[Peace] Re: misgivings on Iraq War: A Four Year Reflection

[wyatt2 at uiuc.edu]

I disagree, Mr. Morenz.  I feel that the American flag (at this point in time) is too far gone to be taken back.  This isn't just a recent developement either as Mr. Smith pointed out.  So, it's not a matter of taking back the symbol since the symbol hasn't stood for those principles in a very long time.  

I think using the American flag (and only the American flag) to represent American deaths would be trying to honoring their deaths.  We should honor the people who died, of course, but we should not pretend that how they died was honorable and that they were defending America in the process.  To say that is a disgrace to the men and women in the military; to say that their death was neccessary to keep us safe is a disgrace to their name because it is a lie.

Also, why is the American flag the only symbol that can be patriotic?  I consider patriotism to be belief in humanity, democracy, and freedom.  Why do we need a symbol to rally behind in the first place?  Aren't these beliefs enough to bring us together for a common good?

The fact is (as this email discussion has shown), that the flag means different things to different people.  Therefore, who is right is irrelevant and we must look at the overall message we want to send.  If American flags are going to give mixed messages to people who support the anti-war movement, then I think we need to reconsider using flags and focus on sending a CLEAR message using a different symbol.  That message being, we are against the occupation in Iraq (and as a member of Campus Anti-war Network we should be against ALL wars and occupations).

Steven Wyatt
International Socialist Organization Treasurer
Campus Anti-war Network Treasurer

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Mark Morenz <marketype at yahoo.com>  
>Subject: Re: [Peace] Re: misgivings on Iraq War: A Four Year Reflection  
>To: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com, "msmith46 at uiuc.edu" <msmith46 at uiuc.edu>
>Cc: akaplan3 at law.uiuc.edu, codybralts at gmail.com, pmcguir3 at uiuc.edu, Kevin Hartman <khartma1 at gmail.com>, enslin.mark at gmail.com, carol inskeep <carolinskeep at yahoo.com>, coalition at iresist.org, lale at uiuc.edu, Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, esbenshd at uni.uiuc.edu, mmarti46 at uiuc.edu, azimmer2 at uiuc.edu, Peace List <peace at lists.chambana.net>, Tom Abram <tabram at gmail.com>, can.uiuc at gmail.com, prhombe2 at uiuc.edu, wpituc2 at uiuc.edu, wyatt2 at uiuc.edu, ccalvey2 at uiuc.edu, jtmiller at ad.uiuc.edu, nich.shoom at gmail.com, mukta_tripathy at yahoo.com, rhomberger3000 at gmail.com, miebach2 at uiuc.edu, cajindos at uiuc.edu, clairewang002 at gmail.com, eesch at uiuc.edu, ayalat at uiuc.edu, cge at shout.net, Christopher Dressel <cdresse2 at uiuc.edu>, Eric Uskali <euskali2 at uiuc.edu>
>
>I agree with Mr. Naiman and I feel that Mr. Smith was
>factually incorrect when he said: 
>"...the U.S. flag can't be symbol [sic] of justice and
>freedom when it was used to justify the genocidal
>conquest of Native Americans, the seizure of half of
>Mexico and the slavery and racism suffered by African 
>Americans."
>
>The flag as a symbol is merely a vessel. If we concede
>that we can't use it for our own symbolic purposes we
>are ceding it to those who (in my opinion) are less
>worthy-- to those who hypocritically speak about
>freedom while they enslave others and to those who
>commit crimes in the name of justice. We should not
>give up the high ground. We are no less deserving of
>using the flag. We are no less patriotic. We are no
>less religious...we should stop allowing the
>right-wing to monopolize these idioms-- in my opinion.
>
>:-{)]
>
>Mark A. Morenz 
>
>
>--- Robert Naiman  <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was very disturbed to receive this email.
>> 
>
>Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).
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