[Peace-discuss] S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley accepts offer to be Trump's UN ambassador: source

Wed Nov 23 19:38:01 UTC 2016

In the US, separation of church and state - which refers to institutions and personnel -  has never meant separation of religion and politics.

In some ways, it’s made the latter more difficult, as Tocqueville saw, 180 years ago. —CGE

> On Nov 23, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> You   don't need Bloom to analyze Christianity.   You can read Luther and Calvin for yourself to find "inner solitude." As my Teacher, Mentor and Friend, the late, great Judith Shklar who was my PHD Examiner in Political Philosophy at Harvard said: We live in a Protestant Political Culture in America.In any event, I firmly believe a la Jefferson in Public Education and in Separation of Church and State a la  the First Amendment and especially in Separation of Church and State in our Public Schools. Fab
> 
> 
> Francis A. Boyle
> Law Building
> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
> Champaign, IL 61820 USA
> 217-333-7954 (phone)
> 217-244-1478 (fax)
> (personal comments only)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 7:23 AM
> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
> Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; futureup2us at gmail.com; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; a23h23 at yahoo.com; davidcnswanson at gmail.com; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; davetrippel at ameritech.net; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; lina at worldcantwait.net; chicago at worldcantwait.net
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley accepts offer to be Trump's UN ambassador: source
> 
> One needn’t be 'anti-Mormon’ to find it an interesting phenomenon, with social and political implications (as Conan Doyle did). 
> 
> The late Jacob Neusner (whom I was happy to call a teacher and friend), the leading American scholar of Judaism (that’ll upset some people), was as he said, “tight with the Mormons.”
> 
> And the leading American critic Harold Bloom (that’ll upset other - or maybe some of the same - people) published an interesting book called “American Religion” a decade ago; in it he takes Mormonism as central to his topic:
> 
> “...he covers the topic of religion in the United States from a perspective which he calls religious criticism. Religious denominations Bloom discusses include The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Christian Science, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Southern Baptist Convention. Bloom lays out his conception of a practice of religious criticism, by which he does not mean criticism of religion. He distinguishes the practice from other aspects of religious studies (e.g., history of religion or philosophy of religion) by analogy with his practice of literary criticism. Bloom says, literary criticism involves aspects of history et cetera, but is distinguished by having a focus on aesthetic judgments concerning literature. Bloom's religious criticism thus will involve history et cetera, but also pay attention particularly to the spiritual values of religions [SIC].
> 
> “...Bloom identifies Ralph Waldo Emerson and William James as previous scholars who practiced religious criticism of American religion. He concludes that in America there is a single, dominant religion of which many nominally distinct denominations are a part. Among these he identifies Mormonism, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pentecostalism, and Seventh-day Adventism. To a lesser extent however, he also includes nearly all 'Christian' denominations in America, including mainline Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. Bloom's view is that all of these groups in America are united by requiring that each person may only truly meet with the divine when experiencing a 'total inward solitude' and that salvation cannot be achieved by engaging with a community, but only through a one-to-one confrontation with the divine ... Bloom says that the American religion is rather more like a form of Gnosticism [THE ORIGINAL - AND PERSISTENT - CHRISTIAN HERESY, IN ITS SPIRITUALISM AND ELITISM, IS 'ANTI-INCARNATIONAL.' —CGE] ... James P. Hanigan [OBSERVES CORRECTLY] that Bloom's argument is motivated by his own ‘Gnostic’ spirituality…” [Wikipedia].
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Carl: I am not anti-Mormon. Just pro-First Amendment--I believe in Separation of Church and State. Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 6:46 AM
>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; futureup2us at gmail.com; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; davetrippel at ameritech.net; a23h23 at yahoo.com; davidcnswanson at gmail.com; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; lina at worldcantwait.net; chicago at worldcantwait.net
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley accepts offer to be Trump's UN ambassador: source
>> 
>> For escapist lit (which we surely need), see the first Sherlock Holmes novel, “A Study in Scarlet” (1887), which takes place largely in America and is suffused with anti-Mormonism - apparently typical of British public opinion 130 years ago. The poets often get there first (even before lawyers, sometimes).  —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> With Mitt The Twitt as The Trumpster's SOS, we will have US Foreign Policy coming out of Salt Lake Vatican City. Fab.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: public at lists.accuracy.org [mailto:public at lists.accuracy.org] On Behalf Of Institute for Public Accuracy
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:05 PM
>>> To: Institute for Public Accuracy <institute at igc.org>
>>> Subject: Mormonism: * Bigotry * Romney's Bishophood a Problem?
>>> 
>>> Institute for Public Accuracy
>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045
