From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 03:53:45 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 22:53:45 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News from Neptune, August 31, 2018 Message-ID: <5012DDE8-3C76-4FE2-AE38-365D5BE38FA2@gmail.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNAwC0wSQ_4 News From Neptune - Episode #393. Friday, August 31, 2018 {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 35th week of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - the time it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. For more than a generation (since 1990), this program has been a weekly hour of spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are available at . ) ~ Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for two generations and more. ~ Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” Tonight David Green & I will try to say some true things - with thanks to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. KNOW’S NOTES are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page. We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a century ago - “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” This is a “Celebrate U.S. Ethics” edition. (The little university down the street is giving an ethics award to a child-killer next week - another indication [were it necessary] of the perversity of both the presidency and the academy). David and I will begin with lists of topics from the week’s news... ======================================== {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 35th week of 2018 on August 31 - the last day of the anniversary month of two great crimes of the 20th century - the U.S. atomic attacks on civilians in two Japanese cities - after the war was won. The point was to kill enough people to deter Russia and proclaim U.S. hegemony over the Asia-Pacific. Not surprisingly, that remains a cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy today, while the U.S. economic empire fights relative decline. News from Neptune is presented by C. G. Estabrook & David Green; - produced & directed by Jason Liggett, Ethan Young, & Andrew Scolari. This has been a “Celebrate U.S. Ethics” edition. (The little university down the street is giving an ethics award to a child-killer next week - another indication [were it necessary] of the perversity of both the presidency and the academy). Our thanks to research director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man on News from Neptune. KNOW’S NOTES are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page. There’s an antiwar demonstration tomorrow in downtown Champaign, from 2 to 4pm, at Main & Neil, sponsored by the Anti-war Anti-racism Effort of C-U (AWARE). Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News from Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (from *The Tempest*), "...what's past is prologue, what to come In yours and my discharge." In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. ### From rwhelbig at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 09:22:17 2018 From: rwhelbig at gmail.com (Roger Helbig) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 02:22:17 -0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are " It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet! Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. Roger On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious > and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, > Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in > the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural > Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political > Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's > strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was > mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm > trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of > citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called > conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller > and Muslim hate speech. The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a > double standard in these actions. They demonstrably attack conservative > content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called > shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to > stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy > theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content > because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal > investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to > try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true > or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar > taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First > Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their > content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying > violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using > dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and > immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have > been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and > accumulating too many strikes. *While much of the discussion around > Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we > are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and > suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s > removals were related to this."* > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig < > rwhelbig at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he > supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything > in order to foster various conspiracies! It is too bad that Fetzer once > was a professor of some renown. There are number of great answers posted > to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - > Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, > not the Government! Neither is Google/YouTube. > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of > GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch > too. There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > > Stephen Francis > > > *The First Amendment and Censorship* > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a > vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the > major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All > sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts > of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, > neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of > their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who > see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make > this an issue are ongoing. > > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's > audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree > the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare > if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see > many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the > 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative > content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the > platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest > from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to > invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on > Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've > helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the > true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where > content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are > a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist > discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him > should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the > First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him > out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general > skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits > including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, > Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf > below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality > that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear > demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the > world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and > Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The > Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional > fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance > has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to > shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute > to this unveiling. > > > *Cultural Marxism and the deep state* > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but > inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the > core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is > branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying > scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males > among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups > like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of > being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this > case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through > infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power > and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing > is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this > full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of > desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen > member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being > Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, > and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's > 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should > be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent > clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' > aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the > Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a > search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, > nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a > soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: > 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The > pertinent paragraph is: > > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a > vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED > when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama > should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the > Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is > more in the game for retribution than equality". > > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important > proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major > university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism > hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist > Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are > either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 > Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to > immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel > if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar > Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a > cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural > destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase > for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism > rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early > 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for > their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at > Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It > clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the > political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM. Colin Kaepernick's > taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics > from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and > subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this > tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for > President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution > has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to > Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to > existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural > revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that > the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close > study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate > masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist > Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish > nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through > AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and > a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown > mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM > have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a > wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution > that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that > was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern > politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never > connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. > There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist > Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its > Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be > conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches > them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / > Russian revolution. > > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, > but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled > opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of > articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. > For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of > cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, > without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its > application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his > usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible > academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through > subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the > norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following > paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that > any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be > tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, > patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. > "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of > the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that > Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political > correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and > other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with > his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is > generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the > contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social > equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. > Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep > state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative > oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and > invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This > happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake > News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your > target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion > created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis). > Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank > steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully > branding the MSM as Fake News. It must be working because they've > validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major > news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish > Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership > controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of > Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about > it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his > since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is > inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish > (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is > led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' > probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that > controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at > the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely > defines his opposition to that cabal. > > *The Jewish Question* > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is > permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly > Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully > entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even > resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue > beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have > resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I > believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at > nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on > for centuries. > > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins > historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave > trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown > mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of > US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides > of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of > Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, > JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve > Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, > JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great > Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and > industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews > instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews > controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish > mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War > and their nuclear weapons program, Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs > (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets > for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, > Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews > created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship > with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, > they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled > banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To > suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly > concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously > cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this > perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the > first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the > entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman > is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw > Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed > themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian > America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian > Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western > culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier > manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the > Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's > Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the > tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 > 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling > industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & > Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the > last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. > Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. > Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most > egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of > peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will > continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, > where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, > Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and > frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of > Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit > the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of > horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't > attain their goals. > > Sources: > > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews > Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > *Stephen Francis *is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, > he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He > was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders > in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a > number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New > in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL > database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to > the domain name *ConspiracyCoin.io*. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 10:17:38 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 05:17:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <274CF542-FB29-4203-A0D0-DAA1C6760438@gmail.com> It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are " It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet! Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech. The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions. They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies! It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown. There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government! Neither is Google/YouTube. > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too. There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM. Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis). Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News. It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. > > The Jewish Question > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program, Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. > > Sources: > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 13:19:46 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:19:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: <274CF542-FB29-4203-A0D0-DAA1C6760438@gmail.com> References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> <274CF542-FB29-4203-A0D0-DAA1C6760438@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1977474556.1880360.1535807986072@mail.yahoo.com> One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | | | | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | | | | | | | | | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | | | | | | | | | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote: It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. > > The Jewish Question > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. > > Sources: > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 13:48:52 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: <1977474556.1880360.1535807986072@mail.yahoo.com> References: <327325038.2064914.1534938392808.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <327325038.2064914.1534938392808@mail.yahoo.com> <799747195.2090036.1534942146783@mail.yahoo.com> <274CF542-FB29-4203-A0D0-DAA1C6760438@gmail.com> <1977474556.1880360.1535807986072@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271@mail.yahoo.com> My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | | | | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | | | | | | | | | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | | | | | | | | | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote: It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. > > The Jewish Question > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. > > Sources: > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 15:13:58 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 15:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1393560025.1917634.1535814838280@mail.yahoo.com> No takers...on a debate...I think it is much more because of fear than indifference...My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant.There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally.Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen       Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook     Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones     article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC   On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. > > The Jewish Question > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. > > Sources: > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss     -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 ********************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sun Sep 2 02:25:42 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <1393560025.1917634.1535814838280@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1393560025.1917634.1535814838280@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x@android.mail.163.com> whatsa tha point debating those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 2 11:15:19 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2118585807.84826.1535886919703@mail.yahoo.com> We do actually agree on many subjects pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light.  So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | | | | | | | | | | | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID:     <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 ********************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 2 12:18:09 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:18:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1565732060.95106.1535890689121@mail.yahoo.com> additional stuff...There's an interesting and important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are anti-occupation.This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more fundamental concepts are in play.Those fundamentals probably have something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out occasionally. There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter of Palestinians.There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching their annihilation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة | | | | | | | | | | | Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... | | | On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light.  So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too powerful to ignore. | | |   On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote:  Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID:     <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 *********************************************   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 ********************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sun Sep 2 14:41:54 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <1565732060.95106.1535890689121@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1565732060.95106.1535890689121@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g@android.mail.163.com> rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching their annihilation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light.  So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote:  Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 2 14:49:54 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:49:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1257973100.123079.1535899794414@mail.yahoo.com> your comments are typical....and do nothing to show that the information that I present is incorrect. On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 8:42:27 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 (ewj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 From: ewj To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 Message-ID:     <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g at android.mail.163.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching their annihilation. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light.  So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote:  Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: Roger Helbig , C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers?  On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | |  |  | | | | |  | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 ********************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Sep 3 04:47:12 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 11:47:12 +0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <1257973100.123079.1535899794414@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1257973100.123079.1535899794414@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I did not say that you were incorrect. I said you could be more effective if you use a different approach. If the SPLC and their ilk can paint you as an anti-semite, they can neutralize you. Don't give them that chance. Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > your comments are typical....and do nothing to show that the > information that I present is incorrect. > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 8:42:27 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 (ewj) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 > From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss >     > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 > Message-ID: >     <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged > character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and > challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they > call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to > turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and > important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the > American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are > anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where > political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more > fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have > something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of > humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out > occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter > of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. > They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did > nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching > their annihilation. > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html > Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed > Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, > 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] > Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: > <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com > > Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects > pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew > parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment > (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and > believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the > future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the > establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, > racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. > The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. > Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, > would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose > power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / > Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign > rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's > supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and > anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state > establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in > their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of > followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full > IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder > Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a > plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very > successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of > weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise > with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as > NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. > Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural > territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and > twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and > philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. > There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the > MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at > legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because > of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing > enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a > full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light. > So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or > criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change > such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it > was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared > because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people > really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 > countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official > interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. > Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will > anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | > | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next > British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The > British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too > powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM > CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote:  Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: > <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating > those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. > politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid > and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power > do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 > 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a > debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... > My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. > There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no > audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On > Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer > prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > Roger Helbig >, C G > Estabrook > Cc: > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen > Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate > anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would > vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance > to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's > possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those > videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any > takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen > Francis > > wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per > month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains > an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of > corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then > who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli > criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And > this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see > below | | | |  |  | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, > Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no > provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to > shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have > scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened > according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 > Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | > | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did > a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same > conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 > Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific > unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts > rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM > CST, C G Estabrook > wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if > Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and > I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to > wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out > all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat > familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and > this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a > sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets > often get there first): > . > —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss > > wrote: > > Neither > Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal > investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms > to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they > are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  > Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis > > wrote: > The > article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious > and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins > (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and > taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has > fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism > (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, > Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with > Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul > Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to > make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of > citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones > is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called > conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct > in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate > speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double > standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative > content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called > shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt > to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't > banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK > assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not > 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on > facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out > interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or > not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar > taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to > the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can > police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these > limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon > review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, > which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing > language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and > immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages > have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards > and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around > Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that > we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact > checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations > that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, > Roger Helbig > wrote: > > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am > sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty > much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too > bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number > of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and > Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First > Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is > Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought > about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - > https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ > Fetzer should watch too.  There > really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen > Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > POSTED BY JIM > FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for > Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and > Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free > speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into > the fine details of why the major social media and content sites > suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain > evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this > whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump > forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and > (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their > varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives > who s > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 > ********************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Mon Sep 3 05:04:57 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:04:57 +0700 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <1257973100.123079.1535899794414@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1257973100.123079.1535899794414@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Three buildings in NYC collapsed into their own footprints. Two supposedly from an airplane smashing into them and one for no apparent reason at all (wtc7) A plane in pennsylvania and one near the pentagon seemed to vanish. The US declared war on a country obviously not involved, and the federal government took advantage of the situation to seize much power. What's wrong with this picture? Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > your comments are typical....and do nothing to show that the > information that I present is incorrect. > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 8:42:27 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 (ewj) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 > From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss >     > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 > Message-ID: >     <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged > character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and > challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they > call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to > turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and > important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the > American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are > anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where > political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more > fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have > something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of > humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out > occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter > of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. > They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did > nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching > their annihilation. > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html > Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed > Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, > 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] > Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: > <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com > > Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects > pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew > parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment > (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and > believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the > future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the > establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, > racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. > The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. > Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, > would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose > power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / > Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign > rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's > supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and > anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state > establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in > their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of > followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full > IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder > Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a > plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very > successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of > weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise > with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as > NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. > Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural > territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and > twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and > philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. > There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the > MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at > legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because > of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing > enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a > full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light. > So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or > criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change > such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it > was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared > because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people > really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 > countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official > interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. > Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will > anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | > | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next > British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The > British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too > powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM > CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote:  Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: > <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating > those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. > politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid > and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power > do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 > 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a > debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... > My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. > There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no > audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On > Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer > prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > Roger Helbig >, C G > Estabrook > Cc: > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen > Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate > anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would > vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance > to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's > possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those > videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any > takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen > Francis > > wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per > month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains > an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of > corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then > who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli > criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And > this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see > below | | | |  |  | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, > Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no > provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to > shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have > scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened > according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 > Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | > | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did > a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same > conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 > Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific > unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts > rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM > CST, C G Estabrook > wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if > Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and > I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to > wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out > all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat > familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and > this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a > sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets > often get there first): > . > —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss > > wrote: > > Neither > Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal > investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms > to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they > are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  > Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis > > wrote: > The > article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious > and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins > (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and > taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has > fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism > (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, > Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with > Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul > Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to > make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of > citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones > is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called > conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct > in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate > speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double > standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative > content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called > shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt > to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't > banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK > assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not > 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on > facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out > interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or > not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar > taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to > the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can > police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these > limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon > review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, > which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing > language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and > immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages > have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards > and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around > Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that > we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact > checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations > that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, > Roger Helbig > wrote: > > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am > sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty > much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too > bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number > of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and > Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First > Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is > Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought > about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - > https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ > Fetzer should watch too.  There > really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen > Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > POSTED BY JIM > FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for > Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and > Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free > speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into > the fine details of why the major social media and content sites > suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain > evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this > whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump > forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and > (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their > varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives > who s > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 > ********************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 12:00:02 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1873470548.245505.1535976003011@mail.yahoo.com> "What's wrong with this picture?... great question.For the umpteenth time: The controlled demolition of the WTC was just an incremental step in transitioning the world from the Cold War to the 'War on Terror'...just another instance of attempts to gain control over world resources (wealth) by the 'elite'.This event is typical of hundreds before it that go back to the 18th Century...beginning with British (European) colonialism.Creating 'boogeymen' is an important marker...in this case Arabs (hijackers) and transitioning into contrived Islamophobia.To analyze this latest move, just use normal forensic techniques of 'means, motive, and opportunity (MMO)' and qui bono.There are thousands of inconsistencies in the official version of 9/11, as is also the case for JFK and the Holocaust.But to stick to 9/11, Building 7's destruction is glaring and the reason Architects & Engineers and Professor Hulsey (UofAlaska) focused on it.  These are active investigations 16 years after the fact. They are nearly impossible to refute scientifically.... only politically for the obvious reasons.These organizations have put incontrovertible doubt about the 'official story' that blames Arabs. If that story is wrong then the question becomes what is the correct version of events.There probably were Arab hijackers, but it can be proven that they were cased by Israeli operatives before 9/11 which bolsters the idea that the real perpetrators of 9/11 piggybacked their operation on a ragtag bunch of rebels who had no ability to breach the security of the WTC with bombs of any sort.MMO immediately conjures up the possibility of a false flag events by Israel, of which there are many examples (Iraq WMD, USS Liberty, Lavon, King David Hotel). If it was a false flag then the US, Israel, Britain, and Saudi Arabia are the best fit. Qui bono just strengthens the argument. China / Russia... don't measure up...nor does any other countries.The creation of the State of Israel is undoubtedly one of the most controversial events of the 20th Century and it continues to boil. Looking at Israel as complicit in 9/11 is a simple exercise, but is complicated by massive amounts of lies and propaganda.To cast more doubt on the official and bolster the view that Israel (Netanyahu Zionists) was a kingpin in this operation, go no further than New York itself.Jews controlled virtually all aspects of the NYC 9/11 component. They owned the lease on the WTC (Silverstein), controlled the Port Authority (Eisenberg), led the emergency response (Giuliani), controlled the nuclear event response, controlled the legal response including insurance settlements (Mukasey), victim compensation (Feinberg), victim lawsuits (Hellerstein), all of the four companies that participated in the cleanup were Jewish-owned), rebuilding of the Pentagon (Amec), they controlled the Memorial design (NYC and Pentagon, they controlled the Pentagon (Dov Zakheim, comptroller, Cheney and Rumsfeld were Neocon philo-semites... military secrets were passed to Israel by Pentagon Jewish operatives Rosen and Weissman.... Israeli Art Students cased the hijackers, Neoconservatives (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith all Jews) controlled the War Department of the Pentagon, ... the PNAC was dominated by Neoconservatives,....neoconservatism was created by Jews (Kristol, Kagan...etc)... all major think tanks concerning the invasion of Iraq were led by neocon Jews, Carl Bernstein (Jew) characterized the invasion of Iraq as a Jewish/Zionist op....The 700+ page Patriot Act was essentially completed far before 9/11 ...ready and waiting for that day's events.I have just scratched the surface...this is just the political angleif you look at the physical evidence, it becomes even more obvious....There is all sorts of evidence that the WTC was being prepared for demolition before 9/11... including unprecedented power downs, removal of security operations,...construction activities on empty floors and Israeli Art Students pre-demolition activities...and on the day of 9/11 a plethora of reports of explosions before the 'planes' hit...there were actually no planes...just video fakery.I mentioned in earlier posts a MS Excel database with 2000 pieces of information bolstering the above.In a court of law or scientific inquiry, it only takes one piece of evidence to discredit a theory. In the case of 9/11 there are thousands...only political forces can overcome this evidence. The cabal of US / Israel / Britain / Saudi Arabia did 9/11 to profit from war and control the ME.... