[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Voting anti-war in tomorrow's primary (2)

Thu Mar 22 13:50:09 UTC 2018

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 8:19 AM, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
wrote:

You’re very funny, John.
>
> You did note that I mentioned what the Democrats are doing today, didn’t
> you?
>
> I look forward to their immediate forswearing of their vicious and
> dangerous attempt to get Trump to provoke war with Russia.
>

'Snot what they're doing, Carl.  They just don't think that tRump should be
fellating Putin.

Truth is, I don't know what ANYONE in Washington is doing, aside from
lining their own pockets and making empty speeches.  I do know, on the
other hand, that tRump is such a fool that he's liable to do absolutely
anything, vacillating wildly between being Kim Jong-Un's most ardent
admirer, and breathing fire and brimstone against "Little Rocket Man".

Beyond that, affiant sayeth not.

> —CGE
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2018, at 8:10 AM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So Carl,
>
> If I understand you correctly.....
>
> Rodney Davis may be shamed/pressured into emulating Tim Johnson and
> somehow bringing about peace and paradise on earth....
>
> But the "war-mongering Democrats" CANNOT be shamed or pressured into
> bringing about peace and paradise on earth.....
>
> Because NEVER is a long time??  Or perhaps there's another perfectly
> logical reason, the kind you're famous for?
>
> Asking for a friend,
>
> John Wason
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:50 AM, David Johnson via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> " Rodney may be shamed/pressured into emulating him. “NEVER” is a long
>> time."
>>
>> That will be a cold day in hell Carl.
>>
>> It will never happen because Davis is bought and paid for.
>>
>> David J.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C G Estabrook [mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 7:45 AM
>> To: David Johnson; Peace
>> Cc: Debra Schrishuhn; Karen Aram; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Voting anti-war in tomorrow's
>> primary (2)
>>
>> David’s quite right about Tim (who’s even recently asked me to lecture to
>> his UI classes - along with Rodney, I admit…)
>>
>> Rodney may be shamed/pressured into emulating him. “NEVER” is a long time.
>>
>> But the war-mongering Democrats are today excoriating Trump for
>> congratulating Putin on his election, and talking peace with Eurasia!
>>
>> Idiots.
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 22, 2018, at 7:23 AM, David Johnson via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Indeed Deb,
>> >
>> > Tim Johnson was a Champaign county Republican who interacted with his
>> constituents and even helped registered Democrats with problems. He also
>> had  libertarian political tendencies in regards to civil liberties and had
>> one of the most favorable voting records in support of Unions . He changed
>> his support of the war in Iraq to opposition while Bush and the Republicans
>> still controlled the Presidency and Congress because he was responding to
>> citizens in his district. Not that he didn't have his faults.
>> > Rodney Davis on the other hand is a corporate republican who is a
>> solely owned subsidiary of the Koch brothers et al and doesn’t care what
>> his constituents think. Davis will NEVER bite the hand of his corporate
>> masters.
>> >
>> > David J.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of
>> > Debra Schrishuhn via Peace
>> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 5:26 AM
>> > To: Karen Aram
>> > Cc: peace
>> > Subject: Re: [Peace] Voting anti-war in tomorrow's primary (2)
>> >
>> > What comes to mind is a paraphrase of one of the best debate lines
>> > ever: I knew Tim Johnson, worked with Tim Johnson, and Rodney Davis,
>> you are not Tim Johnson!
>> >
>> > Deb
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3/20/18, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> >> Sorry, I don’t buy it, give me a reason why Davis might change his
>> >> mind as did Tim Johnson, other than a miracle. I would prefer a
>> >> Democrat we can pressure, with our votes. Davis has already had the
>> >> opportunity to change his mind on many things due to constituency
>> pressure, please name one.
>> >>
>> >> And, lets be clear the Democrat Party maybe pushing Russiagate, and
>> >> war against China, but to assume the Republicans are not, is sheer
>> nonsense.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 20, 2018, at 06:39, C G Estabrook
>> >> <cgestabrook at gmail.com<mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, it’s a recognition that any Democratic candidate in this
>> >> Congressional district (except Gill) will be a war supporter.
>> >>
>> >> Republican Tim Johnson, Davis’ predecessor, was, too - and changed in
>> >> office.
>> >>
>> >> Unlikely as it may be, we can hope for the same from Davis - while
>> >> the Democratic party pushes Russiagate and war provocations against
>> >> Russia and China.
>> >>
>> >> —CGE
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 20, 2018, at 8:30 AM, Karen Aram
>> >> <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >> I agree David Gill is the only viable candidate to be supported.
>> >> However, Rodney Davis? Are you showing your true Republican colors,
>> >> or is this a strategy to “bring it on,” the revolution, which we
>> surely need.
>> >>
>> >> Just as Trump is responsible for waking up the American people to
>> >> “politics do matter,” after sleeping for eight years, I suppose you
>> >> think Rodney’s re-election might have the same affect.
>> >>
>> >> Good strategy, but I doubt it will work, the people will just wait
>> >> for another chance to elect a Democrat. Pressure on some of our
>> >> Democrat Representatives does have an impact, as we are now told
>> >> Tammy Duckworth will support the Lee Sanders Bill, given her support
>> >> for militarism, that is quite an achievement though we must be
>> >> vigilant and keep in mind the Lee Sanders Bill is flawed.
>> >>
>> >>  I too like Niloofar am surprised and disappointed that Bob would
>> support
>> >> Betsy, when we have a candidate, David          Gill who is anti-war
