[Peace-discuss] Bend the Arc

C G Estabrook cgestabrook at gmail.com
Sat Jul 7 22:56:22 UTC 2018 

An abortion ends a human life. Those of us who are opposed to the ending of human lives by war and exploitation should also be opposed to the ending of human live for economic and eugenic reasons, as abortion does:

"Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” —Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The way to combat poverty is not to get the poor to kill their children but to provide healthcare for all, child allowances, adoption support, free eduction thru college, etc.

Socialism is the cure for abortion. —CGE  
 

> On Jul 7, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I couldn’t agree more that abortion is a class issue. Women with the means have always been able to obtain abortion. Poor women whatever their race, are being left without that choice. The race component enters when we look at the demographics of poverty. 
> 
> Goodbye
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2018, at 15:28, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> But you could just as well say: how can you separate abortion rights from questions of race and class? The abortion rights of white middle-class college-educated married women in blue states are never going to be taken away. The religious right can appoint nine right-wing Supreme Court justices, they're never going to be able to touch that. Increased criminalization of abortion is only going to hit the most vulnerable women, poor, women of color, young, abused, beset on every side by too many problems with not enough help. This is the devil's bargain that the anti-abortion people are making: they know very well they will never be able to ban abortion completely, so they're going to content themselves with taking abortion rights away from the most vulnerable women. Why isn't that an anti-racist issue? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>> Robert: 
>> That was the whole point, and why David posted the article from Mondoweiss. Bend the Arc, according to the article “separates” foreign policy from domestic.”  One can interpret that anyway one wishes, as some readers evidently do. 
>> 
>> For many of us, separating the two is impossible, because US foreign policy is the driver behind many of the domestic issues/problems we are suffering today.
>> 
>> I was attempting to explain, why David posted the article, it was in response to my query about BTH.
>> 
>> Stuart:
>>  I was joking when I said I was “bothered” neither I nor the other socialists were offended, when told why BTH would not work with us, mention of Palestine was secondary, we actually found it quite amusing given its so “50”s, being practiced by those referring to themselves as “progressives.” 
>> Amusing even more was a couple of us, socialists, then supporting you in preventing someone from being blocked because he is an anarchist, given “one never knows what an anarchist might do, something to that effect was stated.” 
>> 
>> It should be noted, a third reason was given, “they, BTH want to unseat Rodney Davis.  What that had to do with us being socialists, I know not, given we certainly agree unseating Rodney Davis is a worthwhile cause, which any of us certainly supports. 
>> 
>> I’m finished with this conversation and topic. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2018, at 14:07, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is the principled basis of the critique here? 
>>> 
>>> Bend the Arc doesn't work on foreign policy. 
>>> 
>>> AWARE doesn't work on abortion rights. 
>>> 
>>> What's the difference? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Policy Director
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> So glad to hear that Stuart, not that its changed my mind regarding BTA. However, I do applaud them for doing good things, especially going ahead and organizing a second anti-ICE rally. I hope they, and or others continue to do so. 
>>> 
>>> Never mind that they backed out of working with us because some of us are socialists, you’re not a socialist so that probably doesn’t bother you, I am, so it does, and I was curious over their perceived concern that  “someone might mention Palestine.” 
>>> 
>>> The article David Green posted from Mondoweiss, does explain, their separation of foreign policy from domestic.  
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 19:15, stuartnlevy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think Bend the Arc has been doing some good work.  It doesn't bother me that they didn't cosponsor the Drury Inn demonstration but instead worked on another very successful demonstration in support of just immigration - as they had also done during the winter.   It doesn't bother me that they don't also address all the issues that I think are important.  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  -- Stuart
>>>> 
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>>>> Date: 7/6/18 18:01 (GMT-06:00)
>>>> To: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>>
>>>> Cc: "Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>)" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Bend the Arc
>>>> 
>>>> That maybe what you were told, but not what I was told, and as I said it wasn’t just about Israel, it was about the politics of many of the organizers. 
>>>> 
>>>> As to BTA, I have no familiarity with them other than this one experience, and the article David just posted. 
>>>> 
>>>> We all should be unifying, they had their chance as an organization, they chose not to do so. 
>>>> 
