[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Gabbard & Trump against war vs. Ellison & Clinton for war

Tue Nov 22 19:31:16 UTC 2016

This story didn't start yesterday. Snarl has been doing this to me for
years. I've had enough. It's time for Snarl's abuse of me to stop.

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:24 PM, James M. <grapes17 at gmail.com> wrote:

> As purely an outside observer, you come off as entirely childish.
>
> This specific email chain was about Tulsi Gabbard & her efforts for peace.
>
> You come in here at 4:23am and have a meltdown.
>
> The choice is yours, but word of advice, your tactics may need improvement.
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That's not how I see it. I see Snarl as someone who is trying to have
>> power by attacking other people's projects that don't concern him.
>>
>> If the Green Party organizes a project that concerns Green Party people,
>> I don't stick my nose into it and try to screw it up.
>>
>> If the Green Party attacks my stuff, I'm going to retaliate until the
>> abuse stops.
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:11 PM, James M. <grapes17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When discussing hard issues is too much, fall back onto identity
>>> politics & ad-hominem attacks.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're wrong. Your friend Snarl Estabrook does think those things are
>>>> funny. He thinks they're hilarious. It's only your unexamined affection for
>>>> your friend Snarl that keeps you from seeing that.
>>>>
>>>> To everyone else: if you're tired of Snarl trying to boss people around
>>>> with his bullying abuse, come stand by me.
>>>>
>>>> @ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair
>>>> http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>> Policy Director
>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don’t nor does Carl Estabrook think any of those things you refer to
>>>>> as “funny,” as being funny. And we’re as willing to stand up against them
>>>>> as anyone, however standing by Keith Ellison is standing up for war, not
>>>>> progress.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bernie Sanders should be the head of the DNC given he is clearly
>>>>> interested in “reform”. He made that clear, especially when he was offered
>>>>> the chance to continue his run for the Presidency as an independent or as a
>>>>> Green. He made it clear his loyalties were to the Democratic Party, and
>>>>> Hillary. Now let him reform the Party.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will I then become a Democrat or support it? No, because reform will
>>>>> be limited and not change the fact that it is controlled by the same
>>>>> multinational conglomerates, huge financial institutions that control the
>>>>> Republican Party. They play good cop, bad cop.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is hope on the arisen that with the Trump Administration, the
>>>>> American people are awakened to the crimes against humanity which the USG
>>>>> is responsible, and the continuing deterioration and inequality of our
>>>>> society.
>>>>>
>>>>> This awakening may now lead to the overthrow/ revolution of a decaying
>>>>> system of inequality known as capitalism. That is the hope of those of us
>>>>> you so tarnish with personal attacks.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of which is being proposed below is an expansion of our
>>>>>  militarization and wars abroad, where we have already murdered Muslims,
>>>>> and people of color by the hundreds of thousands. The Democratic Party has
>>>>> been responsible these past eight years. The Republicans the eight years
>>>>> previous. The American people took notice when Bush was in power, they went
>>>>> to sleep when Obama came in to power, and he accomplished more death and
>>>>> destruction than Bush was capable of, as a result.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can anyone of good conscience condone and support such atrocities,
>>>>> mere reform isn’t going to change anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 08:04, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Again I say: if you think that creating a national registry of Muslims
>>>>> is funny, if you think that trashing Black Lives Matter is funny, if you
>>>>> think that threatening to deport millions of our Latinx neighbors is funny,
>>>>> if you think that banning abortion is funny, if you think that anti-Semitic
>>>>> dogwhistles are funny, if you think that "drill baby drill" at Standing
>>>>> Rock is funny, go stand by Snarl Estabrook.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't think those things are funny, if you support the
>>>>> Sanders-Warren-Ellison vision of trying to fulfill the promise of the
>>>>> Declaration of Independence for everyone who lives in America, come stand
>>>>> by me.
>>>>>
>>>>> @ChampaignCoDems: Back @KeithEllison for #DNCChair
>>>>> http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/champaigncodems-back?r_by=1135580
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to clear up any misconception. I don’t kiss anyone’s ass, and
>>>>>> have disagreed with Carl when I think he is wrong. He and I may disagree on
>>>>>> analysis of certain issues, like “Trump", "a woman's right to choose”,
>>>>>> freedom of speech by allowing an anti-semite a soapbox, etc. but when it
>>>>>> comes to events taking place, who is behind it, and why, he is right on
>>>>>> target.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m a socialist, one of those people, like the Greens, you hate. I
>>>>>> initiated the local Green Party, and the Student Greens are doing well.
>>>>>> It’s a long haul, but they will grow and flourish, and have already. I
>>>>>> organized the US Democrats Abroad, Thailand in the early nineties, and they
>>>>>> have thrived, unfortunately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My return to the US a few years ago, enlightened me to the crimes
>>>>>> against humanity for which the Democratic leadership is responsible. I
>>>>>> support some local democrats on an individual basis as they are good people
>>>>>> and well meaning. It’s now quite clear that you aren’t one of them. You
>>>>>> have spiraled out of control and need help with your anger and hatred.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 07:38, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Green Party is going down hard. You better get out while you can.
>>>>>> Soon all Green Party people will be tarred as Nazi Trump supporters, just
