[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [Peace] PDA Press Release on HJ Res 30

[C. G. Estabrook]

The question I ask - "Will supporting HJ Res 30 help to end or even limit the mass murder the Obama administration is carrying on? Or will it provide a covert authorization for it?" - is not "a question for each person to decide for herself or himself," in the sense of a matter of personal taste, like whether you prefer chocolate or vanilla.

It's a matter of fact that that should be the basis of an ethical and political judgement. --CGE


On Feb 13, 2015, at 8:06 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:

> Carl,
> 
> With friends and family throughout the Southeast (some of whom still
> refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression"), I am well
> aware of the nuances and mythology associated with that  tragic period
> of our nation's history through personal as well as historical
> accounts. I have also read extensively about the origins of the Second
> World War, having relatives and friends in several European countries
> including Germany and Poland, and friends from China and Japan, whose
> accounts of WW2 are at extreme odds with one another, not to mention
> growing up with neighbors who still bore the tattoos of concentration
> camps on their arms. I know enough about WW2 to give me nightmares for
> the rest of my life.
> 
> Did you know that men, who like my father bore a German surname, were
> conscripted and sent to the Pacific front lest they become tempted to
> join their German countrymen in the European fronts? For his service,
> my father contracted hepatitis twice and malaria once and a fungal
> infection that remained throughout his life, and came home forever
> changed and disillusioned by the waste and deceit of war.
> Nevertheless, the U.S. government gave my mother a flag and a 21-gun
> salute when he died. My father-in-law, who was conscripted into the
> German army with his entire high school class, forced to drive a tank,
> captured by the Russians, and spent the winter of 1944 walking back to
> Berlin after escaping his captors (where he would have starved were it
> not for the U.S. food airlifts after the war), was not allowed to have
> his involuntary military service recognized because Germany lost the
> war. He did his duty as faithfully as did my own father and as
> unwillingly, but his service and sacrifice went unrecognized.
> 
> As for your question in par. 4, that is a question for each person to
> decide for herself or himself. The pluralism of our country is a great
> source of strength, and we ought to celebrate it even as others hold
> opinions divergent and abhorrent to our own.
> 
> Each of us on this list strives daily to make the world more peaceful
> in large or small ways, and the fact that we take different paths to
> that goal is to me a source of wonder and assurance.
> 
> For the future,
> Debra
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/13/15, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>> Debra--
>> 
>> It's simply propagandistic to draw contemporary political conclusions from
>> these highly mythologized events from US history. We at least have to give
>> an accurate account of them if we want to draw contemporary parallels - and
>> not rely on what "everybody knows" about the Civil War and Pearl Harbor.
>> 
>> (To begin to get a better account of how the Northern ruling class came to
>> destroy the competing economy of the South, I recommend William Marvel, "Mr.
>> Lincoln Goes to War" [2006]: to begin to get a better account of how Japan
>> came to attack a Pacific military base that the US had recently stolen, I
>> suggest Noam Chomsky, "On the Backgrounds of the Pacific War"
>> <www.chomsky.info/articles/196709--.htm>. On how a populace can be misled
>> into supporting war crimes - as we are today - I suggest "Human Smoke: The
>> Beginnings of World War II, the End of Civilization," a 2008 book by
>> Nicholson Baker about World War II.)
>> 
>> I agree that we as citizens of a putative democracy should be interested in
>> Rep. Lee's bill. AWARE as an organization is meant to be. But the task is to
>> understand the situation accurately, and not be misled into supporting war
>> crimes. (I happened to note in passing that today is the 70th anniversary of
>> the US/UK destruction of Dresden, which killed tens of thousands, mostly
>> women and children.)
>> 
>> But it's not enough to be liberal or progressive or to spark a serious
>> debate. What is important is to do the right thing. Will supporting HJ Res
>> 30 help to end or even limit the mass murder the Obama administration is
>> carrying on? Or will it provide a covert authorization for it?
>> 
>> I agree with the importance of contacting our Congressional representatives.
>> (I too am a frequent correspondent of theirs.) Both our senators are
>> disgustingly pro-war (Sen. Durbin has just formed a Senate group to promote
>> the US-backed killing in Ukraine), and our relatively clueless
>> representative simply repeats the administration's war propaganda (unlike
>> his predecessor).
>> 
>> Regards, Carl
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Debra Schrishuhn via OccupyCU
>> <occupycu at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> And your position is completely legitimate, Carl, although there was
>>> that interlude called the Civil War (and other names) about 150 years
>>> ago, oh, and there was that attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.
>>> 
>>> I merely posted PDA's press release on Rep. Barbara Lee's bill on the
>>> peace list for the information of any who might be interested in it.
>>> Rep. Lee is on PDA's Board and has been ranked the most liberal member
>>> of the U.S. House. She submitted a bill as progressive as she thought
