[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Awareness of U.S. war-making, 2015.39

C. G. Estabrook carl at newsfromneptune.com
Mon Sep 28 12:31:04 EDT 2015


Maybe McCoy, but that’s not the issue.

> On Sep 28, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> And, who is forgiving?
>  
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:57:16 -0500
> To: karenaram at hotmail.com <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>
> CC: peace-discuss at anti-war.net <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; mkb3 at icloud.com <mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com>; occupycu at lists.chambana.net <mailto:occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Awareness of U.S. war-making, 2015.39
> From: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> 
> What the "greatest purveyor of violence in the world today” is doing is more important that what an elderly academic (McCoy’s my age) might think. 
> 
> What Aquinas said of philosophy is also true of history: “the purpose of the study of philosophy is not to learn what others have thought, but to learn how the truth of things stands."
> 
> Does the truth of things stand as Beams (and Lenin) suggest?
> 
> Certainly it’s true that "American imperialism seeks to assert geo-political and military domination over East Asia” - but that’s been true for well over a century, as William Appleman Williams pointed out more than half a century ago. (See Secretary of State John Hay’s "Open Door Note," dated September 6, 1899, sent to European states.) “Freedom of navigation” is as disingenuous a slogan as “Open Door” itself was. (Personal side note: my maternal grandfather was a bit player in that drama. When he graduated from Annapolis in 1907 his ship was sent to China in the last days of the Qing dynasty, where he rode horseback along the Great Wall; I wasn’t to see the Great Wall until more than a century later.)   
> 
> Given the Obama administration’s outrageous provocation over Ukraine, it’s all too believable that it is “reviewing and updating its contingency plans for armed conflict with Russia.”
> 
> "Starting with the Gulf War in 1990–91, when it seized upon the liquidation of the Soviet Union to attack Iraq and attempted to exert its military domination over the Middle East [obviously that attempt began far earlier], American imperialism has been engaged in continuous warfare in the region … there has been an inherent logic at work—the prospect of a major military conflict involving Russia and possibly other great powers … there is a real and growing danger of military conflict,” even if it’s not entirely the case that "the aim of the US is to oust the Syrian regime, whereas Russia considers its maintenance, with or without Assad, to be vital for its own security interests in the region and beyond.” The USG goals in the region remain remarkably consistent, in service to the economic hegemony of the US 1%, but the tactics are more flexible than many of its critics (of various political persuasions) seem to realize. (Cf. the so-called Iran deal, which is not about nukes so much as the enhancement of US control over Persian Gulf energy flows.) 
> 
> As I suggested by comparison with European politics ca. 1940, a political leader may look like a grandmaster at some point, but the task is to understand what he’s doing (and usually try to stop it) rather than standing by in admiration. To understand all is not necessarily to forgive all. 
> 
> —CGE
> 
> On Sep 28, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>  I find it difficult to believe that McCoy, a prodigious researcher, with a specialty related to SE Asia, who having exposed the lies, torture, and drug running, of the CIA and US government, would now be positive towards Obama in his critique of the "Grandmaster", not a positive title given the others who have worn it.
> I believe he was writing in irony in opposition to the constant right wing lamentations of Obama as "weak" and "ineffectual" as regards foreign policy. Would "TomDispatch" have published it if they hadn't viewed it with irony? Or perhaps there is so much fear of the right wing GOP nonsense that the lesser of evils looks good to them?
>  
> I contend the lesser evil, is the greater evil, and as a result does deserve the Grandmaster title, but the picture of the future as painted in McCoys recent article is likely a dream.
>  
> Following is an article coming from the "left" by Nick Beams, summing up the situation in Eurasia as some of us see it. I have deleted the final paragraphs preferring only the facts of the situation. 
> War clouds loom over UN General Assembly by Nick Beams
> 
> 28 September 2015 
> 
> The United Nations was established in 1945 with proclamations that it would guarantee an era of peace, by serving to regulate and contain the conflicts between the major powers that had resulted in two devastating world wars in the space of a single generation.
> Seventy years on, as the UN General Assembly meets this week, it is abundantly clear that the course of events is not proceeding according to the pronouncements that accompanied the organisation’s founding. Rather, they are confirming the analysis of Vladimir Lenin, who insisted in the midst World War I that it was inherently impossible under capitalism to end war. The contradictions between the major powers meant that any peace between them was but a temporary interlude and preparation for a new war.
