From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 01:22:27 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 20:22:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [New post] As Long As Assange Is Silenced, Claims Against Him Are Illegitimate References: <139971992.5018.0@wordpress.com> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Caitlin Johnstone > Subject: [New post] As Long As Assange Is Silenced, Claims Against Him Are Illegitimate > Date: July 31, 2018 at 7:58:44 PM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > > New post on Caitlin Johnstone > > > As Long As Assange Is Silenced, Claims Against Him Are Illegitimate by Caitlin Johnstone > As attempts to evict Julian Assange from the Ecuadorian embassy in London get more and more aggressive , we are seeing a proportionate increase in the establishment smear campaign against him and against WikiLeaks. This is not a coincidence. > > The planned campaign to remove Assange from political asylum and the greatly escalated smear campaign to destroy public support for Assange are both occurring at the same time that Assange has been cut off from the world without internet, phone calls or visitors, completely unable to defend himself from the smear campaign. This, also, is not a coincidence. > > The ability to control the narrative about what is going on in the world is of unparalleled importance to the plutocrats who use governments as tools to advance their agendas. The agenda to make an example of a leak publisher with a massive platform who has repeatedly exposed the corruption of the establishment upon which western plutocrats have built their empires will require continuous narrative spin, since the precedent set by prosecuting a journalist for publishing authentic documents would arguably constitute a greater leap in the direction of Orwellian dystopia than the Patriot Act. > > WikiLeaks is run by an anti-Semitic alt-right troll, leaked DMs from its Twitter account show. How embarrassing for people who celebrated this organization. https://t.co/wx2ltLEvCW > — Michael Weiss (@michaeldweiss) July 31, 2018 > Among the latest components of this campaign has been a viral dump of Twitter DMs being promoted as a hot news item by outlets like Motherboard , The Hill , Forbes and Think Progress and across #Resistance Twitter . The fact that the juicy bits from those DMs had already been published months ago by The Intercept, and the fact that the smears and spin we're seeing reruns of today were long ago ripped to shreds in journalist Suzie Dawson's epic essay "Being Julian Assange " after the Intercept publication, has not dampened the orgiastic frenzy with which this non-story is being bandied about by establishment loyalists and defenders of power as evidence of Assange's nefariousness. > > This is entirely illegitimate. It is not legitimate to make claims about someone who has been deliberately deprived of the ability to defend himself. It is not legitimate to spin a narrative about someone whose ability to participate in that narrative has been deliberately cut off. You don't get to silence a man and then legitimately take over the public narrative about him. That is not a valid thing to do. > > But that of course is the idea. By cutting Assange off from internet access, phone calls and visitors, he has been deprived of the ability to give his side of the story in another interview with Fox News, for example, or in tweets to his millions of followers, thus making his side of the story mainstream knowledge. Every voice has been shoved off the stage but that of the political and media establishment which just so happens to be owned and operated by the same powerful oligarchs who want Assange silenced and prosecuted for challenging their rule. This is not a coincidence. > > Since the start of 2018, a US -linked fake news campaign has started in Ecuador, with the admitted goal of having @JulianAssange arrested. > > Good example here, with many easily proven fabrications. e.g In fact WikiLeaks published more than 1000 Ecuadorian intelligence docs. https://t.co/qniH7GMMRe > — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) July 31, 2018 > UK state TV's John Sweeney put in charge of tomorrow's Julian Assange special despite (because of?) dozens of tweets in clear breach of BBC code: #Newsnight https://t.co/eAhAwTr8rC > — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) July 31, 2018 > I have said it before and I will say it again: whoever controls the narrative controls the world. If you can control the stories that the public are telling themselves about what's going on in the world, you control the public itself. So many of the plutocratic establishment's most aggressive spin campaigns recently have been about securing narrative control in a new media environment with unprecedented public internet access, from constant warnings about "fake news" and "conspiracy theories", to fearmongering about "Russian bots" and "Russian propaganda", to promoting and legitimizing the persecution of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks. The empire hates Assange because he punches holes in their ability to control the narrative, and thus control the public, and they have silenced him to deprive him of the ability to control his own narrative about himself. > > Every claim made about Assange since his silencing in late March of this year can therefore be safely dismissed by the public on general principles. As long as they are rigging the debate in their favor, the debate is invalid. Literally any attack on or criticism of Assange being promoted in public discourse can legitimately be dismissed with "Assange has been deprived of his ability to defend himself from that accusation. As long as he is cut off from the world, that's an invalid accusation to make." > > Feel free to say this to every blue-checkmarked establishment crony on social media who is bravely kicking Assange while his hands and feet are tied behind his back. Their smear campaign is intrinsically invalid, and they should be told so at every opportunity. > > Those steeped in corruption do not fight fairly or with honour. > > Their weapon of choice is smear. They use this to undermine support for honest courageous citizens standing up for freedom & democracy. > > What they fear more than anything else is an informed public!#FreeAssange > — Mrs. Christine Assange (@AssangeMrs) July 26, 2018 > ___________________ > > The best way to make sure you see the stuff I publish is to get on the mailing list for my website , which will get you an email notification for everything I publish. My articles are entirely reader-supported, so if you enjoyed this piece please consider sharing it around, liking me on Facebook , following my antics on Twitter , checking out my podcast , throwing some money into my hat onPatreon or Paypal , or buying my book Woke: A Field Guide for Utopia Preppers . > > > > Bitcoin donations:1Ac7PCQXoQoLA9Sh8fhAgiU3PHA2EX5Zm2 > > Caitlin Johnstone | August 1, 2018 at 12:58 am | Tags: caitlin johnstone , ecuador , julian assange , MSM , Oligarchy , wikileaks | Categories: Article | URL: https://wp.me/p9tj6M-1iW > Comment See all comments > > Unsubscribe to no longer receive posts from Caitlin Johnstone. > Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions . > > Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: > https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/01/as-long-as-assange-is-silenced-claims-against-him-are-illegitimate/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Wed Aug 1 12:26:43 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 08:26:43 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] retraction: MORE FOR THE RECORD In-Reply-To: <164eb5d9b12-c8f-df6@webjas-vad119.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <164f5746711-c8a-1f973@webjas-vaa185.srv.aolmail.net> I might have added to the 3 Senators named below who in 1968 opposed the VN war the name of Congressman Ron Dellums who came to office 2 years later, my favorite Congressman (succeeded as my favorite Congressman by Dennis Kucinich some 25 years later).  I came to know Dellums, a fellow DSOCer and eloquent antiwar, anti-racialist socialist activist, who died Monday.  R.I.P.  Yesterday's DemocracyNow! ran a fitting tribute to him. I amend George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past [accurately] are doomed to repeat it,"  or regret it... Midge   -----Original Message----- From: Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss To: galliher ; naiman ; cgestabrook Cc: peace-discuss Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 8:26 am Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction: MORE FOR THE RECORD There WAS a lone voice in Congress in 1968 regarding the Vietnam war, in fact three that I know of: Senator Eugene J. McCarthy, Senator Ernest Grueling (Alaska) and Senator Wayne Morse (Oregon).  There might have been others in Congress but these were outstanding in my recollection. -----Original Message----- From: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss To: Robert Naiman ; C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss List Sent: Sat, Jul 28, 2018 3:42 pm Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction Too bad about Lee & Khanna.  But can't a single voice (or a few) be dismissed as a malcontent, and irrelevant? (Look what was done to Ron Paul.) There wasn't a lone voice in Congress in 1968 regarding Vietnam (or later Cambodia). There was a national mood, in Congress, and out of it, that something was very wrong. The sort of thing Bernie Sanders should be saying now. Fifty years ago that was led by student protest. Universities have had two generations to scotch that, and they've been successful. They were taken by surprise in the '60s, and they won't let that happen again. (Cue Steve Salaita.) Perhaps BLM et al. can be the new catalyst. Black Agenda Report consistently exposes the warmongering, even of a black president & Congressional caucus. BAR is not misled by identity politics, which the Democrats particularly want to use to distract from their neolib & neocon policies - more war and more inequality.   In regard to the current US wars, we surely need people who follow Rosa Luxemburg’s advice, from a century ago: “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” --CGE From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 3:02 PM To: C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss List Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction I don't know. I would like to think that we can push for the introduction in the House and Senate when they return in September of bills invoking the War Powers Resolution to force floor votes on ending U.S. participation in the Yemen war. I think we could win a floor vote in the House, and I think that would be a big deal. Maybe we could even win a floor vote in the Senate, and that would be an even bigger deal. But I am worried that we won't be able to build enough pressure to make this happen, given the dominant mood in Washington now that the only things that people should care about are things that help one team or the other in election mobilization.  But one thing I am pretty sure of is that we would much be better off now if we had replaced Dennis Kucinich in the House as an anti-war champion, a leader of anti-war efforts, on the Democratic side when he left DC in 2012. And that, belatedly, we should try to figure out who the new Dennis Kucinich can be. I'm sure it's not Barbara Lee. I'm sure it's not Ro Khanna. But who it is I don't yet know.  I'm trying to write something about this... Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 2:27 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: What are effective ways now to demand Congress end that war? And the others? The US is making war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, and of course Syria, as well as Yemen. Thousands of U.S. troops are killing people in these countries, and more than a quarter of a million are stationed in a thousand US bases on foreign soil, most of them ringing Russia and China. The 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in no less than three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder.    But the US government - cannier now than 50 years ago - has actively avoided the rise of popular outrage. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war in Vietnam as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. And that mass opposition compelled the business community and then the government to stop the escalation of the war. But the propaganda shield is more sophisticated now, from Russiagate to Trump Derangement Syndrome. What Is To Be Done? —CGE On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: I wouldn't have argued with Carl so strongly about the proposition that the world would be better off or worse off if Dems take the House if I had not believed at the time that Dems would help us end the U.S.-Saudi war in Yemen. I agree with him completely about the horrible ick of Dems becoming the anti-Russia party. I was quite certain that was outweighed by the possibility of ending the war in Yemen, which has pushed millions of human beings to the edge of starvation, and will push ten million more to the edge of starvation by the end of the year if it is not stopped.  I don't believe that anymore. I don't believe anymore that Dems are going to help us end the war in Yemen. I believed that because that's what I was told by people whom I had good reason to trust. But they reneged. So now that's an open question for me; maybe they will, maybe they won't, but I have no basis for believing that they will.  Thus, I don't care anymore if Dems take the House.  _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 13:18:26 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 08:18:26 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] retraction: MORE FOR THE RECORD In-Reply-To: <164f5746711-c8a-1f973@webjas-vaa185.srv.aolmail.net> References: <164f5746711-c8a-1f973@webjas-vaa185.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <88259F5C-D152-436F-8B67-F1F1C1B18BBC@gmail.com> Requiescat in pace. DN runs a tribute to Dellums while it promotes Russiagate? > On Aug 1, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Mildred O'brien wrote: > > I might have added to the 3 Senators named below who in 1968 opposed the VN war the name of Congressman Ron Dellums who came to office 2 years later, my favorite Congressman (succeeded as my favorite Congressman by Dennis Kucinich some 25 years later). I came to know Dellums, a fellow DSOCer and eloquent antiwar, anti-racialist socialist activist, who died Monday. R.I.P. Yesterday's DemocracyNow! ran a fitting tribute to him. > > I amend George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past [accurately] are doomed to repeat it," or regret it... > > Midge > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss > To: galliher ; naiman ; cgestabrook > Cc: peace-discuss > Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2018 8:26 am > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction: MORE FOR THE RECORD > > There WAS a lone voice in Congress in 1968 regarding the Vietnam war, in fact three that I know of: Senator Eugene J. McCarthy, Senator Ernest Grueling (Alaska) and Senator Wayne Morse (Oregon). There might have been others in Congress but these were outstanding in my recollection. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss > > To: Robert Naiman >; C G Estabrook > > Cc: Peace-discuss List > > Sent: Sat, Jul 28, 2018 3:42 pm > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction > > Too bad about Lee & Khanna. But can't a single voice (or a few) be dismissed as a malcontent, and irrelevant? (Look what was done to Ron Paul.) > > There wasn't a lone voice in Congress in 1968 regarding Vietnam (or later Cambodia). There was a national mood, in Congress, and out of it, that something was very wrong. The sort of thing Bernie Sanders should be saying now. > > Fifty years ago that was led by student protest. Universities have had two generations to scotch that, and they've been successful. They were taken by surprise in the '60s, and they won't let that happen again. (Cue Steve Salaita.) > > Perhaps BLM et al. can be the new catalyst. Black Agenda Report consistently exposes the warmongering, even of a black president & Congressional caucus. BAR is not misled by identity politics, which the Democrats particularly want to use to distract from their neolib & neocon policies - more war and more inequality. > > In regard to the current US wars, we surely need people who follow Rosa Luxemburg’s advice, from a century ago: “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” > > --CGE > From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net ] on behalf of Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net ] > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 3:02 PM > To: C G Estabrook > Cc: Peace-discuss List > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] retraction > > I don't know. I would like to think that we can push for the introduction in the House and Senate when they return in September of bills invoking the War Powers Resolution to force floor votes on ending U.S. participation in the Yemen war. I think we could win a floor vote in the House, and I think that would be a big deal. Maybe we could even win a floor vote in the Senate, and that would be an even bigger deal. But I am worried that we won't be able to build enough pressure to make this happen, given the dominant mood in Washington now that the only things that people should care about are things that help one team or the other in election mobilization. > > But one thing I am pretty sure of is that we would much be better off now if we had replaced Dennis Kucinich in the House as an anti-war champion, a leader of anti-war efforts, on the Democratic side when he left DC in 2012. And that, belatedly, we should try to figure out who the new Dennis Kucinich can be. I'm sure it's not Barbara Lee. I'm sure it's not Ro Khanna. But who it is I don't yet know. > > I'm trying to write something about this... > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 2:27 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > What are effective ways now to demand Congress end that war? And the others? > > The US is making war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, and of course Syria, as well as Yemen. Thousands of U.S. troops are killing people in these countries, and more than a quarter of a million are stationed in a thousand US bases on foreign soil, most of them ringing Russia and China. The 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in no less than three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder. > > But the US government - cannier now than 50 years ago - has actively avoided the rise of popular outrage. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war in Vietnam as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. And that mass opposition compelled the business community and then the government to stop the escalation of the war. > > But the propaganda shield is more sophisticated now, from Russiagate to Trump Derangement Syndrome. > > What Is To Be Done? —CGE > > > On Jul 28, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > I wouldn't have argued with Carl so strongly about the proposition that the world would be better off or worse off if Dems take the House if I had not believed at the time that Dems would help us end the U.S.-Saudi war in Yemen. I agree with him completely about the horrible ick of Dems becoming the anti-Russia party. I was quite certain that was outweighed by the possibility of ending the war in Yemen, which has pushed millions of human beings to the edge of starvation, and will push ten million more to the edge of starvation by the end of the year if it is not stopped. > > I don't believe that anymore. I don't believe anymore that Dems are going to help us end the war in Yemen. I believed that because that's what I was told by people whom I had good reason to trust. But they reneged. So now that's an open question for me; maybe they will, maybe they won't, but I have no basis for believing that they will. > > Thus, I don't care anymore if Dems take the House. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 17:50:30 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 17:50:30 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Article in the Public I by Belden Fields offers "lessons learned." Message-ID: The 1968 Revolt in France: A Fifty-Year Retrospective Posted on June 2018 by Belden Fields [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/After-the-street-battle-e1527729039941-225x300.jpg] The rue Gay Lussac, in the Latin Quarter, after the confrontation between the students and the police. In early June, 1968, I witnessed the second round of the student and worker revolt of May and June, but I had been studying student politics in France since 1963. I can only give a sketchy account of the revolt and what led up to it in this short article. For greater detail, the reader might consult my book Student Politics in France, and my essay “The Revolution Betrayed: The French Student Revolt of May-June 1968” in S. M. Lipset and P. G. Altbach, Students in Revolt. What initially began as a student revolt against the banning of political activity and visits by the opposite sex in dorms rooms in the newly created campus at Nanterre, just outside of Paris, eventuated in barricades and violent street battles with the police and then in a general strike in which between nine and ten million workers walked off the job and brought the country to a halt. For many of the students, the goal went from liberalization of the hierarchical university to overthrowing the government of President De Gaulle. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/standing-up-to-the-police-e1527729064415-300x225.jpg] A police charge on the Blvd. St. Michel, also in the Latin Quarter. What Preceded the Revolt But there was a backstory to the antagonism between the students and the Gaullist government. The major student union, UNEF (Union Nationale des Etudiants de France), had taken a position against the attempt of the French government to repress the independence movement in Algeria. France considered Algeria to be not just a colony but an integral part of France, although for most of the time the Arab and Berber population was not permitted to vote. Moreover, the French police and army regularly used torture on real or suspected independence fighters. For UNEF, which had been very passive during the Nazi occupation of northern France and the Vichy puppet regime in the south of the country, there was a moral imperative to stand up to what was morally right this time. But the costs were high. The Gaullist government suspended the students’ governmental stipend, removed them from seats on advisory councils, banned demonstrations and arrested those who broke the ban, and created a rival national student organization. All of this began soon after the Fifth Republic was founded in 1958, but it lasted well after the Algerian War finished in 1962. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/De-Gaulle-Uou-just-vote-and-Ill-take-care-of-the-rest-1-225x300.jpg] A poster of DeGaulle, holding a club behind his back, while patting France on its head, saying: “You just keep voting and I will take care of the rest.” So there were two general sources of student alienation: the political system and the educational system. In terms of the latter, the issue was not just the prohibition of political activity and visits of the opposite sex in the dorms, it was also the structure of the higher education system itself. The university system was highly inegalitarian. In 1963-64, only 13.8% of the eligible age group were students in higher education. In the U.S. it was 34%. Higher education was for the upper and upper-middle classes. This offended the sense of justice of many students, even if they were the ones who benefitted from it. Relations between the professors and the students were virtually nonexistent among the undergraduates. The typical form of instruction was a lecture in a huge room that did not have enough seats to accommodate all the students. Students who could not get into the lectures would have to purchase written copies of them. And the government cut off UNEF’s access to the Ministry of Education, where all of the educational decisions for each campus were made. The students also felt that the higher education system was woefully antiquated and underfunded. While job prospects for students in more specialized areas like commerce and public administration were more promising, they were poor for those taking degrees in the arts, literature, and social sciences. It was primarily students in these areas that were on the barricades. But they were also joined by some students in the secondary schools. Also on the side of the students, and sometimes on the barricades as well, were university teachers in a union, the National Union of Higher Education (SNESup), which claimed about 7,000 members, or one-third of the academics in France. The leaders of SNESup tended to be young, some of whom had recently passed through activism of their own in UNEF. SNESup’s Secretary General was one of the three most public people in the uprising, although he resigned his position in the union as his involvement intensified. The somewhat more conservative teachers’ union, the General Union of National Education (SGEN), which grouped teachers at all levels of education (of which only about 1,000 were university teachers), was more reserved, supporting some of the student demands but criticizing both the students and the police for the violence in the streets, and warning students that far left groups were trying to take control of the situation. The Students and Labor The relationship between the students and workers was more complex. The three major labor confederations took different positions. The French Democratic Federation of Labor (CFDT), which had been a liberal Catholic-inspired organization, was by far the most supportive of the student demands and actions, even though they were an affiliate of the more conservative SGEN! The most hostile labor confederation was the Communist-controlled General Confederation of Labor (CGT). They were very fearful of losing control over their own members, as the students reached out to those members for support. The Communist Party took very seriously Lenin’s admonition against what he regarded as infantile left-wing adventurism. The 1968 events were really spontaneous, out of the control of any organization with a political strategy. UNEF had issued demands on the government, but it did not call for, or organize, the violent battles in the streets. In fact, ultimately the spiral of confrontations led to the severe weakening of UNEF, whose leaders tried to keep up with the events but were increasing seen as irrelevant to the street action. The CGT and the Communist Party saw this all as leading to the strengthening of the Gaullist regime and legitimizing even more state repression. In between the CFDT and the CGT was another confederation, the General Confederation of Labor–Workers’ Force (CGT-FO), the smallest confederation, whose creation the CIA had supported to challenge the Communist-dominated CGT. Early on the CGT-FO denounced the violence of the students, but then it came around and joined the CFDT in supporting a major student rally on May 24. Like the student union UNEF, the labor unions were swamped by spontaneous worker strikes and plant takeovers, which brought the country to a virtual stand-still for several weeks. As a last desperate resort in putting down the revolt, President De Gaulle went to Germany, where he got General Massu, the Commander of the French troops in Germany, to agree to use his troops to put down the revolt if need be. Conclusion Ultimately, that was not needed. Public tolerance for the street confrontations waned and the workers went back to their jobs. Many of the governmental ministers who took a hard line against the students were transferred from their posts. And the government agreed to some of the university reforms that UNEF had been demanding, including greater local university autonomy and the creation of governing bodies with student representation. The regime survived, but De Gaulle overplayed his hand and went down to defeat in a referendum in April, 1969. In the longer term, the 1968 uprising paved the way for other emancipatory movements that arose or regenerated in the 1970s and 1980s, such as a vibrant women’s movement, and anti-racist, anti-imperialist, gay and lesbian liberation, and worker ownership and control movements. It also affected philosophy, the social sciences, journalism, and the arts, particularly the cinema. (For the enduring effect of the sixties on cinema, see Manohla Dargis and A. O. Scott, “Are We the Sequel to the 60s?,” New York Times, Arts and Leisure, pp. 30-31, 20 May 2018). All hierarchies were called into question in ways and intensities that they had not been before 1968. Perhaps the slogan that best captures the epoch was “C’est interdit d’interdire.” It is forbidden to forbid! This entry was posted in 1968 Revolt, France, Students. Bookmark the permalink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Wed Aug 1 18:07:25 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 18:07:25 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Article in the Public I by Belden Fields offers "lessons learned." In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203574@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> https://libcom.org/history/articles/france-1968 In summary, the events of May '68 in France were brought to an end by a massive wage increase and a credible threat of military force. Otherwise, the status quo ante was largely restored. --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:50 PM To: Peace Discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Article in the Public I by Belden Fields offers "lessons learned." The 1968 Revolt in France: A Fifty-Year Retrospective Posted on June 2018 by Belden Fields [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/After-the-street-battle-e1527729039941-225x300.jpg] The rue Gay Lussac, in the Latin Quarter, after the confrontation between the students and the police. In early June, 1968, I witnessed the second round of the student and worker revolt of May and June, but I had been studying student politics in France since 1963. I can only give a sketchy account of the revolt and what led up to it in this short article. For greater detail, the reader might consult my book Student Politics in France, and my essay “The Revolution Betrayed: The French Student Revolt of May-June 1968” in S. M. Lipset and P. G. Altbach, Students in Revolt. What initially began as a student revolt against the banning of political activity and visits by the opposite sex in dorms rooms in the newly created campus at Nanterre, just outside of Paris, eventuated in barricades and violent street battles with the police and then in a general strike in which between nine and ten million workers walked off the job and brought the country to a halt. For many of the students, the goal went from liberalization of the hierarchical university to overthrowing the government of President De Gaulle. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/standing-up-to-the-police-e1527729064415-300x225.jpg] A police charge on the Blvd. St. Michel, also in the Latin Quarter. What Preceded the Revolt But there was a backstory to the antagonism between the students and the Gaullist government. The major student union, UNEF (Union Nationale des Etudiants de France), had taken a position against the attempt of the French government to repress the independence movement in Algeria. France considered Algeria to be not just a colony but an integral part of France, although for most of the time the Arab and Berber population was not permitted to vote. Moreover, the French police and army regularly used torture on real or suspected independence fighters. For UNEF, which had been very passive during the Nazi occupation of northern France and the Vichy puppet regime in the south of the country, there was a moral imperative to stand up to what was morally right this time. But the costs were high. The Gaullist government suspended the students’ governmental stipend, removed them from seats on advisory councils, banned demonstrations and arrested those who broke the ban, and created a rival national student organization. All of this began soon after the Fifth Republic was founded in 1958, but it lasted well after the Algerian War finished in 1962. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/De-Gaulle-Uou-just-vote-and-Ill-take-care-of-the-rest-1-225x300.jpg] A poster of DeGaulle, holding a club behind his back, while patting France on its head, saying: “You just keep voting and I will take care of the rest.” So there were two general sources of student alienation: the political system and the educational system. In terms of the latter, the issue was not just the prohibition of political activity and visits of the opposite sex in the dorms, it was also the structure of the higher education system itself. The university system was highly inegalitarian. In 1963-64, only 13.8% of the eligible age group were students in higher education. In the U.S. it was 34%. Higher education was for the upper and upper-middle classes. This offended the sense of justice of many students, even if they were the ones who benefitted from it. Relations between the professors and the students were virtually nonexistent among the undergraduates. The typical form of instruction was a lecture in a huge room that did not have enough seats to accommodate all the students. Students who could not get into the lectures would have to purchase written copies of them. And the government cut off UNEF’s access to the Ministry of Education, where all of the educational decisions for each campus were made. The students also felt that the higher education system was woefully antiquated and underfunded. While job prospects for students in more specialized areas like commerce and public administration were more promising, they were poor for those taking degrees in the arts, literature, and social sciences. It was primarily students in these areas that were on the barricades. But they were also joined by some students in the secondary schools. Also on the side of the students, and sometimes on the barricades as well, were university teachers in a union, the National Union of Higher Education (SNESup), which claimed about 7,000 members, or one-third of the academics in France. The leaders of SNESup tended to be young, some of whom had recently passed through activism of their own in UNEF. SNESup’s Secretary General was one of the three most public people in the uprising, although he resigned his position in the union as his involvement intensified. The somewhat more conservative teachers’ union, the General Union of National Education (SGEN), which grouped teachers at all levels of education (of which only about 1,000 were university teachers), was more reserved, supporting some of the student demands but criticizing both the students and the police for the violence in the streets, and warning students that far left groups were trying to take control of the situation. The Students and Labor The relationship between the students and workers was more complex. The three major labor confederations took different positions. The French Democratic Federation of Labor (CFDT), which had been a liberal Catholic-inspired organization, was by far the most supportive of the student demands and actions, even though they were an affiliate of the more conservative SGEN! The most hostile labor confederation was the Communist-controlled General Confederation of Labor (CGT). They were very fearful of losing control over their own members, as the students reached out to those members for support. The Communist Party took very seriously Lenin’s admonition against what he regarded as infantile left-wing adventurism. The 1968 events were really spontaneous, out of the control of any organization with a political strategy. UNEF had issued demands on the government, but it did not call for, or organize, the violent battles in the streets. In fact, ultimately the spiral of confrontations led to the severe weakening of UNEF, whose leaders tried to keep up with the events but were increasing seen as irrelevant to the street action. The CGT and the Communist Party saw this all as leading to the strengthening of the Gaullist regime and legitimizing even more state repression. In between the CFDT and the CGT was another confederation, the General Confederation of Labor–Workers’ Force (CGT-FO), the smallest confederation, whose creation the CIA had supported to challenge the Communist-dominated CGT. Early on the CGT-FO denounced the violence of the students, but then it came around and joined the CFDT in supporting a major student rally on May 24. Like the student union UNEF, the labor unions were swamped by spontaneous worker strikes and plant takeovers, which brought the country to a virtual stand-still for several weeks. As a last desperate resort in putting down the revolt, President De Gaulle went to Germany, where he got General Massu, the Commander of the French troops in Germany, to agree to use his troops to put down the revolt if need be. Conclusion Ultimately, that was not needed. Public tolerance for the street confrontations waned and the workers went back to their jobs. Many of the governmental ministers who took a hard line against the students were transferred from their posts. And the government agreed to some of the university reforms that UNEF had been demanding, including greater local university autonomy and the creation of governing bodies with student representation. The regime survived, but De Gaulle overplayed his hand and went down to defeat in a referendum in April, 1969. In the longer term, the 1968 uprising paved the way for other emancipatory movements that arose or regenerated in the 1970s and 1980s, such as a vibrant women’s movement, and anti-racist, anti-imperialist, gay and lesbian liberation, and worker ownership and control movements. It also affected philosophy, the social sciences, journalism, and the arts, particularly the cinema. (For the enduring effect of the sixties on cinema, see Manohla Dargis and A. O. Scott, “Are We the Sequel to the 60s?,” New York Times, Arts and Leisure, pp. 30-31, 20 May 2018). All hierarchies were called into question in ways and intensities that they had not been before 1968. Perhaps the slogan that best captures the epoch was “C’est interdit d’interdire.” It is forbidden to forbid! This entry was posted in 1968 Revolt, France, Students. Bookmark the permalink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 18:47:14 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:47:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Feminism under capitalism Message-ID: <825760C4-8FE8-4DB5-92E8-B10E39E167CC@gmail.com> [This brilliant comment by Prof. Luciana Bohne is far better than the article it graces. It exposes a paramount example of identity politics: substitute IDENTITY for CLASS as the object of Left concern - shift attention from exploitation to discrimination - and the 1% needn't worry. "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers” (Thomas Pynchon).] Keep it simple, is propaganda's #1 rule. So we have these women in the 70s, asking for equal pay, maternity leave, remuneration for housework and pensions and child bearing, child benefits, free childcare--and all this cuts into profits. So, let's get them to switch focus from the body politics to plain bodies: fixate them on the body--pleasure and violence. Ipso facto: postfeminism. In capitalism, especially neoliberal capitalism, the body, like everything else--nature, for example-- is a marketable asset, something one "invests in" Detach feminists from their focus on the economic, social, and political--and restrict it to the personal and the individual. Mission accomplished in the 1980s--the backlash, posing as sexual liberation. But, of course, if you get women to demand freedom for their bodies, the state no longer matters. The state is not the problem. So who is? Men. Thus women no longer challenge the state. Mission accomplished: target deflected; women blame men. Divide and conquer. So, now, there is a backlash to that division, further dividing the men/women dichotomy. What is it: Menism. That is to say, women who oppose women who blame men for their sexual victimhood. As I said: rule #1 of propaganda is simplicity. Women resent men; men resent women. They cannot bother the state no more. They're too busy fighting each other, Here we have an example: the author of this article is a member of the American Enterprise think-tank, a neo-con body. She takes Andrea Dworkin, who represented an essentialist version of feminism called "radical feminism." This essentialism simply inverted the older patriarchal paradigm men/women in which women were the subjected, lesser part of the dualism--and made it women/men. A paradigm of subjection. Somehow, matriarchal societies would be better because women BY NATURE are genetically morally superior to men. You can't be more unscientific than this. But millions buy it. It's simple, you see. Sexism is no longer a category that benefits capitalism. Sexism is no longer, like racism, a strategy of profit and exploitation. No, capitalism gets off scot-free. Dworkin represented only a branch of feminist theory, but this author presents it as feminism tout court. Straw man argument, I'd say. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11527238/Meet-the-feminist-who-is-sticking-up-for-men.html ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 19:34:00 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 19:34:00 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [ufpj-activist] National Geographic: The World Has Left Yemen to Die References: Message-ID: >From Robert Naiman: From: Robert Naiman > Subject: [ufpj-activist] National Geographic: The World Has Left Yemen to Die Date: August 1, 2018 at 10:28:25 PDT To: ufpj-activist > The headline is kind of misleading. This is a U.S. war. We could have tried to stop it. But the DC liberals didn't want to. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/08/dispatches-yemen-health-crisis/ The World Has Left Yemen to Die Exclusive photos give a rare look inside the country, where civil war has trapped civilians in a life of violence and disease. BY NINA STROCHLIC PHOTOGRAPHS BY MATTEO BASTIANELLI This story appears in the August 2018 issue of National Geographic magazine. === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 _______________________________________________ ufpj-activist mailing list Guidelines: %(http://www.unitedforpeace.org/listserv-community-guidelines) Post: ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/ufpj-activist To Unsubscribe Send email to: ufpj-activist-unsubscribe at lists.mayfirst.org Or visit: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/ufpj-activist/karenaram%40hotmail.com You are subscribed as: karenaram at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:03:15 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:03:15 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Article in the Public I by Belden Fields offers "lessons learned." In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203574@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203574@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Buy outs, threats of military action, and most of the people who supported the workers, becoming easily tired of the violence and chaos in the streets. This to me is critical, as its been witnessed time and again, people want their lives back asap, they want streets cleared for traffic, and they fear chaos and violence. That is why “chaos” is a goal of the USG in foreign nations, to bring down governments, when we wish to acquire regime change. Also to be noted, the US CIA set up a university organization to counter the Student Union political activists. We know the CIA was active in Latin America and the Middle East as early as the 50’s, but operating within the University arena, of a European ally? Seems a bit trivial, but if it was doing it then, just imagine what it’s doing now. This should not “paralyze” us from taking action, but it should encourage us to be alert and do thorough research when we engage with groups or organizations to ensure they are not distracting us from USG FP, a sure sign of questionable motivations. On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:07, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: https://libcom.org/history/articles/france-1968 In summary, the events of May '68 in France were brought to an end by a massive wage increase and a credible threat of military force. Otherwise, the status quo ante was largely restored. --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 12:50 PM To: Peace Discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Article in the Public I by Belden Fields offers "lessons learned." The 1968 Revolt in France: A Fifty-Year Retrospective Posted on June 2018 by Belden Fields [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/After-the-street-battle-e1527729039941-225x300.jpg] The rue Gay Lussac, in the Latin Quarter, after the confrontation between the students and the police. In early June, 1968, I witnessed the second round of the student and worker revolt of May and June, but I had been studying student politics in France since 1963. I can only give a sketchy account of the revolt and what led up to it in this short article. For greater detail, the reader might consult my book Student Politics in France, and my essay “The Revolution Betrayed: The French Student Revolt of May-June 1968” in S. M. Lipset and P. G. Altbach, Students in Revolt. What initially began as a student revolt against the banning of political activity and visits by the opposite sex in dorms rooms in the newly created campus at Nanterre, just outside of Paris, eventuated in barricades and violent street battles with the police and then in a general strike in which between nine and ten million workers walked off the job and brought the country to a halt. For many of the students, the goal went from liberalization of the hierarchical university to overthrowing the government of President De Gaulle. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/standing-up-to-the-police-e1527729064415-300x225.jpg] A police charge on the Blvd. St. Michel, also in the Latin Quarter. What Preceded the Revolt But there was a backstory to the antagonism between the students and the Gaullist government. The major student union, UNEF (Union Nationale des Etudiants de France), had taken a position against the attempt of the French government to repress the independence movement in Algeria. France considered Algeria to be not just a colony but an integral part of France, although for most of the time the Arab and Berber population was not permitted to vote. Moreover, the French police and army regularly used torture on real or suspected independence fighters. For UNEF, which had been very passive during the Nazi occupation of northern France and the Vichy puppet regime in the south of the country, there was a moral imperative to stand up to what was morally right this time. But the costs were high. The Gaullist government suspended the students’ governmental stipend, removed them from seats on advisory councils, banned demonstrations and arrested those who broke the ban, and created a rival national student organization. All of this began soon after the Fifth Republic was founded in 1958, but it lasted well after the Algerian War finished in 1962. [http://publici.ucimc.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/De-Gaulle-Uou-just-vote-and-Ill-take-care-of-the-rest-1-225x300.jpg] A poster of DeGaulle, holding a club behind his back, while patting France on its head, saying: “You just keep voting and I will take care of the rest.” So there were two general sources of student alienation: the political system and the educational system. In terms of the latter, the issue was not just the prohibition of political activity and visits of the opposite sex in the dorms, it was also the structure of the higher education system itself. The university system was highly inegalitarian. In 1963-64, only 13.8% of the eligible age group were students in higher education. In the U.S. it was 34%. Higher education was for the upper and upper-middle classes. This offended the sense of justice of many students, even if they were the ones who benefitted from it. Relations between the professors and the students were virtually nonexistent among the undergraduates. The typical form of instruction was a lecture in a huge room that did not have enough seats to accommodate all the students. Students who could not get into the lectures would have to purchase written copies of them. And the government cut off UNEF’s access to the Ministry of Education, where all of the educational decisions for each campus were made. The students also felt that the higher education system was woefully antiquated and underfunded. While job prospects for students in more specialized areas like commerce and public administration were more promising, they were poor for those taking degrees in the arts, literature, and social sciences. It was primarily students in these areas that were on the barricades. But they were also joined by some students in the secondary schools. Also on the side of the students, and sometimes on the barricades as well, were university teachers in a union, the National Union of Higher Education (SNESup), which claimed about 7,000 members, or one-third of the academics in France. The leaders of SNESup tended to be young, some of whom had recently passed through activism of their own in UNEF. SNESup’s Secretary General was one of the three most public people in the uprising, although he resigned his position in the union as his involvement intensified. The somewhat more conservative teachers’ union, the General Union of National Education (SGEN), which grouped teachers at all levels of education (of which only about 1,000 were university teachers), was more reserved, supporting some of the student demands but criticizing both the students and the police for the violence in the streets, and warning students that far left groups were trying to take control of the situation. The Students and Labor The relationship between the students and workers was more complex. The three major labor confederations took different positions. The French Democratic Federation of Labor (CFDT), which had been a liberal Catholic-inspired organization, was by far the most supportive of the student demands and actions, even though they were an affiliate of the more conservative SGEN! The most hostile labor confederation was the Communist-controlled General Confederation of Labor (CGT). They were very fearful of losing control over their own members, as the students reached out to those members for support. The Communist Party took very seriously Lenin’s admonition against what he regarded as infantile left-wing adventurism. The 1968 events were really spontaneous, out of the control of any organization with a political strategy. UNEF had issued demands on the government, but it did not call for, or organize, the violent battles in the streets. In fact, ultimately the spiral of confrontations led to the severe weakening of UNEF, whose leaders tried to keep up with the events but were increasing seen as irrelevant to the street action. The CGT and the Communist Party saw this all as leading to the strengthening of the Gaullist regime and legitimizing even more state repression. In between the CFDT and the CGT was another confederation, the General Confederation of Labor–Workers’ Force (CGT-FO), the smallest confederation, whose creation the CIA had supported to challenge the Communist-dominated CGT. Early on the CGT-FO denounced the violence of the students, but then it came around and joined the CFDT in supporting a major student rally on May 24. Like the student union UNEF, the labor unions were swamped by spontaneous worker strikes and plant takeovers, which brought the country to a virtual stand-still for several weeks. As a last desperate resort in putting down the revolt, President De Gaulle went to Germany, where he got General Massu, the Commander of the French troops in Germany, to agree to use his troops to put down the revolt if need be. Conclusion Ultimately, that was not needed. Public tolerance for the street confrontations waned and the workers went back to their jobs. Many of the governmental ministers who took a hard line against the students were transferred from their posts. And the government agreed to some of the university reforms that UNEF had been demanding, including greater local university autonomy and the creation of governing bodies with student representation. The regime survived, but De Gaulle overplayed his hand and went down to defeat in a referendum in April, 1969. In the longer term, the 1968 uprising paved the way for other emancipatory movements that arose or regenerated in the 1970s and 1980s, such as a vibrant women’s movement, and anti-racist, anti-imperialist, gay and lesbian liberation, and worker ownership and control movements. It also affected philosophy, the social sciences, journalism, and the arts, particularly the cinema. (For the enduring effect of the sixties on cinema, see Manohla Dargis and A. O. Scott, “Are We the Sequel to the 60s?,” New York Times, Arts and Leisure, pp. 30-31, 20 May 2018). All hierarchies were called into question in ways and intensities that they had not been before 1968. Perhaps the slogan that best captures the epoch was “C’est interdit d’interdire.” It is forbidden to forbid! This entry was posted in 1968 Revolt, France, Students. Bookmark the permalink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 01:53:08 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:53:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Message-ID: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for Congress: Obama didn’t endorse her. > —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 15:28:50 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:28:50 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: Facebook censors anti-fascist rally in Washington In-Reply-To: References: , <164fa5a23bd-c89-24df2@webjas-vac248.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <009f01d42a75$83dd36c0$8b97a440$@comcast.net> You know... I've heard little from VFP about Chelsea Manning's campaign for U.S. Senate. I've heard plenty about Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez. It's just like when Cindy Sheehan announced her run against Nancy Pelosi. One minute she was the darling of VFP and the next... persona non gratis. To this day, Cindy has been a tireless activist but VFP has ignored her. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/08/02/cens-a02.html Image removed by sender. Facebook censors anti-fascist rally in Washington www.wsws.org The campaign to censor the internet, initially presented as a response to alleged Russian "meddling," is increasingly targeting left-wing political viewpoints. Image removed by sender. Facebook censors anti-fascist rally in Washington www.wsws.org The campaign to censor the internet, initially presented as a response to alleged Russian "meddling," is increasingly targeting left-wing political viewpoints. Facebook censors anti-fascist rally in Washington Image removed by sender. Facebook censors anti-fascist rally in Washington www.wsws.org The campaign to censor the internet, initially presented as a response to alleged Russian "meddling," is increasingly targeting left-wing political viewpoints. By Andre Damon 2 August 2018 The social media giant Facebook carried out a major escalation in the campaign to censor the Internet Monday, deleting the official event page for an anti-fascist rally scheduled for August 12 in Washington, D.C. on the grounds that it was engaged in "coordinated inauthentic behavior." The event, entitled "No Unite the Right 2 - DC," was scheduled as a counter-protest to a fascist demonstration called for August 12 by the organizers of last year's Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, during which a right-wing extremist murdered counter-protestor Heather Heyer. The rally's organizers include Chelsea Manning, the whistleblower imprisoned and tortured for six years by the Obama administration for revealing American war crimes. Manning told the New York Times the demonstration was "real and organic," declaring "Folks from D.C. and Charlottesville have been talking about this since at least February." Image removed by sender.The No Unite the Right 2 - DC rally removed by Facebook While Facebook shuts down left-wing pages, groups and events with growing regularity, this latest action is particularly significant both because of its prominence-a major demonstration likely to draw large numbers of participants-and because Facebook has publicly boasted about it. The closure of the event page was a centerpiece of a blog post published Tuesday by Facebook outlining its efforts to crack down on groups aiming to "sow division using social media" ahead of the 2018 election. In addition to shutting down the rally's event page, Facebook announced that it had shut down 32 other pages, including those opposing police violence and defending immigrant rights. The announcement was framed as a follow-up to the company's announcement in September 2017 that "Russia-linked" Facebook pages bought some $100,000 in ads related to "divisive social issues." In addition to serving as a pretext for major new censorship measures by Facebook, the 2017 announcement was connected to allegations by the Democratic Party that US President Trump "colluded" with the Russian government to win the 2016 election. However, with the Democrats' anti-Russia campaign increasingly bogged down by the bitter factional battle in Washington, it appears that those sections of the state apparatus leading the drive to censor the Internet are hoping to decouple their efforts from allegations about Russian "meddling." Facebook and its outgoing Chief Security Officer Alex Stamos explicitly declined to attribute the claims to the Russian government. "Today we're shutting down 32 Pages and accounts engaged in coordinated inauthentic behavior without saying that a specific group or country is responsible," Stamos wrote in a post accompanying its announcement. While the alleged "Russian" ads described by Facebook in 2017 included statements in support of both sides of the political spectrum, the latest batch of pages shut down were all left-wing, including those opposing police violence, attacks on immigrant rights, and the Trump administration's right-wing policies. On Monday, the day before Facebook announced that it had shut down the page, the company turned its latest blacklist over to the Atlantic Council, a prominent military think-tank. Its analysis makes clear that Facebook is deliberately targeting left-wing groups. Image removed by sender.An event published by one of the groups taken down by facebook The Atlantic Council's report said the pages shut down by Facebook targeted "the left of the political spectrum," and that the pages were an attempt to "infiltrate left-wing American communities." These pages "sought to promote divisions and set Americans against one another." Events created by "inauthentic" groups "did have a very real, organic, and engaged online community; however, the intent of the inauthentic activity appeared to be designed to catalyze the most incendiary impulses of political sentiment." These groups promoted "activism against fascism." One of the groups, according to the Atlantic Council, "created an event in protest of the Trump administration's policy of separating the children of undocumented migrants from their families." Another promoted event included "protests against U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), U.S. President Donald Trump's tax plan, protests against Trump's Muslim ban, and a 'March against rapist cops.'" At times, the Atlantic Council report adopts wholesale conceptions advanced by the fascist right, such as that left-wing protesters are the instigators of violence in clashes with fascists. In justifying the censorship of the Washington anti-fascist protest, the think-tank claimed its organizers "suggested a desire to provoke further confrontations and violence." In another instance, the report characterized Internet content "focusing on the plight of Native Americans and modern immigrants" as promoting "anti-white" viewpoints. Both Democratic and Republican lawmakers praised Facebook's action. Democratic Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, declared that the disclosure "is further evidence that the Kremlin continues to exploit platforms like Facebook to sow division and spread disinformation." Warner, who has led the campaign for censorship, ignored the fact that Facebook provided no evidence that Russia had anything to do with the pages. Facebook's latest action must be taken as an urgent warning. Two years after the start of the campaign to censor the Internet in the guise of fighting "fake news" spread by "Russian trolls," the social media giants, working with the US intelligence agencies, are increasingly making clear that their real target is left-wing political sentiment among growing sections of workers and young people. In so doing, they are following the path blazed by Google, which last year announced plans to censor "alternative" news, leading to a drop in search traffic to left-wing sites of up to 80 percent. With opposition growing among 260,000 UPS workers to a sellout contract being demanded by both their union and employer, a growing international strike movement among airline workers, and simmering anger among teachers and other sections of the working class in the US, the ruling class is concerned above all that workers will use the Internet not only to organize and coordinate their struggles, but to rally around a socialist perspective. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 692 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3032 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 800 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 15:43:43 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:43:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years In-Reply-To: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> References: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> Of course the Dems for U.S. House Obama endorsed in Illinois are all in the Chicago area. Three explanations for why he didn’t endorse Londrigan – He is too busy collecting $ 400,000 per hour corporate speaking engagement fees and gentrifying / evicting people in the neighborhood in Chicago where his Presidential library will be to bother mentioning any downstate candidates. She will be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of endorsements. He knows she has zero chance in winning against Davis so why bother. The main objective was to keep someone like David Gill from winning the primary. David J. From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:53 PM To: Peace Discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for Congress: Obama didn’t endorse her. —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Thu Aug 2 16:22:34 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 16:22:34 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years In-Reply-To: <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> References: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com>, <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203A95@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> But he probably would have endorsed Ebel, perhaps a more reliable war-monger than D-L. ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of David Johnson via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 10:43 AM To: 'C G Estabrook'; 'Peace Discuss' Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Of course the Dems for U.S. House Obama endorsed in Illinois are all in the Chicago area. Three explanations for why he didn’t endorse Londrigan – He is too busy collecting $ 400,000 per hour corporate speaking engagement fees and gentrifying / evicting people in the neighborhood in Chicago where his Presidential library will be to bother mentioning any downstate candidates. She will be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of endorsements. He knows she has zero chance in winning against Davis so why bother. The main objective was to keep someone like David Gill from winning the primary. David J. From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:53 PM To: Peace Discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for Congress: Obama didn’t endorse her. —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Fri Aug 3 03:55:35 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 09:55:35 +0600 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203A95@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203A95@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <12d085e3-6361-729b-2856-5192496cd0ff@pigs.ag> Rodney Davis really is a feckless piece of work. If you look up feckless in my dictionary, his picture is there. But BETSY (ross) (everett) DIRKSEN (wtf) Londrigan (rhymes with laundromat) is every bit as counterfeit and plastic as New York's barmaid turned overnight sensation. Londrigan even has that intense hyperthyroid exopthalmic deer-in-the-headlights pose as O-C. Every needs one now. I am told one can get that same look by mixing a little Tabasco into your Preparation-H. Some free advice for Dr. Gill. The electorate should be insulted if it warnt so fricken clueless. An endorsement from B-O would be about as useful as one from Hillary in Davis's district.  Sort of like tits on a boar. Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss wrote: > But he probably would have endorsed Ebel, perhaps a more reliable > war-monger than D-L. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on > behalf of David Johnson via Peace-discuss > [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 02, 2018 10:43 AM > *To:* 'C G Estabrook'; 'Peace Discuss' > *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 > 1/2 years > > Of course the Dems for U.S. House Obama endorsed in Illinois are all > in the Chicago area. > > Three explanations for why he didn’t endorse Londrigan – > > He is too busy collecting $ 400,000 per hour corporate speaking > engagement fees and gentrifying / evicting people in the neighborhood > in Chicago where his Presidential library will be to bother mentioning > any downstate candidates. > > She will be in the 2^nd or 3^rd tier of endorsements. > > He knows she has zero chance in winning against Davis so why bother. > The main objective was to keep someone like David Gill from winning > the primary. > > David J. > > *From:*Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] > *On Behalf Of *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:53 PM > *To:* Peace Discuss > *Subject:* [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years > > Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for > Congress: Obama didn’t endorse her. > > > > —CGE > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 03:00:12 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:00:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years In-Reply-To: <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> References: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8D1C62FB-F045-4921-A9DF-D6A9A9DA0229@gmail.com> David Sirota writes, "Obama not endorsing @Ocasio2018 is really a very clarifying thing. It shows that the rift in the Dem Party between the corporate and progressive wings isn’t some fiction that can be covered up by a #UniteBlue hashtag — the divide is quite real, and quite important.” Quizás. —CGE > On Aug 2, 2018, at 10:43 AM, David Johnson wrote: > > Of course the Dems for U.S. House Obama endorsed in Illinois are all in the Chicago area. > > Three explanations for why he didn’t endorse Londrigan – > > He is too busy collecting $ 400,000 per hour corporate speaking engagement fees and gentrifying / evicting people in the neighborhood in Chicago where his Presidential library will be to bother mentioning any downstate candidates. > > She will be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of endorsements. > > He knows she has zero chance in winning against Davis so why bother. The main objective was to keep someone like David Gill from winning the primary. > > David J. > > From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:53 PM > To: Peace Discuss > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years > > Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for Congress: Obama didn’t endorse her. > > > > —CGE From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 12:27:39 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 07:27:39 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Nursing Home/Champaign County Democrats update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there any chance of stopping the sale of the nursing home? And us that the right thing to do? > On Aug 3, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace wrote: > > https://www.facebook.com/robert.naiman/posts/10157487001082656 > > Last night the precinct captains in County Board Ten voted to slate Chris Stohr for the Robert King vacancy. I voted no. I voted no because after we appointed him to the County Board the last time, on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home, he voted to sell the Nursing Home. I have pledged not to support any Democrats who supported the sale of the Nursing Home. Saving the public nursing home was a top priority of Champaign County Democrats. We passed a resolution about it in the Central Committee, which I introduced. I am contemplating the idea of supporting a candidate to run as a write-in against Chris Stohr. I welcome your feedback on this idea. You can reply privately or publicly, as you like. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 13:01:43 2018 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 08:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Nursing Home/Champaign County Democrats update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If there is any chance now of stopping the sale of the Nursing Home, I don't claim to know what it is. For me personally the core of the question is about transparency and accountability of Democratic Party politicians to priorities that Democrats have articulated and that these politicians have pledged to support. Chris Stohr was previously slated on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home. As a County Board member, he voted to sell. Now we are slating him again. I feel a compulsion to protest somehow. I don't claim to be an expert on the Nursing Home. I don't think I should have to be an expert in order to participate. On the issues where I do claim expertise - U.S. foreign policy - I try to encourage the participation of people who don't know as much as I do. That is at the core of the "bring Schoolhouse Rock to U.S. foreign policy" project as I see it. The thing preoccupying me the most right now is the failure of Democrats in Washington who promised me they would try to force a vote in the House on ending the Saudi war in Yemen to follow through on their promise. I am trying to figure out what to do about that. Meanwhile, I see exactly the same pattern with the sale of the Nursing Home - Democrats breaking promises to Democrats. That situation is local, and I happen to be in the middle of it, as a precinct committee person. So I'm trying to figure out what to do about that. I haven't made any decision. That's why I asked for input. On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:27 AM, C G Estabrook wrote: > Is there any chance of stopping the sale of the nursing home? And us that > the right thing to do? > > > On Aug 3, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > https://www.facebook.com/robert.naiman/posts/10157487001082656 > > Last night the precinct captains in County Board Ten voted to slate Chris > Stohr for the Robert King vacancy. I voted no. I voted no because after we > appointed him to the County Board the last time, on the promise that he > would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home, he voted to sell the Nursing > Home. I have pledged not to support any Democrats who supported the sale of > the Nursing Home. Saving the public nursing home was a top priority of > Champaign County Democrats. We passed a resolution about it in the Central > Committee, which I introduced. I am contemplating the idea of supporting a > candidate to run as a write-in against Chris Stohr. I welcome your feedback > on this idea. You can reply privately or publicly, as you like. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 13:03:32 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 08:03:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years In-Reply-To: <12d085e3-6361-729b-2856-5192496cd0ff@pigs.ag> References: <95A007D2-E30E-4F9F-8766-3FA0DEE66A87@gmail.com> <00b901d42a77$98306410$c8912c30$@comcast.net> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB203A95@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> <12d085e3-6361-729b-2856-5192496cd0ff@pigs.ag> Message-ID: <003301d42b2a$62921a70$27b64f50$@comcast.net> Good bit of accurate humor Wayne. David J. From: E. Wayne Johnson [mailto:ewj at pigs.ag] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 10:56 PM To: Estabrook, Carl G; David Johnson; 'C G Estabrook'; 'Peace Discuss' Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Rodney Davis really is a feckless piece of work. If you look up feckless in my dictionary, his picture is there. But BETSY (ross) (everett) DIRKSEN (wtf) Londrigan (rhymes with laundromat) is every bit as counterfeit and plastic as New York's barmaid turned overnight sensation. Londrigan even has that intense hyperthyroid exopthalmic deer-in-the-headlights pose as O-C. Every needs one now. I am told one can get that same look by mixing a little Tabasco into your Preparation-H. Some free advice for Dr. Gill. The electorate should be insulted if it warnt so fricken clueless. An endorsement from B-O would be about as useful as one from Hillary in Davis's district. Sort of like tits on a boar. Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss wrote: But he probably would have endorsed Ebel, perhaps a more reliable war-monger than D-L. _____ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of David Johnson via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2018 10:43 AM To: 'C G Estabrook'; 'Peace Discuss' Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Of course the Dems for U.S. House Obama endorsed in Illinois are all in the Chicago area. Three explanations for why he didn't endorse Londrigan - He is too busy collecting $ 400,000 per hour corporate speaking engagement fees and gentrifying / evicting people in the neighborhood in Chicago where his Presidential library will be to bother mentioning any downstate candidates. She will be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of endorsements. He knows she has zero chance in winning against Davis so why bother. The main objective was to keep someone like David Gill from winning the primary. David J. From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 8:53 PM To: Peace Discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Our only federal vote for the next 2 1/2 years Dirksen-Londrigan is looking better in the local election for Congress: Obama didn't endorse her. -CGE _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri Aug 3 13:17:12 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 13:17:12 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Nursing Home/Champaign County Democrats update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As they say politics makes strange…… Stopping the sale of the Nursing Home and stopping the bombing and destruction of Yemen, are the right thing to do. I give Robert credit for attempting both. I’m sorry, I have no suggestions as to what one can do now in respect to either issue, other than for the American people to stand up to our Representatives and say “NO.” If anyone thinks they can make that happen, please do. On Aug 3, 2018, at 06:01, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: If there is any chance now of stopping the sale of the Nursing Home, I don't claim to know what it is. For me personally the core of the question is about transparency and accountability of Democratic Party politicians to priorities that Democrats have articulated and that these politicians have pledged to support. Chris Stohr was previously slated on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home. As a County Board member, he voted to sell. Now we are slating him again. I feel a compulsion to protest somehow. I don't claim to be an expert on the Nursing Home. I don't think I should have to be an expert in order to participate. On the issues where I do claim expertise - U.S. foreign policy - I try to encourage the participation of people who don't know as much as I do. That is at the core of the "bring Schoolhouse Rock to U.S. foreign policy" project as I see it. The thing preoccupying me the most right now is the failure of Democrats in Washington who promised me they would try to force a vote in the House on ending the Saudi war in Yemen to follow through on their promise. I am trying to figure out what to do about that. Meanwhile, I see exactly the same pattern with the sale of the Nursing Home - Democrats breaking promises to Democrats. That situation is local, and I happen to be in the middle of it, as a precinct committee person. So I'm trying to figure out what to do about that. I haven't made any decision. That's why I asked for input. On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:27 AM, C G Estabrook > wrote: Is there any chance of stopping the sale of the nursing home? And us that the right thing to do? On Aug 3, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace > wrote: https://www.facebook.com/robert.naiman/posts/10157487001082656 Last night the precinct captains in County Board Ten voted to slate Chris Stohr for the Robert King vacancy. I voted no. I voted no because after we appointed him to the County Board the last time, on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home, he voted to sell the Nursing Home. I have pledged not to support any Democrats who supported the sale of the Nursing Home. Saving the public nursing home was a top priority of Champaign County Democrats. We passed a resolution about it in the Central Committee, which I introduced. I am contemplating the idea of supporting a candidate to run as a write-in against Chris Stohr. I welcome your feedback on this idea. You can reply privately or publicly, as you like. _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 17:21:11 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:21:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Nursing Home/Champaign County Democrats update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003401d42b4e$602ea4a0$208bede0$@comcast.net> Bob, I complement you for being upset about this and wanting to do something about it. The only thing I suggest is to talk to as many Dems and other people you know and organize a push back against this and show up at the next meeting crowd in tow. Before then while you are organizing start a petition to send to the County committee. I would sign it and so would others in the community who normally wouldn’t want anything to do with the Dems. You are at the point where myself and others were in regards to frustration and anger at the Democrats back in the mid 1990’s. David Johnson From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Karen Aram via Peace Sent: Friday, August 03, 2018 8:17 AM To: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Cc: peace; Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace] Nursing Home/Champaign County Democrats update As they say politics makes strange…… Stopping the sale of the Nursing Home and stopping the bombing and destruction of Yemen, are the right thing to do. I give Robert credit for attempting both. I’m sorry, I have no suggestions as to what one can do now in respect to either issue, other than for the American people to stand up to our Representatives and say “NO.” If anyone thinks they can make that happen, please do. On Aug 3, 2018, at 06:01, Robert Naiman via Peace wrote: If there is any chance now of stopping the sale of the Nursing Home, I don't claim to know what it is. For me personally the core of the question is about transparency and accountability of Democratic Party politicians to priorities that Democrats have articulated and that these politicians have pledged to support. Chris Stohr was previously slated on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home. As a County Board member, he voted to sell. Now we are slating him again. I feel a compulsion to protest somehow. I don't claim to be an expert on the Nursing Home. I don't think I should have to be an expert in order to participate. On the issues where I do claim expertise - U.S. foreign policy - I try to encourage the participation of people who don't know as much as I do. That is at the core of the "bring Schoolhouse Rock to U.S. foreign policy" project as I see it. The thing preoccupying me the most right now is the failure of Democrats in Washington who promised me they would try to force a vote in the House on ending the Saudi war in Yemen to follow through on their promise. I am trying to figure out what to do about that. Meanwhile, I see exactly the same pattern with the sale of the Nursing Home - Democrats breaking promises to Democrats. That situation is local, and I happen to be in the middle of it, as a precinct committee person. So I'm trying to figure out what to do about that. I haven't made any decision. That's why I asked for input. On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:27 AM, C G Estabrook wrote: Is there any chance of stopping the sale of the nursing home? And us that the right thing to do? On Aug 3, 2018, at 6:46 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace wrote: https://www.facebook.com/robert.naiman/posts/10157487001082656 Last night the precinct captains in County Board Ten voted to slate Chris Stohr for the Robert King vacancy. I voted no. I voted no because after we appointed him to the County Board the last time, on the promise that he would oppose the sale of the Nursing Home, he voted to sell the Nursing Home. I have pledged not to support any Democrats who supported the sale of the Nursing Home. Saving the public nursing home was a top priority of Champaign County Democrats. We passed a resolution about it in the Central Committee, which I introduced. I am contemplating the idea of supporting a candidate to run as a write-in against Chris Stohr. I welcome your feedback on this idea. You can reply privately or publicly, as you like. _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 01:01:58 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 20:01:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Flyer to be distributed at the AWARE anti-war demonstration on Saturday, 4 August, 2-4pm, at Main & Neil in downtown Champaign Message-ID: <18BBE93B-5D1E-46AB-A391-C86837D785B9@gmail.com> ~ The U.S. is Illegally Making War in the Mideast ~ Pres. Trump: Bring U.S. Troops and Weapons Home ~ The U.S. military is today killing people in seven Mideast and African countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan. Thousands of U.S. troops are fighting in these countries, although most Americans don’t know that. In addition, the 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder. {Map with flags marking U.S. military bases encircling Iran} The U.S. government says that we’re fighting terrorism, but we are in fact creating terrorists - in response particularly to the drone assassinations, “the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times” (Noam Chomsky) - which have killed more than 5,000 people, including U.S. citizens and hundreds of children. Since the Second World War ended in 1945, the U.S. has killed more than twenty million people in wars in Asia, the Mideast and Latin America to maintain world-wide economic control. The U.S. doesn’t need oil from the Mideast, but Mideast gas and oil are needed by America’s economic competitors in Europe and Asia, and so control over them gives the U.S. a major advantage over China, Germany, and other countries - a chokehold which benefits only the American economic elite, the one percent. For that purpose, the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 and killed perhaps a million people, in the greatest crime of the century. The U.S. now has thousands of troops (and mercenaries) throughout the Mideast. Those of us in AWARE, like other anti-war groups in the United States and around the world, call upon President Trump to ~ (1) establish a foreign policy based on negotiation, international law, and human rights; ~ (2) end U.S. wars in the Mideast and war provocations against Russia (in Eastern Europe) and China (in the South China Sea), and stop the drone assassinations; ~ (3) cut military spending by at least 50% and close the more than 800 U.S. military bases on foreign soil (Russia has a dozen; China has one); bring all U.S. troops (and weapons) home; ~ (4) stop U.S. support for human rights abusers, notably Israel and Saudi Arabia; and ~ (5) lead on global nuclear disarmament. ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at ~ U.S. troops & weapons out of the Mideast ~ Medicare for all ~ Universal basic income ~ ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Sat Aug 4 11:51:08 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 06:51:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Flyer to be distributed at the AWARE anti-war demonstration on Saturday, 4 August, 2-4pm, at Main & Neil in downtown Champaign Message-ID: Like the map- we Americans need our geography-- plus the base locations are hidden from us in regular news. Like the emphasis on global nuclear disarmament! Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Fri, Aug 3, 2018 8:02 PMTo: Peace Discuss;Cc: peace;Subject:[Peace-discuss] Flyer to be distributed at the AWARE anti-war demonstration on Saturday, 4 August, 2-4pm, at Main & Neil in downtown Champaign ~ The U.S. is Illegally Making War in the Mideast ~ Pres. Trump: Bring U.S. Troops and Weapons Home ~ The U.S. military is today killing people in seven Mideast and African countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan. Thousands of U.S. troops are fighting in these countries, although most Americans don’t know that. In addition, the 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder. {Map with flags marking U.S. military bases encircling Iran} The U.S. government says that we’re fighting terrorism, but we are in fact creating terrorists - in response particularly to the drone assassinations, “the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times” (Noam Chomsky) - which have killed more than 5,000 people, including U.S. citizens and hundreds of children. Since the Second World War ended in 1945, the U.S. has killed more than twenty million people in wars in Asia, the Mideast and Latin America to maintain world-wide economic control. The U.S. doesn’t need oil from the Mideast, but Mideast gas and oil are needed by America’s economic competitors in Europe and Asia, and so control over them gives the U.S. a major advantage over China, Germany, and other countries - a chokehold which benefits only the American economic elite, the one percent. For that purpose, the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 and killed perhaps a million people, in the greatest crime of the century. The U.S. now has thousands of troops (and mercenaries) throughout the Mideast. Those of us in AWARE, like other anti-war groups in the United States and around the world, call upon President Trump to ~ (1) establish a foreign policy based on negotiation, international law, and human rights; ~ (2) end U.S. wars in the Mideast and war provocations against Russia (in Eastern Europe) and China (in the South China Sea), and stop the drone assassinations; ~ (3) cut military spending by at least 50% and close the more than 800 U.S. military bases on foreign soil (Russia has a dozen; China has one); bring all U.S. troops (and weapons) home;  ~ (4) stop U.S. support for human rights abusers, notably Israel and Saudi Arabia; and ~ (5) lead on global nuclear disarmament. ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at ~ U.S. troops & weapons out of the Mideast  ~ Medicare for all  ~ Universal basic income ~ ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Sat Aug 4 11:51:08 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2018 06:51:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Flyer to be distributed at the AWARE anti-war demonstration on Saturday, 4 August, 2-4pm, at Main & Neil in downtown Champaign Message-ID: Like the map- we Americans need our geography-- plus the base locations are hidden from us in regular news. Like the emphasis on global nuclear disarmament! Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Fri, Aug 3, 2018 8:02 PMTo: Peace Discuss;Cc: peace;Subject:[Peace-discuss] Flyer to be distributed at the AWARE anti-war demonstration on Saturday, 4 August, 2-4pm, at Main & Neil in downtown Champaign ~ The U.S. is Illegally Making War in the Mideast ~ Pres. Trump: Bring U.S. Troops and Weapons Home ~ The U.S. military is today killing people in seven Mideast and African countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan. Thousands of U.S. troops are fighting in these countries, although most Americans don’t know that. In addition, the 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder. {Map with flags marking U.S. military bases encircling Iran} The U.S. government says that we’re fighting terrorism, but we are in fact creating terrorists - in response particularly to the drone assassinations, “the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times” (Noam Chomsky) - which have killed more than 5,000 people, including U.S. citizens and hundreds of children. Since the Second World War ended in 1945, the U.S. has killed more than twenty million people in wars in Asia, the Mideast and Latin America to maintain world-wide economic control. The U.S. doesn’t need oil from the Mideast, but Mideast gas and oil are needed by America’s economic competitors in Europe and Asia, and so control over them gives the U.S. a major advantage over China, Germany, and other countries - a chokehold which benefits only the American economic elite, the one percent. For that purpose, the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq in 2003 and killed perhaps a million people, in the greatest crime of the century. The U.S. now has thousands of troops (and mercenaries) throughout the Mideast. Those of us in AWARE, like other anti-war groups in the United States and around the world, call upon President Trump to ~ (1) establish a foreign policy based on negotiation, international law, and human rights; ~ (2) end U.S. wars in the Mideast and war provocations against Russia (in Eastern Europe) and China (in the South China Sea), and stop the drone assassinations; ~ (3) cut military spending by at least 50% and close the more than 800 U.S. military bases on foreign soil (Russia has a dozen; China has one); bring all U.S. troops (and weapons) home;  ~ (4) stop U.S. support for human rights abusers, notably Israel and Saudi Arabia; and ~ (5) lead on global nuclear disarmament. ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at ~ U.S. troops & weapons out of the Mideast  ~ Medicare for all  ~ Universal basic income ~ ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sat Aug 4 21:07:10 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 21:07:10 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Chomsky_on_Nicaragua=E2=80=A6?= Message-ID: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> "Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime,” he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. Chomsky despairs, “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate situation.” Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists who did not “absolutely” support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor looks down on Nicaragua. These charges of corruption and such are addressedby long-time solidarity activist Chuck Kaufman: + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the violence of the more militant opposition. + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by growing margins.” From https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ —mkb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Sun Aug 5 00:58:20 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2018 19:58:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Chomsky_on_Nicaragua=E2=80=A6?= In-Reply-To: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> References: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <9793BF06-8B88-47E4-A99A-B644715E88DF@illinois.edu> Chomsky has been well-informed on Nicaragua for a long time. I wouldn’t disregard his views. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 4, 2018, at 4:07 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss wrote: > > "Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime,” he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. Chomsky despairs, “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate situation.” > Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists who did not “absolutely” support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor looks down on Nicaragua. > > These charges of corruption and such are addressedby long-time solidarity activist Chuck Kaufman: > > + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. > > + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the violence of the more militant opposition. > > + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by growing margins.” > > > From https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ > > —mkb > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Sun Aug 5 12:48:35 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 08:48:35 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Chomsky_on_Nicaragua=E2=80=A6?= In-Reply-To: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> References: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <1650a21d8c3-c88-64c@webjas-vad180.srv.aolmail.net> Sounds like CIA is working on killing 2 birds with one stone--Ortega and Maduro.  BBC has been running their propaganda, calling Maduro (who escaped a public assassination attempt by drone yesterday) an "authoritarian, senseless dictator." Midge -----Original Message----- From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss To: Peace Discuss Sent: Sat, Aug 4, 2018 4:07 pm Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on Nicaragua… "Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime,” he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. Chomsky despairs, “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate situation.” Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists who did not “absolutely” support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor looks down on Nicaragua. These charges of corruption and such are addressedby long-time solidarity activist Chuck Kaufman: + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the violence of the more militant opposition. + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by growing margins.” >From  https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ —mkb _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sun Aug 5 16:19:29 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:19:29 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: [socialistdiscussion] Right wing austerity comes to Ontario In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002701d42cd8$1660fcc0$4322f640$@comcast.net> by John Clarke, Ontario Coalition Against Poverty After fifteen years of Liberal Governments in Ontario, the Conservatives are back in power. The Liberal Party, ever the political chameleon, delivered a brand of austerity by stealth in progressive packaging. Now, however, the newly enthroned Tories will dispense with such pretensions and intensify the attack dramatically. In March of this year, the Ontario Tories, still in opposition, went through a leadership race that saw the Party Establishment lose out to maverick right wing populist, Doug Ford. Ford is a Toronto multimillionaire and former City Councillor whose deceased brother, Rob, made international headlines for his extraordinary behaviour while Mayor of the City. Comparisons abounded between Doug Ford and Donald Trump by no means without justification. Both are bigoted right wing rich men who make entirely groundless claims to speak for ordinary people. Both are attack dogs for the most ruthless and reckless elements within the ruling class. Outside of the suburban Toronto district he lives in and a quirky support base in the Tory Party, however, Ford’s populist following is probably less significant than that of Trump. June Election Campaign As the campaign for the June 7 Ontario Election unfolded, it was abundantly clear that the Liberals were a spent force. That they would be decimated was a foregone conclusion. The social democratic New Democratic Party (NDP), starting in third place, had consistently failed to offer a political alternative clearly to the left of the Liberals. No Corbyn like move to the left or rejuvenation of the Party base had occurred. Nonetheless, with the Liberals in trouble and a right wing Tory Party moving towards victory, the NDP leadership made a political calculation to move left. Several candidates with serious social activist backgrounds set a different stamp on the campaign. It was too little too late but the NDP doubled its number of seats in the Legislature and had the Ford Tories worried for a period. The Liberals were obliterated and reduced to a mere six seats that fail to qualify them for official party status. Ford won with a campaign that offered few details of his intentions and set of stock phrases drawn from the populist song book." Read entire article: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/08/05/right-wing-austerity-comes-to-ontario/ -- “In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook __._,_.___ _____ Posted by: John Reimann <1999wildcat at gmail.com> _____ Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1) _____ Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. _____ Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use SPONSORED LINKS . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 16:36:14 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:36:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Yemen, sex trafficking, etc. Message-ID: Indispensable 2-part (20 minute) interviews on Yemen in context--no transcripts yet. https://therealnews.com/series/the-saudi-us-agenda-behind-destroying-yemen As referred to on my contribution to News from Neptune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FvYcUq7tPY My comments on this issue begin at 15:30, but watch the whole program of course; comments welcome. News-Gazette article on sex trafficking, CIA, Navy Seals, etc.: http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-08-03/ileas-foundation-getting-100000-grant-help-fight-sex-trafficking.html 8/3/2018 ILEAS Foundation getting $100,000 grant to help fight sex trafficking Fri, 08/03/2018 - 7:00am | Mary Schenk (/author/mary-schenk) URBANA — *As dozens of police detectives sat behind computers Thursday in Urbana while learning the best ways to intercept childpornography peddlers and users, a retired federal agent who specialized in that for 25 years was around the corner announcing a $100,000 donation to help law enforcement in Illinois with that work. "Our mission is to save children from sex trafficking internationally and in the U.S.," said Jon Lines, operations president for Operation Underground Railroad. It's estimated that 40 million people worldwide — half of them children — are victims of sex trafficking, Lines said. "What used to happen on dark street corners and brothels is now happening online," Lines said of the sophisticated network of childsex trafficking, where most of the abused are victimized by "western, American males." The nonprofit group, funded by donations, teams up with law enforcement to find where those child victims are. Using former Navy SEALS, CIA agents and special-ops operatives, they arrange and carry out rescue missions, then work to reintegrate those victims into society, wherever they are. The Salt Lake City-based organization has 14 full-time paid staff members.* Since its inception in 2013, Lines said, the group has participated in the rescue of about 1,500 children and the arrests of about 500 child predators. On Thursday, it announced that it will give the Illinois Law Enforcement Alarm System Foundation $100,000 to dole out equipment for Illinois police to use in the fight against sex trafficking. "We don't want to see kids not saved because police don't have the resources," Lines said. ILEAS Executive Director Jim Page said the money will pay for laptop computers and specially designed software to ferret out child porn, much like the officers from Illinois and Indiana were using Thursday at the ILEAS training center. "This stuff is expensive," Page said of the software, unsure exactly what can be bought with $100,000. The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, part of state Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office, will decide what to buy with the gift and which police departments will get it, he said. "We are not paying for overtime or training," Page clarified. While Madigan's office can't accept gifts of cash, the ILEAS Foundation can and has the ability to buy in bulk, thus sharing the group's gift with more police departments. Lines said his organization is working to support law enforcement in 17 states in the United States as well as in Thailand, Mexico, Colombia, Uganda and India, to name a few other countries. "We are not some black-ops vigilantes. We go in through the front door," Lines said, adding that the group works only in areas where it is welcomed by law enforcement. Furthermore, it works only in areas where there are aftercare resources to help the rescued children, some of whom have no idea how to function in regular society and whose own parents may have sold them into slavery. 8/3/2018 ILEAS Foundation getting $100,000 grant to help fight sex trafficking | News-Gazette.com http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-08-03/ileas-foundation-getting-100000-grant-help-fight-sex-trafficking.html 3/3 The private contractors who do the rescues, he said, are usually former law enforcement or military members with the "right mind-set and motives" to deal with the "ugly" and "unsavory" side of child sex trafficking. "I thought I was made of metal. I've gone in as an operative myself," said Lines, recalling a rescue at a brothel in southeast Asia that included teenage girls the same age as his daughter. "I got home, and I broke down. It breaks your heart, and it's very difficult to recompose yourself." The group's promise, featured on its website, states: "To the children who we pray for daily, we say: Your long night is coming to an end. Hold on. We are on our way. And to those captors and perpetrators, even you monsters who dare offend God's precious children, we declare to you: Be afraid. We are coming for you." "The life of one child is priceless," Lines said. "Fifteen-hundred children on a path to recovery is exciting." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sun Aug 5 16:57:14 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 11:57:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Chomsky_on_Nicaragua=E2=80=A6?= In-Reply-To: <9793BF06-8B88-47E4-A99A-B644715E88DF@illinois.edu> References: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> <9793BF06-8B88-47E4-A99A-B644715E88DF@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <004901d42cdd$5ca94a20$15fbde60$@comcast.net> I DEFINITELY disagree with Chomsky on this issue ! He is not in Nicaragua and is basing his opinion on what he has read in the international corporate press and the pseudo Left pro-interventionists blogs. You need to read Max Blumenthal and Kevin Zeese’s reports about Nicaragua. This is the same old same old campaign to destabilize any and all governments elected by the people who oppose neo-liberalism. Just like in Venezuela and in Bolivia. This time the only differences is that it is a little more sophisticated in it’s methods. Even if Ortega is “ corrupt “ that is for the Nicaraguan people to take care of , NOT the U.S. and it’s minions. Ortega was elected in a democratic election. FAR more democratic than here in the u.S. and there is NO reason for him to resign. That is exactly what the u.S. and the ruling class elites in Nicaragua want. Chomsky is not God and he has been wrong before on certain issues ( even though I garee with him 98 % of the time ) and he is definitely uninformed / misinformed and hence wrong on this issue. He should know better. David J. From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2018 7:58 PM To: Brussel, Morton K Cc: Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on Nicaragua… Chomsky has been well-informed on Nicaragua for a long time. I wouldn’t disregard his views. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 4, 2018, at 4:07 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss wrote: "Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime ,” he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. Chomsky despairs , “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate situation.” Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists who did not “absolutely ” support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor looks down on Nicaragua. These charges of corruption and such are addressed by long-time solidarity activist Chuck Kaufman: + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the violence of the more militant opposition. + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by growing margins.” >From https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ —mkb _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sun Aug 5 18:30:29 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 18:30:29 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics Message-ID: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author overemphasizes the political disorientation of those promulgating/doing identity politics. How identity politics makes the Left lose its collective identity https://www.rt.com/op-ed/434924-left-policy-identity-divided/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sun Aug 5 23:49:56 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 23:49:56 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Russia Is Our Friend References: Message-ID: And what do you think of this appraisal? My apologies for sending it (if offended by the article or my flooding your email inbox). —Regards, Mort Begin forwarded message: From: David Swanson > Subject: Russia Is Our Friend Date: August 5, 2018 at 2:06:48 PM CDT To: David Swanson > Russia Is Our Friend By David Swanson http://davidswanson.org/russia-is-our-friend/ [https://i2.wp.com/davidswanson.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/putin.jpg?resize=325%2C216] Last May I was in Russia when fascists held a rally in my hometown of Charlottesville, not to be confused with their larger rally which followed in August. At the May rally, people shouted “Russia is our friend.” I was on a Russian TV show called Crosstalk the next day and discussed this. I also discussed it with other Russians, actual friends in the human sense. Some of them were completely bewildered, arguing that Russia never had slavery and couldn’t be the friend of Confederate-flag-waving people whom they saw as advocates for slavery. (Anti-Russian Ukrainians have also waved Confederate flags.) I don’t think slavery or serfdom were on the minds of the people shouting “Russia is our friend.” Rather they believed the Democratic/Liberal accusation that the Russian government had tried to help make Donald Trump President, and they approved. They may also have thought of Russia as a “white” ally in their cause of white supremacy. I think there is a case to made that, in fact, in a very different sense, “Russia is our friend.” It’s a case that could fill volumes. I don’t make this case suffering under some delusion of the perfect saintliness of the Russian government, neither now nor at any time in history. In 2015, the Russian military approached me and asked if I would publish their propaganda under my own name. I told them to go to hell publicly. I’ve had Russian media censor my criticisms of Russia and highlight my criticisms of the United States (yet allow more criticism of Russia than big U.S. media allows criticism of U.S. foreign policy). I make the following case because I think it is overwhelming yet fervently ignored. I’ll just note a few highlights. While the United States and Russia were war allies during World War I, the United States, in 1917, sent funding to one side, the anti-revolutionary side of a Russian civil war, worked to blockade the Soviet Union, and, in 1918, sent U.S. troops to Murmansk, Archangel, and Vladivostok in an attempt to overthrow the new Russian government. They abandoned the effort and withdrew in April, 1920. Most people in the United States do not know this, but many more Russians do. The threat of the communists, as an example, albeit a deeply flawed one, of taking wealth away from oligarchs was a driving force in U.S. foreign affairs from 1920 up to, all during, and long after World War II. Senator and future president Harry Truman was far from alone in wishing to help the Russians if the Germans were winning, but the Germans if the Russians were winning, so that more of both would die. Senator Robert Taft proclaimed an elite view, shared by some West Point generals, that a victory for fascism would be better than a victory for communism. Wall Street had helped to build up Nazi Germany. Without the help of IBM, General Motors, Ford, Standard Oil, and other U.S. businesses right through the war, the Nazis could not have done what they did. The U.S. government was complicit in these acts of treason, avoiding bombing U.S. factories in Germany, and even compensating U.S. businesses for damage when hit. The Russians had turned the tied against the Nazis outside Moscow and begun pushing the Germans back before the United States ever entered World War II. The Soviets implored the United States to attack Germany from the west from that moment until the summer of 1944 — that is to say, for two-and-a-half years. Wanting the Russians to do most of the killing and dying — which they did — the U.S. and Britain also did not want the Soviet Union making a new deal with or taking sole control of Germany. The allies agreed that any defeated nation would have to surrender to all of them and completely. The Russians went along with this.[https://i2.wp.com/davidswanson.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/teardrop.jpg?resize=349%2C617] Yet in Italy, Greece, France, etc., the U.S. and Britain cut Russia out almost completely, banned communists, shut out leftist resisters to the Nazis, and re-imposed rightwing governments that the Italians called “fascism without Mussolini.” The U.S. would “leave behind” spies and terrorists and saboteurs in various European countries to fend off any communist influence. Originally scheduled for the first day of Roosevelt’s and Churchill’s meeting with Stalin in Yalta, the U.S. and British bombed the city of Dresden flat, destroying its buildings and its artwork and its civilian population, apparently as a means of threatening Russia. The United States then developed and used on Japanese cities nuclear bombs, a decision driven largely by the desire to see Japan surrender to the United States alone, without the Soviet Union, and by the desire to threaten the Soviet Union. Immediately upon German surrender, Winston Churchill proposed using Nazi troops together with allied troops to attack the Soviet Union, the nation that had just done the bulk of the work of defeating the Nazis. This was not an off-the-cuff proposal. The U.S. and British had sought and achieved partial German surrenders, had kept German troops armed and ready, and had debriefed German commanders on lessons learned from their failure against the Russians. Attacking the Russians sooner rather than later was a view advocated by General George Patton, and by Hitler’s replacement Admiral Karl Donitz, not to mention Allen Dulles and the OSS. Dulles made a separate peace with Germany in Italy to cut out the Russians, and began sabotaging democracy in Europe immediately and empowering former Nazis in Germany, as well as importing them into the U.S. military to focus on war against Russia. The war launched was a cold one. The U.S. worked to make sure that West German companies would rebuild quickly but not pay war reparations owed to the Soviet Union. While the Soviets were willing to withdraw from countries like Finland, their demand for a buffer between Russia and Europe hardened as the U.S.-led Cold War grew, in particular the oxymoronic “nuclear diplomacy.” Lies about Soviet threats and missile gaps and Russian tanks in Korea and global communist conspiracies became the biggest profit makers for U.S. weapons companies, not to mention Hollywood movie studios, in history, as well as the biggest threat to peace in various corners of the globe. The United States drew Russia into a war in Afghanistan and armed its opponents. Efforts at nuclear disarmament and diplomacy, which more often than not came from the Soviet side, were routinely thwarted by Americans. When Eisenhower and Khrushchev seemed likely to talk peace, a U.S. spy plane was shot down, just after an American who’d been involved with those planes defected to Russia. When Kennedy seemed interested in peace, he was killed, purportedly by that very same American. When Germany reunited, the United States and allies lied to the Russians that NATO would not expand. Then NATO quickly began expanding eastward. Meanwhile the United States openly bragged about imposing Boris Yeltsin and corrupt crony capitalism on Russia by interfering in a Russian election in collusion with Yeltsin. NATO developed into a aggressive global war maker and expanded right up to Russia’s borders, where the United States began installing missiles. Russian requests to join NATO or Europe were dismissed out of hand. Russia was to remain a designated enemy, even without the communism, and even without constituting any threat or engaging in any hostility. When Russia gave the United States a memorial in sorrow for the victims of 9/11, the United States practically hid it, and reported on it so little that most people don’t know it exists or believe it’s a false story. When Russia has proposed to make treaties on weapons in space or cyber war or nuclear missiles, the United States has regularly rejected such moves. Russia’s advocacy for the Iran agreement meant nothing. Obama and Trump have expelled Russian diplomats. Obama helped facilitate a coup in Ukraine. Trump has begun weapons shipments to the coup government, which includes Nazis. Obama tried to facilitate an overthrow in Syria. Trump escalated the bombings, even hitting Russian troops. Trump accuses Russia — the one allied power not still occupying Germany — of dominating Germany, while trying to prevent Russia from selling its fossil fuels. Russia is accused, and found guilty prior to convincing evidence, of shooting down an airplane, of “aggressively” flying near U.S. planes on Russia’s borders, of “conquering” Crimea through a popular vote, of poisoning people in England, of torturing and murdering a man in prison, and of course of “hacking” an election — an accusation which, if evidence is ever produced for it, will amount to far less than Israel does in the United States or than the United States does in many countries. Through all of these accusations it is not uncommon for the Russians to be referred to as “the commies,” despite the demise of communism. What, you may ask, does any of this have to do with Russia being a friend? Simply this: nobody other than a friend would put up with this shit. -- David Swanson is an author, activist, journalist, and radio host. He is director of WorldBeyondWar.org and campaign coordinator for RootsAction.org. Swanson's books include War Is A Lie. He blogs at DavidSwanson.org and WarIsACrime.org. He hosts Talk Nation Radio. He is a 2015, 2016, 2017 Nobel Peace Prize Nominee. Longer bio and photos and videos here. Follow him on Twitter: @davidcnswanson and FaceBook, and sign up for: Activist alerts. Articles. David Swanson news. World Beyond War news. Charlottesville news. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WBW discussion" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wbw-discussion+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 01:25:59 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 20:25:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Chomsky_on_Nicaragua=E2=80=A6?= In-Reply-To: <004901d42cdd$5ca94a20$15fbde60$@comcast.net> References: <33057D97-2135-48F3-B105-A63CC169FC81@illinois.edu> <9793BF06-8B88-47E4-A99A-B644715E88DF@illinois.edu> <004901d42cdd$5ca94a20$15fbde60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: The fairly amazing Max Blumenthal, on the ground in Nicaragua, provides a journalistic counter to Chomsky: https://shadowproof.com/2018/08/05/max-blumenthal-nicaragua-violent-protests-interview/ On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 11:57 AM David Johnson via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > I DEFINITELY disagree with Chomsky on this issue ! > > He is not in Nicaragua and is basing his opinion on what he has read in > the international corporate press and the pseudo Left pro-interventionists > blogs. > > > > You need to read Max Blumenthal and Kevin Zeese’s reports about Nicaragua. > > > > This is the same old same old campaign to destabilize any and all > governments elected by the people who oppose neo-liberalism. Just like in > Venezuela and in Bolivia. This time the only differences is that it is a > little more sophisticated in it’s methods. > > > > Even if Ortega is “ corrupt “ that is for the Nicaraguan people to take > care of , NOT the U.S. and it’s minions. > > Ortega was elected in a democratic election. FAR more democratic than here > in the u.S. and there is NO reason for him to resign. That is exactly what > the u.S. and the ruling class elites in Nicaragua want. > > > > Chomsky is not God and he has been wrong before on certain issues ( even > though I garee with him 98 % of the time ) and he is definitely uninformed > / misinformed and hence wrong on this issue. > > He should know better. > > > > David J. > > > > > > > > *From:* Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] *On > Behalf Of *Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss > *Sent:* Saturday, August 04, 2018 7:58 PM > *To:* Brussel, Morton K > *Cc:* Peace Discuss > *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on Nicaragua… > > > > Chomsky has been well-informed on Nicaragua for a long time. I wouldn’t > disregard his views. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 4, 2018, at 4:07 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > "Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator > Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime > ,” > he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. > Chomsky despairs > , > “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate > situation.” > > Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in > Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run > for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists > > who did not “absolutely > ” > support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor > looks down on Nicaragua. > > These charges of corruption and such are addressed > by long-time solidarity > activist Chuck Kaufman: > > + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its > effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the > purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. > > + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the > Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the > violence of the more militant opposition. > > + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in > 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and > certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by > growing margins.” > > > > From > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ > > > > —mkb > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 6 01:35:51 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj at pigs.ag) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:35:51 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Identity_politics?= In-Reply-To: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually mental illnesses and psychopathologies. The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads have to go to before people get weary of them. It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have such far reaching negative consequences. Fags really do doom nations. > -------Original Message------- > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > To: Peace Discuss > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 > > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those > promulgating/doing identity politics. > > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ > > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 09:19:18 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 04:19:18 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> Message-ID: I quite agree. Adolph Reed et al. have been making this point. “The defensible heart of identity politics is its commitment to opposing forms of discrimination like racism, sexism, and homophobia. I share that commitment. But opposing discrimination today has no more to do with a left politics than do equally powerful ethical commitments against, say, violence or dishonesty. Why? Because the core of a left politics is its critique of and resistance to capitalism—its commitment to decommodifying education, health care, and housing, and creating a more economically equal society. Neither hostility to discrimination nor the accompanying enthusiasm for diversity makes the slightest contribution to accomplishing any of those goals. Just the opposite, in fact. They function instead to provide inequality with a meritocratic justification: If everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed, there’s no injustice when some people fail. “This is why Adolph Reed and I have been arguing that identity politics is not an alternative to class politics but a form of it: It’s the politics of an upper class that has no problem with seeing people being left behind as long as they haven’t been left behind because of their race or sex. That’s why elite institutions like universities make an effort to recruit black people as well as white into the ruling class. They’re seeking to legitimate the class structure, not abolish it. Of course, if we’re going to accept a ruling class, one that’s open to people other than straight white men is preferable. But shouldn’t the left be more committed to doing something for the vast majority of people of all races, genders, and sexual orientations who will never belong to that class? We’ve never thought the fact that a few white people get to become rich was a victory for poor white people, so why should substituting in a few black people change the equation? “It’s not racism that creates the difference between classes; it’s capitalism. And it’s not anti-racism that can combat the difference; it’s socialism. We’re frequently told that black poverty is worse than white poverty—more isolating, more concentrated—and maybe that’s true. But why, politically, should it matter? You don’t build the left by figuring out which victim has been most victimized; you build it by organizing all the victims. When it comes to the value of universal health care, for example, we don’t need to worry for a second about whether the black descendants of slaves are worse off than the white descendants of coal miners. The goal is not to make sure that black people are no sicker than white people; it’s to make everybody healthy. That’s why they call it universal. “You don’t build a left by arguing over who has been most victimized; you build it by organizing all the victims. “Discrimination is neoliberalism’s theory of inequality. Even poor whites have started to buy it—a large number appear to think anti-white bias is their real problem! Obviously, they’re wrong, but when, as Barbara and Karen Fields point out, the language of victimization has become so impoverished that it consists of nothing but discrimination, you go with what you’ve got. A new left politics will need to change that. Instead of a more complicated understanding of identity—of race, sex, and intersectionality (that opiate of the professional managerial class)—we need a more profound understanding of exploitation.“ —Walter Benn Michaels > On Aug 5, 2018, at 1:30 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss wrote: > > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author overemphasizes the political disorientation of those promulgating/doing identity politics. > How identity politics makes the Left lose its collective identity > > https://www.rt.com/op-ed/434924-left-policy-identity-divided/ > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Mon Aug 6 10:59:12 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 05:59:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> Message-ID: Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings? If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands. There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. Rabbi Hillel said: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?" On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the > wilderness. > > It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually > mental illnesses and psychopathologies. > The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF > is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads > have to go to before people get weary of them. > > It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have > such > far reaching negative consequences. > > Fags really do doom nations. > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> > > To: Peace Discuss > > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics > > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 > > > > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author > > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those > > promulgating/doing identity politics. > > > > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ > > > > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 14:29:33 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:29:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> Message-ID: <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. To paraphrase - “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” —CGE > On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings? > > If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. > > If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. > > If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." > > I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands. > > There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. > > Rabbi Hillel said: > > "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > > If I am only for myself, what am I? > > If not now, when?" > > On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss > wrote: > It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. > > It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually > mental illnesses and psychopathologies. > The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF > is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads > have to go to before people get weary of them. > > It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have such > far reaching negative consequences. > > Fags really do doom nations. > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > > > To: Peace Discuss > > > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics > > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 > > > > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author > > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those > > promulgating/doing identity politics. > > > > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ > > > > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Mon Aug 6 14:41:03 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 09:41:03 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> Message-ID: I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception. Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk? Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote? On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, > it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line > recalls other recent discussions on this list. > > To paraphrase - “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does > anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” > > —CGE > > > On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that > gay people are human beings? > > If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay > people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. > > If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal > justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United > States Supreme Court > - then if > "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive > legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. > > If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have > equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates > that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is > only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which > claims to practice "equal justice under law." > > I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems > to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the > equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from > rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other > is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting > identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of > highlighting economic justice demands. > > There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has > to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, > it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been > to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice > framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not > contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay > people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to > organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see > the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their > rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. > > Rabbi Hillel said: > > "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > > If I am only for myself, what am I? > > If not now, when?" > > On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the >> wilderness. >> >> It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually >> mental illnesses and psychopathologies. >> The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF >> is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads >> have to go to before people get weary of them. >> >> It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have >> such >> far reaching negative consequences. >> >> Fags really do doom nations. >> >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> >> > To: Peace Discuss >> > Cc: Brussel, Morton K >> > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >> > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >> > >> > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >> > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >> > promulgating/doing identity politics. >> > >> > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >> > >> > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >> >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Peace-discuss mailing list >> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 15:00:32 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:00:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> Message-ID: <235C7463-B790-457A-8E8E-8176EBC6C732@gmail.com> In the wake of the Vietnam war, neoliberalism - turbo-charged capitalism - was a conscious, calculated construction by the US business (see the Powell memo) to counter the “crisis of democracy” - the crisis being that there was too much democracy in the US of the 1970s: it was beginning to cut into the rights of capital to exploit >. Under the pressure of neoliberalism, pusillanimous American liberals gave up the attempt - that went back to the New Deal - to ameliorate the exploration. But they had a bad conscience about it and looked around for other groups to champion, besides the working class. Thus was born identity politics: liberals championed those discriminated against, rather than the exploited. Neoliberals cheered, because (as WB Michaels puts it), "opposing discrimination today has no more to do with a left politics than do equally powerful ethical commitments against, say, violence or dishonesty. Why? Because the core of a left politics is its critique of and resistance to capitalism—its commitment to decommodifying education, health care, and housing, and creating a more economically equal society. Neither hostility to discrimination nor the accompanying enthusiasm for diversity makes the slightest contribution to accomplishing any of those goals. Just the opposite, in fact. They function instead to provide inequality with a meritocratic justification: If everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed, there’s no injustice when some people fail.” Identity politics became a cover for neoliberalism administrations to dispense with the New Deal’s social democracy (until the Sanders campaign revived it). The result was growing and accelerating inequality and the immiseration. of the majority of Americans. Donald Trump became president partly because he was the first major party presidential candidate in 40 years to criticize the policies of neoliberalism - however erratically - white Clinton’s campaign was built around neoliberalism and identity politics (cf. “deplorables”). —CGE > On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings? > > If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. > > If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. > > If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." > > I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands. > > There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. > > Rabbi Hillel said: > > "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > > If I am only for myself, what am I? > > If not now, when?" > > On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss > wrote: > It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. > > It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually > mental illnesses and psychopathologies. > The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF > is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads > have to go to before people get weary of them. > > It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have such > far reaching negative consequences. > > Fags really do doom nations. > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > > > To: Peace Discuss > > > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics > > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 > > > > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author > > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those > > promulgating/doing identity politics. > > > > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ > > > > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ > > > > ------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 15:09:10 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:09:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a month (or two, or three…) before she was born. So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and it’s not magical but quite natural: conception. > On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception. > > Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk? > > Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote? > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. > > To paraphrase - “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” > > —CGE > > >> On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> >> Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings? >> >> If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. >> >> If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. >> >> If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." >> >> I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands. >> >> There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. >> >> Rabbi Hillel said: >> >> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? >> >> If I am only for myself, what am I? >> >> If not now, when?" >> >> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. >> >> It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually >> mental illnesses and psychopathologies. >> The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF >> is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads >> have to go to before people get weary of them. >> >> It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have such >> far reaching negative consequences. >> >> Fags really do doom nations. >> >> >> > -------Original Message------- >> > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > >> > To: Peace Discuss > >> > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > >> > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >> > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >> > >> > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >> > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >> > promulgating/doing identity politics. >> > >> > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >> > >> > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >> > >> > ------------------------- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Peace-discuss mailing list >> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Mon Aug 6 15:33:05 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:33:05 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: If a zygote were a human, it would follow that aborting a zygote equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life. Is that your position? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:09 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a > month (or two, or three…) before she was born. > > So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs > (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? > > But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and it’s > not magical but quite natural: conception. > > > > On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the > moment of conception. > > Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk? > > Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a > zygote? > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, >> it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line >> recalls other recent discussions on this list. >> >> To paraphrase - “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does >> anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” >> >> —CGE >> >> >> On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that >> gay people are human beings? >> >> If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay >> people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. >> >> If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal >> justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United >> States Supreme Court >> - then if >> "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive >> legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. >> >> If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people >> have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, >> advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that >> person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a >> society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." >> >> I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems >> to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the >> equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from >> rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other >> is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting >> identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of >> highlighting economic justice demands. >> >> There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has >> to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, >> it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been >> to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice >> framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not >> contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay >> people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to >> organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see >> the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their >> rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. >> >> Rabbi Hillel said: >> >> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? >> >> If I am only for myself, what am I? >> >> If not now, when?" >> >> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss < >> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the >>> wilderness. >>> >>> It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually >>> mental illnesses and psychopathologies. >>> The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF >>> is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads >>> have to go to before people get weary of them. >>> >>> It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can >>> have such >>> far reaching negative consequences. >>> >>> Fags really do doom nations. >>> >>> >>> > -------Original Message------- >>> > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss < >>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> >>> > To: Peace Discuss >>> > Cc: Brussel, Morton K >>> > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >>> > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >>> > >>> > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >>> > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >>> > promulgating/doing identity politics. >>> > >>> > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >>> > >>> > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >>> >>> > >>> > ------------------------- >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Peace-discuss mailing list >>> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> > >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 6 15:47:07 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 23:47:07 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1533570426290.qhhvcvzos1fzrlke2y01t5fo@android.mail.163.com> Ah do.indeed most vehemently dispute the claim that a Paramecium is two Paramecia after fission. That would not be cell division, it would be cell multiplication and defiant of arithmetic and common sense. one might as well say you can add by subtracting. qed. On 2018-08-06 22:41 , Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss Wrote: I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception.  Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk?  Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote?  On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. To paraphrase -  “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” —CGE On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings?  If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings.  If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law."  I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands.   There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay.  Rabbi Hillel said: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?" On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss wrote: It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually mental illnesses and psychopathologies. The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads have to go to before people get weary of them. It is also interesting that what  can be dismissed as simple fad can have such far  reaching  negative consequences. Fags really do doom nations.  >  -------Original Message------- >  From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss >  To: Peace Discuss >  Cc: Brussel, Morton K >  Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >  Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >  >  I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >  overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >  promulgating/doing identity politics. >  >  _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >  >  HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >  >  ------------------------- >  _______________________________________________ >  Peace-discuss mailing list >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >  https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >   _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 6 20:42:58 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2018 04:42:58 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59aaa993-8324-2549-0f47-b1b81643b181@pigs.ag> Quickening is a "old wives tale" notion that the baby comes to life when the first kick is felt. Quicken is an old English word that means to give life. The quick and the dead.   Ecce homo.  He was cut to the quick. The zygote may be sessile but is certainly quick in the sense that there is life in it. Even bacteria have only once cell but they respond to stimuli and have genes that can be turned on and off and display a sort of intelligence and irritability.  They are quick.  Fast, too. It is impossible to make a coherent biological argument in favour of killing the human life form that results from conception. A reasonable society constructs a system for directing and supporting conception and its results. There is indeed something holy about it.  The sanctity of life. The matter of the sanctity of life transcends the right of a woman over her body. There is no such thing as the right of a woman to kill her child before or after birth because she would violate the unalienable rights of another human (be-ing). Punishment? Mercy and understanding and healing rejoice against judgment. There is a difference between accidentally backing over the neighbor's dog and corralling all the strays in the neighborhood and dispatching them on the pavement with a steamroller, George Tiller-style. Still it's no reason to set up a the moral equivalent of a sausage grinder at the edge of town for the disposal of society's non-eugenic culls. How mulch do you care? What does pain have to do with it at all? Dred Scott vs Sanford.  There's established case law for ya. Dehumanization of the victim. Job (Jobab) lamented cynically that he would have been better off if his mama had kept her knees closer together for his contraception. It turned out that he was not right about that after all. C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a > month (or two, or three…) before she was born. > > So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs > (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? > > But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and > it’s not magical but quite natural: conception. > > > >> On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman >> > >> wrote: >> >> I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at >> the moment of conception. >> Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk? >> >> Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow >> or a zygote? >> >> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> > > wrote: >> >> There is more to be said about identity politics - among other >> things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your >> incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on >> this list. >> >> To paraphrase -  “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? >> Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” >> >> —CGE >> >> >>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here >>> dispute that gay people are human beings? >>> >>> If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, >>> then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are >>> human beings. >>> >>> If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on >>> "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front >>> of the United States Supreme Court >>>  - then >>> if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other >>> and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that >>> right. >>> >>> If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay >>> people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are >>> human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of >>> gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would >>> normally expect people to do in a society which claims to >>> practice "equal justice under law." >>> >>> I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." >>> It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: >>> advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of >>> people who have been excluded from rights and participation >>> based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that >>> at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting >>> identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of >>> highlighting economic justice demands. >>> >>> There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first >>> sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for >>> economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the >>> historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the >>> defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, >>> so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not >>> contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which >>> gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the >>> right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right >>> and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an >>> important way that gay people defend their rights, because >>> unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. >>> >>> Rabbi Hillel said: >>> >>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? >>> >>> If I am only for myself, what am I? >>> >>> If not now, when?" >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via >>> Peace-discuss >> > wrote: >>> >>> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth >>> crying in the wilderness. >>> >>> It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are >>> actually >>> mental illnesses and psychopathologies. >>> The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF >>> is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads >>> have to go to before people get weary of them. >>> >>> It is also interesting that what  can be dismissed as simple >>> fad can have such >>> far  reaching  negative consequences. >>> >>> Fags really do doom nations. >>> >>> >>> >  -------Original Message------- >>> >  From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss >>> >> > >>> >  To: Peace Discuss >> > >>> >  Cc: Brussel, Morton K >> > >>> >  Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >>> >  Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >>> > >>> >  I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >>> >  overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >>> >  promulgating/doing identity politics. >>> > >>> >  _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE >>> IDENTITY_ >>> > >>> > >>> HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >>> >>> > >>> > ------------------------- >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >  Peace-discuss mailing list >>> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> >>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> > >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 19:38:24 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:38:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: To paraphrase, “ending a human life equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life.” I assume that’s your position. A human zygote is a cell formed by a fertilization event between two human gametes (from Greek γαμετή gamete from gamein "to marry”). The zygote's genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual. Assuming one must err on the side of caution where human life is concerned, it seems hard to deny that a human zygote is a human life. QED. > On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > If a zygote were a human, it would follow that aborting a zygote equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life. Is that your position? > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:09 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a month (or two, or three…) before she was born. > > So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? > > But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and it’s not magical but quite natural: conception. > > > >> On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception. >> >> Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk? >> >> Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote? >> >> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. >> >> To paraphrase - “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” >> >> —CGE >> >> >>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>> >>> Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings? >>> >>> If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings. >>> >>> If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. >>> >>> If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law." >>> >>> I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands. >>> >>> There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay. >>> >>> Rabbi Hillel said: >>> >>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? >>> >>> If I am only for myself, what am I? >>> >>> If not now, when?" >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>> It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. >>> >>> It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually >>> mental illnesses and psychopathologies. >>> The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF >>> is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads >>> have to go to before people get weary of them. >>> >>> It is also interesting that what can be dismissed as simple fad can have such >>> far reaching negative consequences. >>> >>> Fags really do doom nations. >>> >>> >>> > -------Original Message------- >>> > From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > >>> > To: Peace Discuss > >>> > Cc: Brussel, Morton K > >>> > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >>> > Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >>> > >>> > I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >>> > overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >>> > promulgating/doing identity politics. >>> > >>> > _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >>> > >>> > HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >>> > >>> > ------------------------- >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Peace-discuss mailing list >>> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 6 23:56:54 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 07:56:54 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1533599814005.hkxqytfa5hcohmxxbftszt5q@android.mail.163.com> no one can deny that the zygote biologically alive. that it.cannot live outside.the womb real or mechanical cuts no ice. a tomato plant also cannot live out of the soil matrix. cant say it.is not.alive. if the subhumanized fodder of war aint alive there is no reason.to.kill. them. likewise the only reason to terminate the child is that its life now subhumanized is a threat. On 2018-08-07 03:38 , C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Wrote: To paraphrase, “ending a human life equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life.” I assume that’s your position. A human zygote is a cell formed by a fertilization event between two human gametes (from Greek γαμετή gamete from gamein "to marry”). The zygote's genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual.  Assuming one must err on the side of caution where human life is concerned, it seems hard to deny that a human zygote is a human life. QED. On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: If a zygote were a human, it would follow that aborting a zygote equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life. Is that your position?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:09 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a month (or two, or three…) before she was born. So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and it’s not magical but quite natural: conception. On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception.  Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk?  Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote?  On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. To paraphrase -  “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” —CGE On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings?  If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings.  If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law."  I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands.   There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay.  Rabbi Hillel said: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?" On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss wrote: It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually mental illnesses and psychopathologies. The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads have to go to before people get weary of them. It is also interesting that what  can be dismissed as simple fad can have such far  reaching  negative consequences. Fags really do doom nations.  >  -------Original Message------- >  From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss >  To: Peace Discuss >  Cc: Brussel, Morton K >  Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >  Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >  >  I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >  overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >  promulgating/doing identity politics. >  >  _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >  >  HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >  >  ------------------------- >  _______________________________________________ >  Peace-discuss mailing list >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >  https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >   _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 6 23:56:54 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2018 07:56:54 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics In-Reply-To: References: <118C4828-F559-4587-9C22-6F863BBADBFC@illinois.edu> <20180806013551.9446.qmail@station188.com> <116C1804-1D03-4DB5-887B-E82364DC7CBE@gmail.com> <8E88D985-85A6-4772-904A-072F502C55AF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1533599814005.hkxqytfa5hcohmxxbftszt5q@android.mail.163.com> no one can deny that the zygote biologically alive. that it.cannot live outside.the womb real or mechanical cuts no ice. a tomato plant also cannot live out of the soil matrix. cant say it.is not.alive. if the subhumanized fodder of war aint alive there is no reason.to.kill. them. likewise the only reason to terminate the child is that its life now subhumanized is a threat. On 2018-08-07 03:38 , C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Wrote: To paraphrase, “ending a human life equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life.” I assume that’s your position. A human zygote is a cell formed by a fertilization event between two human gametes (from Greek γαμετή gamete from gamein "to marry”). The zygote's genome is a combination of the DNA in each gamete, and contains all of the genetic information necessary to form a new individual.  Assuming one must err on the side of caution where human life is concerned, it seems hard to deny that a human zygote is a human life. QED. On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:33 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: If a zygote were a human, it would follow that aborting a zygote equals murder and therefore must be absolutely prohibited in all cases, including rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life. Is that your position?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:09 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: And I dispute the claim that my granddaughter was not a human being a month (or two, or three…) before she was born. So we’re debating when this magical transition to humanness occurs (‘quickening," e.g.)? The ability to feel pain? But there is one point when the transition to humanness occurs, and it’s not magical but quite natural: conception. On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: I dispute the claim that a fertilized human egg is a human being at the moment of conception.  