From stuartnlevy at gmail.com  Thu Dec  1 05:31:02 2016
From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (stuartnlevy)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:31:02 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Iraq tribunal / petition to the ICC to examine US war
 crimes -- Fwd: Our Chance to Hold War Makers Accountable
Message-ID: <dn3v9mcptyqbdcw5b8jft2g3.1480436036698@email.android.com>


-------- Original message --------From: "World Beyond War via WorldBeyondWar.org" <info at worldbeyondwar.org> Date: 11/29/16  09:27  (GMT-06:00) To: stuartnlevy at gmail.com Subject: Our Chance to Hold War Makers Accountable 

    
      
        
          
            
              
                

  
    
      
        
          
            
As the International Criminal Court loses any remaining credibility as a truly international and neutral body, it has finally claimed to be considering investigating certain war crimes of the world's greatest wager of war.


If the ICC hears from people all over the world, including from the United States, that we want U.S. war makers held accountable the same as any others, the ICC just might save itself and the idea of international justice along with it.






To:
    Fatou Bensouda, Prosecutor for the International Criminal Court
    



    
        We encourage you to also prosecute war crimes by non-Africans including by U.S. war criminals. SIGN HERE.
        

    

    Why is this important?
    

    
        The ICC is degrading rather than enhancing the idea 
            of international justice by giving a free pass to Western war makers. 
            The United States has itself given a free pass to its war makers, 
            kidnappers, torturers, and assassins. The U.S. president-elect and his 
            advisors openly plan to violate laws against war, torture, and the 
            targeting of civilians. The people of the United States and the world 
            need the ICC to fulfill its mission and step in where domestic justice 
            has failed.
        

         Background:

> Preliminary ICC report on consideration of investigating U.S. crimes in Afghanistan and at secret sites in other countries.

> New York Times report.

> Congressman Ted Lieu on U.S. and Saudi war crimes in Yemen.

> John LaForge article.
        

    

ADD YOUR NAME.



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http://IraqTribunal.org



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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec  1 17:07:04 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 11:07:04 -0600
Subject: [Peace] URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy,
	Franken help ASAP on free speech
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQPi_OFWx-yEGVenj11pkaDdfuF1_hne1wgz1NKLS1jbQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
Date: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:16 AM
Subject: URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy, Franken help ASAP on free
speech

Some of you have probably seen this already, a really problematic bill that
conflates anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel. Seems to be moving
through the Senate very quickly.



https://www.casey.senate.gov/newsroom/releases/with-attacks-
on-the-rise-sens-casey-and-scott-introduce-bipartisan-
anti-semitism-awareness-act



This may be useful: a 2015 report from the Foundation for Individual Rights
in Education that adopting this definition of anti-Semitism would likely
violate the 1st amendment:

https://www.thefire.org/state-departments-anti-semitism-defi
nition-would-likely-violate-first-amendment-on-public-campuses/



It also needs to be pointed out to each of the orgs backing this -- AIPAC,
ADL, Wiesenthal Center, and Jewish Federations -- that they can't ever
again claim that anti-Semitism accusations aren't used to chill criticism
of Israel.


Hearing confirmed for today. Will come up on the floor and it will pass by
unanimous consent if another Senator does not object. Calls to Casey are
needed now asking him to hold off. Calls to other Senators (especially
Leahy, Durbin, Murphy, Franken, Murray, Reid, Paul, Lee) asking them to
object.  Letters from organizations would also be helpful to let them know
this is not a non-controversial naming of a post-office to pass under
unanimous consent.
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From niloofar.peace at gmail.com  Thu Dec  1 20:37:32 2016
From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 14:37:32 -0600
Subject: [Peace] URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy,
 Franken help ASAP on free speech
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNQPi_OFWx-yEGVenj11pkaDdfuF1_hne1wgz1NKLS1jbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQPi_OFWx-yEGVenj11pkaDdfuF1_hne1wgz1NKLS1jbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFLceazMcAaUmpzCe=n9qZ8cX8g9m+0nmyX3UE7OuDnghfM4yg@mail.gmail.com>

Robert,


Below are the phone numbers of the senators you mentioned in your email.
Don't know if this is already too late or not. The only Lee I found is a
Republican.


Everyone, please, call! We shouldn't allow criticism of Israel be legally
conflated with anti-semitism. A bill to protect us from white supremacists
must include all the other groups that are being targeted.



*Casey, Robert P., Jr. - (D - PA)      *

*(202) 224-6324*



Durbin, Richard J. - (D - IL)

 (202) 224-2152



Franken, Al - (D - MN)

(202) 224-5641



Paul, Rand - (R - KY)

(202) 224-4343



Murphy, Christopher - (D - CT)

(202) 224-4041



Lee, Mike - (R - UT)

(202) 224-5444



Leahy, Patrick J. - (D - VT)

(202) 224-4242



Murray, Patty - (D - WA)

 (202) 224-2621



Reid, Harry - (D - NV)

(202) 224-3542

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> Date: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:16 AM
> Subject: URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy, Franken help ASAP on free
> speech
>
> Some of you have probably seen this already, a really problematic bill
> that conflates anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel. Seems to be moving
> through the Senate very quickly.
>
>
>
> https://www.casey.senate.gov/newsroom/releases/with-attacks-
> on-the-rise-sens-casey-and-scott-introduce-bipartisan-anti-
> semitism-awareness-act
>
>
>
> This may be useful: a 2015 report from the Foundation for Individual
> Rights in Education that adopting this definition of anti-Semitism would
> likely violate the 1st amendment:
>
> https://www.thefire.org/state-departments-anti-semitism-defi
> nition-would-likely-violate-first-amendment-on-public-campuses/
>
>
>
> It also needs to be pointed out to each of the orgs backing this -- AIPAC,
> ADL, Wiesenthal Center, and Jewish Federations -- that they can't ever
> again claim that anti-Semitism accusations aren't used to chill criticism
> of Israel.
>
>
> Hearing confirmed for today. Will come up on the floor and it will pass by
> unanimous consent if another Senator does not object. Calls to Casey are
> needed now asking him to hold off. Calls to other Senators (especially
> Leahy, Durbin, Murphy, Franken, Murray, Reid, Paul, Lee) asking them to
> object.  Letters from organizations would also be helpful to let them know
> this is not a non-controversial naming of a post-office to pass under
> unanimous consent.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec  1 21:06:47 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 15:06:47 -0600
Subject: [Peace] URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy,
 Franken help ASAP on free speech
In-Reply-To: <CAFLceazMcAaUmpzCe=n9qZ8cX8g9m+0nmyX3UE7OuDnghfM4yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQPi_OFWx-yEGVenj11pkaDdfuF1_hne1wgz1NKLS1jbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFLceazMcAaUmpzCe=n9qZ8cX8g9m+0nmyX3UE7OuDnghfM4yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQbPH_6f=VWyb0X5V8YzBy_7H1CcWp8OQZ_3--kvqOxZg@mail.gmail.com>

Game over. We lost.

>From FCNL:

We heard the bill just passed the Senate by UC. I spoke to a senator’s
office that did put a hold on it (and wishes to remain anonymous), but then
Sen Scott went to the floor to request to live UC it, so for a senator to
continue to block it, that would have required that a Senator go down to
the floor and speak on the floor against it. The senator that put a hold on
it did not want to do that, so it passed by UC



Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Niloofar Shambayati <
niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote:

> Robert,
>
>
> Below are the phone numbers of the senators you mentioned in your email.
> Don't know if this is already too late or not. The only Lee I found is a
> Republican.
>
>
> Everyone, please, call! We shouldn't allow criticism of Israel be legally
> conflated with anti-semitism. A bill to protect us from white supremacists
> must include all the other groups that are being targeted.
>
>
>
> *Casey, Robert P., Jr. - (D - PA)      *
>
> *(202) 224-6324 <(202)%20224-6324>*
>
>
>
> Durbin, Richard J. - (D - IL)
>
>  (202) 224-2152
>
>
>
> Franken, Al - (D - MN)
>
> (202) 224-5641
>
>
>
> Paul, Rand - (R - KY)
>
> (202) 224-4343
>
>
>
> Murphy, Christopher - (D - CT)
>
> (202) 224-4041
>
>
>
> Lee, Mike - (R - UT)
>
> (202) 224-5444
>
>
>
> Leahy, Patrick J. - (D - VT)
>
> (202) 224-4242
>
>
>
> Murray, Patty - (D - WA)
>
>  (202) 224-2621
>
>
>
> Reid, Harry - (D - NV)
>
> (202) 224-3542
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>> Date: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:16 AM
>> Subject: URGENT: Need Paul, Lee, Durbin, Murphy, Franken help ASAP on
>> free speech
>>
>> Some of you have probably seen this already, a really problematic bill
>> that conflates anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel. Seems to be moving
>> through the Senate very quickly.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.casey.senate.gov/newsroom/releases/with-attacks-
>> on-the-rise-sens-casey-and-scott-introduce-bipartisan-anti-s
>> emitism-awareness-act
>>
>>
>>
>> This may be useful: a 2015 report from the Foundation for Individual
>> Rights in Education that adopting this definition of anti-Semitism would
>> likely violate the 1st amendment:
>>
>> https://www.thefire.org/state-departments-anti-semitism-defi
>> nition-would-likely-violate-first-amendment-on-public-campuses/
>>
>>
>>
>> It also needs to be pointed out to each of the orgs backing this --
>> AIPAC, ADL, Wiesenthal Center, and Jewish Federations -- that they can't
>> ever again claim that anti-Semitism accusations aren't used to chill
>> criticism of Israel.
>>
>>
>> Hearing confirmed for today. Will come up on the floor and it will pass
>> by unanimous consent if another Senator does not object. Calls to Casey are
>> needed now asking him to hold off. Calls to other Senators (especially
>> Leahy, Durbin, Murphy, Franken, Murray, Reid, Paul, Lee) asking them to
>> object.  Letters from organizations would also be helpful to let them know
>> this is not a non-controversial naming of a post-office to pass under
>> unanimous consent.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>
>>
>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  1 22:58:37 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 22:58:37 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: December 8 - showing of Racial Taboo in Champaign
References: <d25986daa77dee111ea753e1795ed3aba38.20161201210859@mail126.wdc01.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03471339714E1FDB8233D1C4A38F0@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>




We have a firm date, time, and location for the next showing of
the documentary film Racial Taboo.

Jericho Missionary Baptist Church
1601 W. Bloomington Road
Champaign, IL  61821

Thursday, December 8
5:30 pm - doors open
6:00 pm - film screening followed by small group discussion

There is no charge for the film, and we invite everyone to attend.  Please let your friends and acquaintances know that they are welcome.  You may wish to see the film again and discuss it with others.

For more information, contact Amy Felty at asfelty at gmail.com<mailto:asfelty at gmail.com>.

 (For new interviews from Brian Grimm, please visit racialtaboo.org<http://racialtaboo.org/>.)










This email was sent to karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>
why did I get this?<http://facebook.us13.list-manage.com/about?u=d25986daa77dee111ea753e17&id=13882e1bf7&e=95ed3aba38&c=d5e5dca5b8>    unsubscribe from this list<http://facebook.us13.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=d25986daa77dee111ea753e17&id=13882e1bf7&e=95ed3aba38&c=d5e5dca5b8>    update subscription preferences<http://facebook.us13.list-manage.com/profile?u=d25986daa77dee111ea753e17&id=13882e1bf7&e=95ed3aba38>
Racial Taboo group discussion notification list · 1914 Clover Lane · Champaign, Il 61821 · USA

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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec  2 18:16:43 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 12:16:43 -0600
Subject: [Peace] concerning the PDL attack on Ellison
Message-ID: <CALMNhNR9-AngLSywE03swKjPrfe2tTN+CzMzD9XJvyqtiSy=xA@mail.gmail.com>

Ellison asked the PDL for a meeting. The PDL refused to meet with Ellison.



Why did the PDL refuse to meet with Ellison?



Because they were already planning to attack him. If they met with him, it
would have been harder to attack him.



I strongly suspect that the PDL was always planning to attack Ellison. It
was just a question of tempo.



On foreign policy, the PDL is a bad faith actor. On foreign policy, the PDL
is an abuser.



>From now on, when referring to the PDL's work on foreign policy, I will
refer to it as the PDL, to distinguish it from the organization that works
on domestic policy. With regard to the PDL's work on foreign policy, it is
false and misleading advertising to use the other name. I will not use the
other name to refer to the PDL's work on foreign policy until the PDL stops
being an abuser.



The bad news is, the PDL attack on Ellison just made the Ellison thing a
lot harder.



The good news is, when we win the Ellison thing, we beat the PDL. That's
like beating AIPAC on the Iran deal. It makes the future fundamentally
different from the past. It destroys their reputation of invincibility.



PS: In case you were wondering, the real Keith Ellison is right here:


https://keithfordnc.org/platform?utm_source=kec&utm_campaign=platform
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec  2 22:21:21 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:21:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] JFP alert: ADL: Divest from West Bank settlements
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSSvX9U=h35iUPEm-PTcpqxTqdUmbYirzG70D4qCNfTcg@mail.gmail.com>

To be your best,
you must divest.


[image: Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?key=-1&url_num=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjustforeignpolicy.org>

Dear Robert,

*Urge ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt to divest from West Bank settlements.*
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?key=-1&url_num=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetitions.moveon.org%2Fsign%2Fadl_national-disentangle%3Fr_by%3D1135580>

With the rise and election of Trump, anti-Semitism is appearing in
mainstream U.S. discourse in an unprecedented way. At the same time, *false
and grossly exaggerated accusations of anti-Semitism remain a potent
political weapon in U.S. politics*. Now, more than ever, we need
organizations that can serve the public as principled, credible, unbiased
investigators and referees of allegations of anti-Semitism in the U.S.

The Anti-Defamation League would be ideally positioned to occupy this role,
but unfortunately it currently suffers from a perceived *conflict of
interest*. In addition to advocating against anti-Semitism, *the ADL also
advocates for the unfettered expansion and legitimation of settlements in
the West Bank*. The ADL's entanglement in the settlements issue diminishes
the ADL's credibility on anti-Semitism in the eyes of many Americans. If
the ADL accuses an American who opposes the settlements of anti-Semitism, *many
Americans will wonder, rightly or wrongly, if the ADL's advocacy for
settlements is coloring the ADL's judgment*. Thus, *the ADL's settlements
advocacy undermines its ability to combat anti-Semitism*.

*Urge ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt to divest from West Bank settlements by
signing our petition at MoveOn
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?key=-1&url_num=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpetitions.moveon.org%2Fsign%2Fadl_national-disentangle%3Fr_by%3D1135580>.*

Thanks for all you do to help make U.S. foreign policy more just,

Robert Naiman, Avram Reisman, and Sarah Burns
Just Foreign Policy

*Help support our work!*
If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?key=-1&url_num=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justforeignpolicy.org%2Fdonate>

[image: Please support our work. Donate for a Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?key=-1&url_num=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.justforeignpolicy.org%2Fdonate>

© 2016 Just Foreign Policy
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From stuartnlevy at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 23:23:21 2016
From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:23:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] test message, to be routed to AOL for IP probe
Message-ID: <30adf71a-cb34-2735-5f5b-20a2178e0fdb@gmail.com>

This message should be routed to ipconfirm at postmaster.aol.com 
<mailto:ipconfirm at postmaster.aol.com> so that it will report our mail 
server's IP address, which we otherwise won't know.

I hope this will not go out on the actual Peace list.   If you are a 
Peace reader and are seeing this message, I'm sorry to bother you!
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  3 00:06:05 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:06:05 +0000
Subject: [Peace] AWARE demonstration Saturday/Dec. 3rd.
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03476D2266B2904D0D803D43A3810@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

AWARE The anti-war, anti-racism effort of Champaign, Urbana will be holding their 1st. Saturday of the month demonstration against war, Saturday the 3rd., at 2:00-4:00pm., at the corners of Church and Neil St.  

We have plenty of signs available, and plenty to complain about given the wars and killing continue. 


From stuartnlevy at gmail.com  Sat Dec  3 00:15:40 2016
From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 18:15:40 -0600
Subject: [Peace] AWARE anti-war demonstration tomorrow, Sat 12/3, 2-4pm
Message-ID: <516a6b56-1261-5060-20aa-ab2d8fea992a@gmail.com>

The wars are still on, and we can still stand up to oppose them.

Neither of the major party Presidential candidates was any sort of peace 
candidate.   Let's remind the people of Champaign-Urbana that it's still 
worth speaking out against war even while we live a system that thrives 
on promoting it.

Join us if you like at the usual place and time - 2-4PM, first Saturday 
of the month (tomorrow 12/3), at the corner of Main and Neil in downtown 
Champaign.
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From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  3 00:18:25 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67)
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2016 18:18:25 -0600
Subject: [Peace] AWARE demonstration Saturday/Dec. 3rd.
Message-ID: <yc29hcebs11iwn52ujff8n37.1480724305299@email.android.com>

You could go shopping, but what the world really needs is peace. 
Please dress warm, with gloves and hats. It is a cold world on the streets. 
Downtown Champaign, IL
-------- Original message --------From: Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> Date: 12/2/16  18:06  (GMT-06:00) To: peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> Subject: [Peace] AWARE demonstration Saturday/Dec. 3rd. 
AWARE The anti-war, anti-racism effort of Champaign, Urbana will be holding their 1st. Saturday of the month demonstration against war, Saturday the 3rd., at 2:00-4:00pm., at the corners of Church and Neil St.  

We have plenty of signs available, and plenty to complain about given the wars and killing continue. 

_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Sat Dec  3 01:51:56 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 19:51:56 -0600
Subject: [Peace] AWARE anti-war demonstration tomorrow, Sat 12/3, 2-4pm
In-Reply-To: <516a6b56-1261-5060-20aa-ab2d8fea992a@gmail.com>
References: <516a6b56-1261-5060-20aa-ab2d8fea992a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74860273-F49F-4B10-BFEB-E16C2A631C86@newsfromneptune.com>

Glen Ford pointed out months ago that it was a mistake not to see any difference in the major party presidential candidates in regard to war:

<http://blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire <http://blackagendareport.com/trump_anti-empire>>.

And it’s worthwhile to recall that Obama became president in part by co-opting the anti-war movement.

Our task today is to contribute to the re-constitution of that movement.

 "All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

—CGE


> On Dec 2, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Stuart Levy via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> The wars are still on, and we can still stand up to oppose them.
> 
> Neither of the major party Presidential candidates was any sort of peace candidate.   Let's remind the people of Champaign-Urbana that it's still worth speaking out against war even while we live a system that thrives on promoting it.
> 
> Join us if you like at the usual place and time - 2-4PM, first Saturday of the month (tomorrow 12/3), at the corner of Main and Neil in downtown Champaign.
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Sun Dec  4 01:58:31 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 19:58:31 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's Traumatized
	Communities
In-Reply-To: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
Message-ID: <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>

MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.

All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 

For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.

Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.

They might succeed.  

(BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)

—CGE


> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Supporter,
> 
> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
> 
> Take Action
> 
> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
> 
> Hillel said: 
> 
> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
> If not now, when?"
> 
> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
> 
> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
> 
> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
> 
> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Just Foreign Policy
> 
> Help support our work!
> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
> 
> 
> 
> 


From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec  4 13:04:18 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 07:04:18 -0600
Subject: [Peace] J Street's Jeremy Ben-Ami on the Jewish "witch hunt"
	against Keith Ellison
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQAOHnbmtFgzXN+zYJo4hW_70F4VmBdv1e5gXKJAJEfNQ@mail.gmail.com>

[...]

Ben-Ami spoke at a Jewish forum on Israel at B’nai Jeshurun, a synagogue on
NY’s Upper West Side. Jane Eisner, the editor of the Forward, said that
the Keith Ellison statement that had “bubbled up” that afternoon was
“awful” and that he has a “rather troubling record” on Israel. But she said
she might be willing to dismiss things he had said “offhandedly,” the same
way the Jewish community can dismiss the fact that Pentagon pick General
James Mattis once said Israel is headed
<http://mondoweiss.net/2016/11/consideration-impending-apartheid/> for
“apartheid.”

Ben-Ami responded:

I just have to jump in for his defense. I think that there’s nothing
troubling about his record. I think that the witch hunt that is going on on
Keith Ellison is reminiscent of the witch hunt that goes on every single
time somebody who has dared to criticize the policies of the government of
Israel steps forward and has a potential to hold position in this country.
And the ADL and other organizations come after them until they’re driven
out of the competition for that job and I think it’s a very bad tendency of
our community.

Ben-Ami said he has no preference for Democratic party chair, but that
Ellison must be allowed to be critical of Israel.

I have traveled with Keith to Israel. I’ve gone to Sderot and talked with
the Israeli victims of the rockets from Gaza. We have met with Israelis and
Palestinians together. There is no one more committed to a two state
solution for the sake of Israel’s security than Keith Ellison….

I do have a stake in the dynamic in America where people like Keith who are
critical of Israeli policy end up cast as having a quote unquote troubling
record on Israel. It’s not a troubling record. He’s critical of the
policies of the government of Israel.

Then he addressed the quote in question and said he has said the same:

And he is calling out the fact that the voices that push for policies here
are very very powerful. And the quote that was quoted was him speaking to
Arab Americans, saying, If you want to have a say, then you have to learn
the way the Jewish Americans do it. I say that to the Arab American
leaders…. You have to be organized.

Look at what the Jewish community has done for the last 50, 60 years. I’m
proud of it. I’m proud of AIPAC. I’m proud of what we’ve done to build the
us Israel relationship. You do the same, get a PAC, get a lobby, get
organized.

Michael Makovsky, a neoconservative who heads the Jewish Institute for
National Security Affairs, then said — the panel was all Zionists, no
Jewish anti-Zionists, don’t you worry about that — then said that Ellison
was no James Mattis. Obviously reading from talking points, Makovsky said
that Ellison had been a “member of Farrakhan’s organization the Nation of
Islam,” that in 2007 he compared 9/11 attacks to the Reichstag fire as a
conspiracy to gain political power, and that in 2014 he was one of eight
House members who voted against giving Israel $225 million for military
batteries depleted after its assault on Gaza.

Again Ben-Ami leapt to Ellison’s defense. Ellison had apologized for the
2007 remark and he had voted for military aid to Israel “across the board.”
He had not done so in 2014 on procedural grounds. “He is a staunch
supporter of Israel’s security.”

Then Ben-Ami lumped Makovsky in with the Jewish community’s witch hunt:

To go on this kind of witch hunt where you continue to throw things out
about him to imply something about him that isn’t true is what’s wrong with
the way we discuss Israel in this community. We slander the reputation and
name of a good man who is a friend of Israel and is looking to achieve
peace and security not just for Israel but for the Palestinian people.


[...]

http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/witchhunt-comments-tendency/

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec  4 14:44:26 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 08:44:26 -0600
Subject: [Peace] J Street: Continuing Attacks on Congressman Ellison Seek To
 Silence Legitimate Positions on Israel
Message-ID: <CALMNhNRg92PbkGB1i1rN8y06MAsfEu6wu9HXZb-CYOn4q0A+zA@mail.gmail.com>

http://jstreet.org/press-releases/continuing-attacks-
congressman-ellison-seek-silence-legitimate-positions-israel/



Continuing Attacks on Congressman Ellison Seek To Silence Legitimate
Positions on Israel



December 2, 2016



The recent spate of attacks on Rep. Keith Ellison’s record of support for
Israel and the Jewish community need to come to an end. It is time to
retire the playbook that aims to silence any American official seeking high
office who has dared to criticize certain Israeli government policies.



J Street believes that this recurrent process undermines our ability to
have open, honest and productive conversations about Israel and the Middle
East in our national politics, and that it does deep and lasting damage to
the American Jewish community.



Since Rep. Ellison announced his candidacy for the chair of the DNC, J
Street has been clear that while we do not take positions on internal
Democratic Party deliberations, we believe he is one of a number of worthy
candidates who warrants serious consideration for the position. Rep.
Ellison is and has long been a friend of Israel, a champion of pro-Israel,
pro-peace policies and an admirable elected official whose thoughtful and
considered leadership has shown deep respect for Jewish values and the
Jewish people.



Attempts to paint Rep. Ellison as anti-Israel or anti-Semitic aid a
concerted and transparent smear campaign driven by those whose true
objections may be to the Congressman’s religion, strong support for the
two-state solution and/or concern for Palestinian rights. These opponents
seek to unearth the slightest inartful statements from decades in public
life, take them out of context and use them as a weapon to silence
responsible and important voices like Rep. Ellison’s.



Their charges often have little to do with meaningful debate over whether
particular policies advance Israel’s security and future. Indeed, Rep.
Ellison has been criticized for taking positions, on Iran, Gaza and other
issues that are perfectly consistent with the views of the majority of
American Jews and many in the Israeli security establishment.



It is clear that those who have long claimed a monopoly on our national
political conversation about Israel and the Middle East are frustrated that
there are now respected voices challenging hard-line positions which, we
believe, seriously endanger Israel’s future as a Jewish and democratic
state and rarely show regard for the rights of Palestinians.



J Street has always stood for open debate, and we welcome and respect
disagreements over policy questions. But responsible leaders in the
American Jewish community must take care not to charge that those who are
critical of certain Israeli government policies are “anti-Israel,” or
worse, and thus not “qualified” to hold high national office. It is time to
put away the old playbook.


===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Sun Dec  4 16:17:30 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 16:17:30 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
 Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>,
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
Message-ID: <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>

Carl,

Is this an endorsement of Trump?
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
> 
> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
> 
> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
> 
> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
> 
> They might succeed.  
> 
> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Supporter,
>> 
>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>> 
>> Take Action
>> 
>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>> 
>> Hillel said: 
>> 
>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>> If not now, when?"
>> 
>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>> 
>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>> 
>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>> 
>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>> 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> 
>> Help support our work!
>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> ------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo Groups Links
> 
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/
> 
> <*> Your email settings:
>    Individual Email | Traditional
> 
> <*> To change settings online go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join
>    (Yahoo! ID required)
> 
> <*> To change settings via email:
>    sf-core-digest at yahoogroups.com
>    sf-core-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com
> 
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> 
> <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
>    https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
> 

From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Sun Dec  4 17:15:23 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>

If it walks like a duck....

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
> Belden
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>> 
>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>> 
>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>> 
>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>> 
>> They might succeed.  
>> 
>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Supporter,
>>> 
>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>> 
>>> Take Action
>>> 
>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>> 
>>> Hillel said: 
>>> 
>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>> If not now, when?"
>>> 
>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>> 
>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>> 
>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>>> 
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> 
>>> Help support our work!
>>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> ------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------
>> 
>> Yahoo Groups Links
>> 
>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/
>> 
>> <*> Your email settings:
>>   Individual Email | Traditional
>> 
>> <*> To change settings online go to:
>>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join
>>   (Yahoo! ID required)
>> 
>> <*> To change settings via email:
>>   sf-core-digest at yahoogroups.com
>>   sf-core-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com
>> 
>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>   sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>> 
>> <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
>>   https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Sun Dec  4 17:32:20 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:32:20 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <829AB477-3E1B-4264-92C3-ECDB12DB99C4@newsfromneptune.com>

It’s a statement of preference for Trump over Clinton, like William Blum’s <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147 <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147>> - and for similar reasons.

I voted for Stein but deplore her recently-revealed subservience to the Democrats in attempting to influence the Electoral College to make Clinton president.

It’s a very long shot, but then (as Nate Silver argued) so was Trump’s nomination.

Did you endorse Clinton?

Regards, Carl


> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
> Belden
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>> 
>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>> 
>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>> 
>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>> 
>> They might succeed.  
>> 
>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Supporter,
>>> 
>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>> 
>>> Take Action
>>> 
>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>> 
>>> Hillel said: 
>>> 
>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>> If not now, when?"
>>> 
>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>> 
>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>> 
>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>>> 
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> 
>>> Help support our work!
>>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>>> 
>>> 

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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Sun Dec  4 17:41:26 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:41:26 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>

John Pilger wrote before the election, ""The CIA has demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The pro-war New York Times — taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears — demands that he is not elected. Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.” 

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/ <https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/>

—CGE


> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> If it walks like a duck....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Carl,
>> 
>> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
>> Belden
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>>> 
>>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>>> 
>>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>>> 
>>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>>> 
>>> They might succeed.  
>>> 
>>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>>> 
>>> —CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dear Supporter,
>>>> 
>>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>>> 
>>>> Take Action
>>>> 
>>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>>> 
>>>> Hillel said: 
>>>> 
>>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>> 
>>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>>> 
>>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>>> 
>>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>>>> 
>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>> 
>>>> Help support our work!
>>>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
>>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>> 
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec  4 17:56:25 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:56:25 -0600
Subject: [Peace] =?utf-8?q?JJ_Goldberg=3A_No=2C_the_Keith_Ellison_Tape_Isn?=
	=?utf-8?b?4oCZdCBBbnRpLUlzcmFlbCDigJQgYW5kIFNob3VsZG7igJl0IFRvcnBl?=
	=?utf-8?q?do_His_Democratic_Run?=
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSj6bn8aMPtdu=yOMV5UwUujuMVKb_Ehu2brBTS0QbTXQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://forward.com/opinion/355950/no-the-keith-ellison-
tape-isnt-anti-israel-and-shouldnt-torpedo-his-democra/

No, the Keith Ellison Tape Isn’t Anti-Israel — and Shouldn’t Torpedo His
Democratic Run
J.J. Goldberg
Forward
December 2, 2016

It looks as though opposition is mounting, perhaps approaching a critical
mass, against the bid by Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison to become chair of
the Democratic National Committee. A small flood of messages and articles
is circulating through the Jewish community and precincts of the Republican
right, supposedly documenting his hostility to Israel and support for Louis
Farrakhan, the notoriously anti-Semitic leader of the Nation of Islam.

It’s a little bit reminiscent of the whisper-and-email campaign that ran
through the Jewish community in early 2008, claiming that then-presidential
contender Barack Obama was secretly a non-citizen and a Muslim. The big
difference being that this time, the target, Ellison, really is a Muslim.

It would be unfortunate at this moment if the opposition campaign were to
succeed and Ellison be denied the chairmanship. Not that he’s necessarily
the best candidate for the job; I’m decidedly agnostic on that. But there’s
been a furious effort by Jewish activists in the past week or two to block
him on the grounds that he’s anti-Israel, anti-Semitic or both.
If the campaign were to succeed at this point, it would be easy to make the
case that “the Jews” had blocked the advance of an African American and a
Muslim to a deserved leadership post. That would likely stir resentment and
reinforce those old rumors about Jews controlling American politics by
bullying and strong-arming whomever we don’t like.

The right couldn’t have done a better job to fan the flames of
anti-Semitism among America’s rising minorities if they’d planned it that
way.

Of course, if the image of Ellison that’s been laid out for us in the past
few days were remotely true, any effort to stop him would be justified. But
it isn’t.

If you stand back, it’s been fascinating to watch the anti-Ellison campaign
as it’s snowballed over the past few days. It consists almost entirely of
some things he said years ago, defending Farrakhan from the charge of
anti-Semitism (which is now somehow described in some accounts as
“defending Farrakhan’s anti-Semitism”). Also an association of
indeterminate length and depth with Farrakhan’s organization. Also a
handful of recorded snippets that could be interpreted — if you’re inclined
that way — as hostile to Israel.

To make the case work, though, you have to ignore the considerably larger
body of evidence showing him to be supportive of Israel and its right to
defend itself, and of U.S. support for Israel. To find them, simply go to
YouTube and plug in the search words “Keith,” “Ellison” and “Israel.”

Some of the evidence against him is downright hilarious. One video clip
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7VJejG7FuM> from 2007 was posted to my
Facebook page by an irate reader, as evidence that Ellison blames “Jews”
for the 9/11 attacks. It’s circulating around the web with explanations
that you can hear audience member saying, “Jews benefited from 9/11,” and
Ellison replying, “Well, I mean, you and I both know.”

Except that’s not what’s on the video. For context, Ellison is likening the
9/11 attacks to the Reichstag fire, the 1933 burning of the German
Parliament that was used by the Nazis as an excuse to crack down on
leftists and consolidate their power. In post-9/11 America, Ellison says,
bigots used the attacks to justify a crackdown on “religious minorities.”

At this point, someone off-camera can be heard saying, “But who benefited
from 9/11?” Ellison replies, “Well, I mean, you and I both know.” The
questioner then answers his own question: “Yeah, Bush.” “Who,” not “Jew.”
(Cue the Woody Allen routine <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaPBhxXhprg>.)

The latest bit of supposed evidence for the prosecution is a 36-second audio
clip
<http://www.investigativeproject.org/5708/ipt-exclusive-in-private-fundraiser-ellison>
of
the congressman addressing a 2010 fundraiser, organized on his behalf by a
Muslim-American businessman. The clip has been described as a slur on
American Jews, implying that they control American foreign policy. In some
versions he’s described as saying Jews control America. The Anti-Defamation
League, which had spoken in Ellison’s favor just days earlier, now says
<http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/israel-middle-east/speech-raises-new-doubts-about-Rep-Ellisons-ability.html?_ga=1.154498680.1954985550.1480670132?referrer=http://adl.org/#.WEE72E_QdmA>
the
remarks are “disqualifying” in his quest for the Democratic National
Convention chairmanship, because they “raise the specter of age-old
stereotypes about Jewish control of our government.”

Well, that’s one way of looking at it, though it takes a bit of
imagination, since what he actually says is that Israel’s welfare is
central to America’s Middle East policy, something we Jews have insisted on
for decades. Speaking to a group of fellow Muslims, he’s plainly describing
how American Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if
they learned to organize. He seems to cite the successful mainstreaming of
Israel as an example of how it works — not something to denigrate, but to
emulate. Here’s what he says to his listeners:

“United States policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad
through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million all turns on
a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? Is that logic? Right? When
the Americans who trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved,
everything changes. Can I say that again?”

Can I be sure that his intentions were as benign as I’m suggesting? No. You
could read them either way, depending on what you’re looking for. My
reading seems to me to be the most obvious understanding of his words, but
we can’t be certain, because all we have is a 36-second excerpt from an
evening’s worth of discussions. It would have been helpful to hear some of
the context, but the group that released the clip, Steven Emerson’s
Investigative Project on Terrorism, chose to cut out the rest of it.

Another key piece of evidence for the prosecution involves several columns
Ellison wrote
<http://www.mndaily.com/article/2016/11/ellisons-push-for-dnc-chair-brings-to-light-old-columns>
for
the University of Minnesota daily student paper in 1989 and 1990, when he
was a third-year law student. He wrote them under the name Keith Hakim,
which is supposed to scare us. At other times, his critics remind us, he’s
called himself Keith Ellison-Muhammad and Keith X Ellison. (Did I mention
that he’s Muslim?)

You can read his defense of Farrakhan from the charge of anti-Semitism.
They’re written by a fairly recent black convert to Islam who’s quick to
defend a black Muslim leader from white attacks, without (by his own public
admission
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Ds-8NoJgE1TkhUOVpKbE1lam9hbjJYdm8xb0pEcmZrSnN3/preview>)
really understanding what anti-Semitism is about.

I wrote about the Ellison brouhaha
<http://forward.com/opinion/355514/keith-ellison-vows-to-give-democrats-their-groove-back-will-louis-farrakhan/?attribution=author-article-listing-1-headline>
a
few days ago, after interviewing Ellison himself by phone. I didn’t go into
detail about each individual allegation against him, focusing only on the
claim that he had a long association with Farrakhan and continues to
sympathize with him. (An article in The Weekly Standard in 2006, just
before Ellison’s first election to Congress, was written by a
conservative Minnesota
blogger
<https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/09/the-secret-history-of-keith-ellison.php>
who’s
been energetically trolling Ellison for years. It was titled “Louis
Farrakhan’s First Congressman
<http://www.weeklystandard.com/louis-farrakhans-brfirst-congressman/article/13892>
.”)

