[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:

[Boyle, Francis A]

That's correct. Fab.

Francis A. Boyle
Law Building
504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
Champaign, IL 61820 USA
217-333-7954 (phone)
217-244-1478 (fax)
(personal comments only)


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Aram [mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 1:06 PM
To: Estabrook, Carl G <galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>; Jeffrey St Clair <sitka at comcast.net>; peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:

Carl, 

I doubt they were really spontaneous. Even spontaneous demonstrations take a lot of work on the part of activists. While I have no doubt the many anti-war groups were organizing, I have no doubt the Democratic Party had a hand in it as well. 

Buses transporting people to the city’s cost at least $1,000 each, not many anti-war groups have the funds to manage as many as 50 buses. This info. courtesy of Kevin Zeese.

Flyers, information, communication it all takes effort and funds to happen. Did the media report them? I’m curious as to whether CNN reported any of it. 

I was in Manila, my friends were all Muslims from places such as Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Bangladesh, etc. they read Al Jazeera, I watched CNN International every evening and mornings. No mention of any anti-war movement, and we were very concerned. I did have one Supervisor, Malaysian Chinese, who had very close connections with the US Embassy, who informed me January 2002, that there was no stopping US intervention in Iraq, the Pentagon had already made their moves. 

As Francis Boyle has reported when he, Ramsey Clark, and John Conyers suggested Impeachment of Bush, and Cheney, in DC, to prevent intervention in Iraq, they were told by John Podesta of the DNC No, because they the Democrats wanted to use the war issue for the next election. I leave it to Francis to edit or correct my quote.

My point is, the Democratic Party wanted to give the appearance of being “anti-war” by orchestrating a mass demonstration as they did against Trump during his inaugural. They had no fear it would be effective, given all that was taking place with their support. 


> On Jun 29, 2017, at 09:33, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> I think the anti-war demonstrations before the invasion of Iraq - the largest in history, here and abroad - were largely spontaneous and owed little to the Democratic party.
> 
> Alex Cockburn once said that the US ruling class could be taken by surprise about once every ten years: after 2003, they worked hard to see that it would not happen again - or as it had 40 years before. In the vanguard of the ant-anti-war movement was the cooptive Obama presidential campaign. (See Obama’s ‘even-handed’ account of  'the sixties’ in 'The Audacity of Hope.’) Its success (and the fiction that the Democrats were an anti-war party) put paid to the attempt to construct a popular movement against the US attacks on SW Asia, as there had once been a poular movement against the US attacks on SE Asia.
> 
> We should work while there is light, with the surmise that the dark is coming, is which no one can work...
> 
> —CGE
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I just realized that attempting to convince “socialists,” especially those affiliated with the ISO, that support for so called rebels in Syria is support for US imperialism, is a lost cause. I have provided many with Rick Sterlings excellent and comprehensive article in Counterpunch dated September, 2016 critiquing Ashley Smith of the ISO. Those who have been with the ISO seem to be robotic in their responses, asking what is meant by “elected” without going any further into the article to examine the evidence, of US support for the so-called rebels. 
>> 
>> I knew there was something wrong with the ISO during my seven months with them in 2011. The way they conduct their meetings, which isn’t conducive to conversation or any brain storming, and the way they assign books to be read and discussed, all books are of course Hay Market, which is fine, but there was little analysis of the readings, unlike that which we had at the Reading Groups that Carl held. 
>> 
>> Little focus was on anything up to date, and our extended group in support of international uprisings, supported the uprisings in Libya against the government, without any information or background. I left both groups, about that time, for various reasons. One of the members returned to Egypt, after a brief stint at Georgetown U. International Relations Dept., which raised a red flag with me, and shortly there after she was urging support for the coup against the Muslim Brotherhood candidate who had been democratically elected after the removal of Mubarak.
>> 
>> Having lived out of the country for so long, I missed a lot of what was happening in the US, but I think the answer to Jeffrey’s question, “what happened to the left anti-war movement,” is that socialist and left groups who in the past were the initiators of the anti-war movement have been infiltrated by government lackey’s over the years, in an effort to lobotomize potential, young left leaning anti-war protestors. 
>> 
>> I suspect the largest mass movement against war after 9/11 was conducted by the Democrat Party, just as they were behind the ladies with their pink pussy hats at the Trump inaugural. These lobotomized people, won’t make a move without “recognized leadership” and the Democrats have the funds to make it happen.  I now understand why we can get 3,000 people out to protest something Trump said, but do nothing when he bombs and continues war. 
>> 
>> The original feminist movement should have ended years ago, the LGBT movement should have ended when Gays were given the right to marry. Gender neutral bathrooms cause more problems than they eliminate, see Chris Hedges latest interview “On Contact,” and are trivial in the scheme of things.  
>> 
>> I have to ask myself why did I return to this nation of war and hegemony, high cost of healthcare, millions of disenfranchised and homeless, domestic shootings daily, and crappy food, even big Mac’s are better in China. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 04:39, Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> abetting every drone strike
>>> ---------------
>>> Yeah, just like the entire College of Law Faculty did here by bringing in Killer Koh, Obama's Droner in Chief.
>>> Fab.
>>> 
>>> Francis A. Boyle
>>> Law Building
>>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>>> (personal comments only)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 9:12 PM
>>> To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; Jeffrey St Clair <sitka at comcast.net>
>>> Cc: peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>; peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Jeffrey St.Clair of Counterpunch:
>>> 
>>> The Democrats have co-opted and eviscerated the anti-war movement for two generations, from Johnson (“no wider war’) to Obama (“no dumb wars”) - while they expanded the killing.
>>> 
>>> The Democrat war party is responsible for the duplicitous and fantastical anti-Russia movement - "aligning itself fatally with some of the most bloodthirsty hawks on the Hill and in doing so …  abetting every drone strike, Cruise missile and MOAB bomb…”
>>> 
>>> The anti-war movement should have nothing to do with them, unless they agree to demand all US troops (and weapons) be brought home.
>>> 
>>> —CGE
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Jeffrey St Clair writes:
>>>> I used to believe that rightwing militarism would be countered by a liberated and reanimated anti-war movement that had refused to confront liberal wars. But where is it now? Where are the mass protests against Trump's expanding wars in Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the new re-surge in Afghanistan? Where are the protest against the rising slaughter of civilians? Where indeed. The liberal antiwar movement has morphed into an anti-Russia movement, aligning itself fatally with some of the most bloodthirsty hawks on the Hill and in doing so is abetting every drone strike, Cruise missile and MOAB bomb Trump drops.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>