[Peace-discuss] Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific

Tue Nov 14 04:57:22 UTC 2017

A ground force invasion, sure, why not? The US has no problem with that. 
Losing? When have we actually won? After all, perpetual war, means selling a lot of weapons, killing a lot of people, destroying a lot of infrastructure, land and agriculture, and we keep our opponents on the defensive, distracted, worn down. and broke. 
Maybe we can actually move that 38th parallel further north? As long as we fight wars on other peoples territories……what have we got to lose but lives…..What will the Chinese do? No, they won’t like it, but they’ll keep on building that “Silk Road” in spite of us. 

> On Nov 13, 2017, at 20:40, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> No one can be wrong all the time. Rogin (whom I'm told speaks good Japanese…) here is merely reporting on Bannon’s interview with Robert Kuttner. 
> 
> Bannon is clearly correct.
> 
> I’ve been reading the WaPo since I was young (& knew some of the family). I don’t think I have many illusions about it. 
> 
> But just as one once read Pravda to see what the Party was thinking, so now one reads the WaPo to see what the War Party is thinking.
> 
> If the US nukes NK, I’ll apologize. 
> 
> A Pentagon brass-hat said the other day that the only way to ‘secure’ NK’s nukes was a ground invasion. That actually seems more likely to me than a US nuclear attack.
> 
> But China wouldn't like it, and the last time the US tried it, it didn’t work. —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 9:42 PM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hope you are right. But SecWar Mad Dog Mattis disagrees with you.  SecWar Mad Dog Mattis was asked this same question in ROK. He said the Pentagon had options to take out DPRK with no retaliation on  Seoul. I take it he was indirectly referring to nuking them, which Trump openly  threatening them with “fire and fury,” and everyone knew that meant nukes. So the Pentagon does have such an option as confirmed by Mad Dog publicly. As for  citing anyone from WAPO, and especially Rogin,Carl you should know better than  to rely upon WAPO Fake News. Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> From: C G Estabrook [mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 9:26 PM
>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; C. G. ESTABROOK <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; Jay <futureup2us at gmail.com>; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; Joe Lauria <joelauria at gmail.com>; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; abass10 at gmail.com; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; Arlene Hickory <a23h23 at yahoo.com>; Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; mickalideh at gmail.com; Lina Thorne <lina at worldcantwait.net>; chicago at worldcantwait.net
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 
>> [Josh Rogin WAPO August 17] In Washington, a “Kinsley gaffe” is when someone tells an obvious truth that isn’t supposed to be said. Such was the case when White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon told a reporter, in an interview published Wednesday, that there is no viable military option for stopping North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs.
>> 
>> Bannon’s view is that any preemptive attack on North Korea would result in horrendous casualties in South Korea and elsewhere and therefore cannot be seriously considered. That view is shared by many officials, former officials and North Korea experts... 
>> 
>> By publicly declaring that the U.S. threat of military force in North Korea is a bluff, Bannon may have undermined the credibility of that threat. He may also have nudged the United States toward a more diplomacy-focused approach and reduced the risk of war.
>> 
>> “There’s no military solution [to North Korea’s nuclear threats], forget it,” Bannon told the American Prospect. “Until somebody solves the part of the equation that shows me that 10 million people in Seoul don’t die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons, I don’t know what you’re talking about, there’s no military solution here, they got us.”
>> 
>> For many North Korea watchers, Bannon was simply acknowledging a reality that the parties involved already understood; there is no viable scenario in which the United States could initiate a first strike against Pyongyang.
>> 
>> “He’s absolutely right,” said former North Korea nuclear negotiator Joel S. Wit. “This is not a credible threat, and it really hasn’t been since the 1990s. We’ve been pretending it’s credible, but it really isn’t.”
>> 
>> Such a move would guarantee devastating retaliation by Kim Jong Un against South Korea, Japan and the tens of thousands of U.S. troops there. Moreover, there’s no real way to be confident a U.S.-led military strike could destroy all of the dispersed and hidden components of North Korea’s illicit programs.
>> 
>> Throw on top of that the danger that Kim could use a nuclear weapon, and it’s clear the United States can’t strike first. It’s likely a coincidence, but South Korean President Moon Jae-in also publicly declared that the military option is not on the table this week.