As for the other allegations — that he supports Hamas; that he favors
boycott, divestment and sanctions; that he supports terrorism — I didn’t go
into them at length. That’s partly because after looking into them, I found
the evidence to be either frivolous, distorted or simply false. Instead, I
summed up that stuff as follows:

“Ellison’s detractors, most but not all Republican partisans or pro-Likud
activists, cite a series of actions and statements over nearly a decade.
Ellison himself portrays the allegations as exaggerated, sometimes simply
fabricated.”

In the interest of full disclosure, there’s another reason that I didn’t go
through the whole list of allegations in my last column: I never intended
to be Ellison’s defense attorney. I still don’t. I don’t particularly care
who ends up heading the DNC. There are other fine candidates in the mix.

It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is
not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for
the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering
politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state
solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by
side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently
partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to
promote peace and security.

One could, I suppose, target him in an attempt to combat the visible
presence of Muslims at all levels of American society, on the assumption
that what’s good for Muslims must be bad for Israel. The trouble with that
approach is that Muslims are going to grow as a proportion of American
society, as are various other minorities that don’t share European
Christendom’s feelings of shame and guilt toward Jews. As those demographic
groups grow, it doesn’t make sense to turn them into enemies. On the
contrary, the smart thing to do is to recognize leaders among them who are
willing to express friendship and understanding, as Ellison does, and
reciprocate.

That said, here are a few examples of Ellison’s support for Israel, drawn
from a quick search of YouTube:

Speech to Congress, March 2008
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8QIxb4S1sc&t=95s>, explaining why he
voted for a resolution condemning Hamas rocket attacks against Israel,
despite regret that it doesn’t also mention Gaza Palestinian deprivation.

Speech to Congress, January 2009
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8eWDKIC924>: “I believe every country has
a right to defend itself” (but he can’t vote either for or against a
congressional resolution supporting Israel’s Gaza incursion should also
mention Palestinian civilian deaths).

Attempt to address a January 2009 rally
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjagbIZzNcw> for Palestinians under
Israeli bombardment: Ellison is drowned out by hostile Hamas supporters
after he says he “hopes to bring a greater level of understanding between
people” and is “not here to condemn anyone.”

Speech to Congress, May 2010 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiJcWx8EnhI>,
congratulating Mahmoud Abbas and Benjamin Netanyahu on resuming talks: “The
world needs a secure Israel. And it needs an independent and viable
Palestinian state.”

Speech to Congress, January 2012
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYnanfvDSig>, urging funding be restored
to the Palestinian “Sesame Street,” and warning of the danger of Hamas hate
and extremism filling the vacuum in Palestinian children’s TV.

Interview in House office, March 2013
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5vr4DYFZ5E>, explaining why he believes
Israelis and Palestinians have much in common and should learn each other’s
languages: “Hebrew-speaking Israelis are there. They ain’t going nowhere.
Everybody’s got to get used to the fact that everybody’s there and ain’t
leaving.”

Interviewed on “Meet the Press” August 2014
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNk4AJgk_gI>: Ellison explains why he
voted against emergency funding for Israel’s Iron Dome anti-rocket defense
despite having consistently supported Iron Dome in the past: “Because a
cease-fire is what we should prioritize now.”
===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Sun Dec  4 18:45:42 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 12:45:42 -0600
Subject: [Peace]
 =?utf-8?q?JJ_Goldberg=3A_No=2C_the_Keith_Ellison_Tape_Isn?=
 =?utf-8?b?4oCZdCBBbnRpLUlzcmFlbCDigJQgYW5kIFNob3VsZG7igJl0IFRvcnBlZG8g?=
 =?utf-8?q?His_Democratic_Run?=
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNSj6bn8aMPtdu=yOMV5UwUujuMVKb_Ehu2brBTS0QbTXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNSj6bn8aMPtdu=yOMV5UwUujuMVKb_Ehu2brBTS0QbTXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9EA9A13-6065-4440-BEC6-4C2E07102EE3@illinois.edu>

What should “torpedo his Democratic run” (an appropriate image) is Ellison's support for Obama-Clinton war-making.

Democrats who’ve thought of their party as containing the anti-war movement (probably in both senses) for more than a generation should be dismayed to find their party embracing the neocons.

https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147 <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147>

—CGE


> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> http://forward.com/opinion/355950/no-the-keith-ellison-tape-isnt-anti-israel-and-shouldnt-torpedo-his-democra/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forward.com_opinion_355950_no-2Dthe-2Dkeith-2Dellison-2Dtape-2Disnt-2Danti-2Disrael-2Dand-2Dshouldnt-2Dtorpedo-2Dhis-2Ddemocra_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=HDCJ8Ti5tlpceo6kgHcEYH88ZmodbMU0JBNaLSmB96M&s=0WeyCS7QFm7EeV7iSaC9V1ulx6BLYsFhjUBQcIh6giI&e=>
> 
> No, the Keith Ellison Tape Isn’t Anti-Israel — and Shouldn’t Torpedo His Democratic Run
> J.J. Goldberg
> Forward
> December 2, 2016

[…]

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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Sun Dec  4 19:46:12 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 19:46:12 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
 Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <829AB477-3E1B-4264-92C3-ECDB12DB99C4@newsfromneptune.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>,
 <829AB477-3E1B-4264-92C3-ECDB12DB99C4@newsfromneptune.com>
Message-ID: <F6708888-4726-4813-B9E3-44BDC2EB99B8@illinois.edu>

Yes, after Bernie was out.
BF

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:32 AM, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>> wrote:

It’s a statement of preference for Trump over Clinton, like William Blum’s <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__williamblum.org_aer_read_147&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=8OU-OrWF1Gmu1_IqvmeBj0S5vt-hW5Z0c7W2t0eV044&s=i8L6Bt_TmhypXpV-HcoQf0bLjctLm-q4cdjoaOi4xF8&e=>> - and for similar reasons.

I voted for Stein but deplore her recently-revealed subservience to the Democrats in attempting to influence the Electoral College to make Clinton president.

It’s a very long shot, but then (as Nate Silver argued) so was Trump’s nomination.

Did you endorse Clinton?

Regards, Carl


On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Is this an endorsement of Trump?
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.

All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war).

For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.

Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.

They might succeed.

(BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)

—CGE


On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:


Dear Supporter,

Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.

Take Action

Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile.

Hillel said:

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
If not now, when?"

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled.

Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.

Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just,

Robert Naiman
Just Foreign Policy

Help support our work!
If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation.
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__org.salsalabs.com&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=8OU-OrWF1Gmu1_IqvmeBj0S5vt-hW5Z0c7W2t0eV044&s=QZsyf4tjpkq6CFdtFr9PUMz-2_d71fpucT4wy7zJYNs&e=>" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org_donate&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=8OU-OrWF1Gmu1_IqvmeBj0S5vt-hW5Z0c7W2t0eV044&s=1udZ_IPL6dQ89ndiErpnhMvLO7fbugTxL4Oz0_Huelo&e=>



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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  4 19:46:14 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 19:46:14 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
 Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
 <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR15MB034962AE88FC7A627BE47588A3800@SN1PR15MB0349.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

I have to get my two cents worth in here now.

I agree with everything Pilger and Blum have to say.

I do not agree with Carl’s assessment of Jill Stein when he says: "I voted for Stein but deplore her recently-revealed subservience to the Democrats in attempting to influence the Electoral College to make Clinton president.”

While I initially did not support her taking on the recount, I’m not really sure now where I stand on that issue, either way, her intentions were not to "ingratiate herself", or show “subservience" to the Democrat Party or Hillary.

A major concern has been election fraud in relation to “electronic” voting, and the Electoral College, which is an antiquated system that needs to be done away with. It wont be easy. The very fact that the states involved have refused to cooperate and even refused to do a hand count, is evidence that something is very wrong, change is very necessary, and Jill has taken that task in hand.



John Pilger wrote before the election, ""The CIA has demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The pro-war New York Times — taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears — demands that he is not elected. Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.”

https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/

—CGE


On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

If it walks like a duck....

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Is this an endorsement of Trump?
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.

All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war).

For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.

Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.

They might succeed.

(BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)

—CGE


On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:


Dear Supporter,

Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.

Take Action

Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile.

Hillel said:

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
If not now, when?"

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled.

Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.

Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just,

Robert Naiman
Just Foreign Policy

Help support our work!
If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation.
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com<http://org.salsalabs.com/>" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate



------------------------------------
Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com<mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

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From stuartnlevy at gmail.com  Sun Dec  4 20:33:27 2016
From: stuartnlevy at gmail.com (Stuart Levy)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 14:33:27 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
 Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
 <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
Message-ID: <9b2f56b5-dda0-89e4-42e7-d4864374f3f4@gmail.com>

We should note that stock prices of arms manufacturers leaped up after 
the election.    That shows the capitalist reading of what a Trump admin 
plus a unified Republican congress means for the military.

So yes it is important that Trump recognized the value of speaking out 
against military adventures abroad as part of his campaign - he saw that 
it was something that could move people.     Though as we were 
discussing at last week's AWARE meeting, other candidates in past 
elections have sold themselves as opponents of war and turned out to be 
no such thing - "I have a plan" Nixon, GW Bush, "Nobel Peace Prize" 
Obama came to mind.

How Trump and the people around him will act on their power we'll have 
to see.    I believe Blum's argument that Trump is unlikely to start a 
hot war with Russia, and was very worried that Clinton was hurtling 
along a course to do just that.    But will the Trump administration 
push for war with Iran?  It seems all too likely. Will it keep up the 
trillion-dollar US nuclear weapons upgrade (as Clinton would have), and 
the anti-ballistic missile sites in eastern Europe?

This is why I've kept saying that neither major party's Presidential 
offering is any sort of convincing peace candidate.


As for the Jill Stein-supported recounts, it seems a very smart course 
to me from the Green Party's point of view - not because it would be 
liable to change the outcome of the presidential race, but because it 
might well turn up real sloppiness, or inconsistencies of tabulation 
that could suggest (probably insider) tampering, or expose the numbers 
of people who were given provisional ballots because of voter-rolls 
purges or other vote access restrictions. When neither major party is 
standing up for election integrity, the Green Party can say that theirs 
was the party that fought for it. That has to be valuable for their 
reputation in the next election cycles.



On 12/4/16 11:41 AM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace wrote:
> John Pilger wrote before the election, ""The CIA has demanded Trump is 
> not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The 
> pro-war New York Times — taking a breather from its relentless 
> low-rent Putin smears — demands that he is not elected. Something is 
> up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the 
> multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States 
> maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with 
> Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of 
> the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be 
> the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.”
>
> https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/
>
> —CGE
>
>
>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace 
>> <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>
>> If it walks like a duck....
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" 
>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
>>> Belden
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' 
>>>> carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> 
>>>> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green 
>>>> party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the 
>>>> neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>>>>
>>>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both 
>>>> neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which 
>>>> means more war).
>>>>
>>>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - 
>>>> in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and 
>>>> our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American 
>>>> economic elite, the 1%.
>>>>
>>>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time 
>>>> who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the 
>>>> US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent 
>>>> government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by 
>>>> way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the 
>>>> Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>>>>
>>>> They might succeed.
>>>>
>>>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for 
>>>> Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her 
>>>> campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group 
>>>> ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the 
>>>> Electoral College.)
>>>>
>>>> —CGE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy 
>>>>> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org 
>>>>> <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Supporter,
>>>>>
>>>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U 
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take Action
>>>>>
>>>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized 
>>>>> by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and 
>>>>> responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized 
>>>>> communities reconcile.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hillel said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>>>> If I am only for myself, what am I?
>>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>>
>>>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is 
>>>>> the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>>>>
>>>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the 
>>>>> same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same 
>>>>> means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to 
>>>>> be reconciled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to 
>>>>> help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in 
>>>>> Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just,
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Help support our work!
>>>>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation.
>>>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from 
>>>>> "org.salsalabs.com <http://org.salsalabs.com>" claiming to be 
>>>>> http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com 
>>>> <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>>
>>>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/
>>>>
>>>> <*> Your email settings:
>>>>  Individual Email | Traditional
>>>>
>>>> <*> To change settings online go to:
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join
>>>>  (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>
>>>> <*> To change settings via email:
>>>> sf-core-digest at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-digest at yahoogroups.com>
>>>> sf-core-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:sf-core-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com>
>>>>
>>>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>> sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com 
>>>> <mailto:sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com>
>>>>
>>>> <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
>>>> https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Sun Dec  4 21:06:39 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 15:06:39 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <9b2f56b5-dda0-89e4-42e7-d4864374f3f4@gmail.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
 <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9b2f56b5-dda0-89e4-42e7-d4864374f3f4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <173AAF96-BC1C-46BC-A083-B287462665F8@gmail.com>

Besides, Trump is a pathological liar with no moral compass, tending to echo views if the most recent person who talked to him. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We should note that stock prices of arms manufacturers leaped up after the election.    That shows the capitalist reading of what a Trump admin plus a unified Republican congress means for the military.
> 
> So yes it is important that Trump recognized the value of speaking out against military adventures abroad as part of his campaign - he saw that it was something that could move people.     Though as we were discussing at last week's AWARE meeting, other candidates in past elections have sold themselves as opponents of war and turned out to be no such thing - "I have a plan" Nixon, GW Bush, "Nobel Peace Prize" Obama came to mind.
> 
> How Trump and the people around him will act on their power we'll have to see.    I believe Blum's argument that Trump is unlikely to start a hot war with Russia, and was very worried that Clinton was hurtling along a course to do just that.    But will the Trump administration push for war with Iran?  It seems all too likely.   Will it keep up the trillion-dollar US nuclear weapons upgrade (as Clinton would have), and the anti-ballistic missile sites in eastern Europe?   
> 
> This is why I've kept saying that neither major party's Presidential offering is any sort of convincing peace candidate.
>    
> 
> As for the Jill Stein-supported recounts, it seems a very smart course to me from the Green Party's point of view - not because it would be liable to change the outcome of the presidential race, but because it might well turn up real sloppiness, or inconsistencies of tabulation that could suggest (probably insider) tampering, or expose the numbers of people who were given provisional ballots because of voter-rolls purges or other vote access restrictions.   When neither major party is standing up for election integrity, the Green Party can say that theirs was the party that fought for it.   That has to be valuable for their reputation in the next election cycles.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/4/16 11:41 AM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace wrote:
>> John Pilger wrote before the election, ""The CIA has demanded       Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not       elected. The pro-war New York Times — taking a breather from its       relentless low-rent Putin smears — demands that he is not elected.       Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.”        
>> 
>> https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If it walks like a duck....
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>>>>> 
>>>>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> They might succeed.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Supporter,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Take Action
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible                       leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hillel said: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>>>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Help support our work!
>>>>>> If you think our work is important, support us with a $15 donation. 
>>>>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "org.salsalabs.com" claiming to be http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> Your email settings:
>>>>>  Individual Email | Traditional
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> To change settings online go to:
>>>>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sf-core/join
>>>>>  (Yahoo! ID required)
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> To change settings via email:
>>>>>  sf-core-digest at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>  sf-core-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>>>  sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> <*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
>>>>>  https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Sun Dec  4 22:39:00 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 16:39:00 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <9b2f56b5-dda0-89e4-42e7-d4864374f3f4@gmail.com>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <AB356050-FE2B-47CC-BAE4-DA1F507E9C6D@gmail.com>
 <EA9D61DD-7D19-425D-AFB1-4B11D205316D@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9b2f56b5-dda0-89e4-42e7-d4864374f3f4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C9EA63F-10A1-4476-AF3B-8EAE28B44F21@newsfromneptune.com>

The ‘defense’ industries are looking for more spending from a president who says he wants to make the US military so strong that no one will attack it. But that’s not the same (in part it’s more honest) as a president who gets elected by pretending to be against George Bush’s wars and then expands them, attacking eight countries. (Bush only attacked six.) Obama is the first US president - ever - to be at war throughout two presidential terms. I’d prefer an administration that buys weapons - “arming to parley,” as a noted war-criminal said - to one that uses them and transfers them to notable human rights violators, like the KSA, Israel, and Al Qaeda. (See Andrew Cockburn, "A Special Relationship: The United States is teaming up with Al Qaeda, again,” Harper’s, January 2016). Obama produced a lot of dead Syrians (and others). It’s clear that Clinton would continue and intensify Bush/Obama war-making; she’s said as much (and more).

As for the recounts supported by Jill Stein (and not, it’s important to note, by the Green party) - cui bono? Follow the money: the Democratic party, the front group MoveOn, and the Soros interests are not suddenly putting up many times the total budget of the Green party presidential campaign just to increase the marginal fairness of US elections (a consummation devoutly to be wished). For what they are doing, take a look at what Stein campaign manager David Cobb, 2004 Green presidential candidate, did in Ohio after that election. He wasn’t even on the ballot in Ohio, but he filed for a recount in that state - the crucial swing state in the Bush/Kerry election, where Bush won by 2.1%. 

After Cobb’s call for a recount, the Democratic party filed a Congressional objection to the certification of Ohio's Electoral College votes due to alleged irregularities including disqualification of provisional ballots, alleged misallocation of voting machines, and disproportionally long waits in poor and predominantly African-American communities. The Senate voted the objection down 1–74; the House voted the objection down 31–267. It was only the second Congressional objection to an entire State's electoral delegation in U.S. history; the first instance was in 1877, where a presidential election was 'adjusted' by the famous ‘Compromise’ of that year; what can the Democrats be thinking of this year? 

Cobb's minuscule national vote total in 2004 resulted from a ‘safe state’ strategy that aided the Democrats. (Many people left the Greens in those years when it was typical for Green party officials to say, “We just want to be a regular political party, like the Republicans and Democrats.”) See now "The Stein Campaign and the Fight for Green Party Independence" by Brandy Baker, CounterPunch 28 Nov. 2016.)

Stein’s recounts are in aid of the Clinton campaign’s desperate attempt to draw down Trump’s Electoral College vote below 270, forcing the House of Representatives to choose the next president. (Representatives need not vote in accord with their state’s popular vote.) The hysterical media attention to Trumps’ deficient character might give an excuse for the House not to vote for an “unsuitable president” - who happens not to be a neoliberal or a neoconservative. 

Jill Stein’s cave-in to the neolib and neocon Clinton campaign is as bad as Bernie Sanders’ and Elizabeth Warren’s. It’s the year of liberal tergiversation.  —CGE


> On Dec 4, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We should note that stock prices of arms manufacturers leaped up after the election.    That shows the capitalist reading of what a Trump admin plus a unified Republican congress means for the military.
> 
> So yes it is important that Trump recognized the value of speaking out against military adventures abroad as part of his campaign - he saw that it was something that could move people.     Though as we were discussing at last week's AWARE meeting, other candidates in past elections have sold themselves as opponents of war and turned out to be no such thing - "I have a plan" Nixon, GW Bush, "Nobel Peace Prize" Obama came to mind.
> 
> How Trump and the people around him will act on their power we'll have to see.    I believe Blum's argument that Trump is unlikely to start a hot war with Russia, and was very worried that Clinton was hurtling along a course to do just that.    But will the Trump administration push for war with Iran?  It seems all too likely.   Will it keep up the trillion-dollar US nuclear weapons upgrade (as Clinton would have), and the anti-ballistic missile sites in eastern Europe?   
> 
> This is why I've kept saying that neither major party's Presidential offering is any sort of convincing peace candidate.
>    
> As for the Jill Stein-supported recounts, it seems a very smart course to me from the Green Party's point of view - not because it would be liable to change the outcome of the presidential race, but because it might well turn up real sloppiness, or inconsistencies of tabulation that could suggest (probably insider) tampering, or expose the numbers of people who were given provisional ballots because of voter-rolls purges or other vote access restrictions.   When neither major party is standing up for election integrity, the Green Party can say that theirs was the party that fought for it.   That has to be valuable for their reputation in the next election cycles.
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/4/16 11:41 AM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace wrote:
>> John Pilger wrote before the election, ""The CIA has demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The pro-war New York Times — taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears — demands that he is not elected. Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.” 
>> 
>> https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/ <https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/23/john-pilger-why-hillary-clinton-is-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump/>
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If it walks like a duck....
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, "Fields, A Belden via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>>>>> 
>>>>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> They might succeed.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Supporter,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Take Action
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hillel said: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>>>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for all you do to help make the house we live in more just, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>> 

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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sun Dec  4 22:56:00 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 22:56:00 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Breaking News
References: <2068078269.88379.1480890093700.JavaMail.nobody@prd-10-60-174-213.nodes.56m.dmtio.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB034743F5FCDF983F88BCD2F4A3800@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Political activism works!!!


The Army Corps of Engineers says it will not approve an easement to allow the proposed Dakota Access Pipeline<http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/dakota-access-pipeline/index.html> to cross under Lake Oahe in North Dakota, a victory for the Standing Rock Sioux tribe and its supporters.




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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  5 00:55:41 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 00:55:41 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Urbana City Council Meeting Monday night
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB034751A686061006FA56C99CA3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Professor Francis Boyle will be arguing in favor of Urbana remaining a Sanctuary City, just as he did in the 1980’s. At that time, he did so against opposition from KKK members and Nazi Party supporters, as well as a death threat. I certainly hope we won’t have any of that tomorrow evening, but one never knows.

So, all are invited to attend in solidarity, with this effort to revise the current resolution, making it an ordinance as a first step in the process of protecting our undocumented neighbors. 

There is history here as well in relation to US Foreign Policy, Nafta, etc. As long as we continue to kill and destroy nations, we continue to create refugees, both political and economic. 

Refugee’s become undocumented immigrants or workers, teachers, students, neighbors, friends and loved ones. 

From a-fields at illinois.edu  Mon Dec  5 01:56:57 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 01:56:57 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Urbana City Council Meeting Monday night
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB034751A686061006FA56C99CA3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB034751A686061006FA56C99CA3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8EE8AE7F-CFD3-41B5-95F0-8923F8F9A4E9@illinois.edu>

We were a sanctuary city for Salvadorans and Guatemalans in the 1980s.  So we must still be one.
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Professor Francis Boyle will be arguing in favor of Urbana remaining a Sanctuary City, just as he did in the 1980’s. At that time, he did so against opposition from KKK members and Nazi Party supporters, as well as a death threat. I certainly hope we won’t have any of that tomorrow evening, but one never knows.
> 
> So, all are invited to attend in solidarity, with this effort to revise the current resolution, making it an ordinance as a first step in the process of protecting our undocumented neighbors. 
> 
> There is history here as well in relation to US Foreign Policy, Nafta, etc. As long as we continue to kill and destroy nations, we continue to create refugees, both political and economic. 
> 
> Refugee’s become undocumented immigrants or workers, teachers, students, neighbors, friends and loved ones. 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Mon Dec  5 09:09:57 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 03:09:57 -0600
Subject: [Peace] query: de-gendering, de-racing,
	de-religioning our political discourse
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQ9Eq=xJYW9q9bGDkjGW+efDQ9jaDKu9QDn_FojduqzAQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure that other folks here have studied and thought about this question
more than me. I'm very interested in your insights. I awoke from a dream
with the eureka sparklers dancing. What if…?



What if it's the case that the collective we is carrying around a
collection of unconscious assumptions about who has and who will have
political power that are associated with identity markers. What if it's the
case that this doesn't matter very much when we have good information. When
we have good information, we tell our conscious brains to make a decision
on the merits. But what if it's the case that when we don't have good
information but feel forced to make a decision, we throw up our hands and
shrug our shoulders and toss the ball to our unconscious brains. Here, you
figure this out. I'm not sure which choice is better.



And what if our unconscious brains are then like: O joy, O rapture.
Finally, we are free at last from the oppressive jackboot of the
politically correct busybody bureaucratic thought police in our conscious
brains who are constantly caulking up our creative juices and cramping our
style. Finally, at long last, we get to use our unconscious prejudices to
make this judgment.



This train of thought started in my mind several years ago when I read an
interview with a local dentist in the News-Gazette. By the time of the
interview, this guy was very well established in his practice. But, he
said, when he was first starting out, he had a bit of a challenge
establishing himself, because he was black. And at the time, people didn't
believe that a black man could be a dentist. Well, the guy said, I had
taken some marketing classes in college. So, I looked at it as a marketing
problem. The first thing I did was I put a bunch of ads around with my big
smiling black face on them. Like, I'm offering a new service, called "black
dentist." And the second thing I did was find out what other dentists in
town were charging for various dental services. It's not creative writing.
There's a basic set of things that dentists do, fillings, crowns, and
everyone charges a fixed price for these things. And then I offered all
these services for a cheaper price. So now what I'm saying is: I'm offering
a new service called "black dentist." It's not exactly the same as the
"white dentist" service that you're used to. But my new "black dentist"
service is significantly cheaper. Now I knew from my marketing classes that
a certain number of people are early adopters, looking for a deal. Soon I
had all the patients I could handle. As soon as I had all the patients I
could handle, I started raising my prices to match what the white dentists
were charging. Now I don't need to give you a discount. Because now you
know me. Now you don't see me as a "black dentist." Now you just see me as
a "dentist."



What if political actors are like dentists? What if, once you know them,
you judge them on the basis of merit, but before you know them, you are
susceptible to judging them on the basis of prejudice?



I happened to be visiting my parents in Elmhurst in 1984 when there was a
debate between the Democratic presidential candidates on WBBM-TV in Chicago.



Walter Jacobson asked Jesse Jackson,



"Jesse, are you the dark horse candidate?"



Jackson responded:



"Let's not talk about whether this is a *dark* horse or a *light* horse.
It's a *good* horse, and it's a *fast* horse, and it's a *winning* horse."



Jacobson's face turned bright red. It was a world-historical moment.


===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 10:32:58 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 04:32:58 -0600
Subject: [Peace] query: de-gendering, de-racing,
	de-religioning our political discourse
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNQ9Eq=xJYW9q9bGDkjGW+efDQ9jaDKu9QDn_FojduqzAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQ9Eq=xJYW9q9bGDkjGW+efDQ9jaDKu9QDn_FojduqzAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E619EAE-0CD8-44D2-83E1-B6683774DE4B@gmail.com>

Excellent food for thought, Robert. We all--all of us--need to reexamine our underlying assumptions continually. 

But I cannot resist asking(and maybe I am showing my age here), didn't John Lennon write a song about this?

Smiling with victory at Standing Rock, contemplating the battles to come,
Debra

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2016, at 3:09 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm sure that other folks here have studied and thought about this question more than me. I'm very interested in your insights. I awoke from a dream with the eureka sparklers dancing. What if…?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> What if it's the case that the collective we is carrying around a collection of unconscious assumptions about who has and who will have political power that are associated with identity markers. What if it's the case that this doesn't matter very much when we have good information. When we have good information, we tell our conscious brains to make a decision on the merits. But what if it's the case that when we don't have good information but feel forced to make a decision, we throw up our hands and shrug our shoulders and toss the ball to our unconscious brains. Here, you figure this out. I'm not sure which choice is better.
> 
>  
> 
> And what if our unconscious brains are then like: O joy, O rapture. Finally, we are free at last from the oppressive jackboot of the politically correct busybody bureaucratic thought police in our conscious brains who are constantly caulking up our creative juices and cramping our style. Finally, at long last, we get to use our unconscious prejudices to make this judgment.
> 
>  
> 
> This train of thought started in my mind several years ago when I read an interview with a local dentist in the News-Gazette. By the time of the interview, this guy was very well established in his practice. But, he said, when he was first starting out, he had a bit of a challenge establishing himself, because he was black. And at the time, people didn't believe that a black man could be a dentist. Well, the guy said, I had taken some marketing classes in college. So, I looked at it as a marketing problem. The first thing I did was I put a bunch of ads around with my big smiling black face on them. Like, I'm offering a new service, called "black dentist." And the second thing I did was find out what other dentists in town were charging for various dental services. It's not creative writing. There's a basic set of things that dentists do, fillings, crowns, and everyone charges a fixed price for these things. And then I offered all these services for a cheaper price. So now what I'm saying is: I'm offering a new service called "black dentist." It's not exactly the same as the "white dentist" service that you're used to. But my new "black dentist" service is significantly cheaper. Now I knew from my marketing classes that a certain number of people are early adopters, looking for a deal. Soon I had all the patients I could handle. As soon as I had all the patients I could handle, I started raising my prices to match what the white dentists were charging. Now I don't need to give you a discount. Because now you know me. Now you don't see me as a "black dentist." Now you just see me as a "dentist."
> 
>  
> 
> What if political actors are like dentists? What if, once you know them, you judge them on the basis of merit, but before you know them, you are susceptible to judging them on the basis of prejudice?
> 
>  
> 
> I happened to be visiting my parents in Elmhurst in 1984 when there was a debate between the Democratic presidential candidates on WBBM-TV in Chicago.
> 
>  
> 
> Walter Jacobson asked Jesse Jackson,
> 
>  
> 
> "Jesse, are you the dark horse candidate?"
> 
>  
> 
> Jackson responded:
> 
>  
> 
> "Let's not talk about whether this is a dark horse or a light horse. It's a good horse, and it's a fast horse, and it's a winning horse."
> 
>  
> 
> Jacobson's face turned bright red. It was a world-historical moment.
> 
>  
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 10:56:59 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 04:56:59 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Breaking News
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB034743F5FCDF983F88BCD2F4A3800@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2068078269.88379.1480890093700.JavaMail.nobody@prd-10-60-174-213.nodes.56m.dmtio.net>
 <CY1PR15MB034743F5FCDF983F88BCD2F4A3800@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <385D235A-CBE6-4928-822D-81B62399BAF3@gmail.com>

Now the real work begins. The pro-DAPL forces will be scurrying overtime to find an alternate route with fewer eyes on them. We have won a slight reprieve, and we must not squander this time to exercise vigilance and continue to organize. 

Nebraskans are bracing for a return of pressure to allow the pipeline. The pipeline itself represents a threat to the planet, not just its route. 
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Political activism works!!!
>> 
>> The Army Corps of Engineers says it will not approve an easement to allow the proposed Dakota Access Pipeline to cross under Lake Oahe in North Dakota, a victory for the Standing Rock Sioux tribe and its supporters.
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Mon Dec  5 14:54:26 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 08:54:26 -0600
Subject: [Peace] query: de-gendering, de-racing,
 de-religioning our political discourse
In-Reply-To: <2E619EAE-0CD8-44D2-83E1-B6683774DE4B@gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQ9Eq=xJYW9q9bGDkjGW+efDQ9jaDKu9QDn_FojduqzAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2E619EAE-0CD8-44D2-83E1-B6683774DE4B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALMNhNT9wAa4QkcjkwZATPpefgVSPqdQ-5feGCc2m1YuQ-fTsA@mail.gmail.com>

I see your point. But then maybe the song could benefit from two more
verses.



Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:32 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Excellent food for thought, Robert. We all--all of us--need to reexamine
> our underlying assumptions continually.
>
> But I cannot resist asking(and maybe I am showing my age here), didn't
> John Lennon write a song about this?
>
> Smiling with victory at Standing Rock, contemplating the battles to come,
> Debra
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 5, 2016, at 3:09 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> I'm sure that other folks here have studied and thought about this
> question more than me. I'm very interested in your insights. I awoke from a
> dream with the eureka sparklers dancing. What if…?
>
>
>
> What if it's the case that the collective we is carrying around a
> collection of unconscious assumptions about who has and who will have
> political power that are associated with identity markers. What if it's the
> case that this doesn't matter very much when we have good information. When
> we have good information, we tell our conscious brains to make a decision
> on the merits. But what if it's the case that when we don't have good
> information but feel forced to make a decision, we throw up our hands and
> shrug our shoulders and toss the ball to our unconscious brains. Here, you
> figure this out. I'm not sure which choice is better.
>
>
>
> And what if our unconscious brains are then like: O joy, O rapture.
> Finally, we are free at last from the oppressive jackboot of the
> politically correct busybody bureaucratic thought police in our conscious
> brains who are constantly caulking up our creative juices and cramping our
> style. Finally, at long last, we get to use our unconscious prejudices to
> make this judgment.
>
>
>
> This train of thought started in my mind several years ago when I read an
> interview with a local dentist in the News-Gazette. By the time of the
> interview, this guy was very well established in his practice. But, he
> said, when he was first starting out, he had a bit of a challenge
> establishing himself, because he was black. And at the time, people didn't
> believe that a black man could be a dentist. Well, the guy said, I had
> taken some marketing classes in college. So, I looked at it as a marketing
> problem. The first thing I did was I put a bunch of ads around with my big
> smiling black face on them. Like, I'm offering a new service, called "black
> dentist." And the second thing I did was find out what other dentists in
> town were charging for various dental services. It's not creative writing.
> There's a basic set of things that dentists do, fillings, crowns, and
> everyone charges a fixed price for these things. And then I offered all
> these services for a cheaper price. So now what I'm saying is: I'm offering
> a new service called "black dentist." It's not exactly the same as the
> "white dentist" service that you're used to. But my new "black dentist"
> service is significantly cheaper. Now I knew from my marketing classes that
> a certain number of people are early adopters, looking for a deal. Soon I
> had all the patients I could handle. As soon as I had all the patients I
> could handle, I started raising my prices to match what the white dentists
> were charging. Now I don't need to give you a discount. Because now you
> know me. Now you don't see me as a "black dentist." Now you just see me as
> a "dentist."
>
>
>
> What if political actors are like dentists? What if, once you know them,
> you judge them on the basis of merit, but before you know them, you are
> susceptible to judging them on the basis of prejudice?
>
>
>
> I happened to be visiting my parents in Elmhurst in 1984 when there was a
> debate between the Democratic presidential candidates on WBBM-TV in Chicago.
>
>
>
> Walter Jacobson asked Jesse Jackson,
>
>
>
> "Jesse, are you the dark horse candidate?"
>
>
>
> Jackson responded:
>
>
>
> "Let's not talk about whether this is a *dark* horse or a *light* horse.
> It's a *good* horse, and it's a *fast* horse, and it's a *winning* horse."
>
>
>
> Jacobson's face turned bright red. It was a world-historical moment.
>
>
> ===
>
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  5 16:29:26 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 16:29:26 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Sanctuary Campus Petition
References: <CADL4Vu5yvPT+CCLkk19WEzvf94CKexvWPZmm9YeCZW6sP4bQpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03474987A9CCA867F71AEC81A3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

 if you haven’t signed the petition yet, supporting sanctuary on campus, please do now as a vote is taking place this afternoon.


Dear PNers,

If you haven't gotten to sign the sanctuary campus petition yet, here's another chance. The link is here<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_forms_d_1we4HxeYxRIOBg6bWSHNtO85HI5Nk-2DM6bHdygxddCLzg_viewform-3Fedit-5Frequested-3Dtrue&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=1XH2Dulq6QXrlk-FONHYSjpnnMeO1O_ny1UgbP7ZSHs&e=>.

If you have not signed, please consider doing so. If you have signed, please consider reaching out to someone who has not and asking them to do so. If we act as multipliers we can build wonderful momentum and a strong show of solidarity as the movement builds momentum!

Below are a few points worth considering.