Do you eat meat and cheese? Do you drink milk?  Which do you think has a greater capacity to experience pain: a cow or a zygote?  On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:29 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: There is more to be said about identity politics - among other things, it’s a cover for neoliberalism - but your incontrovertible first line recalls other recent discussions on this list. To paraphrase -  “Unborn children are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that unborn children are human beings?” —CGE On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss wrote: Gay people are human beings, aren't they? Does anyone here dispute that gay people are human beings?  If gay people are human beings, and if human beings have rights, then gay people have rights, by virtue of the fact that they are human beings.  If we claim that our society is based, among other things, on "Equal justice under law" - this phrase is engraved on the front of the United States Supreme Court - then if "straight" people have the right to get married to each other and derive legal benefits from that, gay people also have that right. If a gay person, or if a straight person who believes that gay people have equal rights by virtue of the fact that they are human beings, advocates that a politician defend the rights of gay people to marry, that person is only doing what we would normally expect people to do in a society which claims to practice "equal justice under law."  I have come to strongly dislike the phrase "identity politics." It seems to me to conflate two very different things. One is: advocating for the equal rights and equal participation of people who have been excluded from rights and participation based on identity characteristics. And the other is: doing that at the expense of advocating for economic justice; putting identity politics at the top of the marquee, to the exclusion of highlighting economic justice demands.   There's no intrinsic reason why identity politics in the first sense has to be in existential conflict with advocacy for economic justice. Indeed, it seems to me that one of the historic tasks of the Left has always been to integrate the defense of identity rights into an economic justice framework, so that these things will be perceived to be complementary, not contradictory. The world in which I want to live is one in which gay people, even gay people who are not workers, defend the right of workers to organize, both because it is ethically right and because they correctly see the organization of unions as an important way that gay people defend their rights, because unions are defending the right of gay workers to be gay.  Rabbi Hillel said: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?" On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:35 PM, e. wayne johnson via Peace-discuss wrote: It is interesting how RT is so often the voice of truth crying in the wilderness. It is also interesting that some of the "identities" are actually mental illnesses and psychopathologies. The Canadian Alphabet soup LGBTQRTS123ZOMFGWTF is the ridiculous extreme that some of these cultural fads have to go to before people get weary of them. It is also interesting that what  can be dismissed as simple fad can have such far  reaching  negative consequences. Fags really do doom nations.  >  -------Original Message------- >  From: Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss >  To: Peace Discuss >  Cc: Brussel, Morton K >  Subject: [Peace-discuss] Identity politics >  Sent: Aug 06 '18 02:31 >  >  I fond this a stong analysis, although perhaps the author >  overemphasizes the political disorientation of those >  promulgating/doing identity politics. >  >  _HOW IDENTITY POLITICS MAKES THE LEFT LOSE ITS COLLECTIVE IDENTITY_ >  >  HTTPS://WWW.RT.COM/OP-ED/434924-LEFT-POLICY-IDENTITY-DIVIDED/ >  >  ------------------------- >  _______________________________________________ >  Peace-discuss mailing list >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >  https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >   _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 13:02:49 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 08:02:49 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Populism in Germany Message-ID: More indication that the left-right classification of political parties doesn’t work very well any more. The major political division is now populism vs. corporate globalism. In "Twenty-First Century Populism: The Spectre of Western European Democracy" (2008), Albertazzi & McDonnell describe populism as an ideology that "pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice.” The Republican and Democrat parties (and their equivalents elsewhere) have been neoliberal ( = corporate globalist) since the Carter administration. Cf. Italy, where a populist government (a 'left-right coalition’) has ousted the two corporate globalist parties ( = Republicans and Democrats). The same could happen in Germany (and elsewhere). The Sanders campaign, the Trump campaign, Brexit, Le Pen and Melenchon et al. are populist manifestations. =================== From Handelsblatt 8/8/18: * * * Many foreign observers of Germany know that a populist party, called the Alternative for Germany (AfD), which was founded in 2013 and entered parliament in 2017, has been growing on the far right. It is at 15 percent in the most recent survey by Emnid, one of Germany’s big polling outfits. That fits neatly into a bigger narrative of rising populism in the Western world. Less noticed, but at least as interesting, is a concomitant rise on the left of the Green Party. They got just short of 9 percent in last September’s general election. But in the same Emnid poll, they are now also at 15 percent, exactly equal with the AfD and only a hair behind the Social Democrats (SPD) at 18 percent. Manfred Güllner of Forsa, another leading German pollster, thinks that the Greens will eventually pass the SPD to become Germany’s leading center-left party. That has Berlin’s wonks talking. The SPD appears to be in long-term decline, like its social-democratic sister parties elsewhere in Europe: stuck in industrial-era mentalities, with no ideas for the post-industrial information age, and with its traditional blue-collar workers defecting to the AfD. By contrast, the Greens have always appealed more to the well-heeled and well-educated middle classes and even elites. They never did well when they pretended to be radical lefties marching under the banner of soak-the-rich redistribution. But now they’re rallying behind moderate, sensible and responsible party leaders like Robert Habeck (pictured), with a message that climate change is the greatest threat to humanity. What does the rise of the Greens mean? Above all, that the narrative of a general right-ward or even populist shift was too simple. The Greens also stand for the “welcome culture” toward refugees and immigrants that has allegedly gone out of fashion. They may become a force to be reckoned with, not only counterbalancing the AfD but also forming future coalition governments and setting actual policy. ===================== —CGE From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 13:09:38 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 08:09:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Democrats Message-ID: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/08/ten-things-that-are-more-selfish-stupid-and-privileged-than-voting-green-party/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Wed Aug 8 14:15:54 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 09:15:54 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Democrats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's a thing that's frustrating to me about this. That's a district that Trump carried by a big margin. So, a Democrat that has a chance of winning there is not going to be that "progressive" on many issues. But there's a whole bunch of Empire issues that a broad group of both Republican and Democratic voters either oppose the Empire on or don't care about. Yemen is a perfect example. Who wants to help Saudi Arabia fight a famine-causing war in Yemen - a war in which the U.S. is allied with Al Qaeda? How many actual voters would either want that, or would be bothered by somebody opposing it? Virtually none. Most Americans hate Saudi Arabia or don't care. For a Democratic politician or a Republican politician it should be a freebie, at least in terms of voters. Syria 2013 was another example. Overwhelmingly Republican and Democratic voters thought we should stay the hell out, which was a key reason that Obama had to go to Congress and then couldn't get an AUMF. On Afghanistan, the Washington Post says the Taliban demand that all foreign troops leave Afghanistan is a dealbreaker for the U.S. Why should that be so? How many Americans want to fight a war in Afghanistan, just so U.S. troops can stay in Afghanistan? Show me all the Democratic and Republican voters who would raise their hands for that. Bill Clinton once said something to the effect of: if the American people had a vote, they would never let us send the troops anywhere. We should be amplifying and giving effect to that bipartisan sentiment more than we are. On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:09 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/08/ten-things-that- > are-more-selfish-stupid-and-privileged-than-voting-green-party/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From divisek at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 16:34:34 2018 From: divisek at yahoo.com (Dianna Visek) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 16:34:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Populism in Germany In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1769485892.4549323.1533746074837@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Carl, I think this is an excellent overview of the situation.  The German quote says,  "The SPD appears to be in long-term decline, like its social-democratic sister parties elsewhere in Europe: stuck in industrial-era mentalities, with no ideas for the post-industrial information age . . ." This is the crux of the matter.  Climate change isn't enough of a platform.  And neither is income redistribution.  There needs to be a bigger, better fix. Dianna On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 8:03:21 AM CDT, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: More indication that the left-right classification of political parties doesn’t work very well any more. The major political division is now populism vs. corporate globalism. In "Twenty-First Century Populism: The Spectre of Western European Democracy" (2008), Albertazzi & McDonnell describe populism as an ideology that "pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice.” The Republican and Democrat parties (and their equivalents elsewhere) have been neoliberal ( = corporate globalist) since the Carter administration. Cf. Italy, where a populist government (a 'left-right coalition’) has ousted the two corporate globalist parties ( = Republicans and Democrats). The same could happen in Germany (and elsewhere). The Sanders campaign, the Trump campaign, Brexit, Le Pen and Melenchon et al. are populist manifestations.  =================== >From Handelsblatt 8/8/18: * * * Many foreign observers of Germany know that a populist party, called the Alternative for Germany (AfD), which was founded in 2013 and entered parliament in 2017, has been growing on the far right. It is at 15 percent in the most recent survey by Emnid, one of Germany’s big polling outfits. That fits neatly into a bigger narrative of rising populism in the Western world. Less noticed, but at least as interesting, is a concomitant rise on the left of the Green Party. They got just short of 9 percent in last September’s general election. But in the same Emnid poll, they are now also at 15 percent, exactly equal with the AfD and only a hair behind the Social Democrats (SPD) at 18 percent. Manfred Güllner of Forsa, another leading German pollster, thinks that the Greens will eventually pass the SPD to become Germany’s leading center-left party. That has Berlin’s wonks talking. The SPD appears to be in long-term decline, like its social-democratic sister parties elsewhere in Europe: stuck in industrial-era mentalities, with no ideas for the post-industrial information age, and with its traditional blue-collar workers defecting to the AfD. By contrast, the Greens have always appealed more to the well-heeled and well-educated middle classes and even elites. They never did well when they pretended to be radical lefties marching under the banner of soak-the-rich redistribution. But now they’re rallying behind moderate, sensible and responsible party leaders like Robert Habeck (pictured), with a message that climate change is the greatest threat to humanity. What does the rise of the Greens mean? Above all, that the narrative of a general right-ward or even populist shift was too simple. The Greens also stand for the “welcome culture” toward refugees and immigrants that has allegedly gone out of fashion. They may become a force to be reckoned with, not only counterbalancing the AfD but also forming future coalition governments and setting actual policy. ===================== —CGE     _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Wed Aug 8 19:24:29 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:24:29 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: NYTimes.com: War Without End References: <7C57A22D-6E26-4030-9E46-9BBE16E2B50F@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <42573BA9-E8A3-453D-9DD9-66DA033F3E4E@illinois.edu> From: "Szoke, Ron" > Subject: NYTimes.com: War Without End Date: August 8, 2018 From The New York Times: War Without End The Pentagon’s failed campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan left a generation of soldiers with little to fight for but one another. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/magazine/war-afghanistan-iraq-soldiers.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 22:12:24 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 17:12:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Populism in Germany In-Reply-To: <1769485892.4549323.1533746074837@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1769485892.4549323.1533746074837@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4139870B-7E5B-426C-BD72-91D9B8E28E3E@gmail.com> Thanks, Dianna. I’d say the bigger, better fix would be socialism; an immediate universal basic income would be a stopgap in a situation of runaway inequality and majority immiseration. Pending an economy run for people rather than profit, we could begin by bringing all troops (and weapons) home and establishing social supports - free healthcare, education, child supports, etc. It’s hard to see how the very real dangers of climate change can be dealt with by capitalism - there’s no money is saving the planet, only despoiling it. I think the populist transformation of left-right politics may offer some hope. Regards, Carl > On Aug 8, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Dianna Visek wrote: > > Hi Carl, > > I think this is an excellent overview of the situation. > > The German quote says, "The SPD appears to be in long-term decline, like its social-democratic sister parties elsewhere in Europe: stuck in industrial-era mentalities, with no ideas for the post-industrial information age . . ." > > This is the crux of the matter. Climate change isn't enough of a platform. And neither is income redistribution. There needs to be a bigger, better fix. > > Dianna > > On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 8:03:21 AM CDT, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > > > More indication that the left-right classification of political parties doesn’t work very well any more. > > The major political division is now populism vs. corporate globalism. In "Twenty-First Century Populism: The Spectre of Western European Democracy" (2008), Albertazzi & McDonnell describe populism as an ideology that "pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice.” > > The Republican and Democrat parties (and their equivalents elsewhere) have been neoliberal ( = corporate globalist) since the Carter administration. > > Cf. Italy, where a populist government (a 'left-right coalition’) has ousted the two corporate globalist parties ( = Republicans and Democrats). The same could happen in Germany (and elsewhere). > > The Sanders campaign, the Trump campaign, Brexit, Le Pen and Melenchon et al. are populist manifestations. > > =================== > From Handelsblatt 8/8/18: > > * * * Many foreign observers of Germany know that a populist party, called the Alternative for Germany (AfD), which was founded in 2013 and entered parliament in 2017, has been growing on the far right. It is at 15 percent in the most recent survey by Emnid, one of Germany’s big polling outfits. That fits neatly into a bigger narrative of rising populism in the Western world. > > Less noticed, but at least as interesting, is a concomitant rise on the left of the Green Party. They got just short of 9 percent in last September’s general election. But in the same Emnid poll, they are now also at 15 percent, exactly equal with the AfD and only a hair behind the Social Democrats (SPD) at 18 percent. Manfred Güllner of Forsa, another leading German pollster, thinks that the Greens will eventually pass the SPD to become Germany’s leading center-left party. > > That has Berlin’s wonks talking. The SPD appears to be in long-term decline, like its social-democratic sister parties elsewhere in Europe: stuck in industrial-era mentalities, with no ideas for the post-industrial information age, and with its traditional blue-collar workers defecting to the AfD. > > By contrast, the Greens have always appealed more to the well-heeled and well-educated middle classes and even elites. They never did well when they pretended to be radical lefties marching under the banner of soak-the-rich redistribution. But now they’re rallying behind moderate, sensible and responsible party leaders like Robert Habeck (pictured), with a message that climate change is the greatest threat to humanity. > > What does the rise of the Greens mean? Above all, that the narrative of a general right-ward or even populist shift was too simple. The Greens also stand for the “welcome culture” toward refugees and immigrants that has allegedly gone out of fashion. They may become a force to be reckoned with, not only counterbalancing the AfD but also forming future coalition governments and setting actual policy. > ===================== > > —CGE > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 15:31:31 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:31:31 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, Tuesday 7 August Message-ID: <40D899CE-B292-4EA4-852D-65C146433AAC@gmail.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nItqTrgKN48 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Thu Aug 9 19:43:28 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 19:43:28 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_NicaNotes=3A_Nicaragua_=E2=80=93?= =?utf-8?q?_Rebutting_Chomsky?= References: <80de4d4f-300d-4b28-b91b-2b365a278f06@salsalabs.org> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: From: Alliance for Global Justice > Subject: NicaNotes: Nicaragua – Rebutting Chomsky Date: August 9, 2018 at 12:33:44 PM CDT To: "M. K. Brussel" > Reply-To: Afgj at Afgj.org [https://default.salsalabs.org/aaf5aefe-1113-44db-abc4-ffbfb3066a00/a920506f-5dd8-4478-be0c-035b88c4a267.png] August 8, 2018 [https://default.salsalabs.org/aaf5aefe-1113-44db-abc4-ffbfb3066a00/8a3c35af-f71a-4ff9-bc1e-77617b77d395.jpg] Published by the Nicaragua Network, a project of Alliance for Global Justice! NicaNotes is a blog for Nicaragua activists and those interested in Nicaragua, published by the Nicaragua Network, a project of the Alliance for Global Justice. It provides news and analysis from the context of Nicaragua Network’s long history of struggle in solidarity with the Sandinista Revolution. Chomsky on Regime Change in Nicaragua by ROGER HARRIS Reprinted from CounterPunch https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/03/chomsky-on-regime-change-in-nicaragua/ [https://default.salsalabs.org/aaf5aefe-1113-44db-abc4-ffbfb3066a00/14e42e3d-e7f1-4a4f-ae09-037b8b3e5eb8.jpg] Photo by hobvias sudoneighm | CC BY 2.0 With patented angst, Noam Chomsky opined on President Daniel Ortega’s Nicaragua to an agreeing Amy Goodman: “But there’s been a lot of corruption, a lot of repression. It’s autocratic, undoubtedly.” Earlier in their DemocracyNow! interview, the main talking points were established via a video clip of a dissident former official from Ortega’s Sandinista Party: Ortega’s “entire government has been, in essence, neoliberal. Then it becomes authoritarian, repressive.” Left out of this view is why the US has targeted Nicaragua for regime change. One would think that a neoliberal regime, especially if it were authoritarian and repressive, would be just the ticket to curry favor with Washington. In Chomsky’s own words, Nicaragua poses a threat of a good example to the US empire Since Ortega’s return election victory in 2006, Nicaragua had achieved the following, according to NSCAG, despite being the second poorest country in the hemisphere: + Second highest economic growth rates and most stable economy in Central America. + Only country in the region producing 90% of the food it consumes. + Poverty and extreme poverty halved; country with the greatest reduction of extreme poverty. + Reaching the UN Millennium Development Goal of cutting malnutrition by half. + Free basic healthcare and education. + Illiteracy virtually eliminated, down from 36% in 2006. + Average economic growth of 5.2% for the past 5 years (IMF and the World Bank). + Safest country in Central America (UN Development Program) with one of the lowest crime rates in Latin America. + Highest level of gender equality in the Americas (World Economic Forum Global Gender Gap Report 2017). + Did not contribute to the migrant exodus to the US, unlike neighboring Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala. + Unlike its neighbors, kept out the drug cartels and pioneered community policing. Nicaragua targeted by the US for regime change Before April 18, Nicaragua was among the most peaceful and stable countries in the region. The otherwise inexplicable violence that has suddenly engulfed Nicaragua should be understood in the context of it being targeted by the US for regime change. Nicaragua has provoked the ire of the US for the good things its done, not the bad. Besides being a “threat” of a good example, Nicaragua is in the anti-imperialist ALBA alliance with Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, and others. The attack on Nicaragua is part of a larger strategy by the US to tear apart regional alliances of resistance to the Empire, though that is not the whole story. Nicaragua regularly votes against the US in international forums such as challenging retrograde US policies on climate change. An inter-ocean canal through Nicaragua is being considered, which would contend with the Panama Canal. Russia and China invest in Nicaragua, competing with US capital. The NICA Act, passed by the US House of Representatives and now before the Senate, would initiate economic warfare designed to attack living conditions in Nicaragua through economic sanctions, as well as intensify US intelligence intervention. The ultimate purpose is to depose the democratically-elected Ortega government. Meanwhile, USAID announced an additional $1.5 million “to support freedom and democracy in Nicaragua” through non-governmental organizations (NGOs) to overthrow the democratically elected government and “make this truly a hemisphere of freedom.” That is, freedom for the US empire. Holding Nicaragua to a higher standard than our own government Although Chomsky echoes the talking points of the USAID administrator Mark Green about “Ortega’s brutal regime,” he can’t quite bring himself to accept responsibility for regime change. Chomsky despairs, “it’s hard to see a simple way out at this point. It’s a very unfortunate situation.” Chomsky is concerned about corruption, repression, and autocracy in Nicaragua, urging the democratically elected president to step down and run for re-election. Need it be mentioned that Chomsky chastised leftists who did not “absolutely” support Hillary Clinton? It is from this moral ground that the professor looks down on Nicaragua. These charges of corruption and such are addressedby long-time solidarity activist Chuck Kaufman: + The World Bank, IMF, and EU countries have certified Nicaragua for its effective use of international loans and grants; funds were spent for the purposes they were given, not siphoned off into corruption. + Kaufman asks, “why a police force that in 39 years had not repressed the Nicaraguan people would suddenly go berserk,” while videos clearly show the violence of the more militant opposition. + Ortega won in 2006 with a 38% plurality, in 2011 with 63%, and 72.5% in 2016. The Organization of American States officially accompanied and certified the vote. Kaufman notes, “Dictators don’t win fair elections by growing margins.” Alternatives to Ortega would be worse Those who call for Ortega’s removal need to accept responsibility for what comes after. Here the lesson of Libya is instructive, where the replacement of, in Chomsky’s words, the “brutal tyrant” and “cruel dictator” Qaddafi has resulted in a far worsesituation for the Libyan people. Any replacement of Ortega would be more, not less, neoliberal, oppressive, and authoritarian. When the Nicaraguan people, held hostage to the US-backed Contra war, first voted Ortega out of office in 1990, the incoming US-backed Violeta Chamorro government brought neoliberal structural adjustment and a moribund economy. The dissident Sandinistas who splintered off from the official party after the party’s election defeat and formed the MRS (Sandinista Renovation Movement) are not a progressive alternative. They are now comfortably ensconced in US-fundedNGOs, regularly making junkets to Washington to pay homage to the likes of Representative Iliana Ros-Lehtinenand Senator Marco Rubio to lobby in favor of the NICA Act. Nor do they represent a popular force, garnering less than 2% in national elections. When the MRS left the Sandinista party, they took with them almost all those who were better educated, came from more privileged backgrounds, and who spoke English. These formerly left dissidents, now turned to the rightin their hatred of Ortega, have many ties with North American activists, which explains some of the confusion today over Nicaragua. The world, not just Ortega, has changed since the 1980s when the Soviet Union and its allies served as a counter-vailing force to US bullying. What was possible then is not the same in today’s more constrained international arena. Class war turned upside down Kevin Zeeseof Popular Resistance aptly characterized the offensive against the democratically elected government of Nicaragua as “a class war turned upside down.” Nicaragua was the most progressive country in Central America with no close rival. Yet some North American left intellectuals are preoccupied with Nicaragua’s shortcomings while not clearly recognizing that it is being attacked by a domestic rightwing in league with the US government. Noam Chomsky is a leading world left intellectual and should be acclaimed for his contributions. His incisive warning about the US nuclear policyis just one essential example. Nevertheless, he is also indicative of a tendency in the North American left to accept a bit too readily the talking points of imperialist propaganda, regarding the present-day Sandinistas. There is a disconnect between Chomsky’s urging Nicaraguans to replace Ortega with new elections and his longtime and forceful advocacy against US imperialist depredations of countries like Nicaragua. Such elections in Nicaragua would not only be unconstitutional but would further destabilize a profoundly destabilized situation. Given the unpopularity and disunity of the opposition and the unity and organizational strength of the Sandinistas, Ortega would likely win. Most important, the key role of Northern American solidarity activists is to end US interference in Nicaragua so that the Nicaraguans can solve their own problems. The rightwing violence since April in Nicaragua should be understood as a coup attempt. A significant portion of the Nicaraguan people have rallied around their elected government as seen in the massive demonstrations commemorating the Sandinista revolution on July 19. For now, the rightwing tranques (blockades) have been dismantled and citizens can again freely circulate without being shaken down and threatened. In the aftermath, though, Nicaragua has suffered unacceptable human deaths, massive public property damage, and a wounded economy with the debilitating NICA Act threatening to pass the US Senate. Briefs By Nan McCurdy Walk for Peace with Justice and Non-Intervention in Managua Thousands of people walked Saturday in Managua and in other municipalities demanding justice for those killed by the terrorists at the roadblocks. They also demanded non-intervention in Nicaragua with the reminder that Nicaragua is a sovereign nation. They marched for peace and in defense of the national health system and included a kind of parade of burned/destroyed government vehicles. Well over a hundred government vehicles were attacked, destroyed and burned over the last months including over fifty ambulances. Health centers and hospitals were also affected. See pictures of Managua, Carazo, Jalapa, San Juan de Rio Coco, Boaco and more: http://www.radiolaprimerisima.com/noticias/general/247556/caminata-por-paz-y-la-no-injerencia-extranjera/ (Radio La Primerisima, Aug. 4) https://www.el19digital.com/articulos/ver/titulo:79921-pobladores-de-el-rosario-carazo-exigen-castigo-por-victimas-del-terrorismo (El Digital 19, Aug. 5) https://www.el19digital.com/articulos/ver/titulo:79920-jalapa-en-caminata-por-la-justicia-y-reparacion-a-las-victimas-del-golpe-terrorista (El Digital 19, Aug. 5) https://www.tn8.tv/departamentos/454791-caravana-justicia-paz-san-juan-rio-coco-madriz/ (TN 8, Aug. 5) https://www.tn8.tv/departamentos/454767-boaco-vuelve-pedir-justicia-victimas-asesinadas-terroristas/ (TN8, Aug. 4) Rebuilding infrastructure in tourism sector The President of the Nicaragua Institute of Municipal Development (INIFOM), Guiomar Irías, announced that it is advancing in the rebuilding of infrastructure destroyed by terrorist groups. "A 90% progress has been achieved in the repair of infrastructure and reactivation of small businesses in Granada, Masaya and Rivas Departments, which is a major tourism route in Nicaragua," the INIFOM President said. (Nicaragua News, Aug. 2) Nicaragua calls the Organization of American States Interventionist Nicaragua strongly rejected a new and fifth attempt by the Permanent Council of the OAS to create a commission of a number of countries called a “Working Group” whose mission would be to support the national dialogue and contribute to the “search for peaceful and sustainable solutions.” Nicaraguan Foreign Minister Denis Moncada said, “This is on top of three OAS groups that are already in Nicaragua – the IACHR, MESENI and the GIEI (International Group of Independent Experts).” The duration of the new group is not specified nor are its procedures. “This would set a precedent to apply to other nations, Moncada added.” There were 20 votes in favor out of 34 nations. The resolution was led by the US and its allies and Moncada called it illegitimate, saying, “Its intention continues to be of an interventionist character.” (Informe Pastran, Aug. 2) The Coup was Defeated: Moncada on the OAS Foreign Minister Denis Moncada accused the Organization of American States of becoming a colony administrator for the US in favor of foreign intervention in the affairs of certain Latin American countries. He also blamed the US for supporting and financing local groups that attempted a coup d’état against a legally elected government, when Nicaragua has recovered peace, order, security and has ended the roadblocks put up by the opposition. “The coup has been defeated and this has blocked the imperial intentions of the US.” He then protested, “But now comes blackmail and pressure by the US to damage the Nicaraguan economy promoting economic blockades of Nicaragua in the multilateral financial institutions.” (Informe Pastran Aug. 2) President Ortega says Nicaragua will not invite the new “OAS Working Group” “They have plenty of problems in their own nations, to want to come interfere in our situation.” “The OAS has been a historic instrument created by the US to control the entire region and to accompaniment the US when it invades Latin American countries.” (Informe Pastran, Aug. 6) Government went to Vatican as part of Efforts to Restart the Dialogue Foreign Minister Denis Moncada says the Dialogue is stuck due to the actions of some members of the Catholic Bishops Conference who have openly favored the opposition. He added, “We need mediation by the Bishops who do not show partiality. And that’s why we went to the Vatican. We should find the best way to define a new dialogue and avoid foreign intervention. The great media machine, certain human rights groups and certain international institutions have created the image of a repressive government. In the lists of those who have died, they include people who have died in traffic accidents, from heart attacks, from operations – this is a very irresponsible behavior which does not help to resolve a complex situation. Every death is important and we are investigating the deaths through the Commission for Truth.” He added, “In the last visit with the United Nations we felt that we were heard.” Moncada met with the UN Secretary General in New York three weeks ago. “The UN has promised to accompany us in the new attempt at a Dialogue,” he said. (Informe Pastran, Aug. 6) Strong condemnation of terrorist attack in Venezuela Vice President Rosario Murillo said the Nicaraguan government firmly condemns the terrorist attack against Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro last Saturday in Caracas. "We are outraged, with our hearts filled with revolutionary solidarity, we strongly reject and condemn the criminal attack perpetrated by the same terrorists who wanted to destroy our country and now have tried to take the life of President Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela," Vice President Murillo said. (Nicaragua News, Aug. 6) Venezuelan Foreign Minister: Investigations point to the United States and Columbia Jorge Arreaza, Foreign Minister of Venezuela, stated that the attempt on the life of President Nicolas Maduro on Saturday, is part of the ongoing coup attempt against the government. President Maduro also accused the Venezuelan far-right and the Columbian far-right, working with Columbian President Juan Manuel Santos, whose term ends this week. President Maduro said the material authors of the attack against his life are being processed. President Maduro called on Donald Trump to be ready to combat terrorist groups that try to kill presidents in completely peaceful nations like Venezuela. “I’m alive thanks to the people and the Venezuelan Armed Forces”. Saturday afternoon during his speech for the eighty-first anniversary of the Bolivarian National Guard, a group of drones exploded near the President. Seven military were wounded. (19 Digital, Aug 5) Youth Murdered by Opposition Received as Hero by Sandinistas Twenty-year-old Dariel Steven Gutierrez Rios was shot in the head in an ambush in La Trinidad, Estelí, while participating in an FSLN caravan that was trying to travel to Managua to be part of a Sandinista Peace Gathering and a salute to Mothers on May 30th. At the moment of the attack at an opposition roadblock in La Trinidad the terrorists killed Jairo Antonio Osorio of Jalapa, and wounded twenty-one others including Gutierrez. His struggle for life lasted two months and he died July 31. The Department of Madriz paid homage to Gutierrez and his family with a caravan of hundreds of Sandinistas. http://www.radiolaprimerisima.com/noticias/general/247369/sandinistas-reciben-restos-de-joven-asesinado-en-esteli/ (Radio La Primerisima, Radio Ya, Aug. 1) https://nuevaya.com.ni/fallece-joven-segoviano-victima-del-terrorismo-golpista-contra-familias-sandinistas/ (Nueva Ya, Jul. 31) Police Captain César Martín Blandón Urrutia, Murdered in Department of Carazo The 45-year-old Captain was shot Sunday August 5 at approximately 8pm in the community of “Triangulo del Oro”, municipality of Jinotepe (There was a great deal of opposition violence in this area). Captain Blandon worked in Matagalpa and had gone to Masaya for the weekend to see family. When he was killed, he was looking to buy a motorcycle. Along with his life the delinquents took his pistol, his money, his civilian jacket and his shoes. Investigations are ongoing. (Police Press Report, Aug 6) Another Wounded Sandinista Dies as a result of Coup Violence On August 3, Luis Enrique Montano died. He was severely wounded July 14 in Somoto by an opposition delinquent on a motorcycle. Montano was transferred by other Sandinistas from Montano’s village of Cacauli to Somoto. (Informe Pastran, Aug. 3) Government Visits Survivors of Violence around the County – Portobanco was Tortured. In Boaco, government officials visited Jose Antonio Portobanco who was tortured by the opposition delinquents in April and amazingly came out alive. Crying he said “I feel so grateful for the support of my work companions. I’m still not well enough to work but hope to recuperate soon. It’s terrible how the terrorists robbed my freedom and the happiness that I once enjoyed. I ask for justice – they need to pay for their crimes.” The officials also visited 29-year-old Yefrin Rafael Sevilla Saravia who is recuperating from a gunshot wound. He was shot while he and others were rescuing a group of women being violated by coup-terrorists at the roadblocks. “What happened to me was a terrorist act. They have to pay in some way for what they did.” The survivors, with tears in their eyes, shared what had happened and thanked God for giving them their lives again. They asked for justice for those who were killed. https://www.tn8.tv/departamentos/454729-autoridades-boaco-visitan-victimas-terrorismo-golpista/ (Channel 8, Aug. 3) Like What we're doing? Please Consider making a Donation! [https://default.salsalabs.org/aaf5aefe-1113-44db-abc4-ffbfb3066a00/c2a450a3-bfde-4c96-b2da-4f9c93f8bf05.png] Contact Us Alliance for Global Justice 225 E 26th St Ste 1 Tucson, Arizona 85713-2925 202-540-8336 afgj at afgj.org Manage Subscription [https://default.salsalabs.org/Xaaf5aefe-1113-44db-abc4-ffbfb3066a00/b2d85dfd-dfc4-4887-831e-662378646487] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From divisek at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 02:47:32 2018 From: divisek at yahoo.com (Dianna Visek) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 02:47:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] a new form of apartheid in South Africa References: <1249746137.5439649.1533869252045.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1249746137.5439649.1533869252045@mail.yahoo.com> This is an excerpt from a blog by Wayne Root, link given below. That brings me to one of the most incredible examples in the history of the U.S. media. It happened in South Africa two weeks ago. You’re won’t believe what Obama did. Nor will you believe the mainstream medias has chosen to cover it up. But they did. Anyone remember apartheid? That was the political and economic system of South Africa that saw blacks purposely kept in misery and poverty by the white minority. It was illegal for blacks to own property. This was a horrible, inhumane, evil system. Americans of all races and political ideologies should have been offended and outraged by apartheid. But are you aware South Africa has a new version of apartheid? I’ll bet you’re not. No one in the U.S. media has covered it. No headlines this time around. As a matter of fact, not a word. To my knowledge, only one national TV or radio host in the country has been exposing this terrible new apartheid for months on end- yours truly. Only because in my second career as a business speaker, I’ve lectured on entrepreneurship all around the world. I’ve spoken a half dozen times in South Africa. I’ve given speeches in front of thousands in Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durbin. I’ve gotten to know the people of South Africa. I’ve made many wonderful friends for life. That’s why I’ve been aware for months of this new apartheid. But this time it’s human rights and civil rights violations by the black majority of South Africa. This time it’s blatant discrimination, racism, and hate crimes by the black majority. This time it’s legal for blacks to steal the land of whites. This time it’s blacks murdering whites with impunity. South African President Cyril Ramaphosa and his ruling ANC (African National Congress) have made it legal to forcibly take land from white farmers and property owners. That was the first step. Now comes the next radical step. The president and his Congress are changing the Constitution to allow the South African government to forcibly take any white person’s land, this time without any compensation. Pure theft. Because of the color of their skin, white families are left in poverty. Left homeless. Left without a livelihood. Worse, the president and several of his political allies have threatened to murder white property owners who refuse to hand over their property. They actually said they have no plans at the moment for a “genocide.” The inference being that if white farmers and property owners put up a fight, the next step will be a genocide. An emboldened citizenry is already taking matters into its own hands. A UK newspaper reports one white farmer is murdered every five days in South Africa. Hundreds of white land owners have been killed or badly injured in mob attacks since 2016. Yet the world says nothing. The media says nothing. Politicians say nothing. Hollywood celebrities say nothing. There are no protests, or calls for boycotts. Hard to believe. Enter Obama. The former US President recently accepted a speech in South Africa. He undoubtedly collected a fortune for that speech. That’s called “blood money.” Obama was paid with money tainted by racism, theft and murder. How badly does an ex-President need money? Why would he accept this money? Worse, he didn’t use that platform to say a word about the new apartheid. Worse yet, he stood on that stage next to the president of South Africa, lending him credibility. Then, worst of all, he praised the president who presides over a country stealing white owned land, murdering whites and threatening genocide. This could be the most disgraceful speech ever by a former U.S. president. Yet the media said nothing. President Trump calls Don Lemon of CNN “dumb” on twitter. It creates a media firestorm. Trump “must be a racist.” Obama praises the president of a nation murdering and robbing white people because of their race. No one says a word. What Obama did in South Africa should the biggest news in America. The fact that you never even heard about it, tells you everything about the fraud, deceit and fake news of the mainstream media. This is an excerpt from You Won't Believe What Obama Did in South Africa - Wayne Root -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 10:02:40 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 05:02:40 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Gina Haspel CIA Torture Cables Declassified References: <1774257891.958599486@salsa4.salsa4DB.mail.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: The National Security Archive > Subject: Gina Haspel CIA Torture Cables Declassified > Date: August 10, 2018 at 5:01:03 AM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Reply-To: nsarchiv at gwu.edu > > > Gina Haspel CIA Torture Cables Declassified > > National Security Archive Wins FOIA Lawsuit for Thailand Black Site Reports > Haspel described extended sessions of physical violence and waterboarding; CIA cables detail contract psychologists Mitchell and Jessen working for Haspel > > National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 636 > > View the posting > Washington D.C., August 10, 2018 – Current CIA director Gina Haspel described graphic acts of deliberate physical torture including the waterboarding of a suspected Al-Qa’ida terrorist under her supervision when she was chief of base at a CIA black site in Thailand in 2002, according to declassified CIA cables – most of which she wrote or authorized – obtained by the National Security Archive through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit and posted on the Web today. > The Haspel cables detail conditions the public has only seen in the infamous Abu Ghraib photographs from Iraq of detainees hooded and shackled, forced nudity, wall slamming, and box confinement, as well as “enhanced techniques” never photographed such as the simulated drowning of suspects on the waterboard. Waterboarding is a war crime under both U.S. and international law, dating back to U.S. prosecution of Japanese solders for torturing U.S. POWs during World War II. > Although the CIA redacted Haspel’s name and those of the CIA contract psychologists James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen who administered the waterboard, other declassified documents (including the 2004 CIA Inspector General report) and public statements confirm their leadership of the torture of alleged terrorist Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri at the black site between November 15 and December 4, 2002. > “Release of Gina Haspel’s torture cables shows the power of the Freedom of Information Act to bring accountability even to the highest levels of the CIA,” said Archive director Tom Blanton, who first identified the Haspel cables from a footnote (336 on p. 67) in the Senate Intelligence Committee torture report declassified in 2014. > The Archive filed its FOIA request for the Haspel cables on April 16, 2018, after she was nominated by President Trump to be CIA director. Despite the clear public interest in the documents, the CIA denied the Archive’s request for expedited processing, and the Archive went to court on April 27. The U.S. Senate confirmed Haspel as CIA director on May 17 (by a vote of 54-45) on the basis of a record amassed almost exclusively in closed hearings, with no declassification or public release of information even remotely approaching that of previous CIA nominees. > Check out today's posting at the National Security Archive > Find us on Facebook > Read Unredacted , the Archive blog > THE NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVE is an independent non-governmental research institute and library located at The George Washington University in Washington, D.C. The Archive collects and publishes declassified documents acquired through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). A tax-exempt public charity, the Archive receives no U.S. government funding; its budget is supported by publication royalties and donations from foundations and individuals. > PRIVACY NOTICE The National Security Archive does not and will never share the names or e-mail addresses of its subscribers with any other organization. Once a year, we will write you and ask for your financial support. We may also ask you for your ideas for Freedom of Information requests, documentation projects, or other issues that the Archive should take on. We would welcome your input, and any information you care to share with us about your special interests. But we do not sell or rent any information about subscribers to any other party. > > > Connect with us > > > National Security Archive, Suite 701 > Gelman Library > The George Washington University > 2130 H Street, NW > Washington, D.C., 20037 > Phone: 202/994-7000< > Fax: 202/994-7005 > nsarchiv at gwu.edu > Click here to unsubscribe > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Fri Aug 10 16:22:31 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:22:31 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: In defence of populism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB207440@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> ________________________________ From: spiked [spiked-central=spiked-online.com at cmail20.com] on behalf of spiked [spiked-central at spiked-online.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:00 AM To: Estabrook, Carl G Subject: In defence of populism [http://i1.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_banner2_0.gif] Friday 10 August 2018 [http://i3.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_grey_red_divider_2.gif] Comment [http://i5.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/headline_new_newsletter_4.jpg] Brendan O’Neill Editor The word populist is chucked around like a swearword these days. Like a label to be used by an embattled political establishment to dismiss those forces that are calling its worldview into question. Against this misrepresentation, the latest spiked review explores the positive and sometimes radical kernel of today’s populist surge. We have Matthew Goodwin on populism as the longing for meaningful politics; Udi Greenberg on the folly of comparing today with the 1930s; Tom Slater on why Brexit cannot be undone; Carlo Invernizzi Accetti on the techno-populism of Italy’s M5S; Miguel Murado on the rise and fall of Podemos; and Daniel Ben-Ami on the elite turn against social media. Like this email? Forward it to a friend. [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] [http://i7.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/review_populism_6.png] [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] Featured articles this week [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] [http://i8.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/burqa1_email_7.jpg] [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Brendan O’Neill Islam Who’s really racist – Boris or his critics? It is the refusal to criticise certain groups that smacks of racism. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Frank Furedi Anti-Semitism Why Labour has a problem with Jews The new anti-Semitism is identity politics in action. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Mick Hume Brexit Boris burqa row: another excuse to bash Brexit voters Remainer elitists are hiding their prejudices behind a veil. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Julie Burchill LGBT The problem with gay surrogacy There’s something narcissistic in demanding your own biological children. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Joanna Williams Education Leave those kids alone Now officials want five-year-olds to pick their own gender. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] spiked Q&A The problem with ‘woke’ comedy Simon Evans on how sanctimony is dulling our sense of humour. [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] [http://i9.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/email-pro-brexit-journalism_8.gif] [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] Other articles this week [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Brendan O’Neill Free Speech Alex Jones and the rise of corporate censorship The banning of Infowars is an alarming act of capitalist intolerance. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Fraser Myers Islamophobia Boris’s burqa-bashing is not ‘Islamophobic’ Ring-fencing Islamic culture from criticism has created a new intolerance. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Tim Black Zimbabwe Zimbabwe: a victory for Mugabeism Zanu-PF’s election victory shows how little has changed. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Ashley Frawley Norway The dystopia of the child-protection industry From Norway to Britain, more kids are being seized from their parents. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Brendan O’Neill Free speech How the left made Tommy Robinson It was their censorship of ‘Islamophobia’ that made Robinson a star. [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] [http://i10.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/fsur2018-email-banner-460_9.gif] [http://i6.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/newsletter_red_divider_5.gif] [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Jon Holbrook Law The UK has abandoned the presumption of innocence The ‘golden thread’ of English law has been eroded by judges and lawmakers. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Ella Whelan Mental Health How feminism makes life harder for girls Girls are stressed because they’re constantly told to expect the worst. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Karl Kemp Amsterdam A feeling of apartheid in Holland A South African writer sees too much of his homeland in multicultural Europe. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Sarah Jeong and the battle of the Twittermobs The left is now on the receiving end of the outrage culture it created. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Ieuan Joy Free speech They’re not book‑burners – they’re morons The Bookmarks stunt was dumb and illiberal, but this is not the 1930s. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] James Woudhuysen Tech No, we are not addicted to smartphones The idea that we’re at the mercy of Silicon Valley is an elitist myth. [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Edinburgh Felicity Ward: a sharp and lovable return [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Edinburgh Status: citizens of nowhere? [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Edinburgh Mark Watson gets personal [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Edinburgh The Song of Lunch: stilted but serviceable [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] Christian Butler Edinburgh Voldemort: a foul-mouthed Potter parody [http://i2.cmail20.com/ei/i/70/E2C/E9F/235427/csimport/pixel_1.gif] This email was sent to galliher at illinois.edu. If you are no longer interested you can unsubscribe instantly. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:46:58 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Good books and bad beer - August 25 Message-ID: GOOD BOOKS AND BAD BEER - AUGUST 25 Dear friends, After 32 years at 5 Litchfield Lane in Champaign, my bride and I are moving to more manageable quarters. In pursuit of felicity, I have in those years acquired a number of books and a fair number of bottles of bad beer. Will you come help relieve me of these burdens on Saturday August 25, from 5pm to 8? We’ll have a first floor and a basement of books for the taking and a dining room of miscellaneous beer for the drinking. The books are generally better than the the beers, but that’s probably true in life - in spite of Housman’s despairing asseveration, “...malt does more than Milton can / To justify God’s ways to man.” What Ben Franklin is supposed to have said was probably closer to the truth: “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” (A Francophile, he was probably actually speaking of wine.) You’re welcome to take the books (and the beer) you like. It would please me if friends enjoyed books I’ve enjoyed. (That’s not so possible with the beer, but you’re welcome to that too.) Bring a bag to carry the books, and a thirst to accommodate the beer. Leigh and I look forward to seeing you 5-8pm on the 25th. Regards, Carl From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sat Aug 11 17:12:57 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 17:12:57 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] More FREE dirt on Hillary References: <2n1vmbp5scqqcnaufw5lgdxd0f0tab@dm.msg> Message-ID: <529ED304-96F1-4823-8D6B-4814B6E3F9BD@illinois.edu> From: Newsmax.com > Subject: Hillary Confessed - And It Was All Caught on Tape Date: August 11, 2018 ‌ [Newsmax.com] Dear Newsmax Reader: Please take a moment to read the special message from our advertising sponsor, Health Sciences Institute. Our sponsors help us keep our news service free, though we do not necessarily endorse this message. Newsmax.com Caught On Tape: Hillary Makes MAJOR Confession (This is mortifying...) [http://extnewmarketmedia.com/images/uploads/hillary-flag-vid1.png] Hillary Clinton had a MAJOR slip-up, accidentally admitting to THIS embarrassing act. Her team panicked and immediately began doing everything they could to bury what's in this video. But for a short amount of time, you can still watch her unravel before your eyes. Click Here To Watch Now This email was sent by: Newsmax.com 1501 Northpoint Parkway, Suite 104 West Palm Beach, FL 33407 USA 1806032 9898-1 [http://news.newsmax.com/?SK4RYZGX0YdIOuuln9Ydh2V-6rbzNlvAS] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuartnlevy at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 19:21:43 2018 From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (stuartnlevy) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 14:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Documentary film, "The Pacifist" In-Reply-To: <79EE1A70-D2B7-4BD3-AEFA-A22A0D1B7803@ntelos.net> Message-ID: <5b6f374b.1c69fb81.f6b68.459f@mx.google.com> Film recommended by someone on the War Tax Resisters email list....  -- Stuart -------- Original message --------From: Larry Bassett Date: 8/10/18 22:45 (GMT-06:00) To: ...Subject: Re: WTRPF summer letter First let me apologize for borrowing this list of more than 100 email addresses from the penalty fund. I assure you that I will only use this list for this single mailing and it will not be used by me again. But I thought it was too good and opportunity to pass up to share some information that I think many of you might appreciate. For those who may not, I again apologize. The Pacifist is a documentary film just recently completed. It is currently Being submitted to many film festivals nationally and internationally. This is one of the ways that a very low-budget film receives some attention and seeks a source of distribution. In the meantime an audible version of the film has been released and a two links follow with my encouragement that you listen to this presentation. If you find it worthwhile your help in sharing this resource with others would certainly be appreciated. https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nM_pYkbmY47HxOpw6S1JjidP8jlLVgkEg https://open.spotify.com/album/6Jt1L4Dy7TUWFwil6v9wMH?si=HItCPvbgS5msxBm-dC3VfA Peace,LarryBassett  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 08:17:36 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 03:17:36 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News from Neptune, August 10, 2018 Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYHOE7iYV4s An 'I Have a little List’ edition of News from Neptune. In US media, "Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” –Noam Chomsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 19:16:47 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 14:16:47 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Excellent analysis of Italy & U.S. bases Message-ID: * - www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org - * In Italy, There are 12,000 American Soldiers and 500,000 African Refugees: Connect the Dots Posted By Aidan O'Brien On August 10, 2018 @ 1:57 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled *Dublin, Ireland.* Why? Because the Italians are unable to do so. Euro-skepticism is thriving in Italy. However NATO-skepticism or US-skepticism is missing. Trump, the individual, might be a concern but the presence of the US military on the Italian peninsula is a sacred cow. The US war machine is expanding in Italy at the same rate as the expansion of the refugee numbers – the numbers that are infuriating Rome. However, the connection between one and the other is redacted from the Italian debate. Indeed in Europe as a whole, the link between US military bases and refugees is ignored. Blindness, it seems, is the preferred response of official Europe to the refugee crisis. As a result, the vulgar hostility shown to the North African and the Middle Eastern migrants in Europe contrasts with the sacred silence surrounding the presence of the American army in Europe. It’s as if the refugee crisis is a metaphysical mystery – as if it has no cause. You would think that the wars that caused the movements of people into Europe would encourage the Europeans to question and check the war markers. But this thought is too rational for Europeans today. Instead, Europe questions the bona fides of the victims of war, rather than the intentions of the warmongering USA. The latest political fiasco in Italy is exemplary. The latest general elections in Italy (March) eventually produced a government in May / June that is dominated by the anti-establishment Five Star Movement. However, no sooner was this rebellion against the Italian status quo in power, than it turned into a racist rant. Leading this rant was the Northern League – the coalition partner of the Five Star Movement. The leader of ‘the League’ – Matteo Salvini – is Italy’s latest tough guy. And as Italy’s new interior minister he gets to pick on whoever he wants. And without a word of protest from the Five Star Movement, Salvini picked on the weakest people in the world – the African refugees sailing on substandard boats across the Mediterranean – direction Italy. In June, a boat called the Aquarius – chartered by a French NGO – had 630 African refugees on board and was looking to dock in an Italian port. Salvini said no. And the rest of the Italy agreed. Italy had officially turned its back to Africa’s war refugees. The sinister fact, though, is that Italy continues to embrace the US war machine that creates Africa’s war refugees. Despite Italy’s new “rebel” leadership and new “tough guy” image, Italy continues to be a subservient third class member of the US Empire. In other words, Italy today may act the “hard man” in the Mediterranean when confronted with African refugees. But when face to face with America’s Mediterranean war machine: Italy is a coward. The proof is in the numbers. A 2007 blog listed 113 US military bases in Italy. Everything from submarines to bombers, and from radars to grunts, fill up these bases. And in 2017 the Pew Research Center released the numbers (as of 2016) of active duty US military personnel based in foreign countries. Italy had the fourth highest number of US soldiers present on its soil: 12,088. Only Japan (38,818), Germany (34,602) and South Korea (24,189) had a greater US military presence inside their borders. The latter three countries, however, have been on the frontline of the Cold War for decades. Italy has not. So how come Italy houses the fourth largest US garrison in the world? Why does Italy have so much US military hardware and the US personnel needed to enable this firepower – on its soil? How come Italy, in the sense of US military numbers, is more important than Afghanistan, Iraq, Britain and Qatar? And why is only a minuscule few talking about it? The subtitle of a 2013 TomDispatch.com article explains all. “How the Pentagon Is Using Your Tax Dollars to Turn Italy into a Launching Pad for the Wars of Today and Tomorrow”. The writer of this informative piece, David Vine, outlines the meaning for Italy – of America’s “War on Terror” and America’s “Pivot to Africa”. (Vine counts only 59 US bases in Italy). Since the year 2000, the USA has basically turned the Italian peninsula into a dagger, that’s stabbing at the Mediterranean in general, and at Africa in particular. The wars against Islam and AFRICOM changed America’s relationship with Italy. In 2005, the US navy moved its European headquarters from London to Naples. In 2008, United States Army Africa (USARAF) set up shop outside Venice (Vicenza). And Sicily (the Sigonella base, near Catania) became a major center for US drones and other attack and surveillance aircraft – directed at Africa. As the Soviet threat to Europe vanished in the 1990s – new enemies had to be found in the 2000s. New wars had to be invented. America couldn’t just let Europe be free. And because of Italy’s unique geopolitics (it’s blessing and it’s curse) the US military moved in like a parasite. Italy became Europe’s ‘Okinawa’. It could be said that all this was written in the stars (the Five Stars?). The USA is in the DNA of contemporary Italy. The infamous American, Allen Dulles, no less, managed and manipulated the birth of post-World War II Italy. Dulles running around lake Como, in the north of Italy – in 1945 – saving the Nazis from the partisans, sums up that birth (see David Talbot’s The Devil’s Chessboard ). And it has been downhill ever since. Sixty six Italian governments later – a guy who wants African war refugees to drown in the Mediterranean is running the show. While the thought of desperate Africans entering Italy upsets Matteo Salvini – he seems unperturbed by the thought of a foreign army ‘at war with Africa’ basing itself in Italy. Something is amiss. It’s not logical to attack the symptom (refugees) and ignore the cause (war). Unless – of course – the cause is embedded into the structure. Then it is logical to protect the cause – otherwise the structure collapses. And that’s the absurd situation Italy is in today. The sovereignty it wants to defend includes the presence of a nefarious foreign power, deep within the structure of the country. So Salvini’s slogan “Italians First” in truth means “US Military First”, “Italians Second” and “African Refugees Last”. That’s the structure of Italy today. And the Five Star Movement and Salvini’s League are part of the structure. These new political parties are not rebellious, but are structural. They do not represent a threat to the ‘Italy’ Allen Dulles created. And they don’t represent a threat to ‘the world’ Allen Dulles created. Stuck in a militarized structure that has ‘Made in the US Empire’ written all over it – in invisible ink, because the US bases are protected by the local media – ordinary Italians today misdirect their anger and confusion. And because it is a deep structural problem, the solution is not a fake rebellion but a real revolution. One that sees African refugees as political allies rather than as social problems. One that has ‘working class’ written all over it. Article printed from www.counterpunch.org: * https://www.counterpunch.org * URL to article: * https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/10/in-italy-there-are-12000-american-soldiers-and-500000-african-refugees-connect-the-dots/ * Click here to print. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 23:27:07 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 18:27:07 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE's (After the Bombs) Fall Film Series Message-ID: At the AWARE meeting tonight a fall film series, sponsored by AWARE, was suggested - at the Library or perhaps the Art Theatre. Films mentioned were Fail Safe (1964), Dr. Strangelove (1964), and When the Wind Blows (1986). Panels after the films would attempt to update the themes to the present moment. I realized only after the meeting that we’d left out the best after-the-bomb film of all, On the Beach (1959). Other suggestions are welcome. —CGE ______________________________ * Fail Safe is a 1964 Cold War thriller film directed by Sidney Lumet, based on the 1962 novel of the same name by Eugene Burdick and Harvey Wheeler. It portrays a fictional account of a nuclear crisis. The film features performances by actors Henry Fonda, Dan O'Herlihy, Walter Matthau and Frank Overton. Larry Hagman, Fritz Weaver, Dom DeLuise and Sorrell Booke appeared in early film roles. Fail Safe describes how Cold War tensions between the Soviet Union and the United States lead to an accidental thermonuclear first strike after an error sends a group of US bombers to bomb Moscow. In 2000, the novel was adapted again as a televised play, starring George Clooney, Richard Dreyfuss and Noah Wyle, and broadcast live in black and white on CBS. [Wikipedia] From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 23:52:30 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 18:52:30 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Excellent analysis of Italy & U.S. bases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A tendentious account - worth arguing about. Perhaps David and I will do so this Friday on News from Neptune (to be posted on YouTube) —CGE > On Aug 12, 2018, at 2:16 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: > > - www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org - > In Italy, There are 12,000 American Soldiers and 500,000 African Refugees: Connect the Dots > Posted By Aidan O'Brien On August 10, 2018 @ 1:57 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled > Dublin, Ireland. > > Why? Because the Italians are unable to do so. Euro-skepticism is thriving in Italy. However NATO-skepticism or US-skepticism is missing. Trump, the individual, might be a concern but the presence of the US military on the Italian peninsula is a sacred cow. > > The US war machine is expanding in Italy at the same rate as the expansion of the refugee numbers – the numbers that are infuriating Rome. However, the connection between one and the other is redacted from the Italian debate. > > Indeed in Europe as a whole, the link between US military bases and refugees is ignored. Blindness, it seems, is the preferred response of official Europe to the refugee crisis. As a result, the vulgar hostility shown to the North African and the Middle Eastern migrants in Europe contrasts with the sacred silence surrounding the presence of the American army in Europe. > > It’s as if the refugee crisis is a metaphysical mystery – as if it has no cause. You would think that the wars that caused the movements of people into Europe would encourage the Europeans to question and check the war markers. But this thought is too rational for Europeans today. Instead, Europe questions the bona fides of the victims of war, rather than the intentions of the warmongering USA. > > The latest political fiasco in Italy is exemplary. The latest general elections in Italy (March) eventually produced a government in May / June that is dominated by the anti-establishment Five Star Movement. However, no sooner was this rebellion against the Italian status quo in power, than it turned into a racist rant. > > Leading this rant was the Northern League – the coalition partner of the Five Star Movement. The leader of ‘the League’ – Matteo Salvini – is Italy’s latest tough guy. And as Italy’s new interior minister he gets to pick on whoever he wants. And without a word of protest from the Five Star Movement, Salvini picked on the weakest people in the world – the African refugees sailing on substandard boats across the Mediterranean – direction Italy. > > In June, a boat called the Aquarius – chartered by a French NGO – had 630 African refugees on board and was looking to dock in an Italian port. Salvini said no. And the rest of the Italy agreed. Italy had officially turned its back to Africa’s war refugees. > > The sinister fact, though, is that Italy continues to embrace the US war machine that creates Africa’s war refugees. Despite Italy’s new “rebel” leadership and new “tough guy” image, Italy continues to be a subservient third class member of the US Empire. In other words, Italy today may act the “hard man” in the Mediterranean when confronted with African refugees. But when face to face with America’s Mediterranean war machine: Italy is a coward. > > The proof is in the numbers. A 2007 blog listed 113 US military bases in Italy. Everything from submarines to bombers, and from radars to grunts, fill up these bases. And in 2017 the Pew Research Center released the numbers (as of 2016) of active duty US military personnel based in foreign countries. Italy had the fourth highest number of US soldiers present on its soil: 12,088. Only Japan (38,818), Germany (34,602) and South Korea (24,189) had a greater US military presence inside their borders. The latter three countries, however, have been on the frontline of the Cold War for decades. Italy has not. > > So how come Italy houses the fourth largest US garrison in the world? Why does Italy have so much US military hardware and the US personnel needed to enable this firepower – on its soil? How come Italy, in the sense of US military numbers, is more important than Afghanistan, Iraq, Britain and Qatar? And why is only a minuscule few talking about it? > > The subtitle of a 2013 TomDispatch.com article explains all. “How the Pentagon Is Using Your Tax Dollars to Turn Italy into a Launching Pad for the Wars of Today and Tomorrow”. The writer of this informative piece, David Vine, outlines the meaning for Italy – of America’s “War on Terror” and America’s “Pivot to Africa”. (Vine counts only 59 US bases in Italy). > > Since the year 2000, the USA has basically turned the Italian peninsula into a dagger, that’s stabbing at the Mediterranean in general, and at Africa in particular. The wars against Islam and AFRICOM changed America’s relationship with Italy. In 2005, the US navy moved its European headquarters from London to Naples. In 2008, United States Army Africa (USARAF) set up shop outside Venice (Vicenza). And Sicily (the Sigonella base, near Catania) became a major center for US drones and other attack and surveillance aircraft – directed at Africa. > > As the Soviet threat to Europe vanished in the 1990s – new enemies had to be found in the 2000s. New wars had to be invented. America couldn’t just let Europe be free. And because of Italy’s unique geopolitics (it’s blessing and it’s curse) the US military moved in like a parasite. Italy became Europe’s ‘Okinawa’. > > It could be said that all this was written in the stars (the Five Stars?). The USA is in the DNA of contemporary Italy. The infamous American, Allen Dulles, no less, managed and manipulated the birth of post-World War II Italy. Dulles running around lake Como, in the north of Italy – in 1945 – saving the Nazis from the partisans, sums up that birth (see David Talbot’s The Devil’s Chessboard ). And it has been downhill ever since. > > Sixty six Italian governments later – a guy who wants African war refugees to drown in the Mediterranean is running the show. While the thought of desperate Africans entering Italy upsets Matteo Salvini – he seems unperturbed by the thought of a foreign army ‘at war with Africa’ basing itself in Italy. Something is amiss. > > It’s not logical to attack the symptom (refugees) and ignore the cause (war). Unless – of course – the cause is embedded into the structure. Then it is logical to protect the cause – otherwise the structure collapses. And that’s the absurd situation Italy is in today. The sovereignty it wants to defend includes the presence of a nefarious foreign power, deep within the structure of the country. > > So Salvini’s slogan “Italians First” in truth means “US Military First”, “Italians Second” and “African Refugees Last”. That’s the structure of Italy today. And the Five Star Movement and Salvini’s League are part of the structure. These new political parties are not rebellious, but are structural. They do not represent a threat to the ‘Italy’ Allen Dulles created. And they don’t represent a threat to ‘the world’ Allen Dulles created. > > Stuck in a militarized structure that has ‘Made in the US Empire’ written all over it – in invisible ink, because the US bases are protected by the local media – ordinary Italians today misdirect their anger and confusion. > > And because it is a deep structural problem, the solution is not a fake rebellion but a real revolution. One that sees African refugees as political allies rather than as social problems. One that has ‘working class’ written all over it. > > Article printed from www.counterpunch.org : https://www.counterpunch.org > URL to article: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/10/in-italy-there-are-12000-american-soldiers-and-500000-african-refugees-connect-the-dots/ > Click here to print.    > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 02:21:47 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 21:21:47 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Excellent analysis of Italy & U.S. bases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <922C0D61-8DCA-4F07-95AD-722F697F5EF9@gmail.com> Some of the things O’Brien’s article doesn’t consider: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1002230/italy-news-european-union-italy-debt-eu-spending-giuseppe-conte > On Aug 12, 2018, at 2:16 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: > > - www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org - > In Italy, There are 12,000 American Soldiers and 500,000 African Refugees: Connect the Dots > Posted By Aidan O'Brien On August 10, 2018 @ 1:57 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled > Dublin, Ireland. > > Why? Because the Italians are unable to do so. Euro-skepticism is thriving in Italy. However NATO-skepticism or US-skepticism is missing. Trump, the individual, might be a concern but the presence of the US military on the Italian peninsula is a sacred cow. > > The US war machine is expanding in Italy at the same rate as the expansion of the refugee numbers – the numbers that are infuriating Rome. However, the connection between one and the other is redacted from the Italian debate. > > Indeed in Europe as a whole, the link between US military bases and refugees is ignored. Blindness, it seems, is the preferred response of official Europe to the refugee crisis. As a result, the vulgar hostility shown to the North African and the Middle Eastern migrants in Europe contrasts with the sacred silence surrounding the presence of the American army in Europe. > > It’s as if the refugee crisis is a metaphysical mystery – as if it has no cause. You would think that the wars that caused the movements of people into Europe would encourage the Europeans to question and check the war markers. But this thought is too rational for Europeans today. Instead, Europe questions the bona fides of the victims of war, rather than the intentions of the warmongering USA. > > The latest political fiasco in Italy is exemplary. The latest general elections in Italy (March) eventually produced a government in May / June that is dominated by the anti-establishment Five Star Movement. However, no sooner was this rebellion against the Italian status quo in power, than it turned into a racist rant. > > Leading this rant was the Northern League – the coalition partner of the Five Star Movement. The leader of ‘the League’ – Matteo Salvini – is Italy’s latest tough guy. And as Italy’s new interior minister he gets to pick on whoever he wants. And without a word of protest from the Five Star Movement, Salvini picked on the weakest people in the world – the African refugees sailing on substandard boats across the Mediterranean – direction Italy. > > In June, a boat called the Aquarius – chartered by a French NGO – had 630 African refugees on board and was looking to dock in an Italian port. Salvini said no. And the rest of the Italy agreed. Italy had officially turned its back to Africa’s war refugees. > > The sinister fact, though, is that Italy continues to embrace the US war machine that creates Africa’s war refugees. Despite Italy’s new “rebel” leadership and new “tough guy” image, Italy continues to be a subservient third class member of the US Empire. In other words, Italy today may act the “hard man” in the Mediterranean when confronted with African refugees. But when face to face with America’s Mediterranean war machine: Italy is a coward. > > The proof is in the numbers. A 2007 blog listed 113 US military bases in Italy. Everything from submarines to bombers, and from radars to grunts, fill up these bases. And in 2017 the Pew Research Center released the numbers (as of 2016) of active duty US military personnel based in foreign countries. Italy had the fourth highest number of US soldiers present on its soil: 12,088. Only Japan (38,818), Germany (34,602) and South Korea (24,189) had a greater US military presence inside their borders. The latter three countries, however, have been on the frontline of the Cold War for decades. Italy has not. > > So how come Italy houses the fourth largest US garrison in the world? Why does Italy have so much US military hardware and the US personnel needed to enable this firepower – on its soil? How come Italy, in the sense of US military numbers, is more important than Afghanistan, Iraq, Britain and Qatar? And why is only a minuscule few talking about it? > > The subtitle of a 2013 TomDispatch.com article explains all. “How the Pentagon Is Using Your Tax Dollars to Turn Italy into a Launching Pad for the Wars of Today and Tomorrow”. The writer of this informative piece, David Vine, outlines the meaning for Italy – of America’s “War on Terror” and America’s “Pivot to Africa”. (Vine counts only 59 US bases in Italy). > > Since the year 2000, the USA has basically turned the Italian peninsula into a dagger, that’s stabbing at the Mediterranean in general, and at Africa in particular. The wars against Islam and AFRICOM changed America’s relationship with Italy. In 2005, the US navy moved its European headquarters from London to Naples. In 2008, United States Army Africa (USARAF) set up shop outside Venice (Vicenza). And Sicily (the Sigonella base, near Catania) became a major center for US drones and other attack and surveillance aircraft – directed at Africa. > > As the Soviet threat to Europe vanished in the 1990s – new enemies had to be found in the 2000s. New wars had to be invented. America couldn’t just let Europe be free. And because of Italy’s unique geopolitics (it’s blessing and it’s curse) the US military moved in like a parasite. Italy became Europe’s ‘Okinawa’. > > It could be said that all this was written in the stars (the Five Stars?). The USA is in the DNA of contemporary Italy. The infamous American, Allen Dulles, no less, managed and manipulated the birth of post-World War II Italy. Dulles running around lake Como, in the north of Italy – in 1945 – saving the Nazis from the partisans, sums up that birth (see David Talbot’s The Devil’s Chessboard). And it has been downhill ever since. > > Sixty six Italian governments later – a guy who wants African war refugees to drown in the Mediterranean is running the show. While the thought of desperate Africans entering Italy upsets Matteo Salvini – he seems unperturbed by the thought of a foreign army ‘at war with Africa’ basing itself in Italy. Something is amiss. > > It’s not logical to attack the symptom (refugees) and ignore the cause (war). Unless – of course – the cause is embedded into the structure. Then it is logical to protect the cause – otherwise the structure collapses. And that’s the absurd situation Italy is in today. The sovereignty it wants to defend includes the presence of a nefarious foreign power, deep within the structure of the country. > > So Salvini’s slogan “Italians First” in truth means “US Military First”, “Italians Second” and “African Refugees Last”. That’s the structure of Italy today. And the Five Star Movement and Salvini’s League are part of the structure. These new political parties are not rebellious, but are structural. They do not represent a threat to the ‘Italy’ Allen Dulles created. And they don’t represent a threat to ‘the world’ Allen Dulles created. > > Stuck in a militarized structure that has ‘Made in the US Empire’ written all over it – in invisible ink, because the US bases are protected by the local media – ordinary Italians today misdirect their anger and confusion. > > And because it is a deep structural problem, the solution is not a fake rebellion but a real revolution. One that sees African refugees as political allies rather than as social problems. One that has ‘working class’ written all over it. > > Article printed from www.counterpunch.org: https://www.counterpunch.org > > URL to article: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/10/in-italy-there-are-12000-american-soldiers-and-500000-african-refugees-connect-the-dots/ > > Click here to print. > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 11:39:33 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 06:39:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <958649DA-ACE0-44CD-AC42-085C4DB9D7DA@gmail.com> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > > > > Dear Karen, > > Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. > > It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. > > We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. > > In solidarity, > All of us at ANSWER Coalition > http://www.answercoalition.