[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Who do we BLAME? Part 40517.

Fri Apr 7 04:34:26 UTC 2017

Belden,

You don’t know  god damn thing about what has happened in Syria, what is happening there, and your so-called argument is worse than asinine. You have become an apologist for war—you, a human rights advocate. Shame!!!

—mkb

On Apr 6, 2017, at 8:03 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I would only point out that when Assad was asked by the press many months ago about his air force's use of barrel bombs in residential areas, which killed and maimed many civilians, his reply was "a bomb is a bomb. It makes no difference."  He is clearly willing to use any weapons at his disposal regardless of  the cost in civilian lives--by HIS OWN WORDS.
No, the investigation is not yet done.  But we have heard him loud and clear, anything is fair in this war regardless of humans suffering and international law. Yes, the US has caused enormous suffering and violated human rights itself.  But Chomsky is  right.  Assad is a nasty piece of work and it ill suits people on the Left to pretend otherwise.

Belden

________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Brussel, Morton K via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 4:19 PM
To: Karen Aram
Cc: peace; Peace-discuss AWARE
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Who do we BLAME? Part 40517.

I certainly don’t know Assad’s mind and actions, how he is running/defending his country (or is it his country?). Does Chomsky? What does he clearly know about what is taking place in Syria?
So I commend you Karen for”going against the Chomsky grain in this matter. As to the gas attack, if that is what it was, a commentary by Gareth Porter is helpful:
 https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/05/another-dangerous-rush-to-judgment-in-syria/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__consortiumnews.com_2017_04_05_another-2Ddangerous-2Drush-2Dto-2Djudgment-2Din-2Dsyria_&d=DwMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=d5pv-fy0lKzIdkrZ_LKgEuJ_k1FuOozQystq3I4flcw&s=1MDhUs946mapM512HrDHYhvSp4IzZ5XEuHHzaS0Cho0&e=>

On Apr 6, 2017, at 6:27 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I disagree with Noam Chomsky’s assessment of Russia, having only one ally. Iran is also an ally, in the Med. This is very important and it’s geopolitical. As to Syria, he failed to look at the history of US involvement in Syria, just going along with mainstream US assessment that Assad is horrible, maybe he is, but look what we have done, we’ve had a presence in Syria, covertly under the Obama administration, not really, just not as openly as now under Trump and the Pentagon.

I know, “who am I to disagree with Chomsky” , hey I disagree with Presidents and the Pope when I think they’re wrong.

See Wm. Blum et al.

On Apr 5, 2017, at 18:36, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

NOAM CHOMSKY: Syria is a horrible catastrophe. The Assad regime is a moral disgrace. They’re carrying out horrendous acts, the Russians with them.

AMY GOODMAN: Why the Russians with them?

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, pretty simple reason: Syria is their one ally in the whole region. Not a close ally, but they do have—their one Mediterranean base is in Syria. It’s the one country that’s more or less cooperated with them. And they don’t want to lose their one ally. It’s very ugly, but that’s what’s happening.

Meanwhile, there have been—it’s kind of like the North Korean case we were discussing. There have been possible opportunities to terminate the horrors. In 2012, there was an initiative from the Russians, which was not pursued, so we don’t know how serious it was, but it was a proposal to—for a negotiated settlement, in which Assad would be phased out, not immediately. You know, you can’t tell them, "We’re going to murder you. Please negotiate." That’s not going to work. But some system in which, in the course of negotiations, he would be removed, and some kind of settlement would be made. The West would not accept it, not just the United States. France, England, the United States simply refused to even consider it. At the time, they believed they could overthrow Assad, so they didn’t want to do this, so the war went on. Could it have worked? You never know for sure. But it could have been pursued. Meanwhile, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are supporting jihadi groups, which are not all that different from ISIS. So you have a horror story on all sides. The Syrian people are being decimated.

AMY GOODMAN: And the U.S. now sending 400 more troops to Syria. But if the U.S. has a better relationship with Russia, could that change everything?

NOAM CHOMSKY: It could lead to some kind of accommodation in which a negotiated diplomatic settlement would be implemented, which would by no means be lovely, but it would at least cut down the level of violence, which is critical, because the country is simply being destroyed. It’s descending to suicide.

