Fwd: Fw: [Peace] Candlelight vigil TODAY: Thursday (July 9th), 8:30pm, Alma Mater

Fri Jul 10 11:46:34 CDT 2009

I didn't want to respond to this email originally. And, honestly, I don't
think that AWARE or any other hardcore ideologically oriented  group in the
US can help the Iranian movement due to their rigid ideology and
predisposition toward status quo(because whatever anyone is doing must be
somehow instigated by the capitalist-imperialist governments of US and
Western Europe! Thus, any such effort is inexorably "bad", "played in the
hands of capitalists", "ill conceived",... ) I just write this email out of
my personal respect for the basic ideas of the socialism/communism and those
who put so much effort in ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING to improve the conditions
of the people.

"without knowing just what the demonstrators were originally demonstrating
for"? Are you serious? Everyone knows that people demonstrated to protest
the election result. But, of course, thats the much beloved familiar
rhetoric: many dont know, many really dont understand,.... You can't just
stop thinking that people are stupid and idiot, can you?

"without really knowing what has occurred in the election or on the streets
and what policies are represented by what factions"? Once again! "without
really knowing", huh? because those "many" whom you are refering to are
shallow people, the "masses" whom you should "enlighten". Oh people! come
listen, and I tell you what "really" is going on. I have broke into the CIA
last night and found the new undeniable evidence that clearly shows what's
"really" going on. Or maybe not, I have spent all my life studying Marx,
Lenin, and Trotsky, and maybe a couple of others, and thus, I know whats
"really" going on for the rest of the history of mankind, let it be in the
Middle East, or Africa, or Asia, or Europe, or Latin America, or.... You
just can believe that you dont know some stuff, can you?

"There is much self righteous ranting, with many specious assertions,"
Really? who? lemme think...."Phil Wilayto has it right. Pugliese, Elbaum and
others, perhaps blinded by their distaste for the theocracy of the Iranian
regime and Ahmadinejad, are steering in a direction which will simply
further damage the anti-war movement." ...Oh people! listen to me, "Phil is
right", but "others" including millions of demonstrators in Iran and
thousands of Iranian demonstrators outside Iran "are perhaps blinded". You
have no shame, do you?

"but little hard evidence one way or the other." That's true sir, we don't
have access to the top secret documents of CIA as you do because we are not
as couragious as you, Mr. vanguard, to break into their buildings and find
the truth. "hard evidence"? I'm glad that you are not responsible for
decision-making for an ongoing genocide case sir because you couldn't find
any "hard evidence" until everyone is dead. I mean, unless you break into
the CIA offices again and find some "hard evidence". You feel like a deep
thinker, don't you?

In every contemporary movement, there are groups within the large mobilized
body of the people who are played in the hands of foreign countries, US,
Russia, their neighboring countries,.... There are agents provocateurs,
there are people with all sorts of intentions and financed by all sort of
groups. Does it mean that we shouldn't help any mass movement? Here are a
bunch of people living under dictatorship, (hopefully, we dont need more
"hard evidence" to prove this), and don't have the simplest rights such as
freedom of speech, assembly,...., in a country with no independent
judiciary(and, please don't compare US Supreme Court with the Iranian
Council of Guardian because that's just stupid. None of them are "ideal",
but there is a huge difference.)  And, they believe that the election was
fraud. And, because there is no independent judiciary, and because evrything
is in the hands of the incumbant, and because there is no free media, and
because scores are activists and journalists have been arrested, and... you
will never find the "hard evidence" that there has been fraud, that there
has been arrests and torture and killing and night raids into people's
houses, and fear, and arbitrary rule, and... until the regime is gone or
forced to open up. There is never "hard evidence" until years later, haven't
you seen that how tricky is to find evidence to convict people who are so
widely believed to have committed massacres? Oh, I see, that's because those
are capitalis courts. Of course, if ...was there, he'd make it sooo
right...as history shows!

We are saying something as simple as we, the UIUC Iranian students, are
having a simple vigil night to mourn and honor those who were killed in Iran
in the recent demonstrations for freedom and democracy; and, you are saying
it's ill conceived.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe it's the capitalist's conspiracy that
makes you think that it's always "them" who are running the affairs so that
you don't support any movement, so that the status quo prevails? Yea, this
is your own language, very familiar, No? Perhaps you are blinded by your
perception that whatever you do it right, and whatever everyone else does is
either ill intended or somehow instigated by the US government in a
mysterious way.