> Dominating the proceedings at this year’s annual General Assembly are a series of international geo-political flashpoints, any one of which could set off a military conflict between major powers leading rapidly to a new world war, likely involving the use of nuclear weapons.
> There is the ongoing and intensifying conflict between the United States and China, as American imperialism seeks to assert geo-political and military domination over East Asia under the banner of its “pivot to Asia.” The US and its allies have stepped up pressure against China over its land reclamation activities in the South China Sea under the fraudulent slogan of “freedom of navigation.” Behind this benign-sounding phrase, the US pursues military operations off the Chinese coast and refines its Air/Sea Battle Plan for massive attacks on the Chinese mainland.
> Just last week, US President Obama and Chinese President Xi held a tension-filled meeting at the White House at which the American commander in chief repeated Washington’s demand that China back off from its long-standing claims to islands in the South China Sea. His Chinese counterpart balked at making any such commitment. Both leaders will address the General Assembly.
> Also present will be leaders of Japan, which is rapidly moving to remilitarise and reassert its great power ambitions in East Asia and beyond, and the Philippines, which is serving as Washington’s cat’s paw against China in the South China Sea.
> On the other side of the Eurasian landmass, NATO, under the leadership of the United States, is building up its forces against Russia. The forthcoming US-NATO Trident 2015 War Juncture, set to be the largest NATO exercises in the region since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, will prepare Western forces for war operations in the Baltic region and beyond.
> For the first time since the liquidation of the USSR, the US is reported to be “reviewing and updating its contingency plans for armed conflict with Russia.”
> Starting with the Gulf War in 1990–91, when it seized upon the liquidation of the Soviet Union to attack Iraq and attempted to exert its military domination over the Middle East, American imperialism has been engaged in continuous warfare in the region. Through all the twists and turns of American policy, the various military campaigns and the debacles they have produced, there has been an inherent logic at work—the prospect of a major military conflict involving Russia and possibly other great powers.
> As the UN General Assembly got underway, this prospect loomed larger with France’s announcement that it had commenced bombing in Syria, potentially directed against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad as well as ISIS. France’s escalation comes in the midst of Russia’s reinforcement of its military support for Assad.
> Last week, the Obama administration said that in view of reports of expanded Russian military aid to the Syrian regime, it would hold talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the UN assembly to “test” Russia’s intentions in the region. The talks are to take place the same day Putin addresses the General Assembly and advances his plan for a political settlement of the devastating four-year civil war stoked by Washington.
> Behind the discussion, there is a real and growing danger of military conflict, given that the aim of the US is to oust the Syrian regime, whereas Russia considers its maintenance, with or without Assad, to be vital for its own security interests in the region and beyond. 
>  
> WSWS
>  
>  
>  
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:27:40 -0500
> To: carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> CC: peace-discuss at anti-war.net <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; occupyCU at lists.chambana.net <mailto:occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Awareness of U.S. war-making, 2015.39
> From: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> 
> McCoy proposed a scenario which I could fear if I really gave credence to it. I was surprised to find it recommended by @Tom Dispatch.  I agree largely with Carl’s characterization; "This account will be defended as an 'objective' account in the neorealist tradition of 'international relations,' but - in addition to ethical complacency - it shows a remarkable overestimation of the success of its heroes. Strangely enough, …” 
> 
> I especially admired the epithet "ethical complacency”.
> 
> It seemed to me more what imperialist realists want to achieve rather than what could be achieved, as if there were no other factors/actors at work in the international arena. It seemed somewhat smug. I didn’t know whether it was intended to be ironic. 
> 
> Should I read it again?
> 
> 
> On Sep 27, 2015, at 9:39 AM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> AWARENESS of U.S. War-Making, for the 39th week of 2015
> ============================================
> from the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana
> 
> (roughly 300 words/day)
> 
> ~ ALFRED W. MCCOY, a liberal historian (author of the justly acclaimed THE POLITICS OF HEROIN IN SOUTHEAST ASIA [1972], about the CIA’s drug-dealing around the world) has written a problematic piece entitled “Barack Obama Is a Foreign Policy Grandmaster” that has appeared simultaneously in The Nation (a liberal publication) and The American Conservative, as well as the Huffington Post and elsewhere. McCoy argues that “The president has executed a subtle geopolitical strategy with the potential to extend American empire well into the 21st century.” This account will be defended as an 'objective' account in the neorealist tradition of 'international relations,' but - in addition to ethical complacency - it shows a remarkable overestimation of the success of its heroes. Strangely enough, in addition to Obama, McCoy’s heroes are Zbigniew Brzezinski (who invented modern jihadism) and Elihu Root (a corporation lawyer who as Secretary of War presided over the brutal US war in the Philippines, and - when another lying Democratic president, Woodrow Wilson, tricked an antiwar America into World War I - said critics of Wilson’s war should be shot for treason). To call Obama a 'foreign policy grandmaster' is a fulsome way to acknowledge that his foreign policy is a continuation and indeed an intensification of more than a century of imperial crimes by the US executive.
> 
> ~ PERRY ANDERSON has offered a far better account in the first part of a two-part interview with a pompous journalist from Salon, where he assesses Carter and Brzezinski:
> "[President Carter] appointed Zbigniew Brzezinski as national security adviser, on whom he relied throughout his presidency. Brzezinski was in many ways brighter than Kissinger, in later years an overrated showman not particularly interesting as a thinker. Brzezinski’s cold, brittle mind was a good deal sharper. He was also as much, if not more, of a hawk than Kissinger had been. 
> "His masterstroke was funding religious and tribal resistance to the Communist regime in Afghanistan well before any Soviet troops were there, with the clear-cut and entirely successful aim of making the country the Vietnam of the USSR. There followed the Carter Doctrine, which put the U.S. into the military emplacements in the Gulf, where it remains today, while the president was toasting the Shah as a close personal friend and pillar of human rights. 
> "To top it off, with Brzezinski at his elbow again, Carter patronized and protected Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, keeping them at the U.N. as the legitimate government of Cambodia, as part of the deal with China for its attack on Vietnam.
> "In the Middle East, the peace treaty between Sadat and Begin is generally credited to Carter. Its precondition, however, was the double rescue of Israel and of Egypt by Nixon and Kissinger in the 1973 war, which put both countries into the palm of the American hand. What was the regional upshot? Sadat ditched the Palestinians and became a well-funded U.S. client, Begin secured an ally on Israel’s southern flank and the Egyptians got the tyranny of Sadat, Mubarak and now Sisi for the next 40 years. Yet to this day Carter gushes over Sadat, a torturer whose memory is loathed by his people, as a wonderful human being. 
> "What is nevertheless true is that with all his weaknesses—and worse—Carter was a contradictory figure, who, once he was ousted from office, behaved more decently than any other ex-president in recent memory. Today, he’s almost a pariah because of what he says on Israel. One can respect him for that."
> 
> ~ MAX BLUMENTHAL has published THE 51 DAY WAR; RUIN AND RESISTANCE IN GAZA. Author of the important 2013 account, GOLIATH: LIFE AND LOATHING IN GREATER ISRAEL, Blumenthal now reports on Israel’s assault on Gaza in July 2014. His book can be compared to Norman Finkelstein’s METHOD AND MADNESS: THE HIDDEN STORY OF ISRAEL'S ASSAULTS ON GAZA. They make untenable any notion that it was a war and not a massacre - aided by the US.
> 
> ~ “WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT ISIS?” How about following international law? The UN Charter (to which of course the US is a signatory) sets out in chapter 7 the UN Security Council's powers to maintain peace. It allows the Council to "determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression" and to take military and nonmilitary action to "restore international peace and security.” The UN Charter's prohibition of member states of the UN attacking other UN member states is central to the purpose for which the UN was founded in the wake of the destruction of World War II. ISIS, whatever the responsibility of the Obama administration for its existence, should not become an excuse for further US killing in the pursuit of imperial goals. Withdraw US troops, mercs, and bases from the Mideast and follow the Charter’s requirements (which the US has flouted notably since Clinton’s attack on Serbia). 
> 
> ~ CHARLIE ROSE: As you know, some of the coalition partners [sic] want to see President Assad go first before they will support.
> RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN: I'd like to recommend to them the following: They should send this message to the Syrian people. It's only the Syrian people who are entitled to decide who should govern their country and how.
> 
> ~ RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV comments appositively as follows:
> “Nowadays, you know, our Western partners [the leading EU states], primarily under the influence, perhaps, of American mentality, are losing in general the culture of a dialogue and the culture of achieving diplomatic solutions. The Iranian nuclear program was a bright – and even very bright – exception. In most other cases – in conflicts that continue to flare up in the Middle East, in North Africa – they try to resort to measures of military intervention, as was the case in Iraq and Libya, in violation of UN Security Council decisions, or to resort to sanctions.”