1.       The sanctuary movement is becoming part of a national movement among educators.  University of Pennsylvania, recently announced itself as a Sanctuary Campus: http://www.phillyvoice.com/campus-wide-email-penn-assures-its-sanctuary-its-undocumented-student/?utm_campaign=pv-site&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=news<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.phillyvoice.com_campus-2Dwide-2Demail-2Dpenn-2Dassures-2Dits-2Dsanctuary-2Dits-2Dundocumented-2Dstudent_-3Futm-5Fcampaign-3Dpv-2Dsite-26utm-5Fmedium-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dnews&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=IxVp7bvapbMm1KlusJeTyepSoe8NeM0sm7VvHW-Dl1M&e=>

FROM NPR: “This week, hundreds of university presidents and chancellors from across the country wrote an open letter <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pomona.edu_news_2016_11_21-2Dcollege-2Duniversity-2Dpresidents-2Dcall-2Dus-2Duphold-2Dand-2Dcontinue-2Ddaca&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=6kc_PeUN1FfQRaX-YL_cduTb3GcxszRNKKWiMJ0wvnY&e=> calling for preservation of the protections for the roughly 750,000 young people approved for DACA nationwide. Some administrators from Illinois are signed on to that letter, including the chancellors of the University of Illinois’ Chicago and Urbana campuses.” http://nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-deferred-decision<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nprillinois.org_post_illinois-2Dissues-2Ddeferred-2Ddecision&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=7Zgv6TW0_9I3uicr3hIsKsKm2KE84HbpV7l8Zwds6FY&e=>


 2.       Sanctuary is not a political impossibility in Illinois. Community groups have been active in thinking about how to actively protect undocumented students, including the Illinois is Safe Platform  (http://www.icirr.org/news-events/news/details/1063/take-action-call-governor-rauner-and-tell-him-to-support-illinois-is-safe-platfo<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.icirr.org_news-2Devents_news_details_1063_take-2Daction-2Dcall-2Dgovernor-2Drauner-2Dand-2Dtell-2Dhim-2Dto-2Dsupport-2Dillinois-2Dis-2Dsafe-2Dplatfo&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=S7g1hzaUQ825bQsLfOLpKrXcq_QdAaAd8dS6OUOvgY4&e=>)
Our own Dick Durbin has been a leader on these issues at the national level: http://www.durbin.senate.gov/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.durbin.senate.gov_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=OUoCO5lzCTKVJTzj6ktRx3rngwx5LnfoeFHg3syoxAs&e=>


3.       Students are asking us to show strong public support right now!Many of us have heard from students how important it is for us to publically show that “we have their back.” A declaration of support is an important way to send a strong message to students that we are here to make this as productive, engaged and community-based learning environment as we can.


4.       Sanctuary at Illinois is part of a broader coalitional effort on campus.Many people on campus including students, faculty and administrators are putting their heads together to come up with workable and ethical solutions to the concerns many of our students now face.  Wide public support through this petition brings moral authority and energy to the cause and is a key piece of a broader coalitional movement to create institutional responses that necessarily move at a slower pace.

Best,
Efad



--
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com<http://briandolinar.com/>

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From mickalideh at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 17:27:23 2016
From: mickalideh at gmail.com (Harry Mickalide)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 11:27:23 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Sanctuary Campus Petition
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB03474987A9CCA867F71AEC81A3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CADL4Vu5yvPT+CCLkk19WEzvf94CKexvWPZmm9YeCZW6sP4bQpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY1PR15MB03474987A9CCA867F71AEC81A3830@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANNeTNHVGCGFqMFypxD+f5Y4C+8LDUzviDxEJ9vNBaNtsPvYDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Signed it!

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>  if you haven’t signed the petition yet, supporting sanctuary on campus,
> please do now as a vote is taking place this afternoon.
>
>
> Dear PNers,
>
>
> If you haven't gotten to sign the sanctuary campus petition yet, here's
> another chance. The link is here
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_forms_d_1we4HxeYxRIOBg6bWSHNtO85HI5Nk-2DM6bHdygxddCLzg_viewform-3Fedit-5Frequested-3Dtrue&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=1XH2Dulq6QXrlk-FONHYSjpnnMeO1O_ny1UgbP7ZSHs&e=>
> .
>
>
> *If you have not signed, please consider doing so.* If you have signed*,
> please consider reaching out to someone who has not and asking them to do
> so*. If we act as *multipliers *we can build wonderful momentum and a
> strong show of solidarity as the movement builds momentum!
>
>
> Below are a few points worth considering.
>
>
> 1.       *The sanctuary movement is becoming part of a national movement
> among educators*.  University of Pennsylvania, recently announced itself
> as a Sanctuary Campus: http://www.phillyvoice.com/campus-wide-email-penn-
> assures-its-sanctuary-its-undocumented-student/?utm_
> campaign=pv-site&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=news
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.phillyvoice.com_campus-2Dwide-2Demail-2Dpenn-2Dassures-2Dits-2Dsanctuary-2Dits-2Dundocumented-2Dstudent_-3Futm-5Fcampaign-3Dpv-2Dsite-26utm-5Fmedium-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dnews&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=IxVp7bvapbMm1KlusJeTyepSoe8NeM0sm7VvHW-Dl1M&e=>
>
> *FROM NPR: “This week, hundreds of university presidents and chancellors
> from across the country wrote **an open letter *
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.pomona.edu_news_2016_11_21-2Dcollege-2Duniversity-2Dpresidents-2Dcall-2Dus-2Duphold-2Dand-2Dcontinue-2Ddaca&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=6kc_PeUN1FfQRaX-YL_cduTb3GcxszRNKKWiMJ0wvnY&e=>*calling
> for preservation of the protections for the roughly 750,000 young people
> approved for DACA nationwide. Some administrators from Illinois are signed
> on to that letter, including the chancellors of the University of Illinois’
> Chicago and Urbana campuses**.” *
> *http://nprillinois.org/post/illinois-issues-deferred-decision*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nprillinois.org_post_illinois-2Dissues-2Ddeferred-2Ddecision&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=7Zgv6TW0_9I3uicr3hIsKsKm2KE84HbpV7l8Zwds6FY&e=>
>
>
>  2.       *Sanctuary is not a political impossibility in Illinois*.
> Community groups have been active in thinking about how to actively protect
> undocumented students, including the Illinois is Safe Platform  (
> http://www.icirr.org/news-events/news/details/106
> 3/take-action-call-governor-rauner-and-tell-him-to-
> support-illinois-is-safe-platfo
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.icirr.org_news-2Devents_news_details_1063_take-2Daction-2Dcall-2Dgovernor-2Drauner-2Dand-2Dtell-2Dhim-2Dto-2Dsupport-2Dillinois-2Dis-2Dsafe-2Dplatfo&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=S7g1hzaUQ825bQsLfOLpKrXcq_QdAaAd8dS6OUOvgY4&e=>
> )
>
> *Our own Dick Durbin has been a leader o*n these issues at the national
> level: http://www.durbin.senate.gov/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.durbin.senate.gov_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=zLw6Q2UxykuR3p1TywaUZnPuxgCt3H4giq2McosfrwA&m=tRTXEDT_j-XzAZ0SKJDwOv7qEqsWx2T3s1NSLwGS0us&s=OUoCO5lzCTKVJTzj6ktRx3rngwx5LnfoeFHg3syoxAs&e=>
>
>
> 3.       *Students are asking us to show strong public support right now!*Many
> of us have heard from students how important it is for us to publically
> show that “we have their back.” A declaration of support is an important
> way to send a strong message to students that we are here to make this as
> productive, engaged and community-based learning environment as we can.
>
>
> 4.       *Sanctuary at Illinois is part of a broader coalitional effort
> on campus.*Many people on campus including students, faculty and
> administrators are putting their heads together to come up with workable
> and ethical solutions to the concerns many of our students now face.  *Wide
> public support through this petition brings moral authority and energy to
> the cause and is a key piece of a broader coalitional movement to create
> institutional responses that necessarily move at a slower pace.*
>
> Best,
> Efad
>
>
>
> --
> Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
> briandolinar.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Mon Dec  5 20:04:54 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 20:04:54 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Urbana City Council Meeting Monday night
In-Reply-To: <158cf7b5922-31b0-7d6b@webprd-a108.mail.aol.com>
References: <8EE8AE7F-CFD3-41B5-95F0-8923F8F9A4E9@illinois.edu>,
 <158cf7b5922-31b0-7d6b@webprd-a108.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1A9765@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>

I must correct an error after talking with Jim Holliman.  His recollection, which seems very clear, is that while the Urbana City Council did unanimously pass the city of sanctuary resolution back in the 1980s re: Central American refugees, Mayor Markland refused to sign it.  So, legally the city was not a sanctuary city like Berkeley.
Sorry for any confusion this might have caused.
Belden


________________________________
From: Mildred O'brien [moboct1 at aim.com]
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 8:55 AM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] Urbana City Council Meeting Monday night

Still a "Sanctuary City"--but inclusive of other than Central American refugees?

When is discussion scheduled--before or after business meeting?

Midge


-----Original Message-----
From: Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>
To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Sun, Dec 4, 2016 7:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Peace] Urbana City Council Meeting Monday night

We were a sanctuary city for Salvadorans and Guatemalans in the 1980s. So we must still be one. Belden Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 4, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote: > > Professor Francis Boyle will be arguing in favor of Urbana remaining a Sanctuary City, just as he did in the 1980’s. At that time, he did so against opposition from KKK members and Nazi Party supporters, as well as a death threat. I certainly hope we won’t have any of that tomorrow evening, but one never knows. > > So, all are invited to attend in solidarity, with this effort to revise the current resolution, making it an ordinance as a first step in the process of protecting our undocumented neighbors. > > There is history here as well in relation to US Foreign Policy, Nafta, etc. As long as we continue to kill and destroy nations, we continue to create refugees, both political and economic. > > Refugee’s become undocumented immigrants or workers, teachers, students, neighbors, friends and loved ones. > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=0kXbxoghFIT4bB6Vutd8QPmVz7_CEeHI7y0S4AsXhpk&s=5dAi_7m0GnIvQ6zASAGMIAS2-CUZbQ-xqNM4ysDRo8k&e=> _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=0kXbxoghFIT4bB6Vutd8QPmVz7_CEeHI7y0S4AsXhpk&s=5dAi_7m0GnIvQ6zASAGMIAS2-CUZbQ-xqNM4ysDRo8k&e=>
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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Mon Dec  5 20:51:02 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:51:02 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [sf-core] Re: Sinai Temple: Help Reconcile C-U's
	Traumatized Communities
In-Reply-To: <F6708888-4726-4813-B9E3-44BDC2EB99B8@illinois.edu>
References: <3753890113.1942471849@org.orgDB.reply.salsalabs.com>
 <3B26B27D-769E-44D8-927C-938DED64C2FE@newsfromneptune.com>
 <9E78FD6C-D1B0-4491-B936-CFD8F4C2F48E@illinois.edu>
 <829AB477-3E1B-4264-92C3-ECDB12DB99C4@newsfromneptune.com>
 <F6708888-4726-4813-B9E3-44BDC2EB99B8@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <4036B5E8-A4E1-4C38-8B36-D7A6FAB6CAE8@newsfromneptune.com>

Bill Blum explains why that may have been a mistake: <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147 <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147>>.

—CGE

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> Yes, after Bernie was out.
> BF
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 4, 2016, at 11:32 AM, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>> wrote:
> 
>> It’s a statement of preference for Trump over Clinton, like William Blum’s <https://williamblum.org/aer/read/147 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__williamblum.org_aer_read_147&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=8OU-OrWF1Gmu1_IqvmeBj0S5vt-hW5Z0c7W2t0eV044&s=i8L6Bt_TmhypXpV-HcoQf0bLjctLm-q4cdjoaOi4xF8&e=>> - and for similar reasons.
>> 
>> I voted for Stein but deplore her recently-revealed subservience to the Democrats in attempting to influence the Electoral College to make Clinton president.
>> 
>> It’s a very long shot, but then (as Nate Silver argued) so was Trump’s nomination.
>> 
>> Did you endorse Clinton?
>> 
>> Regards, Carl
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2016, at 10:17 AM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carl,
>>> 
>>> Is this an endorsement of Trump?
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:58 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> MoveOn and some members of the Stein campaign (but not the Green party) are attempting to use recounts and appeals to make the neoliberal and neoconservative candidate, Hillary Clinton, president.
>>>> 
>>>> All major party presidential candidates for 40 years have been both neoliberal (which means more inequality) and neoconservative (which means more war). 
>>>> 
>>>> For proof, look what the US government has done since the 1970s - in all administrations -  in regard to jobs and war: our jobs - and our military - are sent overseas, for the profits of the American economic elite, the 1%.
>>>> 
>>>> Trump is the first major party presidential candidate in that time who isn’t either a neoliberal or a neoconservative. Therefore the US political class - the 1% and their minions in the "permanent government/deep state" - are trying to deny him the presidency, by way of the Electoral College - because he might not continue the Bush-Obama-Clinton policies of war and austerity.
>>>> 
>>>> They might succeed.  
>>>> 
>>>> (BTW, it's NOT the Greens: the Green party said no to flacking for Clinton, as did Green VP nominee Ajamu Baraka; Jill Stein, her campaign manager David Cobb, and Democratic party front group ‘MoveOn' are the ones attempting to deny Trump a majority in the Electoral College.)
>>>> 
>>>> —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Just Foreign Policy <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Supporter,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Urge Sinai Temple's Alan Cook to lead to help reconcile C-U communities.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Take Action
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many communities in Champaign-Urbana were unexpectedly traumatized by the election of Donald Trump. Now, we need enlightened and responsible leadership in all corners to help our traumatized communities reconcile. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hillel said: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
>>>>> If I am only for myself, what am I? 
>>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
>>>>> 
>>>>> The children of Abraham - fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer - need to be reconciled. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Urge Alan Cook to use his leadership position at Sinai Temple to help chase away darkness and reconcile the children of Abraham in Champaign-Urbana by signing our petition at MoveOn.
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Mon Dec  5 20:59:18 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:59:18 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Glenn Greenwald: The Smear Campaign Against Keith Ellison
 Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQHUBPNtHY=AL5Y47RpSMnwKQ3tJchd_bhZEh_fMeX85g@mail.gmail.com>

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/

The Smear Campaign Against Keith Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much
About Washington
Glenn Greenwald
The Intercept
December 4 2016, 7:48 a.m.

EVER SINCE HE announced his candidacy to lead the Democratic National
Committee, Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim elected to the U.S.
Congress, has been the target of a defamation campaign that is deceitful,
repugnant, and yet quite predictable. At first expressed in whispers, but
now being yelled from the rooftops by some of the party’s most influential
figures, Ellison is being smeared as both an anti-Semite and enemy of
Israel — the same smears virtually any critic of the Israeli government
reflexively encounters, rendered far worse if the critic is a prominent
American Muslim.

Three days ago, the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League pronounced
<http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/israel-middle-east/speech-raises-new-doubts-about-Rep-Ellisons-ability.html?referrer=https://www.google.com.br/#.WEP94aIrLfY>
Ellison’s
2010 comments about Israel “deeply disturbing and disqualifying.” Other
Israel advocates have now joined in
<http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.756786>. What are Ellison’s
terrible sins? He said in a 2010 speech
<http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/1.756786> that while he “wanted
the U.S. to be friends with Israel,” the U.S. “can’t allow another country
to treat us like we’re their ATM.”

As the full speech makes clear
<http://www.investigativeproject.org/5713/full-audio-of-keith-ellison-remarks-at-esam#>,
he was referring to the indisputable fact that while Israel continues to
take billions of dollars every year from the U.S. — far more than any other
country receives in aid
<https://theintercept.com/2016/07/31/as-israel-prospers-obama-set-to-give-billions-more-in-aid-while-netanyahu-demands-more/>
—
it continually disregards and violates U.S. requests to stop ongoing
expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, often in ways seemingly designed
to impose the greatest humiliation on its benefactor
<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/world/middleeast/10biden.html>:

Stop, you know why are we sending a mill — $2.8 billion dollars a year over
there when they won’t even honor our request to stop building in East
Jerusalem? Where is the future Palestinian state going to be if it’s
colonized before it even gets up off the ground? …

… Now you got Clinton, Biden, and the president who’s told them — stop. Now
this has happened before. They beat back a president before. Bush 41 said —
stop, and they said — we don’t want to stop, and by the way we want our
money and we want it now. [Ellison laughs.] Right? You know, I mean we
can’t allow, we’re Americans, right? We can’t allow another country to
treat us like we’re their ATM. Right? And so we ought to stand up as
Americans.

Equally sinful in the eyes of the ADL was this statement on U.S. foreign
policy:

The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is
good or bad through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million
all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? [A male says
“no.”] Is that logic? Right? When the people who, when the Americans who
trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved, everything
changes.

As J.J. Goldberg of The Forward noted
<http://forward.com/opinion/355950/no-the-keith-ellison-tape-isnt-anti-israel-and-shouldnt-torpedo-his-democra/>,
Ellison wasn’t lamenting the insidious influence of U.S. Jews — as the ADL
shamefully claimed — but rather was “plainly describing how American
Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if they learned to
organize.”

And agree or disagree with those positions, it is an indisputable fact that
Israel receives far more in U.S. aid than any other country yet continually
does exactly that which numerous U.S. presidents have insisted it not do,
often to the detriment of U.S. interests. And many prominent foreign policy
experts — including David Petraeus
<http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-s-general-israel-palestinian-conflict-foments-anti-u-s-sentiment-1.264910>
—
have warned that excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the
Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in
the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism. The idea that a
member of Congress is not permitted to debate these policies without being
branded an anti-Semite is sheer insanity: malicious insanity at that.

But that insanity is par for the course in Washington, where anyone who
even questions U.S. policy toward Israel is smeared in this way — from James
Baker
<http://hotair.com/archives/2015/03/24/does-jim-bakers-position-on-israel-mean-he-should-be-drummed-out-of-the-gop/>
 to Howard Dean <http://www.salon.com/2003/09/23/dean_israel/> to Bernie
Sanders
<http://forward.com/opinion/333337/why-bludgeoning-bernie-sanders-on-israel-wont-help-hillary-clinton/>
 and even Donald Trump
<http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.720213>. So
pernicious is this framework that the U.S. Senate just passed
<https://theintercept.com/2016/12/02/senate-responds-to-post-trump-anti-semitism-by-targeting-students-who-criticize-israel/>
 legislation expressly equating
<http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/01/proposed-anti-semitism-awareness-act-is>
what
it regards as unfair criticism of the Israeli government with
“anti-Semitism.” And when one is an American Muslim, ugly stereotypes and
pervasive Islamophobia are added to this toxic brew to make the smears
worse by many magnitudes.

THIS SMEAR CAMPAIGN against Ellison received a major boost Friday night
<http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/03/politics/haim-saban-keith-ellison-anti-semite/>
when
the single largest funder of both the Democratic Party and the Hillary
Clinton campaign, the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban, said at the
Brookings Institution, a part of which he funds: “If you go back to his
positions, his papers, his speeches, the way he has voted, he is clearly an
anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual.” Saban added: “Keith Ellison would
be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the
Democratic Party.”

That Saban plays such a vital role in Democratic Party politics says a
great deal. To the New York Times, this is how he described himself
<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/05/business/yourmoney/schlepping-to-moguldom.html>:
“I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” In late 2015, Ali Gharib wrote
in The Forward
<http://forward.com/opinion/national/325490/does-hillary-clinton-have-a-haim-saban-problem/>:
“Saban’s top priority isn’t a liberal vision of American life. It’s
Israel.” When Hillary Clinton in 2015 condemned the boycott movement
<https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/07/hillary-clinton-anti-israel-boycott-bds-movement>aimed
at ending Israeli settlements, she did it in the form of a letter addressed
personally to Saban
<https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2158218-hillary-clintons-letter-to-haim-saban-against-bds.html>
.

The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban
is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within
the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic
campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with
Ellison.

To get a sense for just how prohibited the most benign and basic debates
are when it comes to Israel, consider the quotes from Ellison’s college
days dug up by CNN as supposedly incriminating
<http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/01/politics/kfile-keith-ellison-nation-of-islam/index.html>.
In 1990, while a law student at the University of Minnesota, Ellison
blasted the university president for condemning a speaking event featuring
the anti-Zionist civil rights icon Kwame Ture (also known as Stokely
Carmichael); Ellison’s argument was that all ideas, including Zionism,
should be regarded as debatable in a college environment:

The University’s position appears to be this: Political Zionism is
off-limits no matter what dubious circumstances Israel was founded under;
no matter what the Zionists do to the Palestinians; and no matter what
wicked regimes Israel allies itself with — like South Africa. This position
is untenable.

In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued
that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates
over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be
debated is something other than Israel.

Leave aside the bizarre attempt to use someone’s college-aged political
activism against them three decades later. As my colleague Zaid Jilani very
ably documented several days ago
<https://theintercept.com/2016/12/01/potential-dnc-leader-keith-ellisons-controversial-law-school-columns-show-anger-not-bigotry/>,
even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements — including his
long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam — were grounded in
righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of
Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged
whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.”
Writing about the smear campaign circulating on the internet against
Ellison, The Forward’s Goldberg said he found “the evidence to be either
frivolous, distorted or simply false.”

As CNN itself acknowledged when digging up these old Ellison quotes: “None
of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic
comments himself.” How is that, by itself, not the end of the controversy?



THE REASON WHY it isn’t is a glaring irony. With the advent of Donald Trump
and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country, Democrats this
year incorporated anti-Islamophobia rhetoric into their repertoire
<http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/01/26/iowa-democratic-town-hall-clinton-islamophobia-16.cnn>.
Yet what is being done to Ellison by the ADL, Saban, and others is
Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.

Faiz Shakir is a senior adviser to Harry Reid who previously worked for
Nancy Pelosi and the ThinkProgress blog at the Center for American
Progress. He explains, from personal experience, that the vile treatment to
which Ellison is now being subjected is common for American Muslims in
political life:

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in
public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
12:31 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117375100125184>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805117375100125184>
   -
    192192 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805117375100125184>
   -
    357357 likes
   <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805117375100125184>

3 Dec <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117375100125184>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in
public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I
joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nan
cy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
<https://t.co/pf5ChX1nyE>
12:32 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117521808556032>
Nancy Pelosi Hires Former Terrorist Fundraiser

What Faiz Shakir's powerful new post says about Democratic Party
anti-Semitism.
frontpagemag.com
<https://t.co/pf5ChX1nyE>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805117521808556032>
   -
    5151 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805117521808556032>
   -
    6363 likes <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805117521808556032>

3 Dec <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117521808556032>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I
joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nan
cy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
<https://t.co/pf5ChX1nyE>

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

At @thinkprogress <https://twitter.com/thinkprogress>, we were absurdly
labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That
cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117654348480512>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805117654348480512>
   -
    1717 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805117654348480512>
   -
    3333 likes <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805117654348480512>

3 Dec <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117654348480512>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

At @thinkprogress <https://twitter.com/thinkprogress>, we were absurdly
labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That
cheapens "anti-semitic" charge

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill
in the Bush White House.
12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117845751427072>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805117845751427072>
   -
    1313 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805117845751427072>
   -
    1616 likes <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805117845751427072>

3 Dec <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117845751427072>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill
in the Bush White House.

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

See how even @GroverNorquist <https://twitter.com/GroverNorquist> has been
unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117971567939586>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805117971567939586>
   -
    1212 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805117971567939586>
   -
    1717 likes <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805117971567939586>

3 Dec <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805117971567939586>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

See how even @GroverNorquist <https://twitter.com/GroverNorquist> has been
unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.

 Follow <https://twitter.com/fshakir>
Faiz @fshakir <https://twitter.com/fshakir>

Now it's Ellison's turn. At some point, this has to stop. So glad @
SenSchumer <https://twitter.com/SenSchumer>, @rweingarten
<https://twitter.com/rweingarten>, others are not backing down to pressure.
12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
<https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/805118138337660929>

   -
   <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=805118138337660929>
   -
    2727 Retweets
   <https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=805118138337660929>
   -
    5151 likes <https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=805118138337660929>

In that last tweet, Shakir is referring to the fact that, to their credit,
other Democratic voices — such as American Federation of Teachers President
Randi Weingarten
<http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/jewish-groups-and-unions-grow-uneasy-with-keith-ellison.html>
, J Street <http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.756694>, and, most
important, Chuck Schumer
<https://twitter.com/gdebenedetti/status/804460430785650689?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw>
—
continue to defend Ellison. J Street’s statement
<http://jstreet.org/press-releases/continuing-attacks-congressman-ellison-seek-silence-legitimate-positions-israel/>
made
the critical point: “It is time to retire the playbook that aims to silence
any American official seeking high office who has dared to criticize
certain Israeli government policies.”

But even these commendable defenses of Ellison illustrate how constricted
the permissible range of views on Israel is within the Democratic Party. J
Street vouched for Ellison by saying that he “is and has long been a friend
of Israel” and is “a champion of pro-Israel, pro-peace policies.” Schumer
went further, saying that while he disagrees with Ellison on numerous
issues, “I saw him orchestrate one of the most pro-Israel platforms in
decades.” Notably, demonstrating steadfast support for the polices of the
Israeli government is literally a job requirement to lead the Democratic
National Committee — and for every other significant position in Washington.

But Ellison has actually fulfilled that requirement. Even his opponents
admit
<http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.756850?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter>:
“Ellison unambiguously self-identifies as pro-Israel, supports a two-state
solution without reservation, has repeatedly said that Israel has a right
to defend itself and expressed the importance of protecting and maintaining
Israel’s security, and there is no evidence that he has ever supported or
advocated for BDS.” It’s true that, as Jay Michaelson wrote in an excellent
Daily Beast column
<http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/02/squabble-over-keith-ellison-reveals-dilemma-for-democrats-on-israel.html>,
Ellison “has been critical of Israeli settlements, of right-wing Israeli
governments, and of America’s unconditional support for Israel.” But even
his Israel advocacy is rather banal, as Goldberg wrote:

It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is
not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for
the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering
politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state
solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by
side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently
partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to
promote peace and security.

In other words, Ellison is a mainstream liberal Democrat, albeit situated
on the left wing of the party as it is currently constituted in Congress
(which is not very far to the left given that Nancy Pelosi resides in a
nearby ideological precinct).

What makes him such an easy and vulnerable target for smear campaigns such
as the one Saban and the ADL are pursuing is that he is Muslim — a black
Muslim to boot. Just look at the obvious codes in this paragraph
from Michael J. Koplow, the policy director of the Israel Policy Forum, writing
in Haaretz under the headline
<http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.756850?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter>
“Keith
Ellison Has a Real Israel Problem”:

Ellison is not a figure whom anyone would normally expect to be a supporter
of Israel. He is an African-American Muslim who did not grow up in a
particularly Jewish area of the country, came of age after 1967, when
Israel’s image as a David began shifting to that of a Goliath, did not have
any prominent Jewish mentors, and has a background in radical politics. As
a student, he was harshly critical of Zionism and its legitimacy.

While Koplow cites these facts not to endorse the stereotypes but to affirm
Ellison’s bona fides as someone one would not expect to be an Israel
supporter, those are the demographic attributes giving the fuel to this
revolting campaign. As Michaelson, who previously worked with the ADL,
acknowledged: “There’s plenty of Islamophobia within my Jewish community as
well,” and “the ADL is a perfect example,” citing the group’s shameful
opposition to the construction of a mosque
<http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/08/02/the-anti-defamation-leagues-ground-zero-mosque-hypocrisy.html>
in
lower Manhattan.

If you’re a Democrat, it’s easy to embrace the language of
anti-Islamophobia when it comes to condemning Donald Trump and other
Republicans. It’s more difficult, but more important, to do so when that
poison is coming from within the Democratic Party itself.

One of the few silver linings of the ugly Trump rhetoric on Muslims can and
should be (and has been
<http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.753161>) a unified
rejection of this sort of toxicity, regardless of where it comes from.
Democrats who are sincere about wanting to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry can
do so by defending Keith Ellison from these incredibly ugly, baseless, and
defamatory attacks.
===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1
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From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 22:38:43 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2016 16:38:43 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: [Announce] Mayor proposes half a million to hire 5
	more police	officers
Message-ID: <daxtbqvfq9qk88ip9xnuqyi2.1480977523089@email.android.com>

This is related to the various threads by Karen Aram and Francis Boyle.I just thought Peace would like to see the announcements posted to anti- racism groups....
Re: sanctuary communityUpdating the current status is important. Updating would include addressing some concerns such as: 

-------- Original message --------From: "chynowet ." Subject: [Announce] Mayor proposes half a million to hire 5 more police	officers 
Dear friends - 
Come out tonight 7pm Urbana City Council chambers to show support for making Urbana a sanctuary city and to oppose the Mayor's proposal to spend another half million per year on more police in Urbana. 
Here is model legislation to prohibit or limiting law enforcement engagement in:cooperation with immigration enforcementdiscriminatory profilingintelligence-sharing with federal authoritiesundercover infiltration of activist groups and religious institutionscooperation with military personnelover-policing or restricting protestsprying into social media accountsInstead of more police officers and police spying, we need to address the root of crime - poverty. 
We don't have a single homeless shelter for men going into this winter season and by last count 250 children in Urbana are listed as homeless.
The solution is not dropping huge sums of cash on suppressing the symptoms of poverty, it is going to the roots. Clearly the Mayor has shown that she can find money when she considers it a priority.
There are 3 challengers for Mayor this Spring. Let all of them know that if they want our vote they need to get behind:
No more racial profiling, invest in programs not more police protect our civil liberties in the Trump-era with local legislation.
Danielle
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From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 22:41:26 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2016 16:41:26 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Re: Ways to take action this week!
Message-ID: <5sww8mgs0iljji7809fflalm.1480977686179@email.android.com>




On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Megan Flowers wrote:
Hi Friends,
Big thanks to all those who came out and supported CU Immigration Forum last week and talked about immigration in our cities! Another big thanks to our amazing volunteers and the panelists who helped make this happen. We are ready with you to turn that great energy into action. Check out some of the opportunities below to get involved this week:

1.Show up to the Urbana City Council meeting today, Monday December 5, at 7pm to support a proposal for Urbana to adopt Chicago's Sanctuary ordinance. You don't have to be an Urbana resident to show up and your presence alone will speak volumes! Agenda and other info here: http://www.urbanaillinois.us/node/6064

Commit to going to the meeting by filling out this form: https://goo.gl/forms/p19AU4LVDvihHRqI2. Add your name and contact information so that a CU-SURJ coordinator can help you stay accountable to your commitment.

We also need people to share stories, be they personal, ones you've heard in the community, or at our meeting last week. Please also consider adding your voice in this way too. It is important that we give context to this policy discussion.
2. Here is another way to get involved! Please consider attending this meeting with our friends at CU-FAIR this Wednesday, 12 Noon at St Patrick's Catholic Church in Urbana (708 W. Main St, Urbana). Details below. Many supporters of faith, churches, and community organizations comprise this group. This is an opportunity to learn more about how your church or organization can get involved in resettlement work and supporting immigrants through direct service avenues. Hope you can join us this Wednesday.
3. Attend the IF Student/Volunteer group meeting this Wednesday at 5:30pm here at the University YMCA, 1001 S Wright, Champaign. (in Clark Lounge, first floor of the Y). One of the items up for discussion is helping plan and organize Know Your Rights workshops for immigrant families in Champaign County. We will revisit our previous presentation format and update it with new curriculum provided by the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights and start planning for opportunities to present as early as this Saturday.
4. Enjoy some local music and support our work moving forward at the Supporting Immigrants Locally: A benefit concert! Happening this Saturday, December 10 from 8pm-10pm at Pizza M (208 W. Main Street, Urbana)
Show support for local efforts to implement immigrant-friendly policies and welcome immigrants in light of the recent election, Planner’s Network is hosting a concert to benefit the C-U Immigration Forum. The C-U immigration Forum works to support immigrants and educate the wider community about issues surrounding immigration.

Learn more about the Forum’s current efforts here: http://immigration-forum.blogspot.com/p/current-issues.html

If you would like to help out, but are unable to attend the concert, you can donate to the CU Immigration Forum here: http://immigration-forum.blogspot.com/p/support.html

Equipment needed: Flying Machine can provide one mic, mic stand, and a guitar amp which they use for vocals. Rachael can provide another amp. However if anyone could provide a PA system and some extra mics that would be great! Please pm Rachael on Facebook if you are willing to provide any of these things. Here is the link to the event on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/1596527103989730/
Hope to see you there!

5. Join us as we build resilient, organized local communities that defend human rights, meet human needs, and reflect the world we want to create together. Join The People’s Agenda Sunday, December 11th from 3-6pm at the Champaign Public Library (200 W. Green Street, Champaign, IL) to help build a coalition to defend our community against the next four years of devastating federal policy, and build our collective power to make change in upcoming elections. 
→ Learn from local organizers the anticipated impacts of a federal policy on immigration, health care, the environment, and civil rights. 
→ Be part of strategy discussions on how we can make a difference locally.
→ Join our “Get Plugged In” fair and learn how you can volunteer with local organizations. We'll be there! Come visit the Immigration Forum about volunteer opportunities and other ways to support.

The People’s Agenda develops strategy, education, and people power to build political power for the inclusion of and advocacy for those who have been systematically disempowered. For more information about The People’s Agenda, check out our website: thepeoplesagenda.com and find them on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
6. Please take 2 minutes to call Governor Rauner and tell him to support the Illinois Is Safe Platform. It's so crucial that you add your voice. Please report your calls on our statewide coalition's website at: www.icirr.org/report







-- 
Best,
Megan Flowers Communications Director
La Línea Program Coordinator 
University YMCA
P: 217-337-1500
F: 217-337-1533
E: megan at universityymca.org
E: lalinea at universityymca.orgW: universityymca.orgW: lalinea.weebly.com





-- 
Best,
Megan Flowers Communications Director
La Línea Program Coordinator 
University YMCA
P: 217-337-1500
F: 217-337-1533
E: megan at universityymca.org
E: lalinea at universityymca.orgW: universityymca.orgW: lalinea.weebly.com





-- 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CU Immigration Forum" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cu-immigration-forum+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to cu-immigration-forum at googlegroups.com.

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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Tue Dec  6 13:13:48 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 07:13:48 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Jews for Keith: documents
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSs6dOXfXGDSsPh6VerKktHPzbu3sePYdL4aTjyhvSA0g@mail.gmail.com>

Jews for Keith: documents


Jews for Keith: documents

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/1708

Keith platform:
https://keithfordnc.org/platform/



Keith endorsements:

https://keithfordnc.org/endorsements



Keith statement on Medium:

https://medium.com/@ellisonforcongress/listening-
more-talking-less-2bb36e171dca



Keith open letter to the ADL:

https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/804452986110013440

===



Jews defend Keith from the ADL's smear campaign:



J Street:

http://jstreet.org/press-releases/continuing-attacks-
congressman-ellison-seek-silence-legitimate-positions-israel/

Americans for Peace Now, Bend the Arc, Rabbi Marc Schneier:

http://www.jta.org/2016/11/18/news-opinion/politics/keith-
elllisons-jewish-defenders-rally-after-attacks-from-the-pro-israel-right



Chuck Schumer:

https://twitter.com/gdebenedetti/status/804460430785650689



Bernie Sanders:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-
support-keith-ellison-231185
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/keith-ellison-dnc-resistance-231575

Randi Weingarten:

https://www.facebook.com/randi.weingarten.9/posts/10154757721829524



JJ Goldberg:

http://forward.com/opinion/355950/no-the-keith-ellison-
tape-isnt-anti-israel-and-shouldnt-torpedo-his-democra/

Jay Michaelson:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/02/squabble-
over-keith-ellison-reveals-dilemma-for-democrats-on-israel.html



Ilya Sheyman:

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/1707



Glenn Greenwald:

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-
against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/


===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Tue Dec  6 20:45:56 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 14:45:56 -0600
Subject: [Peace] =?utf-8?q?Jewish_Voice_for_Peace=3A_Defending_Israeli_Apa?=
	=?utf-8?q?rtheid_=E2=89=A0_Fighting_Antisemitism?=
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSN4Gk7KGU6jV22Z83hGWCSEQWdYeFjeczqz=X43fb=nA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ari Wohlfeiler <ari at jewishvoiceforpeace.org>
Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 2:26 PM
Subject: Defending Israeli Apartheid ≠ Fighting Antisemitism
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic. How many times do we have to say it?