>> as well
>> >> as single payer supporter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 19, 2018, at 20:58, C G Estabrook
>> >> <cgestabrook at gmail.com<mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> David Gill seems to be the only anti-war candidate for Congress in
>> IL-13.
>> >> He’s the only Democrat who said in answer to direct questions that US
>> >> troops (and weapons) should be withdrawn from the Mideast and N.
>> Africa.
>> >>
>> >> The other Democrats - Londrigan, Jones, and Ebel - all support US
>> >> war-making. Londrigan seems uninformed, as Bob suggests, but Ebel is
>> >> even worse: he seems to be one of the "extraordinary number of former
>> >> intelligence and military operatives from the CIA, Pentagon, National
>> >> Security Council and State Department [who] are seeking nomination as
>> >> Democratic candidates for Congress in the 2018 midterm elections. The
>> >> potential influx of military-intelligence personnel into the
>> >> legislature has no precedent in US political history”
>> >> [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/07/dems-m07.html].
>> >>
>> >> Given what the national Democratic party has done to drive Trump back
>> >> into the belligerence and war-provocations of the Obama
>> >> administration
>> >> - ‘Russiagate', notably - I can’t see voting for any Democrats for
>> Congress.
>> >> If Gill is not nominated, I’ll vote for incumbent Rodney Davis - a
>> >> war-supporter, yes, but one who might follow the example of his
>> >> predecessor, former Rep. Tim Johnson (a Republican), and turn against
>> >> the administration’s wars. —CGE
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 19, 2018, at 9:34 PM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace
>> >> <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Robert,
>> >>
>> >> I'm surprised by your endorsement. She's totally an establishment
>> candidate.
>> >> She has a big smile and no real agenda, except the generic "caring
>> >> for families". Like her mentor, Durbin, she doesn't even support a
>> >> national health care system (improved medicare for all). I hope to
>> >> hear stronger arguments in her favor. Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> Niloofar
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace
>> >> <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>> >> https://www.facebook.com/robert.naiman/posts/10157099169132656
>> >>
>> >> I endorse Betsy Dirksen Londrigan for Congress in IL-13.
>> >> I like all four serious candidates. I met with all of them. I went to
>> >> every forum I could. They're all thoughtful, knowledgeable, and
>> >> progressive, their intentions are pure, and they're in it to win it.
>> >> I will vigorously support whoever wins the primary, in order to defeat
>> Rodney Davis in November.
>> >> But in the primary, I have to choose one. I choose Betsy Dirksen
>> Londrigan.
>> >> First: I engaged the four candidates about our campaign to end
>> >> unauthorized U.S. participation in the catastrophic Saudi war in
>> >> Yemen. Of the four candidates, Betsy Dirksen Londrigan listened to me
>> >> the best. It wasn't close, actually. I explained how this war is
>> >> different from the other wars, and she got it. The first time I
>> >> engaged her, she didn't really understand what I was talking about;
>> >> but none of them did. Betsy Dirksen Londrigan
>> >> said: send me something to read. So I did. The next time I saw her,
>> >> Betsy Dirksen Londrigan knew exactly what I was talking about.
>> >> Because she read the thing I send her and she understood it.
>> >> I don't need a know-it-all representing me in Congress. Know-it-alls
>> >> are a dime a dozen. I need someone who listens to what I have to say
>> >> and tries to understand it. By that criterion, it's Betsy Dirksen
>> Londrigan in a walk.
>> >> Second: I like the fact that Betsy Dirksen Londrigan is endorsed by
>> >> Dick Durbin. It's not that I think Dick Durbin is the alpha and omega.
>> >> I've had frustrations with Dick Durbin. But as a practical matter, on
>> >> my issues, if we don't have Dick Durbin, we're not even on the field.
>> >> But if we do have Dick Durbin, then we can get all the Dick Durbin
>> >> people onside. Today was a perfect example. I was very frustrated
>> >> that on the eve of the Senate vote on the Sanders-Lee-Murphy
>> resolution, I didn't know where Tammy Duckworth was.
>> >> So I engaged Durbin's people and said: where's Tammy Duckworth?
>> >> Within an hour Tammy Duckworth's staffer, who had been dodging me and
>> >> other peace activists, got back with me to confirm that Tammy
>> >> Duckworth would vote yes on the Sanders-Lee-Murphy bill. So the fact
>> >> that Betsy Dirksen Londrigan is a Dick Durbin person is a big plus
>> >> for me, because it gives me great confidence that I can rely on Betsy
>> Dirksen Londrigan when I need her.
>> >> Third: all else equal, I like the fact that she is endorsed by Emily's
>> List.
>> >> Not that I'm totally in love with the politics of Emily's List in
>> general.
>> >> But they are also in it to win it, and I'm confident that if Betsy
>> >> Dirksen Londrigan wins the primary, Emily's List will be all-in to
>> >> help her win the general, and she's going to need a lot of money and
>> >> help to beat Rodney Davis in November.
>> >> Fourth: I strongly support increasing the diversity of our Illinois
>> >> Congressional delegation. Obviously that doesn't mean I have to
>> >> support someone whose politics are diametrically opposed to my own.
>> >> But if it's a jump ball, if it's close enough, "the tie goes to the
>> >> runner." And, in fact, Betsy Dirksen Londrigan is my best candidate
>> >> anyway. She points out that only three members of our current
>> >> delegation are women, and says that's unacceptable and we should
>> >> change that. I agree. She's right about that. So while I certainly
>> >> wouldn't make the decision on this criterion alone, and I wouldn't
>> >> want anyone else to, I think it's perfectly wonderful to have this
>> >> criterion in the mix. Given everything else that's true, I count this
>> as a strong plus.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
>
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