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 11:55:03 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:55:03 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <958649DA-ACE0-44CD-AC42-085C4DB9D7DA@gmail.com> References: <958649DA-ACE0-44CD-AC42-085C4DB9D7DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 12:40:12 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:40:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <958649DA-ACE0-44CD-AC42-085C4DB9D7DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > >> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. >> >> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: > >> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. > >> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. > >> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. > >> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. > >> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: >> >> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >> >> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >> >> >> >>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Karen, >>> >>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>> >>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. >>> >>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. >>> >>> In solidarity, >>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Mon Aug 13 13:36:35 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:36:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday Message-ID: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently,  #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AMTo: Karen Aram;Cc: peace;Peace Discuss;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness.  US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”!      Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement.  That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere.    On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”.It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger.  In solidarity,  All of us at ANSWER Coalition  http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Mon Aug 13 13:36:35 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:36:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday Message-ID: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently,  #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AMTo: Karen Aram;Cc: peace;Peace Discuss;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness.  US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”!      Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement.  That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere.    On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”.It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger.  In solidarity,  All of us at ANSWER Coalition  http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 14:05:56 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:05:56 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Message-ID: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 14:05:56 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:05:56 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Message-ID: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 13 14:52:05 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 22:52:05 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Good books and bad beer - August 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I really see some value in being there for the libations as well as the perusal and absconding with (liberation of) the books. One could say there isnt any really bad beer, but I do recall some cheap brands called Buckhorn (???) and Blatz (made in Evansville IN) that were not the highest expression of the brewers art.  At least I didnt like Blatz and we would try to find a extra quarter or two so we could have Miller instead of Stroh's. Blatz beer sponsored the channel 7 weather with Marcia Yockey who was a real icon in Evansville and across southern Indiana and Illinois. I spent many evenings playing on the floor at my grandfathers house in the 60's when the news and weather from channel 7 was on.  She later went back to UHF channel 14 in 1971 where she stayed for another nearly 20 years. Marcia Yockey was a cool and eccentric character before it was cool to be eccentric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:196607MarciaYockeyS.jpg I'm from Milwaukee and I ought to know It's draft brewed Blatz beer wherever you go Smoother. fresher, less filling, it's clear Blatz is Milwaukee's finest beer. (Maybe,  but in Evansville it was pretty bad.) But the jingle was great and is indelibly burned there in my memory along with Marcia Yockey with her horse and scuba gear doing the weather map with a ink brush. C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > GOOD BOOKS AND BAD BEER - AUGUST 25 > > Dear friends, > > After 32 years at 5 Litchfield Lane in Champaign, my bride and I are moving to more manageable quarters. > > In pursuit of felicity, I have in those years acquired a number of books and a fair number of bottles of bad beer. > > Will you come help relieve me of these burdens on Saturday August 25, from 5pm to 8? > > We’ll have a first floor and a basement of books for the taking and a dining room of miscellaneous beer for the drinking. The books are generally better than the the beers, but that’s probably true in life - in spite of Housman’s despairing asseveration, “...malt does more than Milton can / To justify God’s ways to man.” > > What Ben Franklin is supposed to have said was probably closer to the truth: “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” (A Francophile, he was probably actually speaking of wine.) > > You’re welcome to take the books (and the beer) you like. It would please me if friends enjoyed books I’ve enjoyed. (That’s not so possible with the beer, but you’re welcome to that too.) Bring a bag to carry the books, and a thirst to accommodate the beer. > > Leigh and I look forward to seeing you 5-8pm on the 25th. > > Regards, Carl > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 13 15:30:15 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 23:30:15 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Message-ID: <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> I am not very impressed with the Democrats.  They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America.  Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > Carl > > The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after > the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger > alluded to that in his memoirs. > > As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by > the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four > years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people > weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that > time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war > had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk > about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer > an issue. > > When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. > > Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving > up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people > just gave up. > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net >> wrote: >> >> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the >> draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd >> largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & >> North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in >> London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a >> locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon >> purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. >> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. >> >> /Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone/ >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> *Date: *Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >> *To: *Karen Aram; >> *Cc: *peace;Peace Discuss; >> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in >> DC Yesterday >> >> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the >> revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers >> were no longer reliable. >> >> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as >> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a >> result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >> >> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the >> war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively >> resigned. >> >> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ >> for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary >> of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >> >> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in >> SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably >> follow a similar pattern. >> >> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ >> disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a >> Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, >> except incidentally, as this rally did. >> >> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement >> had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, >> “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any >> burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to >> assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >> >> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >> >> >> >>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building >>>> a movement. >>>> >>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization >>>> in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most >>>> Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing >>>> Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but >>>> the fact is: >>> >>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of >>>> Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the >>>> Democrats. >>> >>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is >>>> about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>> >>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I >>>> was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever >>>> protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is >>>> precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was >>>> extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>> >>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the >>>> streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>> >>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by >>>> the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause >>>> of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, >>>> organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of >>>> concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t >>>> getting us anywhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>> >>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ANSWER Coalition >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK >>>>> >>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>> >>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm >>>>> there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No >>>>> Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>> >>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many >>>>> communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and >>>>> old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought >>>>> they could come and rally in front of the White House, because >>>>> they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. >>>>> It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions >>>>> of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful >>>>> of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided >>>>> police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to >>>>> Virginia. >>>>> >>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming >>>>> days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank >>>>> you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people >>>>> volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. >>>>> Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the >>>>> basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even >>>>> stronger. >>>>> >>>>> In solidarity, >>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 13 15:30:15 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 23:30:15 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> Message-ID: <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> I am not very impressed with the Democrats.  They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America.  Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > Carl > > The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after > the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger > alluded to that in his memoirs. > > As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by > the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four > years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people > weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that > time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war > had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk > about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer > an issue. > > When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. > > Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving > up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people > just gave up. > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net >> wrote: >> >> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the >> draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd >> largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & >> North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in >> London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a >> locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon >> purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. >> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. >> >> /Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone/ >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> *Date: *Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >> *To: *Karen Aram; >> *Cc: *peace;Peace Discuss; >> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in >> DC Yesterday >> >> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the >> revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers >> were no longer reliable. >> >> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as >> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a >> result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >> >> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the >> war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively >> resigned. >> >> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ >> for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary >> of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >> >> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in >> SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably >> follow a similar pattern. >> >> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ >> disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a >> Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, >> except incidentally, as this rally did. >> >> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement >> had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, >> “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any >> burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to >> assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >> >> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >> >> >> >>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building >>>> a movement. >>>> >>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization >>>> in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most >>>> Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing >>>> Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but >>>> the fact is: >>> >>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of >>>> Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the >>>> Democrats. >>> >>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is >>>> about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>> >>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I >>>> was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever >>>> protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is >>>> precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was >>>> extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>> >>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the >>>> streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>> >>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by >>>> the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause >>>> of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, >>>> organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of >>>> concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t >>>> getting us anywhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>> >>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ANSWER Coalition >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK >>>>> >>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>> >>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm >>>>> there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No >>>>> Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>> >>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many >>>>> communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and >>>>> old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought >>>>> they could come and rally in front of the White House, because >>>>> they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. >>>>> It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions >>>>> of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful >>>>> of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided >>>>> police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to >>>>> Virginia. >>>>> >>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming >>>>> days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank >>>>> you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people >>>>> volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. >>>>> Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the >>>>> basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even >>>>> stronger. >>>>> >>>>> In solidarity, >>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 16:28:58 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:28:58 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> Message-ID: You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 16:28:58 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:28:58 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> Message-ID: You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 13 21:46:33 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 05:46:33 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> Message-ID: <57262bce-eea4-1dd7-90b0-fcf7efd51237@pigs.ag> A lot of issues and arguments disappear when one can deal in first principles. It is a problem in America that there are folks who believe that 2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2.   One can write about them in National Geographic and they might be really good at something not requiring good math. Nazis are bad because they built Volkswagens, limited access high speed roadways, and rockets. Fascists are bad because Pareto, Amaroso, and Gini were evil Italian economists and mathematicians to boot. White supremacists are bad because it is obvious that non-whites are better at many things not just sports. If Nazis are bad because of X and Fascists are bad because of Y and White supremacists are bad because of Z, then one should talk about X, Y, and Z not Nazis, Fascists, etc., if one is really interested in discouraging what is bad and promoting what is good. First principles is not bipartisan, it is non-partisan because it transcends partisanism. I know, I know... "first principles" is offensive to those who don't believe in first principles. Karen Aram wrote: >>> You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former >>> Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our >>> problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, >>> and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the >>> illusion of "we are better than that.” >> >> Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t >> legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and >> inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we >> will not have any change in these conditions. > >> Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate >> or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, >> given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. >> >> It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is >> now referred to as the “ left.” > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > > wrote: >> >> I am not very impressed with the Democrats.  They dont believe in the >> Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. >> They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of >> money and human lives it represents. >> >> I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than >> is the KKK. >> I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an >> impact. >> >> The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. >> If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what >> the KKK is doing. >> >> White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and >> it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to >> not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. >> >> I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the >> Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about >> Nazis in America.  Not many people are going to buy into the notion >> that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly >> understood. >> It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening >> America? >> >> I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. >> >> >> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> Carl >>> >>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks >>> after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. >>> Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. >>> >>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements >>> by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After >>> four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American >>> people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said >>> at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” >>> that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and >>> all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it >>> was no longer an issue. >>> >>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. >>> >>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people >>> giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW >>> Bush, people just gave up. >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36,bjornsona at ameritech.net >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the >>>> draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd >>>> largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & >>>> North Ave. yesterday. Apparently,  #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in >>>> London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with >>>> a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their >>>> Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when >>>> shopping. >>>> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. >>>> >>>> /Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone/ >>>> >>>> ------ Original message------ >>>> *From:*C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >>>> *Date:*Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >>>> *To:*Karen Aram; >>>> *Cc:*peace;Peace Discuss; >>>> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in >>>> DC Yesterday >>>> >>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the >>>> revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers >>>> were no longer reliable. >>>> >>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as >>>> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a >>>> result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >>>> >>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of >>>> the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He >>>> effectively resigned. >>>> >>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret >>>> plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his >>>> Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >>>> >>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars >>>> in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it >>>> probably follow a similar pattern. >>>> >>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ >>>> disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a >>>> Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war >>>> provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. >>>> >>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement >>>> had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, >>>> “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any >>>> burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to >>>> assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >>>> >>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to >>>>>> building a movement. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization >>>>>> in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most >>>>>> Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not >>>>>> killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you >>>>>> want but the fact is: >>>>> >>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of >>>>>> Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the >>>>>> Democrats. >>>>> >>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years >>>>>> is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>>>> >>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I >>>>>> was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever >>>>>> protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is >>>>>> precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was >>>>>> extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>>>> >>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the >>>>>> streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>>>> >>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted >>>>>> by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the >>>>>> cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to >>>>>> educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others >>>>>> on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits >>>>>> us, isn’t getting us anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By >>>>>>> 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park >>>>>>> chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many >>>>>>> communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and >>>>>>> old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought >>>>>>> they could come and rally in front of the White House, because >>>>>>> they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that >>>>>>> residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police >>>>>>> spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security >>>>>>> escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on >>>>>>> the metro and provided police vans to take them from the >>>>>>> Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the >>>>>>> coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a >>>>>>> huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands >>>>>>> of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this >>>>>>> success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most >>>>>>> importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making >>>>>>> this new movement even stronger. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In solidarity, >>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 13 21:46:33 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 05:46:33 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> Message-ID: <57262bce-eea4-1dd7-90b0-fcf7efd51237@pigs.ag> A lot of issues and arguments disappear when one can deal in first principles. It is a problem in America that there are folks who believe that 2 + 2 = 3 for small values of 2.   One can write about them in National Geographic and they might be really good at something not requiring good math. Nazis are bad because they built Volkswagens, limited access high speed roadways, and rockets. Fascists are bad because Pareto, Amaroso, and Gini were evil Italian economists and mathematicians to boot. White supremacists are bad because it is obvious that non-whites are better at many things not just sports. If Nazis are bad because of X and Fascists are bad because of Y and White supremacists are bad because of Z, then one should talk about X, Y, and Z not Nazis, Fascists, etc., if one is really interested in discouraging what is bad and promoting what is good. First principles is not bipartisan, it is non-partisan because it transcends partisanism. I know, I know... "first principles" is offensive to those who don't believe in first principles. Karen Aram wrote: >>> You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former >>> Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our >>> problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, >>> and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the >>> illusion of "we are better than that.” >> >> Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t >> legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and >> inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we >> will not have any change in these conditions. > >> Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate >> or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, >> given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. >> >> It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is >> now referred to as the “ left.” > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > > wrote: >> >> I am not very impressed with the Democrats.  They dont believe in the >> Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. >> They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of >> money and human lives it represents. >> >> I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than >> is the KKK. >> I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an >> impact. >> >> The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. >> If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what >> the KKK is doing. >> >> White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and >> it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to >> not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. >> >> I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the >> Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about >> Nazis in America.  Not many people are going to buy into the notion >> that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly >> understood. >> It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening >> America? >> >> I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. >> >> >> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> Carl >>> >>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks >>> after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. >>> Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. >>> >>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements >>> by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After >>> four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American >>> people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said >>> at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” >>> that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and >>> all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it >>> was no longer an issue. >>> >>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. >>> >>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people >>> giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW >>> Bush, people just gave up. >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36,bjornsona at ameritech.net >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the >>>> draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd >>>> largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & >>>> North Ave. yesterday. Apparently,  #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in >>>> London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with >>>> a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their >>>> Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when >>>> shopping. >>>> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. >>>> >>>> /Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone/ >>>> >>>> ------ Original message------ >>>> *From:*C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >>>> *Date:*Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >>>> *To:*Karen Aram; >>>> *Cc:*peace;Peace Discuss; >>>> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in >>>> DC Yesterday >>>> >>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the >>>> revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers >>>> were no longer reliable. >>>> >>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as >>>> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a >>>> result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >>>> >>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of >>>> the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He >>>> effectively resigned. >>>> >>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret >>>> plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his >>>> Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >>>> >>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars >>>> in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it >>>> probably follow a similar pattern. >>>> >>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ >>>> disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a >>>> Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war >>>> provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. >>>> >>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement >>>> had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, >>>> “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any >>>> burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to >>>> assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >>>> >>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to >>>>>> building a movement. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization >>>>>> in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most >>>>>> Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not >>>>>> killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you >>>>>> want but the fact is: >>>>> >>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of >>>>>> Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the >>>>>> Democrats. >>>>> >>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years >>>>>> is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>>>> >>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I >>>>>> was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever >>>>>> protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is >>>>>> precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was >>>>>> extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>>>> >>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the >>>>>> streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>>>> >>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted >>>>>> by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the >>>>>> cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to >>>>>> educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others >>>>>> on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits >>>>>> us, isn’t getting us anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By >>>>>>> 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park >>>>>>> chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many >>>>>>> communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and >>>>>>> old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought >>>>>>> they could come and rally in front of the White House, because >>>>>>> they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that >>>>>>> residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police >>>>>>> spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security >>>>>>> escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on >>>>>>> the metro and provided police vans to take them from the >>>>>>> Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the >>>>>>> coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a >>>>>>> huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands >>>>>>> of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this >>>>>>> success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most >>>>>>> importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making >>>>>>> this new movement even stronger. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In solidarity, >>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Mon Aug 13 22:06:26 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 22:06:26 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag>, Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson Cc: peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Mon Aug 13 22:06:26 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 22:06:26 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag>, Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson Cc: peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Mon Aug 13 22:21:07 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:21:07 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Opposing the Alt Right peacefully In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00af01d43353$eeedc8d0$ccc95a70$@comcast.net> Thanks for sharing this video Karen. Well done. David Johnson -----Original Message----- From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Karen Aram via Peace Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 4:09 PM To: peace Subject: [Peace] Opposing the Alt Right peacefully https://www.facebook.com/AnswerCoalition/videos/1696563363795000/UzpfSTI5MDgzMzA4NzcwMTM3NTpWSzoxNjk2NTYzMzYzNzk1MDAw/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 22:28:06 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Opposing the Alt Right peacefully In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forget about the ‘AltRight.’ The AltRight is not killing people around the world. Our government is. We should be opposing the Congress, the major parties, the Pentagon, the State Department, the ‘intelligence community’ et al. - the war party. At worst, the AltRight is a stick to beat Trump with, so that he resumes Obama’s neocon and neolib policies. (“Did you see what Putin’s puppet said about Charlottesville?!”) —CGE “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” —Pynchon > On Aug 13, 2018, at 4:09 PM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > https://www.facebook.com/AnswerCoalition/videos/1696563363795000/UzpfSTI5MDgzMzA4NzcwMTM3NTpWSzoxNjk2NTYzMzYzNzk1MDAw/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 22:48:53 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:48:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Good books and bad beer - August 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From my youth, I remember the Blatz jingle exactly (when I’ve forgotten the pages and pages of Shakespeare I once knew - "Now my charms are all overthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own, / Which is most faint … / As you from crimes would pardon'd be, / Let your indulgence set me free.”) Blatz sponsored my local heroes, the Washington Senators (the American League baseball team, not the international criminals) when I was a lad. "Where have you gone, Yo-Yo Davalillo? / Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you…” (in your dreams) . “...the jingle ... is indelibly burned there in my memory” - but without "Marcia Yockey with her horse and scuba gear doing the weather map with a ink brush.” She didn’t surface in DC. —CGE PS - I have to look, but I think I have some elderly Blatz… ("Blatz beer is currently produced by the Miller Brewing Company of Milwaukee, under contract for Pabst Brewing Company.” Wikipedia) > On Aug 13, 2018, at 9:52 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > > I really see some value in being there for the libations as well as the perusal and > absconding with (liberation of) the books. > > One could say there isnt any really bad beer, > but I do recall some cheap brands called Buckhorn (???) and > Blatz (made in Evansville IN) that were not the highest > expression of the brewers art. At least I didnt like Blatz > and we would try to find a extra quarter or two so we could have > Miller instead of Stroh's. > > Blatz beer sponsored the channel 7 weather with Marcia Yockey > who was a real icon in Evansville and across southern Indiana and Illinois. > I spent many evenings playing on the floor at my grandfathers house in the 60's when the > news and weather from channel 7 was on. She later went back to UHF channel 14 in 1971 > where she stayed for another nearly 20 years. > Marcia Yockey was a cool and eccentric character before it was cool to be eccentric. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:196607MarciaYockeyS.jpg > > I'm from Milwaukee and I ought to know > It's draft brewed Blatz beer wherever you go > Smoother. fresher, less filling, it's clear > Blatz is Milwaukee's finest beer. > (Maybe, but in Evansville it was pretty bad.) > > But the jingle was great and is indelibly burned there > in my memory along with Marcia Yockey with her horse > and scuba gear doing the weather map with a ink brush. > > > C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: >> GOOD BOOKS AND BAD BEER - AUGUST 25 >> >> Dear friends, >> >> After 32 years at 5 Litchfield Lane in Champaign, my bride and I are moving to more manageable quarters. >> >> In pursuit of felicity, I have in those years acquired a number of books and a fair number of bottles of bad beer. >> >> Will you come help relieve me of these burdens on Saturday August 25, from 5pm to 8? >> >> We’ll have a first floor and a basement of books for the taking and a dining room of miscellaneous beer for the drinking. The books are generally better than the the beers, but that’s probably true in life - in spite of Housman’s despairing asseveration, “...malt does more than Milton can / To justify God’s ways to man.” >> >> What Ben Franklin is supposed to have said was probably closer to the truth: “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” (A Francophile, he was probably actually speaking of wine.) >> >> You’re welcome to take the books (and the beer) you like. It would please me if friends enjoyed books I’ve enjoyed. (That’s not so possible with the beer, but you’re welcome to that too.) Bring a bag to carry the books, and a thirst to accommodate the beer. >> >> Leigh and I look forward to seeing you 5-8pm on the 25th. >> >> Regards, Carl >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 22:53:54 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 22:53:54 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism. As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious. On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson Cc: peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 22:53:54 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 22:53:54 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism. As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious. On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM To: E. Wayne Johnson Cc: peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions. Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.” On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson > wrote: I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression. They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents. I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact. The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what the KKK is doing. White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America? I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: Carl The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM To: Karen Aram; Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook > wrote: But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: [ANSWER Coalition] [15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] Dear Karen, Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. In solidarity, All of us at ANSWER Coalition http://www.answercoalition.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mickalideh at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 23:11:52 2018 From: mickalideh at gmail.com (Harry Mickalide) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:11:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Well said Karen! On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective > than acting negatively towards others activism. > > As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before > the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given > up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against > fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you > weren’t set on being contentious. > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: > > But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, > "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? > > Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and > Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give > the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") > > --CGE > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on > behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] > *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM > *To:* E. Wayne Johnson > *Cc:* peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss > > *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC > Yesterday > > You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I > now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, > poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions > related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better > than that.” > > > Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t > legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and > inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will > not have any change in these conditions. > > > Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or > rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they > are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. > > It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now > referred to as the “ left.” > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > > I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill > of Rights or freedom of expression. > They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money > and human lives it represents. > > I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is > the KKK. > I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an > impact. > > The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. > If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what > the KKK is doing. > > White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and > it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to > not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. > > I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the > Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about > Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion > that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. > It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening > America? > > I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. > > > Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Carl > > The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the > largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to > that in his memoirs. > > As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the > Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of > Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid > as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, > many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at > least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, > provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. > > When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. > > Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. > It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave > up. > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: > > Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or > their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole > Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. > Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is > what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so > that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and > pick them up when shopping. > It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. > > *Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone* > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > *Date: *Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM > *To: *Karen Aram; > *Cc: *peace;Peace Discuss; > *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC > Yesterday > > The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of > the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer > reliable. > > By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as > “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of > the impact of student protest on general consciousness. > > US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war > were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. > > Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for > ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State > announced, “Peace is at hand.” > > Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE > Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a > similar pattern. > > And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous > cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and > not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this > rally did. > > The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to > be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every > nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any > hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the > success of liberty”! > > Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a > movement. > > That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the > US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t > care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can > argue that point all you want but the fact is: > > > 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, > was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. > > > 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about > Trump, and organized by the Democrats. > > > 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was > there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest > during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon > eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the > numbers. > > > 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets > enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. > > > 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the > current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, > including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and > coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking > about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: > > But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” > > It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > [image: ANSWER Coalition] > > > [image: 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] > > Dear Karen, > > Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there > were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, > No Fascist USA”. > > It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: > Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together > to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front > of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who > occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and > police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort > for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and > provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to > Virginia. > > We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, > but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone > who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or > donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. > Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this > new movement even stronger. > > In solidarity, > All of us at ANSWER Coalition > http://www.answercoalition.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mickalideh at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 23:11:52 2018 From: mickalideh at gmail.com (Harry Mickalide) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:11:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Well said Karen! On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective > than acting negatively towards others activism. > > As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before > the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given > up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against > fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you > weren’t set on being contentious. > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: > > But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, > "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? > > Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and > Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give > the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") > > --CGE > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on > behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] > *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM > *To:* E. Wayne Johnson > *Cc:* peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss > > *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC > Yesterday > > You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I > now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, > poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions > related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better > than that.” > > > Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t > legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and > inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will > not have any change in these conditions. > > > Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or > rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they > are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. > > It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now > referred to as the “ left.” > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: > > I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill > of Rights or freedom of expression. > They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money > and human lives it represents. > > I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is > the KKK. > I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an > impact. > > The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK. > If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what > the KKK is doing. > > White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and > it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to > not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations. > > I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the > Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about > Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion > that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood. > It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening > America? > > I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass. > > > Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Carl > > The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the > largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to > that in his memoirs. > > As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the > Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of > Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid > as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, > many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at > least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, > provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. > > When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. > > Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. > It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave > up. > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote: > > Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or > their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole > Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. > Apparently, #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is > what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so > that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and > pick them up when shopping. > It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. > > *Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone* > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > *Date: *Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM > *To: *Karen Aram; > *Cc: *peace;Peace Discuss; > *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC > Yesterday > > The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of > the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer > reliable. > > By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as > “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of > the impact of student protest on general consciousness. > > US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war > were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. > > Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for > ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State > announced, “Peace is at hand.” > > Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE > Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a > similar pattern. > > And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous > cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and > not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this > rally did. > > The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to > be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every > nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any > hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the > success of liberty”! > > Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a > movement. > > That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the > US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t > care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can > argue that point all you want but the fact is: > > > 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, > was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. > > > 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about > Trump, and organized by the Democrats. > > > 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was > there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest > during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon > eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the > numbers. > > > 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets > enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. > > > 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the > current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, > including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and > coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking > about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: > > But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” > > It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. > > > > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > [image: ANSWER Coalition] > > > [image: 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK] > > Dear Karen, > > Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there > were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, > No Fascist USA”. > > It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: > Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together > to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front > of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who > occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and > police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort > for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and > provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to > Virginia. > > We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, > but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone > who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or > donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. > Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this > new movement even stronger. > > In solidarity, > All of us at ANSWER Coalition > http://www.answercoalition.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Mon Aug 13 23:30:46 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 23:30:46 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: Announcing the Dymaxion Artifact Marketplace: Bring Bucky Home In-Reply-To: <364716a0bf033573e1568a640.4e75770d7c.20180813231436.d8b0711575.26fd2e8b@mail40.atl31.mcdlv.net> References: <364716a0bf033573e1568a640.4e75770d7c.20180813231436.d8b0711575.26fd2e8b@mail40.atl31.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2084A9@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> We use Fuller's 'Dymaxion Map' on the set for AWARE ON THE AIR. "The Dymaxion Map is the only flat map of the entire surface of the Earth which reveals our planet as one island in one ocean, without any visually obvious distortion of the relative shapes and sizes of the land areas, and without splitting any continents." I was privileged to meet (& work for) Fuller when I was a grad student. His observations were important then and are now. --CGE ________________________________ From: Buckminster Fuller Institute [contact=bfi.org at mail40.atl31.mcdlv.net] on behalf of Buckminster Fuller Institute [contact at bfi.org] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2018 6:15 PM To: Estabrook, Carl G Subject: Announcing the Dymaxion Artifact Marketplace: Bring Bucky Home Announcing the Dymaxion Artifact Marketplace: Bring Bucky Home View this email in your browser [https://gallery.mailchimp.com/364716a0bf033573e1568a640/images/7deb2869-4122-4e61-be67-cd3de5d57224.jpg] [https://gallery.mailchimp.com/364716a0bf033573e1568a640/images/4c1cf509-ee6b-484a-b7cf-cf61597adf02.jpg] Greetings Earthians, One of the most popular requests we get at BFI is to provide access to tools and artifacts from Fuller’s life and work. In response to that, we are thrilled to announce the launch of the Dymaxion Artifact Marketplace. This is your new source for official Bucky manifestations and inspirations. Welcome! The very first item featured is a new version of the Dymaxion Map in canvas, framed canvas, fabric posters and art paper. The Dymaxion Map is the only flat map of the entire surface of the Earth which reveals our planet as one island in one ocean, without any visually obvious distortion of the relative shapes and sizes of the land areas, and without splitting any continents. Fuller’s view was that, given a way to visualize the whole planet with greater accuracy, we humans would be better equipped to address challenges as we face our common future aboard Spaceship Earth. This special reproduction of the Dymaxion Map is printed and sized for a variety of spaces, rooms and settings. We would love to feature this map on your walls (and domes!), so please feel free to send or post photos of this new item back to us, on Facebook, Twitter or at contact at BFI.org. As always, thank you for your care and support, of your fellow astronauts and our precious Spaceship Earth. If you are seeking fresh opportunities to build deeper, mission-aligned community with your fellow Spaceship Earth astronauts, please consider becoming a member to join us for special events and an upcoming webinar series. Members receive a 20% discount in the BFI store. Omnidirectionally yours, Amanda Joy Ravenhill & the BFI team [https://cdn-images.mailchimp.com/icons/social-block-v2/color-twitter-48.png] [https://cdn-images.mailchimp.com/icons/social-block-v2/color-facebook-48.png] [https://cdn-images.mailchimp.com/icons/social-block-v2/color-link-48.png] This email was sent to << Test Email Address >> why did I get this? unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences Buckminster Fuller Institute · 2261 Market Street #469 · San Francisco, Ca 94114 · USA This email was sent to galliher at illinois.edu why did I get this? unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences Buckminster Fuller Institute · 2261 Market Street · #469 · San Francisco, Ca 94114 · USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 23:40:46 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:40:46 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Forget about the ‘AltRight.’ The AltRight is not killing people around the world. Our government is. We should be opposing the Congress, the major parties, the Pentagon, the State Department, the ‘intelligence community’ et al. - the war party. At worst, the AltRight is a stick to beat Trump with, so that he resumes Obama’s neocon and neolib policies. (“Did you see what Putin’s puppet said about Charlottesville?!”) —CGE “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” —Pynchon > On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Harry Mickalide via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Well said Karen! > > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism. > > As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious. > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G wrote: >> >> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? >> >> Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") >> >> --CGE >> >> >>> >>> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>> Carl >>>> >>>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. >>>> >>>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. >>>> >>>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. >>>> >>>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------ Original message------ >>>>> From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >>>>> To: Karen Aram; >>>>> Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; >>>>> Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday >>>>> >>>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. >>>>> >>>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. >>>>> >>>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >>>>> >>>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. >>>>> >>>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. >>>>> >>>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >>>>> >>>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: >>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. >>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>>>>> >>>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>>>>> >>>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>>>>> >>>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In solidarity, >>>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>> >>>>>> From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 13 23:50:41 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 23:50:41 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday In-Reply-To: References: <7sv23eb8jkien2jdli57827g.1534166983111@email.lge.com> <603480fc-26d5-c87d-2935-a591ba3b74de@pigs.ag> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB20844C@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Carl, yes they are because many of them, the leaders, as well as those likely set up by the CIA, are supported by the neocons in government, who are supported by the corporate ruling elites whatever Party is in power. > On Aug 13, 2018, at 16:40, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Forget about the ‘AltRight.’ The AltRight is not killing people around the world. > > Our government is. We should be opposing the Congress, the major parties, the Pentagon, the State Department, the ‘intelligence community’ et al. - the war party. > > At worst, the AltRight is a stick to beat Trump with, so that he resumes Obama’s neocon and neolib policies. (“Did you see what Putin’s puppet said about Charlottesville?!”) > > —CGE > > > “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” —Pynchon > > > >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Harry Mickalide via Peace-discuss wrote: >> >> Well said Karen! >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >> Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism. >> >> As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious. >> >>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G wrote: >>> >>> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)? >>> >>> Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...") >>> >>> --CGE >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>>> Carl >>>>> >>>>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. >>>>> >>>>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. >>>>> >>>>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. >>>>> >>>>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ Original message------ >>>>>> From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM >>>>>> To: Karen Aram; >>>>>> Cc: peace;Peace Discuss; >>>>>> Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday >>>>>> >>>>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable. >>>>>> >>>>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. >>>>>> >>>>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned. >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern. >>>>>> >>>>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did. >>>>>> >>>>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! >>>>>> >>>>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!” >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Karen, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In solidarity, >>>>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition >>>>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/ >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 23:54:48 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 18:54:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The News-Gazette: Letter to the Editor Submission (for August) References: <20180807130207.F09B23E999@prd-r-cms6-w1.ngmedia.io> Message-ID: > Ethical and political convictions unite the anti-war and anti-abortion movements. Both are opposed to the ending of human lives - in the womb or in foreign countries. > > The US invaded Iraq and killed a million people; in America, abortion is the leading cause of death - more than cancer, heart disease, suicide or homicide - and disproportionally affects the poor. > > Those in the anti-war movement during the Bush/Obama/Trump administrations say, “My political views: I'm basically against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." > > If we’re against the US government’s ending human lives in Afghanistan, we should also be against social policies that encourage poor people to end their children’s lives so that they won’t cost the government money. > > Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg pointed out that Roe v. Wade was decided for economic and eugenic reasons: “Frankly,” she said, “I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” > > Just as it’s not enough to forbid the killing of poor people in the Mideast for the profits of the US one-percent, so it’s not enough to forbid the killing of the children of the poor to protect their profits. Reparations are required for US wars, and at home, the establishment of medical care for all - and child supports, housing, and education for all - in place of society-induced abortions. > > —C. G. Estabrook From divisek at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 02:03:04 2018 From: divisek at yahoo.com (Dianna Visek) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 02:03:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Ted Rall: Corporate Democrats Still Don't Have a Clue How to Get Progressives to Vote for Them References: <2052688198.7396876.1534212184104.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2052688198.7396876.1534212184104@mail.yahoo.com> Corporate Democrats Still Don't Have a Clue How to Get Progressives to Vote for Them | | | | Corporate Democrats Still Don't Have a Clue How to Get Progressives to V... Rasmussen Reports When 28-year-old Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez upset a 10-term incumbent congressman in New York -- in a set of Democ... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 02:04:01 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 21:04:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The myth of a new Nazism Message-ID: <47AB0F71-B620-4108-A7DD-96A3056E7BD2@gmail.com> http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/the-myth-of-a-new-nazism/21679#.W3I3ipNKiSO [Corey Robin] This is a really excellent interview with Udi Greenberg, who's a European historian and specialist on Weimar, on why the analogy to fascism and Nazism is both historically inaccurate *and* politically unhelpful, if not dangerous. Among the historical differences he cites between the lead-up to the Nazis and today are the non-contingent centrality of anticommunism and class conflict to fascist politics, the glorification of war as an end unto itself (not just rhetorically but in practice; parenthetically, this was one of the reasons why I always found the fascist analogy much more persuasive, and why I pursued it, in the context of the neocons in the Bush regime, who really did celebrate warfare as an end unto itself), and the pervasiveness of mass political violence (forget the fascist analogy; there is far less mass violence in the streets today in the US than there was in the 1960s). That's part of the historical argument, which many of us have been pressing since this analogy first got invoked. The political argument—about how fascist analogies have worked among intellectuals throughout the 20th century, which comes from Daniel Bessner's new book as well as Udi's—is even more interesting, but you should read the interview. ### From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 02:23:32 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 21:23:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The myth of a new Nazism In-Reply-To: <47AB0F71-B620-4108-A7DD-96A3056E7BD2@gmail.com> References: <47AB0F71-B620-4108-A7DD-96A3056E7BD2@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://nostalgiatrap.libsyn.com/nostalgia-trap-episode-85-daniel-bessner Daniel Bessner, Greenberg's co-author in the Weimar Analogy, has also put forward an analysis of the Rand Corporation and the rise of the post WW II defense intellectuals, including emigrees like Hans Speyer. I found this interview fascinating. DG On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:04 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/the-myth-of-a-new-nazism/21679#.W3I3ipNKiSO > > [Corey Robin] This is a really excellent interview with Udi Greenberg, > who's a European historian and specialist on Weimar, on why the analogy to > fascism and Nazism is both historically inaccurate *and* politically > unhelpful, if not dangerous. Among the historical differences he cites > between the lead-up to the Nazis and today are the non-contingent > centrality of anticommunism and class conflict to fascist politics, the > glorification of war as an end unto itself (not just rhetorically but in > practice; parenthetically, this was one of the reasons why I always found > the fascist analogy much more persuasive, and why I pursued it, in the > context of the neocons in the Bush regime, who really did celebrate warfare > as an end unto itself), and the pervasiveness of mass political violence > (forget the fascist analogy; there is far less mass violence in the streets > today in the US than there was in the 1960s). That's part of the historical > argument, which many of us have been pressing since this analogy first got > invoked. The political argument—about how fascist analogies have worked > among intellectuals throughout the 20th century, which comes from Daniel > Bessner's new book as well as Udi's—is even more interesting, but you > should read the interview. > > ### > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 16:03:00 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 11:03:00 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The problem is not the "fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States" but US world-wide war-making and provocations - which the Obama administration excelled at; Clinton would have done the same. The neocons et al. are desperately afraid that the Trump administration will depart from this bellicosity - which serves not race but class. This much is true: "For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016" - most notably the demonstration that it was Obama-Clinton war-making that elected Trump; see "Clinton Lost Because PA, WI, and MI Have High Casualty Rates and Saw Her as Pro-war..." —CGE > On Aug 14, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed > By Patrick Martin > 14 August 2018 > The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. > The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. > At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. > And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. > Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. > Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. > It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” > In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. > It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. > The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. > Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. > A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. > For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. > The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). > It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. > > WSWS.ORG > The author also recommends: > Facebook censors the left > [3 August 2018] > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 16:23:04 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 11:23:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > - Print > > - Leaflet > > - Feedback > > - Share » > > What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin > 14 August 2018 > > The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the > real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United > States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular > support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the > “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. > > The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation > rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own > private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other > passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, > were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, > escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and > protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist > protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After > the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police > or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. > > At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering > the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of > the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, > the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than > the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. > > And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the > pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided > virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a > seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually > uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the > neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their > actual support among the American people. > > Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the > anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, > Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally > in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While > Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot > involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending > Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a > debacle. > > Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to > come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing > counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in > the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly > appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the > Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively > endorsed him. > > It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to > “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus > grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated > by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook > shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed > signs of “inauthentic activity.” > > In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for > the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further > to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the > Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of > the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. > > It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” > since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted > almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. > > The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white > supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real > danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their > ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces > by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through > police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the > local cops. > > Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the > Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is > significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its > all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. > > A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by > sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as > having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white > workers as being incorrigibly racist. > > For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have > peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the > right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this > narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the > working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. > > The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election > proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting > patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class > ”). > > It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack > Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie > Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the > right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the > working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers > and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic > nationalism and populist demagogy. > > WSWS.ORG > > *The author also recommends:* > > Facebook censors the left > [3 August 2018] > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Aug 14 16:42:38 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:42:38 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, you and Carl are not listening. The article below is written by someone who has been telling the world about Yemen and Gaza every damn day, along with our other wars, not just Yemen and Gaza, but including them. The ANSWER group has been organizing for many years against the wars in Yemen and Gaza, as well as Syria, Iran Russia and China. This is not a group of Democrats blind to everything but fascism, and racism. If you want to rail against them or those in our community fine do so. But wake up to the reality that sitting in our own little corner of the world bemoaning the American people for not giving a damn sure as hell hasn’t gotten us anywhere in over 15 years. There were some anti-fa people there but they weren’t the main group. It’s time to think strategically. These are groups who came together to unite against fascism, proving what a small bunch of buffoons the USG supported alt right, really are, that they are not a threat as some would like us to believe, that it is a distraction. The organizers of ANSWER are Brian Becker of “Loud and Clear” Gloria La Riva, Presidential candidate, for many years, Eugene Puryear, etc. they have been focused on “war” throughout, plus other issues of concern that you and Carl choose to ignore, because they aren’t as important. What you fail to recognize is that you have to join others in their causes and concerns if you wish to unite people against our government and capitalism. Not sit on your academic pedestals talking all the time. In the five years I was with AWARE we failed to recruite new members, other than one, losing more than that. Think about it. Even the Greens lost a chance to gain some environmentally concerned individuals because you didn’t show up, not wanting to “work with Democrats.” Where has that gotten AWARE? After 15 years, maybe you need to be a little more positive and stop just bashing everyone who doesn’t sit in awe of your intellectual discussions, that haven’t changed anything, only further deterioration. On Aug 14, 2018, at 09:23, David Green > wrote: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin 14 August 2018 The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. WSWS.ORG The author also recommends: Facebook censors the left [3 August 2018] _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Tue Aug 14 17:24:21 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:24:21 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> An excellent response, Karen. Thanks. It seems that Carl, especially, would have us all believe that Trump is a peace-nik, and that his behavior otherwise is only due to the machinations of his cohorts, the Dems, and the so-called "deep state”. "Behavior otherwise" should include his Iran policies, his at best ambiguous behavior towards N Korea, his unvarnished support of Israel, and his administration's support of Ukraine relative to Russia by beefing up NATO forces near Russia’s borders. Have I left out mention of China? And the exorbitant military, nuclear and projected space budgets!? Of course, we expect inconsistencies from a mentally deficient Trump. One cannot truly fathom just where his policies are leading, but they seem frighteningly dangerous, not only with respect to war and peace, but to climate change policies as well. And then there is his domestic agenda in education, the environment, the justice departments, … —mkb On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:23 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin 14 August 2018 The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. WSWS.ORG The author also recommends: Facebook censors the left [3 August 2018] _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 17:42:59 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 12:42:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Karen, I'm not casting aspersions on ANSWER. I'm asking whether those who showed up at the rally in questions would show up at a rally regarding Yemen or Gaza. Yes, it's time to think strategically; that is: what is the goal? what are the tactics to achieve that goal? Is the anti-fascist response a tactic to achieve the goal of ending our involvement in Yemen and Gaza? Is it even opposing Trump's facilitation of genocide in Yemen and Gaza? I think these are pretty obvious questions. But it's not at all clear that those who attend such a rally are challenging either capitalism or the war machine. At least not to me. So tell me what I don't understand about these people. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:42 AM Karen Aram wrote: > David, you and Carl are not listening. The article below is written by > someone who has been telling the world about Yemen and Gaza every damn day, > along with our other wars, not just Yemen and Gaza, but including them. > > The ANSWER group has been organizing for many years against the wars in > Yemen and Gaza, as well as Syria, Iran Russia and China. This is not a > group of Democrats blind to everything but fascism, and racism. If you want > to rail against them or those in our community fine do so. But wake up to > the reality that sitting in our own little corner of the world bemoaning > the American people for not giving a damn sure as hell hasn’t gotten us > anywhere in over 15 years. > > There were some anti-fa people there but they weren’t the main group. > > It’s time to think strategically. These are groups who came together to > unite against fascism, proving what a small bunch of buffoons the USG > supported alt right, really are, that they are not a threat as some would > like us to believe, that it is a distraction. > > The organizers of ANSWER are Brian Becker of “Loud and Clear” Gloria La > Riva, Presidential candidate, for many years, Eugene Puryear, etc. they > have been focused on “war” throughout, plus other issues of concern that > you and Carl choose to ignore, because they aren’t as important. What you > fail to recognize is that you have to join others in their causes and > concerns if you wish to unite people against our government and capitalism. > Not sit on your academic pedestals talking all the time. In the five years > I was with AWARE we failed to recruite new members, other than one, losing > more than that. Think about it. Even the Greens lost a chance to gain some > environmentally concerned individuals because you didn’t show up, not > wanting to “work with Democrats.” Where has that gotten AWARE? > > After 15 years, maybe you need to be a little more positive and stop just > bashing everyone who doesn’t sit in awe of your intellectual discussions, > that haven’t changed anything, only further deterioration. > > On Aug 14, 2018, at 09:23, David Green wrote: > > So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you > can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? > > That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, > including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. > > DG > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> >> >> - Print >> >> - Leaflet >> >> - Feedback >> >> - Share » >> >> What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin >> 14 August 2018 >> >> The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the >> real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United >> States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular >> support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the >> “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. >> >> The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation >> rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own >> private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other >> passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, >> were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, >> escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and >> protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist >> protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After >> the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police >> or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. >> >> At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists >> covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the >> organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the >> media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be >> greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. >> >> And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by >> the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC >> provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted >> Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually >> uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the >> neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their >> actual support among the American people. >> >> Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the >> anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, >> Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally >> in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While >> Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot >> involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending >> Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a >> debacle. >> >> Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not >> to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing >> counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in >> the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly >> appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the >> Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively >> endorsed him. >> >> It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to >> “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus >> grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated >> by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook >> shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed >> signs of “inauthentic activity.” >> >> In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for >> the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further >> to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the >> Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of >> the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. >> >> It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” >> since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted >> almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. >> >> The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white >> supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real >> danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their >> ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces >> by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through >> police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the >> local cops. >> >> Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the >> Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is >> significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its >> all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. >> >> A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by >> sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as >> having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white >> workers as being incorrigibly racist. >> >> For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have >> peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the >> right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this >> narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the >> working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. >> >> The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election >> proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting >> patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class >> ”). >> >> It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for >> Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by >> Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was >> only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal >> to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black >> workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic >> nationalism and populist demagogy. >> >> WSWS.ORG >> >> *The author also recommends:* >> >> Facebook censors the left >> [3 August 2018] >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 19:58:52 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 14:58:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> References: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <18498805-AAE5-4AF6-A9BD-85ACA844EB9A@gmail.com> Mort— I’m not very interested in what ANSWER (or even Trump) thinks. I am interested in opposing US government war-making - and working to some extent with others who want do the same. It's been rightly said that in the absence of an accurate analysis, the best will in the world can do the right thing only by accident. Therefore it’s worthwhile to figure out why the US has killed more than 20 million people in more than 37 nations since WWII - and continues to do so today. Evil as they are, it’s not because of the "fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States” but rather the profits of the US ruling class. But the situation is not perspicuous, not only because of its inherent difficulties but because that ruling class has over the last century produced the most efficient and effective propaganda system in history - outdoing all previous tyrannies - to protect itself against the only enemy it really fears, the US populace. Those of us who have the leisure to read and write, think and talk, about these issues would seem to have a responsibility to give an accurate account of the situation. I was surprised to read recently that Rosa Luxemburg (murdered by a socialist government a century ago) said, “...it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” That it seems to me should be the aim of the contemporary anti-war movement in this country, as well. Regards, Carl > On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss wrote: > > An excellent response, Karen. Thanks. > > It seems that Carl, especially, would have us all believe that Trump is a peace-nik, and that his behavior otherwise is only due to the machinations of his cohorts, the Dems, and the so-called "deep state”. > > "Behavior otherwise" should include his Iran policies, his at best ambiguous behavior towards N Korea, his unvarnished support of Israel, and his administration's support of Ukraine relative to Russia by beefing up NATO forces near Russia’s borders. Have I left out mention of China? And the exorbitant military, nuclear and projected space budgets!? > > Of course, we expect inconsistencies from a mentally deficient Trump. One cannot truly fathom just where his policies are leading, but they seem frighteningly dangerous, not only with respect to war and peace, but to climate change policies as well. > > And then there is his domestic agenda in education, the environment, the justice departments, … > > —mkb > > >> On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:23 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> >> So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? >> >> That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. >> >> DG >> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >> >> Print >> Leaflet >> Feedback >> Share » >> >> What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed >> By Patrick Martin >> 14 August 2018 >> The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. >> The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. >> At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. >> And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. >> Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. >> Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. >> It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” >> In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. >> It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. >> The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. >> Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. >> A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. >> For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. >> The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class ”). >> It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. >> >> WSWS.ORG >> The author also recommends: >> Facebook censors the left >> [3 August 2018] >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Aug 14 22:27:42 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:27:42 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry if I misunderstood you David. I’m so used to Carl bashing any and all activities unrelated to war that I made an assumption. My patience is wearing thin with the continued killing and destruction taking place everywhere by my bloody government, with only a handful of people taking notice. Though not a member, merely a supporter of PSL/ANSWER, I shouldn’t speak for them. However, I will give my impression: My first reaction to this countering of “fascists, nazi’s and kkk, was not to support it, due to that which I learned of anti-fa. from the originator during an interview by Chris Hedges. I see anti-fa as provoking violence, if not them, then the USG infiltrators. This is what was done frequently in the past and elsewhere in the world, one can use Kiev for just one such example. However, when I realized the goal was to “counter with “speech only," "no provocations or violence” at least on the part of ANSWER, I had to support it. Isn’t this what we attempt to do when speaking “truth” against propaganda? Most of all, its the opportunity to meet, enlighten, and recruit people to an understanding of what the government "system” is doing. Certainly not all ten thousand people, but its a start. Isn’t that what AWARE attempts to do every month with our demonstrations? Yesterday I posted the link to the ANSWER speeches at the “Occupy Lafayette Square.” While the focus was on fascism, the goal is to corral concerned participants in order to engage in future activities. PSL/Answer Coalition more than any group out there has been speaking out, protesting against US interventions and war, nationwide. The article by Patrick Martin counters what I believe mainstream media has been spinning. Young people especially people of color need to meet like minded groups, in person. We can not rely upon social media online or UPTV and we must deal with issues that concern them. Sharing their concerns is the only way to get them to listen to us. As parents I think we’ve all learned that lesson the hard way. I ask myself what would I have done after WW1 in Berlin with the rise of Nazism. I know I would urge against violence, as counterproductive, but I would like to think I would have spoken out and taken to the streets, no matter what the cost, not sat back waiting until its too late. We may not be dealing with “fascism” in the traditional sense, but ask people of color, of limited means, living in Baltimore, St. Louis, Chicago what they are experiencing, and they will likely say fear, due to militarization and poverty. Defining fascism as to its true character is of little meaning to victims of incarceration, injustice and inequality. Just as we may have few immigrants in our community being deported, nonetheless we know there are hundreds if not thousands in detention, with children torn from their parents. How can we abide such behavior, and where does it end? I say, this is just the beginning if we don’t stop it now, and that means organizing, coordinating and resisting the USG system of capitalism, no matter who is in power. We can only do that by building bridges, not frowning on actions that don’t meet our standard of “horror." On Aug 14, 2018, at 10:42, David Green > wrote: Karen, I'm not casting aspersions on ANSWER. I'm asking whether those who showed up at the rally in questions would show up at a rally regarding Yemen or Gaza. Yes, it's time to think strategically; that is: what is the goal? what are the tactics to achieve that goal? Is the anti-fascist response a tactic to achieve the goal of ending our involvement in Yemen and Gaza? Is it even opposing Trump's facilitation of genocide in Yemen and Gaza? I think these are pretty obvious questions. But it's not at all clear that those who attend such a rally are challenging either capitalism or the war machine. At least not to me. So tell me what I don't understand about these people. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:42 AM Karen Aram > wrote: David, you and Carl are not listening. The article below is written by someone who has been telling the world about Yemen and Gaza every damn day, along with our other wars, not just Yemen and Gaza, but including them. The ANSWER group has been organizing for many years against the wars in Yemen and Gaza, as well as Syria, Iran Russia and China. This is not a group of Democrats blind to everything but fascism, and racism. If you want to rail against them or those in our community fine do so. But wake up to the reality that sitting in our own little corner of the world bemoaning the American people for not giving a damn sure as hell hasn’t gotten us anywhere in over 15 years. There were some anti-fa people there but they weren’t the main group. It’s time to think strategically. These are groups who came together to unite against fascism, proving what a small bunch of buffoons the USG supported alt right, really are, that they are not a threat as some would like us to believe, that it is a distraction. The organizers of ANSWER are Brian Becker of “Loud and Clear” Gloria La Riva, Presidential candidate, for many years, Eugene Puryear, etc. they have been focused on “war” throughout, plus other issues of concern that you and Carl choose to ignore, because they aren’t as important. What you fail to recognize is that you have to join others in their causes and concerns if you wish to unite people against our government and capitalism. Not sit on your academic pedestals talking all the time. In the five years I was with AWARE we failed to recruite new members, other than one, losing more than that. Think about it. Even the Greens lost a chance to gain some environmentally concerned individuals because you didn’t show up, not wanting to “work with Democrats.” Where has that gotten AWARE? After 15 years, maybe you need to be a little more positive and stop just bashing everyone who doesn’t sit in awe of your intellectual discussions, that haven’t changed anything, only further deterioration. On Aug 14, 2018, at 09:23, David Green > wrote: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin 14 August 2018 The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. WSWS.ORG The author also recommends: Facebook censors the left [3 August 2018] _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Aug 14 22:40:22 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 22:40:22 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: <18498805-AAE5-4AF6-A9BD-85ACA844EB9A@gmail.com> References: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> <18498805-AAE5-4AF6-A9BD-85ACA844EB9A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Carl, though you addressed Mort to this communique, I will respond to say Rosa Luxemburg did say “it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” However, Rosa didn’t stop with just “speaking truth," she acted upon it and urged others to do the same. In other words we can all talk, but unless we take to the streets using civil resistance such as demonstrations, strikes, sit downs, etc. well, here we are after fifteen years with more wars, more killings, interventions, destruction, poverty, loss of jobs, more homeless, public schools being decimated, loss of healthcare, the list goes on and on, and too many people are under the illusion “the next election” will save us. Some of us already know why our corporate owned government/ruling elites are doing what they are doing. Getting others to realize the same isn’t going to come from just social media, or Utube, which is being blocked and censored as we speak. It’s in the streets where action needs to occur, in DC, in Lafayette Park, Wall Street, and a few other places. Maybe Lockheed or Boeing. But being a purist and focusing only on the worse horror as the only issue to be addressed isn’t getting us anywhere. ”On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:58, C G Estabrook > wrote: Mort— I’m not very interested in what ANSWER (or even Trump) thinks. I am interested in opposing US government war-making - and working to some extent with others who want do the same. It's been rightly said that in the absence of an accurate analysis, the best will in the world can do the right thing only by accident. Therefore it’s worthwhile to figure out why the US has killed more than 20 million people in more than 37 nations since WWII - and continues to do so today. Evil as they are, it’s not because of the "fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States” but rather the profits of the US ruling class. But the situation is not perspicuous, not only because of its inherent difficulties but because that ruling class has over the last century produced the most efficient and effective propaganda system in history - outdoing all previous tyrannies - to protect itself against the only enemy it really fears, the US populace. Those of us who have the leisure to read and write, think and talk, about these issues would seem to have a responsibility to give an accurate account of the situation. I was surprised to read recently that Rosa Luxemburg (murdered by a socialist government a century ago) said, “...it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” That it seems to me should be the aim of the contemporary anti-war movement in this country, as well. Regards, Carl On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > wrote: An excellent response, Karen. Thanks. It seems that Carl, especially, would have us all believe that Trump is a peace-nik, and that his behavior otherwise is only due to the machinations of his cohorts, the Dems, and the so-called "deep state”. "Behavior otherwise" should include his Iran policies, his at best ambiguous behavior towards N Korea, his unvarnished support of Israel, and his administration's support of Ukraine relative to Russia by beefing up NATO forces near Russia’s borders. Have I left out mention of China? And the exorbitant military, nuclear and projected space budgets!? Of course, we expect inconsistencies from a mentally deficient Trump. One cannot truly fathom just where his policies are leading, but they seem frighteningly dangerous, not only with respect to war and peace, but to climate change policies as well. And then there is his domestic agenda in education, the environment, the justice departments, … —mkb On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:23 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin 14 August 2018 The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. WSWS.ORG The author also recommends: Facebook censors the left [3 August 2018] _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 23:57:02 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 18:57:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: References: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> <18498805-AAE5-4AF6-A9BD-85ACA844EB9A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89DEC11B-D7A4-4D10-B914-DB96BBA5F1A0@gmail.com> Are those ‘taking to the streets' like Glendower’s ‘spirits from the vasty deep’? GLENDOWER I can call spirits from the vasty deep. HOTSPUR Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? GLENDOWER Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command The devil. HOTSPUR And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, And I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! Isn’t our job to tell truth? > On Aug 14, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Karen Aram wrote: > > Carl, though you addressed Mort to this communique, I will respond to say Rosa Luxemburg did say “it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” > > However, Rosa didn’t stop with just “speaking truth," she acted upon it and urged others to do the same. In other words we can all talk, but unless we take to the streets using civil resistance such as demonstrations, strikes, sit downs, etc. well, here we are after fifteen years with more wars, more killings, interventions, destruction, poverty, loss of jobs, more homeless, public schools being decimated, loss of healthcare, the list goes on and on, and too many people are under the illusion “the next election” will save us. > > Some of us already know why our corporate owned government/ruling elites are doing what they are doing. Getting others to realize the same isn’t going to come from just social media, or Utube, which is being blocked and censored as we speak. It’s in the streets where action needs to occur, in DC, in Lafayette Park, Wall Street, and a few other places. Maybe Lockheed or Boeing. But being a purist and focusing only on the worse horror as the only issue to be addressed isn’t getting us anywhere. > > ”On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:58, C G Estabrook > wrote: >> >> Mort— >> >> I’m not very interested in what ANSWER (or even Trump) thinks. I am interested in opposing US government war-making - and working to some extent with others who want do the same. >> >> It's been rightly said that in the absence of an accurate analysis, the best will in the world can do the right thing only by accident. Therefore it’s worthwhile to figure out why the US has killed more than 20 million people in more than 37 nations since WWII - and continues to do so today. >> >> Evil as they are, it’s not because of the "fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States” but rather the profits of the US ruling class. But the situation is not perspicuous, not only because of its inherent difficulties but because that ruling class has over the last century produced the most efficient and effective propaganda system in history - outdoing all previous tyrannies - to protect itself against the only enemy it really fears, the US populace. >> >> Those of us who have the leisure to read and write, think and talk, about these issues would seem to have a responsibility to give an accurate account of the situation. I was surprised to read recently that Rosa Luxemburg (murdered by a socialist government a century ago) said, “...it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” >> >> That it seems to me should be the aim of the contemporary anti-war movement in this country, as well. >> >> Regards, Carl >> >> >>> On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>> >>> An excellent response, Karen. Thanks. >>> >>> It seems that Carl, especially, would have us all believe that Trump is a peace-nik, and that his behavior otherwise is only due to the machinations of his cohorts, the Dems, and the so-called "deep state”. >>> >>> "Behavior otherwise" should include his Iran policies, his at best ambiguous behavior towards N Korea, his unvarnished support of Israel, and his administration's support of Ukraine relative to Russia by beefing up NATO forces near Russia’s borders. Have I left out mention of China? And the exorbitant military, nuclear and projected space budgets!? >>> >>> Of course, we expect inconsistencies from a mentally deficient Trump. One cannot truly fathom just where his policies are leading, but they seem frighteningly dangerous, not only with respect to war and peace, but to climate change policies as well. >>> >>> And then there is his domestic agenda in education, the environment, the justice departments, … >>> >>> —mkb >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:23 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: >>>> >>>> So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? >>>> >>>> That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. >>>> >>>> DG >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >>>> >>>> Print >>>> Leaflet >>>> Feedback >>>> Share » >>>> >>>> What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed >>>> By Patrick Martin >>>> 14 August 2018 >>>> The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. >>>> The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. >>>> At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. >>>> And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. >>>> Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. >>>> Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. >>>> It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” >>>> In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. >>>> It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. >>>> The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. >>>> Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. >>>> A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. >>>> For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. >>>> The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class ”). >>>> It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. >>>> >>>> WSWS.ORG >>>> The author also recommends: >>>> Facebook censors the left >>>> [3 August 2018] >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 07:43:10 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 02:43:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] We need an American Corbyn Message-ID: <1DE360C6-D22C-4BC0-AA6A-FA304169E2E1@gmail.com> https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/08/14/jeremy-corbyn-just-stood-up-to-israels-leader-in-a-spectacular-way/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Wed Aug 15 12:04:20 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:04:20 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] We need an American Corbyn In-Reply-To: <1DE360C6-D22C-4BC0-AA6A-FA304169E2E1@gmail.com> References: <1DE360C6-D22C-4BC0-AA6A-FA304169E2E1@gmail.com> Message-ID: I completely agree. Bernie's not there yet. But he's gotten much closer than I would have imagined three years ago. It's quite plausible that he could get there in the next two years if he's pushed consistently. He has the right people nearby. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 3:43 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/08/14/jeremy- > corbyn-just-stood-up-to-israels-leader-in-a-spectacular-way/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 12:37:08 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:37:08 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] YES!!! Patrick Martin nails it. In-Reply-To: <89DEC11B-D7A4-4D10-B914-DB96BBA5F1A0@gmail.com> References: <5EE27976-576A-4816-B9D3-06B2FBD34310@illinois.edu> <18498805-AAE5-4AF6-A9BD-85ACA844EB9A@gmail.com> <89DEC11B-D7A4-4D10-B914-DB96BBA5F1A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: * HOME * SECTIONS » * PUBLICATIONS » * PSL » * DONATE » * Navigate to... Home Sections » – Militant Journalism – Analysis – Video – Archives – Español Publications » – Breaking the Chains Magazine – PSL Books PSL » – About – Join the PSL – Become a Sustainer – Sign Up for Emails – Contact – Party Statements – Upcoming Events – Liberation School – Int’l Bulletin Donate » – Join the Sustainers MILITANT JOURNALISM Download PDF flyer Washington, DC: Multinational solidarity-15K, Nazis/Klan-20 By Paul Wilcox and Morgan Artyukhina Aug 14, 2018 6820 [Liberation photo: Paul Wilcox] Liberation photo: Paul Wilcox They just kept coming, and coming … and coming. First many hundreds, than many thousands of people of every race and gender. They came together here in Washington, D.C., on Aug. 12 to protest the second “Unite the Right” rally, held by neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan to commemorate last year’s march that resulted in the murder of antifascist activist Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, Va. The turnout was overwhelming and inspiring to everyone. Eventually, up to 15,000 people came to say no to racism and denounce the Nazis and Klan. It was a rout: 15,000 anti-racists confronted 20 Nazis and Klan members. It was clear that the successful organizing efforts of the ANSWER Coalition and other organizations had a serious dampening effect on the right-wing racists. No amount of free coverage in the corporate media, no amount of encouragement from the Trump administration, and no amount of covert and overt financial support from the upper class could mask the contempt that the overwhelming majority of working-class people of all nationalities feel for fascists. Trump emboldened white supremacists Feeling emboldened by Donald Trump’s statement that Nazi ranks contained “some very fine people,” the white supremacists scheduled a rally at Lafayette Park, right in front of the White House. With press coverage literally outnumbering them, the “alt-right” forces were confident of spreading their fascist demagogy and hate. Organizers from the ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) Coalition immediately went into action to deny them the ability to use Lafayette Park unopposed to spread their odious message of hate, sending out the word that “the forces opposed to racism, anti-immigrant bigotry, Islamaphobia, anti-LGBTQ hatred and anti-Semitism will not be silenced or intimidated.” Volunteers began to pour in to help with all the tasks required – leaflets, phone calls, banner and sign making, as well as commitments to help with stage setup and security for the day of the protest. Local ANSWER offices throughout the North East oriented volunteers to be disciplined and prepared for whatever might happen, knowing that in the past police, while protecting the racists, have often attacked protesters with clubs and tear gas. Trade unions, restaurants, hotels announce they won’t serve fascists The Washington Area Metro Transit Authority had actually planned to provide separate trains for the white supremacists to ride to their rally with a strong police escort. This Jim Crow-era plan for “white supremacist-only” transportation was exposed by Amalgamated Transit Union Local 689, which stated: “More than 80% of Local 689’s membership is people of color, the very people that the Ku Klux Klan and other white nationalists groups have killed, harassed and violated. … The union has declared that it will not play a role in their accommodation.” In addition, restaurants and hotels throughout D.C. announced they would not serve or house the fascists and services such as Uber, Lyft and Airbnb gave their workers the option of refusing service to white supremacists. Fascists get police escort However, on the day of the Nazi rally, WMATA found a way to have a fascists-only train car and a large police escort anyway! Police shut down the station in Vienna, Virginia, blocking access for regular users to give the fascists ready access to the train, and while the train was in transit to downtown D.C., riders at other stations were notified to use different cars than those transporting the Nazis. And on top of it all, the media rode with them the entire way, effectively giving the fascists an extended and personalized press conference ‘Hate and division hold up capitalism’ [Counter-protest rally stage at Lafayette Park. Co-MC Kerbie Joseph of PSL at mic. Liberation photo by Paul Wilcox.] Counter-protest rally stage at Lafayette Park. Co-MC Kerbie Joseph of PSL at mic. Liberation photo by Paul Wilcox. Speaker after speaker on ANSWER’s stage affirmed the strong, positive message of the anti-racist rally. Rally MCs Eugene Puryear, Yasmina Mrabet, and Kerbie Joseph pointed out the “impressive diversity”of the crowd and explained that “the messages of hate and division are what hold up capitalism.” Kerbie Joseph, of the Party for Socialism and Liberation, declared that the crowd was “a beautiful sight to see” and that “standing together we have real people power. The Nazis have tried to scare the people, but they are the ones who are scared of us.” “There’s nothing that scares them more than a multinational alliance dedicated to protecting each other,” she told the crowd. Jonathan Hutto of Empower DC stated that, “No amount of ignoring was going to stop the Nazis … remember Stalingrad and finish the job!” He also explained that the struggle was not just against racism and fascism but the “economic violence” of poverty. Imam Mahdi Bray, the National Director of the American-Muslim Alliance, told the crowd that when he was a boy, his home had been firebombed by racist thugs with shotguns when his father had gone to vote. Strength and power of diversity To quote several protesters interviewed by Liberation News, the gathering in the park “looked like America.” Everyone seemed energized by the mix of people – over half people of color standing together with white anti-racists. The strength and power of diversity was the most common comment from the crowd. Liberation News spoke with Samantha, who came to D.C. from the Louisville, Ky, area, where they are involved in a local anti-racist coalition. Samantha said it was “important for me to be doing something today. … The very idea that some people are willing to show up in person and say ‘I support genocide, slavery, anti-LGBTQ laws … that’s not okay with me.” They said they hoped to inspire others to become politically involved, just like they had been inspired by seeing protesters on the TV as a kid. Protester Tim Eure told Liberation News he was “glad to see so many communities standing together against racism” and that “white workers were affected by racism, too.” He said that the rally was a “great start” to continue the struggle, not only against Trump, but the domination of “corporations overseeing the distribution of wealth upwards.” A young immigrant from Comoros Island (between Africa and Madagascar) told Liberation News that his family had come to the U.S. in 2006 seeking political asylum. But today, he said, “my family would not get asylum” and, he asked, “What is great about America today?” Activists from the District of Columbia emphasized how white supremacy isn’t limited to sworn fascists, but is endemic to the structures of capitalist society. Puryear, who works with the Stop Police Terror Project, noted that Metropolitan Police Department officers had been caught wearing custom-made shirts bearing white supremacist symbols not just on duty but in court! Norman Momowetu Clement noted that the name of Washington, D.C.’s professional football team is a racial slur for Indigenous people, and that its continued use as a mascot normalizes white supremacy in everyday life. Morgan Artyukhina, of the Party for Socialism and Liberation, told the crowd about fascism’s long history of anti-LGBTQ and anti-disabled violence, noting that Nazi talk about “genetic superiority” was also endorsement of eugenics that dismisses disabled people as inferior and disposable. The speakers at the rally represented a broad cross section of progressive forces including Tighe Barry, CODEPINK; Daryle Lamont Jenkins, One People’s Project; Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, executive director, Partnership for Civil Justice Fund; Reverend Graylan Hagler, Plymouth Congregational United Church of Christ; Kristi Matthews, community organizer; Delonte Wilkins, LinkUp; activist Kay Shante; Megan for Socialist Alternative; Nate Brown, Ward 6 council candidate and D.C. community member; Caneisha Mills, ANSWER Coalition; and many others. Massive police presence escorts fascists The two dozen or so Nazi and Klan members arrived at the opposite end of the park escorted by incredible numbers of police. It was obvious the fascists were only able to have marched and demonstrated at all because they had extensive police protection. The police were all that separated them from the raging fury of the antifascist crowd. The massive turnout of anti-racists was waiting for them with a chorus of boos and chants of “No Nazis, no KKK, no fascist USA.” Late that afternoon thunder and rain arrived, but the crowd was determined not to leave the park until the Nazi/KKK left first. Soon, the tiny Nazi/KKK gathering slinked away, still under police escort, to lick their wounds. In reality, they had been trying to impress corporate America by taking attention away from Wall Street and placing the blame for the suffering of the working class on the backs of people of color, immigrants, LGBTQ people, disabled people and others. The corporate media is always ready with free publicity for racists, but that wasn’t going to happen this day because their organizing had the opposite effect – the anti-racist movement was energized and inspired by the strong gathering of anti-racists. The right-wing New York Post, ever ready to promote its own brand of racism, headlined the next day in its article, “White nationalists fail to draw crowds on anniversary of deadly rally.” The fact is that they did draw crowds, but not the kind of crowd the Post was looking forward to. Other mainstream media likewise downplayed the size of the anti-racist protest – or ignored it completely. The mass mobilization of the multinational working class is not only the best way, but the only way, to stop fascist demagogy in its tracks.On Aug 14, 2018, at 16:57, C G Estabrook > wrote: Are those ‘taking to the streets' like Glendower’s ‘spirits from the vasty deep’? GLENDOWER I can call spirits from the vasty deep. HOTSPUR Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? GLENDOWER Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command The devil. HOTSPUR And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, And I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! Isn’t our job to tell truth? On Aug 14, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Karen Aram > wrote: Carl, though you addressed Mort to this communique, I will respond to say Rosa Luxemburg did say “it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” However, Rosa didn’t stop with just “speaking truth," she acted upon it and urged others to do the same. In other words we can all talk, but unless we take to the streets using civil resistance such as demonstrations, strikes, sit downs, etc. well, here we are after fifteen years with more wars, more killings, interventions, destruction, poverty, loss of jobs, more homeless, public schools being decimated, loss of healthcare, the list goes on and on, and too many people are under the illusion “the next election” will save us. Some of us already know why our corporate owned government/ruling elites are doing what they are doing. Getting others to realize the same isn’t going to come from just social media, or Utube, which is being blocked and censored as we speak. It’s in the streets where action needs to occur, in DC, in Lafayette Park, Wall Street, and a few other places. Maybe Lockheed or Boeing. But being a purist and focusing only on the worse horror as the only issue to be addressed isn’t getting us anywhere. ”On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:58, C G Estabrook > wrote: Mort— I’m not very interested in what ANSWER (or even Trump) thinks. I am interested in opposing US government war-making - and working to some extent with others who want do the same. It's been rightly said that in the absence of an accurate analysis, the best will in the world can do the right thing only by accident. Therefore it’s worthwhile to figure out why the US has killed more than 20 million people in more than 37 nations since WWII - and continues to do so today. Evil as they are, it’s not because of the "fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States” but rather the profits of the US ruling class. But the situation is not perspicuous, not only because of its inherent difficulties but because that ruling class has over the last century produced the most efficient and effective propaganda system in history - outdoing all previous tyrannies - to protect itself against the only enemy it really fears, the US populace. Those of us who have the leisure to read and write, think and talk, about these issues would seem to have a responsibility to give an accurate account of the situation. I was surprised to read recently that Rosa Luxemburg (murdered by a socialist government a century ago) said, “...it is and remains the most revolutionary act to always say loudly what is.” That it seems to me should be the aim of the contemporary anti-war movement in this country, as well. Regards, Carl On Aug 14, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss > wrote: An excellent response, Karen. Thanks. It seems that Carl, especially, would have us all believe that Trump is a peace-nik, and that his behavior otherwise is only due to the machinations of his cohorts, the Dems, and the so-called "deep state”. "Behavior otherwise" should include his Iran policies, his at best ambiguous behavior towards N Korea, his unvarnished support of Israel, and his administration's support of Ukraine relative to Russia by beefing up NATO forces near Russia’s borders. Have I left out mention of China? And the exorbitant military, nuclear and projected space budgets!? Of course, we expect inconsistencies from a mentally deficient Trump. One cannot truly fathom just where his policies are leading, but they seem frighteningly dangerous, not only with respect to war and peace, but to climate change policies as well. And then there is his domestic agenda in education, the environment, the justice departments, … —mkb On Aug 14, 2018, at 11:23 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: So you can get all those people to counter-protest "fascists," but you can't get them to protest Yemen or Gaza? That's absolutely disheartening in my view, on a number of levels, including the authenticity of their alleged political consciousness. DG On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » What the neo-Nazi debacle in Washington showed By Patrick Martin 14 August 2018 The turnout at the Washington neo-Nazi rally Sunday gave a glimpse of the real character of the fascist and white supremacist forces in the United States. Amid a blare of media publicity, grossly exaggerating the popular support for the ultra-right, less than two dozen people turned up for the “Unite the Right 2” rally in Lafayette Park, across from the White House. The entire affair should be described as a state-sponsored provocation rather than an actual rally. The handful of neo-Nazis were given their own private car on the Washington Metro, separated by police from other passengers. They rode through subway stations patrolled by more police, were escorted from the Foggy Bottom Metro station through a private exit, escorted by still more police on the walk to Lafayette Square, and protected there by hundreds of riot police, who kept away anti-fascist protesters who outnumbered the neo-Nazis at least a hundred to one. After the rally, the fascists boarded white vans, supplied either by the police or Metro, and were whisked away to safety. At every point, the neo-Nazis were outnumbered by the journalists covering the non-event. Dozens of reporters trailed Jason Kessler, the organizer of the rally, recording his every word. As for the scale of the media hype, the number of hours of cable television coverage proved to be greater than the number of neo-Nazis in attendance. And this was not primarily Fox News, which was somewhat embarrassed by the pro-Trump character of the white supremacist rally. CNN and MSNBC provided virtually unlimited airtime, and National Public Radio granted Kessler a seven-minute-long interview to spew his racist filth virtually uninterrupted to a nationwide audience. The effect was to build up the neo-Nazis as a potentially formidable force, out of all proportion to their actual support among the American people. Kessler called the rally to spit on the memory of Heather Heyer, the anti-fascist protester murdered by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia, exactly a year before, during the first “Unite the Right” rally in that university town. But it was clear that he miscalculated. While Charlottesville in 2017 was the scene of a full-scale fascist riot involving hundreds of torch-bearing racists, ostensibly defending Confederate statues from planned removal, Lafayette Park in 2018 was a debacle. Many of the racist groups that took part in Charlottesville decided not to come to Washington, at least in part because of the planned left-wing counterprotests. Also, much of the Virginia-based ultra-right is engaged in the campaign of Republican Senate candidate Corey Stewart, who is openly appealing to racism and anti-immigrant bigotry and is being shunned by the Republican Party establishment, although not by Trump, who has effusively endorsed him. It is worth pointing out that efforts to organize counterprotests to “Unite the Right 2” were censored by Facebook, on the thoroughly bogus grounds that they represented an artificial movement supposedly instigated by the Russian government to set Americans against each other. Facebook shut down one website promoting the counterprotest claiming that it showed signs of “inauthentic activity.” In reality, thousands of young people and working people turned out for the counterprotest, with some traveling from New York City or even further to show their hatred for the fascists as well as their hostility to the Trump administration, which they clearly regarded as the moral author of the neo-Nazi rally, if not the actual sponsor. It was “Unite the Right 2” which better deserved the label “inauthentic” since it was made possible only by state and media manipulation, attracted almost no one, and had no genuine popular support. The debacle in Lafayette Park does not mean that neo-Nazis and white supremacists can be dismissed or ignored. But it showed where the real danger lies: not as yet in any significant mass support for their ultra-reactionary politics, but in the systematic promotion of such forces by the capitalist state, both by the Trump administration and through police forces at every level, from ICE and the Border Patrol down to the local cops. Fascist elements are promoted to intimidate popular opposition to the Trump administration, and to create the impression that there is significant support for its right-wing rampage against immigrants and its all-out backing of police violence and brutality against the working class. A particularly foul role is played by the corporate media, backed by sections of the pseudo-left, who present the white supremacist groups as having widespread support, in keeping with their habitual slanders of white workers as being incorrigibly racist. For nearly two years, the Democratic Party and its media allies have peddled a racialist explanation for the election of Trump and the right-wing policies being pursued by his administration. According to this narrative, Trump won the presidency because of a white racist vote in the working class in states such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The claims that America is awash in racism, and that Trump’s election proves it, have been repeatedly disproven by serious analyses of the voting patterns in 2016 (see: “The myth of the reactionary white working class”). It is especially absurd, given that the same states voted twice for Barack Obama, the first African-American president, and several were won by Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries over Hillary Clinton. It was only the right-wing campaign of Clinton, who made not the slightest appeal to the working class, that drove down turnout among both white and black workers and gave Trump the opening to win support on the basis of economic nationalism and populist demagogy. WSWS.ORG The author also recommends: Facebook censors the left [3 August 2018] _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 04:11:42 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:11:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Trump takes on (part of) the war party Message-ID: <5287C4A7-CCFB-441F-A9F3-AB9B383B844A@gmail.com> [Pepe Escobar] TRUMP SMOKES OUT BRENNAN - AND HE IS RIGHT. From Trump's statement, released by the White House: "As the head of the executive branch and Commander in Chief, I have a unique, Constitutional responsibility to protect the Nation’s classified information, including by controlling access to it. Today, in fulfilling that responsibility, I have decided to revoke the security clearance of John Brennan, former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). "Historically, former heads of intelligence and law enforcement agencies have been allowed to retain access to classified information after their Government service so that they can consult with their successors regarding matters about which they may have special insights and as a professional courtesy. Neither of these justifications supports Mr. Brennan’s continued access to classified information. "First, at this point in my Administration, any benefits that senior officials might glean from consultations with Mr. Brennan are now outweighed by the risks posed by his erratic conduct and behavior. Second, that conduct and behavior has tested and far exceeded the limits of any professional courtesy that may have been due to him. Mr. Brennan has a history that calls into question his objectivity and credibility. In 2014, for example, he denied to Congress that CIA officials under his supervision had improperly accessed the computer files of congressional staffers. "He told the Council of Foreign Relations that the CIA would never do such a thing. The CIA’s Inspector General, however, contradicted Mr. Brennan directly, concluding unequivocally that agency officials had indeed improperly accessed congressional staffers’ files. More recently, Mr. Brennan told Congress that the intelligence community did not make use of the so-called Steele Dossier in an assessment regarding the 2016 election, an assertion contradicted by at least two other senior officials in the intelligence community and all of the facts.” —CGE From r-szoke at illinois.edu Thu Aug 16 20:51:42 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:51:42 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Bank Bail In References: <469D759E-588C-4437-A51A-10922326EAC2@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Today’s dirt on Obama! And it’s FREE. You have been warned! From: "Szoke, Ron" > Subject: Bank Bail In Date: August 16, 2018 http://info.thehartfordgoldgroup.com/new-law-gives-banks-ability-to-seize-your-accounts?LeadSource=Email&medium__c=email&campaign__c=newsmaxaarp&content__c=bailinshortform&sentdate__c=081618&Campaign=70137000000A0gV New Law Gives Banks Ability to Seize Your Accounts Featuring the retirement income strategy seen on: Thursday August 16, 2018 ________________________________ Your accounts may be at risk with the passing of a new law: The Money Market Reform Act This little known law that was quietly signed by former President Obama at the end of his term could forfeit control of YOUR account and give it to the BANKS. Here's How You Could Be Affected by The Money Market Reform Act: #1: Banks could confiscate your accounts including IRA's and 401K's #2: YOUR hard-earned life savings could be used to bail out the GREEDY banks #3: These types of accounts would no longer be FDIC insured This sneaky law which bankers refer to as the “bail-IN” leaves millions of Americans' bank accounts & IRA/401K's exposed. And the absolute crazy part is they have no idea!! Don't leave your accounts exposed to the greedy banks - the risks are real. Does this all sound familiar? Well it should as similar laws were passed in Greece & Cyprus right before the last financial meltdown. Citizens woke up one morning with their accounts completely wiped out with ZERO recourse. Bottom line: How you PREPARE could mean the difference between forfeiting your accounts or protecting them with GOLD - a physical, tangible asset that the banks can't touch. --Download Your Free Guide the banks don't want you to read-- BONUS: First 100 respondents will receive a coupon for up to $2500 in FREE SILVER. [cid:BF26DE5B-5953-4158-B763-D5C4BD6BA7DD at hsd1.il.comcast.net] --YOUR ACCOUNTS COULD BE AT RISK IF YOU DELAY-- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3D-01.png Type: image/png Size: 221794 bytes Desc: 3D-01.png URL: From bill.strutz at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 02:15:23 2018 From: bill.strutz at gmail.com (Bill Strutz) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 21:15:23 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Bank Bail In In-Reply-To: References: <469D759E-588C-4437-A51A-10922326EAC2@illinois.edu> Message-ID: According to Bloomberg, bail-ins are not bad. When a bank goes bust, the first thing that happens is that stockholders' equity is wiped out. Then they erase the junior debts (bonds). Then the senior debts (bonds) The wiped-out debts are converted into shares of common stock. All of this so far is eminently fair. It is the way that equity and unsecured debt is supposed to work in accounting theory. The article does not go into the specific legislation, however, I am fairly sure that if you are putting money into a non-insured account, you DO know it up-front. https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/bail-in On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 3:51 PM Szoke, Ron wrote: > Today’s dirt on Obama! And it’s FREE. > You have been warned! > > *From: *"Szoke, Ron" > *Subject: **Bank Bail In* > *Date: *August 16, 2018 > > > http://info.thehartfordgoldgroup.com/new-law-gives-banks-ability-to-seize-your-accounts?LeadSource=Email&medium__c=email&campaign__c=newsmaxaarp&content__c=bailinshortform&sentdate__c=081618&Campaign=70137000000A0gV > > New Law Gives Banks Ability to Seize Your Accounts > > *Featuring the retirement income strategy seen on:* > > Thursday August 16, 2018 > ------------------------------ > > Your accounts may be at risk with the passing of a new law: *The Money > Market Reform Act* > > This little known law that was *quietly signed by former President Obama > at the end of his term* could forfeit control of YOUR account and give it > to the BANKS. > > *Here's How You Could Be Affected by The Money Market Reform Act:* > > *#1:* Banks could confiscate your accounts including IRA's and 401K's > *#2:* YOUR hard-earned life savings could be used to bail out the GREEDY > banks > *#3:* These types of accounts would no longer be FDIC insured > > This sneaky law which bankers refer to as the “bail-*IN*” leaves millions > of Americans' bank accounts & IRA/401K's exposed. And the absolute crazy > part is they have no idea!! > > *Don't leave your accounts exposed to the greedy banks - the risks are > real.* > > Does this all sound familiar? Well it should as similar laws were passed > in Greece & Cyprus right before the last financial meltdown. Citizens woke > up one morning with their accounts completely wiped out with ZERO recourse. > > Bottom line: How you PREPARE could mean the difference between forfeiting > your accounts or protecting them with GOLD - a physical, tangible asset > that the banks can't touch. > > --Download Your Free Guide the banks don't want you to read-- > > *BONUS:* First 100 respondents will receive a coupon for up to $2500 in > FREE SILVER. > > *--YOUR ACCOUNTS COULD BE AT RISK IF YOU DELAY--* > > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *My name is a complete sentence* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3D-01.png Type: image/png Size: 221794 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 16:21:57 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 11:21:57 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Distraction Message-ID: <4E144310-753A-46D1-9E5A-7073BC8FDE8E@gmail.com> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/17/where-have-all-the-nazis-gone/ ‘...So it was a little embarrassing, to put it mildly, when only a dozen or two racists showed up, instead of the hordes of swastika-tattooed, Sieg-heiling Nazis the Resistance was hoping for. After all the energy and money they’ve invested in convincing millions of credulous liberals that America is being existentially threatened by legions of fascists “emboldened” by Trump (and somehow connected to Vladimir Putin), to then have this paltry bunch of racist misfits show up for “the big Nazi rally” … well, it kind of makes a mockery of the official narrative they’ve been selling everyone.’ —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Fri Aug 17 21:26:07 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 21:26:07 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Escobar speculates and prognosticates Message-ID: <0450D842-E4CC-4FD0-97EB-557D0BF8C9B9@illinois.edu> Economic war on Iran is war on Eurasia integration US sanctions on Iran should be interpreted as a piece in a much larger chessboard By Pepe Escobar August 14, 2018 12:43 AM (UTC+8) [Life carries on in Tehran despite the threat of US sanctions. Photo: Anadolu Agency/Fatemeh Bahrami] Life carries on in Tehran despite the threat of US sanctions. Photo: Anadolu Agency/Fatemeh Bahrami Hysteria reigned supreme after the first round of US sanctions were reinstated against Iran over the past week. War scenarios abound, and yet the key aspect of the economic war unleashed by the Trump administration has been overlooked: Iran is a major piece in a much larger chessboard. The US sanctions offensive, launched after Washington’s unilateral pullout from the Iran nuclear deal, should be interpreted as an advance gambit in the New Great Game at whose center lies China’s New Silk Road – arguably the most important infrastructure project of the 21st century — and overall Eurasia integration. The Trump administration’s maneuvers are a testament to how China’s New Silk Road, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), threaten the US establishment. Eurasian integration on the rise Eurasian integration is on display in Astana, where Russia, Iran and Turkey are deciding the fate of Syria, in coordination with Damascus. Iran’s strategic depth in post-war Syria simply won’t vanish. The challenge of Syrian reconstruction will be met largely by Bashar al-Assad’s allies: China, Russia and Iran. Echoing the Ancient Silk Road, Syria will be configured as an important BRI node, key to Eurasia integration. In parallel, the Russia-China strategic partnership – from the intersection between the BRI and the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU) to the expansion of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and the solidifying of BRICS Plus — has immense economic stakes in the stability of Iran. The complex interconnection of Iran with both Russia (via the EAEU and the International North-South Transportation Corridor) and China (via BRI and oil/gas supplies) is even tighter than in the case of Syria in the past seven years of civil war. Iran is absolutely essential for Russia-China for the partnership to allow any “surgical strike” — as floated in Syria — or worse, hot war initiated by Washington. A case could be made that with his recent overture to President Putin, President Trump is trying to negotiate some sort of freeze in the current configuration — a remixed Sykes-Picot for the 21st century. But that assumes Trump’s decision-making is not being dictated or co-opted by the US neocon cabal that pressed for the 2003 war in Iraq. North Korea two? If the situation turns volcanic when the US oil sanctions on Iran kick in by early November, an actual remix of the recent North Korea scenario would be in the cards. Washington simultaneously sent three carrier battle groups to terrify North Korea. That failed – and Trump ended up having to chat with Kim Jong-un. Despite the US record around the world — endless threats of a Venezuela invasion with the only tangible result an amateurish, failed drone attack; 17 years of endless war in Afghanistan, with the Taliban still as immovable as the Hindu Kush peaks; the “4+1” – Russia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, plus Hezbollah – winning the vicious proxy war in Syria — US neocons scream and shout about striking Iran. As with North Korea, Russia and China will send unmistakable signs that Iran is in their closely coordinated Eurasian sphere of influence, and any attack on Iran will be considered an attack on the whole Eurasian sphere. Stranger things have happened, but it’s hard to see any rational actors in Washington, Tel Aviv and Riyadh wishing to have Beijing and Moscow — simultaneously — as lethal enemies. All across Southwest Asia, there are no doubts the official Trump administration – and in fact, the whole Beltway – policy on Iran is regime change. So from now on, short of hot war, the new rules of the game spell out stepped-up cyber-warfare. From Washington’s point of view, in terms of return on investment that’s a relative bargain; cyber-warfare keeps the Russia-China partnership away from direct involvement while in theory digging deeper into the economic collapse of Iran, heavily advertised as imminent by Trump administration officials. The Chinese Foreign Ministry could not be more explicit on the US effort to reimpose global sanctions on Iran. “China’s commercial cooperation with Iran is open and transparent, reasonable, fair and lawful, not violating any United Nations Security Council resolutions,” it said. That echoes the Russian Foreign Ministry on the US sanctions: “This is a graphic example of Washington’s continued violation of UN Security Council Resolution 2231 and trampling upon the norms of international law.” President Trump for his part has also been explicit: any nation that violates the sanctions against Iran will not do business with the US. Good luck with having support from Turkey or Qatar – completely dependent on Iran for food, use of civilian airspace and sharing gas exploration in South Pars. Not to mention Russia-China assuring Tehran’s back on all fronts. How not to do business with China? The die is cast. China not only will continue but also will increase its purchase of Iranian oil and gas. The Chinese auto industry – currently with 10% of the Iranian market – will simply take over as the French leave. Chinese companies are already responsible for 50% of auto parts imported into Iran. Russia for its part has pledged to invest as much as $50 billion in Iranian oil and natural gas. Moscow is very much aware of the Trump administration’s next possible step; imposing sanctions on Russian companies investing in Iran. Washington simply can’t “not do business” with China. The entire US defense industry is dependent on China for rare earth materials. Since the 1980s, US multinationals set up their export supply chains in China with direct encouragement of the US government. The EU for its part has enforced a Blocking Statute – never used before, although in existence for already two decades — to protect European companies, even coming to the point of imposing fines on businesses that pull out of Iran because of plain fear. In theory, that shows some balls. And yet, as EU diplomats in Brussels told Asia Times, there’s a major conditional: US satrapies/vassals abound across the EU, so quite a few EU-based companies, as in the case of Total and Renault, in the end, will simply roll over. Meanwhile, what Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said about US unilateralism – the world “is sick and tired” of it – keeps echoing all across the Global South. The Mother of All Financial Hurricanes Those clamoring for war with Iran cannot possibly understand that the nightmare scenario of a Strait of Hormuz/Persian Gulf energy transit closure – the choke point for 22 million barrels of oil a day – would represent, ultimately, the death of the petrodollar. The Strait of Hormuz can be configured as the Achilles heel of the entire West/US economic power; a closure would detonate the mother of all hurricanes in the quadrillion-dollar derivatives market. Unless China does not buy Iranian energy, US sanctions — as a geo-economic tool — are essentially meaningless. Certainly not, of course, for the “Iranian people” so dear to the Beltway, as more day-to-day financial grief is already setting in, side by side with a sense of national cohesiveness in the face, once again, of an external threat. China and Russia have already pledged to continue to implement the JCPOA, alongside the EU-3; after all, this is an UN-endorsed multilateral treaty. Beijing has already informed Washington in no uncertain terms that it will continue to do business with Iran. So the ball is now in Washington’s court. It will be up to the Trump administration to decide whether to sanction China for its unwillingness to stop trading with Iran. It’s not exactly a wise move to threaten China – especially with Beijing on an irresistible historical ascendancy. Nehru threatened China and lost a big chunk of Arunachal Pradesh to Chairman Mao. Brezhnev threatened China and faced the wrath of the PLA on the banks of the Ussuri River. China is able to cut the US off in a minute from its rare earth exports, creating a US national security catastrophe. Now that’s when a trade war will enter real incandescent territory. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 01:34:23 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 20:34:23 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Not Left v. Right but populism v. corporate globalism Message-ID: <19D6E7A1-7CC3-4C0B-9DCF-266C88B6E923@gmail.com> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/17/where-have-all-the-nazis-gone/ ...the global capitalist ruling classes are conducting a counterinsurgency PSYOP, the objective of which is to put down “populist” resistance to the spread of global capitalism. There is no clutch of global capitalists sitting in a room conspiring to do this. It is simply the system responding (as a system) to eliminate an internal threat, and reestablish control of its environment, which in this case happens to be the whole planet (as global capitalism has no external enemies). One part of this counterinsurgency PSYOP is to delegitimize anyone and anything that stands in the way of global capitalism. It does not matter one iota whether the opposition stems from what most of us think of as the “left” or the “right.” Global capitalism does not care. It simply cannot have major disruptions like the Brexit referendum and the election of Trump screwing with its Privatization of Everything (which it began in the early 1990s, immediately after the end of the Cold War). Such populist insurgencies feed each other. One day, it’s the nationalists abandoning the EU, the next day, it’s socialists boycotting Israel, the day after that it could be Americans demanding universal healthcare, subsidized college education, or demilitarization of the nation’s police. Things could get out of control pretty quickly. The other part of this counterinsurgency PSYOP is manufacturing as much mass hysteria and paranoia about Russian agents and emboldened Nazis as humanly possible. This aspect of the PSYOP sells itself … opposing global capitalism is difficult work and not very rewarding. It’s so much easier (and much more fun) to hunt down imaginary Russians and Nazis. And if you don’t know any Russian operatives, or can’t find any actual Nazis, no worries, there are plenty of Assad-apologists, Putin-apologists, Alex Jones-apologists, terrorist-apologists, transphobic racists, anti-Semitic British socialists, and crypto-Red-Brown fascist entryists, not to mention Susan Sarandon and everyone else who didn’t vote for Clinton. You can hunt them down and call them names on Facebook from the comfort of your home. I’m relatively sure the Internet monitors at the Atlantic Council won’t mind if you do. Just watch what you say about the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, and the other valiant corporations and non-governmental organizations that are “working together to secure the future.” —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 01:44:35 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 20:44:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Escobar speculates and prognosticates In-Reply-To: <0450D842-E4CC-4FD0-97EB-557D0BF8C9B9@illinois.edu> References: <0450D842-E4CC-4FD0-97EB-557D0BF8C9B9@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <413B489B-E7C5-4185-B197-CB775455B1FC@gmail.com> The prevention of Eurasian integration - under any auspices, Eastern or western - has been the cornerstone of US foreign policy since the Open Door Policy. The exploitation of Eurasia has been a major source of ruling class wealth since the 19th century. That’s why 1949 was the year of the greatest defeat for US fp. Ever since, the US has attempted to recover its (relatively) declining empire by killing 20 million people in East Asia (Korea), SE Asia (Vietnam), SW Asia, Africa and Latin America. —CGE > On Aug 17, 2018, at 4:26 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Economic war on Iran is war on Eurasia integration > > US sanctions on Iran should be interpreted as a piece in a much larger chessboard > > By Pepe Escobar August 14, 2018 12:43 AM (UTC+8) > > Life carries on in Tehran despite the threat of US sanctions. Photo: Anadolu Agency/Fatemeh Bahrami > Hysteria reigned supreme after the first round of US sanctions were reinstated against Iran over the past week. War scenarios abound, and yet the key aspect of the economic war unleashed by the Trump administration has been overlooked: Iran is a major piece in a much larger chessboard. > > The US sanctions offensive, launched after Washington’s unilateral pullout from the Iran nuclear deal, should be interpreted as an advance gambit in the New Great Game at whose center lies China’s New Silk Road – arguably the most important infrastructure project of the 21st century — and overall Eurasia integration. > > The Trump administration’s maneuvers are a testament to how China’s New Silk Road, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), threaten the US establishment. > Eurasian integration on the rise > > Eurasian integration is on display in Astana, where Russia, Iran and Turkey are deciding the fate of Syria, in coordination with Damascus. > > Iran’s strategic depth in post-war Syria simply won’t vanish. The challenge of Syrian reconstruction will be met largely by Bashar al-Assad’s allies: China, Russia and Iran. > > Echoing the Ancient Silk Road, Syria will be configured as an important BRI node, key to Eurasia integration. > > In parallel, the Russia-China strategic partnership – from the intersection between the BRI and the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU) to the expansion of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and the solidifying of BRICS Plus — has immense economic stakes in the stability of Iran. > > The complex interconnection of Iran with both Russia (via the EAEU and the International North-South Transportation Corridor) and China (via BRI and oil/gas supplies) is even tighter than in the case of Syria in the past seven years of civil war. > > Iran is absolutely essential for Russia-China for the partnership to allow any “surgical strike” — as floated in Syria — or worse, hot war initiated by Washington. > > A case could be made that with his recent overture to President Putin, President Trump is trying to negotiate some sort of freeze in the current configuration — a remixed Sykes-Picot for the 21st century. > > But that assumes Trump’s decision-making is not being dictated or co-opted by the US neocon cabal that pressed for the 2003 war in Iraq. > > North Korea two? > > If the situation turns volcanic when the US oil sanctions on Iran kick in by early November, an actual remix of the recent North Korea scenario would be in the cards. Washington simultaneously sent three carrier battle groups to terrify North Korea. That failed – and Trump ended up having to chat with Kim Jong-un. > > Despite the US record around the world — endless threats of a Venezuela invasion with the only tangible result an amateurish, failed drone attack; 17 years of endless war in Afghanistan, with the Taliban still as immovable as the Hindu Kush peaks; the “4+1” – Russia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, plus Hezbollah – winning the vicious proxy war in Syria — US neocons scream and shout about striking Iran. > > As with North Korea, Russia and China will send unmistakable signs that Iran is in their closely coordinated Eurasian sphere of influence, and any attack on Iran will be considered an attack on the whole Eurasian sphere. > > Stranger things have happened, but it’s hard to see any rational actors in Washington, Tel Aviv and Riyadh wishing to have Beijing and Moscow — simultaneously — as lethal enemies. > > All across Southwest Asia, there are no doubts the official Trump administration – and in fact, the whole Beltway – policy on Iran is regime change. So from now on, short of hot war, the new rules of the game spell out stepped-up cyber-warfare. > > From Washington’s point of view, in terms of return on investment that’s a relative bargain; cyber-warfare keeps the Russia-China partnership away from direct involvement while in theory digging deeper into the economic collapse of Iran, heavily advertised as imminent by Trump administration officials. > > The Chinese Foreign Ministry could not be more explicit on the US effort to reimpose global sanctions on Iran. “China’s commercial cooperation with Iran is open and transparent, reasonable, fair and lawful, not violating any United Nations Security Council resolutions,” it said. > > That echoes the Russian Foreign Ministry on the US sanctions: “This is a graphic example of Washington’s continued violation of UN Security Council Resolution 2231 and trampling upon the norms of international law.” > > President Trump for his part has also been explicit: any nation that violates the sanctions against Iran will not do business with the US. > > Good luck with having support from Turkey or Qatar – completely dependent on Iran for food, use of civilian airspace and sharing gas exploration in South Pars. Not to mention Russia-China assuring Tehran’s back on all fronts. > > How not to do business with China? > > The die is cast. China not only will continue but also will increase its purchase of Iranian oil and gas. > > The Chinese auto industry – currently with 10% of the Iranian market – will simply take over as the French leave. Chinese companies are already responsible for 50% of auto parts imported into Iran. > > Russia for its part has pledged to invest as much as $50 billion in Iranian oil and natural gas. Moscow is very much aware of the Trump administration’s next possible step; imposing sanctions on Russian companies investing in Iran. > > Washington simply can’t “not do business” with China. The entire US defense industry is dependent on China for rare earth materials. Since the 1980s, US multinationals set up their export supply chains in China with direct encouragement of the US government. > > The EU for its part has enforced a Blocking Statute – never used before, although in existence for already two decades — to protect European companies, even coming to the point of imposing fines on businesses that pull out of Iran because of plain fear. > > In theory, that shows some balls. And yet, as EU diplomats in Brussels told Asia Times, there’s a major conditional: US satrapies/vassals abound across the EU, so quite a few EU-based companies, as in the case of Total and Renault, in the end, will simply roll over. > > Meanwhile, what Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said about US unilateralism – the world “is sick and tired” > of it – keeps echoing all across the Global South. > > The Mother of All Financial Hurricanes > > Those clamoring for war with Iran cannot possibly understand that the nightmare scenario of a Strait of Hormuz/Persian Gulf energy transit closure – the choke point for 22 million barrels of oil a day – would represent, ultimately, the death of the petrodollar. > > The Strait of Hormuz can be configured as the Achilles heel of the entire West/US economic power; a closure would detonate the mother of all hurricanes in the quadrillion-dollar derivatives market. > > Unless China does not buy Iranian energy, US sanctions — as a geo-economic tool — are essentially meaningless. > > Certainly not, of course, for the “Iranian people” so dear to the Beltway, as more day-to-day financial grief is already setting in, side by side with a sense of national cohesiveness in the face, once again, of an external threat. > > China and Russia have already pledged to continue to implement the JCPOA, alongside the EU-3; after all, this is an UN-endorsed multilateral treaty. > > Beijing has already informed Washington in no uncertain terms that it will continue to do business with Iran. So the ball is now in Washington’s court. It will be up to the Trump administration to decide whether to sanction China for its unwillingness to stop trading with Iran. > > It’s not exactly a wise move to threaten China – especially with Beijing on an irresistible historical ascendancy. Nehru threatened China and lost a big chunk of Arunachal Pradesh to Chairman Mao. Brezhnev threatened China and faced the wrath of the PLA on the banks of the Ussuri River. > > China is able to cut the US off in a minute from its rare earth exports, creating a US national security catastrophe. Now that’s when a trade war will enter real incandescent territory. > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 09:23:09 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 04:23:09 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Chomsky on US/Israel today Message-ID: <23142479-1820-412A-B79C-CCE5B301E709@gmail.com> http://english.pnn.ps/2018/08/18/chomsky-israels-support-erodes-in-america/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Sun Aug 19 03:31:42 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 03:31:42 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Antisemitism and Corbyn Message-ID: <22B1C38A-657B-4C1F-BD2C-5D171DB02B26@illinois.edu> You will be interested in this powerful analysis: http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/08/17/finkelstein-on-corbyn-mania/ Mort -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 17:40:40 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2018 12:40:40 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Antisemitism and Corbyn In-Reply-To: <22B1C38A-657B-4C1F-BD2C-5D171DB02B26@illinois.edu> References: <22B1C38A-657B-4C1F-BD2C-5D171DB02B26@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Finkelstein at his logical and devastating best. On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 PM Brussel, Morton K wrote: > You will be interested in this powerful analysis: > http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/08/17/finkelstein-on-corbyn-mania/ > > Mort > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 18:28:25 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 13:28:25 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The poets often get here first - and so must be misinterpreted Message-ID: <082CC5B4-FF4F-4ABF-B302-C498EBDC6124@gmail.com> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/15/russiagate-and-the-men-with-glass-eyes/ ...Inept in leadership, inexpert in policy, Trump is merely an obstacle to the perpetuation of the capitalist imperialism on the neoliberal model so expertly guided by Barack Obama. ...Not capable of bringing real proof in an American court of law, corrupt as it is, Robert Mueller’s special counsel cleverly–or perhaps transparently–choose to indict Russians who will never see the inside of a North American courtroom, as well as a handful of Trumpian associates who he is able to convict for crimes uncovered in his borderless troll through Trump’s nefarious real estate backrooms, but which have nothing to do with the so-called “collusion” suspicion for which Mueller has been engaged. (Mueller had already proven his fealty to the deep state with his pathetic lies about Iraqi WMDs...) ...the Democrats make a great theater out of exhibiting their all-consuming desire to “protect our democracy” a phrase that economically conveys two falsehoods in three words. It deserves a prime time place in any definition of “two-faced” in Webster’s, or in the enumerated faults of neoliberal Democrats. Precedent Ignored ...what have the Democrats and the intelligence agencies and their slavish media newsrooms and op-ed departments been doing unceasingly since even before the election: casting the sexist and racist character of the president in the starkest relief imaginable, then adding in the poison of treason to a cocktail of contempt, a trifecta of indictments that they believe will surely product the constitutional coup they hope for. Why? Not because they give a damn about democracy, since we don’t live in one and have long since abandoned the practice, if not the pretence, of democracy for plutocracy. We’ve done this on their own watch. No, the Democrats want Trump out because, still smiting from the embarrassment of their world-historical loss to the buffoon they hand-picked for an opponent, they are desperate to regain power. The effort is led by members of Congress Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein, Elijah Cummings, Jerrold Nadler, and others. They’ve cleverly aligned themselves outright with the intelligence and military community because they know the latter is likewise desperate to maintain the trajectory of American hegemony that has been in place since the end of World War Two. The intelligence front is led by former CIA lead and the godfather of Russiagate, John Brennan, who spied on Congress; and also former National Intelligence Director James Clapper, who wittingly lied to Congress about surveillance. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his ravenous gang of legal muckrakers lead the formal attempt to legitimate the fatuities of Russiagate. Add to these an ocean of MSM zealots like the Times' Charles Blow and MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow and CNN’s Wolf “Blitzkrieg” Blitzer. This loose confederacy of dunces have perfected the art of maintaining permanent crisis mode. This is precisely the same kind of vigilance with which the neoconservatives and its supplicant press corps maintained a perpetual state of alarm before George Bush doubled Bill Clinton’s record for Iraqi slaughter (+/- 1M to +/- 500k). Nobody seems to remember or know about the Church Committee from the 1970s, which uncovered the rank treachery of the CIA and its peer institutions. Nor do they recall how pliant and tractable some in their ranks were in the run-up to the worst war of the century in Iraq. Nor do they seem to recall the history of our foreign policy community and its biblical devotion to global dominion by any means necessary. They are no less zealous than the Zionists – a compliment of the highest order for true devotees of settler colonialism and imperial expansionists. You can follow the line of imperial thought from button-up imperialist “realists” George Kennan and Dean Acheson and John Foster Dulles, to the smug savagery of Henry Kissinger; then to the fell designs of Mackinder acolyte Zbigniew Brzezinksi, and all the way through to the Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle Project for a New American Century clan; then on to the empowered manias of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld; and straight through to the slightly more muted personas of Richard Gates and Ashton Carter, and finally on to the unhinged ravings of John Bolton. The Democrats now lionize these people. ...Democrats trust the intelligence agencies they’ve conspired with to regain power and work to hinder any efforts at peace the president makes in the meantime. This from a community that railed at “Republican obstructionism” and professes a commitment to peace in foreign policy. (Continue reading after you’ve pacified your howling derision.) Perhaps the only three decent decisions of Donald Trump since November 2016 have been: + Meeting Kim Jong-un, a step dutifully ignored by all other administrations since the Korean War ended, and calling off the threatening and chest-thumping military drills that have helped reinforce a paranoid government in Pyeongyang. In an emblematic instance of mainstream media coverage, the Washington Post (with its laughable masthead line, “Democracy Dies in Darkness”) breathlessly reported on “stunned” U.S. officials who “fretted” like brittle octogenarian grandmothers about meeting with such a duplicitous rogue nation. Naturally, “U.S. officials cautioned…” that we ought not to trust the DPRK after their littered past of broken promises. Of course, the paper forgets to note Washington’s own record of shifty deceits and dissembling guile. Much like The New York Times did yesterday when it professed faux concern over slaughtered children in Yemen without once mentioning the U.S. role facilitating that war. + Efforts to warm relations with Moscow after the Obama administration rebooted the Cold War when the security state realized that fearmongering about Islamic terrorism was wearing thin on western publics. The subsequent reorientation of American power against established powers rather than terrorist cliques flies in the face of Trump’s attempts to form positive alliances with Vladimir Putin over Syria, to bring Russia back into the G7, and to end the theatrics over alleged Russian government efforts to subvert the fake democratic process in the U.S. His sideline meetingswith Putin in Vietnam – behaving like a young teen trying to escape his parents’ watchful eye for sixty seconds – and their summit in Helsinki, perhaps the need for a formal summit being triggered by the intense efforts to keep the two leaders apart. + Decision to quit funding terrorists in Syria, as the Obama administration did surreptitiously by diverting weapons deliveries through allies and by rebranding jihadists as “moderate rebels.” Democratic “obstructionism” in the form of Russiagate has foiled efforts to move forward on all three fronts, belying their professed distaste for both warmaking and partisanship. ...look at the history of American capitalism and its highest stage, imperialism, assess its motives, and call the present “defense of democracy” campaign for what it truly is: a slow-motion constitutional coup and a rapid-fire perception management master class. Our own founding father and slave-owner, the “author of America”, Thomas Jefferson, wrote this: “The most effectual engines for pacifying a nation are the public papers… A despotic government always keeps a kind of standing army of news-writers who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, invent and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.” Was he wrong? Greenblatt would have us believe the champions of justice and decency are making a heroic effort to defang a coming tyrant before he brings us to certain ruin. Please. Even Falstaff knew better than that. --Jason Hirthler >, author of The Sins of Empire: Unmasking American Imperialism -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 22:54:08 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] A Mighty Voice for Peace Has Gone Silent: Uri Avnery, 1923-2018 Message-ID: *- www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org -*A Mighty Voice for Peace Has Gone Silent: Uri Avnery, 1923-2018Posted By Jeffrey St. Clair On August 20, 2018 @ 12:15 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled We received word early this morning that Israeli human rights activist and long-time CounterPunch contributor Uri Avnery died in Tel Aviv, following a heart attack. Avnery, who was one of the first Israelis to call for the creation of a Palestinian state, was 94. He lived a sprawling life. He was born in Germany in 1923 and his family fled to British Palestine a few months after Hitler came to power. As a young man he was dispersed leaflets for the Irgun, a terrorist Zionist organization, and it haunted him for most of his life. Avnery would later play chess with Yasser Arafat and become one of the PLO’s most ardent Israeli defenders. Avnery began sending us his column in 2002, only a few months after CounterPunch went online. And they came, usually on a Friday night, with a faithful regularity. The first column Avnery sent us was “The Ship is on the Way,” on the blockade of Gaza. The final one, a scathing indictment of Israel’s new “Basic Law,” was published on August 6, under the title “Who the Hell are we.” Alexander Cockburn was one of Uri’s most faithful readers. Even though Cockburn disagreed with Avnery about the two-state solution and other political matters, he admired the high quality and fluidity of Avnery’s prose. Cockburn once told me that Avnery reminded him of his father Claud. Alex marveled at his ability to churn out original and compelling columns even while struggling with illness, age or the loss of his wife. But most of all we admired Avnery’s optimism in the face of despair, which never wavered even in the darkest hours. Article printed from www.counterpunch.org: *https://www.counterpunch.org * URL to article: *https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/20/a-mighty-voice-for-peace-has-gone-silent-uri-avnery-1923-2018/ * Click here to print. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Tue Aug 21 12:23:57 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 07:23:57 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Latest: ACLU blasts Portland police handling of protest Message-ID: <003401d43949$d5971070$80c53150$@comcast.net> I have been meaning to share this for several weeks now. AGAIN, Police attacking anti-fascist protestors and publicly publishing the names, photos and addresses of the anti fascists arrested making them targets for reprisals. Fascists are the shock troops of the capitalist class. Always have been and still are. David J. ... The Latest: ACLU blasts Portland police handling of protest https://1yxsm73j7aop3quc9y5ifaw3-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/ 2015/04/AP_RGB-259x300-112x112.png By The Associated Press August 5, 2018 11:44 pm PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - The Latest on protests in Portland, Oregon (all times local): 8:30 p.m. The head of the Oregon branch of the American Civil Liberties Union has criticized the way the Portland Police Bureau handled Saturday's demonstrations. "The Portland Police Bureau's response to protest is completely unacceptable in a free society," David Rogers said in a statement issued Sunday night. "The repeated use of excessive force, and the targeting of demonstrators based on political beliefs are a danger to the First Amendment rights of all people. We call on the Portland Police Bureau, Mayor Wheeler, and Chief Outlaw to immediately end the use of weapons, munitions, and explosives against protesters." Insight by Juniper Networks: Federal systems and cybersecurity practitioners discuss ideas on how to implement secure network automation in this exclusive executive briefing. Saturday's clashes were the most recent of several this year in the city as right-wing militants converged, met by counter-protesters, including members of anti-fascist, or "antifa," groups. City officials have struggled with striking a balance between free speech and keeping events from spiraling out of control. But on Saturday, some said police seemed to act mostly against those protesting the presence of the extreme-right demonstrators, using stun grenades and what appeared to be rubber bullets against them. ___ 6 p.m. Sunday Portland police were accused Sunday of being heavy-handed against people protesting a rally by extreme-right demonstrators, reportedly injuring some counter-protesters and prompting the city's new police chief to order a review of officers' use of force. Police in riot gear tried to keep the two groups apart, many of whom had come on Saturday dressed for battle in helmets and protective clothing. Dozens of the extreme-right protesters were bussed to Portland, one of America's most liberal cities, from nearby Vancouver, Washington. Contractors, it's not too early to plan for a government shutdown Saturday's clashes were the most recent of several this year in the city as right-wing militants converged, met by counter-protesters, including members of anti-fascist, or "antifa," groups. City officials have struggled with striking a balance between free speech and keeping events from spiraling out of control. But on Saturday, some said police seemed to act mostly against those protesting the presence of the extreme-right demonstrators, using stun grenades and what appeared to be rubber bullets against them. Police Chief Danielle Outlaw, who assumed command less than a year ago as Portland's first African-American female police chief, said in a statement Sunday she takes all use-of-force cases seriously. Outlaw directed the professional standards division to begin gathering evidence to determine if the force used was within policy and training guidelines. The Office of Independent Police Review will be provided with the information for review and investigation. ___ 8:50 p.m. Saturday The Portland Police Bureau says four people were arrested during rowdy protests between right-wing activists and self-described anti-fascists. The bureau says in a statement that officers also seized "multiple weapons throughout the day." The rally was organized by Joey Gibson, leader of right-wing leaning group Patriot Prayer. It drew hundreds of supporters and counter-protesters. ___ 2:55 p.m. A reporter for The Oregonian/OregonLive was injured when he was struck by a projectile during rowdy protests between right-wing activists and self-described anti-fascists in Portland. Eder Campuzano was bloodied Saturday afternoon but said in a Tweet published on the newspaper's website that he was "okay" and was going to get evaluated. Police deployed "flash bangs" and other devices to try to disperse the crowds. Authorities say demonstrators threw rocks and bottles at officers. The rally was organized by Joey Gibson, leader of right-wing leaning group Patriot Prayer. It has drawn hundreds of supporters and counter-protesters. __ 2:10 p.m. Police have deployed "flash bangs" and other devices to try to disperse crowds of right-wing activists and self-described anti-fascist counter-protesters in Portland, Oregon. The demonstrations Saturday drew hundreds and there was a heavy police presence as similar gatherings have turned violent. Just before 2 p.m. police ordered crowds to disperse, saying protesters had thrown rocks and bottles at officers. There were arrests, but it wasn't immediately clear how many. There was also debris left on the street by demonstrators. The rally organized by Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson was the third to roil Portland this summer. Two previous events ended in bloody fistfights and riots, and one counter-protester was sent to the hospital with a skull fracture. ___ 1:05 p.m. A right-wing activist who organized a rally in Portland, Oregon, that has also drawn counter-protests says the country is getting soft and leaders need to step up. Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson on Saturday says his group has the American spirit and will unapologetically stand up for what the group believes in. It's the group's third such rally in Portland, which has again drawn self-described anti-fascist counter-protesters. The two previous events resulted in violence. Portland police appear to be trying to head off any violence Saturday with a strong presence amid the hundreds of protesters and counter-protesters. Police in riot gear have confiscated items that could be used as a weapon. Police have also announced they will not respond to non-emergency calls in the city due to the demonstration in a Portland park. ___ 11:40 a.m. A right-wing group and self-described anti-fascist counter-protesters are rallying in Portland, Oregon, as police tried to prevent the gatherings from turning violent as they have before. The Saturday rally organized by Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson was the third to roil Portland this summer. Two previous events ended in bloody fistfights and riots, and one counter-protester was sent to the hospital with a skull fracture. This time, Gibson changed the venue from a federal plaza outside U.S. District Court to a waterfront park so some of his Oregon supporters can carry concealed weapons as they demonstrate. The Portland Police Bureau said that protesters should expect to see a significant police presence including bomb-sniffing dogs and checkpoints where weapon screenings will occur. ___ 10 a.m. Police in Portland, Oregon, say there will be "weapon screening locations" at the entrances to the site of a planned protest by a right-wing group. The protest by the Patriot Prayer organization is scheduled for mid-day Saturday at a Portland park and self-described anti-fascist counter-protesters are also rallying. Police promise a heavy presence as previous encounters between the two groups have turned violent. In a statement police said weapons may be seized if there is a violation of law and added that it is illegal in Portland to carry a loaded firearm in public unless a person has a valid Oregon concealed handgun license. Many protesters are expected to be from out of state. A broader counter-protest organized by a coalition of labor unions, immigrant rights groups and artists also will gather at City Hall. ___ 4:41 a.m. Police in Portland, Oregon, are preparing for clashes that could turn violent when a rally organized by a right-wing group is met with self-described anti-fascist counterprotesters. Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson says his followers will be bused to Portland Saturday with armed security and group members who will carry concealed guns. Gibson has staged several similar marches in the liberal city in recent months that have ended with people hospitalized and arrested. Gibson has said that he won't stop bringing his followers to Portland until they can express their right-wing views without interference. Self-described anti-fascists - or "antifa" - have been organizing to confront Patriot Prayer and an affiliated group known as the Proud Boys. A broader counter-protest organized by a coalition of labor unions, immigrant rights groups and artists also will gather at City Hall. Copyright C 2018 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, written or redistributed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 2416 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Tue Aug 21 15:11:14 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:11:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The poets often get here first - and so must be misinterpreted Message-ID: CIA: Coup Instigators Ass.? Colonial Imperial Assets? What's your CIA acronym? I am sure you have better ones. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 20, 2018 1:28 PMTo: Peace Discuss;Cc: peace;Subject:[Peace-discuss] The poets often get here first - and so must be misinterpreted https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/15/russiagate-and-the-men-with-glass-eyes/ ..Inept in leadership, inexpert in policy, Trump is merely an obstacle to the perpetuation of the capitalist imperialism on the neoliberal model so expertly guided by Barack Obama....Not capable of bringing real proof in an American court of law, corrupt as it is, Robert Mueller’s special counsel cleverly–or perhaps transparently–choose to indict Russians who will never see the inside of a North American courtroom, as well as a handful of Trumpian associates who he is able to convict for crimes uncovered in his borderless troll through Trump’s nefarious real estate backrooms, but which have nothing to do with the so-called “collusion” suspicion for which Mueller has been engaged. (Mueller had already proven his fealty to the deep state with his pathetic lies about Iraqi WMDs...)...the Democrats make a great theater out of exhibiting their all-consuming desire to “protect our democracy” a phrase that economically conveys two falsehoods in three words. It deserves a pri me time place in any definition of “two-faced” in Webster’s, or in the enumerated faults of neoliberal Democrats.Precedent Ignored...what have the Democrats and the intelligence agencies and their slavish media newsrooms and op-ed departments been doing unceasingly since even before the election: casting the sexist and racist character of the president in the starkest relief imaginable, then adding in the poison of treason to a cocktail of contempt, a trifecta of indictments that they believe will surely product the constitutional coup they hope for. Why? Not because they give a damn about democracy, since we don’t live in one and have long since abandoned the practice, if not the pretence, of democracy for plutocracy. We’ve done this on their own watch.No, the Democrats want Trump out because, still smiting from the embarrassment of their world-historical loss to the buffoon they hand-picked for an opponent, they are desperate to regain power. The effort is led by members of Congress Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein, Elijah Cummings, Jerrold Nadler, and others. They’ve cleverly aligned themselves outright with the intelligence and military community because they know the latter is likewise desperate to maintain the trajectory of American hegemony that has been in place since the end of World War Two. The intelligence front is led by former CIA lead and the godfather of Russiagate, John Brennan, who spied on Congress; and also former National Intelligence Director James Clapper, who wittingly lied to Congress about surveillance. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his ravenous gang of legal muckrakers lead the formal attempt to legitimate the fatuities of Russiagate.Add to these an ocean of MSM zealots like the Times' Charles Blow and MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow and CNN’s Wolf “Blitzkrieg” Blitzer. This loose confederacy of dunces have perfected the art of maintaining permanent crisis mode. This is precisely the same kind of vigilance w ith which the neoconservatives and its supplicant press corps maintained a perpetual state of alarm before George Bush doubled Bill Clinton’s record for Iraqi slaughter (+/- 1M to +/- 500k).Nobody seems to remember or know about the Church Committee from the 1970s, which uncovered the rank treachery of the CIA and its peer institutions. Nor do they recall how pliant and tractable some in their ranks were in the run-up to the worst war of the century in Iraq. Nor do they seem to recall the history of our foreign policy community and its biblical devotion to global dominion by any means necessary. They are no less zealous than the Zionists – a compliment of the highest order for true devotees of settler colonialism and imperial expansionists. You can follow the line of imperial thought from button-up imperialist “realists” George Kennan and Dean Acheson and John Foster Dulles, to the smug savagery of Henry Kissinger; then to the fell designs of Mackinder acolyte Zbigniew Brzez inksi, and all the way through to the Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle Project for a New American Century clan; then on to the empowered manias of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld; and straight through to the slightly more muted personas of Richard Gates and Ashton Carter, and finally on to the unhinged ravings of John Bolton. The Democrats now lionize these people....Democrats trust the intelligence agencies they’ve conspired with to regain power and work to hinder any efforts at peace the president makes in the meantime. This from a community that railed at “Republican obstructionism” and professes a commitment to peace in foreign policy. (Continue reading after you’ve pacified your howling derision.)Perhaps the only three decent decisions of Donald Trump since November 2016 have been:+ Meeting Kim Jong-un, a step dutifully ignored by all other administrations since the Korean War ended, and calling off the threatening and chest-thumping military drills that have helped rei nforce a paranoid government in Pyeongyang. In an emblematic instance of mainstream media coverage, the Washington Post (with its laughable masthead line, “Democracy Dies in Darkness”) breathlessly reported on “stunned” U.S. officials who “fretted” like brittle octogenarian grandmothers about meeting with such a duplicitous rogue nation. Naturally, “U.S. officials cautioned…” that we ought not to trust the DPRK after their littered past of broken promises. Of course, the paper forgets to note Washington’s own record of shifty deceits and dissembling guile. Much like The New York Times did yesterday when it professed faux concern over slaughtered children in Yemen without once mentioning the U.S. role facilitating that war.+ Efforts to warm relations with Moscow after the Obama administration rebooted the Cold War when the security state realized that fearmongering about Islamic terrorism was wearing thin on western publics. The subsequent reorientation of America n power against established powers rather than terrorist cliques flies in the face of Trump’s attempts to form positive alliances with Vladimir Putin over Syria, to bring Russia back into the G7, and to end the theatrics over alleged Russian government efforts to subvert the fake democratic process in the U.S. His sideline meetingswith Putin in Vietnam – behaving like a young teen trying to escape his parents’ watchful eye for sixty seconds – and their summit in Helsinki, perhaps the need for a formal summit being triggered by the intense efforts to keep the two leaders apart.+ Decision to quit funding terrorists in Syria, as the Obama administration did surreptitiously by diverting weapons deliveries through allies and by rebranding jihadists as “moderate rebels.”Democratic “obstructionism” in the form of Russiagate has foiled efforts to move forward on all three fronts, belying their professed distaste for both warmaking and partisanship....look at the history of A merican capitalism and its highest stage, imperialism, assess its motives, and call the present “defense of democracy” campaign for what it truly is: a slow-motion constitutional coup and a rapid-fire perception management master class. Our own founding father and slave-owner, the “author of America”, Thomas Jefferson, wrote this:“The most effectual engines for pacifying a nation are the public papers… A despotic government always keeps a kind of standing army of news-writers who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, invent and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.”Was he wrong? Greenblatt would have us believe the champions of justice and decency are making a heroic effort to defang a coming tyrant before he brings us to certain ruin. Please. Even Falstaff knew better than that. --Jason Hirthler , author of The Sins of Empire: Unmasking American Imperialism  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Tue Aug 21 15:11:14 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:11:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The poets often get here first - and so must be misinterpreted Message-ID: CIA: Coup Instigators Ass.? Colonial Imperial Assets? What's your CIA acronym? I am sure you have better ones. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 20, 2018 1:28 PMTo: Peace Discuss;Cc: peace;Subject:[Peace-discuss] The poets often get here first - and so must be misinterpreted https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/15/russiagate-and-the-men-with-glass-eyes/ ..Inept in leadership, inexpert in policy, Trump is merely an obstacle to the perpetuation of the capitalist imperialism on the neoliberal model so expertly guided by Barack Obama....Not capable of bringing real proof in an American court of law, corrupt as it is, Robert Mueller’s special counsel cleverly–or perhaps transparently–choose to indict Russians who will never see the inside of a North American courtroom, as well as a handful of Trumpian associates who he is able to convict for crimes uncovered in his borderless troll through Trump’s nefarious real estate backrooms, but which have nothing to do with the so-called “collusion” suspicion for which Mueller has been engaged. (Mueller had already proven his fealty to the deep state with his pathetic lies about Iraqi WMDs...)...the Democrats make a great theater out of exhibiting their all-consuming desire to “protect our democracy” a phrase that economically conveys two falsehoods in three words. It deserves a pri me time place in any definition of “two-faced” in Webster’s, or in the enumerated faults of neoliberal Democrats.Precedent Ignored...what have the Democrats and the intelligence agencies and their slavish media newsrooms and op-ed departments been doing unceasingly since even before the election: casting the sexist and racist character of the president in the starkest relief imaginable, then adding in the poison of treason to a cocktail of contempt, a trifecta of indictments that they believe will surely product the constitutional coup they hope for. Why? Not because they give a damn about democracy, since we don’t live in one and have long since abandoned the practice, if not the pretence, of democracy for plutocracy. We’ve done this on their own watch.No, the Democrats want Trump out because, still smiting from the embarrassment of their world-historical loss to the buffoon they hand-picked for an opponent, they are desperate to regain power. The effort is led by members of Congress Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein, Elijah Cummings, Jerrold Nadler, and others. They’ve cleverly aligned themselves outright with the intelligence and military community because they know the latter is likewise desperate to maintain the trajectory of American hegemony that has been in place since the end of World War Two. The intelligence front is led by former CIA lead and the godfather of Russiagate, John Brennan, who spied on Congress; and also former National Intelligence Director James Clapper, who wittingly lied to Congress about surveillance. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his ravenous gang of legal muckrakers lead the formal attempt to legitimate the fatuities of Russiagate.Add to these an ocean of MSM zealots like the Times' Charles Blow and MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow and CNN’s Wolf “Blitzkrieg” Blitzer. This loose confederacy of dunces have perfected the art of maintaining permanent crisis mode. This is precisely the same kind of vigilance w ith which the neoconservatives and its supplicant press corps maintained a perpetual state of alarm before George Bush doubled Bill Clinton’s record for Iraqi slaughter (+/- 1M to +/- 500k).Nobody seems to remember or know about the Church Committee from the 1970s, which uncovered the rank treachery of the CIA and its peer institutions. Nor do they recall how pliant and tractable some in their ranks were in the run-up to the worst war of the century in Iraq. Nor do they seem to recall the history of our foreign policy community and its biblical devotion to global dominion by any means necessary. They are no less zealous than the Zionists – a compliment of the highest order for true devotees of settler colonialism and imperial expansionists. You can follow the line of imperial thought from button-up imperialist “realists” George Kennan and Dean Acheson and John Foster Dulles, to the smug savagery of Henry Kissinger; then to the fell designs of Mackinder acolyte Zbigniew Brzez inksi, and all the way through to the Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle Project for a New American Century clan; then on to the empowered manias of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld; and straight through to the slightly more muted personas of Richard Gates and Ashton Carter, and finally on to the unhinged ravings of John Bolton. The Democrats now lionize these people....Democrats trust the intelligence agencies they’ve conspired with to regain power and work to hinder any efforts at peace the president makes in the meantime. This from a community that railed at “Republican obstructionism” and professes a commitment to peace in foreign policy. (Continue reading after you’ve pacified your howling derision.)Perhaps the only three decent decisions of Donald Trump since November 2016 have been:+ Meeting Kim Jong-un, a step dutifully ignored by all other administrations since the Korean War ended, and calling off the threatening and chest-thumping military drills that have helped rei nforce a paranoid government in Pyeongyang. In an emblematic instance of mainstream media coverage, the Washington Post (with its laughable masthead line, “Democracy Dies in Darkness”) breathlessly reported on “stunned” U.S. officials who “fretted” like brittle octogenarian grandmothers about meeting with such a duplicitous rogue nation. Naturally, “U.S. officials cautioned…” that we ought not to trust the DPRK after their littered past of broken promises. Of course, the paper forgets to note Washington’s own record of shifty deceits and dissembling guile. Much like The New York Times did yesterday when it professed faux concern over slaughtered children in Yemen without once mentioning the U.S. role facilitating that war.+ Efforts to warm relations with Moscow after the Obama administration rebooted the Cold War when the security state realized that fearmongering about Islamic terrorism was wearing thin on western publics. The subsequent reorientation of America n power against established powers rather than terrorist cliques flies in the face of Trump’s attempts to form positive alliances with Vladimir Putin over Syria, to bring Russia back into the G7, and to end the theatrics over alleged Russian government efforts to subvert the fake democratic process in the U.S. His sideline meetingswith Putin in Vietnam – behaving like a young teen trying to escape his parents’ watchful eye for sixty seconds – and their summit in Helsinki, perhaps the need for a formal summit being triggered by the intense efforts to keep the two leaders apart.+ Decision to quit funding terrorists in Syria, as the Obama administration did surreptitiously by diverting weapons deliveries through allies and by rebranding jihadists as “moderate rebels.”Democratic “obstructionism” in the form of Russiagate has foiled efforts to move forward on all three fronts, belying their professed distaste for both warmaking and partisanship....look at the history of A merican capitalism and its highest stage, imperialism, assess its motives, and call the present “defense of democracy” campaign for what it truly is: a slow-motion constitutional coup and a rapid-fire perception management master class. Our own founding father and slave-owner, the “author of America”, Thomas Jefferson, wrote this:“The most effectual engines for pacifying a nation are the public papers… A despotic government always keeps a kind of standing army of news-writers who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, invent and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.”Was he wrong? Greenblatt would have us believe the champions of justice and decency are making a heroic effort to defang a coming tyrant before he brings us to certain ruin. Please. Even Falstaff knew better than that. --Jason Hirthler , author of The Sins of Empire: Unmasking American Imperialism  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 11:46:32 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones Stephen Francis  The First Amendment and Censorship Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. Cultural Marxism and the deep state But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality".  That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists.  These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape.  The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh).  At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. | | | Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing | The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. | | | Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff | Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians.  Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. >From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." | | | William Lind, Donald Trump | Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx.  A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials.  But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. The Jewish QuestionIn the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press.  The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means.  It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective.Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. Sources: newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwhelbig at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 12:01:40 2018 From: rwhelbig at gmail.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 05:01:40 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies! It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown. There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government! Neither is Google/YouTube. Roger Helbig By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too. There really was a Holocaust. On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > > Stephen Francis > > > *The First Amendment and Censorship* > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a > vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the > major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All > sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts > of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, > neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of > their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who > see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make > this an issue are ongoing. > > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's > audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree > the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare > if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see > many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the > 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative > content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the > platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest > from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to > invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on > Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've > helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the > true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where > content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are > a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist > discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him > should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the > First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him > out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general > skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits > including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, > Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf > below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality > that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear > demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the > world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and > Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The > Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional > fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance > has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to > shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute > to this unveiling. > > > *Cultural Marxism and the deep state* > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but > inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the > core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is > branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying > scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males > among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups > like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of > being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this > case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through > infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power > and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing > is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this > full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of > desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen > member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being > Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, > and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's > 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should > be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent > clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' > aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the > Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a > search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, > nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a > soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: > 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The > pertinent paragraph is: > > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a > vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED > when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama > should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the > Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is > more in the game for retribution than equality". > > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important > proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major > university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism > hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist > Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are > either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 > Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to > immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel > if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar > Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a > cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural > destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase > for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism > rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early > 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for > their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at > Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It > clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the > political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM. Colin Kaepernick's > taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics > from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and > subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this > tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for > President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution > has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to > Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to > existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural > revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that > the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close > study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate > masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist > Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish > nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through > AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and > a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown > mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM > have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a > wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution > that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that > was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern > politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never > connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. > There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist > Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its > Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be > conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches > them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / > Russian revolution. > > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, > but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled > opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of > articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. > For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of > cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, > without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its > application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his > usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible > academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through > subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the > norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following > paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that > any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be > tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, > patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. > "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of > the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that > Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political > correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and > other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with > his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is > generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the > contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social > equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. > Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep > state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative > oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and > invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This > happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake > News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your > target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion > created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis). > Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank > steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully > branding the MSM as Fake News. It must be working because they've > validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major > news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish > Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership > controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of > Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about > it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his > since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is > inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish > (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is > led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' > probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that > controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at > the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely > defines his opposition to that cabal. > > *The Jewish Question* > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is > permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly > Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully > entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even > resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue > beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have > resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I > believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at > nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on > for centuries. > > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins > historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave > trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown > mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of > US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides > of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of > Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, > JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve > Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, > JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great > Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and > industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews > instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews > controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish > mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War > and their nuclear weapons program, Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs > (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets > for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, > Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews > created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship > with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, > they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled > banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To > suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly > concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously > cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this > perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the > first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the > entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman > is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw > Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed > themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian > America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian > Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western > culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier > manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the > Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's > Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the > tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 > 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling > industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & > Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the > last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. > Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. > Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most > egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of > peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will > continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, > where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, > Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and > frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of > Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit > the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of > horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't > attain their goals. > > Sources: > > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews > Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > *Stephen Francis *is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, > he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He > was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders > in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a > number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New > in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL > database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to > the domain name *ConspiracyCoin.io*. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 12:49:06 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative.Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo.  As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. thus the following Facebook excerpt. " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this."https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ violations  On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.   Roger Helbig By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/  Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones Stephen Francis  The First Amendment and Censorship Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. Cultural Marxism and the deep state But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality".  That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists.  These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape.  The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh).  At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. | | | Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing | The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. | | | Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff | Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians.  Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. >From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." | | | William Lind, Donald Trump | Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx.  A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials.  But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. The Jewish QuestionIn the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press.  The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means.  It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective.Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. Sources: newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 15:37:49 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:37:49 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Charisma and Banality: Kofi Annan and the UN Message-ID: *- www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org -*Charisma and Banality: Kofi Annan and the UNPosted By Binoy Kampmark On August 23, 2018 @ 1:35 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled Being the head of a creature essentially without spine, and, even more to the point, with vague form, must be something of a challenge. Part of the failing of the United Nations probably lies in its disparate existence, a scattered composition of bureaucratic entities that, when they come together, supply a perfect picture of inertia. (Perhaps for the best: a more active UN could well lead to a deeper muddying of waters.) Such an arrangement invariably leads to one conclusion: The organisation tends to mimic the power order of the day, compliant to the great states, malleable to their capriciousness. What matters on the day is what is legitimised. Kofi Annan’s time as Secretary General of the UN reflected the post-Cold War realignments of power. But unlike his predecessor, the oft prickly Boutros Boutros-Ghali, who gave the hagiographers little to go on, he cut a fine figure for fandom. He was soft-spoken, rarely got irate, proved so diplomatic as to reveal little. Certain works on Annan’s legacy have been flattering to the point of crawling. James Traub’s *The Best Intentions *(2007) gushes, telling readers of the “big smile and a roundhouse handshake”, “the gentle, kindly African with the silver goatee and the rueful, yellowing eyes”. Traub’s description of Annan was much like that of an infatuated groupie with eyes popping, enthused by a man who had made the UN office of Secretary General his own. “Kofi and [his wife] Nane, both enormously attractive and disarmingly modest, the one short and black the other tall and blonde, made for a dazzling couple: they projected a kind of moral glamour” (sic). Even more reserved assessments , such as that of Michael Ignatieff, hover over the issue of personality and disposition. Dire negotiations with dark characters were met by “a soothing temperament that became second nature early in his Ghanaian childhood.” He became “adept at circumspection and dealing with all sides, while keeping his own cards concealed.” That he appealed in company and proved pleasing to the eye hardly armours him against criticism. Annan presided over the UN during a time when the US imperium had lost any viable, containing foe, with no rivals to ruffle feathers; and it was an imperium that took a shining to the Ghanaian diplomat in encouraging his rise to the post of Secretary General in 1997. His amenability to US influence began early. The Ford Foundation noted him as an appropriate convert while still in Ghana, after which he found himself studying economics in Minnesota. The Carnegie Foundation then took an interest, sending him to a graduate institute in Geneva. The academic stripes were never earned, and Annan found himself on the bureaucratic track starting at the World Health Organisation. On the way, he snacked on doctrines of managerialism at MIT’s Sloan School of Management. It is worth noting that his time in the UN was very much passed as that of a bureaucrat ever keen to avoid anything disruptive. Stints in budgetary positions tend to have that effect. The call of power had to be heeded, and he wasn’t the one doing the calling. Those close to him soon realised how comfortable he felt with keeping the Washington line. His stint as chief of UN peacekeeping operations was marked by a few noteworthy moments that do not fit the hagiographer’s script. On receiving a desperate cable from Canada’s Lieutenant General Roméo Dallaire, in charge of UN forces in Rwanda in January 1994, Annan stonewalled with coolness. Daillaire’s request that he be given permission to raid Hutu arms caches as an effort to frustrate an unfolding genocide against the Tutsi population was fobbed off , an unnecessary deployment of UN resources. Diligently civil servant-like, Annan kept the Security Council in the dark as the corpses mounted. As Perry Anderson noted with characteristic bite, Annan played this cold concealment and reluctance to his advantage, claiming with insensitive banality that he was working in an organisation that was, at the time, “media-shy” and unsure on how best to use publicity. More should have been done, the media mobilised, attention drawn to the conflict. “Translated: don’t blame me, I’m the one who became media friendly.” Being masterful with media became a signature calling, and the unreflective social media adoration that has enveloped his memory suggests what the modern UN figurehead needs to do. Court the cameras; charm the trendy circles and push the trends; feign effectualness in the face of impotence. “Few people,” wrote Ignatieff in 2012, “have spent so much time around negotiating tables with thugs, warlords and dictators. He has made himself the world’s emissary on the dark side.” Praise, in the absence of analysis, has been effusive. *Forbes *called him the father of modern corporate sustainability. “A great son of Africa and a true global leader has passed away.” Other tributes on his legacy have been trite, admitting to the limits of diplomacy while suggesting he did change the order of global politics. He, explained an uncritical John J. Stremlau of the Carter Centre, “knew the UN system and its strengths and limitations better than anyone.” Despite his sketchy record when involved in the peacekeeping side of things, he would tell African leaders in 1997 that “human rights are African rights” and that, while the continent deserved external assistance, ultimate responsibility fell to its leaders. Stremlau’s account focuses on Annan the great chatterer, a regular at meetings of the Carnegie Commission on Preventing Conflicts, a person who “used policy relevant scholarship by teams of academics on a range of conflict prevention topics.” This is less the person of action than persistent, and continuous conversation – perhaps typical of UN practice and streaming babble – to identify and shape support within and without of the organisation “for more comprehensive efforts to prevent complex emergencies within states.” Others also attempt to pad out an essentially skimpy outline of actual changes that took place under his watch. Ignatieff offers a range that reads like resume enhancement without due evaluation: the UN Global Compact, the Millennium Development Goals, the Global AIDS Fund, the International Criminal Court, and that most troubling of notions, the “responsibility to protect”, which has merely been shown to be another variant of the traditional “right” to meddle. To that, Ignatieff might have added UN non-reform. The totality of Annan’s leadership was the totality of conversation and chairmanship, the activity of the meeting room, which can be confused with effective governance and the making of policy. Founding the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa, or being the chairman of Elders, founded by Nelson Mandela, can surely no more or less prestigious than any post-employment shoe-in, the gravy train rendered respectable? Such moves are designed less to change the world than profit from it. But that was his consummate skill: to seduce counterparts, woo detractors and court the public spectacle even as others made policy. Truly an appropriate winner, along with the organisation he represented chocked with its failures and mild successes, of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2001. Article printed from www.counterpunch.org: *https://www.counterpunch.org * URL to article: *https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/23/charisma-and-banality-kofi-annan-and-the-un/ * Click here to print. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Fri Aug 24 04:20:39 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 04:20:39 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: ICH: CIA Whistleblower: It Was A Failed Coup & MSM Covering Up Phony DOJ References: <1131143089994.1101581137416.1675408496.0.1382032JL.2002@scheduler.constantcontact.com> Message-ID: I can’t imagine more relevant and bracing articles than are listed in this issue of the Information Clearing House. —mkb Begin forwarded message: From: ICH Newsletter > Subject: ICH: CIA Whistleblower: It Was A Failed Coup & MSM Covering Up Phony DOJ Date: August 23, 2018 at 7:33:50 PM CDT To: mkb3 at mac.com Reply-To: emailtom at cox.net Having trouble viewing this email? Click here [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_left.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_fb.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_twit.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_linked.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_divider.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_more.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_drw_right.png] [http://img.constantcontact.com/ui/images1/shr_btn_like_sm.png] [Header] Not For Profit - For Justice 100% Non Commercial, Fearless, Forthright & Independent August 22/23, 2018 The Prophet - On Love Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself. But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires: To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night. To know the pain of too much tenderness. To be wounded by your own understanding of love; And to bleed willingly and joyfully. To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving; To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy; To return home at eventide with gratitude; And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips. Kahlil Gibran - http://www.katsandogz.com/onlove.html "We need time to dream, time to remember, and time to reach the infinite. Time to be". - Gladys Taber "Truth never damages a cause that is just." - Mahatma Gandhi Fundraiser Update [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/media-con.JPG] [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/media-con2.JPG] Information Clearing House is one of the webs only truly independent sources of news and opinion. 157 ICH supporters have made a donation, (Thank you) we need another 293 people to help us continue and grow this service Our website and newsletter ( more than 100,000 sent daily ) is free to readers but is not free to produce. If you value Independent media and have intended to make a contribution, let me say that now is the time to do so. No advertising, no corporate sponsorship, We rely on YOU. Please help - Act now! Click the link below Please provide whatever you can- $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100- To Use your debit/credit card or check click here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/support.htm or if you prefer to send a check or money order, Information Clearing House, PO Box 365 Imperial Beach, CA 91933. USA. Low income readers: DON'T send money, just encourage others to subscribe. To all who have assisted in the past. Thank you. Your help is greatly appreciated. Peace and Joy. Tom Feeley Op-Ed The American Scream By Finian Cunningham [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/TRUMP-AND-CO.JPG] There are no good guys in this squalid drama of American politics. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50107.htm ====== The Brennan-Rosenstein-Mueller-Comey-Presstitute Witch Hunt By Paul Craig Roberts [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/Brennan-Rosenstein-Mueller.JPG] The US military/security complex will not permit any normalization of relations with Russia. Period. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50109.htm ====== What the Brennan Affair Really Reveals By Stephen F. Cohen [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/brennan-1.JPG] Brennan's charge would suggest that Trump should be removed from the presidency urgently by any means, even a coup.. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50110.htm ====== CIA Whistleblower: It Was A Failed Coup & MSM Covering Up Phony DOJ Dossier By Mac Slavo [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/TRUMP-FLAG-BURNING.JPG] The FBI and CIA counter-intelligence even placed an agent inside the Trump campaign."http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50112.htm ====== Why We Fight An Inside Look at the Anatomy of the American War Machine Video [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/us-runs-on-war.JPG] "What are we fighting for? Why do we bury our sons and fathers in lonely graves far from home?"http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8494.htm ====== Gaza Without Cancer Medicine as Haley Blames Arabs for Washington's Sins By Ramzy Baroud [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/haley-israel.JPG] The primary reason for the subjugation of the Palestinian people is the continued US support for Israel.http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50108.htm ====== "What's Happening To Corbyn Is A Trial Run For Bernie Sanders" By Professor Norman Finklestein And George Galloway [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/CORBYN-APARTHEID-ISRAEL.JPG] The Jewish community, is now publicly mobilizing against Corbyn: "It has moved out of the shadows and into the glare." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50105.htm ====== Julian Assange and the Fate of Journalism By Lawrence Davidson [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/STOP-ATTACKS-ON-JOURNALISTS.JPG] One might ask just how seriously "the public" wants a media that tells them "the truth." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50106.htm ====== That Facebook Will Turn to Censoring the Left Isn't a Worry-It's a Reality By Alan MacLeod [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/FACEBOOK-FINGER.JPG] The Russian fake news scandal has provided media monopolies an avenue to try to reassert control over the means of communication. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50111.htm Hard News At least 31 civilians, mostly children, killed in another Saudi-led airstrike in Yemen's Hudaydah https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/08/23/572045/Yemen-Saudi-Arabia-Hudaydah-Durayhimi-airstrike-children A country on the brink: millions starve in war-torn Yemen https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yemen-war-famine-starvation-cholera-children-mukalla-alqaeda-houthis-gulf-a8505156.html Iraq: Seven Islamic State members killed in army airstrike in Salahuddin https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/seven-islamic-state-members-killed-in-army-airstrike-in-salahuddin/ Five Islamic State members killed while booby-trapping road, west of Anbar https://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/five-islamic-state-members-killed-while-booby-trapping-road-west-of-anbar/ Syria's al-Qaeda leader vows to fight on in rebel province https://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2018/Aug-22/460925-syrias-al-qaeda-leader-vows-to-fight-on-in-rebel-province.ashx Russia says tens of thousands of its troops fought in Syria https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-tens-thousands-troops-fought-syria-57332919 Moscow calls on Washington to fulfill int'l obligations and withdraw forces from Syria https://sana.sy/en/?p=145280 The setup: White Helmets help Nusra terrorists stage chemical attack in Syria's Idlib: Report: The Western-backed White Helmets, are coordinating with terrorist groups to stage a chemical attack in Idlib province and accuse the Syrian Arab Army of using chemical weapons, a report says. https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/08/23/572023/Syria-White-Helmets-Idlib-chemical-attack-Nusra-terrorists-US Bolton: US to act 'very strongly' if Syria uses chemical arms https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/bolton-act-strongly-syria-chemical-arms-180822081216464.html An act of war: US ready to drive Iranian oil exports to zero, says US national security adviser https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/22/us-ready-to-drive-iranian-oil-exports-to-zero-says-us-national-security-adviser EU Earmarks $20Mln for Iran in Effort to Offset US Sanctions https://sputniknews.com/europe/201808231067417304-eu-iran-aid/ British Airways, Air France to suspend flights to Iran https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5334091,00.html Netanyahu welcomes airlines decision not to fly to Iran https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5334184,00.html Israeli Minister: Israel is investing in Diaspora Jewish education propaganda so Jews worldwide will 'embrace Zionism' https://israelpalestinenews.org/israeli-minister-israel-is-investing-in-diaspora-jewish-education-so-jews-worldwide-will-embrace-zionism/? In case you missed it; The Lobby: Young Friends of Israel: Al Jazeera goes undercover inside the Israel Lobby in Britain. We expose a campaign to infiltrate and influence youth groups. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46210.htm Palestine; A 'creeping annexation' of identity, culture, history and memory https://www.opendemocracy.net/north-africa-west-asia/piergiuseppe-parisi/creeping-annexation-of-identity-culture-history-and-memor Watch; 1948 "The birth of a new specimen of human being": On 14 May 1948 the Zionist state of Israel declared itself to be in existence. Before and after that event most of the Arabs of Palestine were dispossessed of their land and their rights. How did it happen? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92B1rnEg4g Official says militants kill 4 in Libya checkpoint attack http://www.startribune.com/official-says-militants-kill-4-in-libya-checkpoint-attack/491538181/ Trump Misleads Again With Claim of South Africa Farm Murders https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-23/trump-misleads-again-with-claim-of-south-africa-farm-murders? Donald Trump's land seizures tweet sparks anger in South Africa https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/23/trump-orders-close-study-of-south-africa-farmer-killings 3 police officers killed in attacks in Afghanistan http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-08/23/c_137413281.htm Taliban accepts Russian invitation to talks; Afghan government declines https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-afghanistan-taliban/taliban-accepts-russian-invitation-to-talks-afghan-government-declines-idUSKCN1L71AK Unidentified helicopters delivering arms to militants in Afghanistan - Moscow https://www.rt.com/newsline/436666-helicopters-arms-militants-afghanistan/ Roadside bomb kills Pakistani soldier near Afghan border https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/roadside-bomb-kills-pakistani-soldier-afghan-border-57355502 Ukraine : Five soldiers killed in clashes in east https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45287889 Gunfight across the street from Russian Foreign Ministry caught on CCTV (GRAPHIC VIDEO) https://www.rt.com/news/436692-gunfight-police-central-moscow/ Putin: Deep State Behind Counterproductive & Meaningless Sanctions Against Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpRy2da861k Putin - Russia must strengthen its military infrastructure: - NATO is moving its military infrastructure closer to the Russian border and Russia needs to strengthen its own infrastructure in response, President Vladimir Putin said https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-russia-finland-summit-nato/putin-russia-must-strengthen-its-military-infrastructure-due-to-nato-idUKKCN1L71GJ?il=0 State Dept Warns of Possible Sanctions on Any Country Purchasing Russia's S-400 https://sputniknews.com/us/201808231067426608-usa-state-department-threatens-s-400-turkey-sanctions/ Lithuania says it will not appeal European court ruling over CIA torture jail https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/lithuania-says-will-not-appeal-european-court-ruling-over-cia-torture-jail/ BBC under fire over conflict of interest in Corbyn anti-Semitism row https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180823-bbc-under-fire-over-conflict-of-interest-in-corbyn-anti-semitism-row/ Reality Winner: NSA contractor jailed for five years over classified report leak https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/23/reality-winner-sentence-classified-report-leak The Government's Argument that Reality Winner Harmed National Security Doesn't Hold Up. Here's Why. https://theintercept.com/2018/08/23/reality-winner-sentenced-leak-election-hacking/ Statement on the Sentencing of Whistleblower Reality Winner for Disclosing NSA Report on Russian Election Hacking https://theintercept.com/2018/08/23/reality-winner-sentenced-nsa-russia-election-hacking/ Facebook is Filtering Out News That Doesn't Bolster US Foreign Policy: Facebook has shed any pretense of neutrality in handling political information concerning the foreign https://www.mintpressnews.com/facebook-censoring-news/248136/ US Sanctions Shut Down 'The Empire Files' with Abby Martin; As a result of US sanctions against Venezuela, The Empire Files has been forced to completely shut down operations. http://mediaroots.org/us-sanctions-shut-down-the-empire-files-with-abby-martin/ Lanny Davis: Michael Cohen Never Went To Prague As Steele Dossier Claims http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/22/lanny-davis-michael-cohen-prague/ Michael Cohen has information 'of interest' to Mueller: lawyer; Cohen has "information ... regarding both knowledge of a conspiracy to corrupt American democracy by the Russians and the failure to report that knowledge to the FBI", Davis told MSNBC. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/michael-cohen-information-interest-mueller-lawyer-180822143810961.html New York Investigators Subpoena Michael Cohen for Documents Linked to Trump Foundation https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/nyregion/michael-cohen-subpoena-trump-foundation-new-york.html Trump says 'flipping' in criminal cases should be illegal and warns against impeachment https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/23/trump-michael-cohen-flipping-should-be-illegal-warns-against-impeachment Trump says 'everybody would be very poor' if he's impeached https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/trump-impeachment-democrats-congress/index.html Don't hold your breath - Trump will not be impeached : Neither lying about sex nor paying off a mistress is illegal, and neither is the sort of thing likely to get Democrats or Republicans to turn against their leader. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/22/dont-hold-breath-left-wingers-trump-will-not-impeached/ Jeff Sessions fires back at Trump: DOJ won't 'be improperly influenced' by politics https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/23/jeff-sessions-pushes-back-against-trump-actions-of-doj-will-not-be-improperly-influenced-by-political-considerations.html Senate wall of support for Sessions splinters; As the president renewed his attacks on his attorney general, two Senate Republicans indicated they'd be open to replacing him https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/23/jeff-sessions-senate-support-republican-leaders-trump-794870 National Enquirer boss and longtime Trump friend David Pecker gets federal immunity in Michael Cohen case https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/23/national-enquirer-david-pecker-told-prosecutors-trump-knew-of-cohen-payments-report.html Rep. Duncan Hunter and his wife indicted in use of campaign funds for personal expenses: The charges of wire fraud, falsifying records, campaign finance violations and conspiracy https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/21/politics/duncan-hunter-campaign-charges/index.html SWAMP. Claire McCaskill's Family Made Over $131 MILLION in Govt. Subsidies Since She's Been in DC https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/swamp-claire-mccaskills-family-made-over-130-million-in-govt-subsidies-since-shes-been-in-dc/ Attempt to break into Democratic Party voter data thwarted http://ktar.com/story/2186951/democratic-official-dnc-stopped-hack-attempt-of-voter-file/ But wait! Democrats say hack alert was false alarm https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber/democrats-say-hack-alert-was-false-alarm-idUSKCN1L81MH U.S. economy expected to slow, damaged by trade war: Economists https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-poll/u-s-economy-set-to-slow-from-here-on-damaged-by-trade-war-poll-idUSKCN1L800K Peace and Joy Tom Feeley Cost Of War Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,455,590" Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In America's War On Iraq: 4,801 Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan : 3,430 Total Cost of Wars Since 2001 $4,602,610,690,998 https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/? Quick Links... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Our Website More About Us Contact Information ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phone:San Diego USA 619-407-7054 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Join Our Mailing List] Information Clearing House, Po Box 365, Imperial Beach, CA 91933 SafeUnsubscribe™ mkb3 at mac.com Forward this email to a friend | Update Profile | About our service provider Sent by emailtom at cox.net in collaboration with [Constant Contact] Try it free today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From divisek at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 14:50:47 2018 From: divisek at yahoo.com (Dianna Visek) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:50:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Let's Bypass the Social Media Purge, Shadowbans, Algorithms, Filters... In-Reply-To: <3a5a3fb1ad250e247bde9f42d.2cb8a7a8a7.20180825140030.a91c171ef3.f35924b8@mail140.atl271.mcdlv.net> References: <3a5a3fb1ad250e247bde9f42d.2cb8a7a8a7.20180825140030.a91c171ef3.f35924b8@mail140.atl271.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: <1757181773.2987715.1535208647995@mail.yahoo.com> Let's Bypass the Social Media Purge, Shadowbans, Algorithms, Filters... | | | | BYPASS THE PURGE, ALGORITHMS, SHADOWBANS, FILTERS… | | | | | | The whole "social media purge" is pretty major and has me thinking about some solutions for us here at the TAC. Some people want you to believe that "deplatforming" from major social media websites is about one person’s “extreme” views. Or it’s about silencing conservatives. Or it’s about “fake news,” or Russia!!  Or, various other theories. But it’s much bigger - and more dangerous - than any of those on their own.  I’ve been putting a lot of thought into this - and what TAC needs to do to remain strong and growing in a future where our message will be more and more under attack. First - a few points, in my opinion:  - It’s not just social media. It’s the banking system, too. A statewide candidate got her Wells Fargo account closed because she advocated for medical marijuana in Florida, and received donations from marijuana industry lobbyists.  The banking system loves the federal government - and the feds hate it when states and people do things without their permission. (I covered this in a recent episode of my new Good Morning Liberty show)   - Alternative platforms are getting squeezed. An hopeful competitor to youtube - bitchute - had their credit card processing cancelled by Stripe. They were told about a “financial partner” that pressured this to happen. I covered this in the same episode linked above.   - I believe each case is a test to do even more Deplatforming one voice that is unpopular with the mainstream general public is really a test run, in my opinion. If people turn a blind eye to one person or business being shut down, it just means that there’s going to be pressure to do even more.  BYPASS THE PURGE, ALGORITHMS, SHADOWBANS, FILTERS… Our website traffic from ALL social media is just about 10% - which is really low compared to a lot of newer websites - and that’s a good thing.  If we got kicked off all those platforms, it would be a hit but it wouldn’t kill us. But we want you to be able to get our information - and email isn’t the best option either, as deliverability is getting hampered by major companies like google and apple too. While it might seem a little outdated to some, RSS feeds are a great way to get around all the ways they block you from getting our content.    **This is our main feed link - get it, use it, share it! http://feeds.feedburner.com/tacdailydigest | | | | | | | | Basically, you just take our RSS url and add it to your own RSS feed reader (there are a ton of free ones, I personally use feedly) Then you can easily stay on top of all our posts. You can get notifications, read them when you want, where you want.  You can save and share them - as you want.  Not as the tech giants tell you. At the end of the day, it’s essential for us to build self-reliance. However, we also need to be thinking about our ability to host our website, process transactions and receive donations and get our emails sent out and received. Any or all of these providers could cut us off at anytime. I’ve been looking at other platforms like bitchute, real.video, minds, gab, steemit, coinbase commerce and others - and I’d love any suggestions you might have. HELP US OUT? The only way we can continue our work for the Constitution and liberty is through your support - be it in spreading the word by sharing our information or grabbing that RSS feed and using it often, or by donating to help us pay the bills and even expand by reaching more and more new people. You can set up a TAC membership for as little as 2 bucks a month.  Thank you so much for any consideration you can give to becoming a member today!  https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/members  If you prefer a one-time donation - we accept credit card, you can mail a check, or use cryptocurrencies, visit this link to get all the info: https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/donate EVENTS  After a bit of a hiatus, I’ve recently decided to start speaking at some conferences and meetings again. Last fall, my great friend Tom Woods invited me to be a part of his 1000th episode event in Florida. I spoke at a big liberty event in New Orleans this summer, and will be speaking at events in LA and Dallas in the coming months. If you’d like to book me to speak to your group, drop me a line.  Thank you so much for reading and your support! Concordia res parvae crescunt, (small things grow great by concord)   Michael Boldin Tenth Amendment Center 213.935.0553 | | | | | | Copyright © 2018 Tenth Amendment Center, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you opted in at our website - www.tenthamendmentcenter.com Our mailing address is: Tenth Amendment CenterP.O. Box 13458Los Angeles, CA 90013 Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. | | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sat Aug 25 19:14:43 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 19:14:43 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?There_is_a_new_=E2=80=9CIran_War_Group?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=9D_in_government?= References: <93c5-a17-5b819832@list.winwithoutwar.org> Message-ID: <8995A61B-24C3-4D83-814F-A35AB9B66038@illinois.edu> From: Erica Fein > Subject: There is a new “Iran War Group” in government Date: August 25, 2018 Pompeo just added a whole new level to Trump’s Iran Regime Change Army. [Win Without War] Hello Ron, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is building Trump’s Iran regime change army [1]. Pompeo’s newly-appointed “Iran Action Group” sounds like bureaucracy as usual. In reality, it's anything but. Pompeo just appointed a bunch of people to formal positions in the U.S. government whose job is regime change in Iran. And what’s even scarier? They’re not the only ones. This new agency is just one small piece of a large and powerful Iran-regime-change industry within U.S. government, media, and think tanks. Win Without War has been taking on this industry for years. We’ve got the expertise, stubbornness, and grassroots power to expose the truth about Pompeo’s new regime change buddies and neutralize the lies they’re pumping out to build the case for war with Iran. But we need your help to foil their plans before they can drag us into a devastating war with Iran. Donate $4 to fuel Win Without War’s work against the Iran regime change industry today. If you've stored your info with ActBlue, we'll process your contribution instantly: $4 $6 $8 $12 $16 Other amount Trump’s foreign policy on Iran is paving a clear path from killing the Iran Deal to sparking a war with Iran. And the “Iran Action Group”—better named Iran War Group—is only offering more sanctions that isolate the U.S. economically and politically, without reducing Iran’s destructive militarist presence in the region one bit. Exactly 65 years ago, the United States and the United Kingdom overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran after he nationalized the Iranian oil industry away from British control. It's no accident that Pompeo announced his new regime change buddies on the very anniversary of that coup d’etat. The United States’ reckless determination to destabilize Iran was disastrous then, and it’s disastrous now. There is a clear alternative to war with Iran: Diplomacy. That’s why Win Without War will continue stopping the colossal industry dedicated to Iranian regime change. We’ll expose Iran-hawk faux-experts in the media, we’ll pressure Congress to speak out against sanctions, and we’ll hold public events advocating for non-military solutions for U.S.-Iran relations. We are using every tactic at our disposal to stop the powerful Iran War Group before Trump’s next deadline to re-impose sanctions this fall. And we need your support. Make a gift today to help drive Win Without War's work for peaceful U.S-Iranian relations this fall. Thank you for working for peace, Erica, Ben, Cassandra, and the Win Without War team --- [1] CBS News, "Mike Pompeo forms "Iran Action Group" for post-nuclear deal policy" [https://act.winwithoutwar.org/o.gif?akid=2583.37829.1PaPg-] Donate [Like on Facebook] [Follow on Twitter] Win Without War is a project of the Center for International Policy. 1 Thomas Circle NW, Suite 700, Washington, DC 20005 (202) 232-3317 | info at winwithoutwar.org This email was sent to r-szoke at illinois.edu. Email is the most important way for us to reach you about opportunities to act. If you'd like to receive fewer mailings, click here. If you need to remove yourself from our email list, click here to unsubscribe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Sun Aug 26 21:10:54 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 21:10:54 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?America=E2=80=99s_Never-Ending_Culture_?= =?utf-8?q?War?= Message-ID: <5E500C35-ECC2-4B00-8D61-73F303F63862@illinois.edu> From The New York Times: America’s Never-Ending Culture War The issues that drove protesters to Chicago in 1968 are still motivating our partisan divide, 50 years later. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/opinion/sunday/chicago-protests-1968-culture-war.html From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 01:08:12 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 20:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren Message-ID: See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren Peter Van Buren Posted onAugust 26, 2018 It’ll always be too soon, won’t it? Glorifying McCain as a war hero allows us to imagine away the sins of Vietnam by making ourselves the victim. He encouraged unjust war in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and more as a cornerstone of his career. When given the chance, he sold out and took Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate, enabling a change in the GOP and political discourse we are still paying for and he is responsible. As a victim himself of torture, McCain stood mostly silent when America tortured, finally mouthing some mild public platitudes while allowing the coverup to hide what we did. The American public knows 10x as much about McCain’s own torture as we do about what was done by American torturers to other human beings. Honor is not allowing torturers to go unpunished. Duty is not helping a coverup. Country deserves better from someone who knows better. McCain allowed himself/profited from becoming a symbol and a myth. He positioned himself as a maverick and independent while towing the imperialist line for decades. I respect the things he endured as a prisoner. But his is a public life such that one can’t separate the individual out from the larger story at this point. I understand it is catechism to say only nice things when someone passes, but as long as people are going to turn McCain into something he wasn’t it seems useful to speak a little full-spectrum truth alongside that. I’m sorry for his family, but the America he claimed to serve is served better by the truth than another politicized shadow of the truth. *McCain with Ambassador Chris Stevens, killed in Benghazi. McCain died with that blood on his hands.* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Mon Aug 27 03:00:57 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 03:00:57 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <190C1F0E-FFD2-46AF-9E59-EA4B30935374@illinois.edu> Yes, a rather disgusting homage by most of our media to this man. Well stated. On Aug 26, 2018, at 8:08 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren Peter Van Buren Posted onAugust 26, 2018 It’ll always be too soon, won’t it? Glorifying McCain as a war hero allows us to imagine away the sins of Vietnam by making ourselves the victim. He encouraged unjust war in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and more as a cornerstone of his career. When given the chance, he sold out and took Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate, enabling a change in the GOP and political discourse we are still paying for and he is responsible. As a victim himself of torture, McCain stood mostly silent when America tortured, finally mouthing some mild public platitudes while allowing the coverup to hide what we did. The American public knows 10x as much about McCain’s own torture as we do about what was done by American torturers to other human beings. Honor is not allowing torturers to go unpunished. Duty is not helping a coverup. Country deserves better from someone who knows better. McCain allowed himself/profited from becoming a symbol and a myth. He positioned himself as a maverick and independent while towing the imperialist line for decades. I respect the things he endured as a prisoner. But his is a public life such that one can’t separate the individual out from the larger story at this point. I understand it is catechism to say only nice things when someone passes, but as long as people are going to turn McCain into something he wasn’t it seems useful to speak a little full-spectrum truth alongside that. I’m sorry for his family, but the America he claimed to serve is served better by the truth than another politicized shadow of the truth. [https://www.antiwar.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/mccain-in-libya-with-amb-stevens.jpg]McCain with Ambassador Chris Stevens, killed in Benghazi. McCain died with that blood on his hands. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmedina67 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 04:51:32 2018 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 23:51:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5b838356.1c69fb81.c10b5.69e0@mx.google.com> Thanks. Now I feel better. I was getting pretty tired of listening to the media go on and on.  - Karen Medina"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain -------- Original message --------From: David Green via Peace-discuss Date: 8/26/18 20:08 (GMT-06:00) To: "Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net)" Subject: [Peace-discuss] See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van BurenPeter Van Buren Posted onAugust 26, 2018It’ll always be too soon, won’t it?Glorifying McCain as a war hero allows us to imagine away the sins of Vietnam by making ourselves the victim. He encouraged unjust war in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and more as a cornerstone of his career.When given the chance, he sold out and took Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate, enabling a change in the GOP and political discourse we are still paying for and he is responsible.As a victim himself of torture, McCain stood mostly silent when America tortured, finally mouthing some mild public platitudes while allowing the coverup to hide what we did. The American public knows 10x as much about McCain’s own torture as we do about what was done by American torturers to other human beings. Honor is not allowing torturers to go unpunished. Duty is not helping a coverup. Country deserves better from someone who knows better.McCain allowed himself/profited from becoming a symbol and a myth. He positioned himself as a maverick and independent while towing the imperialist line for decades. I respect the things he endured as a prisoner. But his is a public life such that one can’t separate the individual out from the larger story at this point. I understand it is catechism to say only nice things when someone passes, but as long as people are going to turn McCain into something he wasn’t it seems useful to speak a little full-spectrum truth alongside that.I’m sorry for his family, but the America he claimed to serve is served better by the truth than another politicized shadow of the truth.McCain with Ambassador Chris Stevens, killed in Benghazi. McCain died with that blood on his hands. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Aug 27 11:48:42 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj at pigs.ag) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 19:48:42 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?q?See_Ya=2C_John_=28McCain=29_by_Peter_Va?= =?utf-8?q?n_Buren?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20180827114843.30005.qmail@station188.com> I really disliked McCain. He did tell a truly funny joke about Chelsea Clinton and seemed to get away with it but I can't say that I ever liked McCain. I dont have the opinion that being a warmongering hotdog and wrecking a few jets makes one a hero. I didn't like the way he voted and never considered him to be a Republican in any real sense. He could have fit right in with Bill and Hillary as far I was concerned. He was pro-war not pro-defense and he was just plain mean and contemptible. A lot of people wanted a mean and contemptible president in 2008. They shouldn't have been disappointed much. Although not as overtly mean Obama was certainly contemptible and if not really mean, at least dastardly. I did consider walking over and doing a Who's Next on McCains parachutists monument when I was last in Hanoi but I considered it too much trouble even though it was a only a short walk away and I had a nearly full bladder. I met some people from Alaska once who said they liked Sarah Palin but I never met anyone who said they liked John McCain. > -------Original Message------- > From: David Green via Peace-discuss > To: Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net) > Subject: [Peace-discuss] See Ya, John (McCain) by Peter Van Buren > Sent: Aug 27 '18 09:08 > > SEE YA, JOHN (MCCAIN) BY PETER VAN BUREN > > Peter Van Buren Posted onAugust 26, 2018 > > It’ll always be too soon, won’t it? > > Glorifying McCain as a war hero allows us to imagine away the sins of > Vietnam by making ourselves the victim. He encouraged unjust war in > Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and more as a cornerstone of his career. > > When given the chance, he sold out and took Sarah Palin as his Vice > Presidential running mate, enabling a change in the GOP and political > discourse we are still paying for and he is responsible. > > As a victim himself of torture, McCain stood mostly silent when > America tortured, finally mouthing some mild public platitudes while > allowing the coverup to hide what we did. The American public knows > 10x as much about McCain’s own torture as we do about what was done > by American torturers to other human beings. Honor is not allowing > torturers to go unpunished. Duty is not helping a coverup. Country > deserves better from someone who knows better. > > McCain allowed himself/profited from becoming a symbol and a myth. He > positioned himself as a maverick and independent while towing the > imperialist line for decades. I respect the things he endured as a > prisoner. But his is a public life such that one can’t separate the > individual out from the larger story at this point. I understand it is > catechism to say only nice things when someone passes, but as long as > people are going to turn McCain into something he wasn’t it seems > useful to speak a little full-spectrum truth alongside that. > > I’m sorry for his family, but the America he claimed to serve is > served better by the truth than another politicized shadow of the > truth._McCain with Ambassador Chris Stevens, killed in Benghazi. > McCain died with that blood on his hands._ > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 17:11:04 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 12:11:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Important Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For what it's worth, the NYT does have this article, taken from an "objective" moral distance: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/world/middleeast/un-saudi-airstrike-yemen-children.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer But of course no genuine context about the source of the problem. On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 8:56 AM Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Sorry to ruin your day folks with news that you won’t get from mainstream > media, I know this isn’t the kind of announcements you want to hear. One > would think being on the Peace List, you would want to know of the lack of > peace in our world today, especially at the hands of our own government. > After all, you can get news of local get togethers to celebrate something > or other, elsewhere in the community. > > > > - Print > > - Leaflet > > - Feedback > > - Share » > > US-backed Saudi air strikes massacre dozens of Yemeni children for second > time in two weeks By Jordan Shilton > 27 August 2018 > > At least 22 children and four women were killed by Saudi air strikes in > Yemen on Thursday as the US-backed coalition continues its onslaught on the > port city of Hodeidah and surrounding areas. The latest atrocities came > just two weeks after a Saudi aircraft dropped an American-supplied bomb on > a school bus in the northern town of Dahyan, killing 40 children and > injuring more than 50. > > According to reports from a news network aligned with the Houthi rebels, > the first Saudi air strike hit a camp for internally displaced people > (IDPS) in Duraihami, killing five people and injuring two. Then, in an act > of cold-blooded murder that has become the hallmark of the Saudi air war in > the impoverished country, an aircraft struck a group of 26 women and > children trying to flee the scene of the earlier air strike by bus. > > The Saudi-led coalition sought to justify the bombing by claiming that the > rebels fired a ballistic missile from the area earlier in the day. In > reality, the indiscriminate targeting of civilians is nothing new. > According to data compiled by al-Jazeera and the Yemen Data Project, around > one third of the 16,000 Saudi air strikes on Yemen since March 2015 have > hit civilian targets. These have included weddings, water treatment plants, > hospitals and electricity plants. > > As with every air strike launched by the Saudis and their allies, which > bear responsibility for the vast majority of the tens of thousands of > civilian deaths caused by the bloody three-year-long conflict, the two > strikes Thursday would not have occurred without the support of the United > States. US military personnel operate a joint headquarters with their Saudi > counterparts in Riyadh for intelligence sharing, regularly refuel Saudi > jets in midair so they can continue their murderous raids, and supply the > reactionary dictatorship with billions of dollars worth of bombs and other > military equipment. Analyses of contracts between US defence contractors > and Riyadh indicate that $90 billion in military equipment was sold to > Riyadh by the US between 2010 and 2015. > > Just one week prior to the latest massacre, research published by CNN > revealed that the 500-pound bomb dropped by Saudi aircraft on a school bus > on 9 August was manufactured by Lockheed Martin, the US' largest defence > contractor. It was supplied to the Saudi air force in a munitions deal > approved by the State Department after former Secretary of State Rex > Tillerson lifted restrictions on supplying precision-guided arms shipments > to Riyadh in march 2017. > > Washington's support for Riyadh's near-genocidal assault on the Yemeni > population was initiated by the Obama administration in March 2015. It has > been intensified over the past year, including with the deployment of US > special forces on the ground to call in air strikes, and a dramatic > increase in the number of air strikes launched directly by the US in Yemen. > These attacks, ostensibly directed against Al-Qaeda in the Arabian > Peninsula and ISIS forces, saw a five-fold increase to over 130 in 2017. > > Responding to the latest attack, United Nations officials renewed the > organization's demand, issued following the August 9 school bus bombing, > for an independent inquiry into the latest round of atrocities. Mark > Lowcock, the UN's top relief official, declared that there was no doubt of > Riyadh's responsibility for Thursday's twin attacks. > > The bombing is part of the Saudi-led coalition's brutal offensive, > relaunched in early July in close collaboration with Washington, to take > the port city of Hodeidah, which Houthi rebels have held since 2014. The > port remains one of the few lifelines through which aid can pass into the > war-ravaged country. The siege of the city is causing aid organisations to > fear that 8 million Yemenis, more than a third of the population, could be > left without food. > > Horrendous war crimes like those carried out on Thursday and in the school > bus attack are a regular occurrence. On 2 August, at least 60 people were > killed and over 130 injured after a fish market in Hodeidah was bombed. > Meanwhile, Middle East Eye reported on 16 August that residents of the town > of Duraihami, some 20 kilometres south of Hodeidah, had been stranded in > their houses for days as Saudi forces and mercenaries carried out an > offensive against the city to retake it from the Houthis. > > “There are some people that have bled to death [in the street] and no one > dared to help them because of the clashes. Some corpses have decayed in the > streets,” Ahmed Mubarak, a Duraihami resident, told Middle East Eye. “The > town lives under siege, and also we are under siege inside our houses, as > the snipers in the city from both sides kill anyone who leaves his house to > the street.” > > On Friday, Human Rights Watch (HRW) released a 90-page report accusing the > Saudi-United Arab Emirates alliance of war crimes. HRW criticised the Joint > Incident Assessment Team (JIAT), set up by Saudi Arabia and the UAE to > examine allegations of war crimes, for “absolving coalition members of > legal responsibility in the vast majority of attacks.” The report > continued: “JIAT investigations show no apparent effort to investigate > personal criminal responsibility for unlawful air attacks. This apparent > attempt to shield parties to the conflict and individual military personnel > from criminal liability is itself a violation of the laws of war.” > > Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, said, “For > more than two years, the coalition has claimed that JIAT was credibly > investigating allegedly unlawful air strikes, but the investigators were > doing little more than covering up war crimes.” > > The slaughtering of civilians in Yemen has been all but ignored by the > corporate-controlled media. The few expressions of concern that have been > made, including from a handful of members of the US Congress, have focused > on the danger that US military personnel could be charged with war crimes, > rather than expressing any real concern for the plight of the Yemeni people. > > The massacring of tens of thousands of civilians in pursuit of US > imperialism's predatory interests in the Middle East long ago became a > routine affair for the media and political establishment. If the Saudis now > feel they can act with such impunity in Yemen, it is not merely because > Washington backs Riyadh's aggressive war to the hilt, but also because the > United States has been no less ruthless in its slaughtering of civilians. > Since the launching of the “war on terror” 17 years ago, US imperialism has > laid waste to entire societies and bears responsibility for deaths in the > millions, including in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. > > US imperialism's unwavering support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen is > bound up with its determination to retain its unchallenged dominance over > the strategically significant and oil-rich Middle East. Washington's drive > to crush the resistance of the Houthis, whom the US and Riyadh routinely > accuse, without providing any evidence, of being Iranian puppets, is viewed > as the prelude to an even bloodier and more devastating conflict with Iran. > > The threat of such a catastrophic war is growing. In tandem with its > backing for the escalation of the Yemen conflict over recent months, the > Trump administration has moved to abrogate the 2015 nuclear accord with > Iran. At the same time, Washington has given Israel a free hand to bomb > Iranian installations in Syria, which has emboldened the right-wing > Netanyahu government. > > Earlier this month, the US began to reimpose punishing sanctions against > Tehran, with a further round due to target Iran's lucrative oil exports in > November. Washington has used these measures of economic warfare to bully > its nominal allies and rivals alike to line up behind its provocative > threats against Iran, which could rapidly erupt into a region-wide military > conflict that would draw in the major powers. > > WSWS.ORG > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 17:44:56 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 12:44:56 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Alexandria O-C tweets about McCain Message-ID: John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency and American service. As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy. He meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Mon Aug 27 18:08:48 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 13:08:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Alexandria O-C tweets about McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The good news is, she got huge pushback for this. And in particular, a bunch of people cited McCain's support for the biblically-catastrophic Saudi war in Yemen. Schumer has proposed that the Russell Senate office building be renamed for McCain. I think we should try to stop this. My brief is here: Brief: Let’s organize against Schumer’s proposal to rename Russell Senate office building for McCain https://www.facebook.com/justforeignpolicy/posts/10156400204260856 Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 12:44 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency > and American service. As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of > humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy. He > meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family. > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Aug 27 18:58:00 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:58:00 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Important Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’m unable to access the article on the NYT, but yes its likely news now, with little context as to source, etc. , its big news given its on Trumps watch now. After nearly 4 years. On Aug 27, 2018, at 10:11, David Green > wrote: For what it's worth, the NYT does have this article, taken from an "objective" moral distance: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/world/middleeast/un-saudi-airstrike-yemen-children.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer But of course no genuine context about the source of the problem. On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 8:56 AM Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: Sorry to ruin your day folks with news that you won’t get from mainstream media, I know this isn’t the kind of announcements you want to hear. One would think being on the Peace List, you would want to know of the lack of peace in our world today, especially at the hands of our own government. After all, you can get news of local get togethers to celebrate something or other, elsewhere in the community. * Print * Leaflet * Feedback * Share » US-backed Saudi air strikes massacre dozens of Yemeni children for second time in two weeks By Jordan Shilton 27 August 2018 At least 22 children and four women were killed by Saudi air strikes in Yemen on Thursday as the US-backed coalition continues its onslaught on the port city of Hodeidah and surrounding areas. The latest atrocities came just two weeks after a Saudi aircraft dropped an American-supplied bomb on a school bus in the northern town of Dahyan, killing 40 children and injuring more than 50. According to reports from a news network aligned with the Houthi rebels, the first Saudi air strike hit a camp for internally displaced people (IDPS) in Duraihami, killing five people and injuring two. Then, in an act of cold-blooded murder that has become the hallmark of the Saudi air war in the impoverished country, an aircraft struck a group of 26 women and children trying to flee the scene of the earlier air strike by bus. The Saudi-led coalition sought to justify the bombing by claiming that the rebels fired a ballistic missile from the area earlier in the day. In reality, the indiscriminate targeting of civilians is nothing new. According to data compiled by al-Jazeera and the Yemen Data Project, around one third of the 16,000 Saudi air strikes on Yemen since March 2015 have hit civilian targets. These have included weddings, water treatment plants, hospitals and electricity plants. As with every air strike launched by the Saudis and their allies, which bear responsibility for the vast majority of the tens of thousands of civilian deaths caused by the bloody three-year-long conflict, the two strikes Thursday would not have occurred without the support of the United States. US military personnel operate a joint headquarters with their Saudi counterparts in Riyadh for intelligence sharing, regularly refuel Saudi jets in midair so they can continue their murderous raids, and supply the reactionary dictatorship with billions of dollars worth of bombs and other military equipment. Analyses of contracts between US defence contractors and Riyadh indicate that $90 billion in military equipment was sold to Riyadh by the US between 2010 and 2015. Just one week prior to the latest massacre, research published by CNN revealed that the 500-pound bomb dropped by Saudi aircraft on a school bus on 9 August was manufactured by Lockheed Martin, the US' largest defence contractor. It was supplied to the Saudi air force in a munitions deal approved by the State Department after former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lifted restrictions on supplying precision-guided arms shipments to Riyadh in march 2017. Washington's support for Riyadh's near-genocidal assault on the Yemeni population was initiated by the Obama administration in March 2015. It has been intensified over the past year, including with the deployment of US special forces on the ground to call in air strikes, and a dramatic increase in the number of air strikes launched directly by the US in Yemen. These attacks, ostensibly directed against Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and ISIS forces, saw a five-fold increase to over 130 in 2017. Responding to the latest attack, United Nations officials renewed the organization's demand, issued following the August 9 school bus bombing, for an independent inquiry into the latest round of atrocities. Mark Lowcock, the UN's top relief official, declared that there was no doubt of Riyadh's responsibility for Thursday's twin attacks. The bombing is part of the Saudi-led coalition's brutal offensive, relaunched in early July in close collaboration with Washington, to take the port city of Hodeidah, which Houthi rebels have held since 2014. The port remains one of the few lifelines through which aid can pass into the war-ravaged country. The siege of the city is causing aid organisations to fear that 8 million Yemenis, more than a third of the population, could be left without food. Horrendous war crimes like those carried out on Thursday and in the school bus attack are a regular occurrence. On 2 August, at least 60 people were killed and over 130 injured after a fish market in Hodeidah was bombed. Meanwhile, Middle East Eye reported on 16 August that residents of the town of Duraihami, some 20 kilometres south of Hodeidah, had been stranded in their houses for days as Saudi forces and mercenaries carried out an offensive against the city to retake it from the Houthis. “There are some people that have bled to death [in the street] and no one dared to help them because of the clashes. Some corpses have decayed in the streets,” Ahmed Mubarak, a Duraihami resident, told Middle East Eye. “The town lives under siege, and also we are under siege inside our houses, as the snipers in the city from both sides kill anyone who leaves his house to the street.” On Friday, Human Rights Watch (HRW) released a 90-page report accusing the Saudi-United Arab Emirates alliance of war crimes. HRW criticised the Joint Incident Assessment Team (JIAT), set up by Saudi Arabia and the UAE to examine allegations of war crimes, for “absolving coalition members of legal responsibility in the vast majority of attacks.” The report continued: “JIAT investigations show no apparent effort to investigate personal criminal responsibility for unlawful air attacks. This apparent attempt to shield parties to the conflict and individual military personnel from criminal liability is itself a violation of the laws of war.” Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, said, “For more than two years, the coalition has claimed that JIAT was credibly investigating allegedly unlawful air strikes, but the investigators were doing little more than covering up war crimes.” The slaughtering of civilians in Yemen has been all but ignored by the corporate-controlled media. The few expressions of concern that have been made, including from a handful of members of the US Congress, have focused on the danger that US military personnel could be charged with war crimes, rather than expressing any real concern for the plight of the Yemeni people. The massacring of tens of thousands of civilians in pursuit of US imperialism's predatory interests in the Middle East long ago became a routine affair for the media and political establishment. If the Saudis now feel they can act with such impunity in Yemen, it is not merely because Washington backs Riyadh's aggressive war to the hilt, but also because the United States has been no less ruthless in its slaughtering of civilians. Since the launching of the “war on terror” 17 years ago, US imperialism has laid waste to entire societies and bears responsibility for deaths in the millions, including in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. US imperialism's unwavering support for Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen is bound up with its determination to retain its unchallenged dominance over the strategically significant and oil-rich Middle East. Washington's drive to crush the resistance of the Houthis, whom the US and Riyadh routinely accuse, without providing any evidence, of being Iranian puppets, is viewed as the prelude to an even bloodier and more devastating conflict with Iran. The threat of such a catastrophic war is growing. In tandem with its backing for the escalation of the Yemen conflict over recent months, the Trump administration has moved to abrogate the 2015 nuclear accord with Iran. At the same time, Washington has given Israel a free hand to bomb Iranian installations in Syria, which has emboldened the right-wing Netanyahu government. Earlier this month, the US began to reimpose punishing sanctions against Tehran, with a further round due to target Iran's lucrative oil exports in November. Washington has used these measures of economic warfare to bully its nominal allies and rivals alike to line up behind its provocative threats against Iran, which could rapidly erupt into a region-wide military conflict that would draw in the major powers. WSWS.ORG _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Mon Aug 27 18:58:19 2018 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:58:19 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Alexandria O-C tweets about McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E263319-C018-4025-ACE1-1B8687F894B1@illinois.edu> She’s young, and perhaps without memory. That’s the only good excuse I can think of. On Aug 27, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss > wrote: The good news is, she got huge pushback for this. And in particular, a bunch of people cited McCain's support for the biblically-catastrophic Saudi war in Yemen. Schumer has proposed that the Russell Senate office building be renamed for McCain. I think we should try to stop this. My brief is here: Brief: Let’s organize against Schumer’s proposal to rename Russell Senate office building for McCain https://www.facebook.com/justforeignpolicy/posts/10156400204260856 Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 12:44 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss > wrote: John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency and American service. As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy. He meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 22:56:12 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 17:56:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The Other Side of John McCain References: <4259456563.-2137442194@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Mon Aug 27 23:09:55 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:09:55 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> References: <4259456563.-2137442194@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from > reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military > interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked > aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > > https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ > > > While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ > , > including: > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite > by > As’ad AbuKhalil > > The Limits of Elizabeth Warren > by > Sam Husseini > > *Introducing*: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Tue Aug 28 03:54:57 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 10:54:57 +0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: <4259456563.-2137442194@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1535428495133.evbl4roawgr32bgp3pwfvwl1@android.mail.163.com> The McCain Memorial Pay Toilet seems apt to me. On 2018-08-28 06:09 , Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss Wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal.  https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Tue Aug 28 03:54:57 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 10:54:57 +0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: <4259456563.-2137442194@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1535428495133.evbl4roawgr32bgp3pwfvwl1@android.mail.163.com> The McCain Memorial Pay Toilet seems apt to me. On 2018-08-28 06:09 , Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss Wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal.  https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 03:57:08 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:57:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: <4259456563.-2137442194@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> <116AD829-D5F4-4C30-A095-7C53E9DC1CE8@gmail.com> Message-ID: "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: > > > Here's our alert: > > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ > While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: > > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil > > The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini > > Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > ### > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Aug 28 18:32:21 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:32:21 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Max nails it, in respect to John McCain Message-ID: THE OTHER SIDE OF JOHN MCCAIN By Max Blumenthal, Consortiumnews.com August 27, 2018 | EDUCATE! [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2017/12/1googlenotice.png] Above Photo: McCain with Abdelhakim Belhaj, leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a former Al Qaeda affiliate. If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics As the Cold War entered its final act in 1985, journalist Helena Cobban participated in an academic conference at an upscale resort near Tucson, Arizona, on U.S.-Soviet interactions in the Middle East. When she attended what was listed as the “Gala Dinner with keynote speech”, she quickly learned that the virtual theme of the evening was, “Adopt a Muj.” “I remember mingling with all of these wealthy Republican women from the Phoenix suburbs and being asked, ‘Have you adopted a muj?” Cobban told me. “Each one had pledged money to sponsor a member of the Afghan mujahedin in the name of beating the communists. Some were even seated at the event next to their personal ‘muj.’” The keynote speaker of the evening, according to Cobban, was a hard-charging freshman member of Congress named John McCain. During the Vietnam war, McCain had been captured by the North Vietnamese Army after being shot down on his way to bomb a civilian lightbulb factory. He spent two years in solitary confinement and underwent torture that left him with crippling injuries. McCain returned from the war with a deep, abiding loathing of his former captors, remarking as late as 2000, “I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live.” After he was criticized for the racist remark, McCain refused to apologize. “I was referring to my prison guards,” he said, “and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend some people because of the beating and torture of my friends.” [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/hoa_lo_prison_aka__hanoi_hilton__11827025123-768x432.jpg] ‘Hanoi Hilton’ prison where McCain was tortured. (Wikimedia Commons) McCain’s visceral resentment informed his vocal support for the mujahedin as well as the right-wing contra death squads in Central America — any proxy group sworn to the destruction of communist governments. So committed was McCain to the anti-communist cause that in the mid-1980s he had joined the advisory board of the United States Council for World Freedom, the American affiliate of the World Anti-Communist League (WACL). Geoffrey Stewart-Smith, a former leader of WACL’s British chapter who had turned against the group in 1974, described the organization as “a collection of Nazis, fascists, anti-Semites, sellers of forgeries, vicious racialists, and corrupt self-seekers. It has evolved into an anti-Semitic international.” Joining McCain in the organization were notables such as Jaroslav Stetsko, the Croatian Nazi collaborator who helped oversee the extermination of 7,000 Jews in 1941; the brutal Argentinian former dictator Jorge Rafael Videla; and Guatemalan death squad leader Mario Sandoval Alarcon. Then-President Ronald Reagan honored the group for playing“a leadership role in drawing attention to the gallant struggle now being waged by the true freedom fighters of our day.” Being Lauded as a Hero On the occasion of his death, McCain is being honored in much the same way — as a patriotic hero and freedom fighter for democracy. A stream of hagiographies is pouring forth from the Beltway press corps that he described as his true political base. Among McCain’s most enthusiastic groupies is CNN’s Jake Tapper, whom he chose as his personal stenographer for a 2000 trip to Vietnam. When the former CNN host Howard Kurtz asked Tapper in February, 2000, “When you’re on the [campaign] bus, do you make a conscious effort not to fall under the magical McCain spell?” “Oh, you can’t. You become like Patty Hearst when the SLA took her,” Tapper joked in reply. [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/ocasio-cropped.jpg] Ocasio-Cortez: Called McCain ‘an unparalleled example of human decency.’ But the late senator has also been treated to gratuitous tributes from an array of prominent liberals, from George Soros to his soft power-pushing client, Ken Roth, along with three fellow directors of Human Rights Watch and “democratic socialist” celebrity Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, who hailed McCain as “an unparalleled example of human decency.” Rep. John Lewis, the favorite civil rights symbol of the Beltway political class, weighed in as well to memorialize McCain as a “warrior for peace.” If the paeans to McCain by this diverse cast of political climbers and Davos denizens seemed detached from reality, that’s because they perfectly reflected the elite view of American military interventions as akin to a game of chess, and the millions of dead left in the wake of the West’s unprovoked aggression as mere statistics. There were few figures in recent American life who dedicated themselves so personally to the perpetuation of war and empire as McCain. But in Washington, the most defining aspect of his career was studiously overlooked, or waved away as the trivial idiosyncrasy of a noble servant who nonetheless deserved everyone’s reverence. McCain did not simply thunder for every major intervention of the post-Cold War era from the Senate floor, while pushing for sanctions and assorted campaigns of subterfuge on the side. He was uniquely ruthless when it came to advancing imperial goals, barnstorming from one conflict zones to another to personally recruit far-right fanatics as American proxies. In Libya and Syria, he cultivated affiliates of Al Qaeda as allies, and in Ukraine, McCain courted actual, sig-heiling neo-Nazis. While McCain’s Senate office functioned as a clubhouse for arms industry lobbyists and neocon operatives, his fascistic allies waged a campaign of human devastation that will continue until long after the flowers dry up on his grave. American media may have sought to bury this legacy with the senator’s body, but it is what much of the outside world will remember him for. ‘They are Not al-Qaeda’ [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/photo-2.jpg] McCain with Abdelhakim Belhaj, leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a former Al Qaeda affiliate. When a violent insurgency swept through Libya in 2011, McCain parachuted into the country to meet with leaders of the main insurgent outfit, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), battling the government of Moamar Gaddafi. His goal was to make kosher this band of hardline Islamists in the eyes of the Obama administration, which was considering a military intervention at the time. What happened next is well documented, though it is scarcely discussed by a Washington political class that depended on the Benghazi charade to deflect from the real scandal of Libya’s societal destruction. Gaddafi’s motorcade was attacked by NATO jets, enabling a band of LIFG fighters to capture him, sodomize him with a bayonet, then murder him and leave his body to rot in a butcher shop in Misrata while rebel fanboys snapped cellphone selfies of his fetid corpse. A slaughter of Black citizens of Libya by the racist sectarian militias recruited by McCain immediately followed the killing of the pan-African leader. ISIS took over Gaddafi’s hometown of Sirte while Belhaj’s militia took control of Tripoli, and a war of the warlords began. Just as Gaddafi had warned, the ruined country became a staging ground for migrant smugglers on the Mediterranean, fueling the rise of the far-right across Europe and enabling the return of slavery to Africa. Many might describe Libya as a failed state, but it also represents a successful realization of the vision McCain and his allies have advanced on the global stage. Following the NATO-orchestrated murder of Libya’s leader, McCain tweeted, “Qaddafi on his way out, Bashar al Assad is next.” McCain’s Syrian Boondoggle Like Libya, Syria had resisted aligning with the West and was suddenly confronted with a Salafi-jihadi insurgency armed by the CIA. Once again, McCain made it his personal duty to market Islamist insurgents to America as a cross between the Minutemen and the Freedom Riders of the civil rights era. To do so, he took under his wing a youthful DC-based Syria-American operative named Mouaz Moustafa who had been a consultant to the Libyan Transitional Council during the run-up to the NATO invasion. In May 2013, Moustafa convinced McCain to take an illegal trip across the Syrian border and meet some freedom fighters. An Israeli millionaire named Moti Kahana who coordinated efforts between the Syrian opposition and the Israeli military through his NGO, Amaliah, claimed to have “financed the opposition group which took senator John McCain to visit war-torn Syria.” “This could be like his Benghazi moment,” Moustafa remarked excitedly in a scene from a documentary, “Red Lines,” that depicted his efforts for regime change. “[McCain] went to Benghazi, he came back, we bombed.” During his brief excursion into Syria, McCain met with a group of CIA-backed insurgents and blessed their struggle. “The senator wanted to assure the Free Syrian Army that the American people support their cry for freedom, support their revolution,” Moustafa said in an interview with CNN. McCain’s office promptly released a photo showing the senator posing beside a beaming Moustafa and two grim-looking gunmen. Days later, the men were named by the Lebanese Daily Star as Mohammad Nour and Abu Ibrahim. Both had been implicated in the kidnapping a year prior of 11 Shia pilgrims, and were identified by one of the survivors. McCain and Moustafa returned to the U.S. the targets of mockery from Daily Show host John Stewart and the subject of harshly critical reports from across the media spectrum. At a town hall in Arizona, McCain was berated by constituents, including Jumana Hadid, a Syrian Christian woman who warned that the sectarian militants he had cozied up to threatened her community with genocide. [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/photo-1-1.jpg] McCain with then-FSA commander Salam Idriss, an insurgent later exposed for kidnapping Shia pilgrims. But McCain pressed ahead anyway. On Capitol Hill, he introduced another shady young operative into his interventionist theater. Named Elizabeth O’Bagy, she was a fellow at the Institute for the Study of War, an arms industry-funded think tank directed by Kimberly Kagan of the neoconservative Kagan clan. Behind the scenes, O’Bagy was consulting for Moustafa at his Syrian Emergency Task Force, a clear conflict of interest that her top Senate patron was well aware of. Before the Senate, McCain cited a Wall Street Journal editorial by O’Bagy to support his assessment of the Syrian rebels as predominately “moderate,” and potentially Western-friendly. Days later, O’Bagy was exposed for faking her PhD in Arabic studies. As soon as the humiliated Kagan fired O’Bagy, the academic fraudster took another pass through the Beltway’s revolving door, striding into the halls of Congress as McCain’s newest foreign policy aide. McCain ultimately failed to see the Islamist “revolutionaries” he glad handled take control of Damascus. Syria’s government held on thanks to help from his mortal enemies in Tehran and Moscow, but not before a billion dollar CIA arm-and-equip operation helped spawn one of the worst refugee crises in post-war history. Luckily for McCain, there were other intrigues seeking his attention, and new bands of fanatical rogues in need of his blessing. Months after his Syrian boondoggle, the ornery militarist turned his attention to Ukraine, then in the throes of an upheaval stimulated by U.S. and EU-funded soft power NGO’s. Coddling the Neo-Nazis of Ukraine On December 14, 2013, McCain materialized in Kiev for a meeting with Oleh Tyanhbok, an unreconstructed fascist who had emerged as a top opposition leader. Tyanhbok had co-founded the fascist Social-National Party, a far-right political outfit that touted itself as the “last hope of the white race, of humankind as such.” No fan of Jews, he had complained that a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” had taken control of his country, and had been photographed throwing up a sieg heil Nazi salute during a speech. None of this apparently mattered to McCain. Nor did the scene of Right Sector neo-Nazis filling up Kiev’s Maidan Square while he appeared on stage to egg them on. “Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better!” McCain proclaimed to cheering throngs while Tyanhbok stood by his side. The only issue that mattered to him at the time was the refusal of Ukraine’s elected president to sign a European Union austerity plan, opting instead for an economic deal with Moscow. [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/photo-3.jpg] McCain met with Social-National Party co-founder Oleh Tyanhbok. McCain was so committed to replacing an independent-minded government with a NATO vassal that he even mulled a military assault on Kiev. “I do not see a military option and that is tragic,” McCain lamented in an interview about the crisis. Fortunately for him, regime change arrived soon after his appearance on the Maidan, and Tyanhbok’s allies rushed in to fill the void. By the end of the year, the Ukrainian military had become bogged down in a bloody trench war with pro-Russian, anti-coup separatists in the country’s east. A militia affiliated with the new government in Kiev called Dnipro-1 was accused by Amnesty International observers of blocking humanitarian aid into a separatist-held area, including food and clothing for the war torn population. Six months later, McCain appeared at Dnipro-1’s training base alongside Sen.’s Tom Cotton and John Barasso. “The people of my country are proud of your fight and your courage,” McCain told an assembly of soldiers from the militia. When he completed his remarks, the fighters belted out a World War II-era salute made famous by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators: “Glory to Ukraine!” Today, far-right nationalists occupy key posts in Ukraine’s pro-Western government. The speaker of its parliament is Andriy Parubiy, a co-founder with Tyanhbok of the Social-National Party and leader of the movement to honor World World Two-era Nazi collaborators like Stepan Bandera. On the cover of his 1998 manifesto, “View From The Right,” Parubiy appeared in a Nazi-style brown shirt with a pistol strapped to his waist. In June 2017, McCain and Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan welcomed Parubiy on Capitol Hill for what McCain called a “good meeting.” It was a shot in the arm for the fascist forces sweeping across Ukraine. [https://popularresistance-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2018/08/photo-4-768x476.jpg] McCain with Dnipro-1 militants on June 20, 2015 The past months in Ukraine have seen a state sponsored neo-Nazi militia called C14 carrying out a pogromist rampage against Ukraine’s Roma population, the country’s parliament erecting an exhibition honoring Nazi collaborators, and the Ukrainian military formally approving the pro-Nazi “Glory to Ukraine” greeting as its own official salute. Ukraine is now the sick man of Europe, a perpetual aid case bogged down in an endless war in its east. In a testament to the country’s demise since its so-called “Revolution of Dignity,” the deeply unpopular President Petro Poroshenko has promised White House National Security Advisor John Bolton that his country — once a plentiful source of coal on par with Pennsylvania — will now purchase coal from the U.S. Once again, a regime change operation that generated a failing, fascistic state stands as one of McCain’s greatest triumphs. McCain’s history conjures up memory of one of the most inflammatory statements by Sarah Palin, another cretinous fanatic he foisted onto the world stage. During a characteristically rambling stump speech in October 2008, Palin accused Barack Obama of “palling around with terrorists.” The line was dismissed as ridiculous and borderline slander, as it should have been. But looking back at McCain’s career, the accusation seems richly ironic. By any objective standard, it was McCain who had palled around with terrorists, and who wrested as much resources as he could from the American taxpayer to maximize their mayhem. Here’s hoping that the societies shattered by McCain’s proxies will someday rest in peace. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Tue Aug 28 22:25:32 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Tue Aug 28 22:25:32 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (bjornsona at ameritech.net) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 22:30:52 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5@gmail.com> Plausible. > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote: > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------ > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > To: Robert Naiman; > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> Here's our alert: >> >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> >> === >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Dir ector >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Consortium News >> >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: >> >> >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil >> >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini >> >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 22:30:52 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5@gmail.com> Plausible. > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote: > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------ > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > To: Robert Naiman; > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> Here's our alert: >> >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> >> === >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Dir ector >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Consortium News >> >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: >> >> >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil >> >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini >> >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 23:17:27 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 23:17:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <232347822.5312066.1535498247356@mail.yahoo.com> You didn't do your homework, CGEThe host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist...An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation...but please watch the video first. | | | | | | | | | | | An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... | | | On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net)   2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net)   3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , Robert Naiman     Cc: Peace Discuss , peace     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , Robert Naiman     Cc: Peace Discuss , peace     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" Cc: Robert Naiman , Peace Discuss     , C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , peace Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Plausible. > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote: > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------ > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > To: Robert Naiman; > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> Here's our alert: >> >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> >> === >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Dir ector >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Consortium News >> >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: >> >> >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil >> >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini >> >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 23:22:07 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 23:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: <232347822.5312066.1535498247356@mail.yahoo.com> References: <232347822.5312066.1535498247356@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <377645895.5302730.1535498527718@mail.yahoo.com> correction....add (bjornsona at ameritech.net)...i get too excited...:) On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 5:17:27 PM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: You didn't do your homework, CGEThe host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist...An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation...but please watch the video first. | | | | | | | | | | | An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... | | | On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net)   2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net)   3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , Robert Naiman     Cc: Peace Discuss , peace     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , Robert Naiman     Cc: Peace Discuss , peace     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time.  Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net" Cc: Robert Naiman , Peace Discuss     , C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss     , peace Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Plausible. > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss wrote: > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------ > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > To: Robert Naiman; > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: >> >> >> Here's our alert: >> >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> >> === >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Dir ector >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: >> Consortium News >> >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ , including: >> >> >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil >> >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini >> >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 23:56:20 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:56:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, 28 August Message-ID: <3180E040-A9C9-43B0-AEAB-A6F5D5F66819@gmail.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kT3IfpyeCM Theme: Russiagate against Trump and antisemitism against Corbyn are parallel attempts by US and UK political establishments to continue their war provocations, which Trump and Corbyn have criticized; but it’s economics that promoted both of them. 1. “Be Careful What You Ask For: Wasting Time with Manafort, Cohen, and Russiagate” 2. “Corbyn’s Labour is Being Made to Fail – by Design” 3. “Becoming Serfs” —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 00:03:37 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:03:37 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: <232347822.5312066.1535498247356@mail.yahoo.com> References: <232347822.5312066.1535498247356@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1B14D5F2-561C-427D-AA03-608CB0C6D3E7@gmail.com> The sentence "I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time” is not mine. —CGE > On Aug 28, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > > You didn't do your homework, CGE > The host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist... > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation... > but please watch the video first. > > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... > > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) > 2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) > 3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >, Robert Naiman > > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace > > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >, Robert Naiman > > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace > > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > Cc: Robert Naiman >, Peace Discuss > >, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >, peace > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Plausible. > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > ------ Original message------ > > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > > To: Robert Naiman; > > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Here's our alert: > >> > >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > >> > >> === > >> > >> Robert Naiman > >> Policy Dir ector > >> Just Foreign Policy > >> www.justforeignpolicy.org > > >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > >> (202) 448-2898 x1 > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > >> Consortium News > >> > >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ > > >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ >, including: > >> > >> > >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite > by As’ad AbuKhalil > >> > >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren > by Sam Husseini > >> > >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > >> > >> ### > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Peace-discuss mailing list > >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > ********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 00:11:19 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:11:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1306632249.5343604.1535501479465@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, not CGE sentence, by error....The problem is that I don't respect anyone on this site...so much education, articulate people and completed deluded and brainwashed...Because of this attitude, I don't put my best foot forward when posting...Who cares what you people think...you have no audience... your just blowin' crap in the wind.real activism is investigative journalism where verified facts are dug up and can be used to prosecute criminals...this has real value...your opinions don't do anything to advance this cause. On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:04:11 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. AWARE on the Air, 28 August (C G Estabrook)   2. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 (C G Estabrook) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:56:20 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: peace Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, 28 August Message-ID: <3180E040-A9C9-43B0-AEAB-A6F5D5F66819 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kT3IfpyeCM Theme: Russiagate against Trump and antisemitism against Corbyn are parallel attempts by US and UK political establishments to continue their war provocations, which Trump and Corbyn have criticized; but it’s economics that promoted both of them. 1. “Be Careful What You Ask For: Wasting Time with Manafort, Cohen, and Russiagate” 2. “Corbyn’s Labour is Being Made to Fail – by Design” 3. “Becoming Serfs” —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:03:37 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: Stephen Francis Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 Message-ID: <1B14D5F2-561C-427D-AA03-608CB0C6D3E7 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The sentence "I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time” is not mine. —CGE > On Aug 28, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > > You didn't do your homework, CGE > The host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist... > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation... > but please watch the video first. >     > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... >  > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to >    peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >    https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >    peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at >    peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >  1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) >  2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) >  3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, Robert Naiman >    > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace >    > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, Robert Naiman >    > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace >    > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > Cc: Robert Naiman >, Peace Discuss >    >, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, peace > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Plausible. > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > ------ Original message------ > > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > > To: Robert Naiman; > > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Here's our alert: > >> > >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > >> > >> === > >> > >> Robert Naiman > >> Policy Dir ector > >> Just Foreign Policy > >> www.justforeignpolicy.org > > >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > >> (202) 448-2898 x1 > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > >> Consortium News > >> > >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ > > >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ >, including: > >> > >> > >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite > by As’ad AbuKhalil > >> > >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren > by Sam Husseini > >> > >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > >> > >> ### > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Peace-discuss mailing list > >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > ********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 00:14:15 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 00:14:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 In-Reply-To: <1306632249.5343604.1535501479465@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1306632249.5343604.1535501479465@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1943712910.5332316.1535501655109@mail.yahoo.com> my research reaches well over 700,000 people per year on all continents. On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:11:19 PM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: Yes, not CGE sentence, by error....The problem is that I don't respect anyone on this site...so much education, articulate people and completed deluded and brainwashed...Because of this attitude, I don't put my best foot forward when posting...Who cares what you people think...you have no audience... your just blowin' crap in the wind.real activism is investigative journalism where verified facts are dug up and can be used to prosecute criminals...this has real value...your opinions don't do anything to advance this cause. On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:04:11 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. AWARE on the Air, 28 August (C G Estabrook)   2. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 (C G Estabrook) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:56:20 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: peace Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, 28 August Message-ID: <3180E040-A9C9-43B0-AEAB-A6F5D5F66819 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kT3IfpyeCM Theme: Russiagate against Trump and antisemitism against Corbyn are parallel attempts by US and UK political establishments to continue their war provocations, which Trump and Corbyn have criticized; but it’s economics that promoted both of them. 1. “Be Careful What You Ask For: Wasting Time with Manafort, Cohen, and Russiagate” 2. “Corbyn’s Labour is Being Made to Fail – by Design” 3. “Becoming Serfs” —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:03:37 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: Stephen Francis Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 Message-ID: <1B14D5F2-561C-427D-AA03-608CB0C6D3E7 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The sentence "I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time” is not mine. —CGE > On Aug 28, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > > You didn't do your homework, CGE > The host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist... > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation... > but please watch the video first. >     > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... >  > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to >    peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >    https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >    peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at >    peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >  1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) >  2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net ) >  3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, Robert Naiman >    > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace >    > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, Robert Naiman >    > > Cc: Peace Discuss >, peace >    > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: > > Here's our alert: > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > === > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: > Consortium News > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > ### > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net " > > Cc: Robert Naiman >, Peace Discuss >    >, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >    >, peace > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Plausible. > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > ------ Original message------ > > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > > To: Robert Naiman; > > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Here's our alert: > >> > >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > >> > >> === > >> > >> Robert Naiman > >> Policy Dir ector > >> Just Foreign Policy > >> www.justforeignpolicy.org > > >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > >> (202) 448-2898 x1 > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > >> Consortium News > >> > >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ > > >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ >, including: > >> > >> > >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite > by As’ad AbuKhalil > >> > >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren > by Sam Husseini > >> > >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > >> > >> ### > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Peace-discuss mailing list > >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > ********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 01:17:27 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:17:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 In-Reply-To: <1943712910.5332316.1535501655109@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1306632249.5343604.1535501479465@mail.yahoo.com> <1943712910.5332316.1535501655109@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: GLENDOWER <> I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <> HOTSPUR <> Why, so can I, or so can any man; <> But will they come when you do call for them? <> GLENDOWER <> Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command <> The devil. <> HOTSPUR <> And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil <> By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. <> If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, <> And I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. <> O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <> MORTIMER <> Come, come, no more of this unprofitable chat. <> > On Aug 28, 2018, at 7:14 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > > my research reaches well over 700,000 people per year on all continents. > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:11:19 PM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: > > > Yes, not CGE sentence, by error....The problem is that I don't respect anyone on this site...so much education, articulate people and completed deluded and brainwashed... > Because of this attitude, I don't put my best foot forward when posting... > Who cares what you people think...you have no audience... your just blowin' crap in the wind. > real activism is investigative journalism where verified facts are dug up and can be used to prosecute criminals... > this has real value...your opinions don't do anything to advance this cause. > > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:04:11 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. AWARE on the Air, 28 August (C G Estabrook) > 2. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 (C G Estabrook) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:56:20 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: peace > > Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net > Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, 28 August > Message-ID: <3180E040-A9C9-43B0-AEAB-A6F5D5F66819 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kT3IfpyeCM > > > Theme: Russiagate against Trump and antisemitism against Corbyn are parallel attempts by US and UK political establishments to continue their war provocations, which Trump and Corbyn have criticized; but it’s economics that promoted both of them. > > 1. “Be Careful What You Ask For: Wasting Time with Manafort, Cohen, and Russiagate” > > > 2. “Corbyn’s Labour is Being Made to Fail – by Design” > > > 3. “Becoming Serfs” > > > > —CGE > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:03:37 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: Stephen Francis > > Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > Message-ID: <1B14D5F2-561C-427D-AA03-608CB0C6D3E7 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > The sentence "I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time” is not mine. —CGE > > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > > > You didn't do your homework, CGE > > The host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist... > > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > > > > You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation... > > but please watch the video first. > > > > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net >) > > 2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net >) > > 3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > >>, Robert Naiman > > >> > > Cc: Peace Discuss >>, peace > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > > > > Here's our alert: > > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > > > === > > Robert Naiman > > Policy Director > > Just Foreign Policy > > www.justforeignpolicy.org > > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While >there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > >>, Robert Naiman > > >> > > Cc: Peace Discuss >>, peace > > >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > > > > Here's our alert: > > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > > > === > > Robert Naiman > > Policy Director > > Just Foreign Policy > > www.justforeignpolicy.org > > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While >there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 > > From: C G Estabrook >> > > To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > Cc: Robert Naiman >>, Peace Discuss > > >>, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > >>, peace >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Plausible. > > > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > > > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > > > ------ Original message------ > > > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > > > To: Robert Naiman; > > > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > > > > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > > > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 >8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ >> > > > > > > > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > >>> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Here's our alert: > > >> > > >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > > >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > > >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> > > >> > > >> === > > >> > > >> Robert Naiman > > >> Policy Dir ector > > >> Just Foreign Policy > > >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> > > >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > >> > > >> (202) 448-2898 x1 > > >> > > >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >>> wrote: > > >> Consortium News > > >> > > >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > > >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >>> > > >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ >>>, including: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite >> by As’ad AbuKhalil > > >> > > >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren >> by Sam Husseini > > >> > > >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> > > >> > > >> ### > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Peace-discuss mailing list > > >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > >> > > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 > ********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 01:34:48 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 01:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 81 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423985909.14934.1535506488275@mail.yahoo.com> fate is a perfidious fellow who casts shadows in the night,they know not what it means to shine,they only can wait and see the darkness,please, let me explain until another day,why not now, until forever more. On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 7:18:05 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 (C G Estabrook) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:17:27 -0500 From: C G Estabrook To: Stephen Francis Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" GLENDOWER <> I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <> HOTSPUR <> Why, so can I, or so can any man; <> But will they come when you do call for them? <> GLENDOWER <> Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command <> The devil. <> HOTSPUR <> And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil <> By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. <> If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, <> And I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. <> O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <> MORTIMER <> Come, come, no more of this unprofitable chat. <> > On Aug 28, 2018, at 7:14 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > > my research reaches well over 700,000 people per year on all continents. > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:11:19 PM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: > > > Yes, not CGE sentence, by error....The problem is that I don't respect anyone on this site...so much education, articulate people and completed deluded and brainwashed... > Because of this attitude, I don't put my best foot forward when posting... > Who cares what you people think...you have no audience... your just blowin' crap in the wind. > real activism is investigative journalism where verified facts are dug up and can be used to prosecute criminals... > this has real value...your opinions don't do anything to advance this cause. > > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 6:04:11 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to >    peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >    https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >    peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at >    peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >  1. AWARE on the Air, 28 August (C G Estabrook) >  2. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 (C G Estabrook) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:56:20 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: peace > > Cc: peace-discuss at anti-war.net > Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, 28 August > Message-ID: <3180E040-A9C9-43B0-AEAB-A6F5D5F66819 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kT3IfpyeCM > > > Theme: Russiagate against Trump and antisemitism against Corbyn are parallel attempts by US and UK political establishments to continue their war provocations, which Trump and Corbyn have criticized; but it’s economics that promoted both of them. > > 1. “Be Careful What You Ask For: Wasting Time with Manafort, Cohen, and Russiagate” > > > 2. “Corbyn’s Labour is Being Made to Fail – by Design” > > > 3. “Becoming Serfs” > > > > —CGE > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 19:03:37 -0500 > From: C G Estabrook > > To: Stephen Francis > > Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > Message-ID: <1B14D5F2-561C-427D-AA03-608CB0C6D3E7 at gmail.com > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > The sentence "I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time” is not mine. —CGE > > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > > > > You didn't do your homework, CGE > > The host of Blackstone Intelligence Network is a Holocaust Revisionist... > > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > > > > You may want to modify your sentence " I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time." ... for the sake of your reputation... > > but please watch the video first. > >    > > An Honest Conversation About the Jewish Holocaust > > A balanced, short explanation of the events of 1930s -1940s from: Blackstone Intelligence https://www.blackstone... > >  > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 28, 2018, 4:31:20 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > >    peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >    https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >    peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > >    peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >  1. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net >) > >  2. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (bjornsona at ameritech.net >) > >  3. Re: The Other Side of John McCain (C G Estabrook) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >    >>, Robert Naiman > >    >> > > Cc: Peace Discuss >>, peace > >    >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > > > > Here's our alert: > > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > > > === > > Robert Naiman > > Policy Director > > Just Foreign Policy > > www.justforeignpolicy.org > > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While >there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:25:32 -0500 > > From: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > To: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >    >>, Robert Naiman > >    >> > > Cc: Peace Discuss >>, peace > >    >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------ Original message------From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discussDate: Mon, Aug 27, 2018 10:57 PMTo: Robert Naiman;Cc: Peace Discuss;peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ > > > > > On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman >> wrote: > > > > Here's our alert: > > @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCainDon’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice.https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 > > > > === > > Robert Naiman > > Policy Director > > Just Foreign Policy > > www.justforeignpolicy.org > > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > > > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > Consortium News > > If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/While >there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalilThe Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam HusseiniIntroducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:30:52 -0500 > > From: C G Estabrook >> > > To: "bjornsona at ameritech.net >" >> > > Cc: Robert Naiman >>, Peace Discuss > >    >>, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >    >>, peace >> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > Message-ID: <7CF0F450-6D69-43C4-AE17-A6A2FB7811F5 at gmail.com >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Plausible. > > > > > On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:25 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss >> wrote: > > > > > > With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a  Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. > > > I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > > > ------ Original message------ > > > From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > > > Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM > > > To: Robert Naiman; > > > Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; > > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain > > > > > > "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair > > > > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 >8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ >> > > > > > > > > >> On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > >>> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Here's our alert: > > >> > > >> @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain > > >> Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. > > >> http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 >> > > >> > > >> === > > >> > > >> Robert Naiman > > >> Policy Dir ector > > >> Just Foreign Policy > > >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> > > >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > >> > > >> (202) 448-2898 x1 > > >> > > >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > >>> wrote: > > >> Consortium News > > >> > > >> If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. > > >> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ >>> > > >> While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/ >>>, including: > > >> > > >> > > >> Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite >> by As’ad AbuKhalil > > >> > > >> The Limits of Elizabeth Warren >> by Sam Husseini > > >> > > >> Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show >> > > >> > > >> ### > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Peace-discuss mailing list > > >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > >> > > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 75 > > ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace-discuss mailing list > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 78 > ********************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 175, Issue 81 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 15:24:35 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 10:24:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Eurasia integration - enemy of the US ruling class for a century Message-ID: <4807DF48-A76D-451F-A1EB-22CACCDF5D3F@gmail.com> https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/29/back-in-the-great-game-the-revenge-of-eurasian-land-powers/ On "the battle between Eurasia integration and Western sanctions as foreign policy.” —CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Wed Aug 29 16:14:58 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:14:58 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB213F38@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> The AWARE fb page has from its beginning been a locus for differing views on the implications of opposition to US wars - e.g., pro- and anti-Obama. And I do not, incidentally, have "an apologist attitude towards Trump." I do think it's important to understand why he was elected - an effect of the general populist uprising in the US & EU, not a matter of 'left' and 'right.' --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:08 AM To: peace Subject: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group, I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate. Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R. Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below: "Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war. Abortion is the leading cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re “against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges. Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all, child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Wed Aug 29 17:06:25 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 17:06:25 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB213F87@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <310sjqh8208pso8c1ppsohv3.1535557919090@email.lge.com>, <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB213F87@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB213F97@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> ________________________________ From: Estabrook, Carl G Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 12:05 PM To: bjornsona at ameritech.net; Karen Aram via Peace Subject: RE: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" I am not saying "that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their 'I will NEVER budge' issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in, is what we need." I am saying that we need to examine the implications of opposition to America's wars. It's a contradiction to be appalled (as we should be) at our responsibility for ending the lives of children in a bus in Yemen and ignoring our responsibility for the ending of lives of children in wombs in America. --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of bjornsona--- via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 11:26 AM To: Karen Aram via Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in, is what we need. I have a friend who thinks this one issue has been a major cause of many of our woes because so many potential activists put blinders on to the rest of the atrocities happening in the world. Joining up is the only way we will get anywhere. I appreciate ANSWER, Karen. If prayer and cohesion do not work, unfortunately it looks like bigger wars, starvation, earthquakes might do it. See USGS for increasing size and depth of earthquakes in Ring of Fire - moving to 6.5s (yet not corresponding release of pressure along U. S. Pacific coast). See web site SOTT predicting large crop yield losses across the globe from this year and difficult growth next year from volcanic ash covering sun and unpredictable weather. Hate to be gloomy..being realistic while MSM distracts. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: Karen Aram via Peace Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:09 AM To: peace; Cc: Subject:[Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group, I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate. Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R. Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below: "Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war. Abortion is the leading cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re “against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges. Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all, child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Wed Aug 29 17:08:28 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:08:28 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] FW: WORLD LABOR HOUR Labor Day Weekend Saturday Sept. 1st. Message-ID: <00b201d43fba$e8fc9000$baf5b000$@comcast.net> WORLD LABOR HOUR Saturday Sept. 1st 11 AM - 1 PM Central Time Live worldwide at ; www.wrfu.net , and at 104.5 FM on WRFU - Radio Free Urbana. Join us this Saturday for our Labor Day Weekend program with updates on the national Prison Strike, SEIU's picketing in Champaign Urbana for a decent contract, The history of Labor Day / the past and current struggles of Working people and why nothing was ever given to us by the capitalist class without a fight, What we should be demanding for a better Labor future The bias against Working people and Labor Unions by the corporate owned media and our SUPPOSED public television network PBS which is corporate funded. And finally current corporate / U.S. government censorship of non-corporate alternative media and the extreme dangerous precedent this sets. Stay tuned after The World Labor Hour for ; " NOT ANOTHER SPORTS SHOW " - a radical look at sports - with Host Fellow Worker Neil Parthun. WRFU - Radio Free Urbana - Listener supported corporate free community radio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 29 22:46:16 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:46:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I watched the Blackstone podcast, the IP address is strange in that it is “VOA" in the middle. I hope thats not “Voice of America,” which is hardly credible. We know Russia has warned the “western powers” against another fake chemical weapons attack on Syria, and people have been leaving Idlib, a most important area of Syria, in droves today as reported by alternative news. It is a worrisome situation, with two great powers the US and Russia at military odds. Most of us are not surprised that the US hasn’t given up on Syria, they couldn’t achieve regime change so plan B is partition. If they can just control Idlib province ……… On Aug 28, 2018, at 15:25, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM To: Robert Naiman; Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Dir ector Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Aug 29 22:46:16 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 22:46:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] The Other Side of John McCain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I watched the Blackstone podcast, the IP address is strange in that it is “VOA" in the middle. I hope thats not “Voice of America,” which is hardly credible. We know Russia has warned the “western powers” against another fake chemical weapons attack on Syria, and people have been leaving Idlib, a most important area of Syria, in droves today as reported by alternative news. It is a worrisome situation, with two great powers the US and Russia at military odds. Most of us are not surprised that the US hasn’t given up on Syria, they couldn’t achieve regime change so plan B is partition. If they can just control Idlib province ……… On Aug 28, 2018, at 15:25, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM To: Robert Naiman; Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Dir ector Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 30 12:39:53 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:39:53 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The latest on Syria, a very dangerous situation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Russia gives US intel on planned chemical weapons provocation in Syria Published time: 30 Aug, 2018 03:24Edited time: 30 Aug, 2018 09:45 Get short URL [Russia gives US intel on planned chemical weapons provocation in Syria] Tahrir al-Sham Islamist rebels in Syria © Khalil Ashawi / Reuters * 1152 * * 35 * * * * Moscow has briefed US diplomats on a plan by militants to stage a false flag chemical weapons attack in Syria's Idlib province meant to frame Damascus, the Russian ambassador in the US has said. Anatoly Antonov, the Russian ambassador in Washington, confirmed to the media on Wednesday that he had met with the US special representative to Syria, James Jeffrey, and David M. Satterfield, acting assistant secretary of state for near eastern affairs. The attendees of the rare meeting and the fact that it had taken place earlier this week was revealed by US State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert during a daily briefing. Read more [FILE PHOTO A US Air Force B-1B Lancer]Terrorists readying chemical attack to frame Damascus & provide pretext for US strikes – Russian MoD The meeting was called by Russia on Friday and held on Monday, August 27, Antonov said. He commended the US side for coming at such short notice, and described the meeting as "constructive and professional." At the meeting, Russia officially conveyed its concerns over reports that Washington together with France and the UK is gearing up for another set of airstrikes in Syria under the pretext of a chemical attack, that would immediately be blamed on the Syrian government. Moscow has asked Washington to "provide the facts without delay" to substantiate the new allegations that Damascus uses chemical weapons against its own people. Such rhetoric fanned by Washington may prompt militants and their "pseudo-humanitarian"organizations like the White Helmets to mount another provocation using chemical agents, Antonov warned. Intelligence that Russia has gathered has been shared with the US, and the diplomats were told "in detail" about the provocation against civilians being prepared by Al-Nusra Front (now known as Tahrir al-Sham) in the northwestern province of Idlib. Read more [Jabhat al-Nusra terrorists in Syria. © Ammar Abdullah]Planned chemical weapon provocation in Idlib aimed to prevent removal of terrorists – Lavrov The Russian Defense Ministry reported earlier that Tahrir al-Sham was plotting a chemical attack that would then be misrepresented as another "atrocity" by the "Syrian regime." Eight canisters of chlorine have been delivered to a village near Jisr al-Shughur city, and a specially trained group of militants, prepped by the British security company Olive, also arrived in the area to imitate a rescue operation to save the civilian "victims." Militants plan to use child hostages in the staged incident, according to Antonov. Moscow cautioned Washington against falling for this provocation, noting that a massive airstrike targeting Syria's military and civilian infrastructure will constitute another act of "groundless and illegal aggression" against Syria. "A new escalation in Syria does not correspond to interests of any party. We believe that our concern will be heard," Antonov said, adding that he hopes the US "will take every effort to prevent terrorists from using toxic chemicals and will be acting responsibly, in accordance with the status of the UN Security Council permanent member." President Trump's National Security Advisor John Bolton stated last week that the US "will respond very strongly" in case of a chemical attack by Damascus. The warning was interpreted by the Russian Defense Ministry as a veiled confirmation that the US has been considering an airstrike on Syria similar to the one it carried out in April, alongside France and the UK. Unlike Damascus, militants have plenty to gain from a potential chemical attack in Idlib, former Pentagon official Michael Maloof told RT. “They are not going to give up, they are not going to stop and try to negotiate any kind of peace, so it’s to their benefit to try and raise international sympathy that they have been the victim once again and try and turn this war in their favor,” he said. There is little hope that the US will treat a potential false flag attack by hardline militants in any way differently than it did the chemical incident in the town of Douma on April 7, 2018, Maloof added. Back then, the US, France and the UK launched a series of strikes against multiple targets in Syria just seven days after reports that some 70 people were killed due to exposure to a highly toxic chemical agent, possibly sarin. “If history is any precedent, they won’t bother. They did not investigate the last episode before they launched a missile attack into Syria and there’s no reason to suspect that they will this time either,” he said, adding that Washington will not hesitate to point the finger at Damascus and the Russian government. “The whole idea is to embarrass Moscow and to intimidate Damascus,” he said.On Aug 29, 2018, at 15:46, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: I watched the Blackstone podcast, the IP address is strange in that it is “VOA" in the middle. I hope thats not “Voice of America,” which is hardly credible. We know Russia has warned the “western powers” against another fake chemical weapons attack on Syria, and people have been leaving Idlib, a most important area of Syria, in droves today as reported by alternative news. It is a worrisome situation, with two great powers the US and Russia at military odds. Most of us are not surprised that the US hasn’t given up on Syria, they couldn’t achieve regime change so plan B is partition. If they can just control Idlib province ……… On Aug 28, 2018, at 15:25, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM To: Robert Naiman; Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Dir ector Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 30 12:39:53 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 12:39:53 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The latest on Syria, a very dangerous situation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Russia gives US intel on planned chemical weapons provocation in Syria Published time: 30 Aug, 2018 03:24Edited time: 30 Aug, 2018 09:45 Get short URL [Russia gives US intel on planned chemical weapons provocation in Syria] Tahrir al-Sham Islamist rebels in Syria © Khalil Ashawi / Reuters * 1152 * * 35 * * * * Moscow has briefed US diplomats on a plan by militants to stage a false flag chemical weapons attack in Syria's Idlib province meant to frame Damascus, the Russian ambassador in the US has said. Anatoly Antonov, the Russian ambassador in Washington, confirmed to the media on Wednesday that he had met with the US special representative to Syria, James Jeffrey, and David M. Satterfield, acting assistant secretary of state for near eastern affairs. The attendees of the rare meeting and the fact that it had taken place earlier this week was revealed by US State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert during a daily briefing. Read more [FILE PHOTO A US Air Force B-1B Lancer]Terrorists readying chemical attack to frame Damascus & provide pretext for US strikes – Russian MoD The meeting was called by Russia on Friday and held on Monday, August 27, Antonov said. He commended the US side for coming at such short notice, and described the meeting as "constructive and professional." At the meeting, Russia officially conveyed its concerns over reports that Washington together with France and the UK is gearing up for another set of airstrikes in Syria under the pretext of a chemical attack, that would immediately be blamed on the Syrian government. Moscow has asked Washington to "provide the facts without delay" to substantiate the new allegations that Damascus uses chemical weapons against its own people. Such rhetoric fanned by Washington may prompt militants and their "pseudo-humanitarian"organizations like the White Helmets to mount another provocation using chemical agents, Antonov warned. Intelligence that Russia has gathered has been shared with the US, and the diplomats were told "in detail" about the provocation against civilians being prepared by Al-Nusra Front (now known as Tahrir al-Sham) in the northwestern province of Idlib. Read more [Jabhat al-Nusra terrorists in Syria. © Ammar Abdullah]Planned chemical weapon provocation in Idlib aimed to prevent removal of terrorists – Lavrov The Russian Defense Ministry reported earlier that Tahrir al-Sham was plotting a chemical attack that would then be misrepresented as another "atrocity" by the "Syrian regime." Eight canisters of chlorine have been delivered to a village near Jisr al-Shughur city, and a specially trained group of militants, prepped by the British security company Olive, also arrived in the area to imitate a rescue operation to save the civilian "victims." Militants plan to use child hostages in the staged incident, according to Antonov. Moscow cautioned Washington against falling for this provocation, noting that a massive airstrike targeting Syria's military and civilian infrastructure will constitute another act of "groundless and illegal aggression" against Syria. "A new escalation in Syria does not correspond to interests of any party. We believe that our concern will be heard," Antonov said, adding that he hopes the US "will take every effort to prevent terrorists from using toxic chemicals and will be acting responsibly, in accordance with the status of the UN Security Council permanent member." President Trump's National Security Advisor John Bolton stated last week that the US "will respond very strongly" in case of a chemical attack by Damascus. The warning was interpreted by the Russian Defense Ministry as a veiled confirmation that the US has been considering an airstrike on Syria similar to the one it carried out in April, alongside France and the UK. Unlike Damascus, militants have plenty to gain from a potential chemical attack in Idlib, former Pentagon official Michael Maloof told RT. “They are not going to give up, they are not going to stop and try to negotiate any kind of peace, so it’s to their benefit to try and raise international sympathy that they have been the victim once again and try and turn this war in their favor,” he said. There is little hope that the US will treat a potential false flag attack by hardline militants in any way differently than it did the chemical incident in the town of Douma on April 7, 2018, Maloof added. Back then, the US, France and the UK launched a series of strikes against multiple targets in Syria just seven days after reports that some 70 people were killed due to exposure to a highly toxic chemical agent, possibly sarin. “If history is any precedent, they won’t bother. They did not investigate the last episode before they launched a missile attack into Syria and there’s no reason to suspect that they will this time either,” he said, adding that Washington will not hesitate to point the finger at Damascus and the Russian government. “The whole idea is to embarrass Moscow and to intimidate Damascus,” he said.On Aug 29, 2018, at 15:46, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: I watched the Blackstone podcast, the IP address is strange in that it is “VOA" in the middle. I hope thats not “Voice of America,” which is hardly credible. We know Russia has warned the “western powers” against another fake chemical weapons attack on Syria, and people have been leaving Idlib, a most important area of Syria, in droves today as reported by alternative news. It is a worrisome situation, with two great powers the US and Russia at military odds. Most of us are not surprised that the US hasn’t given up on Syria, they couldn’t achieve regime change so plan B is partition. If they can just control Idlib province ……… On Aug 28, 2018, at 15:25, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: With McCain barely gone, alternative news is reporting Russia has sent ships to Syrian waters, while the U. S., France & Britain have theirs on the way. According to alternative Blackstone Intelligence Report, 8/28/18, Russia is attempting to stop a Western fake chemical weapons attack followed by a real offensive. I have found Blackstone to be trustworthy over time. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss Date: Mon, Aug 27, 20 18 10:57 PM To: Robert Naiman; Cc: Peace Discuss;peace; Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] The Other Side of John McCain "Here is a piece that Cockburn and I wrote in 1999 about a psychiatric evaluation of McCain underwent while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. The psych0logical portrait drawn by Spanish psychiatrist Fernando Barral is that of a deeply narcissistic personality, cold, hardened and largely devoid of human empathy, a man who seemed to view the bombing of civilian populations as a kind of sport. These aggressive personality traits have also characterized his nasty political career." –Jeffrey St. Clair https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/0 8/27/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal-2/ On Aug 27, 2018, at 6:09 PM, Robert Naiman > wrote: Here's our alert: @SenSchumer:Don’t rename Senate office building for divisive war advocate John McCain Don’t rename the Russell Senate office building for John McCain. John McCain divisively attacked Americans who oppose unconstitutional and endless wars. Paul Wellstone, who voted against the Iraq war, would be a more appropriate choice. http s://petitions.moveon.org/sign/senschumer-dont-rename?r_by=1135580 === Robert Naiman Policy Dir ector Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 5:56 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: Consortium News If the paeans to McCain by diverse political climbers seems detached from reality, it’s because they reflect the elite view of U.S. military interventions as a chess game, with the millions killed by unprovoked aggression mere statistics, says Max Blumenthal. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/27/the-other-side-of-john-mccain/ While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: Being Pro-Palestinian Doesn’t Make Jeremy Corbyn an Anti-Semite by As’ad AbuKhalil The Limits of Elizabeth Warren by Sam Husseini Introducing: Consortium News on Flash Points, Our Second Radio Show ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Thu Aug 30 13:47:59 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:47:59 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" In-Reply-To: References: <310sjqh8208pso8c1ppsohv3.1535557919090@email.lge.com>, Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2144EE@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> I have not in fact “focussed only on war” - but instead frequently insisted on the ingenuous SDS maxim, “Everything is connected!” - e.g., economics, identity politics, and the source of the present abortion contretemps - the ending of human lives. We’ve often said, “Our political views are that we’re against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." (Those who defend abortion contend that abortion doesn’t kill people.) Obviously I haven’t hesitated to “take up other issues ... in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I, the treatment of immigrants, ‘Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,’ Democrats, identity politics, ‘Cost of War,’” etc., as Karen charges. Other members of AWARE have been a bit reluctant to discuss these matters on our public TV program, ‘AWARE on the Air’ - originally designed as an open forum to publicize them locally. Of course it’s right that “Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern,” but the proper course on those issues - and even on opposing the war - is not immediately obvious and requires discussion. (E.g., Is antifa right? Is it even antiwar?) - especially now, when there is a concentrated attempt by the US political establishment to distract the anti-war movement with false “other issues of concern” (notably, Is Trump Putin’s puppet? Did Russia “meddle” in the US election?) There is a need to break through the disingenuous accounts - the worst I’ve ever seen - presented by MSM, the greatest propaganda system in history. AWARE from its beginning, almost two decades ago, was meant to be common ground for C-U to discuss questions about US war that were not perspicuous and to act locally on US war-making. It’s not clear to me how AWARE censors of email and social media are pursuing the interests of the anti-war movement. --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 5:01 PM To: bjornsona at ameritech.net Cc: Karen Aram via Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Sorry Anne, your statement : "Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in” is not Carl, he will not budge, focusing only on war, and criticizing those of us who do take up other issues. Every rally, or protest that has been done in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I , the treatment of immigrants, “Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,” he has criticized because it’s not related to war, and its organized by Democrats with whom he will not unite in common cause, or because its identity politics. He did finally attend a “Cost of War, panel discussion,” but wore me out attempting to convince him to do so. Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern, and he knows this well. I have been writing about this ad nauseum. You’ve missed a lot of conversations, being the newbie, the one new recruit to AWARE, along with James, though we have lost many more. The only issue he aligns the war movement with is “abortion” comparing it to "killing children with bombs.” The dozens of people I have met in this town who were once active members of AWARE, left primarily for that reason. We have the same problem with the local Green Party as well. Whatever ones personal views maybe on the abortion issue, they have no place on the AWARE FB page. As to prayer, it can’t hurt, but to rely upon it only, well we have millions of people who had nothing else, and they have ended up dead. I will participate in no further discussion on this topic, or on the Peace List . On Aug 29, 2018, at 09:26, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in, is what we need. I have a friend who thinks this one issue has been a major cause of many of our woes because so many potential activists put blinders on to the rest of the atrocities happening in the world. Joining up is the only way we will get anywhere. I appreciate ANSWER, Karen. If prayer and cohesion do not work, unfortunately it looks like bigger wars, starvation, earthquakes might do it. See USGS for increasing size and depth of earthquakes in Ring of Fire - moving to 6.5s (yet not corresponding release of pressure along U. S. Pacific coast). See web site SOTT predicting large crop yield losses across the globe from this year and difficult growth next year from volcanic ash covering sun and unpredictable weather. Hate to be gloomy..being realistic while MSM distracts. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: Karen Aram via Peace Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:09 AM To: peace; Cc: Subject:[Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group, I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate. Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R. Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below: "Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war. Abortion is the leading cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re “against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges. Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all, child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.” _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu Aug 30 13:55:27 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 13:55:27 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" In-Reply-To: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2144EE@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> References: <310sjqh8208pso8c1ppsohv3.1535557919090@email.lge.com> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2144EE@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: Carl Discussing issues in relation to “all is connected” is one thing, I give you credit for that, then continuously criticizing and attempting to discourage, those who take action on issues that are connected, is another. You do both. On Aug 30, 2018, at 06:47, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: I have not in fact “focussed only on war” - but instead frequently insisted on the ingenuous SDS maxim, “Everything is connected!” - e.g., economics, identity politics, and the source of the present abortion contretemps - the ending of human lives. We’ve often said, “Our political views are that we’re against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." (Those who defend abortion contend that abortion doesn’t kill people.) Obviously I haven’t hesitated to “take up other issues ... in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I, the treatment of immigrants, ‘Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,’ Democrats, identity politics, ‘Cost of War,’” etc., as Karen charges. Other members of AWARE have been a bit reluctant to discuss these matters on our public TV program, ‘AWARE on the Air’ - originally designed as an open forum to publicize them locally. Of course it’s right that “Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern,” but the proper course on those issues - and even on opposing the war - is not immediately obvious and requires discussion. (E.g., Is antifa right? Is it even antiwar?) - especially now, when there is a concentrated attempt by the US political establishment to distract the anti-war movement with false “other issues of concern” (notably, Is Trump Putin’s puppet? Did Russia “meddle” in the US election?) There is a need to break through the disingenuous accounts - the worst I’ve ever seen - presented by MSM, the greatest propaganda system in history. AWARE from its beginning, almost two decades ago, was meant to be common ground for C-U to discuss questions about US war that were not perspicuous and to act locally on US war-making. It’s not clear to me how AWARE censors of email and social media are pursuing the interests of the anti-war movement. --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 5:01 PM To: bjornsona at ameritech.net Cc: Karen Aram via Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Sorry Anne, your statement : "Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in” is not Carl, he will not budge, focusing only on war, and criticizing those of us who do take up other issues. Every rally, or protest that has been done in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I , the treatment of immigrants, “Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,” he has criticized because it’s not related to war, and its organized by Democrats with whom he will not unite in common cause, or because its identity politics. He did finally attend a “Cost of War, panel discussion,” but wore me out attempting to convince him to do so. Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern, and he knows this well. I have been writing about this ad nauseum. You’ve missed a lot of conversations, being the newbie, the one new recruit to AWARE, along with James, though we have lost many more. The only issue he aligns the war movement with is “abortion” comparing it to "killing children with bombs.” The dozens of people I have met in this town who were once active members of AWARE, left primarily for that reason. We have the same problem with the local Green Party as well. Whatever ones personal views maybe on the abortion issue, they have no place on the AWARE FB page. As to prayer, it can’t hurt, but to rely upon it only, well we have millions of people who had nothing else, and they have ended up dead. I will participate in no further discussion on this topic, or on the Peace List . On Aug 29, 2018, at 09:26, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in, is what we need. I have a friend who thinks this one issue has been a major cause of many of our woes because so many potential activists put blinders on to the rest of the atrocities happening in the world. Joining up is the only way we will get anywhere. I appreciate ANSWER, Karen. If prayer and cohesion do not work, unfortunately it looks like bigger wars, starvation, earthquakes might do it. See USGS for increasing size and depth of earthquakes in Ring of Fire - moving to 6.5s (yet not corresponding release of pressure along U. S. Pacific coast). See web site SOTT predicting large crop yield losses across the globe from this year and difficult growth next year from volcanic ash covering sun and unpredictable weather. Hate to be gloomy..being realistic while MSM distracts. Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone ------ Original message------ From: Karen Aram via Peace Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:09 AM To: peace; Cc: Subject:[Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group, I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate. Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R. Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below: "Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war. Abortion is the leading cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re “against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges. Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all, child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.” _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 15:17:42 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 10:17:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" In-Reply-To: References: <310sjqh8208pso8c1ppsohv3.1535557919090@email.lge.com> <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2144EE@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <0F2016DA-37C1-469D-9137-FF2D9008400E@gmail.com> Are you saying that "criticizing and attempting to discourage, those who take action on issues that are connected” (like antifa?) should be censored? How about debate without censorship, instead? > On Aug 30, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Carl > > Discussing issues in relation to “all is connected” is one thing, I give you credit for that, then continuously criticizing and attempting to discourage, those who take action on issues that are connected, is another. You do both. > > >> On Aug 30, 2018, at 06:47, Estabrook, Carl G > wrote: >> >> I have not in fact “focussed only on war” - but instead frequently insisted on the ingenuous SDS maxim, “Everything is connected!” - e.g., economics, identity politics, and the source of the present abortion contretemps - the ending of human lives. We’ve often said, “Our political views are that we’re against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." (Those who defend abortion contend that abortion doesn’t kill people.) >> >> Obviously I haven’t hesitated to “take up other issues ... in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I, the treatment of immigrants, ‘Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,’ Democrats, identity politics, ‘Cost of War,’” etc., as Karen charges. Other members of AWARE have been a bit reluctant to discuss these matters on our public TV program, ‘AWARE on the Air’ - originally designed as an open forum to publicize them locally. >> >> Of course it’s right that “Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern,” but the proper course on those issues - and even on opposing the war - is not immediately obvious and requires discussion. (E.g., Is antifa right? Is it even antiwar?) - especially now, when there is a concentrated attempt by the US political establishment to distract the anti-war movement with false “other issues of concern” (notably, Is Trump Putin’s puppet? Did Russia “meddle” in the US election?) There is a need to break through the disingenuous accounts - the worst I’ve ever seen - presented by MSM, the greatest propaganda system in history. >> >> AWARE from its beginning, almost two decades ago, was meant to be common ground for C-U to discuss questions about US war that were not perspicuous and to act locally on US war-making. It’s not clear to me how AWARE censors of email and social media are pursuing the interests of the anti-war movement. >> >> --CGE >> >> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net ] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net ] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 5:01 PM >> To: bjornsona at ameritech.net >> Cc: Karen Aram via Peace >> Subject: Re: [Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" >> >> Sorry Anne, your statement : >>> "Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in” >> >> is not Carl, he will not budge, focusing only on war, and criticizing those of us who do take up other issues. Every rally, or protest that has been done in relation to labor, racism, people like Alan Dershowitz speaking at the U of I , the treatment of immigrants, “Sanctuary City of Urbana Revision,” he has criticized because it’s not related to war, and its organized by Democrats with whom he will not unite in common cause, or because its identity politics. He did finally attend a “Cost of War, panel discussion,” but wore me out attempting to convince him to do so. >> >> Uniting people against war, requires we support other issues of concern, and he knows this well. I have been writing about this ad nauseum. You’ve missed a lot of conversations, being the newbie, the one new recruit to AWARE, along with James, though we have lost many more. The only issue he aligns the war movement with is “abortion” comparing it to "killing children with bombs.” >> >> The dozens of people I have met in this town who were once active members of AWARE, left primarily for that reason. We have the same problem with the local Green Party as well. >> >> Whatever ones personal views maybe on the abortion issue, they have no place on the AWARE FB page. >> >> As to prayer, it can’t hurt, but to rely upon it only, well we have millions of people who had nothing else, and they have ended up dead. >> >> I will participate in no further discussion on this topic, or on the Peace List . >> >> >>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 09:26, bjornsona--- via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> Carl is correct in a strategic sense that the only way Americans MIGHT join together right now while we still have a chance is if both sides gave a little on their "I will NEVER budge" issues. A COMPROMISE, not full scale giving in, is what we need. I have a friend who thinks this one issue has been a major cause of many of our woes because so many potential activists put blinders on to the rest of the atrocities happening in the world. Joining up is the only way we will get anywhere. I appreciate ANSWER, Karen. >>> >>> If prayer and cohesion do not work, unfortunately it looks like bigger wars, starvation, earthquakes might do it. See USGS for increasing size and depth of earthquakes in Ring of Fire - moving to 6.5s (yet not corresponding release of pressure along U. S. Pacific coast). See web site SOTT predicting large crop yield losses across the globe from this year and difficult growth next year from volcanic ash covering sun and unpredictable weather. Hate to be gloomy..being realistic while MSM distracts. >>> >>> Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone >>> >>> ------ Original message------ >>> From: Karen Aram via Peace >>> Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:09 AM >>> To: peace; >>> Cc: >>> Subject:[Peace] Carl's posting related to alignment of "war and abortion" >>> >>> Carl’s letter to the NG below is fine, it’s his opinion and he has a right to express his opinion , placing it on FB along with the Peace Discuss List, is also his right. However, when he places it on the AWARE FB page, where he represents the AWARE group, I must object. I now see why the group has failed to recruit new members, and has lost many from previous years, given its affiliation with anti-abortion issues, not just war, that along with the election of Obama, on the assumption he was a peace candidate. >>> >>> Carl is right on target, when his focus is on anti-war, which is why I have always supported him and AWARE, but now he has taken AWARE to the “right,” along with his apologist attitude towards Trump, thus I recommend the ANSWER Coalition with their local group now in Champaign, for those interested in supporting the anti-war movement. >>> >>> Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R . >>> >>> Please also see Carl’s letter on the AWARE FB page below: >>> >>> "Anti-war and anti-abortion efforts belong together. The contemporary anti-war movement grows out of the appalling fact that the US government has killed more than 20 million people in almost 40 nations since World War II - and has done so to maintain the economic control of the world that the US inherited as the only largely undamaged major country after that war. >>> Abortion is the leading cause of death in the US today. An abortion obviously ends a human life; it ought to be opposed by all of us who say that our political views are that we’re “against anything that kills people or destroys the planet we live on." >>> But most of my friends who’ve had an abortion or seriously considered it have done so for economic reasons. Most of them privileged people, they have been unable to countenance the burdens, financial and personal, that would come with a(nother) child. That’s clearly even more the case for those who lack their privileges. >>> Those of us opposed to the destruction of human life - at home or abroad, before or after birth - must also be opposed to the circumstances that lead people to end unborn human lives. Medicare for all, child supports, free education, and a universal basic income must be insisted upon by those of us who are opposed to abortion and war.” >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Thu Aug 30 21:07:54 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:07:54 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Honored by Peace Award References: <5b8837cc1eeed_6a394ed4348323459f1@ip-10-0-0-210.mail> Message-ID: <8C6B5790-C022-4080-A106-3D30F597049C@illinois.edu> From: World BEYOND War > Subject: Honored by Peace Award Date: August 30, 2018 [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/wbwnosub300.jpg] [https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/data/000/208/867/original/peaceaward.jpg]At the Veterans For Peace Convention in St. Paul, Minnesota, U.S., on August 26, 2018, the U.S. Peace Memorial Foundation awarded its 2018 Peace Prize to David Swanson, director of World BEYOND War. Michael Knox, Chair of the U.S. Peace Memorial Foundation, remarked: “We have a culture of war in the U.S. Americans who oppose a war are often labeled traitors, unpatriotic, un-American, and antimilitary. As you know, to work for peace you must be brave and make great personal sacrifices. . . . “Previous Peace Prize recipients over the past ten years are the honorable Ann Wright, Veterans for Peace, Kathy Kelly, CODEPINK, Chelsea Manning, Medea Benjamin, Noam Chomsky, Dennis Kucinich, and Cindy Sheehan. [https://can2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/data/000/208/865/original/image014.gif]“I am very pleased to announce that our 2018 Peace Prize is awarded to the honorable David Swanson – For his inspiring antiwar leadership, writings, strategies, and organizations which help to create a culture of peace. “Thank you David for dedicating your life to ending wars. You are one of the most prolific writers, speakers, activists, and organizers for peace. The breadth of your work is staggering. You have enlightened us with books that are in the forefront of modern antiwar thought; and with speeches, debates, conferences, blogs, billboards, radio shows, online courses, videos, websites, and more innovative ideas than we can name. We want you to know that your efforts are greatly appreciated here and around the world.” ________________________________ Sadly, the award does not help fund World BEYOND War's work. Only you do that, and we can't continue without your support. CONTRIBUTE AT: https://worldbeyondwar.org/donate OR BY MAIL: check payable to: World BEYOND War/AFGJ. (You have to add AFGJ, please don’t forget!) Mail it to World BEYOND War, PO Box 1484, Charlottesville VA 22902, USA To use Paypal go here. MONTHLY SUSTAINERS: If you are not already a monthly sustainer, please consider becoming one. And select one of these thank-you gifts. Your donation to WBW qualifies as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit charitable gift, which is tax deductible in the United States. Planned Giving empowers WBW to continue its work until peace is realized worldwide. Learn more. When you register for a World Passport, World BEYOND War receives 20% of the proceeds. The world citizenship movement, which now numbers over 1,000,000 world citizens, was sparked by Garry Davis after WWII. Learn more and register for your World Passport today! Let us know if you have any questions or suggestions. Peace, The World BEYOND War team World BEYOND War is a global network of volunteers, activists, and allied organizations advocating for the abolition of the very institution of war. Our success is driven by a people-powered movement – support our work for a culture of peace. [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/wbwpledgelink.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/eventsbutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/shop.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/donatebutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/newsbutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/fb.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/twit.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/youtubeicon.jpg] World BEYOND War PO Box 1484 Charlottesville, VA 22902 USA Privacy policy. Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from World Beyond War, please click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 02:37:01 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:37:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Flyer Message-ID: [Flyer for the AWARE anti-war demonstration in downtown Champaign (Main & Neil Sts.), 2-4pm on Saturday, September 1, 2018] SEPTEMBER 1, 2018 ~ THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS MAKING WAR AROUND THE WORLD ...the clever hopes expire Of a low dishonest decade: Waves of anger and fear Circulate over the bright And darkened lands of the earth, Obsessing our private lives; The unmentionable odor of death Offends the September night. ...I and the public know What all schoolchildren learn, Those to whom evil is done Do evil in return. ...The enlightenment driven away, The habit-forming pain, Mismanagement and grief: We must suffer them all again. Into this neutral air Where blind skyscrapers use Their full height to proclaim The strength of Collective Man, Each language pours its vain Competitive excuse: But who can live for long In an euphoric dream; Out of the mirror they stare, Imperialism’s face And the international wrong. ...All the conventions conspire To make this fort assume The furniture of home; Lest we should see where we are, Lost in a haunted wood, Children afraid of the night Who have never been happy or good... --from ‘September 1, 1939’ by W. H. Auden (1907-73). Announcing, “We are finally shooting back,” Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, and World War II in Europe began. ~ Imperialism’s face and the international wrong today are the wars the U.S. is waging around the world, and its war provocations against Russia and China that risk a wider - even nuclear - war. ~ Although most Americans are not aware of it, the U.S. government is today waging war - and killing people - in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen - principally to control the flow of oil out of the Mideast and North Africa, which the US uses as a weapon against its economic rivals from Germany to China. ~ The ongoing drone assassination program - called by Noam Chomsky “the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times' - has killed thousands (most not the presumed targets), including American citizens and hundreds of children. ~ More than a quarter of a million US troops are stationed in a thousand US bases on foreign soil, most of them surrounding Russia and China. ~ The 70,000-members of the U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ are active in 75% of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder. The rest of the world recognizes that the U.S. today is what Martin Luther King called it long ago, the “greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” With other peace groups around the world, we call upon President Trump and the U.S. government to close all foreign military bases, bring all U.S. troops (and weapons) home, and provide social supports - including free medical care, education, and a universal basic income - for Americans, who have been immiserated by generations of U.S. government wars. AWARE, the ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Fri Aug 31 20:04:34 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 20:04:34 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Kankakee county jail ICE detention center / invitation to anti-detention rally Sat. Sept. 1, 1pm. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB214C6D@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> For those not able to make the trip, the regular monthly anti-war rally in Champaign (Main & Neil intersection) will be held 2-4pm tomorrow, September 1. ________________________________________ From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Medina via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 2:57 PM To: Peace List Subject: [Peace] Kankakee county jail ICE detention center / invitation to anti-detention rally Sat. Sept. 1, 1pm. Let's go to the anti-Immigration(and)CustomsEnforcement demonstration in Kankakee, Illinois. This event is very important because Kankakee County’s Jerome Combs Detention Center houses on average 150 ICE detainees per day! ! The Kankakee Sheriff wants to expand 32,000 additional square feet AND improve the Kankakee airport to expedite deportations. Kankakee is not the only ICE detention center in Illinois, but groups in Kankakee are taking a stand and have invited us to join them ! Shoes will be displayed to symbolize those we have lost through deportations. Bring a pair of shoes (or two) to donate. (After the event, shoes will be gifted to the Interfaith Community for Detained Immigrants and the Salvation Army). Distance: 83 miles one way, Time: 1 hour 20 minutes Route: I-57 Rally start time: 1pm Public transportation: * The Greyhound bus does not go there Saturday, September 1st. * The train does go. Rally to end ICE detention and expansion in Kankakee County. One less: Who will fill these shoes? https://www.facebook.com/events/369039113628227 Stand up -- karen medina "The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 20:08:24 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Peace & Life: Gosnell Movie/Unwelcome/Elections References: Message-ID: > > > > > Gosnell Movie > > The trailer is now out for Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer . The movie is based on the true story of an abortionist convicted of murdering newborn babies, and manslaughter of a woman. The movie is due out on October 12. > It’s uncommon for Hollywood to take a story like this seriously, and it’s likely to have trouble getting into some theaters – as it is, it’s an independent production funded through a Go Fund Me campaign. Any help on getting it to theaters, and getting theater goers to the movie, will be a tremendous boost to public education on the issue. > > > > ^^^^^^^ > > Pro-Lifers for Peace Not Welcome? > > Activists from member group Rehumanize International participated last weekend in the Pittsburgh March for Peace. While the activists were speaking to reporters covering the March, other attendees, who objected to Rehumanize’s pro-life stance on abortion, attempted to disrupt the interview. Rehumanize member Herb Geraghty, who was present at the confrontation, recounts it on Twitter . > That peace activists would not accept pro-lifers as allies is tragic—and counterproductive. As Herb puts it: “To say that you can’t be both anti-abortion and be involved in anti-war activism is absurd. People are being slaughtered in our name and our planet is literally dying all for the profits of the few. This is an emergency. We need everyone.” > > > Herb Geraghty, at Pittsburgh March for Peace > > ^^^^^^^ > > Election Season > > In the U.S., Labor Day (this year on September 3) is traditionally the start of campaign season for the November elections, after most of the primaries to select candidates have been held. So this is a good time to remind you that we have a page of suggestions for Actions at Election Time . You might also find valuable a resource from Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL; “Friends” being Quakers) on specific questions to ask about current peace and justice issues. FCNL has no position on abortion, but our creative minds can easily see the connections, and help others to understand them as well. In public forums, after all, it’s not just the candidates, but the audience being educated. > We also have bumper stickers and yard signs available. > > > > ^^^^^^^ > > Quotation of the Week > Battle Scars : Military Veterans and the Death Penalty > A Report by the Death Penalty Information Center > > When many of these veterans faced death penalty trials, their service and related illnesses were barely touched on as their lives were being weighed by judges and juries. Defense attorneys failed to investigate this critical area of mitigation; prosecutors dismissed, or even belittled, their claims of mental trauma from the war; judges discounted such evidence on appeal; and governors passed on their opportunity to bestow the country's mercy. In older cases, some of that dismissiveness might be attributed to ignorance about PTSD and related problems. But many of those death sentences still stand today when the country knows better. > > > > issue #426 08.31.18 > Consistent Life Web Page > Consistent Life Blog > List of All Blog Posts > Join or Donate > Previous Issues > Subjects Index > Quotations Topic Index > Flyers & Brochures to Download and Print > Buttons, Stickers, T-shirts, and Other Products > Recommended Books > > Click to view this email in a browser > > If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe > Click here to forward this email to a friend > > Consistent Life > P.O. Box 9295 > Silver Spring, MD 20916-9295 > US > Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: