[Peace-discuss] Join fifty urging Champaign County Dems to back Keith Ellison for DNC

Tue Nov 22 11:47:17 UTC 2016

“ My analysis of this is: the AFL and the organizations that run with the AFL are lying. They're not just lying to us; they're lying to their own members.”

Nothing new there Bob. For a change I agree with you.

“ They're lying to cover up the fact that we gave the pro-Hillary labor leaders a perfect opportunity in the Democratic Platform Committee to force Obama to back down on the TPP and they blew it, basically because they were cowards in not standing up to Obama. “

Again, partially correct. They are not so much cowards as collaborationists.

“ And, I think they were cowards in not standing up to Obama because they got habituated to being cowards in such a situation, and they got habituated to the fact that they're never held accountable by their own members or anyone else for being cowards in such a situation. “

They became habituated collaborationists decades ago And they are not held accountable to their members because they have the money, political connections and U.S. Labor law on their side to crush any challenge / rebellion in their respective unions.

But there is always hope that a stronger rebellion could emerge in the near future due to rank and file member’s anger. There already is a lot of rank and file anger in various Unions over their ( mis-leadership ) refusal to poll members about rather to endorse Sanders or Clinton and the subsequent election of Trump. If a further erosion of member’s wages / benefits / working conditions were to occur, that would then be a greater possibility, which is long overdue.

I am of course NOT referring to the few decent Unions that exist like ; UE, Nurses, ILWU, CWA.

In regards to Trumpka, he is the biggest liar and phony of them all. He talks a good talk and is a hell of a public speaker, but it is all smoke and mirrors.

David Johnson

From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 6:54 PM
To: David Green
Cc: Peace Discuss
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Join fifty urging Champaign County Dems to back Keith Ellison for DNC

I want to clarify something here about what I know about the role of the AFL.

It's not obvious to me from what I know that this is really Trumka's fault. From what I know, a case could be made that Trumka did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. 

First: he knew and clearly articulated what the score was. After Brexit, he gave a major speech saying this could happen here and that's why the Democratic Party has to take a clear line against the TPP. 

Second: He pressured the pro-Hillary labor leaders, with partial success, not to be so eager to rush to endorse Hillary while the primary was hanging fire and the TPP was hanging fire. What's the rush, Trumka said. Why give up our leverage. 

But the pro-Hillary labor leaders had a different orientation. They believed that the earlier you endorse the winner, the more leverage you have later. 

That's arguable, to say the least. I think it was a grave mistake. 

But the fact is, regardless of that, we gave them a perfect opportunity to stand tall, even after they endorsed Hillary, when they could have stood with the anti-TPP people in the Platform Committee. And they didn't. And the reason they didn't was not actually Hillary. The reason they didn't was their cowardice in not standing up to Obama. Hillary would have gone along with whatever the pro-Hillary labor leaders agreed, which she did. 

So, after the pro-Hillary labor leaders caved, Trumka had to put a brave face on it, and hold Democrats in line as best he could, which he did. But it was the pro-Hillary labor leaders who screwed it up, not Trumka. 

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

(202) 448-2898 x1

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:

Well, I don't really think that's ironic. I think that's a key fact about the juncture that we're in. 

The line now of the AFL and the organizations that run with the AFL is that Trump didn't kill the TPP, because it was already dead before the election. It was dead before the election because Obama didn't have the votes to pass it in the lame duck. That's their story, and they're sticking to it.  

A lot of labor and fair trade activists across the United States are looking at this story and scratching their heads. Because that's not what the AFL and the organizations that run with the AFL were telling people before the election. They were telling people before the election that we're going to have a huge fight about this in the lame duck. 

My analysis of this is: the AFL and the organizations that run with the AFL are lying. They're not just lying to us; they're lying to their own members. They're lying to cover up the fact that we gave the pro-Hillary labor leaders a perfect opportunity in the Democratic Platform Committee to force Obama to back down on the TPP and they blew it, basically because they were cowards in not standing up to Obama. And, I think they were cowards in not standing up to Obama because they got habituated to being cowards in such a situation, and they got habituated to the fact that they're never held accountable by their own members or anyone else for being cowards in such a situation. 

Now, if you ask me, what would be real accountability in this situation, it would be holding the pro-Hillary labor leaders to account for being cowards in not standing up to Obama on the TPP. But, you know, if you ask people, can we hold the pro-Hillary labor leaders to account for this, nobody will say yes. Because there's a cultural expectation that nobody can hold the pro-Hillary labor leaders to account for anything. I'm sorry that that is the case; I wish it were not the case; but I can't hold the pro-Hillary labor leaders to account by myself. 

So, my current view is that trying to flip the leadership of the DNC to the anti-TPP forces and trying to force the pro-Hillary labor leaders to go along with that is the best-plausible accountability mechanism at present. Because in that goal, unlike the other goal, I am not standing alone. In that goal, I have friends: Sanders, Warren, CWA, National Nurses United, MoveOn, etc. 