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 11:05:37 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 (E. Wayne Johnson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:04:57 +0700 From: "E. Wayne Johnson" To: Stephen Francis ,     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Three buildings in NYC collapsed into their own footprints. Two supposedly from an airplane smashing into them and one for no apparent reason at all (wtc7) A plane in pennsylvania and one near the pentagon seemed to vanish. The US declared war on a country obviously not involved, and the federal government took advantage of the situation to seize much power. What's wrong with this picture? Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > your comments are typical....and do nothing to show that the > information that I present is incorrect. > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 8:42:27 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 (ewj) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 > From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss >     > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 > Message-ID: >     <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged > character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and > challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they > call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to > turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and > important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the > American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are > anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where > political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more > fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have > something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of > humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out > occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter > of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. > They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did > nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching > their annihilation. > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html > Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed > Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, > 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] > Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: > <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com > > Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects > pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew > parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment > (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and > believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the > future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the > establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, > racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. > The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. > Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, > would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose > power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / > Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign > rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's > supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and > anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state > establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in > their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of > followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full > IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder > Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a > plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very > successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of > weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise > with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as > NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. > Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural > territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and > twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and > philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. > There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the > MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at > legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because > of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing > enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a > full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light. > So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or > criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change > such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it > was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared > because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people > really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 > countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official > interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. > Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will > anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | > | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next > British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The > British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too > powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM > CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote:  Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: > <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating > those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. > politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid > and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power > do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 > 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a > debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... > My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. > There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no > audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On > Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer > prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > Roger Helbig >, C G > Estabrook > Cc: > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen > Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate > anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would > vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance > to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's > possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those > videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any > takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen > Francis > > wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per > month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains > an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of > corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then > who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli > criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And > this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see > below | | | |  |  | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, > Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no > provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to > shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have > scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened > according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 > Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | > | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did > a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same > conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 > Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific > unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts > rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM > CST, C G Estabrook > wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if > Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and > I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to > wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out > all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat > familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and > this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a > sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets > often get there first): > . > —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss > > wrote: > > Neither > Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal > investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms > to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they > are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  > Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis > > wrote: > The > article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious > and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins > (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and > taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has > fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism > (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, > Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with > Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul > Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to > make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of > citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones > is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called > conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct > in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate > speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double > standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative > content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called > shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt > to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't > banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK > assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not > 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on > facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out > interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or > not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar > taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to > the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can > police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these > limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon > review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, > which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing > language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and > immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages > have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards > and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around > Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that > we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact > checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations > that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, > Roger Helbig > wrote: > > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am > sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty > much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too > bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number > of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and > Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First > Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is > Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought > about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - > https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ > Fetzer should watch too.  There > really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen > Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > POSTED BY JIM > FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for > Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and > Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free > speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into > the fine details of why the major social media and content sites > suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain > evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this > whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump > forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and > (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their > varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives > who s > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 > ********************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 12 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 12:30:13 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:30:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <893510371.262478.1535977813189@mail.yahoo.com> more stuff...I don't fear nor consider whether or not I'm branded an anti-Semite. I'm aware that it is just a Jewish contrived shield to protect them from criticism. It works well for most, but not all.I'm sure CGE will counter everything I've said with the words of the well-known 9/11 Truth gatekeeper Noam Chomsky, that is if he chooses to enter the conversation. On Monday, September 3, 2018, 6:00:43 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote: Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 12 (Stephen Francis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:00:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen Francis To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 12 Message-ID: <1873470548.245505.1535976003011 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" "What's wrong with this picture?... great question.For the umpteenth time: The controlled demolition of the WTC was just an incremental step in transitioning the world from the Cold War to the 'War on Terror'...just another instance of attempts to gain control over world resources (wealth) by the 'elite'.This event is typical of hundreds before it that go back to the 18th Century...beginning with British (European) colonialism.Creating 'boogeymen' is an important marker...in this case Arabs (hijackers) and transitioning into contrived Islamophobia.To analyze this latest move, just use normal forensic techniques of 'means, motive, and opportunity (MMO)' and qui bono.There are thousands of inconsistencies in the official version of 9/11, as is also the case for JFK and the Holocaust.But to stick to 9/11, Building 7's destruction is glaring and the reason Architects & Engineers and Professor Hulsey (UofAlaska) focused on it.  These are active investigations 16 years after the fact. They are nearly impossible to refute scientifically.... only politically for the obvious reasons.These organizations have put incontrovertible doubt about the 'official story' that blames Arabs. If that story is wrong then the question becomes what is the correct version of events.There probably were Arab hijackers, but it can be proven that they were cased by Israeli operatives before 9/11 which bolsters the idea that the real perpetrators of 9/11 piggybacked their operation on a ragtag bunch of rebels who had no ability to breach the security of the WTC with bombs of any sort.MMO immediately conjures up the possibility of a false flag events by Israel, of which there are many examples (Iraq WMD, USS Liberty, Lavon, King David Hotel). If it was a false flag then the US, Israel, Britain, and Saudi Arabia are the best fit. Qui bono just strengthens the argument. China / Russia... don't measure up...nor does any other countries.The creation of the State of Israel is undoubtedly one of the most controversial events of the 20th Century and it continues to boil. Looking at Israel as complicit in 9/11 is a simple exercise, but is complicated by massive amounts of lies and propaganda.To cast more doubt on the official and bolster the view that Israel (Netanyahu Zionists) was a kingpin in this operation, go no further than New York itself.Jews controlled virtually all aspects of the NYC 9/11 component. They owned the lease on the WTC (Silverstein), controlled the Port Authority (Eisenberg), led the emergency response (Giuliani), controlled the nuclear event response, controlled the legal response including insurance settlements (Mukasey), victim compensation (Feinberg), victim lawsuits (Hellerstein), all of the four companies that participated in the cleanup were Jewish-owned), rebuilding of the Pentagon (Amec), they controlled the Memorial design (NYC and Pentagon, they controlled the Pentagon (Dov Zakheim, comptroller, Cheney and Rumsfeld were Neocon philo-semites... military secrets were passed to Israel by Pentagon Jewish operatives Rosen and Weissman.... Israeli Art Students cased the hijackers, Neoconservatives (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith all Jews) controlled the War Department of the Pentagon, ... the PNAC was dominated by Neoconservatives,....neoconservatism was created by Jews (Kristol, Kagan...etc)... all major think tanks concerning the invasion of Iraq were led by neocon Jews, Carl Bernstein (Jew) characterized the invasion of Iraq as a Jewish/Zionist op....The 700+ page Patriot Act was essentially completed far before 9/11 ...ready and waiting for that day's events.I have just scratched the surface...this is just the political angleif you look at the physical evidence, it becomes even more obvious....There is all sorts of evidence that the WTC was being prepared for demolition before 9/11... including unprecedented power downs, removal of security operations,...construction activities on empty floors and Israeli Art Students pre-demolition activities...and on the day of 9/11 a plethora of reports of explosions before the 'planes' hit...there were actually no planes...just video fakery.I mentioned in earlier posts a MS Excel database with 2000 pieces of information bolstering the above.In a court of law or scientific inquiry, it only takes one piece of evidence to discredit a theory. In the case of 9/11 there are thousands...only political forces can overcome this evidence. The cabal of US / Israel / Britain / Saudi Arabia did 9/11 to profit from war and control the ME....   On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 11:05:37 PM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net wrote:  Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net You can reach the person managing the list at     peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics:   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 (E. Wayne Johnson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:04:57 +0700 From: "E. Wayne Johnson" To: Stephen Francis ,     peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Three buildings in NYC collapsed into their own footprints. Two supposedly from an airplane smashing into them and one for no apparent reason at all (wtc7) A plane in pennsylvania and one near the pentagon seemed to vanish. The US declared war on a country obviously not involved, and the federal government took advantage of the situation to seize much power. What's wrong with this picture? Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > your comments are typical....and do nothing to show that the > information that I present is incorrect. > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, 8:42:27 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > wrote: > > > Send Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Peace-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >   1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 (ewj) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:41:54 +0800 > From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss >     > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7 > Message-ID: >     <1535899312836.nm0xprq5jsiru25ejwk4dy4g at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > rather than attacking a specific group because of their alleged > character or lack thereof it would be more effective interesting and > challenging to attack the attributes rather than the group. once they > call you an antisemite or a racist or a bigot it becomes a reason to > turn you off and ignore you. On 2018-09-02 20:18 , Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss Wrote: additional stuff... There's an interesting and > important rift growing between Israel and American Jews, where the > American counterpart, to some degree, actually embraces BDS and are > anti-occupation. This can only mean, at the deepest levels, where > political labels are inadequate and misleading and that more > fundamental concepts are in play. Those fundamentals probably have > something to do with the inherent decency, fairness, and humaneness of > humans. Evolution has instilled this in us and actually pops out > occasionally.  There are actually Jews who are against the slaughter > of Palestinians. There really were hundreds of Palestinian villages. > They were all bull-dozed into non-existence. The Palestinians did > nothing did deserve their plight. It's utterly sickening watching > their annihilation. > http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/ifnotnow-birthright-ramah-bds-israel.html > Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة Palestine > Remembered (فلسطين في الذاكرة): The Home Of All Ethnically Cleansed > Palestinians. Palestine Picture be... On Sunday, September 2, 2018, > 5:16:03 AM CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 6 (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 11:15:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] > Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 6 Message-ID: > <2118585807.84826.1535886919703 at mail.yahoo.com > > Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="utf-8" We do actually agree on many subjects > pertaining to antiwar and racism.A recent post, maybe by CGE, drew > parallels between Corbyn's and Trump's battles with the establishment > (in US, the Dems, Libs, MSM, deep state). I agree with this and > believe it's an immensely important bellwether in determining the > future direction of world politics. In Britain and the US, the > establishment is having a difficult time pinning the antiSemitic, > racist brands on Corbyn and Trump and their supporters, respectively. > The midterm elections will best define the outcome of these efforts. > Corbyn won't sign off on the full IHRA definition because he, in part, > would betray a large segment of his followers and subsequently lose > power, just as in America, Trump's success in fighting off the Dem / > Clinton warmongers is his Twitter habit and highly successful campaign > rallies that have seen eight of the last nine candidates that he's > supported win their seats. CNN, a bastion of Netanyahu Zionism and > anti-Trumpism, has ever increasingly dismal ratings. The deep state > establishment has had to expose its flanks and true motivations in > their attempt to hold off Corbyn and Trump....and their millions of > followers. A significant portion of Corbyn's supporters sees the full > IHRA for what it is....that being an open license to murder > Palestinians with impunity and censor any criticism of Israel. And,  a > plethora of laws against Holocaust revisionism in Europe has been very > successful in censoring debate, but the tactic is showing signs of > weakening.  Merkel and many other EU leaders have had to compromise > with nationalistic movements, which they try to characterize as > NeoNazis, but all that does is embolden those that see the light. > Ultimately, nationalism is probably more a form of natural > territoriality than anything else and thus impossible to hijack and > twist its meaning. All wars are banker's wars and Jews and > philo-semites have dominating banking since the invention of money. > There is a weight of proof of this, it's just never mentioned in the > MSM for obvious reasons. Jews have been highly successful at > legislating censor of any opposition to their behaviors, but, because > of the internet and the demise of the MSM, it is becoming a failing > enterprise. They try to brand it racism, but that is illogical once a > full recognition of Jewish history is brought to light. > So-called 'Antisemitism' is really just abhorrence of unethical or > criminal activity and is not rooted in things people cannot change > such as skin color, sexual preference.  In the early 20th century it > was common to refer to Jews as a race, but that has disappeared > because of scientific recognition that this was an error. Once people > really dig into the details why they were expelled from over 100 > countries since Biblical Times and start to question the official > interpretations of Jewish history, the walls start crumbling down. > Corbyn and Trump are at the forefront of a new era of politics. Will > anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next British PM? - The Boston Globe | > | | |  |  | | | | |  | Will anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn be the next > British PM? - The Boston Globe Michael A. Cohen - Columnist The > British Labour party leader’s anti-Semitism has become a stench too > powerful to ignore. | | | On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 8:26:24 PM > CST, peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote:  Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Peace-discuss Digest, > Vol 176, Issue 4 (ewj) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 09:25:42 +0700 From: ewj > > To: Stephen Francis via > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 4 Message-ID: > <1535855141323.vpxo4nudi53r43rb5ngeve3x at android.mail.163.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" whatsa tha point debating > those things that are generally agreed upon. entropy exists. > politicians lie. americans kinda expect that. the electorate is stupid > and sheep-like democrats hate the first ten amendments. those in power > do incredible stunts to keep it. debate is fun, though. On 2018-09-01 > 23:13 , Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss Wrote: No takers...on a > debate... I think it is much more because of fear than indifference... > My international presence refutes the idea that I'm insignificant. > There's no fear of you looking badly in the encounter, for you have no > audience...other than internally. Be brave, You can do it. On > Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:49:46 AM CST, > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > > > wrote: Send > Peace-discuss mailing list submissions to > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > or, via > email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net > You can reach the > person managing the list at peace-discuss-owner at lists.chambana.net > When replying, please > edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of > Peace-discuss digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prof James Fetzer > prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis (Stephen Francis) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:48:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Stephen > Francis > To: > Roger Helbig >, C G > Estabrook > Cc: > Peace-discuss > Subject: Re: > [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen > Francis Message-ID: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271 at mail.yahoo.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My challenge to debate > anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would > vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance > to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's > possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those > videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any > takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen > Francis > > wrote:  One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per > month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains > an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of > corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then > who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli > criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And > this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see > below | | | |  |  | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, > Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no > provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to > shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have > scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened > according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 > Truth | | | |  |  | | | | |  | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | > | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did > a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same > conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | |  |  | | | | |  | WTC 7 > Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific > unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts > rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM > CST, C G Estabrook > wrote:  It would be flabbergasting if > Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and > I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to > wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out > all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat > familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and > this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a > sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets > often get there first): > . > —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss > > wrote: > > Neither > Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal > investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms > to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they > are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  > Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis > > wrote: > The > article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious > and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins > (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and > taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has > fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism > (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, > Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with > Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul > Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to > make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of > citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones > is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called > conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct > in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate > speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double > standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative > content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called > shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt > to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't > banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK > assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not > 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on > facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out > interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or > not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar > taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to > the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can > police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these > limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon > review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, > which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing > language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and > immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages > have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards > and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around > Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that > we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact > checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations > that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, > Roger Helbig > wrote: > > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am > sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty > much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too > bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number > of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and > Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First > Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is > Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought > about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - > https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ > Fetzer should watch too.  There > really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen > Francis via Peace-discuss > wrote: > POSTED BY JIM > FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for > Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and > Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free > speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into > the fine details of why the major social media and content sites > suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain > evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this > whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump > forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and > (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their > varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and > file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives > who s > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 9 > ********************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 12 **********************************************   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss ------------------------------ End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 176, Issue 13 ********************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenf1113 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 3 13:49:10 2018 From: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com (Stephen Francis) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis In-Reply-To: <1659f9599c7-1eb5-c235@webjas-vaa179.srv.aolmail.net> References: <1790054352.1890967.1535809732271@mail.yahoo.com> <1659f9599c7-1eb5-c235@webjas-vaa179.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <2096780180.280164.1535982550222@mail.yahoo.com> Calling my views 'phony' is ineffective, silly and unproductive, especially on a website that purports to be advocates of  antiwar / anti racism and requires careful thought.There is obviously an attempt by the 'deep state' to revive the Cold War given the recent attempts by a corrupted DoJ and US intelligence community to oust Trump from office (Russiagate, Russophobia). Trump is throwing monkey wrenches into their plans.Comparisons between the old and new versions of the Cold War could shed light on any analysis.Here's my latest work on Russiagate,.... a timeline that elucidates these conflicts....it's a work-in-process.Russiagate / Trump / Clinton Timeline | | | | | | | | | | | Russiagate / Trump / Clinton Timeline | | | On Monday, September 3, 2018, 7:18:41 AM CST, Mildred O'brien wrote: You're just looking for a free ride to pickyback your phony views on somebody's else's dime.  -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss To: Roger Helbig ; C G Estabrook Cc: Peace-discuss Sent: Sat, Sep 1, 2018 8:50 am Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Prof James Fetzer prints Alex Jones article by Stephen Francis My challenge to debate anyone on Peace-Discuss...on CGE's show remains in effect.It would vastly increase the viewership of that show. It would be your chance to make me look bad if you think you could get away with it...it's possible...I'm not very effective on videos...I've noticed that those videos only receive less than a handful of viewers...do I have any takers? On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 7:19:51 AM CST, Stephen Francis wrote: One of the reasons that I have 40-60,000 pages downloaded per month on my website is pages like the one linked below...It contains an MS Excel spreadsheet, that I created, with 2000 rows of corroborated facts about 9/11.If the hijackers didn't do 9/11, then who did...the answer is cabal of US, British and Israeli criminals....9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc And this is backed up by professional and academic organizations. see below | | | | | | | | | | | 9-11 TRUTH SEARCH ENGINE, Zionists/Neocons nuked wtc | | | The accusation that there are no provable facts concerning 9/11 is just propaganda and methods used to shut down the debate.Over 3000 architects and engineers have scientifically proven the WTC's destruction could not have happened according to the 'official' version.Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | | | | | | | | | Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | | | Professor Hulsey (forensics engineer, dept head) of UofAlaska did a two-year study of WTC Building 7 and came up with the same conclusion...WTC 7 Evaluation | | | | | | | | | | | WTC 7 Evaluation WTC 7 EVALUATION | | | These are professional scientific unrefutable factual studies...that make your statements about no facts rubbishIsrael Nuked WTC On Saturday, September 1, 2018, 4:17:42 AM CST, C G Estabrook wrote: It would be flabbergasting if Francis’ farrago of fantasy and fear didn’t contain even one fact, and I think I've found it (no one can be wrong all the time), viz. and to wit: > The Democratic Party ... have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar [“deplorables”], but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. And here’s a specific for this madness (the poets often get there first): . —CGE > On Sep 1, 2018, at 4:22 AM, Roger Helbig via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Neither Holocaust Denial nor 9/11 Truth are "  It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not." - these are about as "forensic" as a Trump Tweet!  Just like Trump, they are not free to make up their own facts. > > Roger > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:49 AM Stephen Francis wrote: > The article is mostly concerned with Cultural Marxism and its insidious and pervasive influence on our culture and academia. It's origins (Jewish, Frankfurt School), reach and influence are all buried and taboo topics in the MSM. > > Much of what Jones talks about has fundamental roots in that Cultural Marxism which IS Multiculturalism (unfettered immigration), Political Correctness (censorship), BLM, Taking a knee...etc. The Democratic Party's strategies are rife with Cultural Marxist techniques. Hillary Clinton was mentored by Saul Alinsky, an avowed Cultural Marxist. That's the point I'm trying to make. They are not interested in the rights and welfare of citizens...it's all about power and taking down Trump. > > Alex Jones is a nut case as I pointed out. His net effect on the so-called conspiracy theory world is probably negative. > Facebook was correct in banning Jones on the basis of threats to Mueller and Muslim hate speech.  The problem is that Facebook, Google, MSM have a double standard in these actions.  They demonstrably attack conservative content while ignoring like 'liberal', Left instances. It's called shadow-banning. Conservatives in Congress are taking action to attempt to stop it....good luck with that. > > They (big social media) haven't banned many so-called 'conspiracy theories' like 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust hoax content because ultimately it is not 'hate speech'. It's just forensic criminal investigation based on facts. It's impossible to set up the mechanisms to try to sort out interpretations of those facts as to whether they are true or not...and in doing so it gives these subjects airtime...a familiar taboo. > > As you say, Facebook is a private company not subject to the First Amendment, but there are practical limits to how they can police their content. 9/11, JFK and the Holocaust run into these limits. > > thus the following Facebook excerpt. > > " .... upon review, we have taken it (Alex Jones) down for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies." All four Pages have been unpublished for repeated violations of Community Standards and accumulating too many strikes. While much of the discussion around Infowars has been related to false news, which is a serious issue that we are working to address by demoting links marked wrong by fact checkers and suggesting additional content, none of the violations that spurred today’s removals were related to this." > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > violations > > > > > On Wednesday, August 22, 2018, 6:01:53 AM CST, Roger Helbig wrote: > > > Since Fetzer is one of his nut case minions like Mr Francis, I am sure he supports Alex Jones's right to lie to millions about pretty much everything in order to foster various conspiracies!  It is too bad that Fetzer once was a professor of some renown.  There are number of great answers posted to Quora that explain much of what Fetzer and Francis refuse to believe. - Facebook is not subject to the First Amendment - it is a private company, not the Government!  Neither is Google/YouTube.  > > Roger Helbig > > By the way Mr Francis, thought about you while watching the latter part of GI Jews on PBS - https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gi-jews/ Fetzer should watch too.  There really was a Holocaust. > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:47 AM Stephen Francis via Peace-discuss wrote: > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > https://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2018/08/stephen-francis-qualified-support-for.html > > TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 2018 > Stephen Francis: Qualified Support for Alex Jones > > Stephen Francis > > > The First Amendment and Censorship > > Alex Jones has returned to the center of the free speech debate with a vengeance. It is vitally important to dig into the fine details of why the major social media and content sites suspended and then banned him. All sides of the arguments contain evidence of hidden motives and agendas. > > At first glance, this whole episode seems to somewhat mirror the efforts of the anti-Trump forces (#Resistance) to connect him to the Alt-Right, neo-Nazis and (staged) anti-Semites as they did in Charlottesville. None of their varied attempts to do this have worked mainly because the rank and file Trump / Jones supporters are mainstream non-radical conservatives who see through the ruse. Trump has cozied up to Jones and attempts to make this an issue are ongoing. > > > > If the Dems / Left / deep state is successful in smothering Jone's audience with some underhanded censorship, it could impact to some degree the midterm elections and help render Trump's remaining tenure a nightmare if Republicans lose their total control of Congress. We will probably see many more similar attempts like this before November. > > Facebook and YouTube (Google) proved their allegiance to the Left in the 2016 election cycle. There is no doubt that they censor conservative content, much the same as it is censored in academia. They created the platform for Jones to amass his audience and now face a torrent of protest from all sides over what they all produced. They have no choice but to invoke some sort of controls which has no good outcome. Jones' threats on Mueller paved the way, but double-standards and bias confound all. They've helped to create the tarnished martyr Alex Jones. > > > > We should support Jones' right to say what he pleases, but be wary of the true motivations behind his message. He is basically a sensationalist where content rules over ethical and legal judgment. His over-the-top antics are a large part of his success. He has tapped into a vast chasm of populist discontent in advancing the cause of anti-globalists, but supporting him should be enclosed in well-defined parameters of constitutionality and the First Amendment. We can support his right to free speech and also tune him out. > > A quick read of the Fontaine lawsuit confirms much of the general skepticism of Jones. He settled in favor of Chobani, and ongoing suits including Marcell Fontaine and Brennan Gilmore, where, at first glance, Jones appears to be completely irresponsible. See link to lawsuit pdf below. Reports of six more lawsuits abound. > > Jones' reported Muslim bashing is completely antithetical to the reality that Islamophobia is a hoax spawned from the false flag 9/11 nuclear demolition of the WTC, which itself was the seminal event transitioning the world from the Cold War to the War on Terror. US, British, Saudi and Israeli conspirators are the progenitors of this horror, not Muslims. > > The terrorism meme is far more about enabling state surveillance. The Patriot Act was signed into law with weeks of 9/11 because the emotional fear generated out of that was required to get it passed. Mass surveillance has been a part of our lives ever since. Censorship is routinely used to shut down anyone exposing all these correlates. Alex Jones did contribute to this unveiling. > > > Cultural Marxism and the deep state > > But there's a deeper layer that Jones occasionally alludes to but inconsistently promulgates, that being Cultural Marxism (CM). It is at the core of this censorship debate. It receives rare press review and is branded the usual 'conspiracy theory' status. It's the grand underlying scheme that targets the traditional family and white nationalist males among a long list of like concepts. It disingenuously foists fringe groups like LGBTQ to the fore and takes advantage of ordinary citizen's fears of being branded a racist or misogynist to exact cultural change. In this case, the methodology is gradualism and subversion of the system through infiltration rather than confrontation and revolution. > > The Democratic Party is infused with this ideology. They have lost power and are pulling out all stops to regain it. Its Political Correctness wing is somewhat familiar, but recent illegal activities (Fisagate) and this full-bore double-standard censorship is a new development and a sign of desperation. > > There is a political path in a route to power which CM is an unseen member, that can be described with a succession of "isms", that being Fabianism, Socialism, Communism, American Left, Liberals, British Labour, and the American Democratic Party. Upon Googling this string, Wikipedia's 'American Left' page is found at the top of the search results. CM should be in this list, but it is not because of its Jewish roots and inherent clandestine character. Left theoreticians consider it a 'conspiracy theory' aligned with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. > > Because of its Jewish roots, the coverage of Cultural Marxism within the Democratic party is a taboo subject in all the major MSM publications and a search on "cultural marxism" or "new left" on Democrats.org results in 0, nothing. but some second tier outlets will entertain it but most with a soft pedal. > > There is one relatively mainstream Medium website article entitled: 'Cultural Marxism, How this idea is destroying the Democratic Party'. The pertinent paragraph is: > > "There was a need for societal reform. Cultural Marxism did provide a vehicle for this. However, the need for cultural Marxism should HAVE ENDED when equality was reached. The seminal moment of the election of Obama should have been the end of the progressive movement. Instead, the Democratic Party has doubled-down on cultural Marxist ideals and now is more in the game for retribution than equality". > > That retribution is the 'Saul Alinsky' effect. He was an important proponent of Cultural Marxism and a mentor to Hillary Clinton. All major university social science departments are bastions of Cultural Marxism hiding behind monikers like Critical Theory, Queer Theory, Feminist Studies, Black Studies and the majority of professors in these fields are either Jewish or Jewish apologists. > > These social science departments strictly censor any mention of 9/11 Truth, JFK assassination or Holocaust examination. Any attempt leads to immediate career destruction because they all can be traced back to Israel if closely examined. > > CM's Jewish roots go back to the beginning of the 20th Century in Weimar Germany. The failure of the Communist revolution led to its creation as a cultural attempt to the same ends, where Western / Christian cultural destruction is a prerequisite. The West has been in the grips of this phase for decades if not millennia if you consider the Christianity / Judaism rivalry. Far more Christians have suffered than Jews. > > Hitler ejected CM's principal Jewish figures from Germany in the early 1930s in concert with the German people who feared and loathed Jews for their greed, perversion, and atheism. They landed in the US, first at Columbia University, then on to all of academia in America. It clandestinely permeates Liberal Democratic think tanks throughout the political and social studies landscape. > > The Clintons / Saul Alinsky brand is a thread of CM.  Colin Kaepernick's taking a knee is CM. CM's Social Justice Warriors permeate modern politics from Black Lives Matter to Same-Sex Marriage. Its overreach and subsequent backlash created the opportunity for Trump to challenge this tide. Trump called out Political Correctness in his successful campaign for President. > > CM was born out of the realization that Communism's economic revolution has failed, but in reality, the chances of a cultural revolutionary path to Communism are no better. Capitalism and free markets are not vulnerable to existential threats, thus other motives must be behind this cultural revolution. Since CM is a Jewish construct, it just logically follows that the real goal is a Jewish world domination. This is confirmed in a close study of the Talmud (Tanakh). > > At the highest governing levels of secular Judaism is a criminal syndicate masquerading as a religion, namely Netanyahu and the Internationalist Jabotinsky Zionists whose supremacism is unmatched. The recent Jewish nation-state law passed in Israel confirms all of this. They, through AIPAC, have an iron grip on Congress, like no other lobby. > > Alex Jones has been vociferously been accused of being a Zionist shill and a raving antiSemite which supports the theory that his sensationalist clown mentality has a higher calling than his stance on Jews, so his views on CM have to be interpreted through this filter. > > > Notice the wolf in sheep's clothing > The Fabian Society, a precursor to CM, presents a crest that depicts a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the cultural rather than economic revolution that clandestinely, gradually and relentlessly guides the Left's grip that was unexpectedly short-circuited by Trump's election. Understanding modern politics is difficult without knowledge of CM. > > Alex Jones depicts it as a globalist tool for world domination but never connects it to Jews per se. This is a common occurrence in CM discourse. There is any number of groups that hijack CM, including Fundamentalist Christians, that use it for their own purposes and specifically omit its Jewish roots, because it complicates the message. Jews don't want to be conflated with Marxist Communism in any form mainly because it attaches them to their murder of tens of millions of Christians in the Bolshevik / Russian revolution. > > > Benjamin Netanyahu with Breitbart and staff > Breitbart.com is billed as a leader in exposing CM in American culture, but they too never mention its Jewish roots because it's Zionist controlled opposition. A search of their site on the term "Jew" results in hundreds of articles, none critical of Israel or Jews. None mention CM's Jewish roots. For Breitbart, it is primarily a tool to bash Liberals accusing them of cultural subversion, diversity, pro-immigration and political correctness, without including the revolutionary component. > > All major Jewish organizations promote Multiculturalism except its application to the Palestinians. > > Alex Jones occasionally mentions CM but only superficially and with his usual carnival barker mentality. Behind CM's sometimes unintelligible academic-speak is the destruction of Western traditional culture through subversion and deceit. Anything taboo becomes acceptable. Perversion is the norm. > > From a Forbes article on one of CM's principal figures is the following paragraph: "Marcuse's "liberating tolerance" essentially prescribed that any view or behavior formerly considered anti-social or un-American must be tolerated – maybe even encouraged. However, anything reinforcing tradition, patriotism, biblical morality or capitalism should ultimately be denounced. "Transvaluation," transformed virtue into sin and sin into virtue." > > > William Lind, Donald Trump > Donald Trump met with William Lind (above), a paleoconservative and one of the recognized leaders in the promotion of CM theory. He asserts that Marxists control much of modern popular media and that political correctness can be directly attributed to Karl Marx. > > A Rothschild is known to have supported Marx, the Frankfurt School, and other CM entities. > > The book in their hands is Lind's The Next Conservatism, co-written with his friend and close working colleague the late Paul Weyrich – who is generally credited as one of the top three co-architects of the contemporary American religious right. > > CM's weapon, called "Identity Politics" is billed as a struggle for social equality but in reality is just another cynical bid for political power. Jones knows that his audience is well aware of this. They know that deep state Liberal leaders are attempting to carpet bomb them into Cukeservative oblivion. Deleting all his videos may have the opposite effect and invigorate them. > > CM, Multiculturalism, and Political Correctness ooze censorship. This happens when powerful people get scared. > > One of their reactions to the fear was to deliberately create a new 'Fake News' phenomena. It has all the makings of Hegelian dialectic. Bombard your target with well-chosen fake information (thesis), observe the confusion created (antithesis), then offer a preconceived remedy (synthesis).  Facebook chose the Atlantic Council as the synthetic entity, a think tank steeped in deep state credentials. > > But Trump, to his credit, has effectively hijacked this plot, successfully branding the MSM as Fake News.  It must be working because they've validated his success with a nation-wide 'collusion' of dozens of major news outlets attacking Trumps (justified) assault on the MSM. > > With the inclusion of CM in this analysis comes the inevitable "Jewish Question" which has dogged, for valid reasons, the media ownership controversy for decades. Volumes are dedicated to validating the fact of Jewish control over the media. Many of the sources are Jews who brag about it including Nahum Goldmann (president of World Jewish Congress) in his since 1978 unobtainable book 'The Jewish Paradox'. > > Facebook and YouTube cannot escape this subject for their leadership is inextricably linked to this issue because of their being Jewish (irrespective of brand) and the most vocal backlash to Jones (and Trump) is led by Jewish organizations, ie. the MSM > > Trump's characterization of the press as the 'enemy of the people' probably best exemplifies his relationship to the Jewish elite that controls the MSM. Wolf Blitzer, a former AIPAC spokesperson, and CNN are at the fore of the anti-Trump movement. Trump's alignment with Jones squarely defines his opposition to that cabal. > > The Jewish Question > In the broader view of the Jewish Question, vast slices of US culture is permeated by their influence but is effectively obscured by an undoubtedly Jewish controlled press. > > The election of Donald Trump has, like never before, rattled the fully entrenched Left in America and they have pulled out all stops and even resorted to illegal actions to remedy their plight. They will continue beyond rational means. > > It may seem somewhat odious to list past Jewish behaviors that they have resorted to in order to sustain their inordinate position of power, but I believe its necessary to reiterate them. Certain elements will stop at nothing including assassination to attain their goals. It's been going on for centuries. > > > > The list is long and telling and needs to be reiterated. It begins historically with the well-documented Jewish dominance of the African slave trade, the American Revolution (Rothschild Zionists funded British Crown mercenaries), War of 1812 (correlation between closing of [First] Bank of US and Rothschild funding of the war), Rothschild banks funded both sides of Civil War (see Belmont, Erlangers), Lincoln assassinated because of Greenbacks, Garfield assassinated in 1881 for warning about Jewish banks, JP Morgan engineered Panic of 1907 that led to Aldrich's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, WWI (1914) could not happen without fiat finance of that Act, JP Morgan (Rothschild controlled) engineered 1929 panic leading to Great Depression, NY Jewish bankers (Schiff) financed Bolshevik Revolution and industrialization of Soviet Union, bribed Wilson into entering WWI, Jews instrumental in creating Treaty of Versailles that led to WWII, Jews controlled the NAACP for decades for PR purposes, Lyndon Johnson (Jewish mother) and Israel complicit in JFK assassination to continue Vietnam War and their nuclear weapons program,  Israeli spies including the Rosenbergs (nuclear weapons secrets to Soviet Union) and Jonathan Pollard (US secrets for Jewish emigration from Russia)are the most infamous among dozens, Malkin (Jew) leader of banking cabal in Savings & Loan scandal), Jews created the Las Vegas gambling empires, Jews have a secret relationship with Saudi Arabia to control ME oil, Jews were leaders of LTCM scandal, they did 9/11 and its attendant and contrived Islamophia, Jewish controlled banks engineered 2008 housing meltdown. > > To minimize Jewish influence on American history is a bald-faced lie. To suspect its influence today is prudent. What is mentioned above is mostly concerned with military and financial concepts, where CM is obviously cultural but no less important. Another list could be developed from this perspective. > Smut peddling began in the late 19th century with Jewish books being the first. In the 1970s, according to the DoJ, Reuben Sturman controlled the entire US adult bookstore industry with over 200 shops. Linked to Sturman is Jew Steven Hirsch who modernized the industry. Then Al Goldstein's Screw Mag entered the picture. Introduced was the view by some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. Their aim was to defile the authoritarian Christian culture much the same as CM's nihilism seeks to destroy Western culture in order to rebuild it under Jewish control. This was all earlier manifested in Weimar Germany with the attendant Christian backlash to the Jewish subversion of their society. Fast forward to Stephen Cohen's Sex.com, according to Reuters is worth $250 million. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. The liquor (Annheiser-Busch created by Jews, in 1916 80% of National Liquor Dealers Association members were Jews) and gambling industries (Adelson) were started and now dominated by Jews. Funk & Wagnalls: in 1916 85% of tobacco industry controlled by Jews. Until the last few years, Tel Aviv was a world center of human and organ trafficking. Catholic priest sexual abuse is matched by Rabbis but this news is buried. Volumes could be written on these subjects. We are dealing with the most egregious political and moral disease of humankind. Like no other group of peoples, they have been expelled from well over 100 countries. History will continue to repeat itself until we wake up. > > The latest attempt to remove Trump from power has been dubbed Fisagate, where the Liberal / deep state has weaponized US intelligence agencies, Dept of State and the Dept of Justice to exonerate Hillary Clinton and frame Donald Trump in order to impeach him. This makes this censorship of Alex Jones incident or Charlottesville look like childs play, but they fit the pattern is clear and they fit historically into the above list of horrendous black ops. We have to wonder who and what's next if they don't attain their goals. > > Sources: > > newsfollowup.com/cultural_marxism_multiculturalism_political_correctness_9-11_truth_frankfurt_jews_capitalism_hoax.html > > https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Infowars.pdf > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Left > > https://medium.com/@JakeHighwell/cultural-marxism-how-this-ideology-is-destroying-the-democratic-party-edb230d34d94 > > https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/the_quiet_revolution_how_the_new_left_took_over_the_democratic_party_.html > > http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm > > https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/remember-when-donald-trump-appeared-on-alex-jones-infowars-1.5443723 > > https://4thgenwar.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/trump-meets-man-who-inspired-2011-terror-attack-deadlier-than-orlando-shooting/ > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > http://destoryculturalmarxism.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-cultural-marxism.html > > https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-12/birth-cultural-marxism-how-frankfurt-school-changed-america > > http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/ > > https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/23/just-like-obama-valerie-jarretts-family-investigated-by-fbi-for-communist-ties-fbi-files-included/ > > https://www.timesofisrael.com/final-text-of-jewish-nation-state-bill-set-to-become-law/ > > http://www.returnofkings.com/page/6?s=cultural+marxism > > https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/08/enforcing-our-community-standards/ > > https://www.vox.com/2018/8/6/17655658/alex-jones-facebook-youtube-conspiracy-theories > > https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-youtube-ban-infowars-but-invite-new-headaches/ > > http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/will-facebook-finally-fight-disinformation-or-just-make-things-worse > > http://www.jrbooksonline.com/intl_jew_full_version/ij62.htm How Jews Gained American Liquor Control > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) > > > > Stephen Francis is the author of NewsFollowUp.com established in 2002, he is a graduate of the University of Illinois with a BA in Sociology. He was an in-uniform Vietnam War protestor jailed for disobeying direct orders in a 1969 Veteran's Day protest. He has been a facilitator and speaker at a number of 9/11 Truth and Academic Freedom conferences since 2014. New in-progress projects include the creation of a 'conspiracy theory' MySQL database with cryptocurrency, bounty, and fundraising features attached to the domain name ConspiracyCoin.io. > > POSTED BY JIM FETZER AT 7:25 PM > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Mon Sep 3 17:53:40 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 17:53:40 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Waymakers for Peace References: <5b8d54f2a63a5_615a32e6ba427159047@ip-10-0-0-210.mail> Message-ID: <1CB70257-9135-4567-BCEB-0EC3D6B5424F@illinois.edu> From: "David, World BEYOND War" > Subject: Waymakers for Peace Date: September 3, 2018 [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/wbwnosub300.jpg] “The whole city of Hiroshima was gone. And the noise I heard — it was people. They were moaning and walking like zombies with their arms and hands stretched out in front of them and their skin was hanging off their bones.” Not everyone was walking. Not everyone was even so much as a prostrate corpse. Many people had been vaporized like water on a hot frying pan. They left “shadows” on the ground that in some cases still remain. But some walked or crawled. Some made it to hospitals where others could hear their exposed bones clacking on the floor like high heels. At the hospitals, maggots crawled into their wounds and their noses and ears. The maggots ate the patients alive from the inside out. The dead sounded metallic when thrown into trashcans and trucks, sometimes with their young children crying and moaning for them nearby. The black rain fell for days, raining death and horror. Those who drank water died instantly. Those who thirsted dared not drink. Those untouched by illness sometimes developed red spots and died quickly enough to watch the death seep over them. The living lived in terror. The dead were added to mountains of bones now viewed as lovely grass hills from which the smell has finally departed. These are the stories recounted in Melinda Clarke’s small and perfect new book, Waymakers for Peace: Hiroshima and Nagasaki Survivors Speak. "The issue, it seems to me, isn’t That Day," says one survivor. "The real question is war. War is the unpardonable crime against heaven and humanity. War is a disgrace to civilization.” Clarke concludes her book with a discussion of the significance of the Kellogg-Briand Pact to the ongoing struggle to end all war. We'll mail you a copy of this amazing new book when you sign on as a sustaining monthly contributor to World BEYOND War for $9 a month or more. You can choose any of these premiums: [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/hiroshima.jpg] Waymakers for Peace: Hiroshima and Nagasaki Survivors Speak by Melinda Clarke. Read review by David Swanson. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/scarf.jpg] A sky blue scarf symbolizing the one sky under which all people live and signifying our dedication to ending all war. Learn more here. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/shirt.jpg] If you select t-shirt, you'll need to also send us an email letting us know what style, size, and color you would like and where we should mail it. We have lots of different t-shirts. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/agss100.jpg] A Global Security System: An Alternative to War (AGSS) is World BEYOND War’s effort to describe an alternative security system – one in which peace is pursued by peaceful means – to replace the present war system. It describes the “hardware” of creating a peace system, and the “software” — the values and concepts — necessary to operate a peace system and the means to spread these globally. Learn more. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/ce100.png] Curing Exceptionalism: What’s wrong with how we think about the United States? What can we do about it? by David Swanson.U.S. exceptionalism, the idea that the United States of America is superior to other nations, is no more fact-based and no less harmful than racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry. The purpose of this book is to persuade you of that statement. This book examines how the United States actually compares with other countries, how people think about the comparison, what damage that thinking does, and what changes we might want to consider making. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/winj-cover.jpg] War Is Never Just by David Swanson. This book builds a case that the time has come to set behind us the idea that a war can ever be just. This critique of “Just War” theory finds the criteria such theories use to be either unmeasurable, unachievable, or amoral, and the perspective taken too narrow. This book argues that belief in the possibility of a just war does tremendous damage by facilitating enormous investment in war preparations–which strips resources from human and environmental needs while creating momentum for numerous unjust wars. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/wp100.jpg] Waging Peace by David Hartsough is a testament to the difference one person can make. Hartsough’s stories inspire, educate, and encourage readers to find ways to work for a more just and peaceful world. Inspired by the examples of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., Hartsough has spent his life experimenting with the power of active nonviolence. It is the story of one man’s effort to live as though we were all brothers and sisters. [warnomore100] War No More: The Case for Abolition, by David Swanson. This book, with a foreword by Kathy Kelly, presents what numerous reviewers have called the best existing argument for the abolition of war, demonstrating that war can be ended, war should be ended, war is not ending on its own, and that we must end war. [wtwow100] When the World Outlawed War, by David Swanson. A forgotten story from the 1920s of how people created a treaty to ban all war -- a treaty still on the books but not remembered. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/mr100.jpg] Military Recruiting in the United States by Pat Elder provides a fearless and penetrating description of the deceptive practices of the U.S. military as it recruits American youth into the armed forces. The long-time antiwar activist exposes the underworld of American military recruiting in this explosive and consequential book. The book describes how recruiters manage to convince youth to enlist. It details a sophisticated psy-ops campaign directed at children. [morrow100] Look Not Unto the Morrow by Robert Fantina. Innocence shattered and ultimate redemption are portrayed against the backdrop of the Vietnam War and the turbulent sixties. The story follows the lives of three young people as they experience love and war. Roger Gaines is the promising young college student, drafted into the army and traumatized by his experiences in basic training and Vietnam. Pam Wentworth is the loving girlfriend he leaves behind, who evolves from naive college student, to political activist, to radical anarchist. [soldiers100] They Were Soldiers: How the Wounded Return from America's Wars: The Untold Story by Ann Jones. After the American invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, Ann Jones spent a good part of a decade there working with Afghan civilians—especially women—and writing about the impact of war on their lives: the subject of Kabul in Winter (2006). That book revealed the yawning chasm between America’s promises to Afghans and its actual performance in the country. Meanwhile, Jones was pondering another evident contradiction: between the U.S. military’s optimistic progress reports to Americans and its costly, clueless failures in Afghanistan as well as Iraq. In 2010-2011, she decided to see for herself what that “progress” in Afghanistan was costing American soldiers. She borrowed some body armor and embedded with U.S. troops. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/wial100.jpg] War Is A Lie by David Swanson. This is a widely praised best-selling classic. "There are three insightful books I've read that explain how and why no good can come of the current U.S. reliance on military force and war in seeking its desired 'Pax Americana': War Is A Racket by General Smedley Butler; War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning by Chris Hedges, and War Is A Lie by David Swanson." — Coleen Rowley, former FBI special agent, whistleblower, and Time magazine person of the year. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/iph.jpg] An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz is the 2015 Recipient of the American Book Award and the first history of the United States told from the perspective of indigenous peoples. Spanning more than four hundred years, this classic bottom-up peoples’ history radically reframes US history and explodes the silences that have haunted our national narrative. [dissentcover100] Dissent: Voices of Conscience by Ann Wright, Susan Dixon, Daniel Ellsberg. During the run-up to war in Iraq, Army Colonel (Ret.) and diplomat Ann Wright resigned her State Department post in protest. Wright, who had spent 19 years in the military and 16 years in diplomatic service, was one among dozens of government insiders and active-duty military personnel who spoke out, resigned, leaked documents, or refused to deploy in protest of government actions they felt were illegal. In Dissent: Voices of Conscience, Ann Wright and Susan Dixon tell the stories of these men and women, who risked careers, reputations, and even freedom out of loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law. [addicted100] Addicted to War: Why the U.S. Can't Kick Militarism by Joel Andreas. Hard-hitting, carefully documented and heavily illustrated, this book reveals why the United States has been involved in more wars in recent years than any other country. Read Addicted to War to find out who benefits from these military adventures, who pays—and who dies. Over 120,000 copies of the previous edition are in print. This new edition is substantially reworked and fully updated through the War in Iraq. “A witty and devastating portrait of U.S. military policy.”—Howard Zinn [myers100] Living Beyond War: A Citizens Guide by Winslow Myers. As Winslow Myers shows in this concise, eloquent primer, what is truly unrealistic is the notion that war remains a reasonable solution to the conflicts on our planet. He begins by showing why war has become obsolete (though obviously not extinct): it doesn't solve the problems that ostensibly justify it; its costs are unacceptably high; the destructiveness of modern weapons could lead to human extinction; and there are better alternatives. Finally, he outlines practical alternatives and inspiring examples that anticipate the goal of a world "beyond war." [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/cip.jpg] Civilization is Possible by Blase Bonpane. Radio commentaries and interviews directed to the formation of an international peace system. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/gop.jpg] Guerrillas of Peace, Liberation Theology and the Central American Revolution by Blase Bonpane. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/gopota.jpg] Guerrillas of Peace On the Air by Blase Bonpane. Radio commentaries, reports and interviews which promote the ideology of peace. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/csftc.jpg] Common Sense for the Twenty-first Century by Blase Bonpane. Radio commentaries and interviews directed to the formation of an international peace system. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/pw.jpg] Playing War by Kathy Beckwith. One summer day Luke and his friends decide to play their favorite game of war, but Sameer, who is new to the neighborhood, hesitates to join in. [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/amcaw.jpg] A Mighty Case Against War by Kathy Beckwith. Beckwith relates a history of America's wars that includes "What America Missed in U.S. History Class." She details why war sells, the fallacies of common justifications for war, true costs of war, and sensible alternatives. A Mighty Case Against War proposes that this culturally supported, deeply entrenched system of governmental violence is simply too costly, destructive, counterproductive, and inhumane to leave unchallenged. Become a World BEYOND War sustainer. World BEYOND War is a global network of volunteers, activists, and allied organizations advocating for the abolition of the very institution of war. Our success is driven by a people-powered movement – support our work for a culture of peace. 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URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 15:12:42 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:12:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >> >> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >> >> >> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >> >> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >> >> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >> >> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >> >> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >> >> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >> >> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >> >> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >> >> September 4, 2018 >> >> Institute for Public Accuracy >> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Sep 4 15:44:12 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 15:44:12 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> References: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> Message-ID: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE > > >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>> >>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>> >>> >>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>> >>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>> >>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>> >>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>> >>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>> >>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>> >>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>> >>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>> >>> September 4, 2018 >>> >>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 15:55:08 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:55:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DD8DF55-9FC7-4C31-A90E-B0CF51D3EA53@gmail.com> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook > wrote: >> >> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >> >> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >> >> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >> >> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>>> >>>> >>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>>> >>>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>>> >>>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>>> >>>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>>> >>>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>>> >>>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>>> >>>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>>> >>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>>> >>>> September 4, 2018 >>>> >>>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:08:43 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 16:08:43 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: <9DD8DF55-9FC7-4C31-A90E-B0CF51D3EA53@gmail.com> References: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> <9DD8DF55-9FC7-4C31-A90E-B0CF51D3EA53@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook > wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook > wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Tue Sep 4 17:12:11 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:12:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <5DB2C21A-335E-4909-A381-821C340069CE@gmail.com> <9DD8DF55-9FC7-4C31-A90E-B0CF51D3EA53@gmail.com> Message-ID: Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: > > ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. > 18 BC) > > = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of > his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is > only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s > lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in > civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics > program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time > Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly > growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other > social supports. —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] > > > FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu > > Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois > College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are > Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle > Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats > will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under > cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis > Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. > > “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You > need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the > jugular.' > > "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate > Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal > establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a > lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... > > "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are > planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. > > "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to > ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of > saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it > tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' > > "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage > Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme > Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a > legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier > for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make > the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be > bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for > women.'" > > See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." > > For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: > Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 > > September 4, 2018 > > Institute for Public Accuracy > 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 > (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org > > * ipa at accuracy.org > Sent via ActionNetwork.org > . > To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop > receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% > 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f% > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata= > 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Tue Sep 4 17:29:57 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 13:29:57 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:54:01 2018 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:54:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: > > Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) > > Midge > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm > Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" > > > Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? > > Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. > > Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? > > Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? > > Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: > > ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) > > = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] > > > FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu > Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. > > “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' > > "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... > > "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. > > "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' > > "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" > > See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." > > For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: > Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 > > September 4, 2018 > > Institute for Public Accuracy > 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 > (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org > Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Tue Sep 4 17:56:35 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:56:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" In-Reply-To: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: I know Robert Weissman well. He's a good man. We've been friends for many many years. His hatred of the Empire is pure. He sees these things through a Democratic DC lens and makes no bones about it. He didn't support Ralph's run for President in 2000, even though he was a key Ralph lieutenant at the time. And still is. Therefore, I wouldn't take Rob's words as Gospel on the strategic value of this fight. He knows that Public Citizen can raise money and sign people up for the Public Citizen list based on positioning itself as opposed to Kavanaugh's confirmation. I doubt he would publicly sign his name to the claim that Kavanaugh's confirmation can be stopped. I don't think he could personally stomach that much lying. === Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien wrote: > Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of > Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) > > Midge > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm > Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are > Astronomical" > > > Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? > > Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is > expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. > Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the > "stakes" are zero. > > Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? > > Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? > > Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention > on it? > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: > > ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. > 18 BC) > > = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of > his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is > only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s > lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in > civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics > program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time > Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly > growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other > social supports. —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] > > > FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu > > Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois > College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are > Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle > Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats > will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under > cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis > Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. > > “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You > need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the > jugular.' > > "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate > Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal > establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a > lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... > > "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are > planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. > > "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to > ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of > saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it > tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' > > "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage > Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme > Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a > legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier > for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make > the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be > bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for > women.'" > > See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." > > For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: > Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 > > September 4, 2018 > > Institute for Public Accuracy > 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 > (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org > > * ipa at accuracy.org > Sent via ActionNetwork.org > . > To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop > receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > 3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace& > data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7 > fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata > =2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Tue Sep 4 23:23:17 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 07:23:17 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven.  Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Tue Sep 4 23:23:17 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 07:23:17 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven.  Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278de3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716707659411731&sdata=2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33IqbSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 12:53:06 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 07:53:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, Sept. 4 Message-ID: <4426A001-B7DC-4D66-87F8-BA0BA698A3D3@gmail.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UrtW4tepzM AWARE ON THE AIR is presented by members and friends of AWARE, the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana, a local peace group, and recorded In the studios of Urbana Public Television on September 4, in the 36th week of 2018 - another week in which the world can see that the most extensive global terrorism is US world-wide war-making. ~ Our show Is produced and directed by Jason Liggett & Crofton Coleman - thanks to whom also this program & others like it will be available on YouTube & . ~ Our show tonight was largely written by Dr. Know/J. B. Nicholson. See Know’s Notes on the FB page for AOTA, along with links to articles referred to tonight >. ~ There’s a demonstration against Obama’s speech on campus this Friday. Karen Aram writes, ‘Former President Barack Obama will receive the “Paul H. Douglas Award for Ethics in Government” from the University of Illinois at Foellinger Auditorium on the UIUC campus on Friday, September 7th, 11:00 a.m. He will lecture on “authoritarian politics” and the “responsibilities of citizenship.” ‘In response and protest, a coalition of local peace and social justice groups plans to voice criticism of Obama’s policies and of the appropriateness of this award, beginning at 10:00 a.m. in front (on the north side) of Foellinger. ‘Informed speakers will address Obama’s war-making policies, especially in Libya and Syria, as well as his drone assassination program; his support—even before becoming President—for the bail-out of Wall Street bankers rather than homeowners, and his continuation of neoliberal economic policies that continued to devastate working families throughout his administration; his deportation policies, which were precedent to those of the current administration; and his betrayal of campaign promises made to the labor movement in general and regarding pro-union “card check” (Employee Free Choice Act) legislation in particular. ‘Speakers representing a variety of organizations will have an opportunity to counter the university administration-promoted propaganda inherent in this visit, award, and lecture; and to do so in a truthful and dignified manner that attracts attention to the popular desire for peace and justice, and away from the cult of personality that is inherent in such a visit by a primary representative of American and global ruling elites.’ ~ There’s an open AWARE meeting this coming Sunday, 5-6pm - at Hammerhead Coffee, University Avenue at Wright Street on the NW edge of the campus. ~ Finally, AWARE honors those who reveal the crimes of the US government - which the rest of the world knows about, but Americans don't - Manning, Assange, Snowden, and others - who are truth-tellers persecuted by the US government. - particularly our 'liberal Democrat' Sen. Durbin, a shill for the Russiagate propaganda. ~ Now this is Carl Estabrook for members & friends of the Anti-war Anti-racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana - saying in the words of the late Edward Murrow, “Good night - and good luck." ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Wed Sep 5 13:06:35 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:06:35 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, Sept. 4 In-Reply-To: <4426A001-B7DC-4D66-87F8-BA0BA698A3D3@gmail.com> References: <4426A001-B7DC-4D66-87F8-BA0BA698A3D3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9dd24d5e-4581-e605-a084-87c33eb9ba94@pigs.ag> On the event of the Nobel Peace Prize... "How dare you?" "It's bull-shit!" "How come you all cheer when I say " -  Cindy Sheehan C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UrtW4tepzM > > AWARE ON THE AIR is presented by members and friends of AWARE, the > Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana, a local peace group, > and recorded In the studios of Urbana Public Television on September > 4, in the 36th week of 2018 - another week in which the world can see > that the most extensive global terrorism is US world-wide war-making. > > ~ Our show Is produced and directed by Jason Liggett & Crofton Coleman > - thanks to whom also this program & others like it will be available > on YouTube & >. > > ~ Our show tonight was largely written by Dr. Know/J. B. Nicholson. > See Know’s Notes on the FB page for AOTA, along with links to articles > referred to tonight . > > ~ There’s a demonstration against Obama’s speech on campus this > Friday. Karen Aram writes, > > ‘Former President Barack Obama will receive the “Paul H. Douglas Award > for Ethics in Government” from the University of Illinois at > Foellinger Auditorium on the UIUC campus on Friday, September 7th, > 11:00 a.m. He will lecture on “authoritarian politics” and the > “responsibilities of citizenship.” > ‘In response and protest, a coalition of local peace and social > justice groups plans to voice criticism of Obama’s policies and of the > appropriateness of this award, beginning at 10:00 a.m. in front (on > the north side) of Foellinger. > ‘Informed speakers will address Obama’s war-making policies, > especially in Libya and Syria, as well as his drone assassination > program; his support—even before becoming President—for the bail-out > of Wall Street bankers rather than homeowners, and his continuation of > neoliberal economic policies that continued to devastate working > families throughout his administration; his deportation policies, > which were precedent to those of the current administration; and his > betrayal of campaign promises made to the labor movement in general > and regarding pro-union “card check” (Employee Free Choice > Act) legislation in particular. > ‘Speakers representing a variety of organizations will have an > opportunity to counter the university administration-promoted > propaganda inherent in this visit, award, and lecture; and to do so in > a truthful and dignified manner that attracts attention to the popular > desire for peace and justice, and away from the cult of personality > that is inherent in such a visit by a primary representative of > American and global ruling elites.’ > > ~ There’s an open AWARE meeting this coming Sunday, 5-6pm - at > Hammerhead Coffee, University Avenue at Wright Street on the NW edge > of the campus. > > ~ Finally, AWARE honors those who reveal the crimes of the US > government - which the rest of the world knows about, but Americans > don't - Manning, Assange, Snowden, and others - who are truth-tellers > persecuted by the US government.   - particularly our 'liberal > Democrat' Sen. Durbin, a shill for the Russiagate propaganda. > > ~ Now this is Carl Estabrook for members & friends of the Anti-war > Anti-racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana - saying in the words of the > late Edward Murrow, “Good night - and good luck."     ### > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Wed Sep 5 13:15:26 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:15:26 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air, Sept. 4 In-Reply-To: <9dd24d5e-4581-e605-a084-87c33eb9ba94@pigs.ag> References: <4426A001-B7DC-4D66-87F8-BA0BA698A3D3@gmail.com> <9dd24d5e-4581-e605-a084-87c33eb9ba94@pigs.ag> Message-ID: <6e425949-b9be-f822-4ad6-401d30536e8b@pigs.ag> How dare you? https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/cindy-sheehan-how-dare-you/ E. Wayne Johnson via Peace-discuss wrote: > On the event of the Nobel Peace Prize... > > "How dare you?" > "It's bull-shit!" > "How come you all cheer when I say " > -  Cindy Sheehan > > > C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UrtW4tepzM >> >> AWARE ON THE AIR is presented by members and friends of AWARE, the >> Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana, a local peace group, >> and recorded In the studios of Urbana Public Television on September >> 4, in the 36th week of 2018 - another week in which the world can see >> that the most extensive global terrorism is US world-wide war-making. >> >> ~ Our show Is produced and directed by Jason Liggett & Crofton >> Coleman - thanks to whom also this program & others like it will be >> available on YouTube & >. >> >> ~ Our show tonight was largely written by Dr. Know/J. B. Nicholson. >> See Know’s Notes on the FB page for AOTA, along with links to >> articles referred to tonight >> . >> >> ~ There’s a demonstration against Obama’s speech on campus this >> Friday. Karen Aram writes, >> >> ‘Former President Barack Obama will receive the “Paul H. Douglas >> Award for Ethics in Government” from the University of Illinois at >> Foellinger Auditorium on the UIUC campus on Friday, September 7th, >> 11:00 a.m. He will lecture on “authoritarian politics” and the >> “responsibilities of citizenship.” >> ‘In response and protest, a coalition of local peace and social >> justice groups plans to voice criticism of Obama’s policies and of >> the appropriateness of this award, beginning at 10:00 a.m. in front >> (on the north side) of Foellinger. >> ‘Informed speakers will address Obama’s war-making policies, >> especially in Libya and Syria, as well as his drone assassination >> program; his support—even before becoming President—for the bail-out >> of Wall Street bankers rather than homeowners, and his continuation >> of neoliberal economic policies that continued to devastate working >> families throughout his administration; his deportation policies, >> which were precedent to those of the current administration; and his >> betrayal of campaign promises made to the labor movement in general >> and regarding pro-union “card check” (Employee Free Choice >> Act) legislation in particular. >> ‘Speakers representing a variety of organizations will have an >> opportunity to counter the university administration-promoted >> propaganda inherent in this visit, award, and lecture; and to do so >> in a truthful and dignified manner that attracts attention to the >> popular desire for peace and justice, and away from the cult of >> personality that is inherent in such a visit by a primary >> representative of American and global ruling elites.’ >> >> ~ There’s an open AWARE meeting this coming Sunday, 5-6pm - at >> Hammerhead Coffee, University Avenue at Wright Street on the NW edge >> of the campus. >> >> ~ Finally, AWARE honors those who reveal the crimes of the US >> government - which the rest of the world knows about, but Americans >> don't - Manning, Assange, Snowden, and others - who are truth-tellers >> persecuted by the US government.   - particularly our 'liberal >> Democrat' Sen. Durbin, a shill for the Russiagate propaganda. >> >> ~ Now this is Carl Estabrook for members & friends of the Anti-war >> Anti-racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana - saying in the words of the >> late Edward Murrow, “Good night - and good luck."       ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Wed Sep 5 15:16:04 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (Anne Parkinson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:16:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> Message-ID: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil.  i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate.  but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Wed Sep 5 15:16:04 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (Anne Parkinson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:16:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> Message-ID: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil.  i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate.  but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r-szoke at illinois.edu Wed Sep 5 15:42:19 2018 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:42:19 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Abolish U.S. Selective Service Draft Registration References: <5b8fec8752bf1_92687ca4e5826003921@ip-10-0-0-119.mail> Message-ID: <33A8BE61-8C80-410D-A608-79BEB28BD355@illinois.edu> From: World BEYOND War > Subject: Abolish U.S. Selective Service Draft Registration Date: September 5, 2018 [https://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/wbwnosub300.jpg] The future of the military draft in the United States will be determined, and we can have an impact. The U.S. National Commission on Military, National, and Public Service is accepting comments until September 30th. Here are some ideas for useful comments you might make in your own words: 1. End required selective service (draft) registration for men. 2. Do not begin requiring that women register. 3. If not ended, allow the choice of registering as a conscientious objector. 4. If there must be non-military service, make sure that its pay and benefits are at least equal to those of military "service." Submit your comments online. Or email national.commission.on.service.info at mail.mil Or mail National Commission on Military, National, and Public Service, Attn RFI Comment - Docket 05-2018-01, 2530 Crystal Drive Suite 1000 Room 1029 Arlington VA 22202. Consider making submission of comments part of any event you're involved in planning in the coming days. Here are other event resources. ________________________________ World BEYOND War is a global network of volunteers, activists, and allied organizations advocating for the abolition of the very institution of war. Our success is driven by a people-powered movement – support our work for a culture of peace. [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/wbwpledgelink.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/eventsbutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/shop.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/donatebutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/newsbutton.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/fb.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/twit.jpg] [http://worldbeyondwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/youtubeicon.jpg] World BEYOND War PO Box 1484 Charlottesville, VA 22902 USA Privacy policy. Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from World Beyond War, please click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 15:50:31 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 10:50:31 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From today’s News-Gazette: . —CGE > On Sep 5, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Anne Parkinson via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. > > Quotes do not excuse you. > > Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: > > > it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. > > one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. > it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. > > > > > > On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: > > Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. > Deb > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: > >> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >> >> Midge >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >> To: Karen Aram >> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >> >> >> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >> >> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >> >> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >> >> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >> >> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >> >> >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Director >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >> >> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >> >> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >> >> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >> >> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >> >> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >> >> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >> >> >> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >> >> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >> >> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >> >> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >> >> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >> >> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >> >> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >> >> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >> >> September 4, 2018 >> >> Institute for Public Accuracy >> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >> From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 15:50:31 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 10:50:31 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: From today’s News-Gazette: . —CGE > On Sep 5, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Anne Parkinson via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. > > Quotes do not excuse you. > > Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: > > > it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. > > one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. > it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. > > > > > > On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: > > Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. > Deb > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: > >> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >> >> Midge >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >> To: Karen Aram >> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >> >> >> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >> >> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >> >> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >> >> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >> >> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >> >> >> >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Director >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >> (202) 448-2898 x1 >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >> >> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >> >> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >> >> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >> >> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >> >> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >> >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >> >> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >> >> >> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >> >> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >> >> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >> >> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >> >> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >> >> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >> >> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >> >> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >> >> September 4, 2018 >> >> Institute for Public Accuracy >> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >> From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:03:17 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 16:03:17 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson > wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss > wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace > wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss >; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook > wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook > wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:03:17 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 16:03:17 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson > wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss > wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace > wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss >; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook > wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram > wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook > wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:42:58 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 11:42:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary Message-ID: X-PRESIDENT'S Ul VISIT 944 students win lottery to see Obama 22,000 signed up for chance at Huff Hall seat for speech By JULIE WURTH jwurth at news-gazette.com URBANA — Almost 950 students at the University of Illinois won the Obama lottery Tuesday night. UI officials notified 944 students, including 756 at the Urbana campus, that they had been selected to attend Friday’s speech by former President Barack Obama, who will visit the UI to receive an ethicsin- government award. Another 141 are from the UI Chicago, and 47 are from the UI Springfield. A viewing party has also been scheduled at Huff Hall for Friday morning’s speech, with room for about 4,000 students. More than 22,000 students at the Urbana campus alone had thrown in their names for a coveted seat at Foellinger Auditorium, which normally has a capacity of about 1,300. UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said some seats have to be removed to accommodate television cameras, and the bulk of the remaining seats will go to members of the media. Others are reserved for administrators from each campus and dignitaries, she said. Students were notified about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. Kaler said tickets were given out to a randomized list of students who had entered the lottery, the same way that lotteries for concerts and other popular events are handled. Obama is being honored the Paul H. Douglas Ethics in Government Award from the UI’s Institute of Government and Public Affairs, a university- system-level unit. He will be honored at a private ceremony following his 11 a.m. speech at Foellinger. The former president opted to come to the Urbana campus to receive the award, rather than Chicago or Washington, D.C., where he now lives. A spokeswoman said last week he liked the idea of going downstate to meet with students and to illustrate the need for Democrats to reach out to all kinds of voters, not just those in major urban areas. Some students who were not selected in the lottery expressed their disappointment on Reddit and Twitter. “Finding out President Obama is coming to campus only to not win a ticket is the ultimate emotional roller coaster,” wrote Connor Durm. The UI ticket notice, posted by one user on Reddit, urged those who did not receive tickets to tune in to the livestream of the broadcast at go.illinois.edu/live or attend the viewing party at Huff Hall Gymnasium, 1206 S. Fourth St., C. Doors to Huff will open at 9 a.m. Space is limited, and there will be no admittance after 10:30 a.m., according to the notice. Students also must show a university ID to get in and won’t be able to bring backpacks, bags, signs, megaphones, food, drinks or umbrellas inside, or “any other items that university police determine pose a risk to safety or a disruption of the event.” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:46:34 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 16:46:34 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Our demonstration will begin 10:30 am, as close to Foellinger as we can get. Meeting at the South door of the Student Union, facing the Quad, at about 9:40am. On Sep 5, 2018, at 09:42, David Green > wrote: X-PRESIDENT'S Ul VISIT 944 students win lottery to see Obama 22,000 signed up for chance at Huff Hall seat for speech By JULIE WURTH jwurth at news-gazette.com URBANA — Almost 950 students at the University of Illinois won the Obama lottery Tuesday night. UI officials notified 944 students, including 756 at the Urbana campus, that they had been selected to attend Friday’s speech by former President Barack Obama, who will visit the UI to receive an ethicsin- government award. Another 141 are from the UI Chicago, and 47 are from the UI Springfield. A viewing party has also been scheduled at Huff Hall for Friday morning’s speech, with room for about 4,000 students. More than 22,000 students at the Urbana campus alone had thrown in their names for a coveted seat at Foellinger Auditorium, which normally has a capacity of about 1,300. UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said some seats have to be removed to accommodate television cameras, and the bulk of the remaining seats will go to members of the media. Others are reserved for administrators from each campus and dignitaries, she said. Students were notified about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. Kaler said tickets were given out to a randomized list of students who had entered the lottery, the same way that lotteries for concerts and other popular events are handled. Obama is being honored the Paul H. Douglas Ethics in Government Award from the UI’s Institute of Government and Public Affairs, a university- system-level unit. He will be honored at a private ceremony following his 11 a.m. speech at Foellinger. The former president opted to come to the Urbana campus to receive the award, rather than Chicago or Washington, D.C., where he now lives. A spokeswoman said last week he liked the idea of going downstate to meet with students and to illustrate the need for Democrats to reach out to all kinds of voters, not just those in major urban areas. Some students who were not selected in the lottery expressed their disappointment on Reddit and Twitter. “Finding out President Obama is coming to campus only to not win a ticket is the ultimate emotional roller coaster,” wrote Connor Durm. The UI ticket notice, posted by one user on Reddit, urged those who did not receive tickets to tune in to the livestream of the broadcast at go.illinois.edu/live or attend the viewing party at Huff Hall Gymnasium, 1206 S. Fourth St., C. Doors to Huff will open at 9 a.m. Space is limited, and there will be no admittance after 10:30 a.m., according to the notice. Students also must show a university ID to get in and won’t be able to bring backpacks, bags, signs, megaphones, food, drinks or umbrellas inside, or “any other items that university police determine pose a risk to safety or a disruption of the event.” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:23:11 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. Uncomfortable as that may be. Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. —CGE > On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” From today’s News-Gazette: . —CGE > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >> >> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >> >> Quotes do not excuse you. >> >> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >> >> >> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >> >> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >> >> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >> Deb >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >> >>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>> >>> Midge >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>> To: Karen Aram >>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>> >>> >>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>> >>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>> >>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>> >>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>> >>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert Naiman >>> Policy Director >>> Just Foreign Policy >>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>> >>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>> >>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>> >>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>> >>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>> >>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>> >>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>> >>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>> >>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>> >>> >>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>> >>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>> >>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>> >>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>> >>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>> >>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>> >>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>> >>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>> >>> September 4, 2018 >>> >>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:23:11 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. Uncomfortable as that may be. Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. —CGE > On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” From today’s News-Gazette: . —CGE > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >> >> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >> >> Quotes do not excuse you. >> >> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >> >> >> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >> >> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >> >> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >> Deb >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >> >>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>> >>> Midge >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>> To: Karen Aram >>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>> >>> >>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>> >>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>> >>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>> >>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>> >>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert Naiman >>> Policy Director >>> Just Foreign Policy >>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>> >>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>> >>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>> >>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>> >>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>> >>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>> >>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>> >>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>> >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>> >>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>> >>> >>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>> >>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>> >>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>> >>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>> >>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>> >>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>> >>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>> >>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>> >>> September 4, 2018 >>> >>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:27:36 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 22:27:36 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I was referring to Anne’s statement: > > "Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum.” > > But it applies to your article as well. > On Sep 5, 2018, at 15:23, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. > > I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. > > Uncomfortable as that may be. > > Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. > > —CGE > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >> >> Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” > > > From today’s News-Gazette: > > . > > —CGE > >> >> >>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >>> >>> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >>> >>> Quotes do not excuse you. >>> >>> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> >>> >>> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >>> >>> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >>> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >>> >>> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >>> Deb >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >>> >>>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>>> >>>> Midge >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>>> To: Karen Aram >>>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>>> >>>> >>>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>>> >>>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>>> >>>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>>> >>>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>>> >>>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert Naiman >>>> Policy Director >>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>> >>>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>>> >>>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>> >>>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>>> >>>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>> >>>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>>> >>>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>>> >>>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>>> >>>> >>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>>> >>>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>>> >>>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>>> >>>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>>> >>>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>>> >>>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>>> >>>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>>> >>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>>> >>>> September 4, 2018 >>>> >>>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:27:36 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 22:27:36 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I was referring to Anne’s statement: > > "Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum.” > > But it applies to your article as well. > On Sep 5, 2018, at 15:23, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. > > I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. > > Uncomfortable as that may be. > > Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. > > —CGE > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >> >> Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” > > > From today’s News-Gazette: > > . > > —CGE > >> >> >>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >>> >>> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >>> >>> Quotes do not excuse you. >>> >>> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> >>> >>> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >>> >>> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >>> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >>> >>> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >>> Deb >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >>> >>>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>>> >>>> Midge >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>>> To: Karen Aram >>>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>>> >>>> >>>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>>> >>>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>>> >>>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>>> >>>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>>> >>>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert Naiman >>>> Policy Director >>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>> >>>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>>> >>>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>> >>>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>>> >>>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>> >>>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>>> >>>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>>> >>>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>>> >>>> >>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>>> >>>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>>> >>>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>>> >>>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>>> >>>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>>> >>>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>>> >>>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>>> >>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>>> >>>> September 4, 2018 >>>> >>>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:30:04 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:30:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE censorship References: Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: peace-owner at lists.chambana.net > Subject: Your message to Peace awaits moderator approval > Date: September 5, 2018 at 5:29:42 PM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > > Your mail to 'Peace' with the subject > > Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes > areAstronomical" > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Post to moderated list > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/confirm/peace/8be7484ffbf3ef752638fc48d6d193bb292f6f03 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:38:04 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps discussion would be better than hysteria. It might even lead us to ‘resisting' the wars, rather than Trump. > On Sep 5, 2018, at 5:27 PM, Karen Aram wrote: > >> I was referring to Anne’s statement: >> >> "Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum.” >> >> But it applies to your article as well. > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 15:23, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. >> >> I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. >> >> Uncomfortable as that may be. >> >> Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. >> >> —CGE >> >> >>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> >>> Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” >> >> >> From today’s News-Gazette: >> >> . >> >> —CGE >> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >>>> >>>> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >>>> >>>> Quotes do not excuse you. >>>> >>>> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >>>> >>>> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >>>> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >>>> >>>> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>>>> >>>>> Midge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>>>> To: Karen Aram >>>>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>>>> >>>>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>>>> >>>>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>>>> >>>>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>>>> >>>>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Robert Naiman >>>>> Policy Director >>>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>>>> >>>>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>>>> >>>>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>>>> >>>>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>>>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>>>> >>>>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>>>> >>>>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>>>> >>>>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>>>> >>>>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>>>> >>>>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>>>> >>>>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>>>> >>>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>>>> >>>>> September 4, 2018 >>>>> >>>>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>>>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>>>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > From cgestabrook at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 22:38:04 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com> <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps discussion would be better than hysteria. It might even lead us to ‘resisting' the wars, rather than Trump. > On Sep 5, 2018, at 5:27 PM, Karen Aram wrote: > >> I was referring to Anne’s statement: >> >> "Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum.” >> >> But it applies to your article as well. > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 15:23, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> Come on. I can’t do it single-handed. >> >> I’m actually a Russian agent, promoting war with Russia (why?) by urging the peace movement to think about the implications of their principles. >> >> Uncomfortable as that may be. >> >> Good liberals respond as is their wont - with censorship. My posts are excluded from the peace [sic] list. >> >> —CGE >> >> >>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 11:03 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>> >>> Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” >> >> >> From today’s News-Gazette: >> >> . >> >> —CGE >> >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: >>>> >>>> Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. >>>> >>>> Quotes do not excuse you. >>>> >>>> Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. >>>> >>>> one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. >>>> it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: >>>> >>>> Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>>> Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) >>>>> >>>>> Midge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Robert Naiman via Peace >>>>> To: Karen Aram >>>>> Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace >>>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? >>>>> >>>>> Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. >>>>> >>>>> Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? >>>>> >>>>> Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? >>>>> >>>>> Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Robert Naiman >>>>> Policy Director >>>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org >>>>> (202) 448-2898 x1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: >>>>> I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) >>>>> >>>>> = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: >>>>> >>>>> What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. >>>>> >>>>> It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." >>>>> >>>>> It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu >>>>> Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. >>>>> >>>>> “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' >>>>> >>>>> "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... >>>>> >>>>> "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. >>>>> >>>>> "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' >>>>> >>>>> "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" >>>>> >>>>> See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." >>>>> >>>>> For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: >>>>> Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 >>>>> >>>>> September 4, 2018 >>>>> >>>>> Institute for Public Accuracy >>>>> 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 >>>>> (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org >>>>> Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace-discuss mailing list >>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > From ewj at pigs.ag Thu Sep 6 02:03:01 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:03:01 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com><1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1536199373565.vjl0ximgysorjdr0wyt2zq4p@android.mail.163.com> Genocide is a quite strong expression of racism, in my opinion. Many in the upper levels of society have stated publicly and also privately to me personally that abortion is permitted and encouraged in your Kafkaesque Amerika for the express purpose of exterminating a portion of the black population. Not exactly ethnic cleansing but more like "a lick and a promise" as my grandma used to say. (That's a lick with a rod followed by threats, not something salacious...it means a cursory cleaning of the house). Even without those crystal-clear statements of the genocidal purpose of abortion there is sufficient evidence for the diagnosis of a eugenic agenda at work. the abortion rate among the black population is more than thrice that among whites. Behold that which Sir Francis Festering Boil is championing as women's rights. Lipstick don't do that pig no good A-tall. So...it is racist to use the N-word but not racist to systematically exterminate blacks by infanticidal technique? How hypocritical can you get? Do you really consider those black children anything more than n.b.? y'all want some? they're lickrish. they're good. you don' like lickrish? then you don' know whats goood... On 2018-09-05 23:16 , Anne Parkinson Wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil.  i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate.  but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven.  Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Thu Sep 6 02:03:01 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:03:01 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <165a5a23a5c-1ebb-116c7@webjas-vae042.srv.aolmail.net> <1536103392070.fied0x1tjyozurb5ak5si3gf@android.mail.163.com><1426663028.1770867.1536160564219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1536199373565.vjl0ximgysorjdr0wyt2zq4p@android.mail.163.com> Genocide is a quite strong expression of racism, in my opinion. Many in the upper levels of society have stated publicly and also privately to me personally that abortion is permitted and encouraged in your Kafkaesque Amerika for the express purpose of exterminating a portion of the black population. Not exactly ethnic cleansing but more like "a lick and a promise" as my grandma used to say. (That's a lick with a rod followed by threats, not something salacious...it means a cursory cleaning of the house). Even without those crystal-clear statements of the genocidal purpose of abortion there is sufficient evidence for the diagnosis of a eugenic agenda at work. the abortion rate among the black population is more than thrice that among whites. Behold that which Sir Francis Festering Boil is championing as women's rights. Lipstick don't do that pig no good A-tall. So...it is racist to use the N-word but not racist to systematically exterminate blacks by infanticidal technique? How hypocritical can you get? Do you really consider those black children anything more than n.b.? y'all want some? they're lickrish. they're good. you don' like lickrish? then you don' know whats goood... On 2018-09-05 23:16 , Anne Parkinson Wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil.  i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate.  but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent.  That point has been well proven.  Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)?  (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax?  Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero.  Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense?  Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties?  Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it?  Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC)  = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here.  ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Thu Sep 6 04:08:25 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 12:08:25 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <270ff7c9-45a6-01a4-d24b-e9f6fb328fba@pigs.ag> Please call him a S.o.B. for me while you are at it. Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: > Our demonstration will begin 10:30 am, as close to Foellinger as we > can get. Meeting at the South door of the Student Union, facing the > Quad, at about  9:40am. > > >> On Sep 5, 2018, at 09:42, David Green > > wrote: >> >> X-PRESIDENT'S Ul VISIT >> 944 students win lottery to see Obama >> 22,000 signed up for chance at Huff Hall seat for speech >> >> By JULIE WURTH jwurth at news-gazette.com >> >> URBANA — Almost 950 students at the University of Illinois won the >> Obama lottery Tuesday night. >> >> UI officials notified 944 students, including 756 at the Urbana >> campus, that they had been selected to attend Friday’s speech by >> former President Barack Obama, who will visit the UI to receive an >> ethicsin- government award. Another 141 are from the UI Chicago, and >> 47 are from the UI Springfield. >> >> A viewing party has also been scheduled at Huff Hall for Friday >> morning’s speech, with room for about 4,000 students. >> >> More than 22,000 students at the Urbana campus alone had thrown in >> their names for a coveted seat at Foellinger Auditorium, which >> normally has a capacity of about 1,300. >> >> UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said some seats have to be removed to >> accommodate television cameras, and the bulk of the remaining seats >> will go to members of the media. Others are reserved for >> administrators from each campus and dignitaries, she said. >> >> Students were notified about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. >> >> Kaler said tickets were given out to a randomized list of students >> who had entered the lottery, the same way that lotteries for concerts >> and other popular events are handled. >> >> Obama is being honored the Paul H. Douglas Ethics in Government Award >> from >> >> the UI’s Institute of Government and Public Affairs, a university- >> system-level unit. He will be honored at a private ceremony following >> his 11 a.m. speech at Foellinger. >> >> The former president opted to come to the Urbana campus to receive >> the award, rather than Chicago or Washington, D.C., where he now >> lives. A spokeswoman said last week he liked the idea of going >> downstate to meet with students and to illustrate the need for >> Democrats to reach out to all kinds of voters, not just those in >> major urban areas. >> >> Some students who were not selected in the lottery expressed their >> disappointment on Reddit and Twitter. >> >> “Finding out President Obama is coming to campus only to not win a >> ticket is the ultimate emotional roller coaster,” wrote Connor Durm. >> >> The UI ticket notice, posted by one user on Reddit, urged those who >> did not receive tickets to tune in to the livestream of the broadcast >> at go.illinois.edu/live or attend the viewing party at Huff Hall >> Gymnasium, 1206 S. Fourth St., C. >> >> Doors to Huff will open at 9 a.m. Space is limited, and there will be >> no admittance after 10:30 a.m., according to the notice. Students >> also must show a university ID to get in and won’t be able to bring >> backpacks, bags, signs, megaphones, food, drinks or umbrellas inside, >> or “any other items that university police determine pose a risk to >> safety or a disruption of the event.” >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 04:29:50 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 23:29:50 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: British Labour just adopted a definition of anti-Semitism that is anti-Semitic References: <8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961.3ee9067898.20180905120621.65e28fe78d.f9351ea9@mail244.atl271.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: https://mondoweiss.net/2018/09/british-definition-semitism/ From ewj at pigs.ag Thu Sep 6 10:59:12 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:59:12 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: British Labour just adopted a definition of anti-Semitism that is anti-Semitic In-Reply-To: References: <8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961.3ee9067898.20180905120621.65e28fe78d.f9351ea9@mail244.atl271.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: Unfortunately the actual definition referred to was not provided in the article nor its links.  A google search likewise left me rather uninformed about the content of this dubious definition. Finally I gave up and went back to work. I finally formulated my own, though. Anti-semites are people who don't like Jews. Hitler et al were real anti-semites and pretty much set the bar for anti-semitry very high for the rest of us, indeed much too high for most of us. If you don"t much like Jews or their ways, that is not quite enough to be a real anti-semite.  One of the reasons people don't much like Jews is that they are constantly whining about the world being overrun by anti-semites. It ain't gonna happen. Jews may have a reputation for being avaricious and conniving but that is not a uniquely Jewish characteristic at all and therefore has nothing to do with semitry or the lack there of, "asymmetry", if you will. Semites seem to have been the descendants of Shem, whom some attribute but being not only a priest after the order of Melchizedek but actually /Melchizedek himself. /Semites are thus distinguished from Japethites or Hamites. The anti-hamites generally don't go around as such and generally go by other names and shape-shift-y-nesses like the Democrat party. You can hear them mumble about women's rights and the like. Anti-Japethry just doesnt seem to have caught on very well. // C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > https://mondoweiss.net/2018/09/british-definition-semitism/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Thu Sep 6 13:21:15 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:21:15 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> My purpose in forwarding the email from Robert Weissman/Public Citizen was to emphasize there are other objections to Kavanaugh's appointment besides the RvW issue. Defenders on both sides of the issue seem to be focused on just one. (He gave a very good interview yesterday on Democracy Now). Midge -----Original Message----- From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss To: Anne Parkinson Cc: naiman ; peace-discuss ; Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss ; peace Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:03 am Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Thu Sep 6 13:21:15 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:21:15 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> My purpose in forwarding the email from Robert Weissman/Public Citizen was to emphasize there are other objections to Kavanaugh's appointment besides the RvW issue. Defenders on both sides of the issue seem to be focused on just one. (He gave a very good interview yesterday on Democracy Now). Midge -----Original Message----- From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss To: Anne Parkinson Cc: naiman ; peace-discuss ; Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss ; peace Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:03 am Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose an anti-racism forum. Quotes do not excuse you. Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss wrote: it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, racist. one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to the right to kill babies is evil. it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special interest. On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss Wrote: Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. Deb Sent from my iPhone On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace wrote: Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) Midge -----Original Message----- From: Robert Naiman via Peace To: Karen Aram Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the "stakes" are zero. Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention on it? Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote: I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. 18 BC) = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in civilized countries. It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other social supports. —CGE On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the jugular.' "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for women.'" See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 September 4, 2018 Institute for Public Accuracy 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org * ipa at accuracy.org Sent via ActionNetwork.org. To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. ______________________________ _________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 ______________________________ _________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Thu Sep 6 13:38:30 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:38:30 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <165af1b0d6b-1ebf-1938@webjas-vaa009.srv.aolmail.net> The "winners" probably had to buy their lottery tickets to help subsidize his Jackson Park "Library" MO'B -----Original Message----- From: Karen Aram via Peace To: David Green Cc: Francis A Boyle ; Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net) ; peace Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:47 am Subject: Re: [Peace] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary Our demonstration will begin 10:30 am, as close to Foellinger as we can get. Meeting at the South door of the Student Union, facing the Quad, at about 9:40am. On Sep 5, 2018, at 09:42, David Green wrote: X-PRESIDENT'S Ul VISIT 944 students win lottery to see Obama 22,000 signed up for chance at Huff Hall seat for speech By JULIE WURTH jwurth at news-gazette.com URBANA — Almost 950 students at the University of Illinois won the Obama lottery Tuesday night. UI officials notified 944 students, including 756 at the Urbana campus, that they had been selected to attend Friday’s speech by former President Barack Obama, who will visit the UI to receive an ethicsin- government award. Another 141 are from the UI Chicago, and 47 are from the UI Springfield. A viewing party has also been scheduled at Huff Hall for Friday morning’s speech, with room for about 4,000 students. More than 22,000 students at the Urbana campus alone had thrown in their names for a coveted seat at Foellinger Auditorium, which normally has a capacity of about 1,300. UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said some seats have to be removed to accommodate television cameras, and the bulk of the remaining seats will go to members of the media. Others are reserved for administrators from each campus and dignitaries, she said. Students were notified about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. Kaler said tickets were given out to a randomized list of students who had entered the lottery, the same way that lotteries for concerts and other popular events are handled. Obama is being honored the Paul H. Douglas Ethics in Government Award from the UI’s Institute of Government and Public Affairs, a university- system-level unit. He will be honored at a private ceremony following his 11 a.m. speech at Foellinger. The former president opted to come to the Urbana campus to receive the award, rather than Chicago or Washington, D.C., where he now lives. A spokeswoman said last week he liked the idea of going downstate to meet with students and to illustrate the need for Democrats to reach out to all kinds of voters, not just those in major urban areas. Some students who were not selected in the lottery expressed their disappointment on Reddit and Twitter. “Finding out President Obama is coming to campus only to not win a ticket is the ultimate emotional roller coaster,” wrote Connor Durm. The UI ticket notice, posted by one user on Reddit, urged those who did not receive tickets to tune in to the livestream of the broadcast at go.illinois.edu/live or attend the viewing party at Huff Hall Gymnasium, 1206 S. Fourth St., C. Doors to Huff will open at 9 a.m. Space is limited, and there will be no admittance after 10:30 a.m., according to the notice. Students also must show a university ID to get in and won’t be able to bring backpacks, bags, signs, megaphones, food, drinks or umbrellas inside, or “any other items that university police determine pose a risk to safety or a disruption of the event.” _______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fboyle at illinois.edu Thu Sep 6 13:54:42 2018 From: fboyle at illinois.edu (Boyle, Francis A) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 13:54:42 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary In-Reply-To: <165af1b0d6b-1ebf-1938@webjas-vaa009.srv.aolmail.net> References: <165af1b0d6b-1ebf-1938@webjas-vaa009.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Obama’s Taj Mahal with accompanying Tiger Wood’s Championship Golf Course for O to play with. Fab. Francis A. Boyle Law Building 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. Champaign, IL 61820 USA 217-333-7954 (phone) 217-244-1478 (fax) (personal comments only) From: Mildred O'brien Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2018 8:39 AM To: karenaram at hotmail.com; davidgreen50 at gmail.com Cc: Boyle, Francis A ; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; peace at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary The "winners" probably had to buy their lottery tickets to help subsidize his Jackson Park "Library" MO'B -----Original Message----- From: Karen Aram via Peace > To: David Green > Cc: Francis A Boyle >; Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net) >; peace > Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:47 am Subject: Re: [Peace] News-Gazette clarification of Obama itinerary Our demonstration will begin 10:30 am, as close to Foellinger as we can get. Meeting at the South door of the Student Union, facing the Quad, at about 9:40am. On Sep 5, 2018, at 09:42, David Green > wrote: X-PRESIDENT'S Ul VISIT 944 students win lottery to see Obama 22,000 signed up for chance at Huff Hall seat for speech By JULIE WURTH jwurth at news-gazette.com URBANA — Almost 950 students at the University of Illinois won the Obama lottery Tuesday night. UI officials notified 944 students, including 756 at the Urbana campus, that they had been selected to attend Friday’s speech by former President Barack Obama, who will visit the UI to receive an ethicsin- government award. Another 141 are from the UI Chicago, and 47 are from the UI Springfield. A viewing party has also been scheduled at Huff Hall for Friday morning’s speech, with room for about 4,000 students. More than 22,000 students at the Urbana campus alone had thrown in their names for a coveted seat at Foellinger Auditorium, which normally has a capacity of about 1,300. UI spokeswoman Robin Kaler said some seats have to be removed to accommodate television cameras, and the bulk of the remaining seats will go to members of the media. Others are reserved for administrators from each campus and dignitaries, she said. Students were notified about 7:30 p.m. Tuesday. Kaler said tickets were given out to a randomized list of students who had entered the lottery, the same way that lotteries for concerts and other popular events are handled. Obama is being honored the Paul H. Douglas Ethics in Government Award from the UI’s Institute of Government and Public Affairs, a university- system-level unit. He will be honored at a private ceremony following his 11 a.m. speech at Foellinger. The former president opted to come to the Urbana campus to receive the award, rather than Chicago or Washington, D.C., where he now lives. A spokeswoman said last week he liked the idea of going downstate to meet with students and to illustrate the need for Democrats to reach out to all kinds of voters, not just those in major urban areas. Some students who were not selected in the lottery expressed their disappointment on Reddit and Twitter. “Finding out President Obama is coming to campus only to not win a ticket is the ultimate emotional roller coaster,” wrote Connor Durm. The UI ticket notice, posted by one user on Reddit, urged those who did not receive tickets to tune in to the livestream of the broadcast at go.illinois.edu/live or attend the viewing party at Huff Hall Gymnasium, 1206 S. Fourth St., C. Doors to Huff will open at 9 a.m. Space is limited, and there will be no admittance after 10:30 a.m., according to the notice. Students also must show a university ID to get in and won’t be able to bring backpacks, bags, signs, megaphones, food, drinks or umbrellas inside, or “any other items that university police determine pose a risk to safety or a disruption of the event.” _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 14:13:54 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:13:54 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The pro-war political establishment Message-ID: https://www.facebook.com/FoxNews/videos/482056905531231/UzpfSTEyMjgyNTU3NjI6MTAyMTM0MDg0NTMxMDU2MTU/ [Kathleen League] Straight talk from Carlson about the recent anonymous NYT op-ed insider ‘resistance’ piece. As Carlson notes, the NYT op-ed basically puts forth the claim that since Trump’s views on policy differ from those of the permanent Washington establishment, therefore Trump’s presidency is illegitimate. The op-ed breathlessly intones that Trump doesn’t believe Russia is a central threat to the US and he resisted imposing even more crushing sanctions on Russia. The op-ed writer asserts “But thankfully, his national security team knew better. Such actions had to be taken.” Tucker Carlson responds: “Trump ran on closer relations with Russia. Voters agreed with that, so they elected him President. And yet the tiny and incompetent foreign policy establishment, the very same people who brought you Iraq and Libya, do not agree with that. So they subvert his views which are also the views of the American people. And yet this ‘resistance’ is somehow a win for democracy and we should all celebrate. “Trump’s attempts to do what he promised on the campaign trail are not a travesty. Politicians are supposed to respond to voters’ concerns. That is the basic measure of success of a political administration. Did you do what voters sent you to do? In Washington, that’s considered shocking. “The problem is that so many in our political class are disloyal to voters. The very people in charge of administering our democracy don’t believe in democracy. They don’t even hide it. That’s a problem, a big problem.” ### -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Thu Sep 6 14:15:19 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:15:19 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> References: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Yes, all of that is certainly true. In particular, Kavanaugh's public statement that the Nixon case was "wrongly decided" is extremely troubling. According to the New York Times yesterday, "senior Trump Administration officials" are bragging that they are "saving us from Trump" by counter-manding his orders. But these unelected and unnamed officials are unilaterally deciding what to counter-mand and what to enable. This is not democracy or constitutional government. The President - this president or any other- should be constrained according to the Constitution, by the other branches of government, not by unnamed and unelected and unaccountable executive branch officials. But apparently Kavanaugh doesn't believe in that, and that is very, very bad. Kavanaugh apparently believes that this president and any other are above the law as long as they remain in office, and that the only remedy is impeachment. Impeachment is fine but, being extremely difficult, it should not be the only remedy; and under the Constitution as written, it is not the only remedy. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > My purpose in forwarding the email from Robert Weissman/Public Citizen was > to emphasize there are other objections to Kavanaugh's appointment besides > the RvW issue. Defenders on both sides of the issue seem to be focused on > just one. (He gave a very good interview yesterday on Democracy Now). > > Midge > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > To: Anne Parkinson > Cc: naiman ; peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; peace > Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:03 am > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes > areAstronomical" > > Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” > > > On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: > > Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you > out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose > an anti-racism forum. > > Quotes do not excuse you. > > Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger > babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this > carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, > racist. > > one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like > Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to > the right to kill babies is evil. > it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but > saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special > interest. > > > > > > On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss > Wrote: > > Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the > battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for > good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. > Deb > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of > Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) > > Midge > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm > Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are > Astronomical" > > > Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? > > Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is > expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. > Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the > "stakes" are zero. > > Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? > > Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? > > Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention > on it? > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: > > ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. > 18 BC) > > = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of > his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is > only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s > lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in > civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics > program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time > Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly > growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other > social supports. —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] > > > FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu > > Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois > College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are > Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle > Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats > will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under > cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis > Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. > > “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You > need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the > jugular.' > > "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate > Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal > establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a > lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... > > "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are > planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. > > "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to > ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of > saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it > tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' > > "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage > Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme > Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a > legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier > for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make > the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be > bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for > women.'" > > See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." > > For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: > Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 > > September 4, 2018 > > Institute for Public Accuracy > 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 > (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org > > * ipa at accuracy.org > Sent via ActionNetwork.org > . > To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop > receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% > 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= > 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net > https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing > list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/ > mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org Thu Sep 6 14:15:19 2018 From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 09:15:19 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes areAstronomical" In-Reply-To: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> References: <165af0b4485-1ebb-1753@webjas-vac210.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Yes, all of that is certainly true. In particular, Kavanaugh's public statement that the Nixon case was "wrongly decided" is extremely troubling. According to the New York Times yesterday, "senior Trump Administration officials" are bragging that they are "saving us from Trump" by counter-manding his orders. But these unelected and unnamed officials are unilaterally deciding what to counter-mand and what to enable. This is not democracy or constitutional government. The President - this president or any other- should be constrained according to the Constitution, by the other branches of government, not by unnamed and unelected and unaccountable executive branch officials. But apparently Kavanaugh doesn't believe in that, and that is very, very bad. Kavanaugh apparently believes that this president and any other are above the law as long as they remain in office, and that the only remedy is impeachment. Impeachment is fine but, being extremely difficult, it should not be the only remedy; and under the Constitution as written, it is not the only remedy. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (202) 448-2898 x1 On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > My purpose in forwarding the email from Robert Weissman/Public Citizen was > to emphasize there are other objections to Kavanaugh's appointment besides > the RvW issue. Defenders on both sides of the issue seem to be focused on > just one. (He gave a very good interview yesterday on Democracy Now). > > Midge > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss > To: Anne Parkinson > Cc: naiman ; peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; peace > Sent: Wed, Sep 5, 2018 11:03 am > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes > areAstronomical" > > Anne, its called “How to kill the Peace movement.” > > > On Sep 5, 2018, at 08:16, Anne Parkinson wrote: > > Apparently wayne is willing to be as obnoxious as possible. Calling you > out on your use of the n-word, wayne, my boy. Interesting that you choose > an anti-racism forum. > > Quotes do not excuse you. > > Tired of the subject carl and wayne seem to know so much about. > > > On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 6:23 PM, ewj via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > it really is a strange thing that the relentless killing of "nigger > babies" is good and any threat, real or imagined, to slow or halt this > carnage is declared evil, an affront to women's health, and most absurdly, > racist. > > one is not surprised by the rantings of a functional illiterate like > Francis Boil. i am somewhat amused to see women saying that any threat to > the right to kill babies is evil. > it is one thing to be merciful toward those who are unfortunate. but > saying it is evil to oppose the killing of innocents is a very special > interest. > > > > > > On 2018-09-05 01:54 , Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss > Wrote: > > Just because the odds of success are small is no reason not to engage the > battle. It is a cliche, but all that is needed for evil to flourish is for > good people to remain silent. That point has been well proven. > Deb > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Mildred O'brien via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Did you see what Robert Weissman/Public Citizen had to say on the topic of > Scotus (sans Roe v Wade)? (I'll try forwarding it) > > Midge > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Naiman via Peace > To: Karen Aram > Cc: peace-discuss ; Peace > Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2018 12:12 pm > Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Kavanaugh: "Stakes are > Astronomical" > > > Isn't the whole Kavanaugh show a bipartisan hoax? > > Democrats don't have the votes to block Kavanaugh. Every Republican is > expected to vote to confirm. Republicans have the majority in the Senate. > Therefore, the ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion. Therefore, the > "stakes" are zero. > > Why the Kabuki? Why the pretense? > > Isn't it just a fundraising and mobilization exercise for both parties? > > Why should we, people who care about issues, waste any time or attention > on it? > > > > Robert Naiman > Policy Director > Just Foreign Policy > www.justforeignpolicy.org > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org > (202) 448-2898 x1 > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > I think the statement by Horace and Homer, applies to you. > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:55, C G Estabrook wrote: > > ...indignor quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus. --Horace in Ars Poetica (c. > 18 BC) > > = even Homer nods (i.e., even a great person makes mistakes). —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:44 AM, Karen Aram wrote: > > What does Chomsky have to say about this issue? If you are a devotee of > his, then you should be noting what he has to say on this topic, which is > only one of the concerns over a right wing ideologue like Kavanaugh. > > https://www.dailymotion.com/ video/x2nzfiw > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=6fBjaPPzu1I > > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 08:12, C G Estabrook wrote: > > Roe encourages the poor - and all women - to end their unborn children’s > lives, instead of demanding free healthcare, child supports, etc. as in > civilized countries. > > It was meant to save the rich money by what is essentially a eugenics > program. SC Justice R. B. Ginsburg: "Frankly I had thought that at the time > Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly > growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of." > > It should be overturned and Medicare for all enacted, along with other > social supports. —CGE > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > Kavanaugh: "Stakes are Astronomical" -- Interviews Available [on Twitter] > > > FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle at illinois.edu > > Boyle is professor of international law at the University of Illinois > College of Law. He is quoted in a Guardian overview "'The Stakes are > Astronomical': Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing Will be a Battle > Royale," which states: “'The only hope the country has is that Democrats > will treat Kavanaugh like a hostile witness on the witness stand under > cross-examination, throw him off script and break him down,' said Francis > Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois. > > “'You do not need a gentleman or gentlewoman to deal with Kavanaugh. You > need a district attorney. Some Democrats are going to have to go for the > jugular.' > > "But Kavanaugh, 53, is no Daniel in the lions’ den. He is the ultimate > Washington insider, steeped in the city’s political and legal > establishments. His father spent more than two decades in the city as a > lobbyist for the cosmetics industry. ... > > "The groups Women’s March and Center for Popular Democracy Action are > planning a day of action in Washington on Tuesday. > > "Boyle ... shares these concerns. 'I think Kavanaugh was put on there to > ensure Roe is overturned,' he said. 'He has used the Roberts dodge of > saying it is settled law. So what? The Supreme Court can unsettle it > tomorrow. He did not say it was decided correctly.' > > "Critics note that Trump has relied heavily on the rightwing Heritage > Foundation and Federalist Society to develop his shortlist for Supreme > Court nominations. Boyle said: 'Kavanaugh is an extreme ideologue and a > legal hatchet man for the Federalist Society. He was their spear carrier > for years. He is being put on there by Trump to do their business and make > the court as far right as he can under the circumstances. It’s going to be > bad for a lot of people: for gays, for African Americans, for labour, for > women.'" > > See IPA news release: "Kavanaugh and the Federalist Society." > > For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy: > Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020 > > September 4, 2018 > > Institute for Public Accuracy > 980 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045 > (202) 347-0020 * accuracy.org > > * ipa at accuracy.org > Sent via ActionNetwork.org > . > To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop > receiving emails from Institute for Public Accuracy, please click here. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://eur04.safelinks. protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.chambana. net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo% > 2Fpeace&data=02%7C01%7C% 7C4a614881f1df45ee383908d61278 de3f% > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa aaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C636716707659411731& sdata= > 2cnTv94o9CPCZlyjIkEsc0PfuO33Iq bSLo71AwziVqw%3D&reserved= 0 > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana. net > https://lists.chambana.net/ mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing > list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/ > mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Thu Sep 6 15:59:38 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (Anne Parkinson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 15:59:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] APOLOGY for last long post References: <1865924200.545714.1536249578970.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1865924200.545714.1536249578970@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all.  I apologize for my last long post in the Kavanaugh thread, with book reviews and all! That was a draft that I had intended to drastically edit and send to Carl after I had slept on it and decided to calm down.  