Dear Robert,

On Friday, without a single Senator in the Senate Chamber, the Senate
unanimously passed the Antisemitism Awareness Act.

Judging by the title, it seems a reasonable enough piece of legislation.
And the Anti-Defamation League was one of its main boosters.

But let’s look closer with a short pop quiz about why the ADL is behind
this bill:

*a) To make it clear that actual neo-Nazis like the National Policy
Institute, now in close proximity to power, are going to face real scrutiny
and condemnation?*

*b) To help prevent more violence against synagogues and Jewish poeple,
like the dozens of instances of hate crimes and vandalism documented since
the election?*

*c) To protect the Israeli government from student protesters?*

Probably the best way to figure out why the ADL supports it is to read what
they’re saying themselves:

<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=CWzUoTwgABbL%2BiBkN4C2vXO6z3wSsjlC>

*Sadly, the answer is “C.”*

At a time when actual violence and bigotry against Jews is on the rise,
Jewish institutions like the ADL are seizing the moment to… protect Israel
from student protesters. *That's not acceptable.*

*We have to make sure Congressional reps hear from a more equality-focused
perspective. Click here to send them a note urging them not to be fooled by
the ASAA’s title. Enough pretending that defending Israeli policies is the
same as fighting antisemitism. It’s time to get down to the actual business
of protecting us all - especially Muslims and people of color - from hate.*
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=840Y641t8T4b4EqOtgCvSHO6z3wSsjlC>

I shouldn’t be shocked, but I am. "Leading" Jewish institutions have made
it clear to they care more about defending Israel’s racist policies than
the real slog of fighting antisemitism. Student activists -- Jewish,
Palestinian, Muslim, Black, documented, white, and otherwise --  pose no
threat to Jews. The only threat they pose is to the culture of silence
around Israeli apartheid.

*Attempts to silence human rights activists are always appalling. But in
this time of crisis, when actual antisemitism is seeping from our political
discourse and into our streets? That is truly disgusting.*

*As Jews and allies we have an outsized voice on this one. Please, click
here now and help fight this Orwellian legislation in the House.*
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=F5PKHLOVHrLelEuMnICSTXO6z3wSsjlC>

And here’s another example: Rep. Keith Ellison is running to become Chair
of the DNC. As a 501c3, JVP takes no position on any election, but I will
say this: I’ve met Rep. Ellison, and he’s a good and honorable man, utterly
devoted to fighting antisemitism and all forms of racism. But he’s also
dared to offer modest criticisms of Israeli policy, always condemning
hatred at the same time.

For that, he’s been railroaded and smeared by far-right Islamophobic front
groups. And here again, the ADL is carrying water for these hatemongers by
lending their name and their weight to the attacks against him.

The ADL’s support for the “Antisemitism Awareness Act” and their attacks on
Keith Ellison are both proof that their commitment to fighting hatred is an
empty shirt. They’re not interested in really taking on antisemitism and
islamophobia. They’re only interested in shilling for Israeli apartheid.

*But their attacks get listened to, because Congress thinks they speak for
the whole Jewish community. Show that they don't -- click here to email
your Representative.*
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=guSSPbXUP7wSH%2Fzy2S4NwnO6z3wSsjlC>

If “leading” Jewish organizations want to place their loyalty to shameful
Israeli policies above the urgent fight against islamophobia and
antisemitism, we’re going to have to step up.

Our Muslim brothers and sisters have made it quite clear that the fight
against islamophobia and antisemitism go hand-in-hand. But the ADL isn’t
stepping up to the plate -- they’re too busy condemning students who dare
to criticise Israeli apartheid.

That leaves space for JVP. We can be the Jewish organization that takes on
our fair share of that work -- the hard but vital work of fighting
antisemitism and Islamophobia, wherever it exists.

Onwards,

Ari

Ari Wohlfeiler
Deputy Director
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=gDJMVLOHI9lbbaXJdElR1XO6z3wSsjlC>

Jewish Voice for Peace is a national membership organization inspired by
Jewish tradition to work for the freedom, equality, and dignity of all the
people of Israel and Palestine. Become a JVP Member today
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=WNxQ0ouaW%2BEFQlX%2FuSl6InO6z3wSsjlC>
.

   - Donate
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www.Jewishvoiceforpeace.org
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2BBr4zDjctyw42qTAANu59HO6z3wSsjlC>

1611 Telegraph Ave. Suite 1020 Oakland, CA 94612

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From carl at newsfromneptune.com  Wed Dec  7 14:58:48 2016
From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 08:58:48 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Pearl Harbor and vicious US war mythology
In-Reply-To: <9957F4C3-20F8-4DBD-A034-A458B8CDE50C@illinois.edu>
References: <9957F4C3-20F8-4DBD-A034-A458B8CDE50C@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <A53DB348-E14C-4302-B83A-596C5CD2AFAB@newsfromneptune.com>

On this 75th anniversary of Japan's attack on (parts of) the US Navy fleet in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, the internets cough up this movie review I wrote in the year of the 60th anniversary:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2001/06/05/pearl-harbor-revisited/ <http://www.counterpunch.org/2001/06/05/pearl-harbor-revisited/>

See now David Swanson's excellent and daunting "75 Years of Pearl Harbor Lies" <http://davidswanson.org/node/5367>.

—CGE
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec  7 16:11:10 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:11:10 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Breaking News: Ellison: I'll resign from House if I win DNC
	chair
Message-ID: <CALMNhNRtQ7ev8FaidmLE-HJKsboM2b=OQfG2HJb7U_76Hzdq4A@mail.gmail.com>

The fake issue is taken off the table.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: The Hill <thehill at email.thehill.com>
Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:59 AM
Subject: Breaking News: Ellison: I'll resign from House if I win DNC chair
To: Subscriber <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>





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<http://click1.email.thehill.com/ashsrvbzlmmncvcmnyhllnsslbngmbmwwplzvtgmkthhs_aktdhslk.html>

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) on Wednesday said he will resign from Congress
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From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  7 18:00:46 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (Karen Medina)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:00:46 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Building Community Power in a Trump Era / Sunday, Dec. 11,
	2016 / 3pm
Message-ID: <CA+0uwiYa0owhBDADSY0K3ifVAgyVez-UwhgP3JdWUjAAR5xCsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Event: The People's Agenda: Building Community Power in a Trump Era
Hate Has No Home Here.
Sunday, December 11, 2016
3pm-6pm
Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center (we outgrew the library) /
202 S. Broadway Ave., Urbana, IL 61801
https://www.facebook.com/events/703025309875339/permalink/708345902676613/

From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  7 18:02:22 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (Karen Medina)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:02:22 -0600
Subject: [Peace] first hand accounts from Standing Rock / Wed Dec 7,
 2016 / 6pm / Channing-Murray Foundation
Message-ID: <CA+0uwiZza6Afq4JNB3h1DXi87eCg8GBNnM8ZbjfEDP3zOMhNOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Event: Make a Stand with Standing Rock
First person accounts from North Dakota.
Featuring live entertainment.
Food provided by The Red Herring Vegetarian Restaurant.
Listen. Laugh. Learn.
Wednesday, December 7, 2016
6pm-9pm
Channing-Murray Chapel (main floor) / 1209 W. Oregon St., Urbana, IL
Free to attend. It is a fundraiser, resource raiser.

Yes, the struggle continues.
* Depending on how confident Standing Rock is that the construction
will not continue if the people leave, they may stay where they are.
We are aware that the fines for violating the order to stop
construction are small compared to the profit of the completed
project.
* If the people leave, there are people there who have been there for
months -- and have lost their jobs and/or used up their financial
resources. Those that need to leave could use help paying for
transportation to leave.
* Plus, the new regime begins in a little over a month.

From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  7 18:07:29 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (Karen Medina)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:07:29 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Know Your Rights for Immigrants / Wed Dec 7,
	2016 / 5:30pm / U YMCA
Message-ID: <CA+0uwiac_F8HC4JQJeCCnsO9xFAzs=fASiVzx4MY2QKQhGh-wg@mail.gmail.com>

The student/volunteer group of Immigration Forum is having their
weekly Wednesday meeting tonight (Wednesday, December 7, 2016) at
5:30pm at the University YMCA, 1001 S. Wright St (in Clark Lounge).

** We will be discussing the updated Know Your Rights curriculum and
materials when encountering immigration police.**

Given the concerns of family members shared in Unit 4 and Unit 116
districts, I invite any advocates/educators from the local schools to
attend tonight's meeting.

We are preparing for a shorter version of the training to take place
at the Multicultural Center in Rantoul this Saturday and then discuss
a Know Your Rights outreach timeline and other strategies that speak
to questions/concerns of families.



-- 
-- karen medina
"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain

From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec  7 22:15:27 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 16:15:27 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Jeremy Ben-Ami/Jesse Myerson/John Nichols: Stop smearing
	Keith Ellison
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTnGC8+7Dcdw10mOOxFig3_OrJonQuyYSZP75b4i=aGZw@mail.gmail.com>

Jeremy Ben-Ami: Stop smearing Keith Ellison

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/stop-smearing-keith-ellison/2016/12/06/2b982b4a-bbd2-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html



Jesse Myerson: Keith Ellison isn’t an anti-Semite. He’s the victim of a
vicious smear.

Perpetuating malicious attacks against Ellison is tantamount to
collaborating with Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/07/keith-ellison-isnt-an-anti-semite-hes-the-victim-of-a-vicious-smear/



John Nichols: Keith Ellison Is No Anti-Semite

The candidate for DNC chair is being criticized for taking positions that
are perfectly consistent with the views of the majority of American Jews.
https://www.thenation.com/article/keith-ellison-is-no-anti-semite/

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec  7 23:24:10 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 17:24:10 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Ellison/Johnson letter to Kerry/Lew on human rights in
	Honduras
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQdhBraeqjXsd14xmyvj8V+CdZB=4hb8=uXYxUDyKWQmQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://ellison.house.gov/sites/ellison.house.gov/files/
2016.12.06%20Letter%20to%20Kerry%20and%20Lew%20on%20Honduras.pdf

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
December 7, 2016
Press Contact
Isaiah Kirshner-Breen

Reps. Ellison and Johnson Call for Accountability for Human Rights Abuses
in Honduras

WASHINGTON– Reps. Keith Ellison (D-MN) and Hank Johnson (D-GA), along with
27 Members of the House, sent a letter today to Secretary of State John
Kerry and Secretary of Treasury Jacob Lew expressing growing concern about
human rights violations in Honduras. This letter coincides with the
nine-month anniversary of Berta Cáceres’s tragic murder.

The full text of the letter appears below, and the signed letter can be
viewed here.

Dear Secretary Kerry and Secretary Lew:

We write to follow up on our letter of March 17, 2016, signed by 62 Members
of Congress, in which we expressed our concerns regarding the murder of
Berta Cáceres -- the internationally-renowned Honduran Indigenous rights
advocate-- and regarding human rights and U.S. policy in Honduras more
generally. Since that time, our fears have only increased.

​We are concerned that the Government of Honduras continues to unduly limit
access to the investigation into the murder of Ms. Cáceras and Gustavo
Castro, a key witness who was shot along with Ms. Cáceres. Under Honduran
law, victims and their families have the right to actively participate in
the prosecution of the case; however, Ms. Cáceres’s investigative file
remains secret seven months later. This significantly constrains the
family’s legally guaranteed involvement in the case and limits its ability
to advocate for a speedy prosecution of those implicated.

We are also alarmed that Honduran authorities were careless in handling the
case file, as the file was allowed off government property and subsequently
stolen. This raises further questions about the ability of Honduran
authorities to manage Ms. Cáceres’s case and impartially prosecute the case.

​We were pleased to learn that five suspects were arrested in connection
with Ms. Cáceres’s murder in May 2016 and a sixth suspect was arrested in
September. Those arrested include: a current employee of the hydroelectric
dam development company DESA, the builder of the dam that Ms. Cáceres and
the Lenca Indigenous communities in Rio Blanco actively opposed; an active
duty major in the Honduran military; and two former members of the Honduran
military, one of whom was also a former employee of DESA.

Concerns remain that authorities have not brought into custody those that
allegedly masterminded Ms. Cáceres’s murder, and authorities also did not
seize relevant evidence during searches of DESA headquarters. On June 21st,
the Guardian reported that a former soldier in a U.S.-funded Special Forces
unit recounted he had seen Ms. Cáceres’s name on a death list allegedly
belonging to the Honduran military. This, along with the identities of
those previously arrested, suggests the involvement of high-ranking
Honduran military figures in Ms. Cáceres’s assassination.

We welcome the November 14, 2016, announcement of the creation of the
International Expert Advisory Panel (GAIPE), which was formed at the
request of the Cáceres family with the support of COPINH and multiple civil
society organizations. We hope that GAIPE can contribute to an impartial
and independent examination of the pending criminal investigation. However,
the GAIPE does not have access to information beyond that available to the
family. In our March 2016 letter, we requested your assistance in
pressuring the Honduran government to support an Inter-American Commission
on Human Rights (IACHR) -led independent international investigation of Ms.
Cáceres’s case. Despite offers of assistance from the IACHR, the Government
of Honduras has not allowed such an investigation to proceed nor has the
State Department taken a clear and public position in support of an
independent IACHR investigation. We ask that you do so immediately.

Furthermore, violence against rights activists continues. COPINH activist
Nelson García was killed in March 2016 and threats have forced his family
to flee Honduras. In October 2016, Tomás Gómez Membreño, Ms. Cáceres's
successor as the general coordinator of COPINH, and Alexander García, a
local COPINH leader in Llano Grande, survived assassination attempts. Most
recently, on October 18, 2016, four masked men gunned down two land reform
advocates from the cooperative MUCA in the Aguán Valley -- an area where
over 150 land rights advocates have been killed since 2009. MUCA members
are protected by the IACHR, as was Ms. Cáceres, but the Honduran government
has not yet complied with the commission’s protection order.

Finally, American taxpayer money should not be given to a government facing
accusations of operating outside the rule of law and collaborating in
targeted assassinations. We request that the U.S. government immediately
suspend all police and military aid to Honduras until these mounting human
rights concerns are addressed. We were disturbed to learn that on September
30, 2016, the Department of State certified the Honduran government had
complied with the human rights conditions placed on aid in the FY2016
Appropriations Act, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The
Act's requirements for aid included the protection of human rights
defenders and other political activists, prosecution of security forces who
have committed human rights abuses, and the removal of the military from
internal policing. Violations of these and other threshold requirements for
aid have not been adequately addressed. We ask for the Department of State
to reconsider immediately its decision. In addition, we reiterate the
concerns expressed in our March 2016 letter regarding the termination of
the Agua Zarca dam and reconsideration of U.S. support for loans from
multilateral development banks to Honduras.

It is our hope that Ms. Cáceres's death will lead to greater justice for
the Honduran people. We appreciate your assistance in the realization of
that goal and the consideration of the above requests.

###
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec  8 22:53:26 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 16:53:26 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Jews letter in support of Keith
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTgOYfNusgouUuk6hV6xFBXtArf2n3GwZ8sq44XG-uB1g@mail.gmail.com>

"Put on your yarmulke
Here comes Hannukah
So much funnikah
To celebrate Hannukah

Hannukah is the Festival of Lights
Instead of one day of presents
We have eight crazy nights

So when you feel like the only kid in town
Without a Christmas tree
Here's a list of Keith Ellison supporters who are Jewish
Just like you and me..."

https://keithfordnc.org/sign
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec  9 14:44:30 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 08:44:30 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop Arming
	Terrorists
Message-ID: <CALMNhNS0UfkXHHGyF+_ehggx0K_Dp4Z2osiQt6duboUoSqYs6g@mail.gmail.com>

We've been encouraging Congressional offices to co-sponsor this bill. It
has always been our view that if the President can legally bomb a group
under the 2001 AUMF, then the CIA should not be allowed to give guns to
that group.

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-
tulsi-gabbard-introduces-legislation-stop-arming-terrorists
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop Arming Terrorists
December 8, 2016
Press Release

*Washington, DC*—Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) introduced the Stop Arming
Terrorists Act today. The legislation would prohibit the U.S. government
from using American taxpayer dollars to provide funding, weapons, training,
and intelligence support to groups like the Levant Front, Fursan al Ha and
other allies of Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, al-Qaeda and ISIS, or to countries
who are providing direct or indirect support to those same groups.

The legislation is cosponsored by Reps. Peter Welch (D-VT-AL), Barbara Lee
(D-CA-13), Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA-48), and Thomas Massie (R-KT-04), and
supported by the Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) and the U.S. Peace
Council.

*Video of Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s speech on the House floor is available here
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKV1sTw8zOc>*

*Rep. Tulsi Gabbard said*, “Under U.S. law it is illegal for any American
to provide money or assistance to al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups.
If you or I gave money, weapons or support to al-Qaeda or ISIS, we would be
thrown in jail. Yet the U.S. government has been violating this law for
years, quietly supporting allies and partners of al-Qaeda, ISIL, Jabhat
Fateh al Sham and other terrorist groups with money, weapons, and
intelligence support, in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government.[i
<https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-introduces-legislation-stop-arming-terrorists#_edn1>
]

“The CIA has also been funneling weapons
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/world/middleeast/arms-airlift-to-syrian-rebels-expands-with-cia-aid.html>
 and money
<http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html>
 through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and others who provide direct and
indirect support to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda. This support has allowed
al-Qaeda and their fellow terrorist organizations to establish strongholds
throughout Syria, including in Aleppo.

“A recent New York Times article
<http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/world/middleeast/donald-trump-syria.html?_r=0>
confirmed
that ‘rebel groups’ supported by the U.S. ‘have entered into battlefield
alliances with the affiliate of al-Qaeda in Syria, formerly known as
al Nusra.’ This alliance has rendered the phrase ‘moderate rebels’
meaningless. Reports
<https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/22/washingtons-new-lock-step-march-of-folly/>
confirm
that ‘every armed anti-Assad organization unit in those provinces
[of Idlib and Aleppo] is engaged in a military structure controlled by
[al-Qaeda’s] Nusra militants.’

“A recent Wall Street Journal article
<http://www.wsj.com/articles/syria-rebels-draw-closer-to-al-qaeda-linked-group-1475197943>
reported
that many rebel groups are ‘doubling down on their alliance’ with al Nusra.
Some rebel groups are renewing their alliance, while others, like
*Nour** al-Din
al-**Zinki*, a former CIA-backed group and one of the largest factions in
Aleppo are joining for the first time. “The Syria Conquest Front—formerly
known as the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front—is deeply intermingled with armed
opposition groups of all stripes across Syria’s battlefields.”

“The CIA has long been supporting
<http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-cia-pentagon-isis-20160327-story.html>
a
group called Fursan al Haqq, providing them with salaries, weapons and
support, including surface to air missiles.  This group is cooperating with
and fighting alongside an al-Qaeda affiliated group trying to overthrow the
Syrian government. The Levant Front
<http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/57605?lang=en> is another so-called moderate
umbrella group of Syrian opposition fighters. Over the past year, the
United States has been working with Turkey to give this group intelligence
support and other forms of military assistance. This group has joined
forces with al-Qaeda’s offshoot group in Syria.

“This madness must end. We must stop arming terrorists. The Government must
end this hypocrisy and abide by the same laws that apply to its’ citizens.

“That is why I’ve introduced the Stop Arming Terrorists bill—legislation
based on congressional action during the Iran-Contra affair to stop the
CIA’s illegal arming of rebels in Nicaragua. It will prohibit any Federal
agency from using taxpayer dollars to provide weapons, cash, intelligence,
or any support to al-Qaeda, ISIS and other terrorist groups, and it will
prohibit the government from funneling money and weapons through other
countries who are directly or indirectly supporting terrorists,” *concluded
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard.*

*Stephen Kinzer, a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International
Studies at Brown University, and award-winning author and journalist said*,
“The proposal to stop sending weapons to insurgents in Syria is based on
the principle that pouring arms into a war zone only intensifies suffering
and makes peace more difficult to achieve. Congress made a decision like
this about the Nicaraguan contras during the 1980s. Aid to the contras was
cut off by the Boland Amendment. The result was a peace process that
finally brought an end to wars not only in Nicaragua, but also in El
Salvador and Guatemala. This is the example we should be following. Cutting
off arms shipments forces belligerents to negotiate. That is what we
achieved in Nicaragua. It should be our goal in Syria as well.”

*Donna Smith, Executive Director of Progressive Democrats of America said*,
"Progressive Democrats of America believes that it is fundamentally wrong
for the United States to fund those groups or individuals aligned with
al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist/extremist
organizations.  The 'Stop Arming Terrorists' bill authored by Rep. Tulsi
Gabbard, of Hawaii's 2nd Congressional District, would help bring an end to
the human tragedy unfolding in Syria where the haunting eyes of the
innocent children of Aleppo call on us all to stop supporting those who
threaten and kill them with ferocious intention. War is war, and terrorism
is terrorism whether waged by the state or from external forces. PDA
supports this measure."

*Alfred Marder, President of the U.S. Peace Council said,* “The U.S. Peace
Council is honored to endorse and support the ‘Stop Arming Terrorists Bill’
as a major contribution to peace. This legislation will serve to galvanize
the anti-war movement and the opposition to regime change policies that
characterize our present foreign policy.”

*Background:* The Stop Arming Terrorists bill prohibits U.S. government
funds from being used to support al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups.
In the same way that Congress passed the Boland Amendment to prohibit the
funding and support to CIA backed-Nicaraguan Contras during the 1980’s,
this bill would stop CIA or other Federal government activities in places
like Syria by ensuring U.S. funds are not used to support al-Qaeda, Jabhat
Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist groups working with them. It would
also prohibit the Federal government from funding assistance to countries
that are directly or indirectly supporting those terrorist groups. The bill
achieves this by:

   1. Making it illegal for any U.S. Federal government funds to be used to
   provide assistance covered in this bill to terrorists. The assistance
   covered includes weapons, munitions, weapons platforms, intelligence,
   logistics, training, and cash.
   2. Making it illegal for the U.S. government to provide assistance
   covered in the bill to any nation that has given or continues to give such
   assistance to terrorists.
   3. Requiring the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) to determine
   the individual and groups that should be considered terrorists, for the
   purposes of this bill, by determining: (a) the individuals and groups that
   are associated with, affiliated with, adherents to or cooperating with
   al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, or ISIS; (b) the countries that are
   providing assistance covered in this bill to those individuals or groups.
   4. Requiring the DNI to review and update the list of countries and
   groups to which assistance is prohibited every six months, in consultation
   with the House Foreign Affairs and Armed Services Committees, as well as
   the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
   5. Requiring the DNI to brief Congress on the determinations.



###

------------------------------

[i]
<https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-introduces-legislation-stop-arming-terrorists#_ednref1>
Levant
Front (U.S. backed, via the MOC in Turkey) is working under an Ahrar al
Sham led umbrella group: http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/
default/files/December%202%20EDITS%20COT_2.pdf ; U.S. support for Levant
Front: http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/57605?lang=en ; CIA groups cooperated
with Jayesh al-Fateh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/
2016/01/19/the-cia-s-syria-program-and-the-perils-of-proxies.html; U.S.
weapons arriving in Syria through covert, CIA-led program, via Saudi Arabia
and Turkey; CIA can provide support http://www.reuters.
com/article/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
Issues:
Protecting Our National Security Interests & Defense
<https://gabbard.house.gov/issues/national-security-and-defense>

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec  9 15:52:16 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 09:52:16 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop
	Arming Terrorists
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNS0UfkXHHGyF+_ehggx0K_Dp4Z2osiQt6duboUoSqYs6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNS0UfkXHHGyF+_ehggx0K_Dp4Z2osiQt6duboUoSqYs6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B2F645E-62FE-40BC-8C4B-51CA8BE7E214@illinois.edu>

Meanwhile, on the other side, Obama signs a waiver allowing dangerous anti-Russian/Syrian AF weapons to go to the jihadists the US has been sponsoring.

Why the sudden haste? Obama and the neocons want to raise risk of war with Russia in Syria before Trump can get into office and stop it.

—CGE


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> We've been encouraging Congressional offices to co-sponsor this bill. It has always been our view that if the President can legally bomb a group under the 2001 AUMF, then the CIA should not be allowed to give guns to that group. 
>  
> https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-introduces-legislation-stop-arming-terrorists
> Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop Arming Terrorists
> December 8, 2016 Press Release
> Washington, DC—Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) introduced the Stop Arming Terrorists Act today. The legislation would prohibit the U.S. government from using American taxpayer dollars to provide funding, weapons, training, and intelligence support to groups like the Levant Front, Fursan al Ha and other allies of Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, al-Qaeda and ISIS, or to countries who are providing direct or indirect support to those same groups.
> 
> The legislation is cosponsored by Reps. Peter Welch (D-VT-AL), Barbara Lee (D-CA-13), Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA-48), and Thomas Massie (R-KT-04), and supported by the Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) and the U.S. Peace Council.
> 
> Video of Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s speech on the House floor is available here
> 
> Rep. Tulsi Gabbard said, “Under U.S. law it is illegal for any American to provide money or assistance to al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups. If you or I gave money, weapons or support to al-Qaeda or ISIS, we would be thrown in jail. Yet the U.S. government has been violating this law for years, quietly supporting allies and partners of al-Qaeda, ISIL, Jabhat Fateh al Sham and other terrorist groups with money, weapons, and intelligence support, in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government.[i]
> 
> “The CIA has also been funneling weapons and money through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and others who provide direct and indirect support to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda. This support has allowed al-Qaeda and their fellow terrorist organizations to establish strongholds throughout Syria, including in Aleppo.  
> 
> “A recent New York Times article confirmed that ‘rebel groups’ supported by the U.S. ‘have entered into battlefield alliances with the affiliate of al-Qaeda in Syria, formerly known as al Nusra.’ This alliance has rendered the phrase ‘moderate rebels’ meaningless. Reports confirm that ‘every armed anti-Assad organization unit in those provinces [of Idlib and Aleppo] is engaged in a military structure controlled by [al-Qaeda’s] Nusra militants.’
> 
> “A recent Wall Street Journal article reported that many rebel groups are ‘doubling down on their alliance’ with al Nusra. Some rebel groups are renewing their alliance, while others, like Nour al-Din al-Zinki, a former CIA-backed group and one of the largest factions in Aleppo are joining for the first time. “The Syria Conquest Front—formerly known as the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front—is deeply intermingled with armed opposition groups of all stripes across Syria’s battlefields.” 
> 
> “The CIA has long been supporting a group called Fursan al Haqq, providing them with salaries, weapons and support, including surface to air missiles.  This group is cooperating with and fighting alongside an al-Qaeda affiliated group trying to overthrow the Syrian government. The Levant Front is another so-called moderate umbrella group of Syrian opposition fighters. Over the past year, the United States has been working with Turkey to give this group intelligence support and other forms of military assistance. This group has joined forces with al-Qaeda’s offshoot group in Syria. 
> 
> “This madness must end. We must stop arming terrorists. The Government must end this hypocrisy and abide by the same laws that apply to its’ citizens. 
> 
> “That is why I’ve introduced the Stop Arming Terrorists bill—legislation based on congressional action during the Iran-Contra affair to stop the CIA’s illegal arming of rebels in Nicaragua. It will prohibit any Federal agency from using taxpayer dollars to provide weapons, cash, intelligence, or any support to al-Qaeda, ISIS and other terrorist groups, and it will prohibit the government from funneling money and weapons through other countries who are directly or indirectly supporting terrorists,” concluded Rep. Tulsi Gabbard.
> 
> Stephen Kinzer, a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University, and award-winning author and journalist said, “The proposal to stop sending weapons to insurgents in Syria is based on the principle that pouring arms into a war zone only intensifies suffering and makes peace more difficult to achieve. Congress made a decision like this about the Nicaraguan contras during the 1980s. Aid to the contras was cut off by the Boland Amendment. The result was a peace process that finally brought an end to wars not only in Nicaragua, but also in El Salvador and Guatemala. This is the example we should be following. Cutting off arms shipments forces belligerents to negotiate. That is what we achieved in Nicaragua. It should be our goal in Syria as well.”
> 
> Donna Smith, Executive Director of Progressive Democrats of America said, "Progressive Democrats of America believes that it is fundamentally wrong for the United States to fund those groups or individuals aligned with al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist/extremist organizations.  The 'Stop Arming Terrorists' bill authored by Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, of Hawaii's 2nd Congressional District, would help bring an end to the human tragedy unfolding in Syria where the haunting eyes of the innocent children of Aleppo call on us all to stop supporting those who threaten and kill them with ferocious intention. War is war, and terrorism is terrorism whether waged by the state or from external forces. PDA supports this measure."
> 
> Alfred Marder, President of the U.S. Peace Council said, “The U.S. Peace Council is honored to endorse and support the ‘Stop Arming Terrorists Bill’ as a major contribution to peace. This legislation will serve to galvanize the anti-war movement and the opposition to regime change policies that characterize our present foreign policy.”
> 
> Background: The Stop Arming Terrorists bill prohibits U.S. government funds from being used to support al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups. In the same way that Congress passed the Boland Amendment to prohibit the funding and support to CIA backed-Nicaraguan Contras during the 1980’s, this bill would stop CIA or other Federal government activities in places like Syria by ensuring U.S. funds are not used to support al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist groups working with them. It would also prohibit the Federal government from funding assistance to countries that are directly or indirectly supporting those terrorist groups. The bill achieves this by:
> 
> 	• Making it illegal for any U.S. Federal government funds to be used to provide assistance covered in this bill to terrorists. The assistance covered includes weapons, munitions, weapons platforms, intelligence, logistics, training, and cash.
> 	• Making it illegal for the U.S. government to provide assistance covered in the bill to any nation that has given or continues to give such assistance to terrorists.
> 	• Requiring the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) to determine the individual and groups that should be considered terrorists, for the purposes of this bill, by determining: (a) the individuals and groups that are associated with, affiliated with, adherents to or cooperating with al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, or ISIS; (b) the countries that are providing assistance covered in this bill to those individuals or groups.
> 	• Requiring the DNI to review and update the list of countries and groups to which assistance is prohibited every six months, in consultation with the House Foreign Affairs and Armed Services Committees, as well as the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
> 	• Requiring the DNI to brief Congress on the determinations.
>  
> ###
> 
>  
> [i] Levant Front (U.S. backed, via the MOC in Turkey) is working under an Ahrar al Sham led umbrella group: http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/December%202%20EDITS%20COT_2.pdf ; U.S. support for Levant Front: http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/57605?lang=en ; CIA groups cooperated with Jayesh al-Fateh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/19/the-cia-s-syria-program-and-the-perils-of-proxies.html; U.S. weapons arriving in Syria through covert, CIA-led program, via Saudi Arabia and Turkey; CIA can provide support http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
> 
> Issues: Protecting Our National Security Interests & Defense
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 16:44:21 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 10:44:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop
	Arming Terrorists
In-Reply-To: <9B2F645E-62FE-40BC-8C4B-51CA8BE7E214@illinois.edu>
References: <CALMNhNS0UfkXHHGyF+_ehggx0K_Dp4Z2osiQt6duboUoSqYs6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <9B2F645E-62FE-40BC-8C4B-51CA8BE7E214@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <73CC16A2-BAA1-481B-9C4C-137D379FA4A8@gmail.com>

Wow! Do you really think Trump is going to be a "peace" president? He wants to expand nuclear armaments, and his inflammatory rhetoric threatens to destabilize international relationships. 
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 9:52 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Meanwhile, on the other side, Obama signs a waiver allowing dangerous anti-Russian/Syrian AF weapons to go to the jihadists the US has been sponsoring.
> 
> Why the sudden haste? Obama and the neocons want to raise risk of war with Russia in Syria before Trump can get into office and stop it.
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> We've been encouraging Congressional offices to co-sponsor this bill. It has always been our view that if the President can legally bomb a group under the 2001 AUMF, then the CIA should not be allowed to give guns to that group. 
>> 
>> https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-introduces-legislation-stop-arming-terrorists
>> Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Legislation to Stop Arming Terrorists
>> December 8, 2016 Press Release
>> Washington, DC—Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) introduced the Stop Arming Terrorists Act today. The legislation would prohibit the U.S. government from using American taxpayer dollars to provide funding, weapons, training, and intelligence support to groups like the Levant Front, Fursan al Ha and other allies of Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, al-Qaeda and ISIS, or to countries who are providing direct or indirect support to those same groups.
>> 
>> The legislation is cosponsored by Reps. Peter Welch (D-VT-AL), Barbara Lee (D-CA-13), Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA-48), and Thomas Massie (R-KT-04), and supported by the Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) and the U.S. Peace Council.
>> 
>> Video of Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s speech on the House floor is available here
>> 
>> Rep. Tulsi Gabbard said, “Under U.S. law it is illegal for any American to provide money or assistance to al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups. If you or I gave money, weapons or support to al-Qaeda or ISIS, we would be thrown in jail. Yet the U.S. government has been violating this law for years, quietly supporting allies and partners of al-Qaeda, ISIL, Jabhat Fateh al Sham and other terrorist groups with money, weapons, and intelligence support, in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government.[i]
>> 
>> “The CIA has also been funneling weapons and money through Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and others who provide direct and indirect support to groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda. This support has allowed al-Qaeda and their fellow terrorist organizations to establish strongholds throughout Syria, including in Aleppo.  
>> 
>> “A recent New York Times article confirmed that ‘rebel groups’ supported by the U.S. ‘have entered into battlefield alliances with the affiliate of al-Qaeda in Syria, formerly known as al Nusra.’ This alliance has rendered the phrase ‘moderate rebels’ meaningless. Reports confirm that ‘every armed anti-Assad organization unit in those provinces [of Idlib and Aleppo] is engaged in a military structure controlled by [al-Qaeda’s] Nusra militants.’
>> 
>> “A recent Wall Street Journal article reported that many rebel groups are ‘doubling down on their alliance’ with al Nusra. Some rebel groups are renewing their alliance, while others, like Nour al-Din al-Zinki, a former CIA-backed group and one of the largest factions in Aleppo are joining for the first time. “The Syria Conquest Front—formerly known as the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front—is deeply intermingled with armed opposition groups of all stripes across Syria’s battlefields.” 
>> 
>> “The CIA has long been supporting a group called Fursan al Haqq, providing them with salaries, weapons and support, including surface to air missiles.  This group is cooperating with and fighting alongside an al-Qaeda affiliated group trying to overthrow the Syrian government. The Levant Front is another so-called moderate umbrella group of Syrian opposition fighters. Over the past year, the United States has been working with Turkey to give this group intelligence support and other forms of military assistance. This group has joined forces with al-Qaeda’s offshoot group in Syria. 
>> 
>> “This madness must end. We must stop arming terrorists. The Government must end this hypocrisy and abide by the same laws that apply to its’ citizens. 
>> 
>> “That is why I’ve introduced the Stop Arming Terrorists bill—legislation based on congressional action during the Iran-Contra affair to stop the CIA’s illegal arming of rebels in Nicaragua. It will prohibit any Federal agency from using taxpayer dollars to provide weapons, cash, intelligence, or any support to al-Qaeda, ISIS and other terrorist groups, and it will prohibit the government from funneling money and weapons through other countries who are directly or indirectly supporting terrorists,” concluded Rep. Tulsi Gabbard.
>> 
>> Stephen Kinzer, a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University, and award-winning author and journalist said, “The proposal to stop sending weapons to insurgents in Syria is based on the principle that pouring arms into a war zone only intensifies suffering and makes peace more difficult to achieve. Congress made a decision like this about the Nicaraguan contras during the 1980s. Aid to the contras was cut off by the Boland Amendment. The result was a peace process that finally brought an end to wars not only in Nicaragua, but also in El Salvador and Guatemala. This is the example we should be following. Cutting off arms shipments forces belligerents to negotiate. That is what we achieved in Nicaragua. It should be our goal in Syria as well.”
>> 
>> Donna Smith, Executive Director of Progressive Democrats of America said, "Progressive Democrats of America believes that it is fundamentally wrong for the United States to fund those groups or individuals aligned with al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist/extremist organizations.  The 'Stop Arming Terrorists' bill authored by Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, of Hawaii's 2nd Congressional District, would help bring an end to the human tragedy unfolding in Syria where the haunting eyes of the innocent children of Aleppo call on us all to stop supporting those who threaten and kill them with ferocious intention. War is war, and terrorism is terrorism whether waged by the state or from external forces. PDA supports this measure."
>> 
>> Alfred Marder, President of the U.S. Peace Council said, “The U.S. Peace Council is honored to endorse and support the ‘Stop Arming Terrorists Bill’ as a major contribution to peace. This legislation will serve to galvanize the anti-war movement and the opposition to regime change policies that characterize our present foreign policy.”
>> 
>> Background: The Stop Arming Terrorists bill prohibits U.S. government funds from being used to support al-Qaeda, ISIS or other terrorist groups. In the same way that Congress passed the Boland Amendment to prohibit the funding and support to CIA backed-Nicaraguan Contras during the 1980’s, this bill would stop CIA or other Federal government activities in places like Syria by ensuring U.S. funds are not used to support al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, ISIS, or other terrorist groups working with them. It would also prohibit the Federal government from funding assistance to countries that are directly or indirectly supporting those terrorist groups. The bill achieves this by:
>> 
>>    • Making it illegal for any U.S. Federal government funds to be used to provide assistance covered in this bill to terrorists. The assistance covered includes weapons, munitions, weapons platforms, intelligence, logistics, training, and cash.
>>    • Making it illegal for the U.S. government to provide assistance covered in the bill to any nation that has given or continues to give such assistance to terrorists.
>>    • Requiring the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) to determine the individual and groups that should be considered terrorists, for the purposes of this bill, by determining: (a) the individuals and groups that are associated with, affiliated with, adherents to or cooperating with al-Qaeda, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, or ISIS; (b) the countries that are providing assistance covered in this bill to those individuals or groups.
>>    • Requiring the DNI to review and update the list of countries and groups to which assistance is prohibited every six months, in consultation with the House Foreign Affairs and Armed Services Committees, as well as the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
>>    • Requiring the DNI to brief Congress on the determinations.
>> 
>> ###
>> 
>> 
>> [i] Levant Front (U.S. backed, via the MOC in Turkey) is working under an Ahrar al Sham led umbrella group: http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/December%202%20EDITS%20COT_2.pdf ; U.S. support for Levant Front: http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/57605?lang=en ; CIA groups cooperated with Jayesh al-Fateh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/19/the-cia-s-syria-program-and-the-perils-of-proxies.html; U.S. weapons arriving in Syria through covert, CIA-led program, via Saudi Arabia and Turkey; CIA can provide support http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
>> 
>> Issues: Protecting Our National Security Interests & Defense
>> 
>> ===
>> 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec 11 17:02:24 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 11:02:24 -0600
Subject: [Peace] =?utf-8?q?Marcy_Wheeler=3A_Unpacking_the_New_CIA_Leak=3A_?=
	=?utf-8?q?Don=E2=80=99t_Ignore_the_Aluminum_Tube_Footnote?=
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQBGukbfRjPS+wRH7GYpnTkhd_VwXR2OnE2aPdXOGS8xQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/09/unpacking-new-cia-
leak-dont-ignore-aluminum-tube-footnote/



*UNPACKING THE NEW CIA LEAK: DON’T IGNORE THE ALUMINUM TUBE FOOTNOTE
<https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/09/unpacking-new-cia-leak-dont-ignore-aluminum-tube-footnote/>*

December 9, 2016/52 Comments
<https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/09/unpacking-new-cia-leak-dont-ignore-aluminum-tube-footnote/#comments>
/in 2016 Presidential Election
<https://www.emptywheel.net/category/2016-presidential-election/>,
Cybersecurity <https://www.emptywheel.net/category/cybersecurity/>, Russian
hacks <https://www.emptywheel.net/category/russian-hacks/> /by emptywheel
<https://www.emptywheel.net/author/emptywheel/>

This post will unpack the leak from the CIA published in the WaPo
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.8148dfd4c448>
 tonight.

