[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday

Mon Aug 13 23:11:52 UTC 2018

Well said Karen!

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective
> than acting negatively towards others activism.
>
> As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before
> the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given
> up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against
> fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you
> weren’t set on being contentious.
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G <galliher at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant,
> "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)?
>
> Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and
> Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give
> the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...")
>
> --CGE
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on
> behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM
> *To:* E. Wayne Johnson
> *Cc:* peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC
> Yesterday
>
> You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I
> now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war,
> poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions
> related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better
> than that.”
>
>
> Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t
> legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and
> inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will
> not have any change in these conditions.
>
>
> Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or
> rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they
> are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop.
>
> It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now
> referred to as the “ left.”
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>
> I am not very impressed with the Democrats.  They dont believe in the Bill
> of Rights or freedom of expression.
> They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money
> and human lives it represents.
>
> I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is
> the KKK.
> I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an
> impact.
>
> The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK.
> If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what
> the KKK is doing.
>
> White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and
> it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to
> not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations.
>
> I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the
> Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about
> Nazis in America.  Not many people are going to buy into the notion
> that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood.
> It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening
> America?
>
> I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass.
>
>
> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote:
>
> Carl
>
> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the
> largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to
> that in his memoirs.
>
> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the
> Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of
> Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid
> as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was,
> many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at
> least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks,
> provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue.
>
> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote.
>
> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up.
> It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave
> up.
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36, bjornsona at ameritech.net wrote:
>
> Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or
> their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole
> Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday.
> Apparently,  #1 is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is
> what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so
> that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and
> pick them up when shopping.
> It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire.
>
> *Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone*
>
> ------ Original message------
> *From: *C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
> *Date: *Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM
> *To: *Karen Aram;
> *Cc: *peace;Peace Discuss;
> *Subject:*Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC
> Yesterday
>
> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of
> the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer
> reliable.
>
> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as
> “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of
> the impact of student protest on general consciousness.
>
> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war
> were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned.
>
> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for
> ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State
> announced, “Peace is at hand.”
>
> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE
> Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a
> similar pattern.
>
> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous
> cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and
> not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this
> rally did.
>
> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to
> be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every
> nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
> hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the
> success of liberty”!
>
> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a
> movement.
>
> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the
> US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t
> care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can
> argue that point all you want but the fact is:
>
>
> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq,
> was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats.
>
>
> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about
> Trump, and organized by the Democrats.
>
>
> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was
> there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest
> during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon
> eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the
> numbers.
>
>
> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets
> enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives.
>
>
> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the
> current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all,
> including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and
> coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking
> about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!”
>
> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is.
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> [image: ANSWER Coalition]
> <http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=1>
>
> [image: 15,000 gather against Nazis and KKK]
>
> Dear Karen,
>
> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there
> were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK,
> No Fascist USA”.
>
> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities:
> Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together
> to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front
> of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who
> occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and
> police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort
> for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and
> provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to
> Virginia.
>
> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days,
> but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone
> who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or
> donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud.
> Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this
> new movement even stronger.
>
> In solidarity,
> All of us at ANSWER Coalition
> http://www.answercoalition.org/
> <http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=2>
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