> 
> ~ DONALD TRUMP MADE A SURPRISE APPEAL TO REASON FRIDAY, after months of all the Republican presidential candidates trying to out hawk one another. He said he didn’t support “starting World War III over Syria” and that if Russia wants to fight ISIS in that country, the US should let them do it ... the fact that anyone in the Republican field is willing to entertain something short of random, heedless escalation is certainly novel, given the state of the last few months, and that it is a front-runner like Trump suggests that polls showing growing war-weariness among American voters is finally starting to attract some political attention. [Jason Ditz]
> 
> ~ TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT is the Greatest Spectacle on Earth—or at least on Fox News. Who else has shredded Roger Ailes on his own network? What other Republican has defended single-payer health care? Derided Citizens’ United? Inveighed against global trade pacts? Denounced the Iraq War as an act of unparalleled stupidity? Aggressively pushed a progressive taxation model? It’s as if Trump has stepped right off the pages of Ralph Nader’s Dickensian romp of a novel, Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us Now.
> But is the Donald really a class traitor? Hardly. Trump is a post-modern Nero, without the facility for poetry. He is the new master of wrecking ball politics, the rich boy with an ego as big as the Ritz, who delights in busting things up to clear space for pleasure domes for the global elite. The broken lives left behind are just the cost of the deal. In this high stake game there’s only one rule for survival: Find a scapegoat and move on. [Jeffrey St Clair]
> 
> ~ BERNIE SANDERS supported Clinton’s illegal bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, a stance which caused one of his staffers to resign in protest. He supports continued drone strikes, with which Obama has already killed more than 6,000 people, with no end in sight. He supports Israel’s continued violence against the Palestinian people.
> Nevertheless Noam Chomsky has said, it seems to me correctly, “I’m glad that Sanders is running. A good way to bring important ideas and facts to people. His candidacy might also press the Dems a little in a progressive direction. In our system of bought elections he has scarcely a chance of getting beyond the primaries, and even if by some miracle he were elected he wouldn’t be able to do anything, lacking any congressional representatives, governors, etc. As far as I can see he’s a thorn in the side of the Clinton machine, which is not a bad thing.”
> 
> ~ SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS added a few words to his presidential campaign website about the 96% of humanity he'd been ignoring, [but] the statement does lack some key ingredients. Should the United States be spending a trillion dollars a year and over half of discretionary spending on militarism? Should it cut that by 50%, increase it by 30%, trim it by 3%? We really can't tell from this statement insisting on the need for major military spending while admitting the harm it does ... Drones are not mentioned. Special forces are not mentioned. Foreign bases are not mentioned. The only hint he gives about future action in Iraq or Syria suggests that he would continue to use the military to make things worse ... an American suffering under the delusion that the war [in Afghanistan] had already been ended ... can't tell whether Sanders would choose to take any sort of action to end it in reality ... He supports the Iran agreement while pushing false claims about "Iran developing nuclear weapons." He criticizes "both sides" in Palestine, but says not one word about cutting off free weaponry or international legal protection for Israel -- or for any other governments. The Pope's call to end the arms trade, which the United States leads, goes unmentioned. He mentions nuclear weapons, but only the nonexistent ones belonging to Iran, not those of the United States or Israel or any other nation. Disarmament is not an agenda item here. And how could it be when he declares, in violation of the U.N. Charter, in his first paragraph that "force must always be an option"? ... Sanders claims, absurdly, that he has only supported wars that were a "last resort." He includes among those, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, despite neither having been remotely a last resort. 
> Sanders admits as much, saying, "I supported the use of force to stop the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans." Set aside the fact that it increased the ethnic cleansing and that diplomacy was not really attempted, what he is claiming is a philanthropic mission, not a "last resort." Sanders also says, "And, in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001, I supported the use of force in Afghanistan to hunt down the terrorists who attacked us." Set aside the Taliban's offer to transfer Osama bin Laden to a third country to be tried, what Sanders is describing is hunting and murdering people in a distant land, not a "last resort" -- and also not what he voted for, and Rep. Barbara Lee voted against, which was a blank check for endless war at presidential discretion.