Sorry for my rough English. Well, of course, I'm a foreign kid who barely
knows Egnlish and easily is manipulated by US government! ah huh! You just
found your "hard evidence", didn't you?

Good Luck. I won't engage in more conversation here because I simply don't
think, after quite a few tried with a few groups with leftist/socialist
orientation on C-U, that any good comes out of it. I'm amazed and surprised,
but mostly disappointed that how such vivid and humanitarian thoughts have
become so impotent in the hands of incompetent super-oppiniated
pseudo-activists who just want and only care to prove that they are right
and their worldview is accurate.

Mehdi

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: nasrin sarrafi <nasrinsarrafi at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Subject: Fw: [Peace] Candlelight vigil TODAY: Thursday (July 9th), 8:30pm,
Alma Mater
To: mshadme2 at illinois.edu

----- Forwarded Message ----
*From:* Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
*To:* Randall Cotton <recotton at earthlink.net>
*Cc:* Peace at lists.chambana.net
*Sent:* Thursday, 9 July, 2009 9:43:21
*Subject:* Re: [Peace] Candlelight vigil TODAY: Thursday (July 9th), 8:30pm,
Alma Mater

I believe that this vigil is ill conceived. Here is what I wrote for the
UFPJ list serve:
It is clear that many are willing on this list and elsewhere to lend support
to demonstrations against the Iranian regime without knowing just what the
demonstrators were originally demonstrating for, without really knowing what
has occurred in the election or on the streets and what policies are
represented by what factions. There is much self righteous ranting, with
many specious assertions, but little hard evidence one way or the other. And
that is why expressing "solidarity" with the protestors at this point seems
more than imprudent; it plays into the hands of our government's wishes and
actions against Iran. Phil Wilayto has it right. Pugliese, Elbaum and
others, perhaps blinded by their distaste for the theocracy of the Iranian
regime and Ahmadinejad, are steering in a direction which will simply
further damage the anti-war movement.
--mkb

And here is what another, Keven Zeese,  has noted on that listserve:

We have all seen how infiltrators in U.S. demonstrations can escalate beyond
a peaceful demonstration and give the police an opportunity to make
arrests.  What if the U.S. and its allies inside and outside of Iran have
paid infiltrators who escalate the "reform" demonstrations to violence (some
of the violence by "reform" demonstrators was described in Phil's article --
I urge people to read it as it is a very thorough and convincing analysis,
http://votersforpeace.us/press/index.php?itemid=2131) in order to push the
government to react?  Then, our support of the demonstrators is actually
supporting efforts by outsiders, i.e. the U.S. and others (primarily Israel
and Saudi Arabia), to undermine the Iranian government and set the stage for
a military attack on that country.  That all seems very plausible to me,
knowing how the U.S. and its allies act. And, knowing how long regime change
has been U.S. policy including paying terrorists to act inside Iran.  If the
U.S. government is supporting the "reform" demonstrators doesn't that give
peace activists pause?  How often do we find ourselves agreeing with the
U.S. government's foreign policy, especially in Iran?

Phil Wilato's analysis is worth reading.

--mkb

On Jul 9, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Randall Cotton wrote:

: ---------- Forwarded message ----------
: From: UIUC-Iran Candlelight Vigil <uiuc.iranfreeelection at gmail.com>
: Date: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:29 PM
: Subject: Candlelight vigil: Thursday (July 9th), 8:30pm, Alma Mater
: To: UIUC-Iran Candlelight Vigil <uiuc.iranfreeelection at gmail.com>
:
:
: Dear friends,
:
: Iran is observing days of mourning in memorial of the martyrs of recent
: crisis, Neda and our other brothers and sisters. Also, many of the
students,
: journalists, reformists, and protesters have been detained with their
: whereabouts mostly unknown, and their families are experiencing very
hard
: times. We would like to invite you to join us for the candlelight vigil
to
: remember and honor those killed and detained during peaceful activities
for
: democracy and freedom in Iran.
:
: You are most welcome to invite your non-Iranian friends. For more
: information, please visit  "UIUC candlelight vigil" event at facebook.
: *Details:
: *Location: *Alma Mater (Corner of Green and Wright, Urbana, IL)
: *Date:*Thursday, July 9th
: *
: Time: *8:30-9:30 pm*
:
: There are only a limited number of candles available, so we appreciate
: greatly if you bring your own candles. Also, for those of you who missed
the
: opportunity to sign the Green Scroll, it will be there to be signed.
:
: Thanks,
: -organizers
:

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