[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Against hysteria

Thu Dec 22 18:54:49 UTC 2016

Belden, Deb, Mort, et al.,
I am in agreement with Carl's and Cockburn's criticism of the SPLC, and have been for some time. To me it is similar and related to the manner in which the Anti-Defamation League became a hate group according to its own criteria, hat tip Steven Salaita. The manner in which the Zionism/anti-Semitism issue is treated in both contexts has for some time been a huge red flag regarding the compromised, distractive, liberal, hypocritical political agenda of these groups; albeit less obvious and blatant for the SPLC then ADL. 
And those with a truly radical race/class agenda (Black Agenda Report) have no time whatsoever for beating up on the KKK, etc.
And of course not a world from the SPLC/ADL, to my knowledge, about our wars; I guess that's above their pay grade. Anyway, you can kill lots of people without even hating on them.
The juxtaposition of Carl's letter with that of Inge Karliner was just perfect; Inge is about as simple-minded a liberal anti-hater as one can find, and she has on more than one occasion publicly accused me of being an anti-Semite, just because I suggest that Jews should discuss Israel, Zionism, etc. in a more straightforward manner. But of course, such a discussion would be "singling out" Israel. So let's single out the KKK instead.
And Cockburn well-proved that the SPLC sits on mountains of cash that is not used to even "fight hate." He did similar fact-based journalism on the illegal spying activities of the ADL.
I have no doubt that there are some benefits to "teaching tolerance," the SPLC's signature program. But I'm too much of a materialist to think that racist attitudes explain the foundations of our situation, or lead to constructive solutions. I volunteer in a beautiful rainbow 3rd grade classroom; they quite naturally know not to hate, but they don't have a clue (yet) who is out to make their lives hell, and likely will, sadly, whether it had been Trump or HRC to lead the charge.
I find a lot of liberal, pro-Clinton rhetoric right now to be rather hateful in its own right, especially regarding the "white working class." We need to get back to a class analysis that places the "blame" where it rightfully belongs: capitalists behaving like capitalists, especially neoliberal capitalists. Out of that will come an appropriate critique of what Trump is about to do, at least domestically, and attract those WWC voters who would rather have voted for Sanders; not that the Democrats will ever allow a truly enlightened response to neoliberal capitalism.
Which leaves us with the same old same old: "socialism or barbarism."
DG

    On Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:05 PM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

 #yiv0663026083 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible. 
Belden

From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
Debra

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
—CGE

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
Debra

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
—mkb

On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/

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