On Apr 5, 2017, at 7:54 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"Another Dangerous Rush to Judgment in Syria” | April 5, 2017
The U.S. government and the mainstream media rushed to judgment again, blaming the Syrian government for a new poison-gas attack and ignoring other possibilities, reports Robert Parry.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/05/another-dangerous-rush-to-judgment-in-syria/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__consortiumnews.com_2017_04_05_another-2Ddangerous-2Drush-2Dto-2Djudgment-2Din-2Dsyria_&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0OxnMtE8UUT3iZeVLUCrLdMjgRbaTaVh37XwFNWg0HI&s=XcNMV1_e4GlthG1UHtWsrzJ8szoh6hofEHEjf2oFBqM&e=>

On Apr 5, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Good question.

"Only fake news sub-zoology specimens can possibly believe Damascus would profit from staging a chemical attack just a few hours after the St. Petersburg metro tragedy. The timing is NOT accidental. No wonder hysterical block to block ‘coverage' in NATO-controlled MSM - actually editorials, blaming Damascus without any investigation whatsoever." [Pepe Escobar]

"Rebel warehouse with chem weapons hit by Syrian airstrike in Idlib” <https://www.rt.com/news/383522-syria-idlib-warehouse-strike-chemical/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.rt.com_news_383522-2Dsyria-2Didlib-2Dwarehouse-2Dstrike-2Dchemical_&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0OxnMtE8UUT3iZeVLUCrLdMjgRbaTaVh37XwFNWg0HI&s=AWb4BIPdclQsfQV-AKcyP3aS3A7pjz8nolPgnPNMB5M&e=>>

Here are reports from US propaganda sources that suggest what may have happened:

"Russia blames deadly Syrian gassing on rebels' own chemical arsenal” <http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-blames-syria-gassing-leak-rebels-own-chemical-arsenal-n742791<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nbcnews.com_news_world_russia-2Dblames-2Dsyria-2Dgassing-2Dleak-2Drebels-2Down-2Dchemical-2Darsenal-2Dn742791&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0OxnMtE8UUT3iZeVLUCrLdMjgRbaTaVh37XwFNWg0HI&s=_tFqPVdPHbm97EvJ4k_88CIQmu4V6ulexu930ckfRs0&e=>>

"Idlib Attack Aimed at Disrupting Talks, U.N. Envoy Says” <https://www.wsj.com/articles/idlib-attack-aimed-at-disrupting-talks-u-n-envoy-says-1491325155?tesla=y<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.wsj.com_articles_idlib-2Dattack-2Daimed-2Dat-2Ddisrupting-2Dtalks-2Du-2Dn-2Denvoy-2Dsays-2D1491325155-3Ftesla-3Dy&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0OxnMtE8UUT3iZeVLUCrLdMjgRbaTaVh37XwFNWg0HI&s=TN73zc2h_rbjVD9esZFNOubL8Sk1geIWPOLk-057YPA&e=>>

Cui bono? Whose interests are being served by disrupting the talks? The Syrian government's military predominance over the rebels (established with Russia's help) could be recognized in Geneva. The Assad government would seem to have no motive for committing a war crime, but its enemies would certainly have a motive for saying it did.

—CGE

On Apr 5, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Szoke, Ron via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Trump White House responds to Syrian gas attack by blaming the Obama administration

<Hunter.jpeg>
By Hunter
Daily Kos, Tuesday Apr 04, 2017 · 12:22 PM CDT

Donald Trump repeatedly claimed, during the campaign, that the various bad actors on the world stage were only daring to commit aggressions and atrocities because our current leaders were "weak." Today's chemical weapons attack by Syrian forces against Syrian civilians will be one of his team's first true foreign policy tests: they quickly proved themselves to up to the task.
White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters Tuesday that a gas attack in a rebel-controlled area of Syria was perpetrated by the forces tied to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and are a "consequence of the past administration's weakness and irresolution." [...]
"Today's chemical attack in Syria against innocent people including women and children is reprehensible and cannot be ignored by the civilized world," Spicer said. "These heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the past administration's weakness and irresolution."
This may be the first official White House condemnation of the use of chemical weapons to be affixed to a direct political attack on a previous president. The move makes it appear that the White House is more concerned with dodging responsibility for responding to the Syrian attack than they are with the use of the weapons themselves.
It is likely that the Trump team has not mapped out an American response to the attacks—especially because of the Trump campaign and transition eagerness to pursue a Russia-friendly compromise in Syria despite Russia's backing of the regime that perpetrated these attacks. Actual Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, for his part, is so far again absent from the discussion.

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