[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Support for the impeachment nonsense is support for the CIA/Deep State agenda

[C. G. Estabrook]

David—

I failed to make myself clear about Trump’s attacks on the Bush/Obama neocon/neolib policies: those attacks made Trump president because enough voters had learnt that Obama’s “Hope and Change” was a lie. The attacks weren’t an announcement of what Trump would do in office. 

But those attacks so affrighted the political establishment that they became determined to remove Trump (Russiagate, impeachment, etc.) so he wouldn’t even have a chance to interfere with long-term anti-Russia/anti-China foreign policy. (A comprehensive statement of that constant policy is Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book, ’The Grand Chessboard.') That foreign policy is “the CIA/DeepState agenda," because it is meant to maintain the US one-precent’s world economic dominance, in place since WWII. (It’s now under threat from the rest of the world, which is why the CIA/DeepState et al. are so vicious in maintaining it.) 

Trump became president because 2012 Obama voters in six states— Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio and Florida — either stayed home or otherwise voted against Clinton in 2016. Trump flipped those six states that had gone for Obama in 2012 in his upset victory over Clinton because of the immiseration of the US majority in the Obama years, when wealth concentrated at an accelerating rate and wages remained flat. The US political establishment is determined not to let that happen again - without changing the economic and war policies that caused it.  That’s their problem, and the source of the hysterical and distracting attacks on Trump. The establishment can’t win by  fronting its real agenda - the Obama policies of war and austerity. But the Orange Man uttered blasphemy in criticizing them & must be punished. That’s also the only electoral strategy they have - except (horrors!) Sanders’ and Gabbard’s.

The establishment in a tough spot and will kill people (like Seth Rich?) to get out and resume the official killing of the last administration (and this one).

Tell truth and shame the devil, CGE



> On Dec 6, 2019, at 8:49 AM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> " Trump is being impeached because he’s the first major party candidate in 40 years to attack the neocon (more war) and neolib (more austerity) policies of all recent administrations. "
> 
> Carl, 
> 
> As you know, I opposed Russia gate as well as the current Ukraine gate for a multitude of reasons. And I oppose impeaching Trump for this nonsense about briefly withholding weapons from Ukraine ( which is a fascist government brought to power by a CIA backed coup ) that even Obama refused to give weapons to.
> Trump should be impeached first and foremost for his defying a congressional vote to end support for Saudi Arabia's genocidal war in Yemen, as Bob Naiman pointed out.
> 
> And John Wasom, I disagree with you about Trump being the worst President who most deserves impeachment. G.W. Bush was MUCH worse than anything Trump has done ( so far ) and should have been impeached but we can thank Nancy Pelosi and the corporate Democrats for stopping that from happening, 
> ( Nancy Pelosi on election night Nov. 2006 -  " Impeachment is off the table, impeachment is off the table " ) despite tens of thousands of local voter referendums passed across the country in 2006 ( including in the cities of Urbana and barely losing in Champaign by 2 percentage points ) calling for his impeachment for SERIOUS war crimes that cost thousands of American lives and close to a million Iraqi and Afghan lives, the passage of the police state Patriot Act, and the creation of the Guantanamo concentration camp as well as legalizing kidnappings ( renditions ), detention without charges or trial ( which did not exempt American citizens ) and torture.
> Oh but now, Ellen and the rest of the ruling class and their corporate media are portraying him as a cuddly likeable guy who got a freedom medal pinned on him by Joe Biden. 
> 
> But Carl, what you write above is totally inaccurate. 
> 
> Trump is a Neo Liberal on steroids. His tax cuts to the wealthy in 2017, his anti-Labor regulations and appointments to the NLRB ( National Labor Relations Board ), his appointment of Federalist Society right-wing judges, His recent NAFTA 2.0 Trade Agreement ( USMCA ) which is even worse than the original NAFTA agreement, his proposing to cut billions of dollars from the Education Department seeking to eliminate after-school programs teacher training and grants for other school needs and a proposal that would create a $5 billion program to subsidize corporate charter schools, and his recent proposal to cut 3 million dollars from the food stamp program and making it more difficult to obtain food stamps by among other things over riding individual States ability to set its own requirements that are more generous.
