[Peace] Fwd: Ambassador Dennis Ross

Mon Mar 4 16:41:32 CST 2002

These are all good points.  I hope some or all of you might feel like
raising these points, perhaps not to change foreign policy directly (because
it probably won't), but maybe to sway a few minds.

Arun "simply the messenger, as I thought someone here might find it 
interesting" Bhalla

David Green writes:
> I'll try:
> 
> Under Oslo, or in the months after 9/93, about 17% of
> the occupied territories was designated Area A, under
> Palestinian administrative and police control. 27% was
> Area B, under Palestinian Authority administration but
> Israeli military control. The rest remained under
> complete Israeli control. Sure, it's often stated that
> 95% of the Palestinians were governed by the PA, but
> this is meaningless in terms of control of the land,
> resources, and freedom of movement.
> 
> All one needs to know is that Palestinian police were
> essentially doing the dirty work that the Israeli
> military no longer wanted to do in controlling the
> Palestinian population. In the old days, this was
> called "collaboration." Patronage and graft in the
> Palestinian Authority ensued, as well as other forms
> of oppression and repression. What did not ensue was
> signficant movement towards a just "final status" of
> the occupied territories, as settlements, bypass
> roads, and checkpoints increased, not decreased,
> during the period from 1993 to the beginning of the
> current intifada. The number of settlers doubled. The
> territories we "de-developed" economically for the
> Palestinians, the water resources dominated by Israel,
> not to mention the land being used to dump toxic
> waste. Whatever hopes the Palestinians had for a
> economically and culturally viable state evaporated
> amidst not only the snailspace negotiations that were
> predictably stymied by Israeli invocations of
> technicalities (for example, the much-heralded Wye
> Agreement of 1998, which collapsed under the weight of
> ridiculous Israeli stonewalling), but by increasing
> "facts on the ground" in the occupied territories
> which only made an agreement increasingly more
> difficult in terms of the political "cost" to Israeli
> settlers (in East Jerusalem as well as the West Bank
> and Gaza).
> 
> Ultimately the Palestinian authority "controlled" 17%
> of the 22% of Palestine that constitutes the occupied
> territories. That sounds to me like less than 4% of
> their original territory. But even that control was
> always at Israel's pleasure, as recent events prove.
> The "peace process," in terms of holding out genuine
> hope for Palestinian independence from Israel, was
> thus a fraud and a sham. The occupied territories have
> continued to be occupied the entire time, as
> Palestinians have no comparable means to defend
> themselves.
> 
> David Green
> 
> 
> 
> --- Al Kagan <akagan at uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > Sorry, I should have been more specific.  Under the
> > Oslo accords, 
> > there are now different areas with various
> > designations on a scale of 
> > self-governance.  These are now being violated by
> > the current Israeli 
> > govt.  Perhaps David Green can give you the
> > overview.
> > 
> > >i'm a little shaky on recent israeli history. 
> > would you remind me when
> > >israel gave up rights to gaza and the west bank,
> > such that they can
> > >reannex it now?
> > >
> > >thanks
> > >kathryn
> > >
> > >On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Al Kagan wrote:
> > >
> > >>  I would put it differently.  The previous
> > Israeli Govt wanted
> > >>  "peace," but peace on its terms.  They wanted a
> > bantustan situation
> > >>  as under apartheid in South Africa.  They wanted
> > a Palestinian state
> > >>  that could be internationally recognized and
> > that would not be viable
> > >>  without Israeli control.  Of course, this could
> > never work in the
> > >>  long run.  The current Israeli Govt appears to
> > want to reannex the
> > >>  whole West Bank and Gaza.
> > >>
> > >>  >Arun, given that 'what has gone wrong with the
> > peace process' is that
> > >>  >neither the US or Israel wanted it, I'm
> > wondering what Ambassador Ross has
> > >>  >to say? Is this more State supported
> > propanganda, to continue to confuse
> > >>  >people about US-Israel-Palestinian relations?
> > >>  >
> > >>  >
> > >>  >On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Arun Bhalla wrote:
> > >>  >
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>  ------- Forwarded Message
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>  UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR DENNIS ROSS will be
> > speaking THIS 
> > >>WEDNESDAY on "The
> > >>  >>  Path to Peace: Where Are We Now?" in
> > FOELLINGER AUDITORIUM AT 7PM.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>  Ambassador Ross sat at the table alongside
> > President Clinton, 
> > >>Israeli and
> > >>  >>  Palestinian leadership throughout the
> > historic peace negotiations of the
> > >>  >>  1990's. This is a once in a life-time
> > opportunity to hear a first-hand
> > >>  >>  account of what has gone wrong with the
> > peace process, and 
> > >>what it will take
> > >>  >>  to achieve peace in the Middle East. For
> > more information about the US
> > >>  >>  Ambassador visit:
> > >>  >> 
> >
> http://www.harrywalker.com/speakers_template.cfm?SPEA_ID=453
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>  This event is FREE. Doors open at 6:00.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>  ------- End of Forwarded Message
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>  >>  Peace mailing list
> > >>  >>  Peace at lists.groogroo.com
> > >>  >> 
> > http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >
> > >>  >_______________________________________________
> > >>  >Peace mailing list
> > >>  >Peace at lists.groogroo.com
> > >> 
> > >http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > 
> > Al Kagan
> > African Studies Bibliographer and Professor of
> > Library Administration
> > Africana Unit, Room 328
> > University of Illinois Library
> > 1408 W. Gregory Drive
> > Urbana, IL 61801, USA
> > 
> > tel. 217-333-6519
> > fax. 217-333-2214
> > e-mail. akagan at uiuc.edu
> 
> 
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--
Arun Bhalla