[Peace-discuss] Democratic Socialists

Fri Jul 20 12:18:34 UTC 2018

To all:

Democrats, Republicans it matters not who is in power, US foreign policy continues as if on auto pilot, bringing us perpetual war. The difference is ‘strategy,’ that is “which nation do we take on next, or if we can’t obtain regime change, do we partition, and where do we draw those lines of partition." “Do we support this group of “moderate terrorists” or this other group of moderate terrorists, or maybe both.” Can we talk peace with Putin, and pull him into our orbit away from China, or do we continue focusing on russiagate continuing to make him the boogie man responsible for all, maybe we will achieve regime change as a result. We achieve our goal of keeping the American people distracted from what we are doing, if not to them here, then to the thousands of people elsewhere in the world.

Then we have N. Korea, again "can we drive a wedge between N. Korea and China, we don’t want reunification of the Korean Peninsula, so we’ll talk peace, but ensure conditions that N. Korea can’t accept.”

Then there is Iran, we don’t really want war with Iran, that could be disastrous for all, some in the Pentagon know this, though others do not care.  Sanctions will do the job of creating enough chaos and dissatisfaction within the nation, we should be able to achieve regime change without war, never mind the thousands we kill with our sanctions whether N.Korea or Iran.

We continue to create chaos in Venezuela, damn, didn’t expect Maduro to win the election, guess we better buy some more protestors, dissidents, create more problems.

We have Africom in 53 of the 54 nations of Africa, they are not there to protect anyone or anything.

We have Nato surrounding Russia, Nato is not defending or protecting anyone. Anyone notice what’s happening in Montenegro?

Yemen with millions dying, just keep supporting the Saudi’s with weapons, training, and logistics, without which they could do nothing. Our friends, never mind 9/11, never mind they are one of the most brutal nations in the world, a little more PR is all that is needed to keep the American people from taking notice.

Oh, and Israel, the continued killing and destruction of the Palestinians, maybe we need more media coverage of something, to divert attention from the deaths there, at the hands of another of our allies.

The beat goes on and Americans keep looking at elections, and who is better than who, keep them fighting and arguing as if it all matters. As if good cop vs. bad cop in power isn’t real.

On Jul 19, 2018, at 22:08, bjornsona at ameritech.net<mailto:bjornsona at ameritech.net> wrote:

2 Democratic Socialists walk into a bar..

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630394669/getting-to-know-the-dsa

 from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------
From: bjornsona at ameritech.net<mailto:bjornsona at ameritech.net>
Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2018 11:48 PM
To: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss;Stuart Levy;C G Estabrook;David Johnson;
Cc: Karen Aram;
Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Those evil Russians

There was a very nice discussion on NPR today about how Democratic Socialism is growing in popularity, particularly among younger voters.

Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original message------
From: Estabrook, Carl G via Peace-discuss
Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2018 10:20 PM
To: Stuart Levy;C G Estabrook;David Johnson;
Cc: Peace Discuss;Karen Aram;
Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Those evil Russians

There was an anti-Russia - even pro-war - demonstration on the floor of the House tonight: Democrats chanting, "USA! USA!"

The Republicans didn't join in.

________________________________
From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:[peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:[peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 9:59 PM
To: C G Estabrook; David Johnson
Cc: Peace Discuss; Karen Aram
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Those evil Russians

You'd raised the question a few months ago, Which party would be least likely to push for war?

My broad answer: I think we're best off at times when the political system is deadlocked.   Remember 2013, when the Obama admin. was all set to attack Syria directly, and backed off when they realized that Congress wouldn't go for it - especially the Republicans who would oppose anything O. supported.

So by that logic, we don't want a House, Senate, and Pres of all the same party.   We're stuck with this Pres for at least a couple more years.

On 07/19/2018 06:39 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote:
This raises the question, which party given control of Congress in the fall elections will be more progressive?

For generations US liberals have answered immediately, “The Democrats!," In spite of wars and accelerating inequality under Democratic administrations. (No president has been at war throughout two terms - until Obama.)

But given the Russia-gate campaign, and the excoriation of President Trump’s peace talks with North Korea and Russia, it seems clear that Democrats' commitment to the ‘war party” disqualifies them from control of the Congress.

Some people (often outside the US political scene) saw this clearly from early on. The Australian journalist and filmmaker John Pilger wrote before the 2016 election, "The CIA has demanded Trump not be elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he not be elected. The pro-war New York Times - taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears - demands that he not be elected. Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Russian president Putin, then with China’s president Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire…”

The war-mongering of the Democrats may require our voting for feckless Republicans, as in this Congressional district (IL-13). That seems to be - deplorably enough - the only anti-war position. —CGE

On Jul 17, 2018, at 10:50 AM, David Johnson via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Very well said Karen.

I can only add to your list – The Russians aren’t preventing the American people from having ; universal PUBLIC healthcare, free post high school education, $ 15 minimum wage, clean renewable energy, public control of our water systems and utilities as well as secure retirement pensions. The ones preventing all of the above are the Democrats and the Republicans as you so accurately said.

David J.

From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:13 AM
To: Peace Discuss; peace
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Those evil Russians

Vince Emanuele:

The Russians didn't gut, attack and destroy unions in the U.S. The Russians aren't responsible for NAFTA, TPP, GATT, outsourcing, corporate welfare, etc. The Russians didn't deregulate the financial industry, allowing Wall Street to destroy our economy and create unprecedented wealth/income inequality. The Russians aren't killing young black kids in the streets. The Russians didn't militarize the police. The Russians didn't create the War on Drugs. The Russians didn't create the School-to-Prison pipeline. The Russians aren't responsible for slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, or the Prison Industrial Complex. The Russians didn't invade Iraq and Afghanistan, spending $3.6 trillion. The Russians didn't poison kids in Flint or East Chicago. The Russians didn't divest in our nation's infrastructure.
The Russians didn't nominate Hillary Clinton, the second most loathed politician in modern history. The Russians didn't subsidize the U.S. fossil fuel industry, allowing the most destructive industries on the planet to kill the living world with no consequences. The Russians didn't destroy the public school system in the U.S., allowing charter schools to privatize public goods. The Russians didn't create our homeless population or shut down our mental health facilities. The Russians didn't enact the Patriot Act, stripping our civil liberties and creating institutions like ICE. The Russians didn't create our immigration crisis, nor are they responsible for putting kids in cages throughout the U.S.
The Russians didn't clear cut old growth forests in the Pacific Northwest, nor did they dam our rivers and kill the salmon. The Russians didn't strip American women of their reproductive rights, or allow the NRA to control our legislative bodies. The Russians didn't allow media corporations to consolidate into five companies that control everything we see, read, or hear. The Russians didn't overthrow democratically elected governments throughout the Western Hemisphere. The Russians didn't allow the pharmaceutical industry to create a nation of addicts. And the Russians aren't allowing U.S. veterans to die by the thousands waiting for treatment.
You must be thinking of the Democrats and Republicans....
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