Anne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 21:07:55 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 16:07:55 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Peace & Life: Kavanaugh Hearings/Male Bodies? References: Message-ID: <1006FB2A-25F5-4A3D-A0D9-A54DE76CE4A2@gmail.com> > > > > Kavanaugh Hearings – Our Issues > > U.S. Senate hearings for Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh started this week. Events of recent decades show the Supreme Court can have a profound impact on our issues. > As of this writing, euthanasia (assisted suicide) came up only in a discussion of the Glucksberg case – its “test,” not its anti-euthanasia holding. On the death penalty, Kavanaugh mentioned how a couple of Justices opposed it, but only as an illustration of justices continuing to not accept precedent on principle, with no indication of what Kavanaugh himself thinks. > Racism came up frequently, and Kavanaugh was eloquent and knowledgeable in his denunciation of it. War was discussed as a question of separation of powers, and he also denied having anything to do with the “enhanced interrogation” torture program the Bush administration had while he was working for it (though he didn’t denounce it). > The big issue was abortion, which was visited constantly in the questioning. Those who regard a possible overturning of Roe v. Wade with alarm are quite sure he’d overturn Roe. Yet in the hearings he followed the normal nominee’s route of refusing to state a position. > The evidence we have suggests that he might vote to overturn Roe should a case arise (and there are cases already in the pipeline). He might only allow for some laws protecting against abortion while leaving the core of Roe intact. Or he might be another Anthony Kennedy (for whom he clerked, and whom he named as a Justice he especially admired) and we may be stuck with the extreme holdings of Roe for a while more. We need to be prepared for all three contingencies. > > ^^^^^^^ > > Male Bodies? > > In the hearings, Senator Kamala Harris questioned Brett Kavanaugh about whether there were laws limiting male bodies, much to his puzzlement. Harris’s question comes from a rigid “pro-choice” view that sees abortion bans as nothing other than an imposition on female bodies. > But the only reasonable justification for a legal ban of abortion is that it’s killing a human being. And for almost all of the pro-life movement, the proposed laws target those individuals who are actually doing the killing; there are solid reasons for this . > While in theory there’s no gender consideration for who performs abortions, in the U.S. we can document that doctors who have abortion as a major part of their practice are mostly men. In the early years after Roe, it was the vast majority, but an influx of women into the field has decreased the proportion of male abortionists to about two-thirds (count them up on this list ). By contrast, about a half of ob-gyns are men. > > ^^^^^^^ > > Latest CLN Blog Post > > Informal face-to-face dialogues are a major way of spreading the consistent life ethic – and sometimes they happen to us in the normal course of living and can’t be helped. Rachel MacNair offers some Tips for Dialogue from her own experience, and invites others to share tips as well. > > ^^^^^^^ > > Quotation of the Week > Aaron Wilson > The pro-choice language pro-lifers need to drop > Baptist Press, Southern Baptist Convention > > Of course, even the most precise pro-life terminology means little if not accompanied by pro-life action administered in love. > Christians must be willing to back up life-honoring words with deeds that extend love to those who are wrestling with decisions that affect life. > And the church must show it values all of life, in all circumstances, to demonstrate a consistent ethic to a watching world. > > > > > issue #427 09.07.18 > Consistent Life Web Page > Consistent Life Blog > List of All Blog Posts > Join or Donate > Previous Issues > Subjects Index > Quotations Topic Index > Flyers & Brochures to Download and Print > Buttons, Stickers, T-shirts, and Other Products > Recommended Books > > Click to view this email in a browser > > If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe > Click here to forward this email to a friend > > Consistent Life > P.O. Box 9295 > Silver Spring, MD 20916-9295 > US > Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 13:59:39 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 08:59:39 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Obama's UIUC speech Message-ID: In a speech Friday at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, former President Barack Obama publicly joined the escalating offensive against President Trump being mounted by sections of the ruling class and the state. The speech, directed at channeling both popular and ruling class opposition to the Trump administration behind the Democrats in the fall midterm elections, marked Obama’s first direct attack on his successor. Obama’s speech came as the culmination of a series of extraordinary events over the past two weeks that have brought the acute political crisis in the US to a new and explosive level of intensity. First came the week-long spectacle of bipartisan hypocrisy and political reaction occasioned by the death of Republican Senator John McCain, one of the most ferocious war-mongers in the US political establishment. Democrats sought to outdo the Republicans in eulogizing McCain as an “American hero” and model statesman. Within two days of McCain’s burial, the media was ablaze with revelations from the forthcoming book on the Trump White House by Washington Posteditor Bob Woodward. Woodward, citing anonymous interviews with high-ranking Trump officials, paints a picture of turmoil and dysfunction in which figures such as Defense Secretary James Mattis and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly call Trump an idiot. Woodward recounts incidents of Trump administration officials countermanding orders from the president, a situation Woodward characterizes as an “administrative coup d’état.” This was followed by the New York Times’ publication of an op-ed piece by an anonymous “senior official” in the Trump administration describing the activities of an internal “resistance” to Trump within the White House. The piece cited discussions among Trump aides about seeking his removal on the grounds of mental incompetence, as stipulated in the 25th Amendment to the US Constitution. It made clear that the “resistance,” promoted by the Timesand the Democrats, supports Trump’s tax cuts for the rich, removal of corporate regulations and increase in military spending. It attacks Trump for his “softness” toward Russia and North Korea and his overall impulsiveness, unpredictability and recklessness. Obama’s speech was along similar lines. He presented an absurdly potted history of American progress on the basis of the “free market,” with, he acknowledged, some imperfections—such as the wars in Vietnam and Iraq (which killed millions of people). His administration was supposedly part of this march of progress. He cited as evidence of his own progressive record the extra-judicial murder of Osama bin-Laden and his engineering of the “recovery” from the 2008 financial crisis. He reiterated his theme of 2016 that “things were great” in America by the time he left office. “And by the time I left office, household income was near its all-time high, and the uninsured rate hit an all-time low, poverty rates were falling. I mention this just so when you hear how great the economy is doing right now, let’s just remember when this recovery started.” Obama made no attempt explain why, despite his tireless efforts on behalf of ordinary Americans, the Democratic Party lost control of both houses of Congress during his administration and disgust with the Democratic Party was so intense that the billionaire conman and semi-fascist Trump was able to pose as a friend of working people and win the 2016 election. The reality, of course, is that Obama presided over the funneling of trillions of dollars to Wall Street to rescue the financial oligarchy, carrying out the greatest redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top in history. This was paid for by wage cuts and the destruction of decent-paying jobs, replaced by poverty-wage, part-time and temporary employment, the gutting of health benefits for millions of workers under “Obamacare,” pension cuts, the closure of thousands of public schools and layoff of tens of thousands of teachers, and a general lowering of the living standards of the working class. Trump’s attacks on democratic rights were prepared by Obama’s brutal policy of deportations, his continuation of indefinite detention and the Guantanamo torture camp, his support for mass domestic spying and his program of drone assassinations, including of US citizens. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were continued and new wars were launched in Libya and Syria. According to Obama, however, Trump was a radical departure from this wave of “progress,” a “symptom” of the “politics of fear and resentment.” It was the “powerful and privileged” pushing back. Obama criticized Trump for “cutting taxes on the wealthy, unwinding regulations and shrinking the safety net,” focusing however on the swelling of the deficit. He did not try to reconcile this account with his own reaction to the 2016 elections, which he called an “intramural scrimmage” between two sides of the “same team.” Obama saved his most biting criticism for Trump’s supposed softness toward Russia, appealing in the process to the tradition of cold war anti-communism. “They’re undermining our alliances,” he declared, “cozying up to Russia. What happened to the Republican Party? Its central organizing principle in foreign policy was the fight against communism, and now they’re cozying up to the former head of the KBG.” Alluding to the concocted narrative of “Russian meddling” in US elections, Obama denounced Trump and congressional Republicans for “actively blocking legislation that would defend our elections from Russian attack.” The central focus of Obama’s speech was an appeal to disaffected Republicans and conservatives to vote for the Democratic Party in the fall. He went out of his way to denounce Trump for attacking the Justice Department, which is spearheading the witch hunt against immigrants, and the FBI. He declared: “But I am here to tell you that even if you don’t agree with me or Democrats on policy, even if you believe in more libertarian economic theories, even if you are an evangelical and our position of certain social issues is a bridge too far, even if you think my assessment of immigration is mistaken and the Democrats aren’t serious enough about immigration enforcement, I’m here to tell you that you should still be concerned with our current course and should still want to see a restoration of honesty and decency and lawfulness in our government. It should not be Democratic or Republican.” In making this right-wing appeal, Obama took a swipe at the Sanders wing of the Democratic Party. “I’ll be honest,” he said, “sometimes I get into arguments with progressive friends about what the current political moment requires. There are well-meaning folks passionate about social justice who think things have gotten so bad, the lines have been so starkly drawn, that we have to fight fire with fire… I don’t agree with that.” These events have underscored two basic facts: there is absolutely nothing progressive or democratic in either of the warring camps, and the methods being employed by Trump’s ruling class opponents, spearheaded by the Democratic Party, are themselves deeply undemocratic. They are the methods of a palace coup. In so far as the resolution of the political crisis gripping the US capitalist class is left in the hands of the warring factions within the ruling elite and its state apparatus, the outcome will be a further turn to the right, intensified attacks on democratic rights—the Democrats are already spearheading the drive for internet censorship—more brutal austerity and an escalation of war internationally... --Barry Grey > 8 September 2018 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sat Sep 8 19:18:49 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 03:18:49 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Obama's UIUC speech In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Os-kee Wow-Wow, Illinois. ... the yell that always thrills me And fills my heart with joy Is the good old Oskee wow-wow That they yell at Illinois... C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: > In a speech Friday at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, > former President Barack Obama publicly joined the escalating offensive > against President Trump being mounted by sections of the ruling class > and the state. The speech, directed at channeling both popular > and ruling class opposition to the Trump administration behind the > Democrats in the fall midterm elections, marked Obama’s first direct > attack on his successor. > > Obama’s speech came as the culmination of a series of extraordinary > events over the past two weeks that have brought the acute political > crisis in the US to a new and explosive level of intensity. > > First came the week-long spectacle of bipartisan hypocrisy and > political reaction occasioned by the death of Republican Senator John > McCain, one of the most ferocious war-mongers in the US > political establishment. Democrats sought to outdo the Republicans in > eulogizing McCain as an “American hero” and model statesman. > > Within two days of McCain’s burial, the media was ablaze with > revelations from the forthcoming book on the Trump White House > by Washington Posteditor Bob Woodward. Woodward, citing > anonymous interviews with high-ranking Trump officials, paints a > picture of turmoil and dysfunction in which figures such as Defense > Secretary James Mattis and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly call > Trump an idiot. Woodward recounts incidents of Trump administration > officials countermanding orders from the president, a > situation Woodward characterizes as an “administrative coup d’état.” > This was followed by the New York Times’ publication of an op-ed piece > by an anonymous “senior official” in the Trump administration > describing the activities of an internal “resistance” to Trump within > the White House. The piece cited discussions among Trump aides about > seeking his removal on the grounds of mental incompetence, as > stipulated in the 25th Amendment to the US Constitution. It made clear > that the “resistance,” promoted by the Timesand the Democrats, > supports Trump’s tax cuts for the rich, removal of > corporate regulations and increase in military spending. It attacks > Trump for his “softness” toward Russia and North Korea and his overall > impulsiveness, unpredictability and recklessness. > Obama’s speech was along similar lines. He presented an absurdly > potted history of American progress on the basis of the “free market,” > with, he acknowledged, some imperfections—such as the wars in > Vietnam and Iraq (which killed millions of people). His administration > was supposedly part of this march of progress. > > He cited as evidence of his own progressive record the extra-judicial > murder of Osama bin-Laden and his engineering of the “recovery” from > the 2008 financial crisis. He reiterated his theme of 2016 that > “things were great” in America by the time he left office. > > “And by the time I left office, household income was near its all-time > high, and the uninsured rate hit an all-time low, poverty rates were > falling. I mention this just so when you hear how great the economy > is doing right now, let’s just remember when this recovery started.” > > Obama made no attempt explain why, despite his tireless efforts on > behalf of ordinary Americans, the Democratic Party lost control of > both houses of Congress during his administration and disgust with the > Democratic Party was so intense that the billionaire conman and > semi-fascist Trump was able to pose as a friend of working people and > win the 2016 election. > > The reality, of course, is that Obama presided over the funneling of > trillions of dollars to Wall Street to rescue the financial oligarchy, > carrying out the greatest redistribution of wealth from the bottom > to the top in history. This was paid for by wage cuts and the > destruction of decent-paying jobs, replaced by poverty-wage, > part-time and temporary employment, the gutting of health benefits for > millions of workers under “Obamacare,” pension cuts, the closure > of thousands of public schools and layoff of tens of thousands of > teachers, and a general lowering of the living standards of the > working class. > > Trump’s attacks on democratic rights were prepared by Obama’s brutal > policy of deportations, his continuation of indefinite detention and > the Guantanamo torture camp, his support for mass domestic spying and > his program of drone assassinations, including of US citizens. The > wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were continued and new wars were launched > in Libya and Syria. > > According to Obama, however, Trump was a radical departure from this > wave of “progress,” a “symptom” of the “politics of fear and > resentment.” It was the “powerful and privileged” pushing back. > Obama criticized Trump for “cutting taxes on the wealthy, unwinding > regulations and shrinking the safety net,” focusing however on the > swelling of the deficit. > > He did not try to reconcile this account with his own reaction to the > 2016 elections, which he called an “intramural scrimmage” between two > sides of the “same team.” > > Obama saved his most biting criticism for Trump’s supposed softness > toward Russia, appealing in the process to the tradition of cold war > anti-communism. > > “They’re undermining our alliances,” he declared, “cozying up to > Russia. What happened to the Republican Party? Its central organizing > principle in foreign policy was the fight against communism, and > now they’re cozying up to the former head of the KBG.” > > Alluding to the concocted narrative of “Russian meddling” in US > elections, Obama denounced Trump and congressional Republicans for > “actively blocking legislation that would defend our elections > from Russian attack.” > > The central focus of Obama’s speech was an appeal to disaffected > Republicans and conservatives to vote for the Democratic Party in the > fall. He went out of his way to denounce Trump for attacking the > Justice Department, which is spearheading the witch hunt against > immigrants, and the FBI. > > He declared: “But I am here to tell you that even if you don’t agree > with me or Democrats on policy, even if you believe in more > libertarian economic theories, even if you are an evangelical and our > position of certain social issues is a bridge too far, even if you > think my assessment of immigration is mistaken and the Democrats > aren’t serious enough about immigration enforcement, I’m here to tell > you that you should still be concerned with our current course > and should still want to see a restoration of honesty and decency and > lawfulness in our government. It should not be Democratic or Republican.” > > In making this right-wing appeal, Obama took a swipe at the Sanders > wing of the Democratic Party. “I’ll be honest,” he said, “sometimes I > get into arguments with progressive friends about what the > current political moment requires. There are well-meaning folks > passionate about social justice who think things have gotten so > bad, the lines have been so starkly drawn, that we have to fight fire > with fire… I don’t agree with that.” > These events have underscored two basic facts: there is absolutely > nothing progressive or democratic in either of the warring camps, and > the methods being employed by Trump’s ruling class > opponents, spearheaded by the Democratic Party, are themselves deeply > undemocratic. They are the methods of a palace coup. > > In so far as the resolution of the political crisis gripping the US > capitalist class is left in the hands of the warring factions > within the ruling elite and its state apparatus, the outcome will be a > further turn to the right, intensified attacks on democratic > rights—the Democrats are already spearheading the drive for internet > censorship—more brutal austerity and an escalation of > war internationally... > > --Barry Grey > 8 September 2018 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sat Sep 8 23:43:31 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 18:43:31 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Obama at the U of I Friday Message-ID: <008801d447cd$c2034910$4609db30$@comcast.net> Nick Goodell Obama's appearance at the University of Illinois Urbana- Champaign on Friday Sept. 7th. Obama yesterday: " We need to challenge the status quo and the people in power! " After Speech: *Gets coffee with and endorses multi billionaire hotel magnate gubernatorial candidate J.D. Pritzger who spent more in dem primary than Trump did in entire 2016 election. David Johnson shared a post. 2 mins . Yes, as usual Obama ( and ALL corporate Democrats ) talk out of both sides of their mouth. Obama said that and then appealed to Republican voters to vote for Democrats in November because the Democrats " share their libertarian values " and in the next breath stated that the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic party were " misguided ". Obama's ultimate in hypocrisy Friday was his stated support for single payer Medicare for All. Well Mr. Obama, you had your chance to enact and fight for single payer in 2009 and 2010 when the Democrats controlled all three branches of government. But instead, you pushed for and implemented a right wing regressive tax payer subsidized corporate controlled healthcare plan ( Romney / Obama care ). That FINED poor and working class people who were unable to afford an inferior overpriced corporate product. See Matt Taibbi's Rolling Stone magazine article from 2009 ( " Sick and Broken " ) that documents very well Obama and the Democrats ( except Dennis Kucinich ) effort to PREVENT not just single payer but even a lame ass option of a " public option ". Talk is cheap Mr. Obama and you are the epitome of hypocrisy and deception. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:09:53 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 14:09:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Conclusion of lrb review of Netanyahu bio Message-ID: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n16/adam-shatz/the-sea-is-the-same-sea ‘We’re just like you,’ Sara Netanyahu told Trump. ‘The media hate us but the people love us.’ She is half-right: her husband remains popular among Israeli Jews. But Trump’s ‘people’ include very few American Jews, and Israel’s alliance with him has sharpened the divide between American Jews and the Jewish state. Most American Jews, even some liberals, were willing to ignore, or rationalise, Israel’s human rights violations against Palestinians. But they are not willing to countenance the war against immigrants, the Muslim ban or the erosion of American democracy. The convergence of Trump’s authoritarian populism and Netanyahu’s settler-Zionism has further exposed the contradictions between their liberal convictions and contemporary Israel. The result has been a re-energised, and increasingly radical, American Jewish left. Bernie Sanders has spoken out eloquently against Israel’s killings in Gaza, sparing his audiences the platitudes about Israel’s security, and the movement for boycott, divestment and sanctions is being led, in part, by Jewish Voices for Peace. Some Jewish Democrats remain devout supporters of Israel, but they are increasingly embattled, and support for Israel among young American Jews is declining. Netanyahu is not concerned. As Dermer recently explained to the *New York Times*, Evangelical Christians, who make up ‘a solid quarter of the population, and are maybe ten, fifteen, twenty times the Jewish population’, now constitute the ‘backbone’ of US support for Israel. Their ideas about the Jews are not exactly tender. Reverend Robert Jeffress, who delivered the first prayer at the opening of the embassy in Jerusalem, says that ‘you can’t be saved by being a Jew.’ Reverend John C. Hagee, the televangelist who gave the closing benediction, has described the Holocaust as God’s way of getting Jews ‘to come back to the land of Israel’. Netanyahu has yet to pronounce on this theory of the Holocaust, but he has expressed the view that American Jews are destined to assimilate and disappear, like the Spanish *conversos* his father disdained. Backed by Trump and Evangelical Zionists, Netanyahu’s Israel doesn’t need the Jews, at least not the politically unreliable ones in the diaspora. Where all this is headed remains unclear. Netanyahu, for the moment, seems exuberant, emboldened by his ties to Trump, the expansion of trade with Asia, and the complicity of the Sunni Arab regimes. Israel’s strategic position has never been stronger, or its neighbours weaker. But the scenes of unarmed protesters killed by Israeli snipers in Gaza are a reminder of the discontent that lies beneath the surface. Under Netanyahu, Israel has run up a substantial bill in blood and tears. Unlike his wife’s credit card, it will eventually have to be paid. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 20:54:08 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C. G. Estabrook ) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 15:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Daily Headlines for 09/09/2018 References: <3a63c9fc90debaab0b552af47.d513e2ab3c.20180909160435.b4e0611243.a610ab38@mail118.suw131.mcsv.net> Message-ID: <5DDC1699-ACE5-4C93-8E42-EAFEFB768973@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: The Duran > Date: September 9, 2018 at 11:05:20 AM CDT > To: > Subject: Daily Headlines for 09/09/2018 > Reply-To: The Duran > > > > Today's headlines: > YouTube Shuts Down All Syrian State Channels As Idlib Assault Begins > By Tyler Durden on Sep 09, 2018 05:40 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > With Battle For Idlib Imminent, Russia Releases Video Of Massive “One Of A Kind” Military Drills In Syria > By Tyler Durden on Sep 09, 2018 05:15 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > Prosecutors admit false witness against Russian Maria Butina, jailed in US > By Seraphim Hanisch on Sep 09, 2018 05:01 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > Donald Trump Comes Out in Support of Islamic Terrorists > By Eric Zuesse on Sep 09, 2018 05:00 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > NYT Answers 9 Questions About Anonymous Op-Ed After Trump Demands DOJ Investigation > By Tyler Durden on Sep 09, 2018 04:56 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > Pat Buchanan: Regime Change – American Style > By Patrick J. Buchanan on Sep 09, 2018 04:40 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > The ballet “The Crystal Palace” comes to Russia, with music of Alexei Shor > By Seraphim Hanisch on Sep 08, 2018 08:56 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > Trump does a 180 on Syria. War is on the horizon (Video) > By Alex Christoforou on Sep 08, 2018 07:44 pm > > Read more » > ____________________________ > > > Recent Articles: > > The complicated and dangerous geopolitics of Kosovo > “Steady” State slow moving coup against Trump (Video) > The untold truth about Obama’s former CIA director, John Brennan > Gatwick Airport timestamp cover up, or much ado about nothing? (Video) > Twitter buckles to elitist madness, BANS Alex Jones and InfoWars > Now get FREE international shipping at The Duran Shop > All purchases directly support The Duran! > DONATE 💰 > > > > > Share > Tweet > Forward > Share > Copyright © 2018 DRN Media, PLC, All rights reserved. > World news and smart analysis on everything you need to know. > > Our mailing address is: > DRN Media, PLC > Kreontos 12 > Nicosia 2571 > Cyprus > > Add us to your address book > > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 01:32:47 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 20:32:47 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] AWARE meeting minutes 9/9/18 Message-ID: AWARE MEETING, SUNDAY 9 SEPTEMBER, 5-6PM Hammerhead Coffee [1.] The best account of Obama’s speech in Foellinger last Friday seems to be : “In a speech Friday at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, former President Barack Obama publicly joined the escalating offensive against President Trump being mounted by sections of the ruling class and the state. The speech, directed at channeling both popular and ruling class opposition to the Trump administration behind the Democrats in the fall midterm elections, marked Obama’s first direct attack on his successor... “In so far as the resolution of the political crisis gripping the US capitalist class is left in the hands of the warring factions within the ruling elite and its state apparatus, the outcome will be a further turn to the right, intensified attacks on democratic rights—the Democrats are already spearheading the drive for internet censorship—more brutal austerity and an escalation of war internationally...” (It seems to me that Obama - against his intentions - presents a clear argument for why the pro-war ’Russiagate’ Democrat party shouldn’t be given control of Congress in the upcoming election. Even if that means voting against the Democratic candidate and for the feckless Republican incumbent, Rodney Davis, here in C-U - Illinois’ 13th Congressional district.) Karen Aram is apparently arranging a recording of the demonstration she organized to be aired on Urbana Public TV (and YouTube). See Karen's account of the demonstration below; more information to come. [2.] FOA [Friend of AWARE] Helen Estabrook is the producer of the film “The Front Runner,” which debuted at the Telluride and Toronto film festivals this week; it should be in theaters the first week of November. “The film chronicles the rise of American Senator Gary Hart, a Democratic presidential candidate in 1988, and his subsequent fall from grace when media reports surfaced of his extramarital affair. It stars an ensemble cast featuring Hugh Jackman as Hart, with Vera Farmiga, J. K. Simmons and Alfred Molina also starring ... [It is] directed by Jason Reitman, based on the 2014 book ‘All the Truth Is Out: The Week Politics Went Tabloid,’ written by Matt Bai. Reitman co-wrote the screenplay with Bai and Jay Carson.” [Wikipedia] “In order to adapt the story for the silver screen, [Bai] teamed up with Jay Carson, who was press secretary for former secretary of state Hillary Clinton during her failed 2008 presidential bid. Although the script was written before the 2016 election, when Trump was accused of paying hush money to two women with whom he allegedly had affairs -- porn actress Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal -- Carson insists, ‘It's a way to speak to what we're going through today.’ “‘It's a way to engage with the questions that we're asking ourselves today without the divisiveness of having to be talking about something that's happening right now,’ echoed producer Helen Estabrook.” [France 24] [3.] AWARE should have a table (and distribute flyers) at the Farmers’ Market next Saturday, September 15. [4.] It’s the eve of Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, literally the “head of the year.” It is the first of the Jewish High Holy Days (יָמִים נוֹרָאִים Yamim Nora'im, "Days of Awe") specified by Leviticus 23:23ff. Shanah Tovah - happy new year - to all. See David Green’s posting to the peace-discuss lists of an LRB review of a Netanyahu bio . [PS - our meeting place, Hammerhead Coffee (University & Wright, Champaign), under new management, is now serving excellent panini, etc. This is an unsolicited but personally researched testimonial.] --CGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 16:43:30 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:43:30 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Cockburn on Basra Message-ID: The causes of the protests are self-evident: Iraq is ruled by a kleptomaniac political class that operates the Iraqi state apparatus as a looting machine. Other countries are corrupt, notably those rich in oil or other natural resources, and the politically well connected become hugely wealthy. However big the rake-off, something is usually built at the end of the day. In Iraq it does not happen that way, and among the angriest victims of 15 years of wholesale theft are the two million inhabitants of Basra. Once glorified as the Venice of the Gulf, its canals have turned into open sewers and its water supplies are so polluted as to be actually poisonous. Protests erupted earlier this year because of the lack of electricity, water, jobs and every other government service. The injustice was all the more flagrant because the oil companies around Basra are exporting more crude than ever before. In August this totalled four million barrels a day, earning the government in Baghdad some $7.7bn over the course of the month. Few things epitomise the failure of the Iraqi state so starkly as the fact that, despite its vast oil wealth, Basra is now threatened by a cholera outbreak, according to local health officials. Basra hospitals have already treated 17,500 people for chronic diarrhoea and stomach ailments over the past two weeks, after they became ill from drinking polluted water. Salt water is mixing with fresh water, making it brackish and reducing the effectiveness of the chlorine that would otherwise kill the bacteria. There is plenty of bacteria around because the water system has not been updated for 30 years and sewage from broken pipes is mixing with drinking water. https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/why-the-world-should-care-about-what-happens-in-basra/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 14:22:59 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:22:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich on Trump Message-ID: *- www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org -*Trump in the Rearview MirrorPosted By Andrew Bacevich On September 13, 2018 @ 1:53 am In articles 2015 | Comments Disabled Donald Trump’s tenure as the 45th U.S. president may last another few weeks, another year, or another 16 months. However unsettling the prospect, the leaky vessel that is the S.S. Trump might even manage to stay afloat for a second term. Nonetheless, recent headline-making revelations suggest that, like some derelict ship that’s gone aground, the Trump presidency may already have effectively run its course. What, then, does this bizarre episode in American history signify? Let me state my own view bluntly: forget the atmospherics. Despite the lies, insults, name calling, and dog whistles, *almost nothing of substance has changed. *Nor will it. To a far greater extent than Trump’s perpetually hyperventilating critics are willing to acknowledge, the United States remains on a trajectory that does not differ appreciably from what it was prior to POTUS #45 taking office. Post-Trump America, just now beginning to come into view, is shaping up to look remarkably like pre-Trump America. I understand that His Weirdness remains in the White House. Yet for all practical purposes, Trump has ceased to govern. True, he continues to rant and issue bizarre directives, which his subordinates implement, amend, or simply disregard as they see fit. Except in a ceremonial sense, the office of the presidency presently lies vacant. Call it an abdication-in-place. It’s as if British King Edward VIII, having abandoned his throne for “the woman I love,” continued to hang around Buckingham Palace fuming about the lack of respect given Wallis and releasing occasional bulletins affirming his admiration for Adolf Hitler. In Trump’s case, it’s unlikely he ever had a more serious interest in governing than Edward had in performing duties more arduous than those he was eventually assigned as Duke of Windsor. Nonetheless, the 60-plus million Americans who voted for Trump did so with at least the expectation that he was going to shake things up. And bigly . Remember, he was going to “lock her up.” He would “drain the swamp” and “build a wall” with Mexico volunteering to foot the bill. Without further ado, he would end “this American carnage.” Meanwhile, “America First” would form the basis for U.S. foreign policy. Once Trump took charge, things were going to be different, as he and he alone would “make America great again.” Yet the cataclysm that Trump’s ascendency was said to signify has yet to occur. Barring a nuclear war, it won’t. If you spend your days watching CNN or MSNBC or reading columnists employed by the *New York Times *and the *Washington Post*, you might conclude otherwise. But those are among the institutions that, on November 8, 2016, suffered a nervous breakdown from which they have yet to recover. Nor, it now seems clear, do they wish to recover as long as Donald Trump remains president. To live in a perpetual state of high dudgeon, denouncing his latest inanity and predicting the onset of fascism, is to enjoy the equivalent of a protracted psychic orgasm, one induced by mutual masturbation. Yet if you look beyond the present to the fairly recent past, it becomes apparent that change on the scale that Trump was promising *had* actually occurred, even if well before he himself showed up on the scene. The consequences of that Big Change are going to persist long after he is gone. It’s those consequences that now demand our attention, not the ongoing Gong Show jointly orchestrated by the White House and journalists fancying themselves valiant defenders of Truth. Trump himself is no more than a pimple on the face of this nation’s history. It’s time to step back from the mirror and examine the face in full. Pretty it’s not. *The Way We Were* Compare the America that welcomed young Donald Trump into the world in 1946 with the country that, some 70 years later, elected him president. As the post-World War II era was beginning, three large facts — so immense that they were simply taken for granted — defined America. First, the United States made everything and made more of it than anyone else. In postwar America, wealth derived in large measure from the manufacture of stuff: steel, automobiles, refrigerators, shoes, socks, blouses, baseballs, you name it. “Made in the USA” was more than just a slogan. With so much of the industrialized world in ruins, the American economy dominated and defined everyday economic reality globally. Second, back then while the mighty engine of industrial capitalism was generating impressive riches, it was also distributing the benefits on a relatively equitable basis . Postwar America was the emblematic middle-class country, the closest approximation to a genuinely classless and democratic society the world had ever seen. Third, having had their fill of fighting from 1941 to 1945, Americans had a genuine aversion to war. They may not have been a peace-loving people, but they knew enough about war to see it as a great evil. Avoiding its further occurrence, if at all possible, was a priority, although one not fully shared by the new national security establishment just then beginning to flex its muscles in Washington. Now, by twenty-first-century standards, many, perhaps nearly all, Americans of that era were bigots of one sort or the other. Racism, sexism, and homophobia flourished, lamented by some, promoted by others, tolerated by the vast majority. An anti-communist political hysteria, abetted by cynical politicians, also flourished. Americans worked themselves into a tizzy over the putative threat posed by small numbers of homegrown subversives. And they fouled the air, water, and soil with abandon. Add to this list violence, crime, corruption, sexual angst, and various forms of self-abuse. Taken as a whole, American society, as it existed when Trump was growing up, was anything but perfect. Yet, for all that, postwar Americans were the envy of the world. And they knew it. By 2016, when Trump was elected president, America had become an altogether different country. Without actually disappearing, racism, sexism, and homophobia had — at least for the moment — gone underground. Attitudes toward people of color, women, and gays that a half-century earlier had been commonplace were now largely confined to a pathological fringe. Hysteria about communists had essentially disappeared, only to be replaced by hysteria over Islamic terrorists. Pollution, of course, persisted, as did violence, crime, corruption, and sexual angst. New and more imaginative forms of self-destructive behavior had made their appearance. Yet little of that turned out to be central. What had truly changed in the decades since Trump was a babe-in-arms were those three taken-for-granted facts that had once distinguished the United States. New realities emerged to invert them. By 2016, the U.S. was no longer by any stretch of the imagination the place that made everything, though it bought everything, often made elsewhere. It had long since become the ultimate consumer society, with Americans accustomed to acquiring and enjoying more than they produced or could afford. Accounts no longer balanced. The government lived on credit, assuming that the bills would never come due. So, too, did many citizens. By 2016, the U.S. had long since become a deeply unequal society of haves and have-nots. Finance capitalism, the successor to industrial capitalism, was creating immense fortunes without even pretending to distribute the benefits equitably. Politicians still routinely paid tribute to the Great American Middle Class. Yet the hallmarks of postwar middle-class life — a steady job, a paycheck adequate to support a family, the prospect of a pension — were rapidly disappearing. While Americans still enjoyed freedom of a sort, many of them lacked security. By 2016, Americans had also come to accept war as normal . Here was “global leadership” made manifest. So U.S. troops were now always out there somewhere fighting, however obscure the purpose of their exertions and however dim their prospects of achieving anything approximating victory . The 99% of Americans who were not soldiers learned to tune out those wars, content merely to “support the troops,” an obligation fulfilled by offering periodic expressions of reverence on public occasions. Thank you for your service! *The Way We Are* But note: Donald Trump played no role in creating this America or consigning the America of 1946 to oblivion. As a modern equivalent of P.T. Barnum, he did demonstrate considerable skill in exploiting the opportunities on offer as the strictures of postwar America gave way. Indeed, he parlayed those opportunities into fortune, celebrity, lots of golf , plenty of sex, and eventually the highest office in the land. Only in America, as we used to say. In 1946, it goes without saying, he would never have been taken seriously as a would-be presidential candidate. By 2016, his narcissism, bombast, vulgarity, and talent for self-promotion nicely expressed the underside of the prevailing zeitgeist. His candidacy was simultaneously preposterous, yet strangely fitting. By the twenty-first century, the values that Trump embodies had become as thoroughly and authentically American as any of those specified in the oracular pronouncements of Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, or Franklin Roosevelt. Trump’s critics may see him as an abomination. But he is also one of us. And here’s the real news: the essential traits that define America today — those things that make this country so different from what it seemed to be in 1946 — will surely survive the Trump presidency. If anything, he and his cronies deserve at least some credit for sustaining just those traits. Candidate Trump essentially promised Americans a version of 1946 *redux*. He would revive manufacturing and create millions of well-paying jobs for working stiffs. By cutting taxes, he would put more money in the average Joe or Jill’s pocket. He would eliminate the trade deficit and balance the federal budget. He would end our endless wars and bring the troops home where they belong. He would oblige America’s allies, portrayed as a crew of freeloaders, to shoulder their share of the burden. He would end illegal immigration. He would make the United States once more the God-fearing Christian country it was meant to be. How seriously Trump expected any of those promises to be taken is anyone’s guess. But this much is for sure: they remain almost entirely unfulfilled. True, domestic manufacturing has experienced a slight uptick , but globalization remains an implacable reality. Unless you’ve got a STEM degree, good jobs are still hard to come by. Ours is increasingly a “gig” economy, which might be cool enough when you’re 25, but less so when you’re in your sixties and wondering if you’ll ever be able to retire. While Trump and a Republican Congress delivered on their promise of tax “reform,” its chief beneficiaries will be the rich, further confirmation, if it were needed, that the American economy is indeed rigged in favor of a growing class of plutocrats. Trade deficit? It’s headed for a 10-year high . Balanced budget? You’ve got to be joking. The estimated federal deficit next year will exceed a trillion dollars , boosting the national debt past $21 trillion. (Trump had promised to eliminate that debt entirely.) And, of course, the wars haven’t ended. Here is Trump, just last month, doing his best George McGovern imitation: “I’m constantly reviewing Afghanistan and the whole Middle East,” he asserted . “We never should have been in the Middle East. It was the single greatest mistake in the history of our country.” Yet Trump has perpetuated and, in some instances, expanded America’s military misadventures in the Greater Middle East, while essentially insulating himself from personal responsibility for their continuation. As commander-in-chief, he’s a distinctly hands-off kind of guy. Despite being unable to walk, President Franklin Roosevelt visited GIs serving in combat zones more often than Trump has. If you want to know why we are in Afghanistan and how long U.S. forces will stay there, ask Defense Secretary James Mattis or some general, but don’t, whatever you do, ask the president. *On Not Turning America’s Back on the World* And then there is the matter of Trump’s “isolationism.” Recall that when he became president, foreign policy experts across Washington warned that the United States would now turn its back on the world and abandon its self-assigned role as keeper of order and defender of democracy. Now, nearing the mid-point of Trump’s first (and hopefully last) term, the United States remains formally committed to defending the territorial integrity of each and every NATO member state, numbering 29 in all. Add to that an obligation to defend nations as varied as Japan, South Korea, and, under the terms of the Rio Pact of 1947, most of Latin America. Less formally but no less substantively, the U.S. ensures the security of Israel, Saudi Arabia, and various other Persian Gulf countries. As for obliging those allies to pony up more for the security we have long claimed to provide, that’s clearly not going to happen any time soon. Our European allies have pocketed both Trump’s insults and his assurances that the United States will continue to defend them, offering in return the vaguest of promises that, sometime in the future, they might consider investing more in defense. By-the-by, U.S. forces under Donald Trump’s ostensible command are today present in more than 150 countries worldwide. Urged on by the president, Congress has passed a bill that boosts the Pentagon budget to $717 billion , an $82 billion increase over the prior year. Needless to say, no adversary or plausible combination of adversaries comes anywhere close to matching that figure. To call this isolationism is comparable to calling Trump svelte. As for the promised barrier, that “big, fat, beautiful wall ,” to seal the southern border, it has advanced no further than the display of several possible prototypes. No evidence exists to suggest that Mexico will, as Trump insisted, pay for its construction, nor that Congress will appropriate the necessary funds, estimated at somewhere north of $20 billion , even with Republicans still controlling both houses of Congress. And in truth, whether it is built or not, the U.S.-Mexico border will remain what it has been for decades: heavily patrolled but porous, a conduit for desperate people seeking safety and opportunity, but also for criminal elements trafficking in drugs or human beings. The point of this informal midterm report card is not to argue that Donald Trump has somehow failed. It is rather to highlight his essential irrelevance. Trump is not the disruptive force that anti-Trumpers accuse him of being. He is merely a noxious, venal, and ineffectual blowhard, who has assembled a team of associates who are themselves, with few exceptions, noxious, venal, or ineffectual. So here’s the upshot of it all: if you were basically okay with where America was headed prior to November 2016, just take a deep breath and think of Donald Trump as the political equivalent of a kidney stone — not fun, but sooner or later, it will pass. And when it does, normalcy will return. Soon enough you’ll forget it ever happened. If, on the other hand, you were not okay with where America was headed in 2016, it’s past time to give up the illusion that Donald Trump is going to make things right. Eventually a pimple dries up and disappears, often without leaving a trace. Such is the eventual destiny of Donald Trump as president. In the meantime, of course, there are any number of things about Trump to raise our ire. Climate change offers a good example. And yet climate change may be the best illustration of Trump’s insignificance. Under President Obama, the United States showed signs of mounting a belated effort to address global warming. The Trump administration wasted little time in reversing course, reverting to the science-denying position to which Republicans adhered long before Trump himself showed up. No doubt future generations will find fault with Trump’s inaction in the face of this crisis. Yet when Miami is underwater and California wildfires rage throughout the year, Trump himself won’t be the only — or even the principal*— *culprit charged with culpable neglect. The nation’s too-little, too-late response to climate change for which a succession of presidents share responsibility illustrates the great and abiding defect of contemporary American politics. When all is said and done, presidents don’t shape the country; the country shapes the presidency — or at least it defines the parameters within which presidents operate. Over the course of the last few decades, those parameters have become increasingly at odds with the collective wellbeing of the American people, not to mention of the planet as a whole. Yet Americans have been obdurate in refusing to acknowledge that fact. Americans today are deeply divided. There exists no greater symbol of that division than Trump himself — the wild enthusiasm he generates in some quarters and the antipathy verging on hatred he elicits in others. The urgent need of the day is to close that divide, which is as broad as it is deep, touching on culture, the political economy, America’s role in the world, and the definition of the common good. I submit that these matters lie beyond any president’s purview, but especially this one’s. Trump is not the problem. Think of him instead as a summons to address the real problem, which in a nation ostensibly of, by, and for the people is the collective responsibility of the people themselves. For Americans to shirk that responsibility further will almost surely pave the way for more Trumps — or someone worse — to come. *This column originally appeared on TomDispatch .* Article printed from www.counterpunch.org: *https://www.counterpunch.org * URL to article: *https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/13/trump-in-the-rearview-mirror/ * Click here to print. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Fri Sep 14 16:41:31 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:41:31 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich on Trump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: > > Americans today are deeply divided. There exists no greater symbol of > that division than Trump himself — the wild enthusiasm he generates in > some quarters and the antipathy verging on hatred he elicits in others. > > The urgent need of the day is to close that divide, which is as broad > as it is deep, touching on culture, the political economy, America’s > role in the world, and the definition of the common good > I didnt vote for Trump but I intend to next time around because some pundit said that NATO could not survive another 4 years of Trump. Bacevich is saying, "Be reasonable and see it my way." A large number of people who voted for Trump in 2016 did so because they despise the Clintons, and hate Hillary Clinton in particular, not because they shared a strong common ideology with Donald Trump the tycoon.  You can use whatever symbolism you like to stand for that division between Clinton voters and Clinton haters but it wasn't the Russians who brought people out of the hills and hollows of rural america and the cul-de-sacs of suburbia to say "no, and I mean, No Hell No!" to Hillary Clinton and her ilk. The antipathy for the Clintons does not "verge on hatred".  It is absolute and utter hatred of the Clintons and what they stand for and more intense hatred of Hillary in particular.  There ain't no changing it. The problem is with the way that people perceive the world. Be reasonable, and see it my way, and we will have unity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 09:02:35 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 04:02:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Bacevich on Trump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <915C6E6B-9FB5-4146-A56F-E73EEA5A69E0@gmail.com> The Clintons are hated (appropriately) because they represent the triumph of neoconservative and neoliberal policies ( = more war and more inequality), 40 years in the making, from the Carter administration on. Scales fell from eyes as it became clear to many Americans that Obama’s “hope and change” was malarkey, and the one percent was using the 2008 financial crisis to confiscate the life chances of the majority. Obama was their agent. That’s the ‘MAGA’ appeal - restore the possibilities that seemed to be open to this generation's parents, and are not open to them. A justified politics of resentment - populism - animated both the Sanders and Trump campaigns. It will only grow. —CGE > On Sep 14, 2018, at 11:41 AM, E. Wayne Johnson via Peace-discuss wrote: > > David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: >> Americans today are deeply divided. There exists no greater symbol of that division than Trump himself — the wild enthusiasm he generates in some quarters and the antipathy verging on hatred he elicits in others. >> >> The urgent need of the day is to close that divide, which is as broad as it is deep, touching on culture, the political economy, America’s role in the world, and the definition of the common good >> > I didnt vote for Trump but I intend to next time around because some pundit said that NATO could not survive another 4 years of Trump. > > Bacevich is saying, "Be reasonable and see it my way." > > A large number of people who voted for Trump in 2016 did so because they despise the Clintons, and hate Hillary Clinton in particular, > not because they shared a strong common ideology with Donald Trump the tycoon. You can use whatever symbolism you like > to stand for that division between Clinton voters and Clinton haters but it wasn't the Russians who brought people out > of the hills and hollows of rural america and the cul-de-sacs of suburbia to say "no, and I mean, No Hell No!" to Hillary Clinton and her ilk. > The antipathy for the Clintons does not "verge on hatred". It is absolute and utter hatred of the Clintons and what they stand for > and more intense hatred of Hillary in particular. There ain't no changing it. > > The problem is with the way that people perceive the world. > > Be reasonable, and see it my way, and we will have unity. > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 09:23:19 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 04:23:19 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Capitalism and Catholicism today Message-ID: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 10:05:48 2018 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 05:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] we have another week on Kavanaugh--apologies for length Message-ID: Folks, We must stop Kavanaugh's appointment to Supreme Court. Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the US Supreme Court must be defeated. He will tilt the court rightward for decades, erasing reproductive rights, net neutrality, environmental protections, election integrity, and promoting a nearly unlimited view of presidential power. He was almost certainly involved in the Bush administration's war-mongering and torture justifications. KEEP CALLING DAILY! Sen Tammy Duckworth is all in, publicly declaring her NO vote. Sen Durbin sits on the Judiciary Committee and will not say he is a NO vote, but has made public statements of support for Sen. Booker's brush with Senate rules, has sent out numerous anti-Kavanaugh petitions, and just released a batch of "committee/confidential" documents. He needs calls and emails into his office saying you oppose Kavanaugh, thanking him for what he has done, and urging him to vote NO and be public about it. Call his Springfield office to leave a voice mail and give your ZIP code so they know you are a constituent. 492-4378 Now here are the DC numbers of the whole Judiciary Committee-keep calling their offices daily to ask for a delay until Kavanaugh can be thoroughly vetted, since only 10% of his papers have been released, he has serious ethical issues, and allegations of sexual misconduct and excessive gambling need to be investigated: Republicans on Judiciary • Chuck Grassley, IA, Chairman (202) 224-3744--lean YES • Orrin Hatch, UT (202) 224-5251-YES • Lindsey Graham, SC (202) 224-5972--YES • John Cornyn, TX (202) 224-2934-YES • Mike Lee, UT (202) 224-5444--lean YES, but willing to work to get more docs released • Ted Cruz, TX (202) 224-5922--YES • Ben Sasse, NE (202) 224-4224-lean YES • Jeff Flake, AZ (202 224-4521--lean YES • Mike Crapo, ID (202) 224-6142--YES • Thom Tillis, NC (202) 224-6342--YES • John Kennedy, LA (202) 224-4623--YES Dems on Judiciary • Dianne Feinstein, CA, Ranking Member (202 224-6551--lean NO • Patrick Leahy, VT (202) 224-4242-lean NO • Dick Durbin, IL (202) 224-2152--lean NO • Sheldon Whitehouse, RI (202 224-2921--NO • Amy Klobuchar, MN (202) 224-3244--NO • Chris Coons, DE (202) 224-5042--lean NO • Richard Blumenthal, CT (202) 224-2823--NO • Mazie Hirono, HI (202) 224-6361--NO • Cory Booker, NJ (202) 224-3224--NO • Kamala Harris, CA (202) 224-3553 --NO IN ADDITION, keep pressure on these waffling Senators: Donnelly-D-IN--202-224-4814 Heitkamp-D-ND--202-224-5521 Jones-D-AL--202-224-4124 McCaskill-D-MO--202-224-6154 Manchin-D-WV--202-2243954 --talked to staffer at a district office who was enthusiastic about passing along"vote NO" message Collins-R-ME--202-224-2523 --getting huge amount of pressure to vote NO and $1 million pledged for opponent if she votes YES Murkowski-R-AK--202-224-6665 Secondary (lean YES): Enzi-R-WY--202-224-3424 Ernst -R-IA--202-224-3254 Fischer-R-NE--202-2246551 GardnerR-CO--202-224-5941 LankfordR-OK--202-224-5754 We have an extra week--let's not waste it! Thanks, Deb From ewj at pigs.ag Fri Sep 14 19:31:55 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (E. Wayne Johnson) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:31:55 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] we have another week on Kavanaugh--apologies for length In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ac5403d-36f5-40c0-4f79-2c07aa218c21@pigs.ag> Image result for kate smith "It's never really Over..." Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss wrote: > Folks, > > We must stop Kavanaugh's appointment to Supreme Court. > > Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the US Supreme Court must be defeated. > He will tilt the court rightward for decades, erasing reproductive > rights, net neutrality, environmental protections, election integrity, > and promoting a nearly unlimited view of presidential power. He was > almost certainly involved in the Bush administration's war-mongering > and torture justifications. > > KEEP CALLING DAILY! > > Sen Tammy Duckworth is all in, publicly declaring her NO vote. Sen > Durbin sits on the Judiciary Committee and will not say he is a NO > vote, but has made public statements of support for Sen. Booker's > brush with Senate rules, has sent out numerous anti-Kavanaugh > petitions, and just released a batch of "committee/confidential" > documents. He needs calls and emails into his office saying you oppose > Kavanaugh, thanking him for what he has done, and urging him to vote > NO and be public about it. Call his Springfield office to leave a > voice mail and give your ZIP code so they know you are a constituent. > 492-4378 > > Now here are the DC numbers of the whole Judiciary Committee-keep > calling their offices daily to ask for a delay until Kavanaugh can be > thoroughly vetted, since only 10% of his papers have been released, he > has serious ethical issues, and allegations of sexual misconduct and > excessive gambling need to be investigated: > > Republicans on Judiciary > • Chuck Grassley, IA, Chairman (202) 224-3744--lean YES > • Orrin Hatch, UT (202) 224-5251-YES > • Lindsey Graham, SC (202) 224-5972--YES > • John Cornyn, TX (202) 224-2934-YES > • Mike Lee, UT (202) 224-5444--lean YES, but willing to work to get > more docs released > • Ted Cruz, TX (202) 224-5922--YES > • Ben Sasse, NE (202) 224-4224-lean YES > • Jeff Flake, AZ (202 224-4521--lean YES > • Mike Crapo, ID (202) 224-6142--YES > • Thom Tillis, NC (202) 224-6342--YES > • John Kennedy, LA (202) 224-4623--YES > Dems on Judiciary > • Dianne Feinstein, CA, Ranking Member (202 224-6551--lean NO > • Patrick Leahy, VT (202) 224-4242-lean NO > • Dick Durbin, IL (202) 224-2152--lean NO > • Sheldon Whitehouse, RI (202 224-2921--NO > • Amy Klobuchar, MN (202) 224-3244--NO > • Chris Coons, DE (202) 224-5042--lean NO > • Richard Blumenthal, CT (202) 224-2823--NO > • Mazie Hirono, HI (202) 224-6361--NO > • Cory Booker, NJ (202) 224-3224--NO > • Kamala Harris, CA (202) 224-3553 --NO > > IN ADDITION, keep pressure on these waffling Senators: > > Donnelly-D-IN--202-224-4814 > Heitkamp-D-ND--202-224-5521 > Jones-D-AL--202-224-4124 > McCaskill-D-MO--202-224-6154 > Manchin-D-WV--202-2243954 --talked to staffer at a district office who > was enthusiastic about passing along"vote NO" message > Collins-R-ME--202-224-2523 --getting huge amount of pressure to vote > NO and $1 million pledged for opponent if she votes YES > Murkowski-R-AK--202-224-6665 > > Secondary (lean YES): > > Enzi-R-WY--202-224-3424 > Ernst -R-IA--202-224-3254 > Fischer-R-NE--202-2246551 > GardnerR-CO--202-224-5941 > LankfordR-OK--202-224-5754 > > We have an extra week--let's not waste it! > > Thanks, > Deb > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Fri Sep 14 23:16:41 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (Anne Parkinson) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:16:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Peace & Life: Gosnell Movie/Unwelcome/Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1093361424.5679917.1536967001552@mail.yahoo.com> carl: your basic point that the peace movement needs all the people it can get is true. However, the world is not black & white, there are so many other colors. It is possible for all people to be involved in the peace movement while keeping their mouths shut about their other opinions. I find myself sounding like everyone who has ever held back on something and said "wait for." Perhaps peace is the thing we have been waiting for too long while we try to fix everything else. Your movie producers have little credibility. Take a quick look at their past productions: "FrackNation,"(described as the Michael Moore movie for the "other side" on Wikipedia), "Mine your own Business," (miners want their jobs of course, while the movie was paid for by the mining company) and "Evil, Not Wrong," (climate-change science might be correct, however it is evil to put limits on environmental destruction when it harms job retention and creation.) The actor playing the title character was the main character in 6 seasons of FX's Justified. I saw the first season of Justified - what I could stand to watch of it. Justified rates up there with many of the most violent, nasty shows out there today. Ironic that actors and producers involved in a movie many people might say would support a "seamless garment of life" have spent their last ten years promoting destroying the environment and creating a television show the old Catholic ratings would put at the worst of their list. I feel like taking a shower every time I hear the word "Justified", that's how evil that television show is. Note of course that this movie has two women producers supplying cash, and one of the producers also had input into the screenplay. There is one woman listed on the movie print ad. Everything else seems to be men: actors, story by, etc. Also interesting that you found a group called "Rehumanize" led by someone named "Herb". Great group name. Why not led by a "Jennie?" Why not "Feminists for Life?" This all smacks of unconscious patriarchy and ownership. A movie that  over-dramatizes how pre-born, pre-made, pre-washed, pre-diapered, pre-fathered, pre-assembled babies are aborted after 16-20 weeks here sometimes is not going to show  babies being killed by the millions in the Middle East and South Asia. That movie is not going to connect at all about how  20 different countries and/or ethnicities - i guess it is more by now- are involved in our oil corporation conflict and how the death numbers are vastly understated. Meanwhile we can use get plastic cups made from oil at the movie theatre for our Cokes. Or are the cups recycled plastic now? Anne.P.S. I may continue to use "carl" instead of "Carl" . It feels so much better thinking of men in the lower case - rather like a Second Sex.  I don't know why.  Perhaps I am simply tired of the same old *&^ On Friday, August 31, 2018 3:08 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: |   | | | Gosnell Movie           The trailer is now out for Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer.  The movie is based on the true story of an abortionist convicted of murdering newborn babies, and manslaughter of a woman. The movie is due out on October 12.         It’s uncommon for Hollywood to take a story like this seriously, and it’s likely to have trouble getting into some theaters – as it is, it’s an independent production funded through a Go Fund Me campaign. Any help on getting it to theaters, and getting theater goers to the movie, will be a tremendous boost to public education on the issue.          ^^^^^^^   Pro-Lifers for Peace Not Welcome?           Activists from member group Rehumanize International participated last weekend in the Pittsburgh March for Peace. While the activists were speaking to reporters covering the March, other attendees, who objected to Rehumanize’s pro-life stance on abortion, attempted to disrupt the interview. Rehumanize member Herb Geraghty, who was present at the confrontation, recounts it on Twitter.         That peace activists would not accept pro-lifers as allies is tragic—and counterproductive. As Herb puts it: “To say that you can’t be both anti-abortion and be involved in anti-war activism is absurd. People are being slaughtered in our name and our planet is literally dying all for the profits of the few. This is an emergency. We need everyone.”    Herb Geraghty, at Pittsburgh March for Peace   ^^^^^^^ Election Season           In the U.S., Labor Day (this year on September 3) is traditionally the start of campaign season for the November elections, after most of the primaries to select candidates have been held. So this is a good time to remind you that we have a page of suggestions for Actions at Election Time. You might also find valuable a resource from Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL; “Friends” being Quakers) on specific questions to ask about current peace and justice issues. FCNL has no position on abortion, but our creative minds can easily see the connections, and help others to understand them as well. In public forums, after all, it’s not just the candidates, but the audience being educated.         We also have bumper stickers and yard signs available.     ^^^^^^^   Quotation of the Week Battle Scars: Military Veterans and the Death Penalty A Report by the Death Penalty Information Center           When many of these veterans faced death penalty trials, their service and related illnesses were barely touched on as their lives were being weighed by judges and juries. Defense attorneys failed to investigate this critical area of mitigation; prosecutors dismissed, or even belittled, their claims of mental trauma from the war; judges discounted such evidence on appeal; and governors passed on their opportunity to bestow the country's mercy. In older cases, some of that dismissiveness might be attributed to ignorance about PTSD and related problems. But many of those death sentences still stand today when the country knows better.       issue #426 08.31.18       Consistent Life Web Page Consistent Life Blog List of All Blog Posts Join or Donate Previous Issues Subjects Index Quotations Topic Index Flyers & Brochures to Download and Print Buttons, Stickers, T-shirts, and Other Products Recommended Books | | | Click to view this email in a browser If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe | | Click here to forward this email to a friend | | Consistent Life P.O. Box 9295 Silver Spring, MD 20916-9295 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. | | _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sat Sep 15 03:28:56 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:28:56 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Peace & Life: Gosnell Movie/Unwelcome/Elections In-Reply-To: <1093361424.5679917.1536967001552@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1093361424.5679917.1536967001552@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1536982134588.ddnnoejq1l2ollopylfmrm1n@android.mail.163.com> such a waste to kill a perfectly good child. if it is ok to kill 3 months preterm why not 3 months post term. +/- 3 seems to provide a balanced approach. really the postterm approach seems more reasonable. how do know if ya like the kid or not if it is still unseen? what can't really understand is how all those other folks who were playing church with George Tiller were able to stomach him taking up the offering... Your legal system should have dealt with Tiller just as with any other brazen murderer. what ever it takes to get the word out. abortion kills an innocent human being. most abortionists are men. does that smack of patriarchy (existential or otherwise)? i am not quite afraid to ask what is " *&^ ". i dont have my postfeminist glossary handy and Ambrose Bierce doesnt answer his texts or emails lately. By ^ do you mean a carrot (caret) or is there some deeper meaning? I dont watch FX but maybe the internet has the show you mention. Will check it out. On 2018-09-15 07:16 , Anne Parkinson via Peace-discuss Wrote: carl: your basic point that the peace movement needs all the people it can get is true. However, the world is not black & white, there are so many other colors. It is possible for all people to be involved in the peace movement while keeping their mouths shut about their other opinions. I find myself sounding like everyone who has ever held back on something and said "wait for." Perhaps peace is the thing we have been waiting for too long while we try to fix everything else. Your movie producers have little credibility. Take a quick look at their past productions: "FrackNation,"(described as the Michael Moore movie for the "other side" on Wikipedia), "Mine your own Business," (miners want their jobs of course, while the movie was paid for by the mining company) and "Evil, Not Wrong," (climate-change science might be correct, however it is evil to put limits on environmental destruction when it harms job retention and creation.) The actor playing the title character was the main character in 6 seasons of FX's Justified. I saw the first season of Justified - what I could stand to watch of it. Justified rates up there with many of the most violent, nasty shows out there today. Ironic that actors and producers involved in a movie many people might say would support a "seamless garment of life" have spent their last ten years promoting destroying the environment and creating a television show the old Catholic ratings would put at the worst of their list. I feel like taking a shower every time I hear the word "Justified", that's how evil that television show is. Note of course that this movie has two women producers supplying cash, and one of the producers also had input into the screenplay. There is one woman listed on the movie print ad. Everything else seems to be men: actors, story by, etc. Also interesting that you found a group called "Rehumanize" led by someone named "Herb". Great group name. Why not led by a "Jennie?" Why not "Feminists for Life?" This all smacks of unconscious patriarchy and ownership. A movie that  over-dramatizes how pre-born, pre-made, pre-washed, pre-diapered, pre-fathered, pre-assembled babies are aborted after 16-20 weeks here sometimes is not going to show  babies being killed by the millions in the Middle East and South Asia. That movie is not going to connect at all about how  20 different countries and/or ethnicities - i guess it is more by now- are involved in our oil corporation conflict and how the death numbers are vastly understated. Meanwhile we can use get plastic cups made from oil at the movie theatre for our Cokes. Or are the cups recycled plastic now? Anne. P.S. I may continue to use "carl" instead of "Carl" . It feels so much better thinking of men in the lower case - rather like a Second Sex.  I don't know why.  Perhaps I am simply tired of the same old *&^ On Friday, August 31, 2018 3:08 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Gosnell Movie The trailer is now out for Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer.  The movie is based on the true story of an abortionist convicted of murdering newborn babies, and manslaughter of a woman. The movie is due out on October 12. It’s uncommon for Hollywood to take a story like this seriously, and it’s likely to have trouble getting into some theaters – as it is, it’s an independent production funded through a Go Fund Me campaign. Any help on getting it to theaters, and getting theater goers to the movie, will be a tremendous boost to public education on the issue. ^^^^^^^ Pro-Lifers for Peace Not Welcome? Activists from member group Rehumanize International participated last weekend in the Pittsburgh March for Peace. While the activists were speaking to reporters covering the March, other attendees, who objected to Rehumanize’s pro-life stance on abortion, attempted to disrupt the interview. Rehumanize member Herb Geraghty, who was present at the confrontation, recounts it on Twitter. That peace activists would not accept pro-lifers as allies is tragic—and counterproductive. As Herb puts it: “To say that you can’t be both anti-abortion and be involved in anti-war activism is absurd. People are being slaughtered in our name and our planet is literally dying all for the profits of the few. This is an emergency. We need everyone.”  Herb Geraghty, at Pittsburgh March for Peace ^^^^^^^ Election Season In the U.S., Labor Day (this year on September 3) is traditionally the start of campaign season for the November elections, after most of the primaries to select candidates have been held. So this is a good time to remind you that we have a page of suggestions for Actions at Election Time. You might also find valuable a resource from Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL; “Friends” being Quakers) on specific questions to ask about current peace and justice issues. FCNL has no position on abortion, but our creative minds can easily see the connections, and help others to understand them as well. In public forums, after all, it’s not just the candidates, but the audience being educated. We also have bumper stickers and yard signs available. ^^^^^^^ Quotation of the Week Battle Scars: Military Veterans and the Death Penalty A Report by the Death Penalty Information Center When many of these veterans faced death penalty trials, their service and related illnesses were barely touched on as their lives were being weighed by judges and juries. Defense attorneys failed to investigate this critical area of mitigation; prosecutors dismissed, or even belittled, their claims of mental trauma from the war; judges discounted such evidence on appeal; and governors passed on their opportunity to bestow the country's mercy. In older cases, some of that dismissiveness might be attributed to ignorance about PTSD and related problems. But many of those death sentences still stand today when the country knows better. issue #426 08.31.18       Consistent Life Web Page Consistent Life Blog List of All Blog Posts Join or Donate Previous Issues Subjects Index Quotations Topic Index Flyers & Brochures to Download and Print Buttons, Stickers, T-shirts, and Other Products Recommended Books Click to view this email in a browser If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe Click here to forward this email to a friend Consistent Life P.O. Box 9295 Silver Spring, MD 20916-9295 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sat Sep 15 03:28:56 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 11:28:56 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Peace & Life: Gosnell Movie/Unwelcome/Elections In-Reply-To: <1093361424.5679917.1536967001552@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1093361424.5679917.1536967001552@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1536982134588.ddnnoejq1l2ollopylfmrm1n@android.mail.163.com> such a waste to kill a perfectly good child. if it is ok to kill 3 months preterm why not 3 months post term. +/- 3 seems to provide a balanced approach. really the postterm approach seems more reasonable. how do know if ya like the kid or not if it is still unseen? what can't really understand is how all those other folks who were playing church with George Tiller were able to stomach him taking up the offering... Your legal system should have dealt with Tiller just as with any other brazen murderer. what ever it takes to get the word out. abortion kills an innocent human being. most abortionists are men. does that smack of patriarchy (existential or otherwise)? i am not quite afraid to ask what is " *&^ ". i dont have my postfeminist glossary handy and Ambrose Bierce doesnt answer his texts or emails lately. By ^ do you mean a carrot (caret) or is there some deeper meaning? I dont watch FX but maybe the internet has the show you mention. Will check it out. On 2018-09-15 07:16 , Anne Parkinson via Peace-discuss Wrote: carl: your basic point that the peace movement needs all the people it can get is true. However, the world is not black & white, there are so many other colors. It is possible for all people to be involved in the peace movement while keeping their mouths shut about their other opinions. I find myself sounding like everyone who has ever held back on something and said "wait for." Perhaps peace is the thing we have been waiting for too long while we try to fix everything else. Your movie producers have little credibility. Take a quick look at their past productions: "FrackNation,"(described as the Michael Moore movie for the "other side" on Wikipedia), "Mine your own Business," (miners want their jobs of course, while the movie was paid for by the mining company) and "Evil, Not Wrong," (climate-change science might be correct, however it is evil to put limits on environmental destruction when it harms job retention and creation.) The actor playing the title character was the main character in 6 seasons of FX's Justified. I saw the first season of Justified - what I could stand to watch of it. Justified rates up there with many of the most violent, nasty shows out there today. Ironic that actors and producers involved in a movie many people might say would support a "seamless garment of life" have spent their last ten years promoting destroying the environment and creating a television show the old Catholic ratings would put at the worst of their list. I feel like taking a shower every time I hear the word "Justified", that's how evil that television show is. Note of course that this movie has two women producers supplying cash, and one of the producers also had input into the screenplay. There is one woman listed on the movie print ad. Everything else seems to be men: actors, story by, etc. Also interesting that you found a group called "Rehumanize" led by someone named "Herb". Great group name. Why not led by a "Jennie?" Why not "Feminists for Life?" This all smacks of unconscious patriarchy and ownership. A movie that  over-dramatizes how pre-born, pre-made, pre-washed, pre-diapered, pre-fathered, pre-assembled babies are aborted after 16-20 weeks here sometimes is not going to show  babies being killed by the millions in the Middle East and South Asia. That movie is not going to connect at all about how  20 different countries and/or ethnicities - i guess it is more by now- are involved in our oil corporation conflict and how the death numbers are vastly understated. Meanwhile we can use get plastic cups made from oil at the movie theatre for our Cokes. Or are the cups recycled plastic now? Anne. P.S. I may continue to use "carl" instead of "Carl" . It feels so much better thinking of men in the lower case - rather like a Second Sex.  I don't know why.  Perhaps I am simply tired of the same old *&^ On Friday, August 31, 2018 3:08 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss wrote: Gosnell Movie The trailer is now out for Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer.  The movie is based on the true story of an abortionist convicted of murdering newborn babies, and manslaughter of a woman. The movie is due out on October 12. It’s uncommon for Hollywood to take a story like this seriously, and it’s likely to have trouble getting into some theaters – as it is, it’s an independent production funded through a Go Fund Me campaign. Any help on getting it to theaters, and getting theater goers to the movie, will be a tremendous boost to public education on the issue. ^^^^^^^ Pro-Lifers for Peace Not Welcome? Activists from member group Rehumanize International participated last weekend in the Pittsburgh March for Peace. While the activists were speaking to reporters covering the March, other attendees, who objected to Rehumanize’s pro-life stance on abortion, attempted to disrupt the interview. Rehumanize member Herb Geraghty, who was present at the confrontation, recounts it on Twitter. That peace activists would not accept pro-lifers as allies is tragic—and counterproductive. As Herb puts it: “To say that you can’t be both anti-abortion and be involved in anti-war activism is absurd. People are being slaughtered in our name and our planet is literally dying all for the profits of the few. This is an emergency. We need everyone.”  Herb Geraghty, at Pittsburgh March for Peace ^^^^^^^ Election Season In the U.S., Labor Day (this year on September 3) is traditionally the start of campaign season for the November elections, after most of the primaries to select candidates have been held. So this is a good time to remind you that we have a page of suggestions for Actions at Election Time. You might also find valuable a resource from Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL; “Friends” being Quakers) on specific questions to ask about current peace and justice issues. FCNL has no position on abortion, but our creative minds can easily see the connections, and help others to understand them as well. In public forums, after all, it’s not just the candidates, but the audience being educated. We also have bumper stickers and yard signs available. ^^^^^^^ Quotation of the Week Battle Scars: Military Veterans and the Death Penalty A Report by the Death Penalty Information Center When many of these veterans faced death penalty trials, their service and related illnesses were barely touched on as their lives were being weighed by judges and juries. Defense attorneys failed to investigate this critical area of mitigation; prosecutors dismissed, or even belittled, their claims of mental trauma from the war; judges discounted such evidence on appeal; and governors passed on their opportunity to bestow the country's mercy. In older cases, some of that dismissiveness might be attributed to ignorance about PTSD and related problems. But many of those death sentences still stand today when the country knows better. issue #426 08.31.18       Consistent Life Web Page Consistent Life Blog List of All Blog Posts Join or Donate Previous Issues Subjects Index Quotations Topic Index Flyers & Brochures to Download and Print Buttons, Stickers, T-shirts, and Other Products Recommended Books Click to view this email in a browser If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe Click here to forward this email to a friend Consistent Life P.O. Box 9295 Silver Spring, MD 20916-9295 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:34:56 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 10:34:56 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Billionaire goes Dem Message-ID: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/opinion/sunday/seth-klarman-donations-trump-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage Reading this piece by a neocon, Zionist member of the NYT editorial board, Bari Weiss, about a man who is certainly a neocon Zionist as well, only reinforces my belief that the Democratic Party should be seen as a hopeless cause, on any number of counts--"overdetermined", as they say in academia. DG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 17:06:59 2018 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] use social media to help stop Kavanaugh Message-ID: Folks, There are so many reasons to block Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation to the Supreme Court. The Judiciary Committee is scheduled to vote Thursday. Only massive public outrage and pressure on Senators will stop this debacle. please call Sen Duckworth and thank her for opposing Kavanaugh, call Sen Durbin and urge him to oppose Kavanaugh publicly and release documents detailing Kavanaugh's role in torture justification under Bush II, call the members of the Judiciary Committee and urge them to delay the vote for more vetting or vote NO. Only public pressure will make any difference. Please help spread the word: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PDAmerica/posts/10156915149009236 Twitter: https://twitter.com/pdamerica/status/1041330258593624064 Google+: https://plus.google.com/b/104691289259473848877/+ProgressiveDemocratsofAmerica/posts/HPBjojYTrpm Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6447095486598955008 Tumblr: http://pdamerica.tumblr.com/post/178143827202/stop-pro-torture-kavanaugh-today Pinterest: https://pin.it/q3j3swlhb6vc2n Thanks, Deb From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 18:22:48 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:22:48 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Billionaire goes Dem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D79C332-069D-494C-9FDB-BDFD47036E2A@gmail.com> And that overdetermination - especially in regard to war and Russiagate - suggests to me that one cannot in good conscience vote in a way that contributes to Democrats’ gaining control of the House. That means voting for Rodney Davis, the feckless Republican incumbent, in our Congressional district (IL 13), rather than the thoroughly conventional Democrat candidate. —CGE > On Sep 16, 2018, at 10:34 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/15/opinion/sunday/seth-klarman-donations-trump-democrats.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage > > Reading this piece by a neocon, Zionist member of the NYT editorial board, Bari Weiss, about a man who is certainly a neocon Zionist as well, only reinforces my belief that the Democratic Party should be seen as a hopeless cause, on any number of counts--"overdetermined", as they say in academia. > > DG > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 18:55:17 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:55:17 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 Message-ID: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are available at . ) I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. It’s not been an encouraging trip. Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as long as we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a century ago “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the left - i.e., lists to port. {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), “...what’s past is prologue, what to come In yours and my discharge.” In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. ### From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 00:27:41 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:27:41 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 In-Reply-To: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> References: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> Message-ID: News from Neptune #394 - "Listing to port" edition Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 Links to works referenced on the show: Gary Olson's "Pope Francis and the Battle Over Cultural Terrain" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ 2/3rds of Progressive Democrats are silent on foreign policy. Why? https://www.blackagendareport.com/two-thirds-progressive-democratic-congressional-candidates-completely-silent-foreign-policy Matt Taibbi's "On the 10-year Anniversary of the Crash" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/ Margarethe von Trotta's film "Rosa Luxemburg" (1986) Movie with hardcoded subtitles (runs 1h58m): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR0MmxB2qU Carl Boggs on "Obama’s Imperial Presidency" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/ Anthony DiMaggio on the real threat to the US being "fascism in the White House" and threat #1: Donald Trump https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/full-on-fascism-trump-makes-the-transition-in-his-war-on-the-press/ "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow" https://gravitys-rainbow.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/ -- "Gravity's Rainbow" wiki https://archive.org/details/WeisenburgerAGravitysRainbowCompanion -- Weisenburger's "Gravity's Rainbow" companion in multiple formats. John Steppling on Obama https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/unravelling/ "Being an old farm boy myself, chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they always made me glad." -- Malcolm X on Pres. Kennedy's assassination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6aX3dHR2k -- Malcolm X talking about his famous statement. Edward Michael "Mike" Harrington Jr.'s book "The Other America: Poverty in the United States" ISBN: 0-684-82678-X Harrington's book "Socialism" ISBN: 9780841501416 Harrington coined the term "neoconservatism". "Today's Other America: Corporate Power and Inequality" documentary based on "The Other America" book. Maurice Isserman "The Other American: The Life of Michael Harrington" ISBN: 1-58648-036-7 > On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:55 PM, C G Estabrook wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 > > {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. > > Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. > > For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are available at . ) > > I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. It’s not been an encouraging trip. > > Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as long as we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” > > Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page > > We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a century ago > “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” > > This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the left - i.e., lists to port. > > {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. > > Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN > > Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), > > “...what’s past is prologue, what to come > In yours and my discharge.” > > In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. > > ### > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 02:04:45 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 21:04:45 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 In-Reply-To: References: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would add this article, referred to on the program, although it's problematic especially regarding Harrington. https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/31/grappling-with-the-racism-of-the-dsas-founders/ On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 7:28 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > News from Neptune #394 - "Listing to port" edition > Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 > > Links to works referenced on the show: > > > Gary Olson's "Pope Francis and the Battle Over Cultural Terrain" > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ > > > > > 2/3rds of Progressive Democrats are silent on foreign policy. Why? > > > https://www.blackagendareport.com/two-thirds-progressive-democratic-congressional-candidates-completely-silent-foreign-policy > > > > Matt Taibbi's "On the 10-year Anniversary of the Crash" > > > https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/ > > > > Margarethe von Trotta's film "Rosa Luxemburg" (1986) > > Movie with hardcoded subtitles (runs 1h58m): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR0MmxB2qU > > > > > Carl Boggs on "Obama’s Imperial Presidency" > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/ > > > > > Anthony DiMaggio on the real threat to the US being "fascism in the White > House" and threat #1: Donald Trump > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/full-on-fascism-trump-makes-the-transition-in-his-war-on-the-press/ > > > > "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry > about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow" > > https://gravitys-rainbow.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/ -- "Gravity's Rainbow" wiki > > https://archive.org/details/WeisenburgerAGravitysRainbowCompanion -- > Weisenburger's "Gravity's Rainbow" companion in multiple formats. > > > > John Steppling on Obama > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/unravelling/ > > > > "Being an old farm boy myself, chickens coming home to roost never did > make me sad; they always made me glad." -- Malcolm X on Pres. Kennedy's > assassination > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6aX3dHR2k -- Malcolm X talking about > his famous statement. > > > > > Edward Michael "Mike" Harrington Jr.'s book "The Other America: Poverty in > the United States" > ISBN: 0-684-82678-X > > Harrington's book "Socialism" > ISBN: 9780841501416 > > Harrington coined the term "neoconservatism". > > "Today's Other America: Corporate Power and Inequality" documentary based > on "The Other America" book. > > Maurice Isserman "The Other American: The Life of Michael Harrington" > ISBN: 1-58648-036-7 > > On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:55 PM, C G Estabrook wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 > > {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week of > 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. > > Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time > it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. > > For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of > spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its > coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and > now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are > available at . ) > > I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. > It’s not been an encouraging trip. > > Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been > writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as long as > we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you > repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say > something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” > > Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks to > Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the NEWS > FROM NEPTUNE fb page > > We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a > century ago > “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what > is happening.” > > This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll > present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also > means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right > distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the > left - i.e., lists to port. > > {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. > News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is > produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). > This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. > > Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man > on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN > > Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From Neptune > - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), > > “...what’s past is prologue, what to come > In yours and my discharge.” > > In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. > > ### > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 08:32:27 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C. G. Estabrook ) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 03:32:27 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Richard Rohr Meditation:Renewal of Contemplative Christianity References: Message-ID: <7E64224B-8B3E-4814-A16C-C088A5EEE904@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: "Center for Action and Contemplation" > Date: September 17, 2018 at 1:00:41 AM CDT > To: "Cg Estabrook" > Subject: Richard Rohr Meditation:Renewal of Contemplative Christianity > Reply-To: Meditations at cac.org > > > No Images? Click here > > > > > Richard Rohr's Daily Meditation > From the Center for Action and Contemplation > > > > Week Thirty-eight > > Western Christianity > > > > > Renewal of Contemplative Christianity > Monday, September 17, 2018 > > > In the 1950s and 1960s, Thomas Merton brought renewed interest to the contemplative tradition in the West. He became a Trappist monk and “left the world” for the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, where he learned the lessons of contemplation and action. > Merton was spiritual director to James Finley, one of our CAC faculty members, for five and a half years. Finley recalls that when he voiced a complaint about something, Merton would tell him, “We don’t come to the monastery to get away from suffering; we come to hold the suffering of all the world.” [1] This can only be done by plugging into a larger consciousness through contemplation. No longer focused on our individual private perfection—or what Merton called “our personal salvation project”—we become fully human and usable by opening our hearts to God. > Through contemplation—holding the paradoxes of life—Merton struggled against “the evil [that] is in us all . . . [and] the blindness of a world that wants to end itself.” He fought against violence, war, racism, poverty, and consumerism. He wrote, “Those who continue to struggle are at peace. If God wills, they can pacify the world. For [the person] who accepts the struggle in the name of Christ is delivered from its power by the victory of Christ.” [2] > Many other modern mystics have brought awareness of and tools for contemplative practice to Western Christianity, from Evelyn Underhill (1875–1941), Teilhard de Chardin (1881–1955), Simone Weil (1909–1943), to current teachers such as Barbara Holmes and Mirabai Starr. Cynthia Bourgeault, who is herself a contemplative leader and a CAC faculty member, describes the origins of Centering Prayer and Christian meditation in the mid-1970s: > Thomas Keating [born 1923] and John Main (1926–1982) responded to Merton’s prophetic call, developing simple meditation methods solidly rooted in the Christian spiritual tradition and suitable for use not only within the cloister walls, but in a world hungry for the recovery of its spiritual roots. All three of these men recognized meditation not as a newfangled innovation, let alone the grafting onto Christianity of an Eastern practice, but rather, as something that had originally been at the very center of Christian practice and had become lost. [3] > > > Gateway to Presence: > If you want to go deeper with today’s meditation, take note of what word or phrase stands out to you. Come back to that word or phrase throughout the day, being present to its impact and invitation. > > > > [1] James Finley, Intimacy: The Divine Ambush, disc 4 (Center for Action and Contemplation: 2013), CD, MP3 download. > [2] Thomas Merton, “First and Last Thoughts: An Author’s Preface,” in A Thomas Merton Reader, ed. Thomas P. McDonnell, rev. ed. (Doubleday Image: 1996), 18. > [3] Adapted from Cynthia Bourgeault, Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening (Cowley Publications: 2004), 55-58. > Image credit: Country Gate at Dawn (detail), Anton Goncharov. > > > > > > Forward to a Friend → > > Forward this email to a friend or family member that may find it meaningful. > > > > Was this email forwarded to you? Sign up for the daily, weekly, or monthly meditations. > > Sign Up → > > > > > Thank you for being part of CAC’s contemplative community. You are one of 300,812 readers worldwide (as of September 2018). > > > > News from the CAC > > Have you seen CAC's new online store? > If you haven’t stopped by our new shop yet, come visit and stay awhile! We’ve been working hard to create a better container for our faculty’s transformative teachings. The new website makes it much easier to navigate, search, and check out, whether you’re on a computer or mobile device. Browse at store.cac.org. > > > > "Image and Likeness" > > 2018 Daily Meditations Theme > God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness.” —Genesis 1:26 > Richard Rohr explores places in which God’s presence has often been ignored or assumed absent. God’s “image” is our inherent identity in and union with God, an eternal essence that cannot be destroyed. “Likeness” is our personal embodiment of that inner divine image that we have the freedom to develop—or not—throughout our lives. Though we differ in likeness, the imago Dei persists and shines through all created things. > Over the course of this year’s Daily Meditations, discover opportunities to incarnate love in your unique context by unveiling the Image and Likeness of God in all that you see and do. > > Each week builds on previous topics, but you can join at any time! Click the video to learn more about the theme and to find meditations you may have missed. > > > > We hope that reading these messages is a contemplative, spiritual practice for you. Learn about contemplative prayer and other forms of meditation. For frequently asked questions—such as what versions of the Bible Father Richard recommends or how to ensure you receive every meditation—please see our email FAQ. > > > > > > > > Feel free to share meditations on social media. Go to CAC’s Facebook page or Twitter feed and find today’s post. Or use the “Forward” button above to send via email. > Richard Rohr's Daily Meditations are made possible through the generosity of CAC's donors. Please consider making a tax-deductible donation. > If you would like to change how often you receive emails from CAC, click here. If you would like to change your email address, click here. Visit our Email Subscription FAQ page for more information. Submit an inquiry here for additional assistance. > > Inspiration for this week's banner image: The word contemplation must press beyond the constraints of religious expectations to reach the potential for spiritual centering in the midst of danger. . . . During slavery, . . . crisis contemplation became a refuge, a wellspring of discernment in a suddenly disordered life space, and a geo-spiritual anvil for forging a new identity. —Barbara Holmes > > > > > © 2018 | Center for Action and Contemplation > 1823 Five Points Road SW > Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA > Like > Tweet > Forward > Unsubscribe > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon Sep 17 13:28:55 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:28:55 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 In-Reply-To: References: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> Message-ID: This article on Counterpunch by Andrew Stewart, is problematic, but it makes a good point. We shouldn’t rely only upon Wikipedia for information related to those leaders or vanguard members of organizations that have so much influence on so many today. I would like to know more about Max Schatzman, credited with being the founder of the current ISO. His anti-communist, anti-Stalin opinions provided by the Counterpunch article, is important as it may explain why the ISO today is negative towards groups like the PSL and “anti-war activists” referring to them as Assadists in relation to Syria. They focus very little on foreign policy, is this the legacy of Schatzman? On Sep 16, 2018, at 19:04, David Green via Peace > wrote: I would add this article, referred to on the program, although it's problematic especially regarding Harrington. https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/31/grappling-with-the-racism-of-the-dsas-founders/ On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 7:28 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: News from Neptune #394 - "Listing to port" edition Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 Links to works referenced on the show: Gary Olson's "Pope Francis and the Battle Over Cultural Terrain" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ 2/3rds of Progressive Democrats are silent on foreign policy. Why? https://www.blackagendareport.com/two-thirds-progressive-democratic-congressional-candidates-completely-silent-foreign-policy Matt Taibbi's "On the 10-year Anniversary of the Crash" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/ Margarethe von Trotta's film "Rosa Luxemburg" (1986) Movie with hardcoded subtitles (runs 1h58m): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR0MmxB2qU Carl Boggs on "Obama’s Imperial Presidency" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/ Anthony DiMaggio on the real threat to the US being "fascism in the White House" and threat #1: Donald Trump https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/full-on-fascism-trump-makes-the-transition-in-his-war-on-the-press/ "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow" https://gravitys-rainbow.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/ -- "Gravity's Rainbow" wiki https://archive.org/details/WeisenburgerAGravitysRainbowCompanion -- Weisenburger's "Gravity's Rainbow" companion in multiple formats. John Steppling on Obama https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/unravelling/ "Being an old farm boy myself, chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they always made me glad." -- Malcolm X on Pres. Kennedy's assassination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6aX3dHR2k -- Malcolm X talking about his famous statement. Edward Michael "Mike" Harrington Jr.'s book "The Other America: Poverty in the United States" ISBN: 0-684-82678-X Harrington's book "Socialism" ISBN: 9780841501416 Harrington coined the term "neoconservatism". "Today's Other America: Corporate Power and Inequality" documentary based on "The Other America" book. Maurice Isserman "The Other American: The Life of Michael Harrington" ISBN: 1-58648-036-7 On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:55 PM, C G Estabrook > wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are available at >. ) I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. It’s not been an encouraging trip. Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as long as we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a century ago “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the left - i.e., lists to port. {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), “...what’s past is prologue, what to come In yours and my discharge.” In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 15:26:44 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 10:26:44 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 In-Reply-To: References: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> Message-ID: Max Schactman is certainly seen as a problematic figure on the left in relation to his form of anti-Communism. I don't know if that's related to the ISO situation currently, but in relation to Stalin/Assad, it seems to rhyme. On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 8:28 AM Karen Aram wrote: > This article on Counterpunch by Andrew Stewart, is problematic, but it > makes a good point. We shouldn’t rely only upon Wikipedia for information > related to those leaders or vanguard members of organizations that have so > much influence on so many today. > > I would like to know more about Max Schatzman, credited with being the > founder of the current ISO. His anti-communist, anti-Stalin opinions > provided by the Counterpunch article, is important as it may explain why > the ISO today is negative towards groups like the PSL and “anti-war > activists” referring to them as Assadists in relation to Syria. They focus > very little on foreign policy, is this the legacy of Schatzman? > > > On Sep 16, 2018, at 19:04, David Green via Peace > wrote: > > I would add this article, referred to on the program, although it's > problematic especially regarding Harrington. > > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/31/grappling-with-the-racism-of-the-dsas-founders/ > > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 7:28 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < > peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> News from Neptune #394 - "Listing to port" edition >> Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 >> >> Links to works referenced on the show: >> >> >> Gary Olson's "Pope Francis and the Battle Over Cultural Terrain" >> >> >> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ >> >> >> >> >> 2/3rds of Progressive Democrats are silent on foreign policy. Why? >> >> >> https://www.blackagendareport.com/two-thirds-progressive-democratic-congressional-candidates-completely-silent-foreign-policy >> >> >> >> Matt Taibbi's "On the 10-year Anniversary of the Crash" >> >> >> https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/ >> >> >> >> Margarethe von Trotta's film "Rosa Luxemburg" (1986) >> >> Movie with hardcoded subtitles (runs 1h58m): >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR0MmxB2qU >> >> >> >> >> Carl Boggs on "Obama’s Imperial Presidency" >> >> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/ >> >> >> >> >> Anthony DiMaggio on the real threat to the US being "fascism in the White >> House" and threat #1: Donald Trump >> >> >> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/full-on-fascism-trump-makes-the-transition-in-his-war-on-the-press/ >> >> >> >> "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry >> about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow" >> >> https://gravitys-rainbow.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/ -- "Gravity's Rainbow" >> wiki >> >> https://archive.org/details/WeisenburgerAGravitysRainbowCompanion -- >> Weisenburger's "Gravity's Rainbow" companion in multiple formats. >> >> >> >> John Steppling on Obama >> >> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/unravelling/ >> >> >> >> "Being an old farm boy myself, chickens coming home to roost never did >> make me sad; they always made me glad." -- Malcolm X on Pres. Kennedy's >> assassination >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6aX3dHR2k -- Malcolm X talking about >> his famous statement. >> >> >> >> >> Edward Michael "Mike" Harrington Jr.'s book "The Other America: Poverty >> in the United States" >> ISBN: 0-684-82678-X >> >> Harrington's book "Socialism" >> ISBN: 9780841501416 >> >> Harrington coined the term "neoconservatism". >> >> "Today's Other America: Corporate Power and Inequality" documentary based >> on "The Other America" book. >> >> Maurice Isserman "The Other American: The Life of Michael Harrington" >> ISBN: 1-58648-036-7 >> >> On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:55 PM, C G Estabrook wrote: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 >> >> {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week >> of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. >> >> Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time >> it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. >> >> For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of >> spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its >> coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and >> now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are >> available at . ) >> >> I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. >> It’s not been an encouraging trip. >> >> Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s >> been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as >> long as we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either >> you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you >> say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” >> >> Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks >> to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the >> NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page >> >> We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a >> century ago >> “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly >> what is happening.” >> >> This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll >> present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also >> means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right >> distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the >> left - i.e., lists to port. >> >> {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. >> News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is >> produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). >> This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. >> >> Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man >> on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN >> >> Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From >> Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), >> >> >> “...what’s past is prologue, what to come >> In yours and my discharge.” >> >> In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. >> >> ### >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace-discuss mailing list >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Mon Sep 17 15:35:38 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Estabrook, Carl G) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 15:35:38 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 In-Reply-To: References: <040B9EAE-0172-41AB-BAC1-1FAA2E0FD892@gmail.com> , Message-ID: <55C1235D4C0F314D9285438F01AE1A3BCB2250B6@chimbx2.ad.uillinois.edu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Shachtman Shachtman's history is regularly occluded both Left and Right, owing in part to his own tergiversations. Seeking friends, he managed to garner critics on all sides. The USG suppression of the Left in the 20th century entered a new phase after the revolt of Eurasia against the US empire in the second half of the century. But the empire's vast propaganda system and media control made that suppression relatively unknown to most Americans - the real targets of the propaganda system since the Wilson administration. The history is recalled - insofar as it is - in the tendentious accounts of M-L sects (whom Chomsky et al. have criticized form the left, not the right) --CGE ________________________________ From: Peace-discuss [peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 8:28 AM To: David Green Cc: Peace-discuss List (peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net); peace at anti-war.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] 'News from Neptune' for Friday 14 September 2018 This article on Counterpunch by Andrew Stewart, is problematic, but it makes a good point. We shouldn’t rely only upon Wikipedia for information related to those leaders or vanguard members of organizations that have so much influence on so many today. I would like to know more about Max Schatzman, credited with being the founder of the current ISO. His anti-communist, anti-Stalin opinions provided by the Counterpunch article, is important as it may explain why the ISO today is negative towards groups like the PSL and “anti-war activists” referring to them as Assadists in relation to Syria. They focus very little on foreign policy, is this the legacy of Schatzman? On Sep 16, 2018, at 19:04, David Green via Peace > wrote: I would add this article, referred to on the program, although it's problematic especially regarding Harrington. https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/31/grappling-with-the-racism-of-the-dsas-founders/ On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 7:28 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss > wrote: News from Neptune #394 - "Listing to port" edition Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 Links to works referenced on the show: Gary Olson's "Pope Francis and the Battle Over Cultural Terrain" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/pope-francis-and-the-battle-over-cultural-terrain/ 2/3rds of Progressive Democrats are silent on foreign policy. Why? https://www.blackagendareport.com/two-thirds-progressive-democratic-congressional-candidates-completely-silent-foreign-policy Matt Taibbi's "On the 10-year Anniversary of the Crash" https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/ Margarethe von Trotta's film "Rosa Luxemburg" (1986) Movie with hardcoded subtitles (runs 1h58m): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR0MmxB2qU Carl Boggs on "Obama’s Imperial Presidency" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/14/obamas-imperial-presidency/ Anthony DiMaggio on the real threat to the US being "fascism in the White House" and threat #1: Donald Trump https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/11/full-on-fascism-trump-makes-the-transition-in-his-war-on-the-press/ "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow" https://gravitys-rainbow.