> All of which of course the corporate Democrats either openly support or pretend to oppose by making phony condemnations while doing nothing to prevent it.
> 
> In terms of foreign policy, yes, Trump is and was opposed from the very beginning by the majority of U.S. corporate oligarchs ( excluding of course Sheldon Adelson , Robert Mercer, et al ) and hence likewise by the oligarch's intelligence community. Primarily because Hillary Clinton was a loyal and dependable servant of the oligarchs. Hell even Henry Kissinger and the Koch Bros. endorsed Clinton. Trump was seen as an undependable wild card with no ideology except his own opportunism and not a team player. However that did NOT make Trump an opponent of Neo Con policies, only that his Neo Con and imperialist policies differed for the Neo Con / U.S. oligarch's policies. 
> 
> Cases in point -  His withdrawal of U.S. troops from the Syrian-Turkish border of the Rojave region only to redeploy them to the oil wells of North East Syria and to Saudi Arabia, His continued and expanded support of Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen, the recent Bolivian coup, the continued attempts to over throw the government of Venezuela and Nicaragua, intensification of economic and political sanctions against Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, even subtle threats about drone war and invasion of Mexico.
> 
> Just as the old saying about a broken clock being correct twice a day, Trump's wanting to end the cold war with Russia is what should be done, but more than likely it is so that he can focus more on belligerence in the middle east, Latin America, and especially China, as well as probable opportunistic future plans to finally be able to build a Trump hotel in Moscow which has been an ongoing 20 year failure to achieve. Then of course there was the willingness to negotiate with North Korea, but only after a schizophrenic 180 degree reversal of policy from his previous threats of attacking and his adolescent belligerent insults of " Rocket Man ".
> 
> Impeachment of Trump will not succeed, and even if it did, do we really want to go from a bumbling buffoon like Trump to the intelligent and focused Christian fascist Mike Pence ?
> The best way to get rid of Trump is to have a good Democratic candidate run against him like Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard and in the meantime publicly call out and oppose Trump's horrible policies. But that is the last thing Pelosi, Schumer and the other DNC corporate Democrats want to do. Russia gate and Ukraine Gate is an excellent distraction so they don't have to advocate for their constituents, because they do NOT want to change their Neo Con / Neo Liberal policies that a majority of the American people oppose but the corporate oligarchic DONAR CLASS supports, and the DNC does not want to do anything to disrupt their corporate money gravy train.
> 
> Lastly, all this Russia gate, Ukraine gate and impeachment focus has done is strengthen Trump in the polls. Don't believe me go look for yourselves. Not to mention who do you think the U.S. corporate oligarch ruling class and their corporate owned media are going to support if it is a general election contest between Trump and either Sanders or Tulsi ???
> How much money does anyone want to bet me that they will secretly support Trump and do everything in their power to help him win re-election.
> Not to mention, if you see what they are doing currently to a fellow billionaire like Trump, what do you think they are going to do to a President Bernie Sanders or a President Tulsi Gabbard ?
> 
> Unfortunately too many good people have been reacting with their emotions and not their logic in regards to Trump's election, and have not really thought all of this out clearly from the beginning causes of Trump being elected  to consequences of  current and proposed future actions. 
> Trump is a symptom NOT the disease. 
> 
> David Johnson
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peace-discuss [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 11:20 PM
> To: John W.
> Cc: Peace-discuss
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Support for the impeachment nonsense is support for the CIA/Deep State agenda
> 
> John--
> 
> Trump is being impeached because he’s the first major party candidate in 40 years to attack the neocon (more war) and neolib (more austerity) policies of all recent administrations. 
> 
> Altho’ in office he's largely adopted those policies, the permanent government are afraid he’ll act on his attacks (e.g., by withdrawing from Afghanistan and Syria). 
> 
> Those attacks made him president by speaking for the growing populist wave of those who saw that Obama’s promises of prosperity weren’t fulfilled.
> 
> Trump flipped six states that had gone for Obama in 2012 — Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio and Florida — in his upset victory over Clinton.