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

(202) 448-2898 x1 <tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1> 

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:14 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

OK, fine; but ironically, the TPP is allegedly dead because allegedly Trump has killed it.

On Monday, November 21, 2016 3:11 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:

Again: no dispute from me on hating on the DNC. 

Assuming that Keith Ellison and the Sanders-Warren forces are successful in their campaign - which is by no means guaranteed, I see familiar adversaries on every horizon - It's not going to be up to Keith Ellison alone what the Democratic Party does or doesn't support. Just like it wasn't up to any one person before. He's running for Chair, not dictator. It wasn't up to any one person before what the position of the Democratic Party was on the TPP. It was the outcome of a struggle, which we lost, in significant measure because of the way that the terrain was constructed. It wasn't the actions of a single individual which caused us to lose that struggle. It was the actions of multiple people. We don't necessarily win any specific outcome on any specific issue by winning this fight. We win better terrain for all the fights in the future. 

And, we win transparency and accountability by waging the struggle and forcing people to choose sides. If we had never fought on the TPP amendment in the Platform Committee, we would never have exposed the role of the pro-Hillary labor leaders in enabling Obama on the TPP. 

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/> 
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

(202) 448-2898 x1 <tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1> 

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 2:52 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

Bob, of course I would have voted for Bernie Sanders if he had been nominated. Jill Stein would have probably voted for him. It wasn't the Green Party that defeated him in the primary/convention process. It was the DNC.

I was never cynical or critical about Bernie; I was just skeptical that the DNC and media would allow him to succeed, not exactly a tough call.

So which one of the following is the DNC under Ellison going to support?

Ending American imperial projects

Single payer health care

Reform the Federal Reserve into a public bank operating in the public interest

Annual Guaranteed Income

Full employment/job guarantee

Elimination of student debt and free higher education

Green jobs and a Green New Deal, or reasonable facsimile thereof

On Monday, November 21, 2016 9:22 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:

David, I don't think that the framework that you're proposing as the basis of progress is useful. What I hear you saying is that first I must try to convince everyone to have my worldview, including my view that Democratic Party reform efforts are useful. Once I've successfully completed that essentially ideological task, then I may be permitted to propose particular reformist projects. 

I don't think that's how the world works. I think that the way the world works is that I don't need the permission of the ultra-left to propose reformist projects. Instead, the way the world works is that I just propose whatever reformist project I want, and then people support the project or don't support the project, according to whether they like the idea of the project or not. 

And this is a sensible framework, because a key determinant of whether a project is useful or not is how many people support it. You can go off by yourself and come up with a very beautiful strategy. You can convince yourself that if only everyone would do X, the system would collapse and it would be all unicorns and ponies. But if you can't get people to do X, it doesn't matter. 

Now, there's considerable evidence that as a national project, the Keith Ellison => DNC thing is a going proposition. It's supported by Bernie Sanders/Our Revolution, which generated hundreds of thousands of signatures on a petition. It's supported by CWA and National Nurses United, the two most important labor unions that backed Bernie in the primary. 

Given that this is what is happening nationally, it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do locally. We have a bunch of people in the local Democratic Party who supported Bernie in the primary. The vote in Champaign County was two to one Bernie over Hillary. So it's a reasonable idea to test what we could do here. Are we building a thing nationally. Is the Sanders-Warren-Ellison thing a thing. One thing that makes a thing a thing is whether you have to start over from scratch each time. When we started the Bernie thing, the Green Party people and the ultra-left attacked us, just like they are attacking us on the Ellison thing now. So one of the questions going forward is can we get through the phase of being attacked by the Green Party/ultra-left faster, so we can move on to other things, instead of having to fight this battle each time we propose a new idea. 

One of the reasons I like doing petitions at MoveOn is that the cost of participation is very low. So, you can test ideas for support without asking people to commit to a lot, which allows you to test more ideas. Like, if I help organize a demonstration that's two hours away and ask people to come, that's a high bar for participation. I'm asking people to give up six hours of their lives. Most people will set a high bar for that, most of the time. If people don't agree to come, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't support the cause. It might just mean that the participation bar was too high for them. 

But signing and sharing a petition at MoveOn - that takes you five seconds. 

@ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair

http://petitions.moveon.org/ sign/champaigncodems-back?r_ by=1135580 <http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580> 

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/> 
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

(202) 448-2898 x1

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> > wrote:

Bob, what makes you think that an effort to "reform" the Democratic Party can be successful, given the corporate nature of that party?

On Monday, November 21, 2016 7:53 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> > wrote:

As of this morning, fifty-one signers. 

http://petitions.moveon.org/ sign/champaigncodems-back?r_ by=1135580 <http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580> 

If you support Jill Stein and the Green Party, go stand by Carl Estabrook. 

If you support Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Keith Ellison, come stand by me. 

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/> 
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

(202) 448-2898 x1

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