>>> (202) 347-0020 * http://www.accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org __________________________________________________________
>>> 
>>>        Thursday, January 19, 2011
>>> 
>>>        Mormonism: * Bigotry * President Romney's Bishophood a Threat to the First Amendment?
>>> 
>>> JOANNA BROOKS, jmbrooks at mail.sdsu.edu, http://joannabrooks.org, http://www.religiondispatches.org/contributors/joannabrooks
>>>  Brooks is author of "The Book of Mormon Girl." She writes regularly for ReligionDispatches.org and her recent pieces include "The New York Times Sunday Review has a Mormon Problem" and "How (Not) to React to Anti-Mormon Sentiment in the South."
>>> 
>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at law.uiuc.edu
>>>  Boyle is a professor at the University of Illinois College of Law and author of "Tackling America’s Toughest Questions." He said today: "Romney’s official positions in the hierarchy of the Mormon Church raise serious questions under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Do the American people want the functional equivalent to the Mormon Pope and his College of Cardinals sitting in their Salt Lake Vatican City ordering the President of the United States what to do? Romney must come clean and fully explain his official positions in the Mormon Church hierarchy and the extent to which he takes orders from their Prophet and Apostles. So far the mainstream news media have all given Romney a pass on this threat to the First Amendment because big business supports Romney and the mainstream media is part of big business. But the mainstream media are protected by that same First Amendment that Romney threatens. The media have a First Amendment obligation to nail down Romney on these serious First Amendment issues."
>>> 
>>>  "Romney is/was a Mormon Bishop and Archbishop. They take orders from the Mormon Prophet, roughly the Mormon equivalent of the Roman Catholic Pope. Constitutionally speaking under the First Amendment, Romney is not equivalent to either John Kennedy (a lay Catholic) or Joe Lieiberman (a lay orthodox Jew) or Jimmy Carter (a lay Baptist Sunday school teacher)."
>>> 
>>>  "Critically, Kennedy said he would resign if there was a conflict and Romney conspicuously did not."
>>> 
>>>  Boyle is a Magna Cum Laude graduate of Harvard Law School where he was section-mates with Willard Mitt Romney, now known as Mitt, as first year law students (1Ls) during the 1971-1972 academic year. They took all their first-year law courses together. He teaches courses on the Constitutional Law of U.S. Foreign Affairs, and Jurisprudence, among others.
>>> 
>>> Kennedy's address from 1960: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
>>> 
>>> Romney addressed the issue of religion and public office in 2007: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16969460
>>> 
>>> See "Who is the Mormon Prophet Today?" http://mormon.org/faq/present-day-prophet
>>> 
>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy:
>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020; or David Zupan, (541) 484-9167 _________________________________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> Francis A. Boyle
>>> Law Building
>>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>>> (personal comments only)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Boyle, Francis A 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 6:13 AM
>>> To: 'C. G. Estabrook' <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>> Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; futureup2us at gmail.com; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; a23h23 at yahoo.com; davidcnswanson at gmail.com; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; davetrippel at ameritech.net; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; lina at worldcantwait.net; chicago at worldcantwait.net
>>> Subject: RE: S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley accepts offer to be Trump's UN ambassador: source
>>> 
>>> Thanks Carl. Sam was behind me at Harvard Law School getting brainwashed to run the American Empire--just like Obama, Killer Koh and the rest of Obama's  Harvard Law Mafia. And Mitt The Twitt Romney--The Trumpster's potential SOS-- was my HLS 1L Section-mate--we took all our first year courses together. "There but for the grace of God go I!"
>>> Fab
>>> Ed Norton Professor of Law
>>> Carl Schmitt College of Law:
>>> "Mein Fuhrer, I can walk!"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Francis A. Boyle
>>> Law Building
>>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>>> (personal comments only)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com] 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 6:01 AM
>>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>>> Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; futureup2us at gmail.com; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; a23h23 at yahoo.com; davidcnswanson at gmail.com; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; davetrippel at ameritech.net; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; lina at worldcantwait.net; chicago at worldcantwait.net
>>> Subject: Re: S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley accepts offer to be Trump's UN ambassador: source
>>> 
>>> FAB’s got this quite right - on both points. 
>>> 
>>> The Kennedy School has been a a malign joke since its inception - and Pepe Escobar rightly refers to "the Pentagon sabotage of the Russia-US ceasefire; those fits of rage by Samantha Batshit Crazy Power; [and] the non-stop spin that Russia is committing 'war crimes’.”  —CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 23, 2016, at 5:37 AM, Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Got to be an improvement over Sam Our Problem From Hell Power. Sam can go back to the Kennedy School—a DOD/CIA Front Organization.
>>>> fab
>>>> 
>> 
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