[Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on yesterdays News from Neptune

[Robert Naiman]

You're implying that I support Democrats indiscriminately. But I don't.
This move is part of your ongoing attempts to erase distinctions. This is
how the ultra-left is a de facto ally of the corporatist-militarist faction
of the national-Congressional Democratic Party.

Nobody you know is pounding harder on Pelosi-Hoyer-Engel right now than me.
You oppose that project, because for you all Democrats are the same, so you
see that project as a threat, instead of supporting it.

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Corral dissident democrats into supporting a neoliberal and
> neoconservative party, of course.
>
> And you choose to do that because they have ‘tanks and airplanes’?
>
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> wrote:
>
> "The latter need the distinctions to corral dissident democrats"
>
> Corral dissident democrats into doing what, as opposed to doing what?
>
> Ocasio-Cortez just ousted Crowley, the number four Democrat in the House.
>
> The probability that the Green Party could have accomplished that if
> Ocasio-Cortez hadn't primaried Crowley is practically indistinct from zero.
>
> The Hillary/Pelosi forces have tanks and airplanes.
>
> The Sanders/Ocasio-Cortez forces have rifles and shotguns.
>
> You have a squirt gun. That's the fundamental problem. Your "purity" is
> impotent.
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> Who’s erasing distinctions between Sanders-Ocasio and Hillary-Pelosi?
>>
>> The latter need the distinctions to corral dissident democrats, while the
>> party’s real commitments remain what they have been.
>>
>> As Bruce Dixon notes, "Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist too, just
>> with an imperialist foreign policy.”
>>
>> —CGE
>>
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2018, at 9:39 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Their sheepdogs - Sanders, Ocasio - are counsels of despair"
>>
>> Sanders ran against Hillary and came very close to bringing her down.
>>
>> Ocasio just toppled the number four Democrat in the House. During the
>> campaign, she refused to support Pelosi as Democratic Leader. After she
>> won, she had a public fight with Pelosi.
>>
>> There is, absolutely, tremendous corruption at the top of the Democratic
>> Party, if by "corruption" we mean not only "taking from the till" but also
>> "doing the opposite of what the people who elected you would want, because
>> that's what your rich friends want" when it comes to corporate power and
>> militarism.
>>
>> But erasing distinctions between Sanders-Ocasio and Hillary-Pelosi isn't
>> going to make that any better. On the contrary, to the extent that such
>> erasing of distinctions is successful, it will slow down the process of
>> holding Hillary-Pelosi Democrats to account.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The Clinton administration’s NAFTA is a main source of the disruption of
>>> Mexican agriculture that sends immigrants north.  It’s clear whom both
>>> Clintons and Obama were working for "at the presidential level.” Trump’s
>>> opposition to them gained him votes.
>>>
>>> And “a bunch of working class Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan, and
>>> Pennsylvania didn't trust Hillary" or Obama also on war - their kids were
>>> unable to find jobs, entered the military, and killed and died in
>>> Obama-Clinton’s hidden wars: <https://www.zerohedge.com/new
>>> s/2017-07-11/new-study-suggests-war-lust-may-have-cost-hilla
>>> ry-clinton-election>.
>>>
>>> Trump’s attacks on Obama-Clinton’s neoconservative and neoliberal
>>> policies - he was the first candidate since the rise of corporate globalism
>>> in the Carter administration to do that - made him president. The US
>>> political establishment has worked hard to make him conform to the
>>> Democrats' war and economic policies - and are still afraid they won’t
>>> succeed (given Singapore and Helsinki). And so they reassert the
>>> Russia-gate smear - as Durbin and senior ‘liberal’ Democrats did this week,
>>> as they called for the the suppression of Wikileaks and Julian Assange.
>>>
>>> Their sheepdogs - Sanders, Ocasio - are counsels of despair, or worse:
>>> attempts to gain votes for Democrats by advertising policies that the party
>>> will never institute. (“Well, we tried, but unfortunately…)
>>>
>>> But soi-disant progressives and Democrat front groups are working hard
>>> to mislead the public on what the party is actually doing. They know that
>>> if the public knew what the military and economic goals of the Democrat
>>> party were, they’d reject them.—CGE
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, somehow he got himself elected to Congress, which is more than any
>>> of us can say about ourselves.
>>>
>>> Not only that, he defeated a Democratic incumbent in a primary.
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem like a bad start.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 3:08 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At the risk of being irreverent, I don't know much about Khanna other
>>>> than the recent interviews on TRNN; but I hope he can develop some charisma
>>>> and personality, which might be necessary to effectively put forth a
>>>> dissident agenda, if that in fact is what he wants to do.
>>>>
>>>> DG
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 1:48 PM Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are institutions to hold them to account on some of their
>>>>> domestic economic policy stances. There's the AFL-CIO, for example. If you
>>>>> look at the last House vote on raising the minimum wage, every Democrat
>>>>> voted for it. If you look at the House vote on fast track trade negotiating
>>>>> authority for the TPP, almost every House Democrat voted against it, even
>>>>> though that was a vote against Obama, even though they hadn't finished
>>>>> negotiating the deal yet and the text was not public. But everyone could
>>>>> see where it was going. Most House Democrats listen to the AFL-CIO on
>>>>> domestic economic policy, including on trade policy, even against a
>>>>> Democratic President.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Clinton broke free of the AFL-CIO on trade at the presidential
>>>>> level. And since then, up until the present, there hasn't been a Democratic
>>>>> presidential nominee who didn't accept the Bill Clinton framework on trade.
>>>>> This is a key reason that Trump got elected. A bunch of working class
>>>>> Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania didn't trust Hillary on
>>>>> trade so they voted for Trump to kill the TPP dead. I can't say I blame
>>>>> them for not trusting Hillary on trade. The AFL-CIO claimed after the
>>>>> election that they had the votes in the House to kill the TPP in the lame
>>>>> duck session after the election. I'm not sure that I believe that. It's not
>>>>> what the AFL-CIO was saying before the election. I'm pretty sure that was a
>>>>> lie to cover up the AFL-CIO's role in the debacle. The AFL-CIO could have
>>>>> killed the TPP at the Democratic Convention. The Sanders forces had an
>>>>> amendment to the platform against the TPP, which amendment was supported by
>>>>> the Hillary labor delegates. But Obama threatened the pro-Hillary labor
>>>>> delegates, saying: if you amend the platform to oppose the TPP, I won't
>>>>> campaign for Hillary. The pro-Hillary labor leaders blinked. And this left
>>>>> a lot of people with the impression that if Hillary was elected, Obama was
>>>>> going to push the TPP through in the lame duck and enough Democrats would
>>>>> go along to make it happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> But regardless of all that, regardless of the problems with the
>>>>> AFL-CIO, etc., we have nothing like the AFL-CIO on foreign policy, war and
>>>>> peace, nothing close, nothing in the same league, nothing organized at all.
>>>>> Just a collection of NGOs like Win Without War which are accountable to
>>>>> no-one except their funders and which are very close to the House
>>>>> Democratic leadership, especially Nancy Pelosi. And that's why we haven't
>>>>> been able to get a vote in the House so far on getting the U.S. out of the
>>>>> unconstitutional Saudi war in Yemen. That's why I'm trying to get Ro Khanna
>>>>> to challenge Nancy Pelosi for the House Democratic leadership. So we can
>>>>> get votes in the House on war and peace.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Jul 1, 2018, at 12:40 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss <
>>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Carl, Your point is fantastic that there are no institutions to
>>>>>> hold so-called progressives or so-called liberals to any of their foreign
>>>>>> or domestic policy stances once elected. My Tea Party point, as I am sure
>>>>>> you understand,  is that there are no institutions to hold so-called
>>>>>> conservatives to their party policies either, once elected. If there were,
>>>>>> we would have a balanced budget and a decreasing deficit. Facts being
>>>>>> facts,  America has only One Party, no matter what label or geographic
>>>>>> direction it gives itself to attempt to gaslight the gullible.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > That old saying, that a problem cannot be solved at the level of
>>>>>> the mindset that created the problem in the first place, must be true here.
>>>>>> The One Party that serves its education-prison- military-industrial
>>>>>> corporate owners is the REAL master player of Identity Politics: splitting
>>>>>> un-AWARE Americans first into Republicans & Democrats, and then into
>>>>>> Libertarians, Conservatives, Christians, Deplorables, Liberals, the Left,
>>>>>> Anti-.fa, millenniels, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Conservative, liberal, left and right, as you and Counterpunch have
>>>>>> demonstrated, no longer mean what the words meant in years past. Those few
>>>>>> Americans who may believe any of the baloney being served us under those
>>>>>> labels are beyond convincing or worth discussing at this point. They will
>>>>>> just have to be dragged along as the rest of us change history.  A sports
>>>>>> "us" vs. "them" mentality will bury all of us if the "us" and "them" remain
>>>>>> fake Democrats & Republicans, liberals or conservatives. The only "us" that
>>>>>> means anything are the 99% and the only "them" that means anything are the
>>>>>> 8, 000 people in the world with half the world's wealth. The 1500
>>>>>> billionaires . The alphabet agencies & the oil companies. I may not know
>>>>>> all the "thems" - I sure know the "us".
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I had stopped watching "Real Time with Bill Maher" because he was
>>>>>> such a staunch Hillary supporter. However, if you had a chance to catch his
>>>>>> show last Friday, 6/29/18, it was interesting. Guest  Lawrence Wilkerson,
>>>>>> debunking Russiagate, and Bill and Michael Moore begging Americans to get
>>>>>> out in the streets against fascism. Michael Moore was nearly crying. There
>>>>>> was such a sense of urgency and that things have gone too far.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Needless to say- not a Happy 4th .
>>>>>> > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ------ Original message------
>>>>>> > From: Carl G. Estabrook
>>>>>> > Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 12:54 AM
>>>>>> > To: bjornsona at ameritech.net;
>>>>>> > Cc: Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss;Karen Aram;Robert
>>>>>> Naiman;peace-discuss at anti-war.net;
>>>>>> > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on yesterdays
>>>>>> News from Neptune
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://www.blackagendareport.com/magical-thinking-vs-sober-
>>>>>> analysis-ocasio-cortez-victory-ny
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "In my previous piece and Facebook posts I never touched on how
>>>>>> socialist Ocasio-Cortez is or isn't nor on her foreign policy stands if she
>>>>>> has any, which Berniecrats frequently don't, something that ought to make
>>>>>> us a little uneasy. Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist too, just with
>>>>>> an imperialist foreign policy. I did say that progressive candidates and
>>>>>> officeholders do sometimes flip, a little at a time or all at once, and
>>>>>> when they do we have no institutions with which to punish them. "Feet to
>>>>>> the fire" and "holding them accountable" are actually the phrases of
>>>>>> magical thinkers because no means have yet been devised which enable the
>>>>>> left to do those things.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "I got in trouble for observing that while we can elect
>>>>>> progressives from time to time we cannot compel them to remain that way.
>>>>>> Until we figure out how to build institutions that can, we are at the mercy
>>>>>> of their individual moral and political compasses. The need to develop left
>>>>>> institutions to which progressive candidates can be held responsible is an
>>>>>> acute one, which the Nation in its slavish devotion to the Democratic party
>>>>>> predictably ignores. Noting this truth got me accused of being a petty,
>>>>>> lazy purist and ultraleftist. Oh well. Sober analysis may not be what some
>>>>>> people wanna hear at a victory party where everybody’s popping champagne
>>>>>> corks, dancing the electric slide and toasting the universal lessons of the
>>>>>> Ocasio-Cortez victory without the bother of real analysis…"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > —CGE
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > On Jun 30, 2018, at 9:04 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > That Everyman article could be written exactly the same way 10
>>>>>> years ago to Tea Party Republicans.  Change "Democrat- change it to R
>>>>>> Republican.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > ------ Original message------
>>>>>> > > From: Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss
>>>>>> > > Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 6:11 PM
>>>>>> > > To: Karen Aram;
>>>>>> > > Cc: Robert Naiman
>>>>>> > ;peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>>>>>> > ;Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss;
>>>>>> > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on
>>>>>> yesterdays News from Neptune
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > https://americaneveryman.com/2018/06/30/ajamu-baraka-pushes-
>>>>>> dementer-with-the-ocasio-cortez-placebo-my-position-statemen
>>>>>> t-on-ocasio-cortez/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > It’s unclear where Ocasio is herself - but not the Democratic
>>>>>> party.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >> On Jun 30, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Karen Aram
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >> Very good, thank you Stuart. Let’s all keep our fingers crossed
>>>>>> that she is able to stand by her declarations. Anything David Swanson has
>>>>>> to say is good enough for me.