>>>>>> like your friend Carl Estabrook whose ass you love to lick. Green Party
>>>>>> won't be invited to participate in anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m being kind when I suggest “sleep”. Your response indicates
>>>>>>> psychiatric help maybe in order.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 06:30, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Green Party cancer scum need to suck up the fact that they are lying
>>>>>>> morons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 7:20 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob, you need to get some sleep.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 02:23, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're a fraud, Carl. You're a huckster, a charlatan, a snake-oil
>>>>>>>> salesman, a carnival barker, just like your Fuhrer Trump. You're a corrupt,
>>>>>>>> lying, deceitful abusive bully, too enamored of your own penis.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 3:52 AM, C. G. Estabrook <
>>>>>>>> carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Instead of Clinton’s slavish devotion to AIPAC? Or Obama’s massive
>>>>>>>>> pay-off to Netanyahu?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Trump administration may easily do better, e.g.,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "General under consideration by Trump for Defense has slammed
>>>>>>>>> Israel for impending ‘apartheid’”:
>>>>>>>>> http://mondoweiss.net/2016/11/consideration-impending-apartheid/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 2:45 AM, Robert Naiman naiman.uiuc at gmail.com [sf-core]
>>>>>>>>> <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're glib, Carl. As usual.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If Trump is your Fuhrer, would you care to defend what we know
>>>>>>>>> about his plans for the Palestinians?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:42 AM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss
>>>>>>>>>  <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Friends -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As you have no doubt heard by now, I met with President-elect
>>>>>>>>>> Donald Trump earlier today.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He asked me to meet with him to discuss our current policies
>>>>>>>>>> regarding Syria, our fight against terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS,
>>>>>>>>>> as well as other foreign policy challenges we face.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It would have been easier for me to refuse this meeting. The
>>>>>>>>>> establishment and social media have been talking about this all day. But I
>>>>>>>>>> never have and never will play politics with American and Syrian lives.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, like President Obama, I firmly believe that now is the
>>>>>>>>>> time for us to put our country first, and come together, regardless of
>>>>>>>>>> political party, and tackle the many challenges we face.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was an opportunity to advocate for peace—and *I felt it was
>>>>>>>>>> important to take the opportunity to meet with the President-elect to
>>>>>>>>>> counteract neocons’ steady drumbeats of war, which threaten to drag us into
>>>>>>>>>> an escalation of the war to overthrow the Syrian government.*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This war has already cost hundreds of thousands of lives and
>>>>>>>>>> forced millions of refugees to flee their homes in search of safety for
>>>>>>>>>> themselves and their families. It has also strengthened al-Qaeda and other
>>>>>>>>>> violent, extremist groups in the region. It would have been irresponsible
>>>>>>>>>> not to accept this invitation. I feel it is my duty to take every single
>>>>>>>>>> opportunity I get to advocate for peace, no matter the circumstances of
>>>>>>>>>> those meetings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I shared with him my grave concerns that escalating the war in
>>>>>>>>>> Syria by implementing a so-called no-fly/safe zone would be disastrous for
>>>>>>>>>> the Syrian people, our country, and the world. It would lead to more death
>>>>>>>>>> and suffering, exacerbate the refugee crisis, strengthen ISIS and al-Qaeda
>>>>>>>>>> and bring us into a direct conflict with Russia–potentially resulting in a
>>>>>>>>>> nuclear war. We discussed my bill to end our country’s illegal war to
>>>>>>>>>> overthrow the Syrian government and the need to focus our precious
>>>>>>>>>> resources on rebuilding our country, and on defeating al-Qaeda, ISIS, and
>>>>>>>>>> other terrorist groups who pose a threat to the American people.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, where I disagree with President-elect Trump on issues, I
>>>>>>>>>> will not hesitate to express that disagreement. You didn’t send me to
>>>>>>>>>> Washington to make friends with the political elite. You sent me to
>>>>>>>>>> represent you, and I am committed to doing just that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *In short: I will never allow partisanship to undermine our
>>>>>>>>>> national security when the lives of countless people lay in the balance. *
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If that earns me enemies in Washington or at the State
>>>>>>>>>> Department, then so be it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hope you’ll continue to stand with me and stay engaged. The
>>>>>>>>>> cause of peace is too great for us to allow political disagreements or
>>>>>>>>>> partisanship to stand in our way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Aloha,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tulsi Gabbard
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *ADD YOUR THOUGHTS
>>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__aloha.votetulsi.com_page_m_5df272d0_1760b005_1b8a569d_3ce159ae_2545853601_VEsH_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=MB5zUaUCIjHgJxmrqgE_FwwVPlofVBDe7Tgh9QXMzd8&s=87jv_GIyTSv_ve02Dp_1IQOLg3A8K83hEZ-4rKbcSew&e=>*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __._,_.___
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Posted by: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>  (1)
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__yho.com_1wwmgg&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=MB5zUaUCIjHgJxmrqgE_FwwVPlofVBDe7Tgh9QXMzd8&s=qIEy0yyIldKvjsVASt4-EXE7ZZedjZdw955uFuu7P-g&e=>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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