[Peace-discuss] Tax Rally Saturday
David Johnson
davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net
Thu Dec 7 03:31:13 UTC 2017
We have talked about this before Carl,
There is identity politics intersectionality and then there is CLASS BASED intersectionality.
David J.
-----Original Message-----
From: C G Estabrook [mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 7:47 PM
To: David Johnson
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tax Rally Saturday
David--
“Intersectionality" was coined to make up for the abandonment (in the 1970s) of a social democratic politics (from the New Deal on) that had attempted to blunt exploitation.
But intersectionality meant an alliance amongst all groups discriminated against, on the basis of their discrimination (not their class position).
"Discrimination is neoliberalism’s theory of inequality. Even poor whites have started to buy it — a large number appear to think anti-white bias is their real problem! Obviously, they’re wrong, but when, as Barbara and Karen Fields point out, the language of victimization has become so impoverished that it consists of nothing but discrimination, you go with what you’ve got. A new left politics will need to change that. Instead of a more complicated understanding of identity — of race, sex, and intersectionality (that opiate of the professional managerial class) — we need a more profound understanding of exploitation.” [W. B. Michaels]
A "more profound understanding of exploitation" is something you've talked about - rather than the concerns of the "professional, managerial class.” —CGE
> On Dec 6, 2017, at 5:28 PM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> It's NOT about " dilution" Carl,
>
> It's about communicating and showing / emphasizing the connections between policies like the tax bill that benefits the 1 % and the insatiable feeding of the war machine.
> Something that you yourself have talked about on numerous occasions.
> It's also about interacting with people in the community.
> And YES, it IS about intersectionality Carl, CLASS BASED intersectionality. This tax bill is as class based as it gets.
>
> David J.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 3:52 PM
> To: Karen Aram
> Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tax Rally Saturday
>
> The tax rally is a good cause, and it’s worthwhile for people to turn out for a good cause.
>
> I was talking about a narrower issue, David’s suggestion of AWARE's "past refusal to find common cause with others.”
>
> AWARE is an anti-war organization, and there have been substantial attempts, honest and dishonest, to turn aside the antiwar movement. The Obama campaign is the most significant and successful of of the latter; identity politics, with its notion of intersectionality, is the best example of the former. One result is the frequent articles entitled something like, “Whatever happened to the antiwar movement?”
>
> I think David’s exhortation that "AWARE needs to interact with people from other social justice, anti-capitalist, anti-empire organizations now and then so that the antiwar message ... grounded in the concerns of the people in these other organizations” suggests the hazard of continued dilution of antiwar sentiment into fashionable ‘intersectionality.'
>
>
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>> Carl, what the bloody blazes, does this email to David, have to do with the rally, other than to obfuscate its occurrence and intent. You’re turning this into an argument over “intersectionality?”
>>
>> The new tax bill has everything to do with “class” it has nothing to do with racism.
>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 12:26, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> David—
>>>
>>> “Intersectionality” [ = “Why don’t all of us discriminated-against people get together?”] is the desperate dead-end of identity politics, which is itself the cover for neoliberalism. Once class politics are abandoned, discrimination rather than exploitation becomes the only explanation for inequality.
>>>
>>> But we’re not killing people in the Mideast for white supremacy (or any other form of discrimination). We’re doing it for the profits of the American economic elite. It’s the job of the US antiwar movement to tell that truth and shame the ruling class devil. Confusion with other good causes - like anti-discrimination - serves to obscure it.
>>>
>>> Regards, Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:27 AM, David Johnson via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All very good points Karen.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that members of an organization like AWARE need to interact with people from other social justice, anti-capitalist, anti-empire organizations now and then so that the antiwar message can be communicated face to face and grounded in the concerns of the people in these other organizations and how endless war and empire is one of the root causes of most of our domestic problems.
>>>> I am sorry to say that AWARE does not have a very good reputation in the community currently because of its past refusal to find common cause with others. And I am NOT talking about the democrats.
>>>> Mohamed must go to the mountain and one should NOT expect the mountain to come to Mohamed.
>>>>
>>>> David J.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:57 AM
>>>> To: Robert Naiman
>>>> Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tax Rally Saturday
>>>>
>>>> No kidding Bob, I’m under no illusion that our solidarity will be reciprocated. In the nearly five years I’ve been involved with AWARE, attending others programs, rally’s, demos, etc. I’ve never seen, almost never, others join AWARE in our demos, protests, or events against war, that includes you.
>>>>
>>>> However, that is not why I urge AWARE to attend and endorse this anti-tax rally. That is not why I urge everyone to attend.
>>>>
>>>> I do it because:
>>>>
>>>> 1) It’s the Right Thing to do.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Everyone should be opposing the tax increase being imposed upon all, but the super wealthy. We know, social services such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, come next.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Ending war, means changing the “system of government,” not just new elections, perhaps the “tax issue” will forward that happening, perhaps not.
