[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Can I Count On You?

[C. G. Estabrook]

“God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America’s Middle Eastern policy and anyone who wants to mess with that  is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.”
--John LeCarré, London Times, January 15, 2003


> On Jul 1, 2015, at 12:22 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I hesitate to break into this dialog, but I must say that I’m on Carl’s side here: I was sorely disappointed, indeed angered, by not only Carol’s non-vote on the BDS issue in the legislature, but even more so by her silence since that time. Have I missed something? I had emailed her about it, but had no response. Is that because she could have no good excuse for her non-vote?
> 
> My few cents:  Mort
>  
>> On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> That's a good one!  I don't speak for Carol Ammons, but I'm sure that she, like the rest of us, usually chooses where she walks to and from at any given time, how to spend her time and energy, etc.  (I didn't see many people spending their time and energy demonstrating against this bill!)  But you assume the rest, which is to say, you assume an awful lot (e.g. that she allegedly received "instructions from her party" of all things - which is of course absurd if you've observed anything related, because she does not take "instructions from her party" on other issues, and was as anyone who pays attention would know actively and vigorously opposed by her party leaders in her election, which she won handily -- or I should say, we won, because we put her there without and in many ways against Madigan et al.  So why should you assume she would "take instructions" on this issue?  Is she beholden to those who failed to defeat her?  Just how big an assumption do you expect us to swallow? )  
>> 
>> We should spend our time and energy organizing and mobilizing around the principles and tactics we believe to be worthwhile and effective to get something done instead of sitting back and criticizing over symbolic votes or symbolic statements on insular email lists.
>> 
>> By the way, do you really expect us to believe that Carol had your enthusiastic support before, and somehow lost you over one vote on a losing bill, or that you did not plan to support the Green candidate anyway?  Please.
>>  
>> Ricky 
>> 
>> 
>> "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 9:25 AM, "'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core]" <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> I’ll wait for her statement that she made a mistake and meant to vote no. 
>> 
>> “…outside the chamber” is pretty weak. If she was, she meant to be.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2015, at 8:05 AM, Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I believe the only mystery is in your mind.  She stepped outside.  If you want to discuss it you have only to do so as a human being would.
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> From:"C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>> Date:Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:31 PM
>>> Subject:Re: [sf-core] [Peace-discuss] Can I Count On You?
>>> 
>>> Her constituents deserve to know “the true situation.”
>>> 
>>> And we should vote only for representatives who will tell us. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > On Jun 30, 2015, at 5:43 PM, Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Nope.  I'm saying the true situation is not so obvious as you suggest.
>>> > 
>>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> > 
>>> > From:"'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core]" <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>
>>> > Date:Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:38 PM
>>> > Subject:Re: [sf-core] [Peace-discuss] Can I Count On You?
>>> > 
>>> >  
>>> > Are you saying she would have voted no, had she only known?
>>> > 
>>> > If so, I’d like to hear that from her.
>>> > 
>>> > I don’t believe it.
>>> > 
>>> > —CGE
>>> > 
>>> > > On Jun 30, 2015, at 2:13 PM, Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Hm. I checked. Apparently she was outside the chamber when the vote was called.
>>> > >  
>>> > > Ricky 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 1:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Yes. I’ve had no response, public or private.
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > > On Jun 30, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > Did you ask her why she voted NV?
>>> > > >  
>>> > > > Ricky Baldwin
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > "Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 12:37 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > Carol—
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > You can count on me to support the principles that I thought you supported.
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > After another day of Israeli piracy (ignored by Obama), I will be supporting the Green party nominee for the state representative seat from this area - someone who would have voted against SB 1761, rather than acquiescing to the neocon (and neoliberal) Democrat party's dictates. 
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > I await your apology.
>>> > > > 
>>> > > > --C. G. Estabrook
>>> > > > 
>>> > > >> On Jun 29, 2015, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ammons for State Representative <Campaign at CarolAmmonsforStateRep.emailnb.com> wrote:
>>> > > >> 
>>> > > >> Carol Ammons for State Representative
>>> > > >> 
>>> > > >> Dear Carl -- 
>>> > > >> 
>>> > > >> These last 6 months have been a whirlwind of listening, learning, and advocating in Springfield and once again, thank you for your support and confidence in me.  
>>> > > >> 
>>> > > >> Although it may feel like the campaign just ended, it's already time to start planning and preparing for the 2016 election and this coming election cycle will be critical. We must keep as many democrats in office as possible to protect against the attacks on our unions, our social services, and who knows what else to come. That is why I am asking you to donate $5 today because every dollar counts...
>>> > > >>