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/ -- "Gravity's Rainbow" wiki https://archive.org/details/WeisenburgerAGravitysRainbowCompanion -- Weisenburger's "Gravity's Rainbow" companion in multiple formats. John Steppling on Obama https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/unravelling/ "Being an old farm boy myself, chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they always made me glad." -- Malcolm X on Pres. Kennedy's assassination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD6aX3dHR2k -- Malcolm X talking about his famous statement. Edward Michael "Mike" Harrington Jr.'s book "The Other America: Poverty in the United States" ISBN: 0-684-82678-X Harrington's book "Socialism" ISBN: 9780841501416 Harrington coined the term "neoconservatism". "Today's Other America: Corporate Power and Inequality" documentary based on "The Other America" book. Maurice Isserman "The Other American: The Life of Michael Harrington" ISBN: 1-58648-036-7 On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:55 PM, C G Estabrook > wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b5ZYpfLf8 {INTRO} Good evening, & welcome to News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. I’m Carl Estabrook. Historians consider a generation to be about 25 years - roughly the time it takes for you to get to the age your parents are now. For more than a generation, this program has been a weekly hour of spontaneous & unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the media - first, on a so-called community radio station - and now via Urbana Public TV and YouTube. (Earlier editions of this program are available at >. ) I’m now the age my parents would have been when we started the program. It’s not been an encouraging trip. Our program’s name, News from Neptune, comes from Noam Chomsky, who’s been writing sensible things about U.S. politics for more than twice as long as we’ve ben on the air. Chomsky says that in the U.S. media, “Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it’s from Neptune.” Tonight David Green & I - will try to say some true things with thanks to Dr Know, J. B. Nicholson, for research. Know’s Notes are posted on the NEWS FROM NEPTUNE fb page We try to bear in mind the murdered Rosa Luxemburg’s remark, from a century ago “The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.” This is a “listing to port” edition (for a hurricane weekend). We’ll present lists of news stories that are generally ignored. Listing also means leaning - as port means ‘left.’ As antiquated as the left/right distinction may be in politics, we may say that this program leans to the left - i.e., lists to port. {OUTRO} You've been watching News from Neptune for the 37th week of 2018. News From Neptune is presented by Carl Estabrook & David Green. It is produced & directed by Jason Liggett & Ethan Young, with Andrew Scolari). This has been a “Listing to Port” edition. Our thanks to Research Director Dr. Know, J. B. Nicholson, the Third Man on News From Neptune - “Know’s Notes” are posted on the fb page for NFN Inshallah, we’ll be back next week with a new edition of News From Neptune - to remind you, in the words of Edward de Vere (in The Tempest), “...what’s past is prologue, what to come In yours and my discharge.” In the meantime, confusion to our enemies, and a good night to you. ### _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Mon Sep 17 16:56:25 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:56:25 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Corbyn Might Long Regret Capitulation on Anti-Semitism References: <4269235098.-1746826769@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: <4DE59A4B-B976-4F3F-983D-C80022CC9895@illinois.edu> Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: "Consortiumnews.com" > Date: September 17, 2018 at 10:12:10 AM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Subject: Corbyn Might Long Regret Capitulation on Anti-Semitism > Reply-To: info at consortiumnews.com > > > > The British Labour Party’s decision to adopt the IHRA’s contested anti-Semitism definition is a victory for the Israel lobby and for forces on both sides of the Atlantic seeking to stifle criticism of Mideast policy, argues Daniel Lazare. > > https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/15/corbyn-might-long-regret-capitulation-on-anti-semitism/ > While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > How Yasser Arafat Led the Palestinians to Trump’s ‘Deal of the Century’ by As’ad AbuKhalil > > Freedom Flotilla Missions Will Continue ‘Until Palestine Is Free’ by Elizabeth Murray > > > To keep this independent investigative news site going, we rely on the generosity of our readers. If you can, please consider a tax-deductible donation. > > You can make a donation by > > credit card online > > or by > > mailing a check > > to: > > Consortium for Independent Journalism (CIJ) > 2200 Wilson Blvd. > Suite 102-231 > Arlington, VA 22201 > > (For readers wanting to use PayPal, you can send contributions to our account, which is named "consortnew at aol.com"). > > CIJ is a 501-c-3 tax-exempt organization, so your donations may be tax-deductible in the United States. (You also can direct donations to us through your company's charitible-giving programs.) > > > To remove yourself from this list, click here. > > > (If you have trouble with this automatic unsubscribe feature, please make your request to be taken off the list to us directly at info at consortiumnews.com and we'll take care of it by hand.) > > > To remove yourself from this list, click here. > To contact Consortiumnews.com, click here. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue Sep 18 17:44:59 2018 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:44:59 +0000 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Syria deception Message-ID: https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/09/15/presenting-the-syria-deception-al-qaeda-goes-to-hollywood-video/ From cgestabrook at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 19:00:20 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C. G. Estabrook ) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:00:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: The West Against the Rest or The West Against Itself? References: <4269444262.1277278932@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com> Message-ID: <3FE22032-3F06-4AE3-8CD6-99D823C9F2D0@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: "Consortiumnews.com" > Date: September 18, 2018 at 1:12:36 PM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Subject: The West Against the Rest or The West Against Itself? > Reply-To: info at consortiumnews.com > > > > The West’s illiberal-bashing frenzy has reduced what should be a crucial debate about a fearful West Against the Rest, to the more pressing issue of The West Against Itself, writes Pepe Escobar. > > https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/18/the-west-against-the-rest-or-the-west-against-itself/ > While there, read other stories at https://consortiumnews.com/, including: > > The Donald in Wonderland by Nomi Prins > > > To keep this independent investigative news site going, we rely on the generosity of our readers. If you can, please consider a tax-deductible donation. > > You can make a donation by > > credit card online > > or by > > mailing a check > > to: > > Consortium for Independent Journalism (CIJ) > 2200 Wilson Blvd. > Suite 102-231 > Arlington, VA 22201 > > (For readers wanting to use PayPal, you can send contributions to our account, which is named "consortnew at aol.com"). > > CIJ is a 501-c-3 tax-exempt organization, so your donations may be tax-deductible in the United States. (You also can direct donations to us through your company's charitible-giving programs.) > > > To remove yourself from this list, click here. > > > (If you have trouble with this automatic unsubscribe feature, please make your request to be taken off the list to us directly at info at consortiumnews.com and we'll take care of it by hand.) > > > To remove yourself from this list, click here. > To contact Consortiumnews.com, click here. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 08:45:19 2018 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 03:45:19 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are not simply a 'he said, she said' situation Message-ID: <902CF92E-EFE1-4D05-9DB8-C33C10DC7238@gmail.com> Once again we see that women are not taken seriously when it comes to credible and serious allegations of sexual assault. Please keep calling members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and ask for a thorough and independent investigation of these allegations before proceeding to a vote. Deb https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/allegations-against-brett-kavanaugh-are-not-simply-he-said-she-ncna910771 Sent from my iPhone From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:24:47 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:24:47 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Seth Klarman Zionist deluxe Message-ID: https://mondoweiss.net/2018/09/klarman-abandoning-prominent/ As previously surmised, but even worse; this is the guy who has decided to give his money to Ds rather than Rs, not that he's any worse than Haim Saban or Steven Spielberg for that matter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:29:38 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 10:29:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Seth Klarman Zionist deluxe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shana tova… > On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:24 AM, David Green via Peace-discuss wrote: > > https://mondoweiss.net/2018/09/klarman-abandoning-prominent/ > > As previously surmised, but even worse; this is the guy who has decided to give his money to Ds rather than Rs, not that he's any worse than Haim Saban or Steven Spielberg for that matter. > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cgestabrook at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 19:21:51 2018 From: cgestabrook at gmail.com (C G Estabrook) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 14:21:51 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News from Neptune, 21 September 2018 Message-ID: <23BA28B4-780F-4EB8-A9C2-F823F8C4FBD4@gmail.com> News from Neptune #395 - "Bridging the Gap: No Trump Bids" Episode video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLnDex72ASA [J. B. Nicholson] Notes about items from the show follow. Matt Taibbi interviews Noam Chomsky https://taibbi.substack.com/p/preface-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky-the-fairway New York Times Leonhardt: "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is a myth https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/16/opinion/columnists/democrats-midterms-progressive-left-trump.html Jeffrey St. Clair's "Roaming Charges: the Chickenhawks Have Finally Come Back Home to Roost!" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21/roaming-charges-4/ Daniel Bessner's articles Jacobin articles should be linked here: https://www.jacobinmag.com/author/daniel-bessner On Dead Pundits Society show: RSS of show: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:292981343/sounds.rss Episode 64: The Deep, Deep State with Daniel Bessner: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/498307023-deadpundits-ep-64-the-deep-deep-state-w-daniel-bessner.mp3 Episode 65: A Socialist Foreign Policy with Daniel Bessner (teaser): http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/499206882-deadpundits-ep-65-a-socialist-foreign-policy-w-daniel-bessner-teaser.mp3 Recent opinion column in New York Times: What Does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Think About the South China Sea?: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/opinion/democratic-party-cortez-foreign-policy.html "The Crisis of Democracy" book PDF with text (so you can copy/paste quotes easily and accurately): https://archive.org/download/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf "The CIA Democrats" pointers courtesy of Karen Aram > An extraordinary number of former intelligence and military operatives from the CIA, Pentagon, National Security Council and State Department are seeking nomination as Democratic candidates for Congress in the 2018 midterm elections. The potential influx of military-intelligence personnel into the legislature has no precedent in US political history. Part 1 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/07/dems-m07.html Part 2 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/08/dems-m08.html Part 3 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/09/dems-m09.html Related: The CIA Democrats vs. Julian Assange: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/04/23/pers-a23.html CIA Democrat complains of political spying by Republicans: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/07/span-s07.html George Kennan's Memo Memo PPS23: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Memo_PPS23_by_George_Kennan Thomas More's "Utopia": Complete edition with notes in various formats: http://theopenutopia.org/full-text/introduction-open-utopia/ English translation: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2130 Audiobook: https://librivox.org/search?title=Utopia&author=More Michael Massing's "Fatal Discord: Erasmus, Luther, and the Fight for the Western Mind" ISBN-10: 0060517603 ISBN-13: 978-0060517601 Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 11/9"-related interviews on DemocracyNow.org : https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_v_donald_trump_in https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_are_we_going_to https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_democrats_made_fatal_mistake https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/19/michael_moore_senate_must_take_dr Louis Proyect's review of "Fahrenheit 11/9" https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21/moores-fahrenheit-11-9-entertaining-film-crappy-politics/ Regarding David's considering not voting and "Fahrenheit 11/9" reviews, consider Glenn Greenwald's latest for TheIntercept.com , a review of Moore's "Fahrenheit 11/9": https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/michael-moores-fahrenheit-119-aims-not-at-trump-but-at-those-who-created-the-conditions-that-led-to-his-rise/ > Moore quickly escapes the dreary and misleading “Democrat v. GOP” > framework that dominates cable news by trumpeting “the largest political > party in America”: those who refuse to vote. He uses this powerful > graphic to tell that story: > [See picture of general election figures for Democratic, Republican, and > non-voters.] > It’s remarkable how little attention is paid to non-voters given that, > as Moore rightly notes, they form America’s largest political faction. > Part of why they’re ignored is moralism: those who don’t vote deserve no > attention as they have only themselves to blame. > But the much most consequential factor is the danger for both parties > from delving too deeply into this subject. After all, voter apathy > arises when people conclude that their votes don’t change their lives, > that election outcomes improve nothing, that the small amount of time > spent waiting in line at a voting booth isn’t worth the effort because > of how inconsequential it is. What greater indictment of the two > political parties can one imagine than that? > One of the most illuminating pieces of reporting about the 2016 election > is also, not coincidentally, one of the most ignored: interviews by the > New York Times with white and African-American working-class voters in > Milwaukee who refused to vote and – even knowing that Trump won > Wisconsin, and thus the presidency, largely because of their decision – > don’t regret it. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They > never do anything for us anyway,” the article quotes an African-American > barber, justifying his decision not to vote in 2016 after voting twice > for Obama. > Moore develops the same point, even more powerfully, about his home > state of Michigan, which – like Wisconsin – Trump also won after Obama > won it twice. In one of the most powerful and devastating passages from > the film – indeed, of any political documentary seen in quite some time > – “Fahrenheit 11/9″ takes us in real-time through the indescribably > shameful water crisis of Flint, the criminal cover-up of it by GOP > Governor Rick Snyder, and the physical and emotional suffering endured > by its poor, voiceless, and overwhelmingly black residents. > After many months of abuse, of being lied to, of being poisoned, Flint > residents, in May, 2016, finally had a cause for hope: President Obama > announced that he would visit Flint to address the water crisis. As Air > Force One majestically lands, Flint residents rejoice, believing that > genuine concern, political salvation, and drinkable water had finally > arrived. > Exactly the opposite happened. Obama delivered a speech in which he not > only appeared to minimize, but to mock, concerns of Flint residents over > the lead levels in their water, capped off by a grotesquely cynical > political stunt where he flamboyantly insisted on having a glass of > filtered tap water that he then pretended to drink, but in fact only > used to wet his lips, ingesting none of it. > President Barack Obama appears to drink water as he speaks at Flint > Northwestern High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016, about > the ongoing water crisis. > [See picture of Obama fake-drinking Flint water at Flint Northwestern > High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016 as he lectures on > the ongoing water crisis.] > A friendly meeting with Gov. Snyder after that – during which Obama > repeated the same water stunt – provided the GOP state administration in > Michigan with ample Obama quotes to exploit to prove the problem was > fixed, and for Flint residents, it was the final insult. “When President > Obama came here,” an African-American community leader in Flint tells > Moore, “he was my President. When he left, he wasn’t.” > Like the unregretful non-voters of Milwaukee, the collapsed hope Obama > left in his wake as he departed Flint becomes a key metaphor in Moore’s > hands for understanding Trump’s rise. Moore suggests to John Podesta, > who seems to agree, that Hillary lost Michigan because, as in Wisconsin, > voters, in part after seeing what Obama did in Flint, concluded it was > no longer worth voting. As Moore narrates: > The autocrat, the strongman, only succeeds when the vast majority of the > population decides they’ve seen enough, and give up. . . . . The worst > thing that President Obama did was pave the way for Donald Trump. > Because Donald Trump did not just fall from the sky. The road to him was > decades in the making. > The long, painful, extraordinarily compelling journey through Flint is > accompanied by an equally illuminating immersion in West Virginia, one > that brings into further vivid clarity the misery, deprivation, and > repression that drove so many people – for good reason – away from the > political establishment and into the arms of anyone promising to destroy > it: from the 2008 version of Obama to Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein to > Donald Trump to abstaining entirely from voting. Michael Capuano and Ayanna Pressley Boston.com reports "Michael Capuano and Ayanna Pressley agree on most things. But not everything." https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2018/08/22/michael-capuano-ayanna-pressley-policy-differences > However, when it comes to the military involvement of American soldiers > overseas, Capuano is the one with the more resolute position. > As The Intercept recently reported[1], both candidates were asked by the > local anti-war group Massachusetts Peace Action if they supported ending > the country’s military involvement in Syria and Afghanistan. > Capuano simply checked[2] yes for both questions, noting that he > introduced a bill to forbid military action in Syria without > congressional approval, voted several times to withdraw from > Afghanistan, and was additionally part of a small group of lawmakers who > sued the Obama administration in 2011 over its military action in > Libya. > On the other hand, Pressley declined to provide a simple yes-or-no > answer on Syria and Afghanistan. In a more detailed answer, the city > councilor wrote that, even though she first looks to “exhaust all > diplomatic and non-military options,” the United States has a > “responsibility” to ending the two conflicts and creating stability in > the region. > “It would be irresponsible to foreclose any potential avenues to > achieving that goal,” Pressley wrote. [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/08/18/mike-capuano-ayanna-pressley-massachusetts-primary/ [2] http://masspeaceaction.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Capuano.MAPA_.candidate.questionnaire.pdf [3] https://www.politico.com/story/2011/06/lawmakers-sue-obama-over-libya-057032 [4] http://masspeaceaction.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Pressley.MAPA_.candidate.questionnaire.pdf -J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 22:42:41 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 17:42:41 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News from Neptune, 21 September 2018 In-Reply-To: <23BA28B4-780F-4EB8-A9C2-F823F8C4FBD4@gmail.com> References: <23BA28B4-780F-4EB8-A9C2-F823F8C4FBD4@gmail.com> Message-ID: I highly recommend this podcast with Daniel Bessner over the one I mentioned on the show; I meant to transcribe it at some point but never got around to it. It covers his book about Rand and the "defense intellectuals." The Nostalgia Trap in general is an excellent podcast for historians concerned with current affairs from a radical perspective; it's also available through the Baffler website: https://nostalgiatrap.libsyn.com/nostalgia-trap-episode-85-daniel-bessner On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 2:22 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss < peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > News from Neptune #395 - "Bridging the Gap: No Trump Bids" > Episode video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLnDex72ASA > > [J. B. Nicholson] Notes about items from the show follow. > > Matt Taibbi interviews Noam Chomsky > > https://taibbi.substack.com/p/preface-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky-the-fairway > > > New York Times Leonhardt: "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is a myth > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/16/opinion/columnists/democrats-midterms-progressive-left-trump.html > > > Jeffrey St. Clair's "Roaming Charges: the Chickenhawks Have Finally Come > Back Home to Roost!" > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21/roaming-charges-4/ > > > Daniel Bessner's articles > Jacobin articles should be linked here: > https://www.jacobinmag.com/author/daniel-bessner > > On Dead Pundits Society show: > RSS of show: > https://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:292981343/sounds.rss > Episode 64: The Deep, Deep State with Daniel Bessner: > http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/498307023-deadpundits-ep-64-the-deep-deep-state-w-daniel-bessner.mp3 > Episode 65: A Socialist Foreign Policy with Daniel Bessner (teaser): > http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/499206882-deadpundits-ep-65-a-socialist-foreign-policy-w-daniel-bessner-teaser.mp3 > > Recent opinion column in New York Times: > What Does Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Think About the South China Sea?: > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/opinion/democratic-party-cortez-foreign-policy.html > > > "The Crisis of Democracy" book > PDF with text (so you can copy/paste quotes easily and accurately): > https://archive.org/download/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf > > > "The CIA Democrats" pointers courtesy of Karen Aram > > An extraordinary number of former intelligence and military operatives > from the CIA, Pentagon, National Security Council and State Department are > seeking nomination as Democratic candidates for Congress in the 2018 > midterm elections. The potential influx of military-intelligence personnel > into the legislature has no precedent in US political history. > > Part 1 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/07/dems-m07.html > Part 2 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/08/dems-m08.html > Part 3 of 3: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/09/dems-m09.html > Related: > The CIA Democrats vs. Julian Assange: > https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/04/23/pers-a23.html > CIA Democrat complains of political spying by Republicans: > https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/07/span-s07.html > > > George Kennan's Memo > Memo PPS23: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Memo_PPS23_by_George_Kennan > > Thomas More's "Utopia": > Complete edition with notes in various formats: > http://theopenutopia.org/full-text/introduction-open-utopia/ > English translation: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2130 > Audiobook: https://librivox.org/search?title=Utopia&author=More > > > Michael Massing's "Fatal Discord: Erasmus, Luther, and the Fight for the > Western Mind" > ISBN-10: 0060517603 > ISBN-13: 978-0060517601 > > > Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 11/9"-related interviews on DemocracyNow.org: > https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_v_donald_trump_in > https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_are_we_going_to > > https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/21/michael_moore_democrats_made_fatal_mistake > https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/19/michael_moore_senate_must_take_dr > > > Louis Proyect's review of "Fahrenheit 11/9" > > https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21/moores-fahrenheit-11-9-entertaining-film-crappy-politics/ > > > Regarding David's considering not voting and "Fahrenheit 11/9" reviews, > consider Glenn Greenwald's latest for TheIntercept.com, a review of > Moore's "Fahrenheit 11/9": > > https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/michael-moores-fahrenheit-119-aims-not-at-trump-but-at-those-who-created-the-conditions-that-led-to-his-rise/ > > Moore quickly escapes the dreary and misleading “Democrat v. GOP” > framework that dominates cable news by trumpeting “the largest political > party in America”: those who refuse to vote. He uses this powerful > graphic to tell that story: > [See picture of general election figures for Democratic, Republican, and > non-voters.] > It’s remarkable how little attention is paid to non-voters given that, > as Moore rightly notes, they form America’s largest political faction. > Part of why they’re ignored is moralism: those who don’t vote deserve no > attention as they have only themselves to blame. > But the much most consequential factor is the danger for both parties > from delving too deeply into this subject. After all, voter apathy > arises when people conclude that their votes don’t change their lives, > that election outcomes improve nothing, that the small amount of time > spent waiting in line at a voting booth isn’t worth the effort because > of how inconsequential it is. What greater indictment of the two > political parties can one imagine than that? > One of the most illuminating pieces of reporting about the 2016 election > is also, not coincidentally, one of the most ignored: interviews by the > New York Times with white and African-American working-class voters in > Milwaukee who refused to vote and – even knowing that Trump won > Wisconsin, and thus the presidency, largely because of their decision – > don’t regret it. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They > never do anything for us anyway,” the article quotes an African-American > barber, justifying his decision not to vote in 2016 after voting twice > for Obama. > Moore develops the same point, even more powerfully, about his home > state of Michigan, which – like Wisconsin – Trump also won after Obama > won it twice. In one of the most powerful and devastating passages from > the film – indeed, of any political documentary seen in quite some time > – “Fahrenheit 11/9″ takes us in real-time through the indescribably > shameful water crisis of Flint, the criminal cover-up of it by GOP > Governor Rick Snyder, and the physical and emotional suffering endured > by its poor, voiceless, and overwhelmingly black residents. > After many months of abuse, of being lied to, of being poisoned, Flint > residents, in May, 2016, finally had a cause for hope: President Obama > announced that he would visit Flint to address the water crisis. As Air > Force One majestically lands, Flint residents rejoice, believing that > genuine concern, political salvation, and drinkable water had finally > arrived. > Exactly the opposite happened. Obama delivered a speech in which he not > only appeared to minimize, but to mock, concerns of Flint residents over > the lead levels in their water, capped off by a grotesquely cynical > political stunt where he flamboyantly insisted on having a glass of > filtered tap water that he then pretended to drink, but in fact only > used to wet his lips, ingesting none of it. > President Barack Obama appears to drink water as he speaks at Flint > Northwestern High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016, about > the ongoing water crisis. > [See picture of Obama fake-drinking Flint water at Flint Northwestern > High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016 as he lectures on > the ongoing water crisis.] > A friendly meeting with Gov. Snyder after that – during which Obama > repeated the same water stunt – provided the GOP state administration in > Michigan with ample Obama quotes to exploit to prove the problem was > fixed, and for Flint residents, it was the final insult. “When President > Obama came here,” an African-American community leader in Flint tells > Moore, “he was my President. When he left, he wasn’t.” > Like the unregretful non-voters of Milwaukee, the collapsed hope Obama > left in his wake as he departed Flint becomes a key metaphor in Moore’s > hands for understanding Trump’s rise. Moore suggests to John Podesta, > who seems to agree, that Hillary lost Michigan because, as in Wisconsin, > voters, in part after seeing what Obama did in Flint, concluded it was > no longer worth voting. As Moore narrates: > The autocrat, the strongman, only succeeds when the vast majority of the > population decides they’ve seen enough, and give up. . . . . The worst > thing that President Obama did was pave the way for Donald Trump. > Because Donald Trump did not just fall from the sky. The road to him was > decades in the making. > The long, painful, extraordinarily compelling journey through Flint is > accompanied by an equally illuminating immersion in West Virginia, one > that brings into further vivid clarity the misery, deprivation, and > repression that drove so many people – for good reason – away from the > political establishment and into the arms of anyone promising to destroy > it: from the 2008 version of Obama to Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein to > Donald Trump to abstaining entirely from voting. > > > Michael Capuano and Ayanna Pressley > > Boston.com reports "Michael Capuano and Ayanna Pressley agree on most > things. But not everything." > > https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2018/08/22/michael-capuano-ayanna-pressley-policy-differences > > However, when it comes to the military involvement of American soldiers > overseas, Capuano is the one with the more resolute position. > As The Intercept recently reported[1], both candidates were asked by the > local anti-war group Massachusetts Peace Action if they supported ending > the country’s military involvement in Syria and Afghanistan. > Capuano simply checked[2] yes for both questions, noting that he > introduced a bill to forbid military action in Syria without > congressional approval, voted several times to withdraw from > Afghanistan, and was additionally part of a small group of lawmakers who > sued the Obama administration in 2011 over its military action in > Libya. > On the other hand, Pressley declined to provide a simple yes-or-no > answer on Syria and Afghanistan. In a more detailed answer, the city > councilor wrote that, even though she first looks to “exhaust all > diplomatic and non-military options,” the United States has a > “responsibility” to ending the two conflicts and creating stability in > the region. > “It would be irresponsible to foreclose any potential avenues to > achieving that goal,” Pressley wrote. > > > [1] > https://theintercept.com/2018/08/18/mike-capuano-ayanna-pressley-massachusetts-primary/ > [2] > http://masspeaceaction.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Capuano.MAPA_.candidate.questionnaire.pdf > [3] > https://www.politico.com/story/2011/06/lawmakers-sue-obama-over-libya-057032 > [4] > http://masspeaceaction.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Pressley.MAPA_.candidate.questionnaire.pdf > > -J > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Mon Sep 24 13:43:43 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:43:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fahrenheit 11/9-Filmmaker Michael Moore clings to the Democratic Party Message-ID: <002d01d4540c$9cc146c0$d643d440$@comcast.net> Fahrenheit 11/9-Filmmaker Michael Moore clings to the Democratic Party By David Walsh 21 September 2018 http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/21/fahr-s21.html https://www.wsws.org/asset/3dcb8992-393c-49ee-bbec-6b345f9ccae8/image.jpg Fahrenheit 11/9-Filmmaker Michael Moore clings to the ... Michael Moore has a long history as a documentary filmmaker (Roger & Me, Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11, Capitalism: A Love Story) and a left-liberal supporter of the Democratic Party. His ... www.wsws.org Michael Moore has a long history as a documentary filmmaker (Roger & Me, Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11, Capitalism: A Love Story) and a left-liberal supporter of the Democratic Party. His new film Fahrenheit 11/9 is an attempt to explain how the election of Donald Trump-a reactionary, know-nothing billionaire-as president of the United States was possible and how the American population might extricate itself from the crisis produced by his coming to power. If Moore could provide serious and convincing answers to these vexing and pressing problems, and perhaps indicate a way out of the present situation, he would be rendering an enormous political and moral service. Many of the issues he touches upon-the fascistic character of the Trump White House, the sharp turn to the right by the Democratic Party leadership, the Flint, Michigan water disaster, the depths of poverty in America, the epidemic of school shootings, the cruelty of the government's treatment of immigrants, the opioid crisis, vast social inequality-are strong arguments for workers to reject the existing economic and political system and adopt a socialist program and outlook. However, despite various criticisms of prominent Democrats-among them Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama-and the American liberal establishment, including the New York Times, Moore urges his viewers to retain-or perhaps regain-confidence in the Democratic Party and "to save," as he admits, "the America [i.e., the benevolent American capitalism] we've never had." http://www.wsws.org/asset/7fae89f1-a725-454c-8e7b-437a651b36eB/image.jpg?ren dition=image480Donald Trump projected on the Empire State Building in Fahrenheit 11/9 In interviews, Moore stresses that Fahrenheit 11/9 (a play on the title of his 2004 film, Fahrenheit 9/11, and the date-November 9, 2016-on which Trump was declared the winner of the presidential election) is designed to help obtain votes for the Democrats in the midterm elections in November. He has told audiences at premieres of the new film that the upcoming vote may be the "last chance" to oppose Trump. Moore warns of the direst consequences, "If he isn't stopped, now, in the mid-terms, with impeachment, whatever it takes ." (Deadline Hollywood). He commented on Real Time with Bill Maher: "I'm finishing my movie and getting it out before the midterms because I want millions of people to get to the polls. We're going to bring Trump down." The documentary maker advances a pitiful and misnamed handful of "progressive" Democratic candidates and politicians, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in New York, Rashida Tlaib in Michigan and Richard Ojeda in West Virginia, as the basis for the false and reactionary contention, in the words of one of his interviewees, that the "left" should not "give up" on the Democratic Party, one of America's two big-business parties, but "take it over." Fahrenheit 11/9 proceeds in Moore's customary impressionistic and intellectually careless manner, often praised as non-elitist and "populist." The film takes note of the smugness of the Clinton camp on election eve in November 2016 and the certainty of the American media punditry in general that Trump did not stand a chance of victory. Once the unthinkable happens and the Republican candidate is declared the winner at 2:29 a.m. on "11/9," Moore asks, "How the f--- did this happen?" With legitimate sarcasm, Moore first suggests it must have been the work of "the Russians" and the FBI's James Comey (whose October 28 letter announced that the law enforcement agency was reopening its investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server as Secretary of State). By way of a side note: the little time Fahrenheit 11/9 devotes to the anti-Russian and #MeToo campaigns, although it vaguely endorses both, indicates that Moore is well aware of how little interest the broader public has in these upper middle class obsessions. After a brief excursion into Trump's quasi-criminal history, his psychological perversity and the demagogic character of his election campaign, Moore turns abruptly to the Flint water crisis. He charges Republican governor Rick Snyder with poisoning the city's citizens through the decision to draw water in April 2014 from the horribly polluted Flint River. A native of the area, Moore speaks forcefully about the tragic situation and interviews Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, the pediatrician and public health advocate, in regard to the dire effect of lead on children. http://www.wsws.org/asset/548c7ae8-801a-421c-8881-34c98b11b51K/image.jpg?ren dition=image480Fahrenheit 11/9 Moore, however, presents the water crisis as first and foremost a racial question, in contradiction to elementary demographics. The city's population is approximately 57 percent African American and 37 percent white, and the scenes of protests in Fahrenheit 11/9 reveal crowds of various ethnicities. The logic of the false claim flows from Moore's general orientation and participation in identity politics circles, where race and gender, not social class, are treated as the categories around which society revolves. Moore sharply condemns Snyder and stages various stunts to embarrass the governor, for example, hosing the grounds of the latter's mansion with "Flint water" and briefly attempting to carry out a citizen's arrest of Snyder at the Michigan state capitol. But the filmmaker omits entirely the critical role of Democratic Party officials, including State Treasurer Andy Dillon, the mayor of Flint and members of its City Council, as well as Obama appointees in the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Later, Moore takes Obama to task for his widely unpopular May 2016 appearance in Flint, where the president sipped from a glass of water and arrogantly dismissed residents' concern with the comment, "The kids will be just fine." However, Moore seems primarily concerned with the harmful impact Obama's performance had on voter turnout in Flint-and thus Democratic Party prospects-in November of that year. The filmmaker has his ear close enough to the ground to know that a mass radicalization is under way in America. He comments that the US, in fact, is a "leftist country," offering a series of poll figures on various issues to back up his contention. Fahrenheit 11/9 also takes note of the increased popularity of socialism. "Why is this not reflected" in the political process, he asks? http://www.wsws.org/asset/e4ad5484-156a-4bad-afed-bc6029d3a23A/image.jpg?ren dition=image480Michael Moore and Jared Kushner in 2007 Moore's response is superficial and sidesteps the central questions. He takes note of the obvious shift to the right by the Democratic Party hierarchy. Proceeding farther along this "left" path, he suggests that the Trump presidency has been "decades in the making" and points to the right-wing records of both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. He argues that Trump "outflanked" Hillary Clinton to the left on various social issues and war during the 2016 presidential campaign, but observes that, in any event, nonvoters, 100 million of them, were the single biggest bloc on Election Day. Moore's voiceover continues: "As the Democrats became more like the Republicans, so did the entire liberal establishment, led by the paper of record [the New York Times ]: catering to Big Business, minimizing social movements like Occupy Wall Street and cheerleading every war we got into, while also trying to dictate elections." Fahrenheit 11/9 gives far too much credit to the individual figures of Bill Clinton and Obama, whose administrations not only pushed the Democratic Party to the right but reflected the shift of the entire political establishment. The source of the reactionary turn by both big-business parties lies in the objective crisis of American and global capitalism. The Republicans and Democrats have tactical differences and divergent political styles, but the American ruling class is united in its determination to impose the consequences of the intractable crisis on both its economic rivals and "allies" abroad and the working population at home. The implication of Moore's viewpoint is that the Democratic Party's decades-long repudiation of its reformist-New Deal past is a mere policy choice carried out by misguided individuals that can be corrected by pressure exerted from below. This is a reactionary and utopian fantasy. In his voiceover, Moore argues that Obama "paved the way" for Trump and offers a partial list of the Obama Administration's "accomplishments": the locking up of whistle-blowers, the murderous drone program, the deportation of a record number of immigrants, enhanced surveillance, endless wars, etc. Why doesn't the filmmaker call a halt right there? Why should any worker or anyone with a conscience support a party capable of such filthy acts? But Moore, like the entire liberal-left, can stomach anything by now. http://www.wsws.org/asset/47635b99-9365-44e8-af05-1a373338345I/image.jpg?ren dition=image480Donald Trump in Fahrenheit 11/9 Like the man he supported in early 2016, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the filmmaker denounced Hillary Clinton as a warmonger in the pocket of Wall Street during the Democratic primaries, then turned around and endorsed her-helping, in fact, to channel popular anger and frustration behind Trump! Moore incorporates Sanders' miserable endorsement of Clinton at the Democratic National Convention into his film, without comment. What comment could he offer, having chosen the same abject route? Fahrenheit 11/9 wanders on. It contains images of the important West Virginia teachers' strike and the March For Our Lives against gun violence organized by high school students. The scenes of social devastation in West Virginia are telling and Moore comments, "There are multiple Americas." However, his interview with Richard Ojeda, Democratic Party politician, West Virginia State Senator and candidate for Congress, is another sham. Ojeda is a capitalist politician and former Army officer, who boasts on his website about the years he spent "fighting the war on terror" and serving "alongside the bravest men and women I have ever met." Needless to say, Moore doesn't question Ojeda about the bloody US-led wars the filmmaker claims to oppose. In a move that has aroused controversy, Moore, toward the end of Fahrenheit 11/9, compares Trump to German fascist dictator Adolf Hitler and implies that the former may be preparing some fake terrorist incident, along the lines of the February 1933 Reichstag Fire, that will enable him to proclaim himself "president for life." There are great risks in the present situation and Trump's various references to staying in the White House after his term of office has expired are not to be taken lightly. American "democracy" is largely in ruins and the ruling class is moving inexorably in the direction of authoritarian rule. But this is not Trump's innovation. The malignant levels of social inequality are incompatible with anything resembling democratic norms and the ruling elite as a whole is preparing to fight it out physically with the working class. http://www.wsws.org/asset/dcd10535-e969-455c-952c-a49850967caC/image.jpg?ren dition=image480Michael Moore and Parkland shooting survivor David Hogg But Moore offers no serious insight into the emergence of Nazism, and in particular the roles performed by the Social Democratic and Stalinist Communist parties in Germany, who paralyzed the masses and opened the door for Hitler. To do so would point toward a fundamental truth about the present American political situation that Moore is either blind to or consciously seeks to suppress: that the greatest danger to the working class is represented by its subordination to the Democratic Party, whose relentlessly pro-corporate and right-wing policies discourage and demoralize wide layers of the population and propel a portion of them into the arms of Trump and the ultra-right. In reality, Moore is raising the specter of Hitlerism principally to frighten his audience into voting for the Democrats in November, a cheap and tawdry tactic, which can only cause further confusion and disorientation. As we have noted before, the filmmaker's unserious and pragmatic approach is typical "of American 'radical' petty bourgeois thinking, renowned for its inconsistency, lack of principle and disdain for history." Fahrenheit 11/9 is Moore's attempt to make a "leftist" film. He does this under the Republicans. He was essentially silent for 8 years under Obama, whose victory in November 2008 he greeted in this fashion: "Who among us is not at a loss for words? Tears pour out. Tears of joy. Tears of relief. A stunning, whopping landslide of hope in a time of deep despair." The "hope" now Moore expresses near the conclusion of the work that we might "get rid of the whole rotten system that gave us Donald Trump" is empty and meaningless, in so far as he continues to support one of the principalprops of that "rotten system," the Democratic Party. Whatever occasional insights and striking imagery it might offer, Fahrenheit 11/9 is false and dishonest at its core. Those who want to fight and defeat the capitalist system should accordingly beware. * Avatar solerso . 21 hours ago Speaking of the democratic party, I noticed yesterday that Hillary Clinton has (unofficially) begun her re-campaign for the presidency, appearing on the Rachel Maddow fake-news program to discuss her favorite bourgeois democrat meme - how "the Russians" stole the election from her (and handed the office to their stooge Donald Trump) . Look for her to appear on television more and more often now - to avoid actually seeing it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5975 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1377 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Mon Sep 24 15:21:46 2018 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:21:46 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?gb2312?b?R2xlbm4gR3JlZW53YWxkIC0gTWljaGFlbCBN?= =?gb2312?b?b29yZaGvcyChsEZhaHJlbmhlaXQgMTEvOaGxIEFpbXMgTm90IGF0?= =?gb2312?b?IFRydW1wIEJ1dCBhdCBUaG9zZSBXaG8gQ3JlYXRlZCB0aGUgQ29u?= =?gb2312?b?ZGl0aW9ucyBUaGF0IExlZCB0byBIaXMgUmlzZQ==?= Message-ID: <004e01d4541a$4f147290$ed3d57b0$@comcast.net> Another review, this time from Glen Greenwald. I am now even more compelled to see the film. David J. �� Moore could have easily made a film that just channeled and fueled standard anti-Trump fears and animus and �C like the others who are doing that �C made lots of money, been widely hailed, and won lots of accolades. He chose instead to dig deeper, to be more honest, to take the harder route, and deserves real credit for that. He did that, it seems clear, because he knows that the only way to move forward is not just to reject right-wing demagoguery but also the sham that masquerades as its #Resistance. As Moore himself put it: ��sometimes it takes a Donald Trump to get us to realize that we have to get rid of the whole rotten system that gave us Trump.�� That��s exactly the truth that the guardians of that ��whole rotten system�� want most to conceal. Moore��s film is devoted, at its core, to unearthing it. That��s why, despite its flaws, some of them serious ones, the film deserves wide attention and discussion among everyone across the political spectrum. �� Michael Moore��s ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� Aims Not at Trump But at Those Who Created the Conditions That Led to His Rise Glenn Greenwald September 21 2018, 12:08 p.m. 2017 AP YEAR END PHOTOS - Donald Trump is sworn in as the 45th president of the United States by Chief Justice John Roberts, as Melania Trump and his family looks on during the 58th Presidential Inauguration at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, on Jan. 20, 2017. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky) Donald Trump is sworn in as the 45th president of the United States by Chief Justice John Roberts during the 58th Presidential Inauguration at the U.S. Capitol in Washington D.C., on Jan. 20, 2017. Photo: Patrick Semansky/AP ��Fahrenheit 11/9,�� the title of Michael Moore��s new film that opens today in theaters, is an obvious play on the title of his wildly profitable Bush-era ��Fahrenheit 9/11,�� but also a reference to the date of Donald J. Trump��s 2016 election victory. Despite that, Trump himself is a secondary figure in Moore��s film, which is far more focused on the far more relevant and interesting questions of what �C and, critically, who �C created the climate in which someone like Trump could occupy the Oval Office. For that reason alone, Moore��s film is highly worthwhile regardless of where one falls on the political spectrum. The single most significant defect in U.S. political discourse is the monomaniacal focus on Trump himself, as though he is the cause �C rather than the by-product and symptom �C of decades-old systemic American pathologies. Personalizing and isolating Trump as the principal, even singular, source of political evil is obfuscating and thus deceitful. By effect, if not design, it distracts the population��s attention away from the actual architects of their plight. This now-dominant framework misleads people into the nationalistic myth �C at once both frightening and comforting �C that prior to 2016��s ��Fahrenheit 11/9,�� the U.S., though quite imperfect and saddled with ��flaws,�� was nonetheless a fundamentally kind, benevolent, equitable and healthy democracy, one which, by aspiration if not always in action, welcomed immigrants, embraced diversity, strove for greater economic equality, sought to defend human rights against assaults by the world��s tyrants, was governed by the sturdy rule of law rather than the arbitrary whims of rulers, elected fundamentally decent even if ideologically misguided men to the White House, and gradually expanded rather than sadistically abolished opportunity for the world��s neediest. But suddenly, teaches this fairy tale as ominous music plays in the background, a villain unlike any we had previously known invaded our idyllic land, vandalized our sacred public spaces, degraded our admired halls of power, threatened our collective values. It was only upon Trump��s assumption of power that the nation��s noble aspirations were repudiated in favor of a far darker and more sinister vision, one wholly alien to ��Who We Are��: a profoundly ��un-American�� tapestry of plutocracy, kleptocracy, autocracy, xenophobia, racism, elite lawlessness, indifference and even aggressive cruelty toward the most vulnerable and marginalized. This myth is not just false but self-evidently so. Yet it persists, and thrives, because it serves so many powerful interests at once. Most importantly, it exonerates, empowers, and elevates the pre-Trump ruling class, now recast as heroic leaders of the #Resistance and nostalgic symbols of America��s pre-11/9 Goodness. ellen-instagram-1537551468 Screenshot: The Intercept The lie-fueled destruction of Vietnam and Iraq, the worldwide torture regime, the 2008 financial collapse and subsequent bailout and protection of those responsible for it, the foreign kidnapping and domestic rounding up of Muslims, the record-setting Obama-era deportations and whistleblower prosecutions, the obliteration of Yemen and Libya, the embrace of Mubarak, Sisi, and Saudi despots, the years of bipartisan subservience to Wall Street at everyone else��s expense, the full-scale immunity vested on all the elites responsible for all those crimes �C it��s all blissfully washed away as we unite to commemorate the core decency of America as George Bush gently hands a piece of candy to Michelle Obama at the funeral of the American War Hero and Trump-opponent-in-words John S. McCain, or as hundreds of thousands of us re-tweet the latest bromide of Americana from the leaders of America�� s most insidious security state, spy and police agencies. Beyond nationalistic myth-building, there are substantial commercial, political and reputational benefits to this Trump-centered mythology. An obsessive fixation on Trump has single-handedly saved an entire partisan cable news network from extinction, converting its once ratings-starved, close-to-being-fired prime-time hosts into major celebrities with contracts so obscenely lucrative as to produce envy among most professional athletes or Hollywood stars. Resistance grifters exploit fears of Trump to build massive social media followings that are easily converted into profit from well-meaning, manipulated dupes. One rickety, unhinged, rant-filled, speculation-driven Trump book after the next dominates the best-seller lists, enriching charlatans and publishing companies alike: the more conspiratorial, the better. Anti-Trump mania is big business, and �C as the record-shattering first-week sales of Bob Woodward��s new Trump book demonstrates �C there is no end in sight to this profiteering. All of this is historical revisionism in its crudest and most malevolent form. It��s intended to heap most if not all blame for systemic, enduring, entrenched suffering across the country onto a single personality who wielded no political power until 18 months ago. In doing so, it averts everyone��s eyes away from the real culprits: the governors, both titled and untitled, of the establishment ruling class, who for decades have exercised largely unchecked power �C immune even from election outcomes �C and, in many senses, still do. The message is as clear as the beneficial outcomes: Just look only at Trump. Keep your eyes fixated on him. Direct all your suffering, deprivations, fears, resentments, anger and energy to him and him alone. By doing so, you��ll forget about us �C except that we��ll join you in your Trump-centered crusade, even lead you in it, and you will learn again to love us: the real authors of your misery. The overriding value of ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� is that it avoids �C in fact, aggressively rejects �C this ahistorical manipulation. Moore dutifully devotes a few minutes at the start of his film to Trump��s rise, and then asks the question that dominates the rest of it, the one the political and media establishment has steadfastly avoided examining except in the most superficial and self-protective ways: ��how the fuck did this happen��? Knowing that no political work can be commercially successful on a large-scale without affirming Resistance clich��s, Moore dutifully complies, but only with the most cursory and fleeting gestures: literally 5 seconds in the film are devoted to assigning blame for Hillary��s loss to Putin and Comey. With that duty discharged, he sets his sights on his real targets: the U.S. political establishment that is ensconced within both parties, along with the financial elites who own and control both of them for their own ends. Moore quickly escapes the dreary and misleading ��Democrat v. GOP�� framework that dominates cable news by trumpeting ��the largest political party in America��: those who refuse to vote. He uses this powerful graphic to tell that story: https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2018/09/moore1-1537440679. png?auto=compress%2Cformat&q=90 It��s remarkable how little attention is paid to non-voters given that, as Moore rightly notes, they form America��s largest political faction. Part of why they��re ignored is moralism: those who don��t vote deserve no attention as they have only themselves to blame. But the much more consequential factor is the danger for both parties from delving too deeply into this subject. After all, voter apathy arises when people conclude that their votes don��t change their lives, that election outcomes improve nothing, that the small amount of time spent waiting in line at a voting booth isn��t worth the effort because of how inconsequential it is. What greater indictment of the two political parties can one imagine than that? One of the most illuminating pieces of reporting about the 2016 election is also, not coincidentally, one of the most ignored: interviews by the New York Times with white and African-American working-class voters in Milwaukee who refused to vote and �C even knowing that Trump won Wisconsin, and thus the presidency, largely because of their decision �C don��t regret it. ��Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway,�� the article quotes an African-American barber, justifying his decision not to vote in 2016 after voting twice for Obama. Moore develops the same point, even more powerfully, about his home state of Michigan, which �C like Wisconsin �C Trump also won after Obama won it twice. In one of the most powerful and devastating passages from the film �C indeed, of any political documentary seen in quite some time �C ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� takes us in real-time through the indescribably shameful water crisis of Flint, the criminal cover-up of it by GOP Governor Rick Snyder, and the physical and emotional suffering endured by its poor, voiceless, and overwhelmingly black residents. After many months of abuse, of being lied to, of being poisoned, Flint residents, in May, 2016, finally had a cause for hope: President Obama announced that he would visit Flint to address the water crisis. As Air Force One majestically lands, Flint residents rejoice, believing that genuine concern, political salvation, and drinkable water had finally arrived. Exactly the opposite happened. Obama delivered a speech in which he not only appeared to minimize, but to mock, concerns of Flint residents over the lead levels in their water, capped off by a grotesquely cynical political stunt where he flamboyantly insisted on having a glass of filtered tap water that he then pretended to drink, but in fact only used to wet his lips, ingesting none of it. President Barack Obama drinks water as he speaks at Flint Northwestern High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016, about the ongoing water crisis. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster) President Barack Obama appears to drink water as he speaks at Flint Northwestern High School in Flint, Mich., Wednesday, May 4, 2016, about the ongoing water crisis. Photo: Carolyn Kaster/AP A friendly meeting with Gov. Snyder after that �C during which Obama repeated the same water stunt �C provided the GOP state administration in Michigan with ample Obama quotes to exploit to prove the problem was fixed, and for Flint residents, it was the final insult. ��When President Obama came here,�� an African-American community leader in Flint tells Moore, ��he was my President. When he left, he wasn��t.�� Like the unregretful non-voters of Milwaukee, the collapsed hope Obama left in his wake as he departed Flint becomes a key metaphor in Moore��s hands for understanding Trump��s rise. Moore suggests to John Podesta, who seems to agree, that Hillary lost Michigan because, as in Wisconsin, voters, in part after seeing what Obama did in Flint, concluded it was no longer worth voting. As Moore narrates: The autocrat, the strongman, only succeeds when the vast majority of the population decides they��ve seen enough, and give up. . . . . The worst thing that President Obama did was pave the way for Donald Trump. Because Donald Trump did not just fall from the sky. The road to him was decades in the making. The long, painful, extraordinarily compelling journey through Flint is accompanied by an equally illuminating immersion in West Virginia, one that brings into further vivid clarity the misery, deprivation, and repression that drove so many people �C for good reason �C away from the political establishment and into the arms of anyone promising to destroy it: from the 2008 version of Obama to Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein to Donald Trump to abstaining entirely from voting. We meet the teachers who led the inspiring state-wide strike, some of whom are paid so little that they are on food stamps. We hear how their own union leaders tried (and failed) first to prevent the strike, then prematurely tried (and failed) to end it with trivial concessions. We meet Richard Ojeda, an Iraq and Afghanistan War veteran, Democratic State Senator, and current Congressional candidate, who tells Moore: ��Our town is dying. One out of every four homes is in a dilapidated state . . . . I can take you five minutes from here and show you where our kids have it worse than the kids I saw in Iraq and Afghanistan.�� Needless to say, all of that began and took root long before Donald Trump descended the Trump Tower escalator in 2015. To Moore��s credit, virtually no powerful U.S. factions escape indictment in ��Fahrenheit 11/9.�� The villains of Flint and West Virginia are two Republican governors. But their accomplices, every step of the way, are Democrats. This, Moore ultimately argues, is precisely why people had lost faith in the ability of elections generally, and the Democratic Party specifically, to improve their lives. And in stark and impressive contrast to the endless intra-Democrat war over the primacy of race versus class, Moore adeptly demonstrates that the overwhelmingly African-American population of Flint and the largely white impoverished West Virginians have far more in common than they have differences: from the methods of their repression to those responsible for it. ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� does not shy away from, but unflinchingly confronts, the questions of race and class in America and ultimately concludes �C and proves �C that they are inextricably intertwined, that a discussion of (and solution to) one is impossible without a discussion of (and solution to) the other. No examination of voter apathy and the perceived irrelevance of elections would be complete without an ample study of the 2016 Democratic Party primary process that led to Hillary Clinton��s ultimately doomed nomination. And this is another area where Moore excels. Focusing on one little-known but amazing fact �C that Bernie Sanders won all 55 counties over Clinton in the West Virginia primary, beating her by 16 points in a state where she crushed Obama in 2008, yet, at the Democratic Convention, somehow ended up with fewer delegates than she received �C Moore interviews a Sanders supporter in West Virginia about the message this bizarre discrepancy sent. Moore asks: ��This just tells people to stay home?�� The voter replies: ��I think so.�� Moore offers his own conclusion through narration: ��When the people are continually told that their vote doesn��t count, that it doesn��t matter, and they end up believing that, the loss of faith in our democracy becomes our deathknell.�� With all of this harrowing and depressing evidence compiled, it becomes easier and easier to understand why Americans are either receptive to anyone vowing to dismantle rather than uphold the system they have rightly come to despise, or just abstain altogether. And it becomes even easier to understand why the guardians of that system view Trump as the most valuable weapon they could have ever imagined wielding: one that allows them to direct everyone��s attention away from the systemic damage they have wrought for decades. Broadly speaking, there are three kinds of political films. There are those whose filmmaker fully shares your political outlook, mentality and ideology, and thus produces a film that, in each scene, validates and strengthens your views. There are those by filmmakers whose politics are so anathema to yours that you find no value in the film and are only repelled by it. Then there are those that do a combination of all those things, causing you to love parts, hate other parts, and feel unsure about the rest. Without doubt, ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� falls into the latter category. It��s literally impossible to imagine someone who would love, or hate, all of the scenes and messages of this film. Indeed, for all the praise I just heaped on it, there were several parts I found banal, meandering, misguided and, in one case, downright loathsome: a lurid, pointless, reckless, and deeply offensive digression into the long-standing, adolescent #Resistance theme that Trump wants to have sex with, if he has not in fact already had sex with, his own daughter, Ivanka. What makes the inclusion of this trash all the more tragic is that it comes very near the beginning of the film, and thus will almost certainly repel �C for good reasons �C large numbers of people, including more reluctant and open-minded Trump supporters, who would be otherwise quite receptive to the important parts of the film that constitute its crux. Then there is the last 20 minutes, devoted to a direct comparison between Trump and Hitler. I am not someone who opposes the use of Nazism as a window for understanding contemporary political developments. To the contrary, I�� ve written previously about how anti-intellectual and dangerous is the now-standard internet decree (inaccurately referred to as Godwin��s Law) that Nazi comparisons are and should be off-limits. As the Nuremberg prosecutors (one of whom appears in the film) themselves pointed out during the post-war trial of Nazis: those tribunals were not primarily about punishing war criminals but about establishing principles to prevent future occurrences. There are real and substantive lessons to be drawn from the rise of Hitler when it comes to understanding the ascension of contemporary global movements of authoritarianism, and this last part of ��Fahrenheit 11/9�� features some of those in a reasonably responsible and informative manner. Ultimately, though, this last part of the film is marred by cheap and manipulative stunts, the worst of which is combining video of a Hitler speech overlaid with audio of a Trump speech, with no real effort made to justify this equation. Comparing any political figure to someone who oversaw the genocide of millions of human beings requires great care, sensitivity, and intellectual sophistication, and there is sadly little of that in Moore��s invocation (which at times feels like exploitation) of Nazism. There are, without doubt, people who will most love the exact parts of the film I most disliked. And those same people will likely hate many of the parts I found most compelling. But that��s precisely why Moore��s film is so worth your time no matter your ideology, so worth enduring even the parts that you will find disagreeable or even infuriating. Because �C in contrast to the endless armies of cable news hosts, Twitter pundits, #Resistance grifters, and party operatives, all of whom are vested due to self-interest in perpetuating the same deceitful, simple-minded and obfuscating narrative �C Moore, for most of this film, is at least trying. And what he��s trying is of unparalleled importance: not to take the cheap route of exclusively denouncing Trump but to take the more complicated, challenging, and productive route of understanding who and what created the climate in which Trump could thrive. Embedded in the instruction of those who want to you focus exclusively on Trump is an insidious and toxic message: namely, removing Trump will cure, or at least mitigate, the acute threats he poses. That is a fraud, and Moore knows it. Unless and until the roots of these pathologies are identified and addressed, we are certain to have more Trumps: in fact, more effective and more dangerous Trumps, along with more potent Dutertes, and more Brexits, and more Bolsonaros and more LePens. Moore could have easily made a film that just channeled and fueled standard anti-Trump fears and animus and �C like the others who are doing that �C made lots of money, been widely hailed, and won lots of accolades. He chose instead to dig deeper, to be more honest, to take the harder route, and deserves real credit for that. He did that, it seems clear, because he knows that the only way to move forward is not just to reject right-wing demagoguery but also the sham that masquerades as its #Resistance. As Moore himself put it: ��sometimes it takes a Donald Trump to get us to realize that we have to get rid of the whole rotten system that gave us Trump.�� That��s exactly the truth that the guardians of that ��whole rotten system�� want most to conceal. Moore��s film is devoted, at its core, to unearthing it. That��s why, despite its flaws, some of them serious ones, the film deserves wide attention and discussion among everyone across the political spectrum. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 15:26:01 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:26:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] News of the War Against Jeremy Corbyn Message-ID: *PAJU (Palestinian and Jewish Unity) # 919 September 21st, 2018* News of the War Against Jeremy Corbyn by Thierry Labica In recent months, the intense war waged against the left-wing leadership of the British Labour Party over the last three years, has been on the anti-Semitism front, which Jeremy Corbyn is now supposed to have unleashed upon British society as a whole. The three British Jewish newspapers, the *Jewish Chronicle*, the *Jewish News* and the *Jewish Telegraph*, published a joint editorial announcing that a government led by Jeremy Corbyn would represent nothing less than an existential threat to the Jews of Britain, meaning for all intent and purpose, that condemnation of the policy of the State of Israel invariably means hostility to Jews. The folly of this kind of imputation is not new, and it raises the considerable risk of treating the horror of Nazi persecution and extermination with opportunism and levity. It is further aggravated by the chronic amalgam that would make all Jews, wherever they are, de facto accountable for an Israeli annexationist policy under Trumpist protection. The recent sequence, launched in March 2018, led to the focus on the adoption, in the British Labour Party's rules of procedure, of the definition of anti-Semitism formulated in a working paper of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA). The right-wing of the Labour Party demanded the adoption in its entirety and, therefore, the inclusion of examples of manifestations of anti-Semitism that would effectively constitute criticism of Israeli policy and of the Zionist project, despite the controversial adoption of Israel’s Nation-State of the Jewish People Law, the annexations and massacres against the population of Gaza, among others. After weeks of pressure and blackmail of an exceptional virulence, relying on ever more feverish speculations over such and such a phrase, tweet or photo, the corpus is decidedly meager; the National Executive Committee of the Labor Party, the majority of whom nevertheless Jeremy Corbyn, finally adopted the IHRA definition in its entirety on September 4, 2018. The bottom line is simple, the possibility, now very real, that one of the major powers in the world may witness a supporter of the campaign for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) brought to power, is a nightmare for Israel’s leadership and its various supporters and allies. Contrary to what some of the French press have reported in recent days, it is not a controversy over support for anti-Semitism that has wracked the Labour Party. Quite the opposite. A small, unconditionally pro-Zionist faction of the Labour Party's parliamentary group has been in a panic since the July 2018 polls gave Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party a four to five point lead over the Conservatives. Their deep anxiety is no longer about losing the elections, but rather, winning them. The smear campaign of an industrial proportion against the Labour Left, with the very active collaboration of the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and the Guardian, is itself a symptom of a reactionary and xenophobic norm taking form across Europe, of which the pro-Israel far-right today offers the ground for a consensual convergence, for a communal and generalized Islamophobia and against all that could thwart this perfect unity, starting with all those Jews who refuse the injunction to support Israeli policies. On a more positive note, the virulence of the assault on Jeremy Corbyn also represents an admission of helplessness before the mass audience of the Left in Britain. We can and must have a long debate about what Jeremy Corbyn ultimately embodies. However, as far as his opponents are concerned, things have been clear from the beginning. Jeremy Corbyn is he who is a serious threat to be urgently drowned in a din of fabricated fear and indignation. *Adapted from:* http://www.fischer02003.over-blog.com/2018/09/corbyn-contre-lobby-sioniste.html *DISTRIBUTED BY PAJU (PALESTINIAN AND JEWISH UNITY)* *WWW.PAJUMONTREAL.ORG * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 16:11:42 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 11:11:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] =?utf-8?b?4oCcVGF4cGF5ZXIgTW9uZXnigJ0gVGhyZWF0?= =?utf-8?q?ens_Medicare-for-All_=28And_Every_Other_Social_Program?= =?utf-8?q?=29?= Message-ID: Long but important: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/21/taxpayer-money-threatens-medicare-for-all-and-every-other-social-program/ "Leftists who continue to talk as if “taxpayer dollars” must be collected to “pay for” government programs are undermining Medicare-for-all and every other progressive policy initiative." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 10:21:08 2018 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 05:21:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] long but really disturbing Message-ID: David Brock on NBC: “I used to know Brett Kavanaugh pretty well. And, when I think of Brett now, in the midst of his hearings for a lifetime appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court, all I can think of is the old "Aesop's Fables" adage: "A man is known by the company he keeps." And that's why I want to tell any senator who cares about our democracy: Vote no. Twenty years ago, when I was a conservative movement stalwart, I got to know Brett Kavanaugh both professionally and personally. Brett actually makes a cameo appearance in my memoir of my time in the GOP, "Blinded By The Right." I describe him at a party full of zealous young conservatives gathered to watch President Bill Clinton's 1998 State of the Union address — just weeks after the story of his affair with a White House intern had broken. When the TV camera panned to Hillary Clinton, I saw Brett — at the time a key lieutenant of Ken Starr, the independent counsel investigating various Clinton scandals — mouth the word "bitch." But there's a lot more to know about Kavanaugh than just his Pavlovian response to Hillary's image. Brett and I were part of a close circle of cold, cynical and ambitious hard-right operatives being groomed by GOP elders for much bigger roles in politics, government and media. And it’s those controversial associations that should give members of the Senate and the American public serious pause. Call it Kavanaugh's cabal: There was his colleague on the Starr investigation, Alex Azar, now the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Mark Paoletta is now chief counsel to Vice President Mike Pence; House anti-Clinton gumshoe Barbara Comstock is now a Republican member of Congress. Future Fox News personalities Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson were there with Ann Coulter, now a best-selling author, and internet provocateur Matt Drudge. At one time or another, each of them partied at my Georgetown townhouse amid much booze and a thick air of cigar smoke. In a rough division of labor, Kavanaugh played the role of lawyer — one of the sharp young minds recruited by the Federalist Society to infiltrate the federal judiciary with true believers. Through that network, Kavanaugh was mentored by D.C. Appeals Court Judge Laurence Silberman, known among his colleagues for planting leaks in the press for partisan advantage. When, as I came to know, Kavanaugh took on the role of designated leaker to the press of sensitive information from Starr's operation, we all laughed that Larry had taught him well. (Of course, that sort of political opportunism by a prosecutor is at best unethical, if not illegal.) Another compatriot was George Conway (now Kellyanne's husband), who led a secretive group of right-wing lawyers — we called them "the elves" — who worked behind the scenes directing the litigation team of Paula Jones, who had sued Clinton for sexual harassment. I knew then that information was flowing quietly from the Jones team via Conway to Starr's office — and also that Conway's go-to man was none other than Brett Kavanaugh. That critical flow of inside information allowed Starr, in effect, to set a perjury trap for Clinton, laying the foundation for a crazed national political crisis and an unjust impeachment over a consensual affair. But the cabal's godfather was Ted Olson, the then-future solicitor general for George W. Bush and now a sainted figure of the GOP establishment (and of some liberals for his role in legalizing same-sex marriage). Olson had a largely hidden role as a consigliere to the "Arkansas Project" — a multi-million dollar dirt-digging operation on the Clintons, funded by the eccentric right-wing billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife and run through The American Spectator magazine, where I worked at the time. Both Ted and Brett had what one could only be called an unhealthy obsession with the Clintons — especially Hillary. While Ted was pushing through the Arkansas Project conspiracy theories claiming that Clinton White House lawyer and Hillary friend Vincent Foster was murdered (he committed suicide), Brett was costing taxpayers millions by pedaling the same garbage at Starr's office. A detailed analysis of Kavanaugh's own notes from the Starr Investigation reveals he was cherry-picking random bits of information from the Starr investigation — as well as the multiple previous investigations — attempting vainly to legitimize wild right-wing conspiracies. For years he chased down each one of them without regard to the emotional cost to Foster’s family and friends, or even common decency. Kavanaugh was not a dispassionate finder of fact but rather an engineer of a political smear campaign. And after decades of that, he expects people to believe he's changed his stripes. Like millions of Americans this week, I tuned into Kavanaugh's hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee with great interest. In his opening statement and subsequent testimony, Kavanaugh presented himself as a "neutral and impartial arbiter" of the law. Judges, he said, were not players but akin to umpires — objectively calling balls and strikes. Again and again, he stressed his "independence" from partisan political influences. But I don't need to see any documents to tell you who Kavanaugh is — because I've known him for years. And I'll leave it to all the lawyers to parse Kavanaugh's views on everything from privacy rights to gun rights. But I can promise you that any pretense of simply being a fair arbiter of the constitutionality of any policy regardless of politics is simply a pretense. He made up his mind nearly a generation ago — and, if he's confirmed, he'll have nearly two generations to impose it upon the rest of us." From davidgreen50 at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 04:43:06 2018 From: davidgreen50 at gmail.com (David Green) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 23:43:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Comment From Midge O'Brien Message-ID: In Supreme Clarence Thomas-lynching fashion, Kavanagh's performance yesterday appeared to be well orchestrated and rehearsed first with flashes of self-righteouds anger and indignation at his and his family's reputation "totally and permanently destroyed," to pouting, whimpering, simpering self-pity at recalling his mother and father, (I thought Senator Grassley might give him a box of tissues), continuing on to his adamant denial of ever having done "this" but confessing that maybe he drank a little too much beer in his youth ("legal at age 18" at the time) as possibly his worst youthful transgression, ending the day's testimony of worthless Congressional hearings supposedly to evaluate whether he is worthy of being appointed a Supreme judge for life of legal conduct of American life. Nary a question from Senators about the ethical and moral character pf his role in his political careers advising and implementing policies concerning sexual abuse and torture of U.S. captives in Iraq and dark sites throughout the world, or inconsistencies in his moral compass while pursuing faults of others. Whereas he was careful not to impugn the character or contest the veracity of his accuser (done a disservice by the trivial questioning and remarks of her partisan supporters), he dismissed her as mistaken or a confused victim of someone else. He couldn't be an abuser, demonstrating chivalorus decorum toward women by not labeling her a liar. He established in his reply to Texas Senator John Kennedy that he believes in God (worked for his one-time boss, W. Bush, when he was running for president), so he couldn't possibly tell a lie (or sexually assault this woman or anyone). I wasted a couple of hours watching the Kabuki theatre (as Francis Boyle aptly called it) but I simply had to witness it for myself, which I must say lived up to expectations of a stellar Clarence Thomas performance! I am surprised that my email box was not filled with commentary from the usual blogs critiquing this event. Maybe they boycotted it--and missed an outstanding performance, or else were so repulsed they couldn't believe what they saw (my box was nevertheless filled with 45 appeals for donations to the usual political organizations as a platform for their fundraising, which I had to delete) Midge O'Brien -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Sat Sep 29 12:49:46 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:49:46 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Kavanagh Morning After In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1662560b585-1ec3-33b2@webjas-vac136.srv.aolmail.net> P.S. Friday: The next day after the Senate confirmation hearings drama (in case you missed it--LOL) another surprise, the decision to postpone the confirmation vote for one week so the FBI could conduct an "investigation." That can only mean one thing: not enough Republican votes to confirm, so McConnell put Flake up to requesting the postponement, since he's not in the reelection race anyway he can take the flake--I mean flack. (A week will give 'em enough time for serious armtwisting of the usual suspects). It's hard to imagine that Kavanagh will be confirmed now, as he's damaged goods--Trump & Co. will probably nominate somebody worse. As our peerless leader is fond of saying, "we'll see what happens." I thought I'd keep you-all up to date in case you slept through the proceedings... Midge In supreme Clarence Thomas-lynching fashion, Kavanagh's performance yesterday appeared to be well orchestrated and rehearsed first with flashes of self-righteouds anger and indignation at his and his family's reputation "totally and permanently destroyed," to pouting, whimpering, simpering self-pity at recalling his mother and father, (I thought Senator Grassley might give him a box of tissues), continuing on to his adamant denial of ever having done "this" but confessing that maybe he drank a little too much beer in his youth ("legal at age 18" at the time) as possibly his worst youthful transgression, ending the day's testimony of worthless Congressional hearings supposedly to evaluate whether he is worthy of being appointed a Supreme judge for life of legal conduct of American life. Nary a question from Senators about the ethical and moral character pf his role in his political careers advising and implementing policies concerning sexual abuse and torture of U.S. captives in Iraq and dark sites throughout the world, or inconsistencies in his moral compass while pursuing faults of others. Whereas he was careful not to impugn the character or contest the veracity of his accuser (done a disservice by the trivial questioning and remarks of her partisan supporters), he dismissed her as mistaken or a confused victim of someone else. He couldn't be an abuser, demonstrating chivalorus decorum toward women by not labeling her a liar. He established in his reply to Texas Senator John Kennedy that he believes in God (worked for his one-time boss, W. Bush, when he was running for president), so he couldn't possibly tell a lie (or sexually assault this woman or anyone). I wasted a couple of hours watching the Kabuki theatre (as Francis Boyle aptly called it) but I simply had to witness it for myself, which I must say lived up to expectations of a stellar Clarence Thomas performance! I am surprised that my email box was not filled with commentary from the usual blogs critiquing this event. Maybe they boycotted it--and missed an outstanding performance, or else were so repulsed they couldn't believe what they saw (my box was nevertheless filled with 45 appeals for donations to the usual political organizations as a platform for their fundraising, which I had to delete) Midge O'Brien _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From divisek at yahoo.com Sat Sep 29 16:47:14 2018 From: divisek at yahoo.com (Dianna Visek) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:47:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Supreme Court: Who Made These People King? In-Reply-To: <3a5a3fb1ad250e247bde9f42d.2cb8a7a8a7.20180929130134.797f0e3f98.ab09e7f5@mail39.atl231.mcsv.net> References: <3a5a3fb1ad250e247bde9f42d.2cb8a7a8a7.20180929130134.797f0e3f98.ab09e7f5@mail39.atl231.mcsv.net> Message-ID: <2123719705.1317196.1538239634622@mail.yahoo.com> On Saturday, September 29, 2018 8:16 AM, Tenth Amendment Center wrote: Supreme Court: Who Made These People King?#yiv5427822943 p{margin:10px 0;padding:0;}#yiv5427822943 table{border-collapse:collapse;}#yiv5427822943 h1, #yiv5427822943 h2, #yiv5427822943 h3, #yiv5427822943 h4, #yiv5427822943 h5, #yiv5427822943 h6{display:block;margin:0;padding:0;}#yiv5427822943 img, #yiv5427822943 a img{border:0;height:auto;outline:none;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5427822943 body, #yiv5427822943 #yiv5427822943bodyTable, #yiv5427822943 #yiv5427822943bodyCell{min-height:100%;margin:0;padding:0;width:100%;}#yiv5427822943 .yiv5427822943mcnPreviewText{display:none;}#yiv5427822943 #yiv5427822943outlook a{padding:0;}#yiv5427822943 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#yiv5427822943 td#yiv5427822943templateFooter td.yiv5427822943mcnTextContent p{font-size:14px !important;line-height:150% !important;}} Supreme Court: Who Made These People King? | | | | | | Hi Dianna,When it comes to the Kavanaugh hearings, the level of political theater is - well, insane. Most Democrats generally think he’s disqualified or should be arrested. Most Republicans generally think he should be confirmed. Here's the problem. No one seems to give a damn about his work to get the Patriot Act passed, his views on mass warrantless surveillance, war powers, the executive, torture - anything, really. And what does that tell me? Things have gotten so bad that a person can be in favor of all the worst federal programs and still get confirmed for the Supreme Court. The only thing that can bring that person down is a crime or allegations of one. A politicized SCOTUS is an extremely dangerous one. On top of it, the Supreme Court is NOT supposed to have the kind of power it has today.  In Mike Maharrey's 2017 article below he asks, "Who made the Supreme Court king?" Well, the Constitution sure didn't. Before you take a few minutes to read it and pass it along, I hope you'll consider joining the TAC as a member. Nothing - and I mean it - nothing helps us get the message out and the job done for the Constitution and liberty more than the support of our members. Here's the link - you know what to do! https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/members | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Share | | | | | | | Tweet | | | | | | | Forward | | | | | | | | | | | | | Who Made the Supreme Court King? by Mike Maharrey (click here to read this article in your browser)For the last 100 years, most Americans have assumed the federal court system, and ultimately the Supreme Court, stands as the final arbiter in any constitutional controversy. But who made the federal courts king?The Constitution certainly didn’t. Take a moment and go look for the clause in the Constitution that delegates to the Supreme Court the power to serve as the sole and final authority on what is or isn’t constitutional. You won’t find it, because it does not exist.  The Constitution tasks the Court with “judging cases.”So, who placed the Supreme Court at the pinnacle of Constitutional interpretation?Why, the Supreme Court itself did!In 1958, the SCOTUS declared “constitutional law,” as determined by the federal court system, the supreme law of the land, on equal footing with the Constitution itself. The Supreme Court set itself on its own throne in its ruling in Cooper v. Aaron, a case relating to school desegregation. “Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the ‘supreme Law of the Land.’ In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as ‘the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,’ declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, 2 L.Ed. 60, that ‘It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.’ This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system.” The Cooper decision hangs on Marbury vs. Madison (1803). The Marshall Court ruled the Judiciary Act of 1789 unconstitutional. This was the first time the Supreme Court used the power of judicial review. And in a sense, the court did bestow upon itself the power by its exercise thereof. But in fact, the idea that courts could invalidate unconstitutional law pre-dated the Maybury ruling and even the ratification of the Constitution. Alexander Hamilton discussed the concept in Federalist 78. “[T]he courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges as, a fundamental law. It, therefore, belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.” So, nobody understanding the nature of the judicial system should question that the court possesses the power to declare an act unconstitutional, and the judiciary rightly has the final say in a dispute between the various branches of the federal government. Its rulings stand supreme only in those cases the Constitution gives it the power to judge. The Court checks legislative and executive power. But the question remains: does the Court possess sole authority to declare an act unconstitutional when a dispute arises between the federal government, and the states or the people?Or more simply put: does a single branch of the federal government serve as the sole judge of the extent of the federal government’s own power? Should the created get to dictate to the creator the condition of its own existence?To answer, “Yes,” opens the door to tyranny, because such a system leaves no option for the states or the people to exercise in their defense should all three branches conspire to impose an unconstitutional measure. In essence, those who advocate supreme judicial authority tell the states and the people to “sit down and shut up” if a federal court puts its stamp of approval on an unconstitutional act. The notion invalidates the Constitution as the supreme law of the land, instead vesting that power in the pronouncement of five out of nine judges. It changes the American system from a constitutional republic to an oligarchy.This is absurd in light of the framers’ deep distrust of concentrated power.So, who has the final say? According to James Madison, the people of the states – because they are sovereign in the Constitutional system.Here’s how Madison put in in his Report of 1800. “The States then being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity, that there can be no tribunal above their authority, to decide in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated; and consequently that as the parties to it, they must themselves decide in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.”   So why do we call it the Supreme Court if it isn’t really supreme?Because it is – within its proper sphere. Back to Madison. “However true, therefore, it may be, that the judicial department, is, in all questions submitted to it by the forms of the Constitution, to decide in the last resort, this resort must necessarily be deemed the last in relation to the authorities of the other departments of the government; not in relation to the rights of the parties to the constitutional compact, from which the judicial as well as the other departments hold their delegated trusts.” So in reality, the federal courts aren’t king. The people of the states are. | | | | CAN YOU HELP US OUT?The only way we can continue our work is by having the financial resources to get the job done - and more to reach new people with a message of the Constitution and liberty iYou can set up a TAC membership for as little as 2 bucks a month.  Thank you so much for any consideration you can give to becoming a member today! https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/members If you prefer a one-time donation - we accept credit cards, you can mail a check, or use cryptocurrencies - visit this link to get all the info:https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/donateThank you so much for reading and your support!Concordia res parvae crescunt, (small things grow great by concord)  Michael Boldin Tenth Amendment Center 213.935.0553 | | | | | | | | | | Copyright © 2018 Tenth Amendment Center, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you opted in at our website - www.tenthamendmentcenter.com Our mailing address is: Tenth Amendment CenterP.O. Box 13458Los Angeles, CA 90013 Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. | | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galliher at illinois.edu Sat Sep 29 22:17:51 2018 From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:17:51 -0500 Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Supreme Court: Who Made These People King? In-Reply-To: <2123719705.1317196.1538239634622@mail.yahoo.com> References: <3a5a3fb1ad250e247bde9f42d.2cb8a7a8a7.20180929130134.797f0e3f98.ab09e7f5@mail39.atl231.mcsv.net> <2123719705.1317196.1538239634622@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: See the parallel discussion of constitutionalism (but from the ‘left’) - i.e., that it’s anti-democratic - in Richard Tuck’s analysis of why Brexit should be supported: >. —CGE > On Sep 29, 2018, at 11:47 AM, Dianna Visek via Peace-discuss wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 29, 2018 8:16 AM, Tenth Amendment Center > wrote: > > > Hi Dianna, > When it comes to the Kavanaugh hearings, the level of political theater is - well, insane. > > Most Democrats generally think he’s disqualified or should be arrested. > > Most Republicans generally think he should be confirmed. > > Here's the problem. > > No one seems to give a damn about his work to get the Patriot Act passed, his views on mass warrantless surveillance, war powers, the executive, torture - anything, really. > > And what does that tell me? Things have gotten so bad that a person can be in favor of all the worst federal programs and still get confirmed for the Supreme Court. The only thing that can bring that person down is a crime or allegations of one. > > A politicized SCOTUS is an extremely dangerous one. > > On top of it, the Supreme Court is NOT supposed to have the kind of power it has today. > > In Mike Maharrey's 2017 article below he asks, "Who made the Supreme Court king?" > > Well, the Constitution sure didn't. > > Before you take a few minutes to read it and pass it along, I hope you'll consider joining the TAC as a member. Nothing - and I mean it - nothing helps us get the message out and the job done for the Constitution and liberty more than the support of our members. > > Here's the link - you know what to do! > https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/members > Share > Tweet > Forward > Who Made the Supreme Court King? > by Mike Maharrey (click here to read this article in your browser ) > For the last 100 years, most Americans have assumed the federal court system, and ultimately the Supreme Court, stands as the final arbiter in any constitutional controversy. But who made the federal courts king? > The Constitution certainly didn’t. Take a moment and go look for the clause in the Constitution that delegates to the Supreme Court the power to serve as the sole and final authority on what is or isn’t constitutional. You won’t find it, because it does not exist. The Constitution tasks the Court with “judging cases.” > So, who placed the Supreme Court at the pinnacle of Constitutional interpretation? > Why, the Supreme Court itself did! > In 1958, the SCOTUS declared “constitutional law,” as determined by the federal court system, the supreme law of the land, on equal footing with the Constitution itself. The Supreme Court set itself on its own throne in its ruling in Cooper v. Aaron, a case relating to school desegregation. > “Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the ‘supreme Law of the Land.’ In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as ‘the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,’ declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, 2 L.Ed. 60, that ‘It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.’ This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system.” > The Cooper decision hangs on Marbury vs. Madison (1803). The Marshall Court ruled the Judiciary Act of 1789 unconstitutional. This was the first time the Supreme Court used the power of judicial review. And in a sense, the court did bestow upon itself the power by its exercise thereof. But in fact, the idea that courts could invalidate unconstitutional law pre-dated the Maybury ruling and even the ratification of the Constitution. Alexander Hamilton discussed the concept in Federalist 78. > “[T]he courts were designed to be an intermediate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latter within the limits assigned to their authority. The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges as, a fundamental law. It, therefore, belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents.” > So, nobody understanding the nature of the judicial system should question that the court possesses the power to declare an act unconstitutional, and the judiciary rightly has the final say in a dispute between the various branches of the federal government. Its rulings stand supreme only in those cases the Constitution gives it the power to judge. The Court checks legislative and executive power. But the question remains: does the Court possess sole authority to declare an act unconstitutional when a dispute arises between the federal government, and the states or the people? > Or more simply put: does a single branch of the federal government serve as the sole judge of the extent of the federal government’s own power? Should the created get to dictate to the creator the condition of its own existence? > To answer, “Yes,” opens the door to tyranny, because such a system leaves no option for the states or the people to exercise in their defense should all three branches conspire to impose an unconstitutional measure. In essence, those who advocate supreme judicial authority tell the states and the people to “sit down and shut up” if a federal court puts its stamp of approval on an unconstitutional act. The notion invalidates the Constitution as the supreme law of the land, instead vesting that power in the pronouncement of five out of nine judges. It changes the American system from a constitutional republic to an oligarchy. > This is absurd in light of the framers’ deep distrust of concentrated power. > So, who has the final say? According to James Madison, the people of the states – because they are sovereign in the Constitutional system. > Here’s how Madison put in in his Report of 1800. > “The States then being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity, that there can be no tribunal above their authority, to decide in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated; and consequently that as the parties to it, they must themselves decide in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.” > So why do we call it the Supreme Court if it isn’t really supreme? > Because it is – within its proper sphere. Back to Madison. > “However true, therefore, it may be, that the judicial department, is, in all questions submitted to it by the forms of the Constitution, to decide in the last resort, this resort must necessarily be deemed the last in relation to the authorities of the other departments of the government; not in relation to the rights of the parties to the constitutional compact, from which the judicial as well as the other departments hold their delegated trusts.” > So in reality, the federal courts aren’t king. The people of the states are. > CAN YOU HELP US OUT? > The only way we can continue our work is by having the financial resources to get the job done - and more to reach new people with a message of the Constitution and liberty i > You can set up a TAC membership for as little as 2 bucks a month. Thank you so much for any consideration you can give to becoming a member today! > https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/members > If you prefer a one-time donation - we accept credit cards, you can mail a check, or use cryptocurrencies - visit this link to get all the info: > https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/donate > Thank you so much for reading and your support! > Concordia res parvae crescunt, > (small things grow great by concord) > > Michael Boldin > Tenth Amendment Center > 213.935.0553 > Copyright © 2018 Tenth Amendment Center, All rights reserved. > You are receiving this email because you opted in at our website - www.tenthamendmentcenter.com > > Our mailing address is: > Tenth Amendment Center > P.O. Box 13458 > Los Angeles, CA 90013 > > Add us to your address book > > Want to change how you receive these emails? > You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list . > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace-discuss mailing list > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ewj at pigs.ag Sun Sep 30 10:20:06 2018 From: ewj at pigs.ag (ewj) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:20:06 +0800 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Kavanagh Morning After In-Reply-To: <1662560b585-1ec3-33b2@webjas-vac136.srv.aolmail.net> References: <1662560b585-1ec3-33b2@webjas-vac136.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <1538302805450.gvlgm3h50whwnfogkmqnja10@android.mail.163.com> Quare fremuerunt gentes, et populi meditati sunt inania? Inania, Inania, God shed his grace on thee... On 2018-09-29 20:49 , Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss Wrote: P.S.  Friday: The next day after the Senate confirmation hearings drama (in case you missed it--LOL) another surprise, the decision to postpone the confirmation vote for one week so the FBI could conduct an "investigation."  That can only mean one thing: not enough Republican votes to confirm, so McConnell put Flake up to requesting the postponement, since he's not in the reelection race anyway he can take the flake--I mean flack.  (A week will give 'em enough time for serious armtwisting of the usual suspects).  It's hard to imagine that Kavanagh will be confirmed now, as he's damaged goods--Trump & Co. will probably nominate somebody worse.  As our peerless leader is fond of saying, "we'll see what happens."   I thought I'd keep you-all up to date in case you slept through the proceedings... Midge In supreme Clarence Thomas-lynching fashion, Kavanagh's performance yesterday appeared to be well orchestrated and rehearsed first with flashes of self-righteouds anger and indignation at his and his family's reputation "totally and permanently destroyed," to pouting, whimpering, simpering self-pity at recalling his mother and father, (I thought Senator Grassley might give him a box of tissues), continuing on to his adamant denial of ever having done "this" but confessing that maybe he drank a little too much beer in his youth ("legal at age 18" at the time) as possibly his worst youthful transgression, ending the day's testimony of worthless Congressional hearings supposedly to evaluate whether he is worthy of being appointed a Supreme judge for life of legal conduct of American life.  Nary a question from Senators about the ethical and moral character pf his role in his political careers advising and implementing policies concerning sexual abuse and torture of U.S. captives in Iraq and dark sites throughout the world, or inconsistencies in his moral compass while pursuing faults of others.   Whereas he was careful not to impugn the character or contest the veracity of his accuser (done a disservice by the trivial questioning and remarks of her partisan supporters), he dismissed her as mistaken or a confused victim of someone else.  He couldn't be an abuser, demonstrating chivalorus decorum toward women by not labeling her a liar.  He established in his reply to Texas Senator John Kennedy that he believes in God (worked for his one-time boss, W. Bush, when he was running for president), so he couldn't possibly tell a lie (or sexually assault this woman or anyone).   I wasted a couple of hours watching the Kabuki theatre (as Francis Boyle aptly called it) but I simply had to witness it for myself, which I must say lived up to expectations of a stellar Clarence Thomas performance!  I am surprised that my email box was not filled with commentary from the usual blogs critiquing this event.  Maybe they boycotted it--and missed an outstanding performance, or else were so repulsed they couldn't believe what they saw (my box was nevertheless filled with 45 appeals for donations to the usual political organizations as a platform for their fundraising, which I had to delete) Midge O'Brien            _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moboct1 at aim.com Sun Sep 30 16:55:03 2018 From: moboct1 at aim.com (Mildred O'brien) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:55:03 -0400 Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Kavanagh Morning After In-Reply-To: <1662560b585-1ec3-33b2@webjas-vac136.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <1662b67a1c4-1ec4-87c@webjas-vaa091.srv.aolmail.net> The next day after the Senate confirmation hearings drama (in case you missed it--LOL) another surprise, the decision to postpone the confirmation vote for one week so the FBI could conduct an "investigation" can only mean one thing: not enough Republican votes to confirm, so McConnell saved face by puting Flake up to requesting the postponement, since he's not in the reelection race anyway he can take the flake--I mean flack. (A week will give 'em enough time for serious arm twisting of the usual suspects). It's hard to imagine that Kavanagh will be confirmed, as he's damaged goods. Trump & Co. will probably nominate somebody worse. As our peerless leader is fond of saying, "we'll see what happens." (so far today: had to delete 76 more requests for political contributions; still no comments from you-all on recent D.C. developments. Guess everybody slept through it). Midge In supreme Clarence Thomas-lynching fashion, Kavanagh's performance yesterday appeared to be well orchestrated and rehearsed first with flashes of self-righteouds anger and indignation at his and his family's reputation "totally and permanently destroyed," to pouting, whimpering, simpering self-pity at recalling his mother and father, (I thought Senator Grassley might give him a box of tissues), continuing on to his adamant denial of ever having done "this" but confessing that maybe he drank a little too much beer in his youth ("legal at age 18" at the time) as possibly his worst youthful transgression, ending the day's testimony of worthless Congressional hearings supposedly to evaluate whether he is worthy of being appointed a Supreme judge for life of legal conduct of American life. Nary a question from Senators about the ethical and moral character pf his role in his political careers advising and implementing policies concerning sexual abuse and torture of U.S. captives in Iraq and dark sites throughout the world, or inconsistencies in his moral compass while pursuing faults of others. Whereas he was careful not to impugn the character or contest the veracity of his accuser (done a disservice by the trivial questioning and remarks of her partisan supporters), he dismissed her as mistaken or a confused victim of someone else. He couldn't be an abuser, demonstrating chivalorus decorum toward women by not labeling her a liar. He established in his reply to Texas Senator John Kennedy that he believes in God (worked for his one-time boss, W. Bush, when he was running for president), so he couldn't possibly tell a lie (or sexually assault this woman or anyone). I wasted a couple of hours watching the Kabuki theatre (as Francis Boyle aptly called it) but I simply had to witness it for myself, which I must say lived up to expectations of a stellar Clarence Thomas performance! I am surprised that my email box was not filled with commentary from the usual blogs critiquing this event. Maybe they boycotted it--and missed an outstanding performance, or else were so repulsed they couldn't believe what they saw (my box was nevertheless filled with 45 appeals for donations to the usual political organizations as a platform for their fundraising, which I had to delete) Midge O'Brien _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjornsona at ameritech.net Sun Sep 30 18:50:10 2018 From: bjornsona at ameritech.net (Anne Parkinson) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:50:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Peace-discuss] The Kavanagh Morning After In-Reply-To: <1662b67a1c4-1ec4-87c@webjas-vaa091.srv.aolmail.net> References: <1662560b585-1ec3-33b2@webjas-vac136.srv.aolmail.net> <1662b67a1c4-1ec4-87c@webjas-vaa091.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <2128361990.1647796.1538333410827@mail.yahoo.com> 1:37:50 the moment Ms. Mitchell finds Thursday, July 1st evening get-together on Kaveman's calendar and questions him on it while subtly pointing out that evening could fit the get-together Dr. Ford described. I believe the GOP do not let Ms. Mitchell question him at all after that.  Kavanaugh questioned about sex assault allegations (Entire hearing) | | | | | | | | | | | Kavanaugh questioned about sex assault allegations (Entire hearing) Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh answer questions from the Senate Judiciary committe about an allegation of... | | | | On Sunday, September 30, 2018 11:55 AM, Mildred O'brien via Peace-discuss wrote: The next day after the Senate confirmation hearings drama (in case you missed it--LOL) another surprise, the decision to postpone the confirmation vote for one week so the FBI could conduct an "investigation" can only mean one thing: not enough Republican votes to confirm, so McConnell saved face by puting Flake up to requesting the postponement, since he's not in the reelection race anyway he can take the flake--I mean flack.  (A week will give 'em enough time for serious arm twisting of the usual suspects).  It's hard to imagine that Kavanagh will be confirmed, as he's damaged goods.  Trump & Co. will probably nominate somebody worse.  As our peerless leader is fond of saying, "we'll see what happens."  (so far today: had to delete 76 more requests for political contributions; still no comments from you-all on recent D.C. developments.  Guess everybody slept through it).  Midge In supreme Clarence Thomas-lynching fashion, Kavanagh's performance yesterday appeared to be well orchestrated and rehearsed first with flashes of self-righteouds anger and indignation at his and his family's reputation "totally and permanently destroyed," to pouting, whimpering, simpering self-pity at recalling his mother and father, (I thought Senator Grassley might give him a box of tissues), continuing on to his adamant denial of ever having done "this" but confessing that maybe he drank a little too much beer in his youth ("legal at age 18" at the time) as possibly his worst youthful transgression, ending the day's testimony of worthless Congressional hearings supposedly to evaluate whether he is worthy of being appointed a Supreme judge for life of legal conduct of American life.  Nary a question from Senators about the ethical and moral character pf his role in his political careers advising and implementing policies concerning sexual abuse and torture of U.S. captives in Iraq and dark sites throughout the world, or inconsistencies in his moral compass while pursuing faults of others.   Whereas he was careful not to impugn the character or contest the veracity of his accuser (done a disservice by the trivial questioning and remarks of her partisan supporters), he dismissed her as mistaken or a confused victim of someone else.  He couldn't be an abuser, demonstrating chivalorus decorum toward women by not labeling her a liar.  He established in his reply to Texas Senator John Kennedy that he believes in God (worked for his one-time boss, W. Bush, when he was running for president), so he couldn't possibly tell a lie (or sexually assault this woman or anyone).   I wasted a couple of hours watching the Kabuki theatre (as Francis Boyle aptly called it) but I simply had to witness it for myself, which I must say lived up to expectations of a stellar Clarence Thomas performance!  I am surprised that my email box was not filled with commentary from the usual blogs critiquing this event.  Maybe they boycotted it--and missed an outstanding performance, or else were so repulsed they couldn't believe what they saw (my box was nevertheless filled with 45 appeals for donations to the usual political organizations as a platform for their fundraising, which I had to delete) Midge O'Brien           _______________________________________________Peace-discuss mailing listPeace-discuss at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss_______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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