate, let's say. 
> There was early praise of Adolf from the later Allies, the US turned away 
> a shipload of Jewish refugees, etc.  The US clearly emerged from WW2 as 
> the world's dominant Superpower, so the *cui bono* question works.  Who 
> lost the most soldiers?  The Soviets.  Most of Europe was relegated to 
> dependency and even the Brits got taken down a notch, from "Empire" to 
> "Former".  But does this mean Hitler was a US puppet?
>
> Look, there's a famous quote supposedly from Hermann Goering as a POW 
> about nobody wanting war and manipulating them by fear and so on.  I 
> happen to doubt its veracity.  I agree with the statement.  I just don't 
> think Goering said it.  Snopes calls it true, but I have my doubts. 
> Doesn't mean I disagree with the goals of the people who repeat it.  I 
> happen to love the quote and really wish it were real.  I don't make a 
> fuss because there isn't much evidence either way, but don't assume that 
> everyone who disagrees with your pet theory is an agent of the dark side 
> or something.
>
> Ricky
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Francis 
> [stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:44 PM
> To: Ricky Baldwin; 
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; 
> occupycu
> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 9/11 Truth, The Elephant in the Room video ....
>
>
> Most of us on these threads agree on the major issues of anti-war, 
> anti-military industrial complex, anti-nuclear, anti-discrimination, 
> anti-1%, anti-Wall Street corruption, anti-GMO, anti-NSA, anti- on and on 
> ... and (oh... congratulations Carol Ammons, by the way).
>
> We bash corporations for their greed, and blame the government for our 
> astronomical debt, but when it comes to 9/11 Truth all of a sudden many 
> are defending the official position (9/11 Commission joke) and going out 
> of their way to diminish the meaning of the events on 9/11.
>
> This is very suspicious to me and evidence of a those who do this having a 
> hidden agenda. 9/11 Truthers blame the same 
> people/corporations/governments for the aforementioned list as they blame 
> for the deliberate destruction of the WTC (to start wars, etc).  There is 
> a glaring, obvious inconsistency here.
>
> I want to make a correction in the Academic Freedom Conference restatement 
> I made the other day.  I said: "Dual Israeli/American citizens, for 
> example, were deeply involved in the ownership, privatization, cleanup, 
> rebuilding, adjudication, victim compensation, investigation and media 
> coverage of the destruction of the WTC complex."
>
> This should have said - Dual Israeli/American citizens, for example, were 
> deeply involved in the ownership, privatization, cleanup, rebuilding, 
> adjudication, emergency management, legislation, military response, 
> investigation, victim compensation and media coverage of the destruction 
> of the WTC complex.
>
> I'm sure you're all tired of my bashing Israel, but I have nowhere else to 
> look, It wasn't the Russians, Chinese, Jesuits, Martians.
>
> The issue is not settled.
>
> Here is more from California.
>
> [sf911truth]
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:04 PM, Ricky Baldwin 
> <rbaldwin at seiu73.org<mailto:rbaldwin at seiu73.org>> wrote:
> I'm afraid the elephant in the room has a dfferent name.  It appears to me 
> that much of the doubt directed at the "official version" of what happened 
> to the Twin Towers and AA77 has a source other than sound reason.
>
>
>
> The circumstantial evidence for this (the doubters who also doubt the 
> Kennedy assassination, the moon walk, the Sandy Hook shootings, the 
> accident that killed Paul Wellstone and other highly dubious doubts, so to 
> speak) is not all, of course.  The view of the world that says every 
> detail must be accounted for fully and satisafctorily by a mundane model, 
> or we must cast the mundane model aside in favor of the fantastic, is 
> troublesome in itself.  And the reasning that, just because the Government 
> lied about some things, they must have lied about everything, is flawed.
>
>
>
> George Bush & Co. told the world that Saddam Hussein maintained "weapons 
> of mass destruction" in 2003.  But once the US invasion and occupation 
> confirmed that this was untrue, the Government admitted that the expected 
> weapons were not there.  Couldn't they have issued a false report, or 
> planted some gas, or at least found a way to remove the UN stickers from 
> the old weapons already catalogued and out of commission?  If this were 
> too difficult for them to pull off, do we seriously believe that the 
> events of Sept. 11, 2001, were easier to fake?
>
>
>
> Not that telling the truth on one item means they will tell the truth on 
> another, either, by any means.  We know that footage of crowds pulling 
> down a statue in Iraq was staged (we have the wider frame shots, the 
> testimony of folks who were there as the shots were set up, etc).  We also 
> know that some of the putative justification for the US attack on Iraq in 
> the 1990's was faked: the testimony of the young girl who supposedly saw 
> Iraqi troops removing Kuwaiti babies from incubators (she was never there, 
> a PR firm paid her, etc.).  But we have nothing even remotely approaching 
> evidence that 9-11 was a hoax, an inside job, or anything other that what 
> it appeared to be: a terrorist attack (with the caveat that the terrorists 
> seem to have been connected to elements originally trained by US agents in 
> Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation).
>
>
>
> The vast majority of argumentation for 9-11 doubt takes the form "Why 
> would x happen?"  This is not evidence.  Ask almost anybody to explain, 
> for example, the weird effects of a tornado or hurricane, and they likely 
> cannot.  This is not evidence of funny business.
>
>
>
> A minority of the argumentation consists of activities such as men in 
> overalls coming into the building over the weekend prior to Sept .11, 
> 2011, which we are supposed to find suspicious.  However, the individuals 
> who say they witnessed these activities say they saw nothing unusual in it 
> at the time.  It is only after the fact that significance seems to adhere 
> to them, like a funny feeling someone may remember having somewhere around 
> the time some terrible event is believed to have happened.  But there is 
> no reason to believe this is not simply confirmational bias (e.g. a song 
> on the radio that suits a mood or circumstance is noticed, while other 
> songs before and after are ignored because they do not seem to fit).
>
>
>
> Who knows?  The World Trade Center may have been destroyed by Bush agents, 
> Israeli agents, extraterrestrials, a "directed energy beam," a "mini black 
> hole," or who knows what.  I can see that such theories are *more 
> interesting* that the apparent answer and subsequent opportunism by Bush 
> et al.  What I cannot see, no matter how many of these videos I watch, is 
> *why any of those explanations is better (or even equally) supported by 
> the evidence* compared to the apparent answer.
>
>
>
> Another common mistake, which may be related to this one, is to dismiss 
> all horror stories, such as the very real evils of the old School of the 
> Americas, extraordinary rendition, and so on, as fantastical "conspiracy 
> theories" of the Roswell type.  We just have to look at the evidence if we 
> don't want to be gullible.
>
>
>
> Ricky
> ________________________________
> From: OccupyCU 
> [occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net><mailto:occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net>>] 
> on behalf of Stephen Francis 
> [stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com><mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com<mailto:stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>>]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 1:03 PM
> To: 
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net><mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>; 
> occupycu
>
> Subject: [OccupyCU] 9/11 Truth, The Elephant in the Room video ....
>
>
> YouTube video<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJoejNkTp4U>, 
> 9/11/Truth<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJoejNkTp4U>
>
> [X]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OccupyCU mailing list
> OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu
> 

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