> 
> And those states were lost by Obama voters who stayed home, rather than voting again for a Democrat nominee (Clinton). They'd seen no "hope and change.”
> 
> So all Trump's opponents seem to have are schoolboy insults - nothing that speaks to the immiseration of the majority. 
> 
> The concentration of wealth in America continued - at an accelerating rate - in the Obama years., while wages remained flat - and Obama-Clinton war provocations of Russia and China increased.  
> 
> Since the establishment's neocon/neolib policies aren’t popular, they have only Trump’s personal failings to attack him on - which they are doing hysterically.
> 
> So support for the impeachment nonsense is support for the CIA/Deep State/permanent government agenda - those policies of more war and more austerity: that’s what generates Trump's 'base.'
> 
> Sanders of course speaks to those same quite real anxieties - which is why the permanent government can't allow him to be nominated: he’d win.
> 
> Meanwhile, impeachment like Russiagate will continue, because it’s all the permanent government/liberals have: ORANGE MAN BAD!
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2019, at 9:27 PM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:26 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> <https://truthout.org/articles/when-trump-calls-people-filth-hes-laying-groundwork-for-genocide/>
>> 
>> [Mary Ann Caton] 'There is much to highlight in Bill Martin's commentary here, so try this one on for size: "Support for the impeachment nonsense is support for the CIA/Deep State agenda..." Here's the rest of what he had to say:
>> 
>> ‘This article [above], from Truthout.org, is the kind of nonsense that has become exceedingly tiresome, but also very offensive, because it just plays around with terms such as genocide, fascist, and Nazi.
>> 
>> ‘The basis for the author’s argument is Trump’s tweet saying that Baltimore is a “disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess” and “no human would want to live there.” The author, Nicholas Powers, turns this into Trump’s supposedly using a “rhetoric of filth” that is aimed at those same human beings. Except of course Trump doesn’t say anything like that. Powers quotes with approval Joy Behar, as a “Jewish voice” here (which is typical bullshit Identity Politics, as it would be easy enough to find numerous Jewish voices who would disagree with her) transposing what Trump says about rats to the Nazi use of the term “vermin” to refer to Jews. 
>> 
>> ‘Again, Trump has said nothing like that.
>> 
>> No, the quoted tweets are absolutely correct.  And of course tRump wasn't talking about Jews.  He was talking about Negroes.  He was pissed off at Elijah Cummings, and he said (tweeted) the first juvenile thing that popped into his benighted, hate-filled mind, as he always does.  Everyone with half a brain recognized it as an extremely thinly-veiled racial slur.  You can dismiss it as 'identity politics' if you want to.  In any event, it's extremely bad politics, and as "leadership" it's reprehensible on a number of levels.  It is indeed a "rhetoric of filth", which tRump is famous for.
>> 
>> 
>> ‘There’s no mention in this article about “laying the groundwork for genocide” of Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” comment, applied to “half of Trump’s supporter’s,” which would amount to about thirty-one million people or so. This is conjecture on my part, but I feel that I am on solid ground: those who talk in the way that Powers does only disagree with HRC on the “half” part. They are fine with statements of the “dreaming of a white genocide”-sort, as long as they can get out in front of them first with some strategic virtue-signaling. Of course, the ones signaling the loudest are themselves white males, though “educated.” But, hey, that’s a class thing, and any good liberal and leftist these days knows that talking about class is just another form of racism.
>> 
>> ‘Despite this nonsense being tiresome, not really worth paying attention to (obviously I’m engaging in a performative contradiction here), one wants to say to this author, and to Adam Schiff, etc., “Keep talking, assh*les.” It’s obvious by now that no amount of self-exposure is going to have much effect on hardened Trump-haters, they’ll just double-down.
>> 
>> As will the tRump lovers.  So what else is new?
>> 
>> 
>> A third of this is believing that most ordinary people are stupid, racist, sexist, fascists, a third is posing as some sort of “Resistance” and the self-satisfaction that brings, and a third is in fear of not being acceptable to their celebrity icons of political correctness and therefore susceptible to being called out.