>>> could get serious attention and spark a serious debate about
>>> Congressional war powers, a debate I am sure you would agree is sorely
>>> needed.
>>> 
>>> PDA's position is clearly stated in the press release. It is certainly
>>> your prerogative to disagree with our position. Personally, I plan to
>>> call my representative--Republican Rodney Davis (local office phone is
>>> 403-4690 and DC office is 202-225-2371)--and ask him to support Rep.
>>> Lee's bill. He won't, but he doesn't get to sit as my representative
>>> without hearing my opinions on issues he will be voting on. In fact,
>>> he sent me a letter today regarding an issue I called about recently.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps you should call his office and tell him why he should vote
>>> against Rep. Lee's bill. The more our elected officials hear from us,
>>> the better!
>>> 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> On 2/12/15, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>>> BTW I am a pacifist in the sense that I don't want my country to
>>>> (continue
>>>> to) commit war crimes.
>>>> 
>>>> But I do think a country has a right to resist - in arms, if necessary -
>>>> when it's invaded by a foreign power.
>>>> 
>>>> That hasn't happened to the US since Admiral Cockburn's troops burnt the
>>>> White House and Capitol, two hundred years ago.
>>>> 
>>>> But Obama alone has attacked eight countries (two more than GWBush), and
>>>> resistance was surely warranted.
>>>> 
>>>> --CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Debra Schrishuhn via OccupyCU
>>>> <occupycu at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Carl:
>>>>> 
>>>>> No one is trying to co-opt anything here. HJ Res 30 proposes diplomacy
>>>>> and political solutions over military forays in the Mideast. It is not
>>>>> perfect by a long shot, but it is the least military-oriented of
>>>>> resolutions being proposed in answer to the AUMF. I understand that it
>>>>> is not up to your standards of pacifism. Nevertheless, it may help
>>>>> provoke a real discussion of the range of options available. Not to
>>>>> worry--it does not have a chance to pass this hawkish Congress.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Debra
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/12/15, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>>>>> ANOTHER CO-OPTION OF THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ms. Schrishuhn:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Obama administration continues to murder people throughout the
>>>>>> Mideast
>>>>>> in pursuit of their economic goals, the profits of the 1%.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What does PDA propose as an alternative?  A “comprehensive solution”
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> set
>>>>>> out in H.J.RES. 30?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "... a robust regionally-led, political, economic and diplomatic
>>>>>> strategy”?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What does that mean? Let local armies do the killing and dying on the
>>>>>> ground
>>>>>> while the US continues to kill from the air with planes and drones?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's true fewer Americans die that way, and we kill Middle-easterners
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> think might one day want to do us harm (along with their families and
>>>>>> children), instead of holding them in our wretched prisons until they
>>>>>> become
>>>>>> an international embarrassment.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But H.J.RES. 30 is little more than an authorization for the mass
>>>>>> murder
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Obama administration is currently carrying out in the Mideast.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why not instead bring US troops (and mercenaries) home, close American
>>>>>> bases
>>>>>> in the region, and follow international law by submitting problems
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> ISIL
>>>>>> to the Security Council, as the UN Charter demands?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> President Putin said in Cairo this week, "Regrettably, we must note
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> actions being undertaken today by the members of the anti-terror
>>>>>> coalition,
>>>>>> their strategy and tactics are disproportionate to the scale and
>>>>>> nature
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the existing threat. Airstrikes alone are not enough to deal with it.
>>>>>> What
>>>>>> is more, such actions lack legitimacy since they were not directly
>>>>>> sanctioned by the UN Security Council and in certain cases are taken
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> the consent of states whose territories are being targeted.”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The problem, of course, is that the policy of obeying international
>>>>>> law
>>>>>> would no longer allow the US military to control the flow of energy
>>>>>> resources from the Mideast - which gives the US government an
>>>>>> unparalleled
>>>>>> advantage over its economic rivals in Europe and Asia.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Under these circumstances, the only comprehensive strategy worth
>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>> is a US withdrawal and a submission of the matter to the UNSC.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards, C. G. Estabrook
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2015, at 5:36 PM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace
>>>>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Local PDA members will be delivering letters next week to the
>>>>>>> Springfield offices of Sens Durbin and Kirk; to the Champaign and