Before I start with the substance of the story, consider this
background. First, if Trump comes into office on the current trajectory,
the US will let Russia help Bashar al-Assad stay in power, thwarting
a 4-year effort on the part of the Saudis to remove him from power. It will
also restructure the hierarchy of horrible human rights abusing allies the
US has, with the Saudis losing out to other human rights abusers,
potentially up to and including that other petrostate, Russia. It will also
install a ton of people with ties to the US oil industry in the cabinet,
meaning the US will effectively subsidize oil production in this country,
which will have the perhaps inadvertent result of ensuring the US remains
oil-independent even though the market can’t justify fracking right now.

The CIA is institutionally quite close with the Saudis right now, and has
been in charge of their covert war against Assad.

This story came 24 days after the White House released an anonymous
statement
<https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/11/28/white-house-attempts-unring-election-integrity-fearmongering/>
asserting,
among other things, “the Federal government did not observe any increased
level of malicious cyber activity aimed at disrupting our electoral process
on election day,” suggesting that the Russians may have been deterred.

This story was leaked within hours of the time the White House announced it
was calling for an all-intelligence community review of the Russia
intelligence, offered without much detail. Indeed, this story was leaked
and published *as an update to that story*.
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.8148dfd4c448>

Which is to say, the CIA and/or people in Congress (this story seems
primarily to come from Democratic Senators) leaked this, apparently in
response to President Obama’s not terribly urgent call to have all
intelligence agencies weigh in on the subject of Russian influence, after
weeks of Democrats pressuring him to release more information. It was
designed to both make the White House-ordered review more urgent and
influence the outcome.

So here’s what that story says.

In September, the spooks briefed “congressional leaders” (which for a
variety of reasons I wildarseguess is either a Gang of Four briefing
including Paul Ryan, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, and Harry Reid or a
briefing to SSCI plus McConnell, Reid, Jack Reed, and John McCain).
Apparently, the substance of the briefing was that Russia’s intent in
hacking Democratic entities was not to increase distrust of institutions,
but instead to elect Trump.

The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the
2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to
undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system, according to officials
briefed on the matter.

The difference between this story and other public assessments is that it
seems to identify the people — who sound like people with ties to the
Russian government but not necessarily part of it — who funneled documents
from Russia’s GRU to Wikileaks.

Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the
Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails
from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary
Clinton’s campaign chairman, according to U.S. officials. Those officials
described the individuals as actors known to the intelligence community and
part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances.

[snip]

[I]ntelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials
in the Kremlin “directing” the identified individuals to pass the
Democratic emails to WikiLeaks, a second senior U.S. official said. Those
actors, according to the official, were “one step” removed from the Russian
government, rather than government employees.

This is the part that has always been missing in the past: how the
documents got from GRU, which hacked the DNC and John Podesta, to
Wikileaks, which released them. It appears that CIA now thinks they know
the answer: some people one step removed from the Russian government,
funneling the documents from GRU hackers (presumably) to Wikileaks to be
leaked, with the intent of electing Trump.

Not everyone buys this story. Mitch McConnell doesn’t buy the intelligence.

In September, during a secret briefing for congressional leaders, Senate
Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) voiced doubts about the veracity of
the intelligence, according to officials present.

That’s one doubt raised about CIA’s claim — though like you all, I assume
Mitch McConnell shouldn’t be trusted on this front.

But McConnell wasn’t the only one. One source for this story — which sounds
like someone like Harry Reid or Dianne Feinstein — claimed that this CIA
judgment is the “consensus” view of all the intelligence agencies, a term
of art.

“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here
was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” said
a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation made to U.S.
senators. “That’s the consensus view.”

Except that in a briefing *this week* (which may have been what impressed
John McCain and Lindsey Graham to do their own investigation), that’s not
what this represented.

The CIA shared its latest assessment with key senators in a closed-door
briefing on Capitol Hill last week, in which agency officials cited a
growing body of intelligence from multiple sources. Agency briefers told
the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s
goal, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity
to discuss intelligence matters.

The CIA presentation to senators about Russia’s intentions *fell short of a
formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies*. A senior
U.S. official said there were minor disagreements among intelligence
officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions
remain unanswered. [my emphasis]

That’s a conflict. Some senior US official (often code for senior member of
Congress) says this is the consensus view. Another senior US official (or
maybe the very same one) says there are “minor disagreements.”

Remember: we went to war against Iraq, which turned out to have no WMD, in
part because no one read the “minor disagreements” from a few agencies
about some aluminum tubes. A number of Senators who didn’t read that
footnote closely (and at least one that did) are involved in this story.
What we’re being told is there are some aluminum tube type disagreements.

Let’s hear about those disagreements this time, shall we?

Here’s the big takeaway. The language “a formal US assessment produced by
all 17 intelligence agencies” is, like “a consensus view,” a term of art.
It’s an opportunity for agencies which may have differing theories of what
happened here to submit their footnotes.

That may be what Obama called for today: the formal assessment from all
agencies (though admittedly, the White House purposely left the scope and
intent of it vague).

Whatever that review is intended to be, what happened as soon as Obama
announced it is that the CIA and/or Democratic Senators started leaking
their conclusion. That’s what this story is.

Update: One other really critical detail. When the White House announced
the Obama review today, Wikileaks
<https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/807296394750992384> made what was a
bizarre statement. Linking to a CNN story
<http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/09/politics/obama-orders-review-into-russian-hacking-of-2016-election/index.html>
on
the Obama ordered review that erred
<https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/09/game-telephone-election-hacking-review/>
on
the side of blaming Russia for everything, it said, “CNN: Obama orders
report into WikiLeaks timed for release just prior to Trump presidency.”
Even though none of the statements on the review focused on what this story
does — that is, on the way that the DNC and Podesta emails got to Wikileaks
— Wikileaks nevertheless interpreted it as an inquiry targeted at it.

Update: And now David Sanger (whose story on the Obama-ordered review was
particularly bad) and Scott Shane reveal
<http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/obama-russia-election-hack.html?smid=tw-nytimes>
the
RNC also got hacked, and it is the differential leaking that leads the
spooks to believe the Russians wanted Trump to win.

They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding — which they say
was also reached with high confidence — that the Russians hacked the
Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their
attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever
information they gleaned from the Republican networks.

In the months before the election, it was largely documents from Democratic
Party systems that were leaked to the public.

This may be a fair assessment. But you would have to account for two things
before making it.

NYT now says the RNC hack was by GRU in the spring, so it is a fair
question why the DNC things got leaked but RNC did not.

Also, Sanger and Shane say “largely documents” from Dems were leaked.
That’s false. There were two streams of non-Wikileaks releases, Guccifer,
which did leak all-Dem stuff, and DC Leaks, which leaked stuff that might
be better qualified as Ukrainian related. The most publicized of documents
from the latter were from Colin Powell, which didn’t help Trump at all.

Update: It’s clear that Harry Reid (who of course is retiring and so can
leak speech and debate protected classified information without worrying
he’ll be shut off in the future) is one key driver of this story. Last
night he was saying <https://twitter.com/fshakir/status/807577216712380416>,
“”I was right. Comey was wrong. I hope he can look in the mirror and see
what he did to this country.” This morning he is on the TV saying he
believes Comey had information on this before the election.

Update, 12/10: This follow-up from WaPo
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-and-cia-give-differing-accounts-to-lawmakers-on-russias-motives-in-2016-hacks/2016/12/10/c6dfadfa-bef0-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.6194e826f818>
is
instructive, as it compares what CIA briefed the Senate Intelligence
Committee about the current state of evidence with what FBI briefed the
House Intelligence Committee about the current state of evidence. While the
focus is on different Republican and Democratic understandings of both, the
story also makes it clear that FBI definitely doesn’t back what WaPo’s
sources from yesterday said was a consensus view.

*Tags:* Bashar al-Assad
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/bashar-al-assad/>, Dianne
Feinstein <https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/dianne-feinstein/>, Donald Trump
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/donald-trump/>, Harry Reid
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/harry-reid/>, John McCain
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/john-mccain/>, John Podesta
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/john-podesta/>, Lindsey Graham
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/lindsey-graham/>, Mitch McConnell
<https://www.emptywheel.net/tag/mitch-mcconnell/>





===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 11 17:38:55 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 17:38:55 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: John Pilger talks to Sputnik News. Watch 'The Coming
 War on China' online
References: <81e01f026144a7a39810a239b.6beeae6966.20161211104452.988a0179ff.6ee699a7@mail147.suw18.rsgsv.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB034761C1644CD1D636238B23A3990@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>



Begin forwarded message:

From: John Pilger <newsletter at johnpilger.com<mailto:newsletter at johnpilger.com>>
Subject: John Pilger talks to Sputnik News. Watch 'The Coming War on China' online
Date: December 11, 2016 at 02:45:24 PST
To: <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>>
Reply-To: John Pilger <newsletter at johnpilger.com<mailto:newsletter at johnpilger.com>>


View this email in your browser<http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=988a0179ff&e=6beeae6966>


[https://gallery.mailchimp.com/81e01f026144a7a39810a239b/images/4dd4ad2b-f03c-4bc6-a2e8-397f39a0f3fe.png]<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=7c0da53173&e=6beeae6966>


Following vehement anti-China rhetoric from President-elect Donald Trump and President Obama’s Asian-pivot policies, some feel that US relations with Beijing could escalate into war. Radio Sputnik’s Loud & Clear speaks with filmmaker John Pilger about increasing tensions and how they relate to his latest movie, "The Coming War on China."  READ MORE<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=f9f62025c6&e=6beeae6966>



[https://gallery.mailchimp.com/81e01f026144a7a39810a239b/images/a06768b3-6238-4bc5-9a7b-c03ea4d4ce08.png]<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=e5f0948e11&e=6beeae6966>

John Pilger interviewed on RT's The Big Picture.  WATCH<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=1be9687646&e=6beeae6966>




The Coming War on China is now available to watch online.

**** 4 stars
"A gripping film ... a strong corrective to our bland and complacent indifference"
 The Guardian

**** 4 stars
"Essential viewing"
Radio Times

**** 4 stars
     "A film that will change hearts and minds"
The Upcoming

"Shocking, terrifying, disturbing"
Entertainment Focus

"The kind of stark warning we need"
Cinevue



WATCH The Coming War on China on ITV (UK only)<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=7facb9f2c9&e=6beeae6966>

WATCH The Coming War on China on RT (Worldwide)<http://johnpilger.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=81e01f026144a7a39810a239b&id=98d8fe8c57&e=6beeae6966>


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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 12 01:26:58 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 01:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Sanctuary City Ordinance Urbana
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB0347E043DE3AB866317416ACA3980@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

The City Council of Urbana will be discussing the Ordinance being drafted for discussion at tomorrow’s meeting, 7:00pm. 

It’s not a “done deal” we have to consider what legislators often do, water down legislation, so the passage is of little value. 

Please attend to ensure your support.

From galliher at illinois.edu  Mon Dec 12 01:31:28 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:31:28 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Sanctuary City Ordinance Urbana
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB0347E043DE3AB866317416ACA3980@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB0347E043DE3AB866317416ACA3980@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2684D0D3-F6A4-4002-8566-22B06A13B2FF@illinois.edu>

Is it only symbolic, or does it have a practical effect?


> On Dec 11, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> The City Council of Urbana will be discussing the Ordinance being drafted for discussion at tomorrow’s meeting, 7:00pm. 
> 
> It’s not a “done deal” we have to consider what legislators often do, water down legislation, so the passage is of little value. 
> 
> Please attend to ensure your support.
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From allanaxelrodufl at gmail.com  Mon Dec 12 01:43:53 2016
From: allanaxelrodufl at gmail.com (Allan Axelrod)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 17:43:53 -0800
Subject: [Peace] Sanctuary City Ordinance Urbana
In-Reply-To: <2684D0D3-F6A4-4002-8566-22B06A13B2FF@illinois.edu>
References: <CY1PR15MB0347E043DE3AB866317416ACA3980@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <2684D0D3-F6A4-4002-8566-22B06A13B2FF@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFB6C2G0DVhXpC3RHahBFtm0HYZuQW4UuScuqLuSikvqaeXKuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Actions drafted by Professor Francis Boyle, which I wrote down, are as
follows
1) All residents will be afforded services without requiring them to
disclose immigration status.
2) Although Urbana legally must comply with a court order or warrant,
Professor Boyle says he would defend any city employees, free of charge.

I do not know if point 1 is symbolic. It would depend if we currently
required immigration information for any municipal services.

I'm not sure if point 2 is in the ordinance, explicitly, but Professor
Francis Boyle at least stated that he'd do that.

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Is it only symbolic, or does it have a practical effect?
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >
> > The City Council of Urbana will be discussing the Ordinance being
> drafted for discussion at tomorrow’s meeting, 7:00pm.
> >
> > It’s not a “done deal” we have to consider what legislators often do,
> water down legislation, so the passage is of little value.
> >
> > Please attend to ensure your support.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peace mailing list
> > Peace at lists.chambana.net
> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
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From briandolinar at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 15:28:46 2016
From: briandolinar at gmail.com (Brian Dolinar)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 09:28:46 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: UPDATE: Resolution Reaffirming Urbana as a Sanctuary
	City
In-Reply-To: <CAJvW0okewOLTcJkO5SXofxc+zr2vP8PA=6yosUi+mW6bzxaFaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJvW0okewOLTcJkO5SXofxc+zr2vP8PA=6yosUi+mW6bzxaFaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADL4Vu4m_mGPQ0EwDOzFSC=_wtZcnHw+mnfve__XMNhJ7gzZ_A@mail.gmail.com>

We need folks Monday night to reactivate Urbana as a Sanctuary City! BD

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Geovanny Vega <gavegaz at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 9:46 PM
Subject: UPDATE: Resolution Reaffirming Urbana as a Sanctuary City
To: cu-immigration-forum at googlegroups.com, STEERINGcuif at googlegroups.com


Friends,

I URGE EVERYONE READING THIS MESSAGE TO JOIN US ON *MONDAY DECEMBER 19TH*
AT THE URBANA CITY BUILDING TO SHOW OUR SUPPORT FOR THIS RESOLUTION, AND TO
MAKE SURE IT PASSES. ALSO, BE SURE TO INVITE OTHER FRIENDS AND ALLIES.

Attached please find the following, as posted by the Urbana City Council on
their website today:

1) Agenda for Monday, December 19th, 2016 Council Meeting.

2) Proposed Resolution No. 2016-12-070R- A Resolution Reaffirming Urbana as
a Sanctuary City.

Also, for those of you who did not have a chance to attend the previous
council meetings, yet want to get caught up, I am attaching a " Summary &
Resource Guide," with links to the the different meeting videos and media
coverage of this issue.

The attached draft resolution has been significantly modified, compared to
previous working drafts. It looks like the title "Sanctuary" has been
preserved for now, despite the debate on this issue during the last
meeting. There are three important provisions/statements to pay attention
to:

*"WHEREAS, while recognizing the fact that undocumented immigrants who are
in the United States have committed a violation of immigration law, we
judge the human, moral, and practical negative costs and actual evils of
deportation or other major sanctions against undocumented residents of our
community and country to far outweigh the legal circumstances of their
arrival and continued residence."*

Provision #6
*"No city employee or official or department or agency of the City of
Urbana shall request information about or otherwise investigate or assist
in the investigation of the citizenship or immigration status of any person
unless such inquiry or the investigation is required by a court order.
Notwithstanding this provision, the City Attorney may investigate and
inquire about citizenship or immigration status when relevant to potential
or actual litigation or an administrative proceeding in which the City is
or may be a party."*

Provision #7
*"No city employee or official or department or agency of the City of
Urbana shall condition the provision of City benefits, opportunities or
services on matters related to citizenship or immigration status unless
required to do so by state or federal law or by a court order."*

In summation, this resolution does the following:

1.Neither the city nor its agents (including UPD), can ask people to
disclose their immigration status (with limited exceptions).

2. Neither the city nor its agents can deny benefits or services on the
basis of immigration status, unless required by state/federal law.

It is important to keep in mind that sanctuary status (despite the use of
the term) does NOT mean that undocumented immigrants are beyond the reach
of immigration authorities within Urbana city limits. This resolution aims
to govern the policy and conduct of city officials and employees, as well
as to reaffirm the city's commitment to welcome immigrants.

I believe this is a good and positive development, and one that should be
supported.

AGAIN, PLEASE JOIN US ON *MONDAY DECEMBER 19TH* AT THE URBANA CITY BUILDING
TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS RESOLUTION, AND TO MAKE SURE IT PASSES.

--
*Geovanny Vega*



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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-- 
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 17 22:31:20 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2016 22:31:20 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Resolution No. 2016-12-070R:
References: <001a11371dd2879ef90543de109b@google.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB0347EC9E423DD645B92B87C6A39F0@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>




[Google Forms]
Having trouble viewing or submitting this form?

FILL OUT IN GOOGLE FORMS<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd1pROxfjIV1-1dmX5YPH9RKNRBV6-Qpyrvk6eTE8JWXHhbkQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link>



Please sign only once. Your name will be added after we receive your information.

Thank you.

Letter in Support of Resolution No. 2016-12-070R: Resolution Reaffirming Urbana as a Sanctuary City (please sign only once)<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd1pROxfjIV1-1dmX5YPH9RKNRBV6-Qpyrvk6eTE8JWXHhbkQ/viewform?c=0&w=1&usp=mail_form_link>

December 17, 2016

Mayor Laurel Lunt Prussing
Alderman Aaron Ammons
Alderman Charlie Smyth
Alderman Dennis Roberts
Alderwoman Diane Marlin
Alderman Eric Jakobsson
Alderman Michael Madigan

Re: Resolution No. 2016-12-070R

Dear Mayor & Members of the Urbana City Council:

We are writing to voice our support for Resolution No. 2016-12-070R: A Resolution Reaffirming Urbana as a Sanctuary City; and to exhort you to support this initiative and vote in the affirmative.

It is encouraging to know that our local authorities continue to adopt measures designed to help, protect, and embrace our immigrant friends, regardless of immigration status, nationality, or creed. Our communities thrive when we are tolerant, inclusive, and mindful of our common humanity. The resolution that is now before you signifies an important step in this direction.

We want to join you in your efforts to reaffirm Urbana's commitment to the respect of human rights, and to ensure that it remains a welcoming and immigrant-friendly city.

Sincerely,

C-U Immigration Forum


Name *

City of Residence *

Email *



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From briandolinar at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 15:31:19 2016
From: briandolinar at gmail.com (Brian Dolinar)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 09:31:19 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Tonight 7pm - Re-affirming Urbana as a Sanctuary City!
Message-ID: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>

Way to go Urbana! Vote tonight 7pm, “Re-Affirming Urbana As A Sanctuary
City.”

BD

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-sanctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html

-- 
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com
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From sandra.ahten at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 15:50:45 2016
From: sandra.ahten at gmail.com (Sandra Ahten)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 09:50:45 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Announce] Tonight 7pm - Re-affirming Urbana as a
	Sanctuary City!
In-Reply-To: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABYjCQa__o0ZHrY1fgaS=7BWvVJXh96VHKm5V74Bw+oX36F61g@mail.gmail.com>

We will also be asking the city to lead the effort to lead an
inter-governmental coalition to get the TIMES center reopened.
The details are here:
http://www.smilepolitely.com/splog/times_center_must_be_re-opened/

The petition is here:
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/find-a-way-to-reopen-times-center

Please share this with any progressive email lists that you are on!

THANKS!
Sandra Ahten
217-722-9533



Sandra Ahten


<http://kevinelliottcounseling.com/>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Brian Dolinar <briandolinar at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Way to go Urbana! Vote tonight 7pm, “Re-Affirming Urbana As A Sanctuary
> City.”
>
> BD
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-
> sanctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html
>
> --
> Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
> briandolinar.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Announce mailing list
> Announce at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/announce-communitycourtwatch
>
>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 19 16:17:29 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 16:17:29 +0000
Subject: [Peace] It's not over yet
References: <43784767-0230-4325-88CE-7EF5B56A58BA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB034765C2CBB463632D31656FA3910@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

The Sanctuary Ordinance for Urbana, is to be voted on tonight at the City Council Meeting @ 7:00pm.
Please be there to show your support.



Begin forwarded message:


http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-sanctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html


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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Mon Dec 19 16:21:45 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 16:21:45 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Announce] Tonight 7pm - Re-affirming Urbana as
	a	Sanctuary City!
In-Reply-To: <CABYjCQa__o0ZHrY1fgaS=7BWvVJXh96VHKm5V74Bw+oX36F61g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CABYjCQa__o0ZHrY1fgaS=7BWvVJXh96VHKm5V74Bw+oX36F61g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BDFAED7-2722-436D-9705-7A89423754C0@illinois.edu>

Sandra,

Did you see Claudia Lenhoff's rebuttal of your contention that it is not being fully used. She is opposing your effort. Better talk to her before moving ahead.
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Sandra Ahten via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

We will also be asking the city to lead the effort to lead an inter-governmental coalition to get the TIMES center reopened.
The details are here:
http://www.smilepolitely.com/splog/times_center_must_be_re-opened/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smilepolitely.com_splog_times-5Fcenter-5Fmust-5Fbe-5Fre-2Dopened_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=fXdd0d_7Sq5NFwVYiMCXpz-4e-OEnppK-8GkFd7qCIg&e=>

The petition is here:
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/find-a-way-to-reopen-times-center<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__actionnetwork.org_petitions_find-2Da-2Dway-2Dto-2Dreopen-2Dtimes-2Dcenter&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=kdYP7_XgvlKiy0hoKfjtmu2FmbRfTs-NRhHazQ2hLjQ&e=>

Please share this with any progressive email lists that you are on!

THANKS!
Sandra Ahten
217-722-9533



Sandra Ahten


<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__kevinelliottcounseling.com_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=HE9MJsxU518V0O9lq7l3l9ghc87ROzvFGoXTsdYtnJk&e=>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Brian Dolinar <briandolinar at gmail.com<mailto:briandolinar at gmail.com>> wrote:
Way to go Urbana! Vote tonight 7pm, “Re-Affirming Urbana As A Sanctuary City.”

BD

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-sanctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.news-2Dgazette.com_news_local_2016-2D12-2D18_urbana-2Dsanctuary-2Dcity-2Dvote-2Dset-2Dmonday.html&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=3hdQ_PUAX3ux2JF2wCw376MpLo1N5cqWNuCkS-LIyJ8&e=>

--
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__briandolinar.com&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=t4oYp24YaxCBaqMtklv5hL37wZH7uIpOCBWX-DwVtUw&e=>

_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Announce at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/announce-communitycourtwatch<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_announce-2Dcommunitycourtwatch&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=7FXHc03OQF1jwp906yv1Y6dO3dHVbk2iVF10twZkLuQ&e=>


_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From sandra.ahten at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 16:46:06 2016
From: sandra.ahten at gmail.com (Sandra Ahten)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:46:06 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Announce] Tonight 7pm - Re-affirming Urbana as a
 Sanctuary City!
In-Reply-To: <8BDFAED7-2722-436D-9705-7A89423754C0@illinois.edu>
References: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABYjCQa__o0ZHrY1fgaS=7BWvVJXh96VHKm5V74Bw+oX36F61g@mail.gmail.com>
 <8BDFAED7-2722-436D-9705-7A89423754C0@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CABYjCQaSvZX4vL2_Q2FnZNj+j3=umxRp-9DhQHnt+7MSpdEL1g@mail.gmail.com>

*Are you referring to what the News-Gazette reported that Claudia said? If
so, her quotes are in blue below and  the facts (in red):*

"The space is being used, so to look at it as though it's available is
completely wrong," she said.

They are operating a 20 bed "Transitional program" -- They have room for 50
more  and have operated.

Rosecrance owns and operates the TIMES Center and it's not an asset that
governments can take over and return to the community, she said.

True, but they can stop saying that it is closed due to lack of operating
funds, and admit that they just don't want to run a shelter AND that they
want to keep for themselves the building that we as a community paid for to
be a shelter.

Lennhoff also said many men who currently need emergency shelter never
stayed at the TIMES Center level 1 program, and the closing of that program
isn't related to seeing homeless men in downtown Champaign now.

There were a number of homeless men on the street last winter who wouldn't
stay in the TIMES Center or the Stepping Stone shelter because of program
requirements, she said, and that would likely be the same situation this
year even if those programs were open.

Okay there are some men who wouldn't stay at the TIMES center, there are
some people like our old Urbana Bill who preferred to be a loner and set up
his tent. Or there are addicts who won't stay there because they won't
comply with the rules. That, in no way, means that the number of men on the
street isn't in direct correlation between the TIMES shelter closing.
I've spoken with Claudia at length. I respect her opinion, but she is
spinning this to defend Rosecrance.  Which I understand her being
protective of them,  ...they provide a lot of mental health services to the
population she serves, but that doesn't mean that Rosecrance doesn't  need
to be held accountable for shutting down the shelter instead of looking for
solutions to keep it open.

Community Elements/Rosecrance says they lost $250K over 6 years. IF we can
get the governmental bodies to fund the services, Rosecrance should be held
to operating it as a men's emergency shelter.

Sandra Ahten


<http://kevinelliottcounseling.com/>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu>
wrote:

> Sandra,
>
> Did you see Claudia Lenhoff's rebuttal of your contention that it is not
> being fully used. She is opposing your effort. Better talk to her before
> moving ahead.
> Belden
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Sandra Ahten via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> We will also be asking the city to lead the effort to lead an
> inter-governmental coalition to get the TIMES center reopened.
> The details are here:
> http://www.smilepolitely.com/splog/times_center_must_be_re-opened/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smilepolitely.com_splog_times-5Fcenter-5Fmust-5Fbe-5Fre-2Dopened_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=fXdd0d_7Sq5NFwVYiMCXpz-4e-OEnppK-8GkFd7qCIg&e=>
>
> The petition is here:
> https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/find-a-way-to-reopen-times-center
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__actionnetwork.org_petitions_find-2Da-2Dway-2Dto-2Dreopen-2Dtimes-2Dcenter&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=kdYP7_XgvlKiy0hoKfjtmu2FmbRfTs-NRhHazQ2hLjQ&e=>
>
> Please share this with any progressive email lists that you are on!
>
> THANKS!
> Sandra Ahten
> 217-722-9533 <(217)%20722-9533>
>
>
>
> Sandra Ahten
>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__kevinelliottcounseling.com_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=HE9MJsxU518V0O9lq7l3l9ghc87ROzvFGoXTsdYtnJk&e=>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Brian Dolinar <briandolinar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Way to go Urbana! Vote tonight 7pm, “Re-Affirming Urbana As A Sanctuary
>> City.”
>>
>> BD
>>
>> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-san
>> ctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.news-2Dgazette.com_news_local_2016-2D12-2D18_urbana-2Dsanctuary-2Dcity-2Dvote-2Dset-2Dmonday.html&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=3hdQ_PUAX3ux2JF2wCw376MpLo1N5cqWNuCkS-LIyJ8&e=>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
>> briandolinar.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__briandolinar.com&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=t4oYp24YaxCBaqMtklv5hL37wZH7uIpOCBWX-DwVtUw&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Announce mailing list
>> Announce at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/announce-communitycourtwatch
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_announce-2Dcommunitycourtwatch&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=7FXHc03OQF1jwp906yv1Y6dO3dHVbk2iVF10twZkLuQ&e=>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Mon Dec 19 18:26:40 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 18:26:40 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Announce] Tonight 7pm - Re-affirming Urbana as a
 Sanctuary City!
In-Reply-To: <CABYjCQaSvZX4vL2_Q2FnZNj+j3=umxRp-9DhQHnt+7MSpdEL1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADL4Vu7uYJAJt35iQW3SgytDJ58azht3tExVuMtVEE-Anqwbyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABYjCQa__o0ZHrY1fgaS=7BWvVJXh96VHKm5V74Bw+oX36F61g@mail.gmail.com>
 <8BDFAED7-2722-436D-9705-7A89423754C0@illinois.edu>,
 <CABYjCQaSvZX4vL2_Q2FnZNj+j3=umxRp-9DhQHnt+7MSpdEL1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E7CAE9D-FAD6-4F7D-B0A5-5017BF35E48C@illinois.edu>

OK, so long as you have been talking. I won't be at the meeting, It's too cold and I have a cold.
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Sandra Ahten <sandra.ahten at gmail.com<mailto:sandra.ahten at gmail.com>> wrote:


Are you referring to what the News-Gazette reported that Claudia said? If so, her quotes are in blue below and  the facts (in red):

"The space is being used, so to look at it as though it's available is completely wrong," she said.

They are operating a 20 bed "Transitional program" -- They have room for 50 more  and have operated.


Rosecrance owns and operates the TIMES Center and it's not an asset that governments can take over and return to the community, she said.

True, but they can stop saying that it is closed due to lack of operating funds, and admit that they just don't want to run a shelter AND that they want to keep for themselves the building that we as a community paid for to be a shelter.

Lennhoff also said many men who currently need emergency shelter never stayed at the TIMES Center level 1 program, and the closing of that program isn't related to seeing homeless men in downtown Champaign now.

There were a number of homeless men on the street last winter who wouldn't stay in the TIMES Center or the Stepping Stone shelter because of program requirements, she said, and that would likely be the same situation this year even if those programs were open.

Okay there are some men who wouldn't stay at the TIMES center, there are some people like our old Urbana Bill who preferred to be a loner and set up his tent. Or there are addicts who won't stay there because they won't comply with the rules. That, in no way, means that the number of men on the street isn't in direct correlation between the TIMES shelter closing.

I've spoken with Claudia at length. I respect her opinion, but she is spinning this to defend Rosecrance.  Which I understand her being protective of them,  ...they provide a lot of mental health services to the population she serves, but that doesn't mean that Rosecrance doesn't  need to be held accountable for shutting down the shelter instead of looking for solutions to keep it open.

Community Elements/Rosecrance says they lost $250K over 6 years. IF we can get the governmental bodies to fund the services, Rosecrance should be held to operating it as a men's emergency shelter.

Sandra Ahten


<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__kevinelliottcounseling.com_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=NBZl8OgoMuzsV0H-pdhspAxh8ruKNSaip1Jvld4EC84&s=nQYGSEN8G8oHARKIeaJeaeHZdGmxoI92toIZqnYUkGA&e=>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
Sandra,

Did you see Claudia Lenhoff's rebuttal of your contention that it is not being fully used. She is opposing your effort. Better talk to her before moving ahead.
Belden

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:52 AM, Sandra Ahten via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

We will also be asking the city to lead the effort to lead an inter-governmental coalition to get the TIMES center reopened.
The details are here:
http://www.smilepolitely.com/splog/times_center_must_be_re-opened/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.smilepolitely.com_splog_times-5Fcenter-5Fmust-5Fbe-5Fre-2Dopened_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=fXdd0d_7Sq5NFwVYiMCXpz-4e-OEnppK-8GkFd7qCIg&e=>

The petition is here:
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/find-a-way-to-reopen-times-center<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__actionnetwork.org_petitions_find-2Da-2Dway-2Dto-2Dreopen-2Dtimes-2Dcenter&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=kdYP7_XgvlKiy0hoKfjtmu2FmbRfTs-NRhHazQ2hLjQ&e=>

Please share this with any progressive email lists that you are on!