>> 
>> ‘(Hillary doubled down on her remark about deplorables, numerous times. The remark was not a “gaff” or faux-pas, it was said with the deliberate aim of drawing a line. But this isn’t about Hillary—except in the case that she becomes the 2020 Democratic nominee, which is not at all out of the realm of possibility*—it is about all of the ordinary-people Democrats who go along with this crap, and who view other ordinary people through the lens of this line.)
>> 
>> ‘Hopefully there are some others who will see once and for all what a load of crap the Democrats and their “Left” allies are. Significantly, the biggest move in this direction thus far is from African-Americans who have had it with being patronized and played for chumps.
>> 
>> All I'm hearing so far is this Bill Martin doing a whole bunch of name-calling.  Who in hell is he?  Does he play in the same schoolyard where tRump still shoots marbles?  I'm not hearing a damned thing that's even remotely intelligent so far.
>> 
>> 
>> ‘One thing that was useful about seeing this article posted on a liberal friend’s page is that it did make things a little more clear, to me at least, regarding the difference between liberals and the Left.
>> 
>> ‘The Left tries to stay on message with charging that Trump is a fascist, a Nazi, like Hitler.
>> The liberals say this stuff too, but also they are outraged as well by Trump’s Rocky Balboa pose (thankfully, the MSM was quick to expose that dangerous ruse!), the hateful serving of fast food to the champion Clemson football team (whose players such liberals also hate, but whatever), etc.
>> 
>> Agreed, those things are pretty trivial.  But they're all part of the tRump manufactured persona, designed to appeal to his 'base' who are indeed deplorables and foolishly lap the stuff up while tRump, in reality, spends millions of our taxpayer dollars on golf outings and fancy black tie dinners at Mar-a-La-Go.  Really not unlike Bruce Rauner appearing in flannel shirts in all of his TV ads when he was running for governor of Illinois, though Rauner was somewhat more dignified about it.
>> 
>> 
>> ‘The liberals are quick to claim that Trump supporters are not only fascist, but also stupid. The Left sometimes traffics in this language of stupidity, but in general instead claims that the sort of people who support Trump are ignorant.
>> 
>> ‘What, though, is the difference that makes a difference between anti-Trump liberals and anti-Trump leftists, if they seem fine in making common cause?
>> 
>> ‘Adam Schiff accuses Trump of “not respecting our intelligence agencies.” It used to be that was an important aspect of the Left, not only not respecting the CIA and other parts of the “intelligence community,” but also pulling the curtain back on them, exposing them, demonstrating why they are a horrible thing. Now we are in an upside-down world where liberals and the left go along with this stuff for the sake of impeachment, and Trump is the one pulling the curtain back.
>> 
>> I have noticed this and find it interesting, though of course tRump himself isn't pulling the curtain back on shit, but merely deflecting and obfuscating and 'counter-punching' every waking moment    But you know, the Real World where some of us live is not strictly Manichean.  The obvious synthesis of this apparent contradiction or irony is that there is a difference between intelligence-gathering and the USE or MISUSE of the intelligence gathered, which is a matter of political policy.  I suspect that most of the intelligence-gathering is pretty accurate, done by career professionals with no particular allegiance to political party.  These are they whom Adam Schiff lauds.  But then you have the political appointees like Mike Pompeo (former head of the CIA, not coincidentally), or like Rumsfeld/Powell of 15 years ago, or like the cabal in power during the Viet Nam war.  In making their decisions, they act as often as not AGAINST the recommendations of their intelligence-gathering staff, or else they manufacture evidence to justify their misdeeds, and of course create the global chaos that we're all familiar with.  This is who the 'Left' is railing against when they protest the actions of the CIA, for example - the POLITICAL POLICIES, not the intelligence gathering.  
>> 
>> Pay attention, Carl.  There'll be a quiz on this later in the semester.
>> 
>> 
>> ‘Nothing better can be expected from the liberal or “progressive” “blue no matter who”-crowd. They’re openly down with the CIA, NSC, etc. But if you’re a “leftist” or some other supposedly “radical” opponent of Trump, part of the “Resistance,” and you’re supporting this impeachment nonsense, this would be a good time to do some hard thinking.**
>> 
>> Blah blah blah.  More name calling.  Bill Martin, whoever he is, doesn't like 'The Left'.  We get that.  I don't like Bill Martin.  He's an idiot.
>> 
>> 
>> *(Who will be the 2020 Democratic nominee? I’m not a gambler, but it wouldn’t be that wild of a proposition to put some money on Michelle Obama.)
>> 
>> **(In stark terms, just to be clear … Support for the impeachment nonsense is support for the CIA/Deep State agenda—and this assertion does not depend on coming up with a “precise definition” of the Deep State. Certainly, from ordinary people, whether Democrats, leftists, etc., “support for impeachment” doesn’t really mean much, since no one is asking you anyway. Your role is cheerleader for the system. Really, I think things need to be taken further: Calling out Adam Schiff and his cohort, who are fronting for the CIA and the “intelligence community” is what is needed, which means opposition to this impeachment nonsense. If there was anything like a “true Left” today, one that embodied the spirit of the Sixties Left, but under very different conditions—these conditions, unfortunately, having knocked the current Left for a crazy and terrible loop, to put things politely, this exposure and opposition to the impeachment Schiff-show is what would be happening.)
>> 
>> Bullshit.  tRump isn't being impeached because he's a reformer who is courageously challenging the Deep State.  What a joke.  He's being impeached because he has flouted the Constitution in every way imaginable.  He's an amoral, narcissistic coprophage who has alienated practically every one of our allies, fractured the country domestically, assaulted the environment, and brought calumny on the United States.  Sure, this telephone call with the Ukrainian leader is only a hook on which to hang the hat of impeachment, and we know that the Republican Senate isn't going to convict him anyway.  But if there has ever been a President in our nation's history who has deserved to be impeached, this guy is it.   Otherwise we may as well just throw the Constitution completely out the window and let the fascists run things the way they see fit.
>> 
>> And by the way, Gentle Readers.....We've had the Deep State for quite a long time now, as Carl is always so faithful to point out, and I feel safe in saying that we will always have the Deep State.  We've had war since there were human beings on the planet.  tRump is not going to put an end to either of those things.  It's not even in his consciousness.  So why keep yammering about it?  Can you really not find anything more productive to talk about and protest and work toward?  Maybe something actually attainable?
>> 
>> 
>> ‘[Your comments are welcome, but comments about 1) my supposed obsession with Hillary (no, I’m more obsessed with liberal and left affirmation of the deplorables remark—and another important term here is “rural”); 2) the demand to have precise definitions of things (I have been inspired/provoked by such demands to write a glossary for the book I am presently completing, but there is plenty enough to go on in the CounterPunch*** articles already published) before “discussion” can continue (I’m not going to get into some purely semantic exercise to let people get away with siding with the CIA, okay? –so just deal with that; and, as far as the hardened Trump-haters are concerned, who view everything through the lens of “Trump must go, regardless of the shortcomings of the Democrats,” I’m not interested in meeting your demands in any case—that would be both impossible and pointless); 3) my “just repeating GOP talking points,” or comments that are just name-calling—I won’t respond to such comments, and will probably delete them, because they are unhelpful and I’ve already given enough play to such things; the exception is if the comment works as good self-exposure (as they say in football, an “own-goal”) of the person who makes the comment.]
>> 
>> ***(I will write a separate post regarding this when I have the situation sorted, but some reading this may be interested in know that I’ve now been deplatformed by CounterPunch. I knew that I would go too far at some point, given the general trend there lately, as well-represented by a recent article by Andrew Levine (whose work, especially on Rousseau, Kant, Marx, Rawls, analytical Marxism, and Althusser, I have admired for many years), “Get Trump First, But Then …” (Nov. 15). I’m not angry, I will remain grateful to Jeffrey St. Clair for going as far as he has with me, though I’m a little sad and disappointed, especially because I hoped to wrap up my Trump series at CounterPunch and then put it all together in a book. Now I’ll need to do this somewhere else, I’ll let you know where—I had two articles in the pipeline, one on the impeachment nonsense, the other on the coup in Bolivia, I hope to have them out soon.)’
>> 
>> ~ Bill Martin
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