>>>>>>> Decatur offices of Rep. Rodney Davis (IL-13); to the Danville office
>>>>>>> of Rep. John Shimkus (IL-15). I will post the full text of our
>>>>>>> letters
>>>>>>> tomorrow. Anyone wishing to sign on to them should contact me at
>>>>>>> deb.pdamerica at gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Deb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>> From: Conor Boylan <conor at pdamerica.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 13:23:28 -0600
>>>>>>> Subject: PDA Press Release on HJ Res 30
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Progressive Democrats of America
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Progressive Democrats Support New Legislation For Comprehensive
>>>>>>> Strategy
>>>>>>> Against ISIL
>>>>>>> *Progressive Democrats of America announces support for Congresswoman
>>>>>>> Lee's
>>>>>>> and congressman Honda's new legislation to establish a comprehensive
>>>>>>> strategy against ISIL and to stop a new American ground war in the
>>>>>>> Middle
>>>>>>> East*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *Feb. 11, 2015 - WASHINGTON -- *Progressive Democrats of America
>>>>>>> (PDA)
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> endorsing the “Comprehensive Solution to ISIL Resolution” (H.J.RES.
>>>>>>> 30),
>>>>>>> introduced on February 10th of 2015 by Congresswoman Barbara Lee
>>>>>>> (CA-13).
>>>>>>> PDA supporters will deliver 100s of letters to Congressional offices,
>>>>>>> urging Representatives to vote for this resolution, and other
>>>>>>> progressive
>>>>>>> priorities next week.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Progressive Democrats of America National Director Conor Boylan said,
>>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>> United States has had large-scale military involvement in Iraq and
>>>>>>> Afghanistan for over a decade. What is the result of all of this
>>>>>>> effort?
>>>>>>> The spreading of terrorism, the death of thousands of Americans, the
>>>>>>> death
>>>>>>> of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, Afghanis, and others throughout
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> region; while leaving the Middle East unstable with millions of
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> refugee camps, loss of trillions of dollars to the U.S. economy, no
>>>>>>> significant lasting contribution to civil society in this region and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> potential for an endless cycle of war that could spread to other
>>>>>>> nations."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Boylan added, "The time has come for a comprehensive strategy to stop
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> endless war in the Middle East. PDA strongly opposes sacrificing more
>>>>>>> blood
>>>>>>> of men and women of the United States Armed Forces through a new war
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Middle East. We cannot continue to request life sacrifices of
>>>>>>> military
>>>>>>> personnel, aid workers, journalists, and others over battles that
>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>> ground troops should not have to fight, over resources that are not
>>>>>>> ours
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> control, and over disagreements that could be handled using
>>>>>>> diplomacy,
>>>>>>> economics, and politics, rather than bullets and bombs."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PDA Advisory Board Member Congressman Jim McGovern (MA-02) said, “I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> troubled by the Administration’s request, which I believe is far too
>>>>>>> open-ended and does little to constrain this or the next
>>>>>>> Administration
>>>>>>> from engaging in sustained combat.  We should be doing much more to
>>>>>>> promote
>>>>>>> a legitimate and lasting political solution in the region.”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PDA Advisory Board Member Congresswoman Barbara Lee (CA-13) said,
>>>>>>> “[W]e
>>>>>>> must be comprehensive in our strategy. National security experts have
>>>>>>> clearly stated that there is no military solution to ISIL. In order
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> ultimately degrade and dismantle ISIL, we must craft a robust
>>>>>>> regionally-led, political, economic and diplomatic strategy.”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PDA invites all Americans to join the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS OF
>>>>>>> AMERICA
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> calling for real and lasting solutions to this conflict and to OPPOSE
>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>> NEW
>>>>>>> AMERICAN GROUND WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST. PDA asks all Americans to
>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>> their member of Congress and ask them to cosponsor and vote for H.J.
>>>>>>> RES.
>>>>>>> 30.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For more information please see: www.pdamerica.org and visit the
>>>>>>> Educate
>>>>>>> Congress page, or contact PDA directly at info at pdamerica.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *Media Contact*
>>>>>>> Conor Boylan, Progressive Democrats of America
>>>>>>> 206-965-0802
>>>>>>> conor at pdamerica.org
>>>>>>> <http://www.prlog.org/email-contact.html#12424459>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Conor Boylan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> National Co-Director
>>>>>>> *•* Progressive Democrats of America *•*PDAmerica.org *•
>>>>>>> *PDAcommunity.org
>>>>>>> Hey you! Yes, YOU! Have you signed? -->http://bit.ly/RunBernieRun
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ___________
>>