> All of this obviously leaves open the possibility of endless global war. [Contrast this with what Green party presidential candidate] Jill Stein would say: “Establish a foreign policy based on diplomacy, international law, and human rights. End the wars and drone attacks, cut military spending by at least 50% and close the 700+ foreign military bases that are turning our republic into a bankrupt empire. Stop U.S. support and arms sales to human rights abusers, and lead on global nuclear disarmament." [David Swanson]
> 
> ~ DAVID GILL is running for Congress in Illinois’ 13th district in opposition to the incumbent Rodney Davis. He’s running as an independent, but Monday night he met with the local Green party and pledged that if elected he would follow the practice of former Representative Tim Johnson, of not voting for any money for US war in the Mideast, including weapons for Israel, etc. (Johnson, a Republican and originally a supporter of US Mideast wars, came to oppose them, and signed the resolution for George Bush’s impeachment, as well as joining a bipartisan suit against the illegal US attack on Libya; unfortunately his Republican successor lacks his perspicacity.) Party identifications mean little in regard to support for Obama’s wars. Davis, a fervent supporter, is a Republican; the Democrats have yet to name a candidate, but s/he’s unlikely to oppose Obama’s killing. Gill, who has run for this seat as a Democrat, now opposes the world-wide war making that Obama tries to get Americans to ignore. His opponents probably won’t. 
> 
> ~ NOAM CHOMSKY: “Look around the country. This country is falling apart. Even when you come back from Argentina to the United States it looks like a third world country, and when you come back from Europe even more so. The infrastructure is collapsing. Nothing works. The transportation system doesn’t work. The health system is a total scandal–twice the per capita cost of other countries and not very good outcomes. Point by point. The schools are declining...” 
> 
> ~ "TIME, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS, seems to be running out; we are not yet tearing one another apart, but we are tearing apart our common home. Today, the scientific community realizes what the poor have long told us: harm, perhaps irreversible harm, is being done to the ecosystem. The earth, entire peoples and individual persons are being brutally punished. And behind all this pain, death and destruction there is the stench of what Basil of Caesarea called 'the dung of the devil’ - an unfettered pursuit of money rules. The service of the common good is left behind. Once capital becomes an idol and guides people’s decisions, once greed for money presides over the entire socioeconomic system, it ruins society, it condemns and enslaves men and women, it destroys human fraternity, it sets people against one another and, as we clearly see, it even puts at risk our common home.” [Francis, bishop of Rome]
> 
> ###
> 
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>> 
> Reply via web post <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_messages_5808-253b-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJwOWQyNThxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzU4MDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxNDQzMzY0ODA2-3Fact-3Dreply-26messageNum-3D5808&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=g0ugfngq5kvrqeL3U8upQ5pUeJ9xg532l1ISMFPGfkU&e=>	•	Reply to sender  <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com?subject=Re%3A%20Awareness%20of%20U%2ES%2E%20war-making%2C%202015%2E39>	•	Reply to group  <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Awareness%20of%20U%2ES%2E%20war-making%2C%202015%2E39>	•	Start a New Topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_newtopic-253b-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlc3ZtZTNyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzM2NDgwNg-2D-2D&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=9jB1CuBLzcz5ky68gAJ1dtLqdCwIkVsVbEm9mthqIwI&e=>	•	Messages in this topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_topics_5736-253b-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTM0dDZubmFmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzU4MDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDQzMzY0ODA2BHRwY0lkAzU3MzY-2D&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=KMof_IDhzPzylYoUqBjmi6E0UKqB7ctEZp0ubkX1JRo&e=> (12)
> VISIT YOUR GROUP <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_info-253b-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlbWw4YW51BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ0MzM2NDgwNg-2D-2D&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=xi9Fddyx6hJmvL3aXWErkD9t0AEq33u_xTAkjQqSzaM&e=>
>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo-253b-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJkMm9odWRlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDQzMzY0ODA2&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=aJKrRTaw1zkTPjPTFrv3cLGnW0eScOdvWVLR1VCCeeU&e=>
> • Privacy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__info.yahoo.com_privacy_us_yahoo_groups_details.html&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=rEaj6CcyqoKlVHFI9Dg9pv_BxRTnpMtTM3V1Q3Ym0aE&e=> • Unsubscribe <mailto:sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> • Terms of Use <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__info.yahoo.com_legal_us_yahoo_utos_terms_&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=7U3YOoicQT1OniY5o6jwAr3e_4US_ZA2sG8fiMV-cKI&e=>
> .
>  
> 
> __,_._,___
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace-2Ddiscuss&d=AwMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=K_VYysYCXC_H-FL0SnKH7jrdaDfSncFI83mw_aVrxRk&s=HirCGIMxCVoGnaJS4BZ9Jx7H94NT2T3vg6_hOG9zN5M&e=>
> 
> _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>_______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20150928/0bb55e10/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Peace-discuss mailing list