>>>>
>>>> 4) I hope you’ll join us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 04:42, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to admit that my sympathy is more with Carl in this dispute.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the one hand, all good people should support all good things and oppose all bad things, no matter what, right? If someone hands me a petition saying, oppose the execution of X, I sign it. I don't bother to scrutinize the details. I oppose the death penalty no matter what. I oppose it for the innocent, and I oppose it for the guilty. So what difference does it make if the person is innocent or guilty? I'm going to sign the petition anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, nobody should be under any illusions that if anti-war, anti-Empire people in the U.S. spend energy and resources supporting the justice causes that other people are focused on, that will necessarily make them more likely in the future to support anti-war, anti-Empire justice causes. It might work like that in a normal country. But in the United States, since the McCarthy period, the liberals have been indoctrinated not to help us. So, do the right thing, but don't be under any illusions that your solidarity will be reciprocated.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.justforeignpolicy.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C165ef897b7dc4893c86e08d53ce7b864%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636481888279957919&sdata=ZtoCRF6BQ9WWb6WHTHzta%2F4%2BaHIowJkKjshfcFiLuTg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>>
>>>>> Co-Sponsor Khanna-Massie to #StopSaudiFamineInYemen
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpetitions.moveon.org%2Fsign%2Fforce-vote-on-saudi-war%3Fr_by%3D1135580&data=02%7C01%7C%7C165ef897b7dc4893c86e08d53ce7b864%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636481888279957919&sdata=j52wPsEYVtIr7hGoTgSdcOIJyXkb1LU7op52nk1ikUg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.justforeignpolicy.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C165ef897b7dc4893c86e08d53ce7b864%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636481888279957919&sdata=ZtoCRF6BQ9WWb6WHTHzta%2F4%2BaHIowJkKjshfcFiLuTg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>>
>>>>> Co-Sponsor Khanna-Massie to #StopSaudiFamineInYemen
>>>>> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpetitions.moveon.org%2Fsign%2Fforce-vote-on-saudi-war%3Fr_by%3D1135580&data=02%7C01%7C%7C165ef897b7dc4893c86e08d53ce7b864%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636481888279957919&sdata=j52wPsEYVtIr7hGoTgSdcOIJyXkb1LU7op52nk1ikUg%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 6:38 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you, Karen
>>>>>
>>>>> The date has been changed from the 9th to the 16th.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 20:50, kmedina67 <kmedina67 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karen Aram, thank you very much for pushing us on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be there, not in the name of anarchism which I do admire but only from afar; but in the name of Advent -- a time of great hope and preparation for the arrival of the most precious gift of love and sacrifice. In this spirit, I will be there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pace e bene,
>>>>>> - Karen Medina
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Karen Aram [mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 4:27 PM
>>>>>> To: C G Estabrook
>>>>>> Cc: David Green; Stuart Levy; David Johnson; Karen AWARE Medina; Mildred O'brien
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Tax Rally Saturday
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The tax plan is not a “mere distraction of the anti-war movement,” it is another GOP, neocon means of impoverishing the American working class. The fact that the Democrat Party voted against it, must be disturbing, but the fact that they did nothing, and never do, being good cops vs. bad cops is irrelevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be there, if AWARE doesn’t wish to endorse it fine, another nail in their coffin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps we should have considered it at Sunday’s meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't imagine any AWAREists being in favor of the tax bill, but it is a bit removed from an anti-war focus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The political establishment is working furiously to distract the anti-war movement (e.g., “#Resistance”)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it may be worthwhile for us to concentrate on US wars, as we've tried to do for 16 years. —CGE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 12:00 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about AWARE endorsing the rally?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 09:40, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not up for an outdoor event related to this particular issue on such a cold day, especially given our presence at the indoor market on Saturday morning.
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:53:45 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I received this message today from Joel of one of the “left” or anti-capitalist organizations I met with on Saturday. He is requesting AWARE sponsor their anti-tax rally on Saturday, along with the other groups referred to below, and send a speaker.
>>>>>>>>> If David Green is willing, I would like to recommend he speak on behalf of AWARE on this topic.
>>>>>>>>> David Johnson, is well informed on the topic, but will likely be representing the DSA?
>>>>>>>>> Carl is an excellent speaker but might have a problem targeting the GOP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please see below Joel’s message:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We're looking to hold it this Saturday at 2pm, at the federal courthouse in Urbana. The plan is to have a rally with speakers, and a street march if we think we have enough people.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "So far it looks like GEO will endorse, in addition to the Democratic Socialists, ISO and Socialist Alternative. Black Rose can'd endorse but a couple of them are active in helping to organize it. Would AWARE be able to co-sponsor as well, and send a speaker? "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "We're putting together a Facebook event tonight, with this messaging
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Their FB message:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Last Friday, the Republicans passed their tax bill through the Senate that would *increase* taxes on ordinary people by $4.5 trillion over ten years - the largest tax increase in US history. The bill would also trigger automatic cuts to medicare and social security, further devastate public education, and potentially triple or quadruple taxes on graduate students. With $6 trillion in tax cuts for the rich, this rip-off will massively increase economic and racial inequality in the United States.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We've written and called our representatives to oppose the bill, and they've shown that they truly don't care. So we're not asking any more. This Friday at 5, we'll join nationwide protests by rallying to fight back. We won't accept having bread taken out of our mouths. Join us and show that there will be no peace until this vicious bill is dead!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
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