>>>> I commend you, given our differences, for working with us on the Medea project in our continuing efforts to prevent further wars.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 15:51, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It wasn't just that 'mention of “Palestine" might come up'. A number of people in the group objected to specific things that they feared "anti-Israel" people would say and they didn't want to be associated with that. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Full disclosure: I'm not quite a member, but sort of a lurker on the outskirts of the local BtA chapter. I'm trying to encourage them to do good things and not do bad things, within the ambit of what is realistic for them to do and not do. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I encouraged them to co-sponsor the anti-ICE demo on the basis of a specific agreement about what would and wouldn't happen in the demo rather than have a blanket policy of not participating in a demo co-sponsored by SJP. A number of people were open to that, and I actually thought that position might win out. Then I found out that they had decided not to participate, following some conversations that I didn't see that I think involved national BtA staff. So I don't completely know what happened with that. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't endorse the politics of many of their members. But I'm against bashing them as a group for stuff that is outside their remit as a group, as they understand it. Indeed, I've been encouraging them to stay out of Israel politics, consistent with the national BtA line, because I know that if they got involved in Israel politics  their positions would be bad. If you want to attack Jewish communal institutions that actively support Israeli government violations of Palestinian human rights, that's a target-rich environment, there's a very long list. I don't see what the utility for Palestinians of bashing BtA is. Perhaps it serves some other objective. But picking on BtA isn't going to stop a single Palestinian house from being knocked down. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you think you know more about this than I do, bring it on. You don't, and I've got all day, and the next day, and the day after that. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 5:26 PM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>> Because Bend the Arc, backed out of working with socialist/ Marxist groups on the rally opposing ICE we had at the Drury Inn, on the 23rd, we had over 300 people. They feared mention of “Palestine" might come up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That may not bother you Bob, but you didn’t back out of co-sponsoring Medea’s presence here even though association with socialists took place. You looked at the “bigger picture”, rather than petti politics.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, BTA did do their own rally on the 30th, though it would have been better had we been united. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, these good things people do for their communities, and immigrants, isn’t a real solution. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A real solution would be to stop creating the immigrants, who should be referred to as “refugees,” because that is what they are, refugees fleeing US wars and interventions, sanctions, NAFTA and crime. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Attempts to keep the American people ignorant of the connection between foreign policy and domestic, supports and continues the killings and destruction.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 15:15, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The link works for me now. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> BtA was explicitly set up to be an organization that works only on U.S. domestic justice issues, not U.S. foreign policy, including not Israel. It's foundational, it's constitutional, that's what they were set up to do and not do. There is zero possibility of moving them on this. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From what I know of the local chapter here, if they took positions on U.S. foreign policy, their positions would be horrible, certainly no better than those of the Jewish Federation. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, they're very good on opposing anti-Muslim prejudice and anti-refugee prejudice, which are also things that need to be done. I also understand that some of them are working to try to get the Champaign ordinance allowing landlords to discriminate against ex-prisoners repealed, which is another thing that needs to be done. And which project, I understand, could use some help right now from people who live in Champaign. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So, why not let them work on the things that they're good on, instead of picking on them and trying to bully them for not working on issues that they would be bad on, which there is zero possibility that they're going to do in any event? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> http://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/progressive-jewish-justice/ <http://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/progressive-jewish-justice/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, it's still there.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just to clarify, Bend the Arc is a national Jewish progressive organization with a local chapter; it is criticized in this article for not considering foreign policy, which is the experience that AWARE members have had with it locally.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> DG
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> This link doesn't work for me. I searched on the web and that link doesn't work either. Maybe they took the article down?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org <http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
>>>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:14 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> http://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/progressive-jewish-justice/ <http://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/progressive-jewish-justice/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20180707/5e4e6d9d/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Peace-discuss mailing list