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >>> On Jun 30, 2018, at 10:38, stuartnlevy
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> It is there right now.
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> The
>>>>>> > antiwar.com
>>>>>> >  thread quotes Ocasio on June 27th that it hadn't been deliberately
>>>>>> removed, and she was looking into it.  So she did, and the statement is
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> I haven't compared it with the previous version, but David
>>>>>> Swanson says it is both lengthened and improved.  He supports it and urges
>>>>>> his readers to let her know they do too.
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>  -- Stuart
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>>> > >>> From: "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>> Date: 6/30/18 11:15 (GMT-06:00)
>>>>>> > >>> To: Robert Naiman
>>>>>> > , peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>> Cc: peace
>>>>>> > , "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss" , Karen Aram
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on
>>>>>> yesterdays News from Neptune
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>> This is the piece removed from her website, wasn’t it? Has it
>>>>>> been put back?
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>>> On Jun 30, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > https://ocasio2018.com/issues
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> [...]
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> A Peace Economy
>>>>>> > >>>> Since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the United States has
>>>>>> entangled itself in war and occupation throughout the Middle East and North
>>>>>> Africa. As of 2018, we are currently involved in military action in Libya,
>>>>>> Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia. Hundreds of
>>>>>> thousands of civilians in these countries have been killed either as
>>>>>> collateral damage from American strikes or from the instability caused by
>>>>>> U.S. interventions. Millions more have fled their broken countries,
>>>>>> contributing to the global refugee crisis.
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> This continued action damages America’s legitimacy as a force
>>>>>> for good, creates new generations of potential terrorists, and erodes
>>>>>> American prosperity. In times when we’re told that there’s not enough
>>>>>> money, Republicans and corporate Democrats seem to find the cash to fund a
>>>>>> $1.1 trillion fighter jet program or a $1.7 trillion-dollar nuclear weapon
>>>>>> “modernization” program. The costs are extreme: the Pentagon’s budget for
>>>>>> 2018 is $700 billion dollars: to continue fighting an endless War on Terror
>>>>>> and refighting the Cold War with a new arms race that nobody can win.
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> According to the Constitution, the right to declare war
>>>>>> belongs to the legislative body, and yet many of these global acts of
>>>>>> aggression have never once been voted on by Congress. In some cases, we've
>>>>>> even acted unilaterally, without the backing of the United Nations.
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> America should not be in the business of destabilizing
>>>>>> countries. While we may see ourselves as liberators, the world increasingly
>>>>>> views us as occupiers and aggressors. Alexandria believes that we must end
>>>>>> the "forever war" by bringing our troops home, and ending the air strikes
>>>>>> that perpetuate the cycle of terrorism throughout the world.
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> By bringing our troops home, we can begin to heal the wounds
>>>>>> we're opening by continuing military engagement. We can begin to repair our
>>>>>> image. We can reunite military families, separated by repeated deployments.
>>>>>> We can become stronger by building stronger diplomatic and economic ties,
>>>>>> and by saving our armed forces only for when they're truly needed.
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> [...]
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> > >>>> Policy Director
>>>>>> > >>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> >  naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > (202) 448-2898
>>>>>> >  x1
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss
>>>>>> >  wrote:
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2018/06/28/as-election-day-appr
>>>>>> oached-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-removed-antiwar-foreign-poli
>>>>>> cy-section-from-her-we
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>>
>>>>>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >>>
>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > > Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20180702/652c213a/attachment-0003.html>