>> 
>> “I can confidently say there will not be a war again on the Korean Peninsula,” Moon said. “The U.S. and President Trump also said, no matter what option they take about North Korea, all decisions will be made after consulting with and getting agreement with the Republic of Korea,” he added...
>> 
>> Wit said that since the North Koreans understand the military dynamics as well as anyone, that threat was never really credible in the first place.
>> 
>> “They figured out a long time ago the U.S. isn’t going to do anything,” he said. “Bannon may have undermined our pressure campaign, but the threat of military force has been a diminishing tool all along.”
>> 
>> The larger effect could be that the Trump administration could now coalesce around a more diplomacy-focused strategy and move closer to direct negotiations with Pyongyang. Although Bannon didn’t specify his preferred policy, the alternative to attacking is clear: continuing to increase diplomatic and financial pressure on North Korea while exploring the chance for dialogue.
>> 
>> The United States and North Korea have maintained a quiet diplomatic channel over the past months that could be used to set up more substantial negotiations. The Trump team has told foreign interlocutors that it remains open to negotiations with Pyongyang under the right conditions.
>> 
>> Whether or not Bannon intended his remarks to be public, his warnings about the foolishness of attacking North Korea are correct, and they might even be helpful…
>> 
>> Josh Rogin is a columnist for the Global Opinions section of The Washington Post. He writes about foreign policy and national security. Follow @joshrogin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> The USG and the US Media have so demonized DPRK and KJU that the Pentagon could probably get away with nuking them and everyone would cheer. Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign, IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> From: Boyle, Francis A 
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:29 PM
>> To: 'C G Estabrook' <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
>> Cc: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; C. G. ESTABROOK <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Joe Lauria <joelauria at gmail.com>; Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; Arlene Hickory <a23h23 at yahoo.com>; Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; Lina Thorne <lina at worldcantwait.net>; chicago at worldcantwait.net; Jay <futureup2us at gmail.com>; David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>; Mildred O'brien <moboct1 at aim.com>
>> Subject: RE: Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 
>> It is possible if the Pentagon nukes them. Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign, IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> From: C G Estabrook [mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:19 PM
>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; C. G. ESTABROOK <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Joe Lauria <joelauria at gmail.com>; Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; Arlene Hickory <a23h23 at yahoo.com>; Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; Lina Thorne <lina at worldcantwait.net>; chicago at worldcantwait.net; Jay <futureup2us at gmail.com>; David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>; Mildred O'brien <moboct1 at aim.com>
>> Subject: Re: Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 
>> And Steve Bannon pointed out the impossibility of military action against N. Korea:
>> 
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fjosh-rogin%2Fwp%2F2017%2F08%2F17%2Fbannon-is-right-about-north-korea%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Ccdc581ee0a194f647c0908d52b19d8da%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636462312365577814&sdata=gS3tQrrmd8BRjvKK8TUnJ4dR2wau6sGMyq7J3MYnw%2BU%3D&reserved=0>
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 5:14 PM, Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, thanks Carl. That's the way I see it too. I guess we shall see what happens. There was some Air Force General on the Tube a while ago saying we could take out DPRK in 4 hours. But the only way they could do that would be with nukes. Would not put it past them. Trump's speech about "fire and fury" clearly implied using nukes. So it is on their Radar Screen. Fab. 
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign, IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C G Estabrook [mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:10 PM
>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>> Cc: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>; Miller, Joseph Thomas <jtmiller at illinois.edu>; sherwoodross10 at gmail.com; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; C. G. ESTABROOK <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; a-fields at uiuc.edu; Hoffman, Valerie J <vhoffman at illinois.edu>; Joe Lauria <joelauria at gmail.com>; Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net; Szoke, Ron <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; Arlene Hickory <a23h23 at yahoo.com>; Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>; abass10 at gmail.com; mickalideh at gmail.com; Lina Thorne <lina at worldcantwait.net>;chicago at worldcantwait.net; Jay <futureup2us at gmail.com>; David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>; Mildred O'brien <moboct1 at aim.com>
>> Subject: Re: Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 
>> I think this is quite right. Obama’s ‘pivot’ - war provocations vs. China - remains the War Party’s policy. 