THANKS!
Sandra Ahten
217-722-9533<tel:(217)%20722-9533>



Sandra Ahten


<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__kevinelliottcounseling.com_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=HE9MJsxU518V0O9lq7l3l9ghc87ROzvFGoXTsdYtnJk&e=>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Brian Dolinar <briandolinar at gmail.com<mailto:briandolinar at gmail.com>> wrote:
Way to go Urbana! Vote tonight 7pm, “Re-Affirming Urbana As A Sanctuary City.”

BD

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-12-18/urbana-sanctuary-city-vote-set-monday.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.news-2Dgazette.com_news_local_2016-2D12-2D18_urbana-2Dsanctuary-2Dcity-2Dvote-2Dset-2Dmonday.html&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=3hdQ_PUAX3ux2JF2wCw376MpLo1N5cqWNuCkS-LIyJ8&e=>

--
Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
briandolinar.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__briandolinar.com&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=t4oYp24YaxCBaqMtklv5hL37wZH7uIpOCBWX-DwVtUw&e=>

_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Announce at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/announce-communitycourtwatch<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_announce-2Dcommunitycourtwatch&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LVFD2C1RI2rrPDmI3Syk2CwuxmoT24PnP4L8nmF9sOM&m=FquLrFQo8CFOdLaiBwB_wmW8wz2b3Nq4CCD1GSOCcEc&s=7FXHc03OQF1jwp906yv1Y6dO3dHVbk2iVF10twZkLuQ&e=>


_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=KxSnB3zd6bKuZvymibznyynX7Vqk5PfPR3c0GP65m-s&m=NBZl8OgoMuzsV0H-pdhspAxh8ruKNSaip1Jvld4EC84&s=XzTTk0RtcFJhgNUlfmaMlqLL3acRdo1sxEe0OKlYnEw&e=>

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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 20 03:21:19 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 03:21:19 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance passed.
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

It passed, with only one in dissent. The House was packed again, with over 200 people in attendance. 

Thank you to Professor Frances Boyle, Brian Dolinar, Geovanny Vega and all those who made it happen. 

From brussel at illinois.edu  Tue Dec 20 17:17:30 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:17:30 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance passed.
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A8BC13F5-2A42-4C7C-BB23-4FD0F50CD5EC@illinois.edu>

The humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed. If one advocates open borders, then there wouldn’t be an immigration problem. But if one wants to control immigration, i.e., laws to enforce it, then those laws will be enforced, and one will have people subject to deportation if they violate the laws. I see no way to get around that. 
As for those already here, illegally, you can invoke amnesty, or courts to consider each case—a virtual unfeasibility— but then you have the future to contend with. 

—mkb

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> It passed, with only one in dissent. The House was packed again, with over 200 people in attendance. 
> 
> Thank you to Professor Frances Boyle, Brian Dolinar, Geovanny Vega and all those who made it happen. 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From galliher at illinois.edu  Tue Dec 20 17:43:10 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:43:10 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance passed.
In-Reply-To: <A8BC13F5-2A42-4C7C-BB23-4FD0F50CD5EC@illinois.edu>
References: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <A8BC13F5-2A42-4C7C-BB23-4FD0F50CD5EC@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <75D71693-83DA-45E6-AC20-F0252CA62476@illinois.edu>

I think Mort is quite right - “the humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed."

You don’t have to be too cynical to see it as another identity-politics twisting of liberal concern into a support for neoliberal capitalism, of the sort that the Democrats have been peddling.

'Because who’s for illegal immigration? … as far as I know the only people who are openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.

'First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a welfare state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open the borders, because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s a good paper you can get off the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs Foreign Affairs, and the argument is that illegal immigration is better than legal immigration, because illegal immigration is extremely responsive to market conditions.

'So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of ne plus ultra of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why for years — even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy it’s worked well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk against illegal immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama administration would do the same thing…’ [Walter Benn Michaels, Jacobin, January 2011]  

Why don’t we turn our energies to getting our Congressional representatives to 

(1) pass a reasonable amnesty plan; and 

(2) revoke neoliberal trade pacts like NAFTA that promote illegal immigration from countries ravaged by the Democrats’ neoliberalism.

—CGE

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 11:17 AM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> The humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed. If one advocates open borders, then there wouldn’t be an immigration problem. But if one wants to control immigration, i.e., laws to enforce it, then those laws will be enforced, and one will have people subject to deportation if they violate the laws. I see no way to get around that. 
> As for those already here, illegally, you can invoke amnesty, or courts to consider each case—a virtual unfeasibility— but then you have the future to contend with. 
> 
> —mkb
> 
>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> It passed, with only one in dissent. The House was packed again, with over 200 people in attendance. 
>> 
>> Thank you to Professor Frances Boyle, Brian Dolinar, Geovanny Vega and all those who made it happen. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss


From davegreen84 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 20 17:53:43 2016
From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com (David Green)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:53:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance passed.
In-Reply-To: <75D71693-83DA-45E6-AC20-F0252CA62476@illinois.edu>
References: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <A8BC13F5-2A42-4C7C-BB23-4FD0F50CD5EC@illinois.edu>
 <75D71693-83DA-45E6-AC20-F0252CA62476@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <1140773257.703469.1482256423223@mail.yahoo.com>

At the very least, it's important to understand that sanctuary proclamations avoid any serious analysis--economic or legal--of either neoliberalism or its Trumpian response; I fear that that is by design.
DG 

    On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:43 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
 
 

 I think Mort is quite right - “the humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed."

You don’t have to be too cynical to see it as another identity-politics twisting of liberal concern into a support for neoliberal capitalism, of the sort that the Democrats have been peddling.

'Because who’s for illegal immigration? … as far as I know the only people who are openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.

'First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a welfare state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open the borders, because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s a good paper you can get off the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs Foreign Affairs, and the argument is that illegal immigration is better than legal immigration, because illegal immigration is extremely responsive to market conditions.

'So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of ne plus ultra of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why for years — even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy it’s worked well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk against illegal immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama administration would do the same thing…’ [Walter Benn Michaels, Jacobin, January 2011]  

Why don’t we turn our energies to getting our Congressional representatives to 

(1) pass a reasonable amnesty plan; and 

(2) revoke neoliberal trade pacts like NAFTA that promote illegal immigration from countries ravaged by the Democrats’ neoliberalism.

—CGE

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 11:17 AM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> The humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed. If one advocates open borders, then there wouldn’t be an immigration problem. But if one wants to control immigration, i.e., laws to enforce it, then those laws will be enforced, and one will have people subject to deportation if they violate the laws. I see no way to get around that. 
> As for those already here, illegally, you can invoke amnesty, or courts to consider each case—a virtual unfeasibility— but then you have the future to contend with. 
> 
> —mkb
> 
>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> It passed, with only one in dissent. The House was packed again, with over 200 people in attendance. 
>> 
>> Thank you to Professor Frances Boyle, Brian Dolinar, Geovanny Vega and all those who made it happen. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Tue Dec 20 19:49:13 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:49:13 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance passed.
In-Reply-To: <1140773257.703469.1482256423223@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB03475E538DD52FCCBDCD5F60A3900@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <A8BC13F5-2A42-4C7C-BB23-4FD0F50CD5EC@illinois.edu>
 <75D71693-83DA-45E6-AC20-F0252CA62476@illinois.edu>
 <1140773257.703469.1482256423223@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19936868-7DA3-437E-98ED-66584047894D@illinois.edu>

I think that’s right. People want to do something helpful in the face of social evils, and making a statement of support of people who might be deported - especially while Obama is president, who has deported more people than any other recent president - may be helpful. 

More helpful would be a serious left politics, of which the local Democrats, say, produce just a parody - and not, I think an innocent one.

“The defensible heart of identity politics is its commitment to opposing forms of discrimination like racism, sexism, and homophobia. I share that commitment. But opposing discrimination today has no more to do with a left politics than do equally powerful ethical commitments against, say, violence or dishonesty. Why? Because the core of a left politics is its critique of and resistance to capitalism—its commitment to decommodifying education, health care, and housing, and creating a more economically equal society. Neither hostility to discrimination nor the accompanying enthusiasm for diversity makes the slightest contribution to accomplishing any of those goals. Just the opposite, in fact. They function instead to provide inequality with a meritocratic justification: If everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed, there’s no injustice when some people fail…” 

[Walter Benn Michaels: full article at <https://www.thenation.com/article/what-is-the-left-without-identity-politics/ <https://www.thenation.com/article/what-is-the-left-without-identity-politics/>>]

—CGE

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 11:53 AM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> At the very least, it's important to understand that sanctuary proclamations avoid any serious analysis--economic or legal--of either neoliberalism or its Trumpian response; I fear that that is by design.
> 
> DG
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:43 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> I think Mort is quite right - “the humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed."
> 
> You don’t have to be too cynical to see it as another identity-politics twisting of liberal concern into a support for neoliberal capitalism, of the sort that the Democrats have been peddling.
> 
> 'Because who’s for illegal immigration? … as far as I know the only people who are openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.
> 
> 'First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a welfare state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open the borders, because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s a good paper you can get off the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs Foreign Affairs, and the argument is that illegal immigration is better than legal immigration, because illegal immigration is extremely responsive to market conditions.
> 
> 'So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of ne plus ultra of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why for years — even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy it’s worked well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk against illegal immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama administration would do the same thing…’ [Walter Benn Michaels, Jacobin, January 2011]  
> 
> Why don’t we turn our energies to getting our Congressional representatives to 
> 
> (1) pass a reasonable amnesty plan; and 
> 
> (2) revoke neoliberal trade pacts like NAFTA that promote illegal immigration from countries ravaged by the Democrats’ neoliberalism.
> 
> —CGE
> 
> > On Dec 20, 2016, at 11:17 AM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> > 
> > The humanitarian impulse seems admirable, but the reasoning seems nonexistent, flawed. If one advocates open borders, then there wouldn’t be an immigration problem. But if one wants to control immigration, i.e., laws to enforce it, then those laws will be enforced, and one will have people subject to deportation if they violate the laws. I see no way to get around that. 
> > As for those already here, illegally, you can invoke amnesty, or courts to consider each case—a virtual unfeasibility— but then you have the future to contend with. 
> > 
> > —mkb
> > 
> >> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> >> 
> >> It passed, with only one in dissent. The House was packed again, with over 200 people in attendance. 
> >> 
> >> Thank you to Professor Frances Boyle, Brian Dolinar, Geovanny Vega and all those who made it happen. 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Peace mailing list
> >> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
> >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=2-tSWD5C5tMhwSiPWOsG6rI6N2faUEzxTQRmJW3-zvo&s=i1GP2Cyu4o6sbGG4jdxlhXLT-Oie9ieOwk8tcrLoNMc&e=>
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peace-discuss mailing list
> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace-2Ddiscuss&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=2-tSWD5C5tMhwSiPWOsG6rI6N2faUEzxTQRmJW3-zvo&s=-awnzebxBF1s2cJB4BWkFWYrMqV5HaRR8YXZcZOXuzU&e=>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace-2Ddiscuss&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=2-tSWD5C5tMhwSiPWOsG6rI6N2faUEzxTQRmJW3-zvo&s=-awnzebxBF1s2cJB4BWkFWYrMqV5HaRR8YXZcZOXuzU&e=>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Tue Dec 20 21:09:25 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 15:09:25 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Glenn Greenwald: The Smear Campaign Against Keith
	Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNQHUBPNtHY=AL5Y47RpSMnwKQ3tJchd_bhZEh_fMeX85g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQHUBPNtHY=AL5Y47RpSMnwKQ3tJchd_bhZEh_fMeX85g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8350E635-B557-4933-AC8F-7269DF1FA400@illinois.edu>

Rep. Keith Ellison: Useless to the Cause of Peace

Earlier this year, the Obama administration reneged on its agreement with Russia to draw up a list of the jihadist groups Washington supports, and to make sure they don’t fight alongside al-Qaida. Gabbard’s law would require that the Director of National Intelligence draw up a list of the jihadi groups that are cooperating with al-Qaida and ISIS, and update that list every six month, to make sure none of them get U.S. assistance.

Gabbard models her bill on 1980s Boland Amendment that halted U.S. aid to the U.S. Contra terrorists, in Nicaragua. She was joined by two Republican and two Democratic co-sponsors, including Black California congresswoman Barbara Lee. The bill is endorsed by the Progressive Democrats of America and the U.S. Peace Council. But don’t expect it to get effective support from the Progressive Caucus in the U.S. Congress. Minnesota Black congressman Keith Ellison is Caucus co-chair – and absolutely worthless to the cause of peace. He supported the war against Libya and the proxy war in Syria, which is why he stands a good chance of becoming head of the Democratic National Committee, where it’s all war, and anti-Russia, all the time.

For Black Agenda Radio, I’m Glen Ford. On the web, go to BlackAgendaReport.com.

See also <http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/rep-keith-ellison-personification-phony-pro-war-%E2%80%9Cprogressive%E2%80%9D>.

—CGE


> On Dec 5, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/
> 
> The Smear Campaign Against Keith Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
> Glenn Greenwald
> The Intercept
> December 4 2016, 7:48 a.m.
> 
> EVER SINCE HE announced his candidacy to lead the Democratic National Committee, Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, has been the target of a defamation campaign that is deceitful, repugnant, and yet quite predictable. At first expressed in whispers, but now being yelled from the rooftops by some of the party’s most influential figures, Ellison is being smeared as both an anti-Semite and enemy of Israel — the same smears virtually any critic of the Israeli government reflexively encounters, rendered far worse if the critic is a prominent American Muslim.
> 
> Three days ago, the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League pronounced Ellison’s 2010 comments about Israel “deeply disturbing and disqualifying.” Other Israel advocates have now joined in. What are Ellison’s terrible sins? He said in a 2010 speech that while he “wanted the U.S. to be friends with Israel,” the U.S. “can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM.”
> 
> As the full speech makes clear, he was referring to the indisputable fact that while Israel continues to take billions of dollars every year from the U.S. — far more than any other country receives in aid — it continually disregards and violates U.S. requests to stop ongoing expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, often in ways seemingly designed to impose the greatest humiliation on its benefactor:
> 
> 
> Stop, you know why are we sending a mill — $2.8 billion dollars a year over there when they won’t even honor our request to stop building in East Jerusalem? Where is the future Palestinian state going to be if it’s colonized before it even gets up off the ground? …
> 
> … Now you got Clinton, Biden, and the president who’s told them — stop. Now this has happened before. They beat back a president before. Bush 41 said — stop, and they said — we don’t want to stop, and by the way we want our money and we want it now. [Ellison laughs.] Right? You know, I mean we can’t allow, we’re Americans, right? We can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM. Right? And so we ought to stand up as Americans.
> 
> Equally sinful in the eyes of the ADL was this statement on U.S. foreign policy:
> 
> The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? [A male says “no.”] Is that logic? Right? When the people who, when the Americans who trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved, everything changes.
> 
> As J.J. Goldberg of The Forward noted, Ellison wasn’t lamenting the insidious influence of U.S. Jews — as the ADL shamefully claimed — but rather was “plainly describing how American Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if they learned to organize.”
> 
> And agree or disagree with those positions, it is an indisputable fact that Israel receives far more in U.S. aid than any other country yet continually does exactly that which numerous U.S. presidents have insisted it not do, often to the detriment of U.S. interests. And many prominent foreign policy experts — including David Petraeus — have warned that excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism. The idea that a member of Congress is not permitted to debate these policies without being branded an anti-Semite is sheer insanity: malicious insanity at that.
> 
> But that insanity is par for the course in Washington, where anyone who even questions U.S. policy toward Israel is smeared in this way — from James Baker to Howard Dean to Bernie Sanders and even Donald Trump. So pernicious is this framework that the U.S. Senate just passed legislation expressly equating what it regards as unfair criticism of the Israeli government with “anti-Semitism.” And when one is an American Muslim, ugly stereotypes and pervasive Islamophobia are added to this toxic brew to make the smears worse by many magnitudes. 
> 
> THIS SMEAR CAMPAIGN against Ellison received a major boost Friday night when the single largest funder of both the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban, said at the Brookings Institution, a part of which he funds: “If you go back to his positions, his papers, his speeches, the way he has voted, he is clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual.” Saban added: “Keith Ellison would be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the Democratic Party.”
> 
> That Saban plays such a vital role in Democratic Party politics says a great deal. To the New York Times, this is how he described himself: “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” In late 2015, Ali Gharib wrote in The Forward: “Saban’s top priority isn’t a liberal vision of American life. It’s Israel.” When Hillary Clinton in 2015 condemned the boycott movementaimed at ending Israeli settlements, she did it in the form of a letter addressed personally to Saban.
> 
> The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with Ellison.
> 
> To get a sense for just how prohibited the most benign and basic debates are when it comes to Israel, consider the quotes from Ellison’s college days dug up by CNN as supposedly incriminating. In 1990, while a law student at the University of Minnesota, Ellison blasted the university president for condemning a speaking event featuring the anti-Zionist civil rights icon Kwame Ture (also known as Stokely Carmichael); Ellison’s argument was that all ideas, including Zionism, should be regarded as debatable in a college environment:
> 
> The University’s position appears to be this: Political Zionism is off-limits no matter what dubious circumstances Israel was founded under; no matter what the Zionists do to the Palestinians; and no matter what wicked regimes Israel allies itself with — like South Africa. This position is untenable.
> 
> In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be debated is something other than Israel.
> 
> Leave aside the bizarre attempt to use someone’s college-aged political activism against them three decades later. As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements — including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam — were grounded in righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.” Writing about the smear campaign circulating on the internet against Ellison, The Forward’s Goldberg said he found “the evidence to be either frivolous, distorted or simply false.”
> 
> As CNN itself acknowledged when digging up these old Ellison quotes: “None of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself.” How is that, by itself, not the end of the controversy?
> 
>  
> THE REASON WHY it isn’t is a glaring irony. With the advent of Donald Trump and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country, Democrats this year incorporated anti-Islamophobia rhetoric into their repertoire. Yet what is being done to Ellison by the ADL, Saban, and others is Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.
> 
> Faiz Shakir is a senior adviser to Harry Reid who previously worked for Nancy Pelosi and the ThinkProgress blog at the Center for American Progress. He explains, from personal experience, that the vile treatment to which Ellison is now being subjected is common for American Muslims in political life:
> 
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
> 12:31 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>  
> 	•  192192 Retweets
>  
> 	•  357357 likes
> 
> 
> 3 Dec
> Faiz @fshakir
> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
> 12:32 PM - 3 Dec 2016
> Nancy Pelosi Hires Former Terrorist Fundraiser
> What Faiz Shakir's powerful new post says about Democratic Party anti-Semitism.
> frontpagemag.com
>  
> 	•  5151 Retweets
>  
> 	•  6363 likes
> 
> 
> 3 Dec
> Faiz @fshakir
> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>  
> 	•  1717 Retweets
>  
> 	•  3333 likes
> 
> 
> 3 Dec
> Faiz @fshakir
> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>  
> 	•  1313 Retweets
>  
> 	•  1616 likes
> 
> 
> 3 Dec
> Faiz @fshakir
> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>  
> 	•  1212 Retweets
>  
> 	•  1717 likes
> 
> 
> 3 Dec
> Faiz @fshakir
> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
>  Follow
> Faiz @fshakir
> Now it's Ellison's turn. At some point, this has to stop. So glad @SenSchumer, @rweingarten, others are not backing down to pressure.
> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>  
> 	•  2727 Retweets
>  
> 	•  5151 likes
> 
> 
> In that last tweet, Shakir is referring to the fact that, to their credit, other Democratic voices — such as American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten, J Street, and, most important, Chuck Schumer — continue to defend Ellison. J Street’s statement made the critical point: “It is time to retire the playbook that aims to silence any American official seeking high office who has dared to criticize certain Israeli government policies.”
> 
> But even these commendable defenses of Ellison illustrate how constricted the permissible range of views on Israel is within the Democratic Party. J Street vouched for Ellison by saying that he “is and has long been a friend of Israel” and is “a champion of pro-Israel, pro-peace policies.” Schumer went further, saying that while he disagrees with Ellison on numerous issues, “I saw him orchestrate one of the most pro-Israel platforms in decades.” Notably, demonstrating steadfast support for the polices of the Israeli government is literally a job requirement to lead the Democratic National Committee — and for every other significant position in Washington.
> 
> But Ellison has actually fulfilled that requirement. Even his opponents admit: “Ellison unambiguously self-identifies as pro-Israel, supports a two-state solution without reservation, has repeatedly said that Israel has a right to defend itself and expressed the importance of protecting and maintaining Israel’s security, and there is no evidence that he has ever supported or advocated for BDS.” It’s true that, as Jay Michaelson wrote in an excellent Daily Beast column, Ellison “has been critical of Israeli settlements, of right-wing Israeli governments, and of America’s unconditional support for Israel.” But even his Israel advocacy is rather banal, as Goldberg wrote:
> 
> It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to promote peace and security.
> 
> In other words, Ellison is a mainstream liberal Democrat, albeit situated on the left wing of the party as it is currently constituted in Congress (which is not very far to the left given that Nancy Pelosi resides in a nearby ideological precinct).
> 
> What makes him such an easy and vulnerable target for smear campaigns such as the one Saban and the ADL are pursuing is that he is Muslim — a black Muslim to boot. Just look at the obvious codes in this paragraph from Michael J. Koplow, the policy director of the Israel Policy Forum, writing in Haaretz under the headline “Keith Ellison Has a Real Israel Problem”:
> 
> Ellison is not a figure whom anyone would normally expect to be a supporter of Israel. He is an African-American Muslim who did not grow up in a particularly Jewish area of the country, came of age after 1967, when Israel’s image as a David began shifting to that of a Goliath, did not have any prominent Jewish mentors, and has a background in radical politics. As a student, he was harshly critical of Zionism and its legitimacy.
> 
> While Koplow cites these facts not to endorse the stereotypes but to affirm Ellison’s bona fides as someone one would not expect to be an Israel supporter, those are the demographic attributes giving the fuel to this revolting campaign. As Michaelson, who previously worked with the ADL, acknowledged: “There’s plenty of Islamophobia within my Jewish community as well,” and “the ADL is a perfect example,” citing the group’s shameful opposition to the construction of a mosque in lower Manhattan.
> 
> If you’re a Democrat, it’s easy to embrace the language of anti-Islamophobia when it comes to condemning Donald Trump and other Republicans. It’s more difficult, but more important, to do so when that poison is coming from within the Democratic Party itself.
> 
> One of the few silver linings of the ugly Trump rhetoric on Muslims can and should be (and has been) a unified rejection of this sort of toxicity, regardless of where it comes from. Democrats who are sincere about wanting to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry can do so by defending Keith Ellison from these incredibly ugly, baseless, and defamatory attacks.
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Wed Dec 21 09:28:24 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 03:28:24 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Glenn Greenwald: The Smear Campaign Against Keith
	Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
In-Reply-To: <8350E635-B557-4933-AC8F-7269DF1FA400@illinois.edu>
References: <CALMNhNQHUBPNtHY=AL5Y47RpSMnwKQ3tJchd_bhZEh_fMeX85g@mail.gmail.com>
 <8350E635-B557-4933-AC8F-7269DF1FA400@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <3781C35A-DC79-4DB5-A66A-15739B840FBA@gmail.com>

Carl,
You are not and have never been a Democrat (this is not a judgmental statement, merely a statement of fact), so your opinion on this internal Party issue is quite frankly irrelevant. Curious that someone involved in an organization with "Anti-Racism" in its name is neither offended by nor speaking out against the racist nature of the attacks on Keith Ellison. 
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2016, at 3:09 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Rep. Keith Ellison: Useless to the Cause of Peace
> 
> Earlier this year, the Obama administration reneged on its agreement with Russia to draw up a list of the jihadist groups Washington supports, and to make sure they don’t fight alongside al-Qaida. Gabbard’s law would require that the Director of National Intelligence draw up a list of the jihadi groups that are cooperating with al-Qaida and ISIS, and update that list every six month, to make sure none of them get U.S. assistance.
> 
> Gabbard models her bill on 1980s Boland Amendment that halted U.S. aid to the U.S. Contra terrorists, in Nicaragua. She was joined by two Republican and two Democratic co-sponsors, including Black California congresswoman Barbara Lee. The bill is endorsed by the Progressive Democrats of America and the U.S. Peace Council. But don’t expect it to get effective support from the Progressive Caucus in the U.S. Congress. Minnesota Black congressman Keith Ellison is Caucus co-chair – and absolutely worthless to the cause of peace. He supported the war against Libya and the proxy war in Syria, which is why he stands a good chance of becoming head of the Democratic National Committee, where it’s all war, and anti-Russia, all the time.
> 
> For Black Agenda Radio, I’m Glen Ford. On the web, go to BlackAgendaReport.com.
> 
> See also <http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/rep-keith-ellison-personification-phony-pro-war-%E2%80%9Cprogressive%E2%80%9D>.
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 5, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/
>> 
>> The Smear Campaign Against Keith Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
>> Glenn Greenwald
>> The Intercept
>> December 4 2016, 7:48 a.m.
>> 
>> EVER SINCE HE announced his candidacy to lead the Democratic National Committee, Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, has been the target of a defamation campaign that is deceitful, repugnant, and yet quite predictable. At first expressed in whispers, but now being yelled from the rooftops by some of the party’s most influential figures, Ellison is being smeared as both an anti-Semite and enemy of Israel — the same smears virtually any critic of the Israeli government reflexively encounters, rendered far worse if the critic is a prominent American Muslim.
>> 
>> Three days ago, the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League pronounced Ellison’s 2010 comments about Israel “deeply disturbing and disqualifying.” Other Israel advocates have now joined in. What are Ellison’s terrible sins? He said in a 2010 speech that while he “wanted the U.S. to be friends with Israel,” the U.S. “can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM.”
>> 
>> As the full speech makes clear, he was referring to the indisputable fact that while Israel continues to take billions of dollars every year from the U.S. — far more than any other country receives in aid — it continually disregards and violates U.S. requests to stop ongoing expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, often in ways seemingly designed to impose the greatest humiliation on its benefactor:
>> 
>> 
>> Stop, you know why are we sending a mill — $2.8 billion dollars a year over there when they won’t even honor our request to stop building in East Jerusalem? Where is the future Palestinian state going to be if it’s colonized before it even gets up off the ground? …
>> 
>> … Now you got Clinton, Biden, and the president who’s told them — stop. Now this has happened before. They beat back a president before. Bush 41 said — stop, and they said — we don’t want to stop, and by the way we want our money and we want it now. [Ellison laughs.] Right? You know, I mean we can’t allow, we’re Americans, right? We can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM. Right? And so we ought to stand up as Americans.
>> 
>> Equally sinful in the eyes of the ADL was this statement on U.S. foreign policy:
>> 
>> The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? [A male says “no.”] Is that logic? Right? When the people who, when the Americans who trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved, everything changes.
>> 
>> As J.J. Goldberg of The Forward noted, Ellison wasn’t lamenting the insidious influence of U.S. Jews — as the ADL shamefully claimed — but rather was “plainly describing how American Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if they learned to organize.”
>> 
>> And agree or disagree with those positions, it is an indisputable fact that Israel receives far more in U.S. aid than any other country yet continually does exactly that which numerous U.S. presidents have insisted it not do, often to the detriment of U.S. interests. And many prominent foreign policy experts — including David Petraeus — have warned that excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism. The idea that a member of Congress is not permitted to debate these policies without being branded an anti-Semite is sheer insanity: malicious insanity at that.
>> 
>> But that insanity is par for the course in Washington, where anyone who even questions U.S. policy toward Israel is smeared in this way — from James Baker to Howard Dean to Bernie Sanders and even Donald Trump. So pernicious is this framework that the U.S. Senate just passed legislation expressly equating what it regards as unfair criticism of the Israeli government with “anti-Semitism.” And when one is an American Muslim, ugly stereotypes and pervasive Islamophobia are added to this toxic brew to make the smears worse by many magnitudes. 
>> 
>> THIS SMEAR CAMPAIGN against Ellison received a major boost Friday night when the single largest funder of both the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban, said at the Brookings Institution, a part of which he funds: “If you go back to his positions, his papers, his speeches, the way he has voted, he is clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual.” Saban added: “Keith Ellison would be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the Democratic Party.”
>> 
>> That Saban plays such a vital role in Democratic Party politics says a great deal. To the New York Times, this is how he described himself: “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” In late 2015, Ali Gharib wrote in The Forward: “Saban’s top priority isn’t a liberal vision of American life. It’s Israel.” When Hillary Clinton in 2015 condemned the boycott movementaimed at ending Israeli settlements, she did it in the form of a letter addressed personally to Saban.
>> 
>> The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with Ellison.
>> 
>> To get a sense for just how prohibited the most benign and basic debates are when it comes to Israel, consider the quotes from Ellison’s college days dug up by CNN as supposedly incriminating. In 1990, while a law student at the University of Minnesota, Ellison blasted the university president for condemning a speaking event featuring the anti-Zionist civil rights icon Kwame Ture (also known as Stokely Carmichael); Ellison’s argument was that all ideas, including Zionism, should be regarded as debatable in a college environment:
>> 
>> The University’s position appears to be this: Political Zionism is off-limits no matter what dubious circumstances Israel was founded under; no matter what the Zionists do to the Palestinians; and no matter what wicked regimes Israel allies itself with — like South Africa. This position is untenable.
>> 
>> In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be debated is something other than Israel.
>> 
>> Leave aside the bizarre attempt to use someone’s college-aged political activism against them three decades later. As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements — including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam — were grounded in righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.” Writing about the smear campaign circulating on the internet against Ellison, The Forward’s Goldberg said he found “the evidence to be either frivolous, distorted or simply false.”
>> 
>> As CNN itself acknowledged when digging up these old Ellison quotes: “None of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself.” How is that, by itself, not the end of the controversy?
>> 
>> 
>> THE REASON WHY it isn’t is a glaring irony. With the advent of Donald Trump and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country, Democrats this year incorporated anti-Islamophobia rhetoric into their repertoire. Yet what is being done to Ellison by the ADL, Saban, and others is Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.
>> 
>> Faiz Shakir is a senior adviser to Harry Reid who previously worked for Nancy Pelosi and the ThinkProgress blog at the Center for American Progress. He explains, from personal experience, that the vile treatment to which Ellison is now being subjected is common for American Muslims in political life:
>> 
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
>> 12:31 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> 
>>    •  192192 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  357357 likes
>> 
>> 
>> 3 Dec
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
>> 12:32 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> Nancy Pelosi Hires Former Terrorist Fundraiser
>> What Faiz Shakir's powerful new post says about Democratic Party anti-Semitism.
>> frontpagemag.com
>> 
>>    •  5151 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  6363 likes
>> 
>> 
>> 3 Dec
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
>> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> 
>>    •  1717 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  3333 likes
>> 
>> 
>> 3 Dec
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
>> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> 
>>    •  1313 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  1616 likes
>> 
>> 
>> 3 Dec
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
>> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> 
>>    •  1212 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  1717 likes
>> 
>> 
>> 3 Dec
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
>> Follow
>> Faiz @fshakir
>> Now it's Ellison's turn. At some point, this has to stop. So glad @SenSchumer, @rweingarten, others are not backing down to pressure.
>> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>> 
>>    •  2727 Retweets
>> 
>>    •  5151 likes
>> 
>> 
>> In that last tweet, Shakir is referring to the fact that, to their credit, other Democratic voices — such as American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten, J Street, and, most important, Chuck Schumer — continue to defend Ellison. J Street’s statement made the critical point: “It is time to retire the playbook that aims to silence any American official seeking high office who has dared to criticize certain Israeli government policies.”
>> 
>> But even these commendable defenses of Ellison illustrate how constricted the permissible range of views on Israel is within the Democratic Party. J Street vouched for Ellison by saying that he “is and has long been a friend of Israel” and is “a champion of pro-Israel, pro-peace policies.” Schumer went further, saying that while he disagrees with Ellison on numerous issues, “I saw him orchestrate one of the most pro-Israel platforms in decades.” Notably, demonstrating steadfast support for the polices of the Israeli government is literally a job requirement to lead the Democratic National Committee — and for every other significant position in Washington.
>> 
>> But Ellison has actually fulfilled that requirement. Even his opponents admit: “Ellison unambiguously self-identifies as pro-Israel, supports a two-state solution without reservation, has repeatedly said that Israel has a right to defend itself and expressed the importance of protecting and maintaining Israel’s security, and there is no evidence that he has ever supported or advocated for BDS.” It’s true that, as Jay Michaelson wrote in an excellent Daily Beast column, Ellison “has been critical of Israeli settlements, of right-wing Israeli governments, and of America’s unconditional support for Israel.” But even his Israel advocacy is rather banal, as Goldberg wrote:
>> 
>> It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to promote peace and security.
>> 
>> In other words, Ellison is a mainstream liberal Democrat, albeit situated on the left wing of the party as it is currently constituted in Congress (which is not very far to the left given that Nancy Pelosi resides in a nearby ideological precinct).
>> 
>> What makes him such an easy and vulnerable target for smear campaigns such as the one Saban and the ADL are pursuing is that he is Muslim — a black Muslim to boot. Just look at the obvious codes in this paragraph from Michael J. Koplow, the policy director of the Israel Policy Forum, writing in Haaretz under the headline “Keith Ellison Has a Real Israel Problem”:
>> 
>> Ellison is not a figure whom anyone would normally expect to be a supporter of Israel. He is an African-American Muslim who did not grow up in a particularly Jewish area of the country, came of age after 1967, when Israel’s image as a David began shifting to that of a Goliath, did not have any prominent Jewish mentors, and has a background in radical politics. As a student, he was harshly critical of Zionism and its legitimacy.
>> 
>> While Koplow cites these facts not to endorse the stereotypes but to affirm Ellison’s bona fides as someone one would not expect to be an Israel supporter, those are the demographic attributes giving the fuel to this revolting campaign. As Michaelson, who previously worked with the ADL, acknowledged: “There’s plenty of Islamophobia within my Jewish community as well,” and “the ADL is a perfect example,” citing the group’s shameful opposition to the construction of a mosque in lower Manhattan.
>> 
>> If you’re a Democrat, it’s easy to embrace the language of anti-Islamophobia when it comes to condemning Donald Trump and other Republicans. It’s more difficult, but more important, to do so when that poison is coming from within the Democratic Party itself.
>> 
>> One of the few silver linings of the ugly Trump rhetoric on Muslims can and should be (and has been) a unified rejection of this sort of toxicity, regardless of where it comes from. Democrats who are sincere about wanting to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry can do so by defending Keith Ellison from these incredibly ugly, baseless, and defamatory attacks.
>> 
>> ===
>> 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

From galliher at illinois.edu  Wed Dec 21 13:39:47 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 07:39:47 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Glenn Greenwald: The Smear Campaign Against Keith
	Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
In-Reply-To: <3781C35A-DC79-4DB5-A66A-15739B840FBA@gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQHUBPNtHY=AL5Y47RpSMnwKQ3tJchd_bhZEh_fMeX85g@mail.gmail.com>
 <8350E635-B557-4933-AC8F-7269DF1FA400@illinois.edu>
 <3781C35A-DC79-4DB5-A66A-15739B840FBA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26F5AD61-2A3F-45B6-B8E3-AE0417E8DA5D@illinois.edu>

Debra—

Not having ever been a Democrat (whatever that means) will probably be one the few things to count in my favor before the Most High. 

But I am interested in what that international criminal conspiracy is up to.

Hasn't the hoary IP charge of ‘racism’ against critics of those crimes worn itself out from over-use in regard to Obama?

