[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:

Thu Jun 29 16:53:01 UTC 2017

Yeah there is a list of so-called Leftists who publicly called upon Obama to bomb Syria back in August of 2013, publicly outing themselves as Reactionary Imperialists. Will never trust any of them again. At the time I said the chemical weapons allegations against  the Assad government were bogus just based upon the facts in the public record. Any idiot could have figured that out. Later on Sy Hersh confirmed it in his expose in the London Review of Books. Ditto for all those who supported Obama's Criminal War against Libya and the Libyans--including Uniting for Peace and Justice by summarily terminating my dissent. Fab.

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA
217-333-7954 (phone)
217-244-1478 (fax)
(personal comments only)

-----Original Message-----
From: Brussel, Morton K 
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:46 AM
To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
Cc: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>; peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Jeffrey St Clair <sitka at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:

I attended a Left?, Socialist, Conference near Chicago O’Hare a couple of years ago, essentially run by the ISO. I was turned off by their attempts to convince attendees that the US should intervene in Syria. They would brook no disagreements on this, and tried to shut me down as I raised questions in their sessions. I’ve since shunned Ashley Smith and his ISO ilk. 

—mkb

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> I just realized that attempting to convince “socialists,” especially those affiliated with the ISO, that support for so called rebels in Syria is support for US imperialism, is a lost cause. I have provided many with Rick Sterlings excellent and comprehensive article in Counterpunch dated September, 2016 critiquing Ashley Smith of the ISO. Those who have been with the ISO seem to be robotic in their responses, asking what is meant by “elected” without going any further into the article to examine the evidence, of US support for the so-called rebels. 
> 
> I knew there was something wrong with the ISO during my seven months with them in 2011. The way they conduct their meetings, which isn’t conducive to conversation or any brain storming, and the way they assign books to be read and discussed, all books are of course Hay Market, which is fine, but there was little analysis of the readings, unlike that which we had at the Reading Groups that Carl held. 
> 
> Little focus was on anything up to date, and our extended group in support of international uprisings, supported the uprisings in Libya against the government, without any information or background. I left both groups, about that time, for various reasons. One of the members returned to Egypt, after a brief stint at Georgetown U. International Relations Dept., which raised a red flag with me, and shortly there after she was urging support for the coup against the Muslim Brotherhood candidate who had been democratically elected after the removal of Mubarak.
> 
> Having lived out of the country for so long, I missed a lot of what was happening in the US, but I think the answer to Jeffrey’s question, “what happened to the left anti-war movement,” is that socialist and left groups who in the past were the initiators of the anti-war movement have been infiltrated by government lackey’s over the years, in an effort to lobotomize potential, young left leaning anti-war protestors. 
> 
> I suspect the largest mass movement against war after 9/11 was conducted by the Democrat Party, just as they were behind the ladies with their pink pussy hats at the Trump inaugural. These lobotomized people, won’t make a move without “recognized leadership” and the Democrats have the funds to make it happen.  I now understand why we can get 3,000 people out to protest something Trump said, but do nothing when he bombs and continues war. 
> 
> The original feminist movement should have ended years ago, the LGBT movement should have ended when Gays were given the right to marry. Gender neutral bathrooms cause more problems than they eliminate, see Chris Hedges latest interview “On Contact,” and are trivial in the scheme of things.  
> 
> I have to ask myself why did I return to this nation of war and hegemony, high cost of healthcare, millions of disenfranchised and homeless, domestic shootings daily, and crappy food, even big Mac’s are better in China. 
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 04:39, Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> abetting every drone strike
>> ---------------
>> Yeah, just like the entire College of Law Faculty did here by bringing in Killer Koh, Obama's Droner in Chief.
>> Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 9:12 PM
>> To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; Jeffrey St Clair <sitka at comcast.net>
>> Cc: peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:
>> 
>> The Democrats have co-opted and eviscerated the anti-war movement for two generations, from Johnson (“no wider war’) to Obama (“no dumb wars”) - while they expanded the killing.
>> 
>> The Democrat war party is responsible for the duplicitous and fantastical anti-Russia movement - "aligning itself fatally with some of the most bloodthirsty hawks on the Hill and in doing so …  abetting every drone strike, Cruise missile and MOAB bomb…”
>> 
>> The anti-war movement should have nothing to do with them, unless they agree to demand all US troops (and weapons) be brought home.
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey St Clair writes:
>>> I used to believe that rightwing militarism would be countered by a liberated and reanimated anti-war movement that had refused to confront liberal wars. But where is it now? Where are the mass protests against Trump's expanding wars in Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the new re-surge in Afghanistan? Where are the protest against the rising slaughter of civilians? Where indeed. The liberal antiwar movement has morphed into an anti-Russia movement, aligning itself fatally with some of the most bloodthirsty hawks on the Hill and in doing so is abetting every drone strike, Cruise missile and MOAB bomb Trump drops.
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