>> 
>> They’re terribly afraid Trump will abandon it (and other pro-war policies) & so want to drive him from office. 
>> 
>> Brzezinski explicitly references Mackinder. US foreign policy makers learn nothing & forget nothing.
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> This massive concentration of US naval forces had to have been planned and war-gamed far in advance of Trump by the Pentagon, probably going back to Obama launching his Pivot to Asia, which is really a Pivot against China, under the influence of his Guru Brzezinski as explained in his Grand Chessboard. Fab.
>> 
>> Francis A. Boyle
>> Law Building
>> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
>> Champaign, IL 61820 USA
>> 217-333-7954 (phone)
>> 217-244-1478 (fax)
>> (personal comments only)
>> 
>> From: U.S. Department of Defense 
>> [mailto:govdelivery at subscriptions.dod.mil]
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:45 PM
>> To: Boyle, Francis A <fboyle at illinois.edu>
>> Subject: Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western 
>> Pacific
>> 
>> You are subscribed to News Articles for U.S. Department of Defense. This information has recently been updated, and is now available.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 11/13/2017 03:04 PM CST
>> 
>> 
>> The USS Ronald Reagan, USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS Nimitz Strike 
>> Groups transit the Western Pacific with ships from the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force in the Western Pacific, Nov. 12, 2017. The three aircraft carriers and their strike groups are conducting operations in international waters as part of a strike force exercise. The Navy has patrolled the Indo-Asia-Pacific region routinely for more than 70 years promoting regional security, stability and prosperity. Navy photo by Petty Officer 3rd Class Anthony J. Rivera (Click photo for screen-resolution image);high-resolution imageavailable.
>> Three-Carrier Strike Force Conducts Exercise in Western Pacific
>> 
>> By Lisa Ferdinando
>> 
>> DoD News, Defense Media Activity
>> 
>> WASHINGTON, Nov. 13, 2017 — A three-carrier naval force is finishing a multi-day exercise in the Western Pacific, demonstrating the Navy's unique capability to operate multiple carrier strike groups as a coordinated effort, according to Navy officials.
>> 
>> “The United States Navy is the only force in the world able to carry out such an exercise,” a Navy official told DoD News.
>> 
>> The exercise features the aircraft carriers USS Ronald Reagan, USS Nimitz, and USS Theodore Roosevelt and includes air defense drills, sea surveillance, replenishments at sea, defensive air combat training, close-in coordinated maneuvers and other training, Navy officials said.
>> 
>> Ships from Japan and South Korea joined the exercise, officials said.
>> 
>> Triple Aircraft Carrier Training
>> 
>> "It is a rare opportunity to train with two aircraft carriers together, and even rarer to be able to train with three," the U.S. Pacific Fleet commander, Navy Adm. Scott Swift, said in a U.S. 7th Fleet release.
>> 
>> "Multiple carrier strike force operations are very complex,” Swift said.
>> 
>> He added, “This exercise in the Western Pacific is a strong testament to the U.S. Pacific Fleet's unique ability and ironclad commitment to the continued security and stability of the region."
>> 
>> The exercise is the first time three carrier strike groups have operated together in the Western Pacific since exercises Valiant Shield 2006 and 2007 off the coast of Guam, according to Navy officials.
>> 
>> Officials point out Navy aircraft carriers more recently have conducted dual-carrier strike group operations in the Western Pacific including in the South China Sea, East China Sea and Philippine Sea.
>> 
>> These exercises typically happen when an aircraft carrier deployed to the 7th Fleet area of operations joins with the carrier based in Japan. In this instance, the Nimitz was finishing a deployment in the 5th Fleet area -- the Persian Gulf -- and the Roosevelt was relieving it. The Reagan -- homeported in Japan -- joined the other two carriers, which are based in the Western United States.
>> 
>> (Follow Lisa Ferdinando on Twitter: @FerdinandoDoD)
>> 
>> Related Links
>> 
>> U.S. Pacific Command
>> Special Report: DoD Focus on the Asia-Pacific
>> 
> 