As Glen Ford points out, the objection to Ellison is not that he’s black or Muslim but that he’s a “personification of the phony, pro-war ‘Progressive.’”

Regards, Carl





> On Dec 21, 2016, at 3:28 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Carl,
> You are not and have never been a Democrat (this is not a judgmental statement, merely a statement of fact), so your opinion on this internal Party issue is quite frankly irrelevant. Curious that someone involved in an organization with "Anti-Racism" in its name is neither offended by nor speaking out against the racist nature of the attacks on Keith Ellison. 
> Deb
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 20, 2016, at 3:09 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Rep. Keith Ellison: Useless to the Cause of Peace
>> 
>> Earlier this year, the Obama administration reneged on its agreement with Russia to draw up a list of the jihadist groups Washington supports, and to make sure they don’t fight alongside al-Qaida. Gabbard’s law would require that the Director of National Intelligence draw up a list of the jihadi groups that are cooperating with al-Qaida and ISIS, and update that list every six month, to make sure none of them get U.S. assistance.
>> 
>> Gabbard models her bill on 1980s Boland Amendment that halted U.S. aid to the U.S. Contra terrorists, in Nicaragua. She was joined by two Republican and two Democratic co-sponsors, including Black California congresswoman Barbara Lee. The bill is endorsed by the Progressive Democrats of America and the U.S. Peace Council. But don’t expect it to get effective support from the Progressive Caucus in the U.S. Congress. Minnesota Black congressman Keith Ellison is Caucus co-chair – and absolutely worthless to the cause of peace. He supported the war against Libya and the proxy war in Syria, which is why he stands a good chance of becoming head of the Democratic National Committee, where it’s all war, and anti-Russia, all the time.
>> 
>> For Black Agenda Radio, I’m Glen Ford. On the web, go to BlackAgendaReport.com.
>> 
>> See also <http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/rep-keith-ellison-personification-phony-pro-war-%E2%80%9Cprogressive%E2%80%9D>.
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 5, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://theintercept.com/2016/12/04/the-smear-campaign-against-keith-ellison-is-repugnant-but-reveals-much-about-washington/
>>> 
>>> The Smear Campaign Against Keith Ellison Is Repugnant but Reveals Much About Washington
>>> Glenn Greenwald
>>> The Intercept
>>> December 4 2016, 7:48 a.m.
>>> 
>>> EVER SINCE HE announced his candidacy to lead the Democratic National Committee, Keith Ellison, the first American Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, has been the target of a defamation campaign that is deceitful, repugnant, and yet quite predictable. At first expressed in whispers, but now being yelled from the rooftops by some of the party’s most influential figures, Ellison is being smeared as both an anti-Semite and enemy of Israel — the same smears virtually any critic of the Israeli government reflexively encounters, rendered far worse if the critic is a prominent American Muslim.
>>> 
>>> Three days ago, the now ironically named Anti-Defamation League pronounced Ellison’s 2010 comments about Israel “deeply disturbing and disqualifying.” Other Israel advocates have now joined in. What are Ellison’s terrible sins? He said in a 2010 speech that while he “wanted the U.S. to be friends with Israel,” the U.S. “can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM.”
>>> 
>>> As the full speech makes clear, he was referring to the indisputable fact that while Israel continues to take billions of dollars every year from the U.S. — far more than any other country receives in aid — it continually disregards and violates U.S. requests to stop ongoing expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, often in ways seemingly designed to impose the greatest humiliation on its benefactor:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stop, you know why are we sending a mill — $2.8 billion dollars a year over there when they won’t even honor our request to stop building in East Jerusalem? Where is the future Palestinian state going to be if it’s colonized before it even gets up off the ground? …
>>> 
>>> … Now you got Clinton, Biden, and the president who’s told them — stop. Now this has happened before. They beat back a president before. Bush 41 said — stop, and they said — we don’t want to stop, and by the way we want our money and we want it now. [Ellison laughs.] Right? You know, I mean we can’t allow, we’re Americans, right? We can’t allow another country to treat us like we’re their ATM. Right? And so we ought to stand up as Americans.
>>> 
>>> Equally sinful in the eyes of the ADL was this statement on U.S. foreign policy:
>>> 
>>> The United States foreign policy in the Middle East is governed by what is good or bad through a country of 7 million people. A region of 350 million all turns on a country of 7 million. Does that make sense? [A male says “no.”] Is that logic? Right? When the people who, when the Americans who trace their roots back to those 350 million get involved, everything changes.
>>> 
>>> As J.J. Goldberg of The Forward noted, Ellison wasn’t lamenting the insidious influence of U.S. Jews — as the ADL shamefully claimed — but rather was “plainly describing how American Muslims could have greater influence on American policy if they learned to organize.”
>>> 
>>> And agree or disagree with those positions, it is an indisputable fact that Israel receives far more in U.S. aid than any other country yet continually does exactly that which numerous U.S. presidents have insisted it not do, often to the detriment of U.S. interests. And many prominent foreign policy experts — including David Petraeus — have warned that excessive U.S. support for the worst actions of the Israeli government endangers U.S. national security by alienating Arabs in the region and fueling support for anti-American terrorism. The idea that a member of Congress is not permitted to debate these policies without being branded an anti-Semite is sheer insanity: malicious insanity at that.
>>> 
>>> But that insanity is par for the course in Washington, where anyone who even questions U.S. policy toward Israel is smeared in this way — from James Baker to Howard Dean to Bernie Sanders and even Donald Trump. So pernicious is this framework that the U.S. Senate just passed legislation expressly equating what it regards as unfair criticism of the Israeli government with “anti-Semitism.” And when one is an American Muslim, ugly stereotypes and pervasive Islamophobia are added to this toxic brew to make the smears worse by many magnitudes. 
>>> 
>>> THIS SMEAR CAMPAIGN against Ellison received a major boost Friday night when the single largest funder of both the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban, said at the Brookings Institution, a part of which he funds: “If you go back to his positions, his papers, his speeches, the way he has voted, he is clearly an anti-Semite and anti-Israel individual.” Saban added: “Keith Ellison would be a disaster for the relationship between the Jewish community and the Democratic Party.”
>>> 
>>> That Saban plays such a vital role in Democratic Party politics says a great deal. To the New York Times, this is how he described himself: “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” In late 2015, Ali Gharib wrote in The Forward: “Saban’s top priority isn’t a liberal vision of American life. It’s Israel.” When Hillary Clinton in 2015 condemned the boycott movementaimed at ending Israeli settlements, she did it in the form of a letter addressed personally to Saban.
>>> 
>>> The Democratic Party’s central reliance on billionaire funders like Saban is a key reason that debates over Israel policy are not permitted within the party. It’s why any attempt to raise such issues will prompt systematic campaigns of reputation destruction like the one we’re witnessing with Ellison.
>>> 
>>> To get a sense for just how prohibited the most benign and basic debates are when it comes to Israel, consider the quotes from Ellison’s college days dug up by CNN as supposedly incriminating. In 1990, while a law student at the University of Minnesota, Ellison blasted the university president for condemning a speaking event featuring the anti-Zionist civil rights icon Kwame Ture (also known as Stokely Carmichael); Ellison’s argument was that all ideas, including Zionism, should be regarded as debatable in a college environment:
>>> 
>>> The University’s position appears to be this: Political Zionism is off-limits no matter what dubious circumstances Israel was founded under; no matter what the Zionists do to the Palestinians; and no matter what wicked regimes Israel allies itself with — like South Africa. This position is untenable.
>>> 
>>> In other words, Ellison — 26 years ago, while a student — simply argued that college campuses should not be deemed “safe spaces” in which debates over Israel are barred: an utterly mainstream view when the topic to be debated is something other than Israel.
>>> 
>>> Leave aside the bizarre attempt to use someone’s college-aged political activism against them three decades later. As my colleague Zaid Jilani very ably documented several days ago, even the most inflammatory of Ellison’s campus statements — including his long-ago-renounced praise for the Nation of Islam — were grounded in righteous opposition to “white supremacy and the policies of the state of Israel” and “show him expressing sympathy for the plight of underprivileged whites and making clear that he was not antagonistic toward Jewish people.” Writing about the smear campaign circulating on the internet against Ellison, The Forward’s Goldberg said he found “the evidence to be either frivolous, distorted or simply false.”
>>> 
>>> As CNN itself acknowledged when digging up these old Ellison quotes: “None of the records reviewed found examples of Ellison making any anti-Semitic comments himself.” How is that, by itself, not the end of the controversy?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> THE REASON WHY it isn’t is a glaring irony. With the advent of Donald Trump and policies such as banning all Muslims from the country, Democrats this year incorporated anti-Islamophobia rhetoric into their repertoire. Yet what is being done to Ellison by the ADL, Saban, and others is Islamophobia in its purest and most classic form.
>>> 
>>> Faiz Shakir is a senior adviser to Harry Reid who previously worked for Nancy Pelosi and the ThinkProgress blog at the Center for American Progress. He explains, from personal experience, that the vile treatment to which Ellison is now being subjected is common for American Muslims in political life:
>>> 
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
>>> 12:31 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> 
>>>   •  192192 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  357357 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3 Dec
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> Keith Ellison is being smeared like so many before him. If you're Muslim in public life or even sympathetic to Muslim concerns, watch out!
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
>>> 12:32 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> Nancy Pelosi Hires Former Terrorist Fundraiser
>>> What Faiz Shakir's powerful new post says about Democratic Party anti-Semitism.
>>> frontpagemag.com
>>> 
>>>   •  5151 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  6363 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3 Dec
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> I was literally called a terrorist by a right-wing publication when I joined @NanyPelosi's office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/133189/nancy-pelosi-hires-former-terrorist-fundraiser-daniel-greenfield …
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
>>> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> 
>>>   •  1717 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  3333 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3 Dec
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> At @thinkprogress, we were absurdly labeled anti-Semitic because we supported Obama admin stances. That cheapens "anti-semitic" charge
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
>>> 12:33 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> 
>>>   •  1313 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  1616 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3 Dec
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> Just Google what Frank Gaffney was saying about Suhail Khan and Faisal Gill in the Bush White House.
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
>>> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> 
>>>   •  1212 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  1717 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3 Dec
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> See how even @GroverNorquist has been unfairly treated by right-wing smear agents because of who he's married to.
>>> Follow
>>> Faiz @fshakir
>>> Now it's Ellison's turn. At some point, this has to stop. So glad @SenSchumer, @rweingarten, others are not backing down to pressure.
>>> 12:34 PM - 3 Dec 2016
>>> 
>>>   •  2727 Retweets
>>> 
>>>   •  5151 likes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In that last tweet, Shakir is referring to the fact that, to their credit, other Democratic voices — such as American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten, J Street, and, most important, Chuck Schumer — continue to defend Ellison. J Street’s statement made the critical point: “It is time to retire the playbook that aims to silence any American official seeking high office who has dared to criticize certain Israeli government policies.”
>>> 
>>> But even these commendable defenses of Ellison illustrate how constricted the permissible range of views on Israel is within the Democratic Party. J Street vouched for Ellison by saying that he “is and has long been a friend of Israel” and is “a champion of pro-Israel, pro-peace policies.” Schumer went further, saying that while he disagrees with Ellison on numerous issues, “I saw him orchestrate one of the most pro-Israel platforms in decades.” Notably, demonstrating steadfast support for the polices of the Israeli government is literally a job requirement to lead the Democratic National Committee — and for every other significant position in Washington.
>>> 
>>> But Ellison has actually fulfilled that requirement. Even his opponents admit: “Ellison unambiguously self-identifies as pro-Israel, supports a two-state solution without reservation, has repeatedly said that Israel has a right to defend itself and expressed the importance of protecting and maintaining Israel’s security, and there is no evidence that he has ever supported or advocated for BDS.” It’s true that, as Jay Michaelson wrote in an excellent Daily Beast column, Ellison “has been critical of Israeli settlements, of right-wing Israeli governments, and of America’s unconditional support for Israel.” But even his Israel advocacy is rather banal, as Goldberg wrote:
>>> 
>>> It must be acknowledged that Ellison’s first loyalty in the Middle East is not to Israel. He is a Muslim, and he makes no secret of his sympathy for the Palestinians. That said, he is a Muslim peacenik. Since entering politics, he has consistently spoken out in favor of the two-state solution, by which he means Israel and a Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security. He’s been active on that front, frequently partnering with J Street and other liberal Zionist groups on efforts to promote peace and security.
>>> 
>>> In other words, Ellison is a mainstream liberal Democrat, albeit situated on the left wing of the party as it is currently constituted in Congress (which is not very far to the left given that Nancy Pelosi resides in a nearby ideological precinct).
>>> 
>>> What makes him such an easy and vulnerable target for smear campaigns such as the one Saban and the ADL are pursuing is that he is Muslim — a black Muslim to boot. Just look at the obvious codes in this paragraph from Michael J. Koplow, the policy director of the Israel Policy Forum, writing in Haaretz under the headline “Keith Ellison Has a Real Israel Problem”:
>>> 
>>> Ellison is not a figure whom anyone would normally expect to be a supporter of Israel. He is an African-American Muslim who did not grow up in a particularly Jewish area of the country, came of age after 1967, when Israel’s image as a David began shifting to that of a Goliath, did not have any prominent Jewish mentors, and has a background in radical politics. As a student, he was harshly critical of Zionism and its legitimacy.
>>> 
>>> While Koplow cites these facts not to endorse the stereotypes but to affirm Ellison’s bona fides as someone one would not expect to be an Israel supporter, those are the demographic attributes giving the fuel to this revolting campaign. As Michaelson, who previously worked with the ADL, acknowledged: “There’s plenty of Islamophobia within my Jewish community as well,” and “the ADL is a perfect example,” citing the group’s shameful opposition to the construction of a mosque in lower Manhattan.
>>> 
>>> If you’re a Democrat, it’s easy to embrace the language of anti-Islamophobia when it comes to condemning Donald Trump and other Republicans. It’s more difficult, but more important, to do so when that poison is coming from within the Democratic Party itself.
>>> 
>>> One of the few silver linings of the ugly Trump rhetoric on Muslims can and should be (and has been) a unified rejection of this sort of toxicity, regardless of where it comes from. Democrats who are sincere about wanting to oppose anti-Muslim bigotry can do so by defending Keith Ellison from these incredibly ugly, baseless, and defamatory attacks.
>>> 
>>> ===
>>> 
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Policy Director
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 21 20:49:05 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 14:49:05 -0600
Subject: [Peace] new email list: us-russia-detente-strategy
Message-ID: <CALMNhNR_GCEKHWrHi2PG__H74defraz1TJ+MuBjueehxNZVhcQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm starting a new email list devoted to promoting "detente" with Russia.
On this list, we're going to share articles from mainstream Western
English-language news sources that promote the idea that we should try to
de-escalate with Russia across various fronts: Ukraine, Syria, nuclear
weapons, etc., with the idea of highlighting mainstream validator voices
calling for de-escalation. My hope is that list members will tweet, share,
forward these articles, etc., to help raise the profile of these mainstream
validator pro-de-escalation voices which are now largely marginalized. But,
if people want to join the list just to read and learn, that's also
welcome.
To subscribe, send an email to: us-russia-detente-strategy+sub
scribe at googlegroups.com.
You can unsubscribe yourself at any time; you can also set email from the
list to digest or nomail to read it on the web whenever the fancy strikes
you.

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 21 23:37:54 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 23:37:54 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Black Agenda Report on the Green Party's Jill Stein, recount
Message-ID: <SN1PR15MB0349F8979816F987CF2AD9CCA3930@SN1PR15MB0349.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

by BAR managing editor Bruce A. Dixon

Before judges and state officials aborted it, the attempted recount initiated by Green Party candidate Jill Stein revealed and confirmed specific patterns of widespread interstate electoral tampering in the presidential election just past that zero in on black and brown communities. The craven need of Hillary and the Dems to blame the Russians for their loss proves that they own the current broken and rigged US electoral system just as much Republicans.

Grand Theft Electoral: Aborted Recount Effort Shows US Elections Are Broken, Recount-Proof and Audit-Proof
by BAR managing editor Bruce A. Dixon

It’s one thing to abstractly claim that US elections are a farcial exercise to legitimize the rule of a bipartisan imperial oligarchy. It’s quite another to publicly lay bare some of the stinky moving parts of that farce. The attempted recount initiated by 2016 Green Party candidate Jill Stein did exactly that, starkly illuminating 3 facts

  1.  that US elections are intentionally and fundamentally broken and rigged, recount-proof and audit-proof;

  2.  that both the capitalist parties like it that way (for differing reasons of course), and;

  3.  that state and federal courts are willing to issue patently absurd rulings from the bench to keep it that way.

The 2016 presidential election was certainly stolen both on and before, and after election day.

It’s absolutely certain that voters were disappeared by the millions in the months leading up to the election. It wasn’t the Russians that did this.

For some time now, Republicans have found themselves in a demographic dilemma. They are unable to get substantial numbers of Latino or black voters, and the numbers of their base constituencies are declining. So for a generation standard Republican strategies have included making Democratic voters and votes disappear by the thousands and hundreds of thousands at state level, and by the millions on the national scale.

In the months leading up to the 2016 election millions of likely Democratic voters were prevented from registering by voter ID laws and uncooperative local registrars. Spurious police raids and criminal prosecutions hindered voter registration drives, and Republican sponsored private initiatives like CrossCheck, a database designed to provide the excuse for state election authorities to challenge legitimately registered voters with names similar to voters or alleged felons in other states. All these measures combined to remove a seven figure number of voters from the rolls across the country.

It’s likely that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions more votes were made to disappear on election day. Russians didn’t do this either.

The tactic of sending all the old and broken down voting machines to ghetto precincts and the newer ones less likely to break down to whiter Republican ones is a standard move practiced by election authorities in large and diverse counties and cities from coast to coast. In the case of Detroit, the state has long since relieved residents of even the pretense of self-government. Detroit and Flint have their own mayors, city councils, election authorities and the rest, but their budgets are all subject to approval by officials appointed by the state’s Republican governor. The same crop of state appointees who decided Flint residents should drink from their poisoned river, denied Detroit’s request to spend some of its own money on new voting machines.

In Detroit and much of Wisconsin too, voters mark their choices on paper ballots which are fed through optical scanners that count the vote. Or not.The aborted recount effort revealed that an astounding 59% of all Detroit’s voting machines failed election day, and more than 75,000 ballots went uncounted. Similar patters appeared in Flint, and in Dearborn Michigan, the largest concentration of Arab American voters in the US. Trump only carried Michigan by 10,000 votes.

It’s clear that state and federal courts intervened to abort any recount before detailed and damning evidence could be developed in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Some things don’t change much. The specious “reasoning” behind legal rulings which aborted meaningful recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan is roughly on a par with the quiz questions Dixiecrat registrars once used to fend off black registrants. They’d ask prospective black voters how many bubbles were in a bar of soap. It was good enough then, and it’s good enough now.

Michigan’s attorney general made the astounding ruling, seconded by state court judges, that Detroit’s paper ballots must not be examined by humans, who might easily determine the intent of those 75,000 voters. Wisconsin officials didn’t allow their recount to go as far as Michigan’s. They left it to each county whether the supposed “recount” would be accomplished by human observers tallying the paper ballots, or feeding the paper ballots into the same broken machines, or simply reading the totals the broken machines had coughed up on election day. The proposed recount in Pennsylvania was kind of a joke from the beginning, since the majority of that state’s voters are forced to use audit-proof DRE or Direct Record Entry machines which record voter choices directly to electronic media with no recountable permanent paper record.

A federal district court judge in Michigan summed it all up when he declared that “...a recount as an audit of the election has never been endorsed by any court...” Current law then holds that so-called “recounts” are utterly meaningless, and it’s perfectly OK for elections to be unaccountable and not subject to any audit whatsoever. You wouldn’t run a taco truck business without an audit. But an election?

Wisconsin eventually halted the recount with Milwaukee, the state’s largest concentration of black voters NOT recounted by hand, declaring that since Stein was not within striking distance of a win in that state, she had no standing to ask for a recount in the first place. Think about that.

First, if being in contention is a requirement for asking a recount, then NOBODY on earth could get a recount except Hillary Clinton herself, as if the election results were her personal property rather than the expression of the will of the people. Second, why didn’t Hillary Clinton’s campaign sieze upon the persuasive indications of widespread fraud to mount challenges in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and for that matter Alabama, Georgia, Arizona, Indiana, Florida, Texas and other places where tens or hundreds of thousands of presumably Democratic votes vanished or went uncounted?

Why didn’t Hillary Clinton expose the massive interstate tampering with ballots in largely black constituencies?

Hillary’s campaign was forced to send token observers to the recount effort. Hillary partisans operating without the campaign’s permission did the original research and drew up a Wisconsin petition alleging foreign intervention as the reason a recount was needed – a petition which Stein carelessly endorsed, to the embarrassment of most Greens. Some 150,000 small Democratic donors funded the Stein recount effort. Team Trump had suits in court and boots on the ground everywhere in the three states recounts were attempted. Hillary’s campaign had the money to e orchestrate challenges a dozen states, and to launch a sustained campaign to expose the national pattern of electoral apartheid centering upon black and Latino communities. But they didn’t.

Evidently the one percenters who call the ultimate shots for the Democratic party just don’t much respect the millions of black and Latin voters in places like Detroit and Philly and Jacksonville who provide that party with what Donna Brazile and others call its “base vote.” It’s a lot easier, and far more in line with the capitalist one percenter self-interest and world view to blame the Russians.

The attempted recount showed the need for a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote.

Democrats in the 70s, 80s and early 90s failed to consolidate the victory won by the Voting Rights Act of 1967. While they held the moral and political high ground for a generation, Democrats, including black ones failed to nail their victory permanently into the nation’s fundamental law by amending the US Constitution to include a specific right to vote. So little by little racist authorities encroached upon voting rights by refusal to comply with motor voter laws, by prosecuting clerical errors by voter registration and absentee ballot drives as felonies, gerrymandering, voter ID laws and administrative machinations.

Democrats John Kerry and Barack Obama, both serving on the Senate Judiciary Committee resisted the pleas of voting rights activists to filibuster the appointments of Justices Roberts and Alito, neither of whom made a secret of their extreme right wing views. So a few years later with Obama in the White House the Supreme Court was able to gut the Voting Rights Act.

Given the current briar patch of voter ID laws, gerrymandering, CrossCheck databases, felony disenfranchisement restrictions on who can vote and when, black box voting, and machinations of state and local officials, along with courts declaring voters have no right to an auditable election the only way to clear the obstacles to voting rights, to make every vote count and ensure every vote is counted is by amending the US Constitution. Other nations have constitutions that spell out a right to vote, along with the right to a clean environment, a quality public education and more. Why not here?

Did the attempted recount damage the Green Party?

Certainly not. Stein asked the Green steering committee to be a fiscal sponsor of the thing, and they wisely declined. If the Greens had done this, they’d have enabled large donors to drop tens of thousands of bucks at a time into the effort to fund the recall, a move that goes entirely against the declared intention and tradition of the Green party. The dispute among Greens over aspects and ramifications of the recount and the aftermath of the 2016 has sparked a lively national discussion among Greens on how to make the Green Party more small-d democratic,and sustainable. That can only be a good thing.

The Green party’s refusal to sponsor the recount meant it had to be funded by small donors. That was another good thing. According to the Stein campaign about 150,000 individual donors kicked in an average of less than $50 apiece to pay for the recount effort. Those small donors who habitually give to Democrats, but once on the list of the national and state Green Parties, whom the Stein campaign is pledged to share its database with, they can be directly addressed, messaged and contacted by state and local Greens. In the near term, a significant number will be converted. After all, Democrats would NOT stand up for their own voters or their own alleged principles.

The Stein campaign has pledged to donate leftover funds to voter integrity efforts around the country. It would be good if some of those efforts specifically target the communities which were disenfranchised, and it seems essential that some or most of these efforts be run by Greens and not Democrats. Some wide awake Greens need to step up here.

Was it necessary? Did the whole thing really have to be done?

Only if you imagine taking part in elections is meaningful in the first place.

In 2017 local Green parties will be working with candidates for municipal and local offices, for school boards and alderman and mayors and county commissioners. If the Green Party knows widespread vote tampering is taking place in 2016 and does nothing about it, how can we look local activists in the eye and tell them they ought to run for mayor and school board in 2017? That would make us hypocrites – almost Democrats.

The recount reminded millions of people, in a tangible way that the Green Party exists as an alternative to the two capitalist parties. The corporate media work long and hard to keep any left alternatives beyond the pale and out of the political discussion. The attempted recount put us in that discussion in a way that would not otherwise have been possible. And for those paying attention, it delegitimized both Republicans and Democrats, and makes the case for something completely different.

The attempted recount was a good thing. It demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt not only that this was a stolen election, but that the laws, the courts, corporate media are complicit in an bipartisan electoral crime wave of national proportions targeting communities of color. Our job now is to tell that story again and again so it becomes common knowledge, and the foundation for whatever transitional demands, like amending the US Constitution, that we can organize around for the near future.

Bruce A. Dixon is managing editor at Black Agenda Report and a co-chair of the GA Green Party. He lives and works near Marietta GA and can be reached via email at bruce.dixon at blackagendareport.com<mailto:bruce.dixon at blackagendareport.com>.
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 03:09:38 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 21:09:38 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
Message-ID: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/>


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From brussel at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 04:04:08 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:04:08 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

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From galliher at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 04:32:55 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:32:55 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
> 
> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
> 
> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q>
> 
> —mkb
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>> 
>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
> 

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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 12:27:28 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 06:27:28 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
> 
> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>> 
>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>> 
>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>> 
>> —mkb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>> 
>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 12:48:31 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 06:48:31 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 

—CGE


> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
> 
> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
> 
> Debra
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> 
>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>> 
>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>> 
>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>> 
>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>> 
>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 13:13:08 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 07:13:08 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
> 
> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
> 
> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
> 
> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>> 
>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>> 
>> Debra
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>> 
>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>> 
>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>> 
>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>> 
>>>> —mkb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ____
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 18:04:25 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 18:04:25 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>,
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


____
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 18:56:17 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:56:17 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
Message-ID: <1DB57840-3632-483C-B556-3609EEFBC187@illinois.edu>

Belden—

On the contrary, I’m certainly willing to "accept responsibility" for those opinions: I quoted those sources because I think they’re correct, and I’m more than willing to defend them.

Anyone who’s paid attention to political writing in the US (and the UK) in last 40 years knows of Alex Cockburn (whom I’m honored to have called a friend) and his reputation.

With many others, he recognized that identity politics was the scam that American liberals substituted for their craven abandonment of class politics in the 1970s, under the assault of neoliberalism.  

(The increasing hysteria with which liberals assert their IP reveals their bad conscience; those who need further information on the matter should see Walter Benn Michaels' piece in the current Nation.) 

Alex, unquestionably a man of the Left, exposed soi-disant socialists who were in fact neoliberals - the SPLC being a prime example, as he explains.

Regards, Carl

[PS - Anyone who wants serious discussion on these and related matters should look at the journal/website Alex founded, CounterPunch - now edited by Jeffrey St. Clair, author of the recently-published "Bernie & the Sandernistas: Field Notes From a Failed Revolution.”] 


> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
> Belden
> 
> 
> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
> To: Estabrook, Carl G
> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
> 
> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
> 
> Debra
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>> 
>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>> 
>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>> 
>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>> 
>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>> 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>> 
>>>>> —mkb
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ____
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace>
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 22 20:46:50 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 20:46:50 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>,
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


____
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec 22 21:47:28 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 15:47:28 -0600
Subject: [Peace] JFP alert: Congress,
	Obama: Don't Start an Arms Race in Space
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTZLyU9ONR+57W-AtP8SJbewr-7ycyr3Z3s3V5bsSt9Zw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Just Foreign Policy <info at justforeignpolicy.org>
Date: Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:44 PM
Subject: Congress, Obama: Don't Start an Arms Race in Space
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


[image: Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=mfS0PxAUYECh83kPIzqr4ABn1F9LoepW>

Dear Robert,

Tell Obama and Congress not to start an arms race in space between the
superpowers.
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=2Vyvn6p3KyluNM%2B0slsS%2FABn1F9LoepW>

By removing the word "limited" from in front of the phrase "missile
defense" in the National Defense Authorization Act [NDAA], *Congress is
laying the groundwork for a costly effort to field space-based weaponry*,
the *Los Angeles Times* reports
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=La6tzm%2FW9XYvDvYAIU%2BsEwBn1F9LoepW>.
Experts say the changes could *aggravate tensions with Russia and China*
and prompt a *renewed nuclear arms race*. The bill awaits action by
President Obama, who has not said what he will do. Leading defense
scientists say the idea that a space-based system could provide security
against nuclear attack is *fantasy*.

*Press President Obama and Congress to oppose a new arms race in space by
signing our petition at MoveOn
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=05NyJOUhB8So4zSa1uOshABn1F9LoepW>.*

“It defies the laws of physics and is not based on science of any kind,”
says David Montague, retired president of missile systems for Lockheed and
co-chair of a National Academy of Sciences panel that studied missile
defense technologies. “Even if we darken the sky with hundreds or thousands
of satellites and interceptors, there’s no way to ensure against a
dedicated attack. *So it’s an opportunity to waste a prodigious amount of
money
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=JS0t9SKbXtFoFS9hyVjufABn1F9LoepW>.*”
He calls the provisions passed by Congress “*insanity, pure and simple*.”

Philip Coyle, former assistant secretary of Defense who headed the Pentagon
office responsible for testing and evaluating weapon systems, describes the
notion of a space-based nuclear shield as a *sham
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=y1sPkM02rNyKVBYTx3xLVwBn1F9LoepW>*.
“To do this would cost just *gazillions and gazillions*,” Coyle says. “The
technology isn’t at hand - nor is the money…*Both Russia and China will use
it as an excuse to do something that they want to do.*” [3]

*Demand President Obama and Congress oppose a new arms race in space by
signing and sharing our petition
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=U%2FBHClnncN7iBXefub23PABn1F9LoepW>.*

Thanks for all you do to help make U.S. foreign policy more just,

Robert Naiman, Avram Reisman, and Sarah Burns
Just Foreign Policy


*Help support our work! * If you think our work is important, support us
with a $15 donation.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=NBI1F9bk11zZ1047asTl4JWzO34G1lul>

[image: Please support our work. Donate for a Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=YXlEpBVYJUrwc53emSPqfwBn1F9LoepW>

© 2016 Just Foreign Policy
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From kmedina67 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 22:20:43 2016
From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (Karen Medina)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 16:20:43 -0600
Subject: [Peace] let there be peace on earth / mark your 2017 calendars with
	peace demonstrations
Message-ID: <CA+0uwiY05SyTOn4uTgN0_9i9jo=ZKi9n-A_=TMzY3Xaq9Lvhmg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Peace,

Let there be peace on earth!

As we look forward to 2017, let us commit to work together to end the
wars that the United States is waging and/or supporting.

Why don't you mark all those beautiful new empty calendars with the
dates of our monthly peace demonstrations right now.
* Join us when you can.
* When you can't be there physically, you can be there with us in spirit.

The first Saturday of every month, from 2pm-4pm. In beautiful downtown
Champaign, Illinois on the corner of Neil Street and Main St.
Saturday, January 7, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, February 4, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, March 4, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, April 1, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, May 6, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, June 3, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, July 1, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, August 5, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, September 2, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, October 7, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, November 4, 2017; 2-4pm
Saturday, December 2, 2017; 2-4pm

Let peace begin with us,
-- karen medina

From brussel at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 01:55:20 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 01:55:20 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
Message-ID: <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


____
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 09:45:31 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 03:45:31 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>

And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?

Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
Deb
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Belden,
> 
> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
> 
> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
> 
> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
> 
> Mort
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Mort,
>> 
>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>> 
>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>> 
>> Belden
>> 
>> 
>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>> To: Fields, A Belden
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>> 
>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>> 
>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>> 
>> —mkb
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carl,
>>> 
>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>> 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>> 
>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>> 
>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>> 
>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>> 
>>>> —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>> 
>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Debra
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ____
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 12:31:05 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 06:31:05 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>

Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/ <https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/>

Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 

American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  

If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   

Regards, Carl
 
[PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
> 
> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
> Deb
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Belden,
>> 
>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>> 
>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>> 
>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>> 
>> Mort
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>> 
>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=cnbN8tHZmP5ZRnws_fwEd4fdGqwpcRuypnaGxgrygD8&e=>
>>> 
>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
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>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 13:14:42 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 07:14:42 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
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 <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <7115E9FF-517B-4A5A-ADC2-532760582F32@gmail.com>

I am horrified at DT because he is a racist, a bully, and a pathological liar and con -man. That you continue to defend him is telling. 
Debra

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/
> 
> Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 
> 
> American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  
> 
> If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   
> 
> Regards, Carl
>  
> [PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]
> 
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
>> 
>> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
>> Deb
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Belden,
>>> 
>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>> 
>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>> 
>>> Mort
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mort,
>>>> 
>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>> 
>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>> 
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>>>> 
>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>> 
>>>> —mkb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carl,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>> Belden
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>> 
>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Debra
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 13:52:17 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 07:52:17 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <7115E9FF-517B-4A5A-ADC2-532760582F32@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
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Message-ID: <9D8188F3-C185-47C5-BC65-B998C92EEE7E@illinois.edu>

I’m impressed at how you can make political predictions from deep insights into character. Is it phrenology?

—CGE

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am horrified at DT because he is a racist, a bully, and a pathological liar and con -man. That you continue to defend him is telling. 
> Debra
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:
>> 
>> https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__theintercept.com_2016_02_23_obamas-2Dnew-2Drationale-2Dfor-2D1-2Dtrillion-2Dnuclear-2Dprogram-2Daugurs-2Da-2Dnew-2Darms-2Drace-2Dwith-2Drussia_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=wwXEvlZPPzozbLOsHyXe2_OvtLYV7SqXjS39sBq6RbY&s=KPqxvUnUswi_AuV_OG1qeXH0x4d-c5IVz9QzZeO1AWg&e=>
>> 
>> Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 
>> 
>> American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  
>> 
>> If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   
>> 
>> Regards, Carl
>>  
>> [PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
>>> 
>>> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
>>> Deb
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Belden,
>>>> 
>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>> 
>>>> Mort
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Belden
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>> 
>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=cnbN8tHZmP5ZRnws_fwEd4fdGqwpcRuypnaGxgrygD8&e=>
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —mkb
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=wwXEvlZPPzozbLOsHyXe2_OvtLYV7SqXjS39sBq6RbY&s=rSOw2dWyNhpOID9fPy0pA0zz-xVvn6EM4kxp-2Xyh6k&e=>
>> 

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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 14:46:52 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:46:52 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <9D8188F3-C185-47C5-BC65-B998C92EEE7E@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>
 <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>
 <7115E9FF-517B-4A5A-ADC2-532760582F32@gmail.com>
 <9D8188F3-C185-47C5-BC65-B998C92EEE7E@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <D4613887-26E8-4DF5-BB68-5CB86AF32D2B@gmail.com>

"Let it be an arms race because we will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all "--revered anti-war activist Donald Trump, 12/23/2016

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:52 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> I’m impressed at how you can make political predictions from deep insights into character. Is it phrenology?
> 
> —CGE
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I am horrified at DT because he is a racist, a bully, and a pathological liar and con -man. That you continue to defend him is telling. 
>> Debra
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:
>>> 
>>> https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/
>>> 
>>> Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 
>>> 
>>> American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  
>>> 
>>> If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   
>>> 
>>> Regards, Carl
>>>  
>>> [PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
>>>> 
>>>> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
>>>> Deb
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Belden,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mort,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 14:55:21 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 08:55:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <D4613887-26E8-4DF5-BB68-5CB86AF32D2B@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>
 <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>
 <7115E9FF-517B-4A5A-ADC2-532760582F32@gmail.com>
 <9D8188F3-C185-47C5-BC65-B998C92EEE7E@illinois.edu>
 <D4613887-26E8-4DF5-BB68-5CB86AF32D2B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5DC83E3-6414-49AF-8CFC-7DD87BD74B1A@illinois.edu>

That's been US policy since the 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "Let it be an arms race because we will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all "--revered anti-war activist Donald Trump, 12/23/2016
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:52 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m impressed at how you can make political predictions from deep insights into character. Is it phrenology?
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am horrified at DT because he is a racist, a bully, and a pathological liar and con -man. That you continue to defend him is telling. 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:
>>>> 
>>>> https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/
>>>> 
>>>> Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 
>>>> 
>>>> American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  
>>>> 
>>>> If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   
>>>> 
>>>> Regards, Carl
>>>>  
>>>> [PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
>>>>> Deb
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Belden,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mort
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mort,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>> 
>> 
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 15:00:57 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 09:00:57 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <D4613887-26E8-4DF5-BB68-5CB86AF32D2B@gmail.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
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 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <E74E4845-193B-47BD-B7B3-A61A3EE32E24@gmail.com>
 <E9A60AF1-61CF-4F52-843E-DFDA46B4700F@illinois.edu>
 <7115E9FF-517B-4A5A-ADC2-532760582F32@gmail.com>
 <9D8188F3-C185-47C5-BC65-B998C92EEE7E@illinois.edu>
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Message-ID: <8A37796D-D158-4A1F-9643-EFF5A767B4D7@illinois.edu>

This has been US policy since JFK knowingly lied about a ‘missile gap’ in order to get elected, in 1960. 


