[Peace] [Peace-discuss] This list is for brief announcements only
Sarah Phillips
justswim07 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 22 12:04:51 CDT 2010
I second that one, Katina. As a student who likes to attend peace events
once in awhile when I have the time, I'd prefer to decide if I want to
engage in discussions, or listen in on them. The negativity has become a
little overwhelming on an event list-serv. Thanks all.
Sarah Phillips
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Katina Bolos <katworm1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you want to have a discussion please take it elsewhere or at least
> please stop hitting reply all. It is not that we do not want to hear *what
> * you have to say but rather that your negativity is not something most
> peaceful people appreciate. Thank you.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:
>
>> Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?
>>
>> 'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the right
>> to tell people what they do not want to hear'.
>>
>> Amen.
>>
>> On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace
>>>> Discuss?
>>>>
>>>> I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing
>>>> people
>>>> in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
>>>>
>>> Carl, and all,
>>>
>>> Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
>>> It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
>>> who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
>>>
>>> If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues
>>> involved,
>>> please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
>>>
>>> On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/*
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>> To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss"
>>>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon
>>>>> calls
>>>>> "The
>>>>> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a
>>>>> million
>>>>> people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that
>>>>> the
>>>>> tens
>>>>> of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under
>>>>> Bush;
>>>>> and
>>>>> apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third
>>>>> (Obama)
>>>>> term.
>>>>>
>>>>> That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but
>>>>> of
>>>>> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified
>>>>> by
>>>>> being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes
>>>>> a
>>>>> tick
>>>>> up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser
>>>>> Zbigniew
>>>>> Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan
>>>>> (before
>>>>> the
>>>>> Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as
>>>>> he
>>>>> said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.
>>>>>
>>>>> If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war
>>>>> to
>>>>> an
>>>>> end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded
>>>>> by
>>>>> Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The
>>>>> news
>>>>> suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war
>>>>> with
>>>>> an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to
>>>>> abandon
>>>>> the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>>>>>
>>>>> Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US
>>>>> foreign
>>>>> policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to
>>>>> "stop
>>>>> terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie,
>>>>> because
>>>>> the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast
>>>>> is
>>>>> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of
>>>>> September
>>>>> 2001
>>>>> - which is directed against terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in
>>>>> America,
>>>>> "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb
>>>>> Caen:
>>>>> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The
>>>>> Russians
>>>>> did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from
>>>>> office
>>>>> and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army
>>>>> to
>>>>> do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, CGE
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either
>>>>>> Iraq
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about
>>>>>> them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
>>>>>> And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> mind
>>>>>> us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not
>>>>>> all of
>>>>>> us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple
>>>>>> solutions
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
>>>>>> All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> behind you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>> *To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace List
>>>>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> </mc/compose?to=
>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net>;
>>>>>> Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII -
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic
>>>>>> administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their
>>>>>> policies.
>>>>>> Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians,
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of
>>>>>> despair,
>>>>>> if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
>>>>>> surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc.
>>>>>> --CGE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/
>>>>>>> agree
>>>>>>> with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> 100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that
>>>>>>> way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>>> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> *Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss
>>>>>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> would contribute to him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another request for help...
>>>>>>>> I love this guy!
>>>>>>>> --Jenifer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
>>>>>>>> /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>
>>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>/*wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Make 10 calls now!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>>> >*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Jenifer,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This election is about the people standing against corporate
>>>>>>>> special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying
>>>>>>>> ads
>>>>>>>> because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote
>>>>>>>> – people can.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Central Florida are voting right now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our
>>>>>>>> winning
>>>>>>>> margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and
>>>>>>>> asking
>>>>>>>> them to vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>> or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>>> >*?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting
>>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Truth,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan Grayson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make
>>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>>> on another day between now and Election Day, November 2.
>>>>>>>> Every
>>>>>>>> voter you talk to will make a difference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Sign up now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>>> >*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan
>>>>>>>> Grayson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> empowered by Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
>>>>>>>> Web Bug from
>>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
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