[Peace-discuss] [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about

Wed Oct 19 11:19:06 UTC 2016

Agree with you, Gregg
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 7:23 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> You've made some good points here, worthy of further discussion, though I personally don't  care to engage in discussions related to electoral politics, or the two major candidates.
> 
> It must be noted that while neither candidate holding the reigns of power are likely to want to incinerate their own fortunes, accidents and blowback do happen. While incinerating the other half of humanity, that should be kept in mind. I doubt that has occurred to either of them, any more than it has occurred to most Americans. 
>  
> From: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:18:15 AM
> To: C. G. Estabrook; Karen Aram
> Cc: John W.; peace; Peace-discuss List; Occupy CU
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about
>  
> OMG -- must we?
> 
> Left or right is hardly the point when it comes to Donald Trump anymore.  The point is the mental stability of a man who seeks control of thousands of nuclear weapons.  You want to talk about war?  Yeah, let's talk about it.  
> 
> To take this discussion to the lowest level possible -- why waste time, after all -- I trust the corrupt and evil Hillary Clinton to not want to incinerate the fortune she has worked so hard to acquire.  Trump has just gone "nuclear" with his campaign, and I have no reason to think he wouldn't do so with the real thing -- and all of our lives --given the opportunity.
> 
> 16 years of "party building" has taken the Greens from Ralph Nader's 3% to Jill Stein's 1% and has resulted in the election of not a single US Congressperson -- not even close -- so someone in that camp has not done a very good job, certainly not enough to inspire confidence in me that that is a promising alternative.  But hey -- you never know.  The polls could be wrong.  This might be the time.  Success is just around the corner.  Democracy's on the march.  So if you want to vote Green, vote Green.  In my opinion, that makes you 99.44% pure, and .56% relevant , which frankly, is exactly where I want you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> 
> Cc: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>; peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss List <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>; Occupy CU <occupy.cu at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 8:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about
> 
> I think the correct course is to continue to point out that Stein-Baraka are far superior to either ‘major’ party on the issues, especially war.  
> 
> We still need to answer the objection that a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump, by pointing out that Trump has accurately criticized Clinton’s neocon warmongering.
> 
> As Glen Ford and others point out, Trump is substantially to the left of Clinton on foreign policy (and perhaps economic policy - the trade pacts - as well).
> 
> That’s why the Democrats want to focus on the ‘personal’ - and we should talk about war.
> 
> 
> 
> > On Oct 11, 2016, at 7:33 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > This Karen Capel person is continuing to stalk me, just like Roger Helbig, either on or off the List, they are incapable of discussing the issues so they just lash out with insults, Greg is another one. 
> > 
> > Many Americans like Trump, because he represents this level of people. 
> > 
> > Then of course a few academics and intellectuals also like Trump but thats because they only listen to the “true things" Trump says in order to discredit the “Left”. He lacks credibility so nothing he says is meaningful, and anyone who supports him in the US is also vilified as a result. People who are intellectuals and academics supporting Trump  aren’t in touch with mainstream media or people. They are looking at the big picture, and the potential for disaster. Unfortunately, any assumption that a jerk like Trump would reverse our path to destruction is misguided. Republicans and Democrats follow the same foreign policy, they may play good cop, bad cop with the American people but throwing a bone or two to the starving is of little comfort.  
> > 
> > Then we have those who support Hillary because she presents the image of the lesser evil, at least in respect to America, these are people who don’t recognize we live in a global world, not just a county, state, or nation. So when it hits home, they aren’t able to grasp the fact that it’s all connected, when they do, it will likely be too late. 
> > 
> > Chomsky’s "Manufactured Consent" in spades.
> > 
> > 
> >> On Oct 10, 2016, at 21:22, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> —allows us to form answers to common objections/shows us what views are being encouraged by government & media.
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:06 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Another troll, Gregg, who has nothing of value to add, just insults. No concern for the issues facing humanity, just insults.  
> >>> 
> >>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 20:50, Gregg Gordon via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> I suggest you hold your breath until you turn blue.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> >>>> To: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> 
> >>>> Cc: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>; peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss List <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Occupy CU <occupy.cu at gmail.com>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 10:32 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about
> >>>> 
> >>>> Verbally. But Clinton’s stomping killed a lot of people. As Trump said, she should be in jail - in The Hague, awaiting trial on war crimes charges.  
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 10:19 PM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> You're right.  He did a lot of stomping.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> From: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> >>>>> To: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> 
> >>>>> Cc: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>; peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss List <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Occupy CU <occupy.cu at gmail.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 10:10 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Trump was quite clear and concise in Sunday’s debate when he stomped on Pence’s neocon fire-breathing on Syria: “I didn’t talk to him and he’s wrong”!
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> —CGE
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Gregg Gordon via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> When he attempted to address policy, it came out as an incoherent string of seemingly random phrases in no particular order -- nothing approaching a complete sentence, not sure there was a subject OR a verb in there.  Carl's quote must have gotten some help from the journalist who quoted him, just to find places to put punctuation.
> >>>>>> From: John W. via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>
> >>>>>> To: C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com> 
> >>>>>> Cc: peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss List <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Occupy CU <occupy.cu at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 8:12 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] What last night's debate should have been about
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Vote for Donald Trump.  He's a foreign policy genius!
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:47 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> https://consortiumnews.com/ 2016/10/10/hillary-clinton- candidate-of-war/
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> ...“Now, she talks tough,” [Trump] said of Clinton: “She talks really tough against Putin and against Assad. She talks in favor of the rebels. She doesn’t even know who the rebels are. You know, every time we take rebels whether it’s in Iraq or anywhere else, we’re arming people. And you know what happens? They end up being worse than the people [they overthrow]. Look at what she did in Libya with Gaddafi.  Gaddafi is out. It’s a mess. And by the way, ISIS has a good chunk of their oil. I’m sure you’ve probably have heard that. It was a disaster. The fact is almost everything she has done has been a mistake and it’s been a disaster.”
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Trump’s comment was correct, more or less ... Hillary Clinton has made it crystal clear. Anyone who votes for her is voting for greatly expanded warfare in the Middle East and probably military confrontation with Russia elsewhere as well. As bad as things are in Syria, in a few months they could get a lot worse...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> _
> > 
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> 
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