[Peace-discuss] Inside Dershowitz

[Karen Aram]

Anne, 

Thats very good. Thank you for your “Medea Benjamin” act, so proud you yelled at him for his statement, I was pleased you attended so you could relate what took place, nauseating though it must have been. Too bad it wasn’t caught on film and doubtful it will change the minds of his supporters attending the program. Those very same, very ugly people making accusations of hate towards Palestinians.

To clarify, no we were not at any other program during the day, only this one in the evening. There were other demonstrators, marchers passing through the other end of the Quad, they were the “Take Back the Night Group” perhaps, chanting for a “safe” campus. 

Carl, of course is ignoring the fact that the protestors made speeches, well written, well thought out speeches clarifying our wars, and Dershowitz influence and support for them. He will of course promote you yelling at Dershowitz, while diminishing the very “International Rights lawyer” you referred to, as well as the very well informed young people making speeches in order to influence the American people. 

I pose the question, why is one who claims to be anti-war so insistent on not uniting, not growing the movement, by continually criticizing others who peacefully demonstrate against war? Why would one opposing war not attend or join with some of these groups? Why would this same person insist on “free speech” for neo nazi’s, government paid trolls, and nasty individuals as we have had attacking those who advocate for peace, attacking all those who make the effort to save lives, yet choose to criticize those whose cause, he claims to support?

Engaging in this type of discourse, is such a waste of time, fighting among ourselves is exactly what the government wants us to do, divide and conquer. 

I will say no more. 


> On Apr 27, 2018, at 04:34, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hard work indeed, and I admire those willing to make the effort to demonstrate against US crimes and their apologists. But the bromide is right, that the cure for bad speech is more speech - like yours. That’s what we should be encouraging. There should be answers to what Dershowitz was saying.
> 
> With your permission, I’lll quote (anonymously) your comments on the evening on 'News from Neptune’ today. —CGE 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2018, at 11:36 PM, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote:
>> 
>> I will have to think about your question, Carl. I was not at the earlier presentation at the business school unfortunately. I am under the impression many AWARE and other protesters were at both- hard work- harder than I could do.Most of the signs said U. S. Out of the Middle East or Out of Syria; there was the now famous Warmonger sign , and Imagine Peace. So the anti-war theme was evident. D. was clear on his stance on war with Syria being fine and war with Iran probably inevitable- because, you know, Iran might get a nuclear weapon. Part of the audience was there from Chabad. Part of the audience looked my age or older. Definitely some (not a lot) Chinese, Korean, Hispanic, Palestinian, black students listening as D. announced that their countries of ethnic heritage had worse human rights records.So maybe 2/3 in his camp or under his spell as he told dinner table anecdotes whenever he did not want to answer a question. What bothers me is of course what bothers everyone. Put protesters over in a corner, keep everyone nice and neat, contained, say that everyone needs to let someone have free speech and then give the platform to someone representing the death of free speech. Orwellian. So when D.said that no one out in the protests knew anything about the real situation in Israel, I yelled that we had an International Rights lawyer on our side. It does sound a bit like a playground fight- he started it. Except that is what they are- bullies with weapons. 
>> 
>> Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> ------ Original message------
>> From: Karen Aram
>> Date: Thu, Apr 26, 2018 11:08 PM
>> To: Carl G. Estabrook;
>> Cc: Francis A Boyle;bjornsona at ameritech.net;Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net);
>> Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] Inside Dershowitz
>> 
>> Carl, your extreme negativity towards others, attempting to do anything, you haven’t suggested, or participated in, is really becoming a bore.
>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2018, at 20:49, Carl G. Estabrook 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is it fair to say that the audience at tonight's lecture come away with a substantive if specious defense of Israel - and the knowledge that some faculty and students think Dershowitz shouldn't have been invited to speak? 
>>> 
>>> If so, that's not a victory. (Perhaps in a playground fight…) —CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 26, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Boyle, Francis A via Peace-discuss 
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Dersh chickening out was really the highlight of my day.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, my thanks to all for making this happen and especially Karen working so hard behind the scenes—as usual. Fab.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Boyle, Francis A 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 8:47 PM
>>>> To: 
>> 'bjornsona at ameritech.net' ; Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net) 
>> 
>>>> Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Inside Dershowitz
>>>> 
>>>> Just got back home. Dersh and his Entourage were off to the side and about to the walk towards the front door of the Foellinger Auditorium. He saw us and chickened out. So he skedaddled towards the back door and entered there somewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Hey! Hey!
>>>> 
>>>> Dershowitz say!
>>>> 
>>>> How many kids!
>>>> 
>>>> Did you kill today!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks to everyone who came. And Damn this  Nazi College of Law for inviting this war criminal and torture-mongerer in order to stink up our Campus and Community.
>>>> 
>>>> Fab.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace-discuss [mailto
>> :peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
>> ] On Behalf Of bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 8:20 PM
>>>> To: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss 
>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Inside Dershowitz
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dershowitz patronizing our protests outside. Obviously felt he had to address it. The interviewer be g an with softball ?s and got tougher. D. keeps regressing to Germany, Germany, Germany and 1947 and how badly the Jews have been treated. Living in the past century.  Hated Obama in Middle East. Interviewer really ticked him off asking about 2 states
>>>> 
>