[Peace-discuss] Join fifty urging Champaign County Dems to back Keith Ellison for DNC

Mon Nov 21 17:31:47 UTC 2016

“...a key determinant of whether a project is useful or not is how many people support it…” 

You can’t mean that. What would it imply about “useful projects” in, say, 1933 Germany? 

Or about the US attack on SE Asia fifty years ago, before the anti-war movement reversed popular support for it?

—CGE

> On Nov 21, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> David, I don't think that the framework that you're proposing as the basis of progress is useful. What I hear you saying is that first I must try to convince everyone to have my worldview, including my view that Democratic Party reform efforts are useful. Once I've successfully completed that essentially ideological task, then I may be permitted to propose particular reformist projects. 
> 
> I don't think that's how the world works. I think that the way the world works is that I don't need the permission of the ultra-left to propose reformist projects. Instead, the way the world works is that I just propose whatever reformist project I want, and then people support the project or don't support the project, according to whether they like the idea of the project or not. 
> 
> And this is a sensible framework, because a key determinant of whether a project is useful or not is how many people support it. You can go off by yourself and come up with a very beautiful strategy. You can convince yourself that if only everyone would do X, the system would collapse and it would be all unicorns and ponies. But if you can't get people to do X, it doesn't matter. 
> 
> Now, there's considerable evidence that as a national project, the Keith Ellison => DNC thing is a going proposition. It's supported by Bernie Sanders/Our Revolution, which generated hundreds of thousands of signatures on a petition. It's supported by CWA and National Nurses United, the two most important labor unions that backed Bernie in the primary. 
> 
> Given that this is what is happening nationally, it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do locally. We have a bunch of people in the local Democratic Party who supported Bernie in the primary. The vote in Champaign County was two to one Bernie over Hillary. So it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do here. Are we building a thing nationally. Is the Sanders-Warren-Ellison thing a thing. One thing that makes a thing a thing is whether you have to start over from scratch each time. When we started the Bernie thing, the Green Party people and the ultra-left attacked us, just like they are attacking us on the Ellison thing now. So one of the questions going forward is can we get through the phase of being attacked by the Green Party/ultra-left faster, so we can move on to other things, instead of having to fight this battle each time we propose a new idea. 
> 
> One of the reasons I like doing petitions at MoveOn is that the cost of participation is very low. So, you can test ideas for support without asking people to commit to a lot, which allows you to test more ideas. Like, if I help organize a demonstration that's two hours away and ask people to come, that's a high bar for participation. I'm asking people to give up six hours of their lives. Most people will set a high bar for that, most of the time. If people don't agree to come, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't support the cause. It might just mean that the participation bar was too high for them. 
> 
> But signing and sharing a petition at MoveOn - that takes you five seconds. 
> 
> @ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair
> http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__petitions.moveon.org_sign_champaigncodems-2Dback-3Fr-5Fby-3D1135580&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ZLRAOgn6tnXutlGRZK14aQVX5uOktsB0uQRhQSDysfk&s=TEf1zpx5CqGE2MogiSHsNtqAokcATMrpf_WWxQne6OI&e=>
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> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ZLRAOgn6tnXutlGRZK14aQVX5uOktsB0uQRhQSDysfk&s=PQnSmlA0cXXTjdq2IyjMGlq85FyT1pmEma2GhAohot4&e=>
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> Bob, what makes you think that an effort to "reform" the Democratic Party can be successful, given the corporate nature of that party?
> 
> 
> On Monday, November 21, 2016 7:53 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> As of this morning, fifty-one signers. 
> 
> http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__petitions.moveon.org_sign_champaigncodems-2Dback-3Fr-5Fby-3D1135580&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ZLRAOgn6tnXutlGRZK14aQVX5uOktsB0uQRhQSDysfk&s=TEf1zpx5CqGE2MogiSHsNtqAokcATMrpf_WWxQne6OI&e=>
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> If you support Jill Stein and the Green Party, go stand by Carl Estabrook. 
> 
> If you support Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Keith Ellison, come stand by me. 
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=ZLRAOgn6tnXutlGRZK14aQVX5uOktsB0uQRhQSDysfk&s=H5Ijj4V67d5fFylOwxHbt5gva7B9fSTszxtnhHWzTXw&e=>
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> (202) 448-2898 x1 <tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1>
> 
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