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "Let it be an arms race because we will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all "--revered anti-war activist Donald Trump, 12/23/2016
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:52 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> I’m impressed at how you can make political predictions from deep insights into character. Is it phrenology?
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am horrified at DT because he is a racist, a bully, and a pathological liar and con -man. That you continue to defend him is telling. 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:31 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:
>>>> 
>>>> https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__theintercept.com_2016_02_23_obamas-2Dnew-2Drationale-2Dfor-2D1-2Dtrillion-2Dnuclear-2Dprogram-2Daugurs-2Da-2Dnew-2Darms-2Drace-2Dwith-2Drussia_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=wwXEvlZPPzozbLOsHyXe2_OvtLYV7SqXjS39sBq6RbY&s=KPqxvUnUswi_AuV_OG1qeXH0x4d-c5IVz9QzZeO1AWg&e=>
>>>> 
>>>> Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 
>>>> 
>>>> American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  
>>>> 
>>>> If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   
>>>> 
>>>> Regards, Carl
>>>>  
>>>> [PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
>>>>> Deb
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Belden,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mort
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mort,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=cnbN8tHZmP5ZRnws_fwEd4fdGqwpcRuypnaGxgrygD8&e=>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.” 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=rs3M0UB9637Q3YokbFcXGxvQqv7UhbQcf8Yt91yzr1g&e=>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=wwXEvlZPPzozbLOsHyXe2_OvtLYV7SqXjS39sBq6RbY&s=rSOw2dWyNhpOID9fPy0pA0zz-xVvn6EM4kxp-2Xyh6k&e=>
>>>> 
>> 

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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 23 18:23:21 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 12:23:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] LIVE UPDATES UN Security Council to Vote on Resolution
 Against Israeli Settlements Today read more:
 http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/LIVE-1.760936
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQ5xjs4YsvUruxho-39OGHASxn+YSR2sWQ4ENjpB9f4sQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rare drama at the UNSC today. Hopefully, a sign of things to come.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/LIVE-1.760936

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From a-fields at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 18:41:55 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:41:55 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>,
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


____
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 23 19:40:51 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 13:40:51 -0600
Subject: [Peace] The Hill: Breaking News: UN passes resolution calling for
 end to Israeli settlements
Message-ID: <CALMNhNS1orOx6X_HaGatM6tX9ipwX5F1=dLXSsrkx+uBZavEiw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: The Hill <thehill at email.thehill.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:26 PM
Subject: Breaking News: UN passes resolution calling for end to Israeli
settlements
To: Subscriber <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>





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<http://click1.email.thehill.com/phydwrftvhhbgrghbymvvbddvfbkhfhsslvtrckhjjjmq_qwpsghdw.html>

The U.N. Security Council on Friday passed a resolution demanding an end to
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Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 23 19:44:47 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 13:44:47 -0600
Subject: [Peace] J Street: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements Passes
Message-ID: <CALMNhNT4wH35rtTv5G8eTvsAENh8WNWA-t1Bu6wbfX9-92C8sg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street <info at jstreet.org>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:30 PM
Subject: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements Passes
To: "Mr. Robert Naiman" <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>


[image: J Street]

Robert,

Moments ago, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) passed a resolution
demanding the cessation of Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank,
immediate steps to end terror and incitement, and reaffirming the
international community's support for a two-state solution.

President Obama, despite intense pressure to veto the resolution, made the
bold choice to abstain and allow the resolution to pass.

J Street opposes one-sided resolutions and actions in international
organizations. The United Nations and its constituent bodies have often
acted in a one-sided and biased manner, and J Street has repeatedly opposed
such actions. J Street has also opposed calls to impose a solution to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the UN.

The resolution that passed the Security Council today, however, is not
one-sided. It does not seek to impose a solution on the parties. In fact,
it explicitly calls on the parties to stop taking actions that undermine
the chances of a two-state solution and to re-enter negotiations aimed at
achieving peace.

*We support the decision of the Obama administration to abstain, thereby
allowing for the Security Council's vote to go forward.*

We encourage people to take the time to read the actual resolution, which
respects the interests of the State of Israel and advances the cause of a
two-state solution so vital to maintaining Israel’s democratic and Jewish
character. Our full statement on the importance of this resolution is
pasted below.

In addition, I hope you'll *add your name and thank President Obama
<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=1&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>* for choosing
not to veto this resolution.

J Street has pushed for stronger American opposition to settlement
expansion, and we have suggested for many years that one way to express
that opposition is to allow passage of a resolution on that topic in the
Security Council -- provided it is not one-sided.

In the coming days, the administration will face heat for its principled
stance. Those of us who recognize that Israel’s future as a democratic and
Jewish state is being placed at risk by the emerging one-state reality on
the West Bank must show our support.

*Add your name to our thank you note to President Obama.
<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=2&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>*

Thanks,
Jeremy
J Street Welcomes US Abstention on UNSC Resolution

J Street welcomes the decision today by the Obama administration to abstain
from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution which reaffirms
the need for a two-state solution and calls for a halt to actions by both
sides that serve to undermine the prospects for peace.

The resolution is consistent with longstanding bipartisan American policy,
which includes strong support for the two-state solution, and clear
opposition to irresponsible and damaging actions including Palestinian
incitement and terror and Israeli settlement expansion and home demolitions.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only end based on mutual agreement
between Israelis and Palestinians, and President Obama has repeatedly
stated his opposition to the United Nations -- or any other entity --
imposing a binding resolution on the parties. He also has stated and
demonstrated a commitment to vetoing UNSC resolutions that are one-sided or
anti-Israel.

Recent Congressional resolutions have reaffirmed this position. They have
made clear that there is no US obligation to veto UNSC resolutions, like
the one passed today, which acknowledge harmful actions, rhetoric or
policies of both parties to the conflict. In fact, Democratic and
Republican Presidents alike have frequently supported such UN Security
Council resolutions on the conflict.

Indeed, a Congressional resolution earlier this year joined by 64 Members
of the House of Representatives, and supported by J Street and the
pro-Israel, pro-peace movement, encouraged the US government to “firmly
articulat[e] 49 years of consistent, bipartisan United States opposition to
settlement expansion.”

This resolution conveys the overwhelming support of the international
community, including Israel’s closest friends and allies, for the two-state
solution, and their deep concern over the deteriorating status quo between
Israelis and Palestinians and the lack of meaningful progress toward peace.
It is also a clear signal that the international community's patience with
an occupation of almost 50 years has limits.

Over the past few years, a major increase in settlement expansion and other
activities that undermine the two-state solution have made clear the urgent
need for strong US and international leadership to help preserve it, to
remind the parties of the responsibilities and to help move them back on
the path to a comprehensive negotiated agreement.

The consistent failure of the Palestinian leadership to adequately condemn
acts of terror against Israeli civilians, and the apparent commitment of
the current Israeli government to expanding, entrenching and retroactively
legalizing settlement expansion and land seizure in the West Bank, warrant
a strong rebuke from the international community and a clear affirmation of
the commitments that are needed from both sides. This resolution helps to
fill that need.

The overwhelming majority of American Jewish supporters of Israel continue
to believe that the two-state solution is the only way to secure Israel’s
future as a democratic homeland for the Jewish people, and support strong
American leadership to help achieve that goal, even when that means
criticizing and rebuking counter-productive actions of the Israeli
government. Election Day 2016 polling found that 62 percent of Jewish
voters believe the United States should either support or abstain from
voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution calling on Israel to
stop building settlements in the West Bank.

Moving forward, J Street hopes that both Israelis and Palestinians will
respect the sense of this resolution and take appropriate steps in
response. President Abbas and the Palestinians must show far greater
vigilance and seriousness in opposing and condemning acts of terror, and
acts of incitement -- including actions at the UN that ignore Israeli
rights and historic Jewish ties to Jerusalem and the holy sites of the
Jewish people. Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israelis must reverse the
overwhelming tide of settlement expansion in the West Bank, cease home
demolitions and expulsions of Palestinian residents, and marginalize
prominent leaders calling for a “one-state solution,” annexation, or
permanent occupation.

We urge all actors, including the incoming US administration, to recognize
that this resolution is now the benchmark set by the international
community and must be respected as such. Steps to abrogate or ignore it
would not only damage Israel’s future and the prospects for a two-state
solution, but undermine American interests and standing in the world.


DONATE
<https://act.jstreet.org/donate/donate_to_jstreet/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>
[image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/jstreetdotorg/> [image: Twitter]
<https://twitter.com/jstreetdotorg>


© 2016 J Street | www.jstreet.org
<http://jstreet.org?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> | info at jstreet.org

J Street is the political home for pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans who want
Israel to be secure, democratic and the national home of the Jewish people.
Working in American politics and the Jewish community, we advocate policies
that advance shared US and Israeli interests as well as Jewish and
democratic values, leading to a two-state solution to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 23 20:10:45 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 14:10:45 -0600
Subject: [Peace] NYT: Breaking News: The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote
 against Israel's settlement policy,
 defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSCHnS0Tur1eVr=b1CbCu_gMTSWKeVQVuibBHNJ1qjO_g@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: NYTimes.com News Alert <nytdirect at nytimes.com>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:42 PM
Subject: Breaking News: The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote against Israel's
settlement policy, defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


Add nytdirect at nytimes.com to your address book.
December 23, 2016 [image: The New York Times]
<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACAaZP7LuVVZVCl7yWgPC0/qs3TQ6uz3sX+gEWne0WMoX1DgnxHx6aXU=&campaign_id=132&instance_id=88636&segment_id=100314&user_id=99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236&regi_id=58677638>
NYTimes.com
»
<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACKqxdqYf5TwZPVFmdwYnEXB1hs8h95HhT0q3DH6DeqdAIidSyUPNUQg=&campaign_id=132&instance_id=88636&segment_id=100314&user_id=99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236&regi_id=58677638>
Breaking News Alert
<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACKqxdqYf5TwZPVFmdwYnEXCFFa4OIeTXraggJdZj6+u9dXmt1jIPF9c=&campaign_id=132&instance_id=88636&segment_id=100314&user_id=99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236&regi_id=58677638>
December
23, 2016

BREAKING NEWS
The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote against Israel’s settlement policy,
defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump
<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pg1/LsSf2+gaWFrsVx796OFz3q73Mn5RDyCWqf6T9nx3jKYscaHK/2mf0gNrIV4UXjtoR9xxHQchy+bbJVxJrD2oW+Ockj4gmLqyxsUWW1c9mu1kffsZO9evCBD/qsO+r4&campaign_id=132&instance_id=88636&segment_id=100314&user_id=99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236&regi_id=58677638>
Friday, December 23, 2016 2:33 PM EST
Defying extraordinary pressure from President-elect Donald J. Trump and
furious lobbying by Israel, the Obama administration on Friday allowed the
United Nations Security Council to adopt a contentious resolution that
condemned Israeli settlement construction.
The administration’s decision not to veto the measure broke a longstanding
American tradition of serving as Israel’s sturdiest diplomatic shield.
Read more »
<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pg1/LsSf2+gaWFrsVx796OFz3q73Mn5RDyCWqf6T9nx3jKYscaHK/2mf0gNrIV4UXjtoR9xxHQchy+bbJVxJrD2oW+Ockj4gmLqyxsUWW1c9k2yuX9O6iqgQ==&campaign_id=132&instance_id=88636&segment_id=100314&user_id=99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236&regi_id=58677638>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 23 21:01:33 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 15:01:33 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Breaking News: APN Welcomes UN Security Council Vote
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTAOW640m6bE66gGihbdOJA8_i5uArVq_b2coqb11uYRg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ori Nir, APN <APNDC at peacenow.org>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 2:52 PM
Subject: Breaking News: APN Welcomes UN Security Council Vote
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


[image: Americans for Peace Now]
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=uzYsyeObC%2Faf4ynrBEzovS4iqfxCm9gp>

Dear Robert,

The United Nations Security Council today adopted a resolution in support
of a two-state solution asserting longstanding US positions on the
illegitimacy of West Bank settlements and rejecting settlement-related
policies of successive Israeli governments. The United States abstained,
which allowed the resolution to pass with the support of all other 14
Security Council members.

I want to share with you the statement that I sent to the media moments
after the resolution passed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

December 23, 2016

Contact: Ori Nir | onir at peacenow.org | 202-408-9898 <(202)%20408-9898>

APN Welcomes UNSC Vote on Israeli-Palestinian Peace

Washington, DC – Americans for Peace Now (APN) welcomes today's action in
the United Nations Security Council in support of Israeli-Palestinian peace
and the two-state solution.

The resolution adopted this afternoon is pro-Israel in the deepest sense of
the term, supporting Israel's existence and security, and standing against
those who would sacrifice both at the altar of settlements, for an
ideological, expansionist agenda.

This resolution reiterates international consensus, grounded in previous
Security Council resolutions and international law, dating back nearly five
decades, regarding the illegitimacy of settlements and rejecting
settlement-related policies of successive Israeli governments.

APN commends the Obama Administration's decision to stand with all past
U.S. president since 1967 in maintaining U.S. opposition to settlements,
and to reaffirm longstanding U.S. positioning and language in the Security
Council on this issue.

APN and Israel's Peace Now movement offer numerous resources on West Bank
settlements and on US policy regarding this issue.

For a full record of every U.S. president since 1967 and Israel-related
resolutions in the UN Security Council, click here
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=MMVwJSoafcilwPMsyhC1Vy4iqfxCm9gp>

For APN's analysis of President Obama's record on Israel and the UN, click
here
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Oxxw90RlQP1wWvHrfN6n5i4iqfxCm9gp>

For the text of APN's October 14 statement to the UNSC on West Bank
settlements click here
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Ckta2RMpQ8Eihs4j75JDwS4iqfxCm9gp>

For basic information on West Bank settlements, click here
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=lxUep3lIlLl9yW1bqZfZUi4iqfxCm9gp>
and here
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=2pNfYDtHKzABl%2F2EaSAMWS4iqfxCm9gp>




© 2016. Americans For Peace Now, 2100 M Street NW, Suite 619 Washington, DC
20037.

<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=wTyWqfgVoO%2FMf9a7bQapbC4iqfxCm9gp>
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Poer8aCK%2FtzeNiX%2FUsW%2Fsy4iqfxCm9gp>
<http://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=W87yV%2FFPcBa8GE1%2FVFWEFC4iqfxCm9gp>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 21:40:21 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 15:40:21 -0600
Subject: [Peace] NYT: Breaking News: The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote
	against Israel's settlement policy,
	defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNSCHnS0Tur1eVr=b1CbCu_gMTSWKeVQVuibBHNJ1qjO_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNSCHnS0Tur1eVr=b1CbCu_gMTSWKeVQVuibBHNJ1qjO_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51333EB1-00FD-44E3-BBC0-4385C775B474@illinois.edu>

Obama: "...Nothing in his life / Became him like the leaving it…" 


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: NYTimes.com News Alert <nytdirect at nytimes.com <mailto:nytdirect at nytimes.com>>
> Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:42 PM
> Subject: Breaking News: The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote against Israel's settlement policy, defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump
> To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org <mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> 
> 
> Add nytdirect at nytimes.com <mailto:nytdirect at nytimes.com> to your address book.
> December 23, 2016
>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__p.nytimes.com_email_re-3Flocation-3D4z5Q7LhI-2BKVBjmEgFdYACAaZP7LuVVZVCl7yWgPC0_qs3TQ6uz3sX-2BgEWne0WMoX1DgnxHx6aXU-3D-26campaign-5Fid-3D132-26instance-5Fid-3D88636-26segment-5Fid-3D100314-26user-5Fid-3D99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236-26regi-5Fid-3D58677638&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=U7LMiFJKvh-3IOB0nGTUCaY22bd1dxa9u_iaypzWadw&s=dGqm_UbvuDpigkF1L4xbI8N-N3jFu7kfkEImcY8zhgk&e=>	
> NYTimes.com » <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__p.nytimes.com_email_re-3Flocation-3D4z5Q7LhI-2BKVBjmEgFdYACKqxdqYf5TwZPVFmdwYnEXB1hs8h95HhT0q3DH6DeqdAIidSyUPNUQg-3D-26campaign-5Fid-3D132-26instance-5Fid-3D88636-26segment-5Fid-3D100314-26user-5Fid-3D99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236-26regi-5Fid-3D58677638&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=U7LMiFJKvh-3IOB0nGTUCaY22bd1dxa9u_iaypzWadw&s=CQZEE01wMV1WtxyPO6AFDOAMg4Yv01k0Jp2zI3eIhpE&e=>
> Breaking News Alert <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__p.nytimes.com_email_re-3Flocation-3D4z5Q7LhI-2BKVBjmEgFdYACKqxdqYf5TwZPVFmdwYnEXCFFa4OIeTXraggJdZj6-2Bu9dXmt1jIPF9c-3D-26campaign-5Fid-3D132-26instance-5Fid-3D88636-26segment-5Fid-3D100314-26user-5Fid-3D99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236-26regi-5Fid-3D58677638&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=U7LMiFJKvh-3IOB0nGTUCaY22bd1dxa9u_iaypzWadw&s=y92HFisFhy-sPhPO0t36hWtQqmlBuKHX6_6s9PbDSUg&e=>	
>  
> BREAKING NEWS
> The U.S. abstained in a U.N. vote against Israel’s settlement policy, defying calls to veto from Israel and Donald Trump <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__p.nytimes.com_email_re-3Flocation-3D4z5Q7LhI-2BKVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pg1_LsSf2-2BgaWFrsVx796OFz3q73Mn5RDyCWqf6T9nx3jKYscaHK_2mf0gNrIV4UXjtoR9xxHQchy-2BbbJVxJrD2oW-2BOckj4gmLqyxsUWW1c9mu1kffsZO9evCBD_qsO-2Br4-26campaign-5Fid-3D132-26instance-5Fid-3D88636-26segment-5Fid-3D100314-26user-5Fid-3D99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236-26regi-5Fid-3D58677638&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=U7LMiFJKvh-3IOB0nGTUCaY22bd1dxa9u_iaypzWadw&s=wxhoKKyK_4CdiYlJdaC85M2fX0m7XkNjclmHVhBoouM&e=>
> Friday, December 23, 2016 2:33 PM EST
> Defying extraordinary pressure from President-elect Donald J. Trump and furious lobbying by Israel, the Obama administration on Friday allowed the United Nations Security Council to adopt a contentious resolution that condemned Israeli settlement construction.
> The administration’s decision not to veto the measure broke a longstanding American tradition of serving as Israel’s sturdiest diplomatic shield.
> Read more » <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__p.nytimes.com_email_re-3Flocation-3D4z5Q7LhI-2BKVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pg1_LsSf2-2BgaWFrsVx796OFz3q73Mn5RDyCWqf6T9nx3jKYscaHK_2mf0gNrIV4UXjtoR9xxHQchy-2BbbJVxJrD2oW-2BOckj4gmLqyxsUWW1c9k2yuX9O6iqgQ-3D-3D-26campaign-5Fid-3D132-26instance-5Fid-3D88636-26segment-5Fid-3D100314-26user-5Fid-3D99fd85024c84fbb31e97c2a078406236-26regi-5Fid-3D58677638&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=U7LMiFJKvh-3IOB0nGTUCaY22bd1dxa9u_iaypzWadw&s=hsl6laddm-P7JENXAgZvtKMyLacBwqYmbdh_FgwNiTg&e=>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

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From brussel at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 22:33:24 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 22:33:24 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
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 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
Message-ID: <F4E27A8A-5F25-4314-8AE2-FE0F98FA95C6@illinois.edu>

I guess a reply is warranted:

You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours.

You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim.

Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. .

My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.

What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him.

I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?

I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.

And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,

Mort




On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 23 22:34:54 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 16:34:54 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
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Message-ID: <B6A58222-8DCB-4DDF-8932-7E1EB313CFEF@illinois.edu>

I think Mort is right, on both Putin and Le Pen - although I disagree that “she is far from being an equivalent to Trump.” She resembles him at least in this: if she is elected president of France, her election will I think be part of the movement that includes Brexit and Trump's election.  

I offended Belden recently by quoting Alex Cockburn on race-fakers, so I’ll compound the felony with Alex’ piece on Le Pen from 2012:

=============================================
Who are the real fascists: Marine Le Pen - or the United States?
May 3, 2012
Alexander Cockburn

AMERICAN discussions of Europe swivel between rationality and hysteria. A discussion of Europe's awful unemployment figures and swelling mutiny against austerity suddenly mutates into tremulous wails about the menace of fascism in France, rancid racism in the Netherlands, the anti-Semitic beast unchained in Germany (in the terrifying form of Günter Grass's new poem).

A lot of this has to do with Marine Le Pen, leader of France's National Front. Now and again I'll mention her in something I've written without the obligatory insults about her family heritage and presumed totalitarian agenda. Furious letters pour in, particularly since she made a strong showing in the first round of the French presidential elections.

Marine Le Pen is a nationalist politician, quite reasonably exploiting the intense social discontent in France amid the imposition of the bankers' austerity programs. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard put it in The Daily Telegraph recently, she "presents herself as a latterday Jeanne d'Arc, openly comparing France's pro-EU camp with the Burgundians who plotted 'English Annexation' in the 1430s - or indeed 'Les Collabos' who bought peace after 1940. 'Let us break the chains of the French people. Bring on the French Spring,' she tells Front National rallies."

Anti-Semitism? Diana Johnstone, an excellent journalist who has been reporting from France for years, writes to me, "There is absolutely nothing attesting to anti-Semitism on the part of Marine Le Pen. She has actually tried to woo the powerful Jewish organisations, and her anti-Islam stance is also a way to woo such groups. The simple fact is that the best way to destroy someone in this country is to call him or her 'anti-Semitic'."

Marine Le Pen certainly has made some unsavoury comments about immigrants and Islamisation. But she has gone to the heart of the matter, asserting that monetary union cannot be fudged, that it is incompatible with the French nation-state. She has won 18 per cent of the vote by campaigning to pull France out of the euro and smash the whole project. As Johnstone explains, a new poll shows only three per cent of French voters consider immigration the main issue. So logically, Le Pen cannot owe her 18 percent to that issue. The number-one issue is employment.

It's true, things could get ugly. Europe's politics are being refashioned before our eyes. Greece has 21 per cent unemployment, and the socialist Pasok party could face near-extinction in the upcoming elections. In Spain, one-in-four is out of work, and the right-wing prime minister insists on maintaining austerity. As Evans-Pritchard points out, "We forget now, but Germany was heavily indebted to foreigners in 1930, like Spain today. It was the refusal of the creditor powers (US and France) to reliquify the system and slow monetary contraction that pushed Germany over a cliff. The parallels are haunting."

But there's another aspect to this habit of flinging the charge of fascism at Europe, and that's the simple matter of national hypocrisy. The mobs who flooded into the streets to revel in the execution of Osama bin Laden a year ago were not exulting in America, land of the free and of constitutional propriety. They were lauding brute, lawless, lethal force. In this year of political conventions we'll be hearing a lot of tub-thumping about American freedoms, but if there's any nation in the world that is well on the way to meriting the admittedly vague label of 'fascist', surely it's the United States.

Fascism, among other things, is a system of extreme, methodical state repression, violent in contour and threat, buttressed by ultra-nationalist mythology, a militarist culture and imperial ambition. In the 1980s America started locking up its poor people. Seven million adults were under correctional supervision in 2009. A fascist system uses constant harassment. Last year there were more than 600,000 stop-and-frisks in New York City, overwhelmingly of blacks and Hispanics. Historically, fascist regimes have been particularly cruel toward what is deemed to be sexual deviancy. US sex offender registries doom three-quarters of a million people - many of them convicted on trumpery charges - to pale simulacra of real life. Others endure castration and open-ended incarceration.

Fascist regimes, ultimately the expression of corporate power, repress labour in all efforts to organise. The onslaught here began with Taft-Hartley in 1947 and continued with methodical ferocity during the Reagan and Clinton years. Obama reneged on pledges to make organising easier, froze the wages of federal workers and advanced free trade across the globe. Attacks on collective bargaining are pervasive. Big money's grip on both parties ensures corporate control no matter who's nominally in charge. Fascist regimes show open contempt for democracy while deifying a leader who embodies the national spirit. We salute democracy while suppressing it.

A fascist regime is the sworn foe of the right to assembly, 'unauthorised' marches and encampments. We're sure to see more signs of this around the Nato summit and the national conventions. America is a network of Swat teams and kindred state-employed thugs on permanent red alert.

A fascist regime spies obsessively on its citizens. Study US laws on secret surveillance since the Patriot Act and you will find procedures that would have been the envy of the East Germans.

Ultimately a fascist state claims the right to imprison its victims without term or hope of redress or legal representation. As the executive power, in the form of the president, it claims the right to kill its enemies, whether citizens (Awlaki) or others (Guantánamo), without judicial review. In other words, rule by decree - which is what Hitler's Enabling Act won him in March 1933.

We live in a fascist country - 'proto-fascist' if you want to allay public disquiet, though there's scant sign that most Americans are disturbed by the trends. So quit beating up on Europe.
=============================================

—CGE


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mort,
> 
> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
> 
> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
> 
> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
> 
> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
> 
> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
> 
> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
> 
> Belden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Brussel, Morton K
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
> To: Fields, A Belden
> Cc: peace
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
> 
> Belden,
> 
> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
> 
> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
> 
> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
> 
> Mort
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Mort,
>> 
>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>> 
>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>> 
>> Belden
>> 
>> 
>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>> To: Fields, A Belden
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>> 
>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>> 
>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>> 
>> —mkb
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carl,
>>> 
>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>> 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>> 
>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>> 
>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>> 
>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>> 
>>>> —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>> 
>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Debra
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ____


From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 24 00:36:34 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 00:36:34 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <B6A58222-8DCB-4DDF-8932-7E1EB313CFEF@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <B6A58222-8DCB-4DDF-8932-7E1EB313CFEF@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03470F59B0362455B144042EA3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

For what it’s worth I am in agreement with Mort, Carl and Alex on Putin and Europe. 

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 14:34, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I think Mort is right, on both Putin and Le Pen - although I disagree that “she is far from being an equivalent to Trump.” She resembles him at least in this: if she is elected president of France, her election will I think be part of the movement that includes Brexit and Trump's election.  
> 
> I offended Belden recently by quoting Alex Cockburn on race-fakers, so I’ll compound the felony with Alex’ piece on Le Pen from 2012:
> 
> =============================================
> Who are the real fascists: Marine Le Pen - or the United States?
> May 3, 2012
> Alexander Cockburn
> 
> AMERICAN discussions of Europe swivel between rationality and hysteria. A discussion of Europe's awful unemployment figures and swelling mutiny against austerity suddenly mutates into tremulous wails about the menace of fascism in France, rancid racism in the Netherlands, the anti-Semitic beast unchained in Germany (in the terrifying form of Günter Grass's new poem).
> 
> A lot of this has to do with Marine Le Pen, leader of France's National Front. Now and again I'll mention her in something I've written without the obligatory insults about her family heritage and presumed totalitarian agenda. Furious letters pour in, particularly since she made a strong showing in the first round of the French presidential elections.
> 
> Marine Le Pen is a nationalist politician, quite reasonably exploiting the intense social discontent in France amid the imposition of the bankers' austerity programs. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard put it in The Daily Telegraph recently, she "presents herself as a latterday Jeanne d'Arc, openly comparing France's pro-EU camp with the Burgundians who plotted 'English Annexation' in the 1430s - or indeed 'Les Collabos' who bought peace after 1940. 'Let us break the chains of the French people. Bring on the French Spring,' she tells Front National rallies."
> 
> Anti-Semitism? Diana Johnstone, an excellent journalist who has been reporting from France for years, writes to me, "There is absolutely nothing attesting to anti-Semitism on the part of Marine Le Pen. She has actually tried to woo the powerful Jewish organisations, and her anti-Islam stance is also a way to woo such groups. The simple fact is that the best way to destroy someone in this country is to call him or her 'anti-Semitic'."
> 
> Marine Le Pen certainly has made some unsavoury comments about immigrants and Islamisation. But she has gone to the heart of the matter, asserting that monetary union cannot be fudged, that it is incompatible with the French nation-state. She has won 18 per cent of the vote by campaigning to pull France out of the euro and smash the whole project. As Johnstone explains, a new poll shows only three per cent of French voters consider immigration the main issue. So logically, Le Pen cannot owe her 18 percent to that issue. The number-one issue is employment.
> 
> It's true, things could get ugly. Europe's politics are being refashioned before our eyes. Greece has 21 per cent unemployment, and the socialist Pasok party could face near-extinction in the upcoming elections. In Spain, one-in-four is out of work, and the right-wing prime minister insists on maintaining austerity. As Evans-Pritchard points out, "We forget now, but Germany was heavily indebted to foreigners in 1930, like Spain today. It was the refusal of the creditor powers (US and France) to reliquify the system and slow monetary contraction that pushed Germany over a cliff. The parallels are haunting."
> 
> But there's another aspect to this habit of flinging the charge of fascism at Europe, and that's the simple matter of national hypocrisy. The mobs who flooded into the streets to revel in the execution of Osama bin Laden a year ago were not exulting in America, land of the free and of constitutional propriety. They were lauding brute, lawless, lethal force. In this year of political conventions we'll be hearing a lot of tub-thumping about American freedoms, but if there's any nation in the world that is well on the way to meriting the admittedly vague label of 'fascist', surely it's the United States.
> 
> Fascism, among other things, is a system of extreme, methodical state repression, violent in contour and threat, buttressed by ultra-nationalist mythology, a militarist culture and imperial ambition. In the 1980s America started locking up its poor people. Seven million adults were under correctional supervision in 2009. A fascist system uses constant harassment. Last year there were more than 600,000 stop-and-frisks in New York City, overwhelmingly of blacks and Hispanics. Historically, fascist regimes have been particularly cruel toward what is deemed to be sexual deviancy. US sex offender registries doom three-quarters of a million people - many of them convicted on trumpery charges - to pale simulacra of real life. Others endure castration and open-ended incarceration.
> 
> Fascist regimes, ultimately the expression of corporate power, repress labour in all efforts to organise. The onslaught here began with Taft-Hartley in 1947 and continued with methodical ferocity during the Reagan and Clinton years. Obama reneged on pledges to make organising easier, froze the wages of federal workers and advanced free trade across the globe. Attacks on collective bargaining are pervasive. Big money's grip on both parties ensures corporate control no matter who's nominally in charge. Fascist regimes show open contempt for democracy while deifying a leader who embodies the national spirit. We salute democracy while suppressing it.
> 
> A fascist regime is the sworn foe of the right to assembly, 'unauthorised' marches and encampments. We're sure to see more signs of this around the Nato summit and the national conventions. America is a network of Swat teams and kindred state-employed thugs on permanent red alert.
> 
> A fascist regime spies obsessively on its citizens. Study US laws on secret surveillance since the Patriot Act and you will find procedures that would have been the envy of the East Germans.
> 
> Ultimately a fascist state claims the right to imprison its victims without term or hope of redress or legal representation. As the executive power, in the form of the president, it claims the right to kill its enemies, whether citizens (Awlaki) or others (Guantánamo), without judicial review. In other words, rule by decree - which is what Hitler's Enabling Act won him in March 1933.
> 
> We live in a fascist country - 'proto-fascist' if you want to allay public disquiet, though there's scant sign that most Americans are disturbed by the trends. So quit beating up on Europe.
> =============================================
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mort,
>> 
>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>> 
>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>> 
>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>> 
>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>> 
>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>> 
>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>> 
>> Belden
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>> To: Fields, A Belden
>> Cc: peace
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>> 
>> Belden,
>> 
>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>> 
>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>> 
>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>> 
>> Mort
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>> 
>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>>> 
>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ____
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 24 01:16:54 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 01:16:54 +0000
Subject: [Peace] J Street: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements
	Passes
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNT4wH35rtTv5G8eTvsAENh8WNWA-t1Bu6wbfX9-92C8sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNT4wH35rtTv5G8eTvsAENh8WNWA-t1Bu6wbfX9-92C8sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB0347ED17A5416E7B249297C6A3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Wow, what a man. We’re supposed to thank Obama for abstaining from voting?
The man who holds the highest position in the land, the nation that controls the UN, the man/nation responsible for destroying Libya, and expanding our wars across the middle east, and he is applauded for abstaining?


On Dec 23, 2016, at 11:44, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street <info at jstreet.org<mailto:info at jstreet.org>>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:30 PM
Subject: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements Passes
To: "Mr. Robert Naiman" <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>>


[J Street]

Robert,

Moments ago, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) passed a resolution demanding the cessation of Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank, immediate steps to end terror and incitement, and reaffirming the international community's support for a two-state solution.

President Obama, despite intense pressure to veto the resolution, made the bold choice to abstain and allow the resolution to pass.

J Street opposes one-sided resolutions and actions in international organizations. The United Nations and its constituent bodies have often acted in a one-sided and biased manner, and J Street has repeatedly opposed such actions. J Street has also opposed calls to impose a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the UN.

The resolution that passed the Security Council today, however, is not one-sided. It does not seek to impose a solution on the parties. In fact, it explicitly calls on the parties to stop taking actions that undermine the chances of a two-state solution and to re-enter negotiations aimed at achieving peace.

We support the decision of the Obama administration to abstain, thereby allowing for the Security Council's vote to go forward.

We encourage people to take the time to read the actual resolution, which respects the interests of the State of Israel and advances the cause of a two-state solution so vital to maintaining Israel’s democratic and Jewish character. Our full statement on the importance of this resolution is pasted below.

In addition, I hope you'll add your name and thank President Obama<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=1&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> for choosing not to veto this resolution.

J Street has pushed for stronger American opposition to settlement expansion, and we have suggested for many years that one way to express that opposition is to allow passage of a resolution on that topic in the Security Council -- provided it is not one-sided.

In the coming days, the administration will face heat for its principled stance. Those of us who recognize that Israel’s future as a democratic and Jewish state is being placed at risk by the emerging one-state reality on the West Bank must show our support.

Add your name to our thank you note to President Obama.<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=2&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>

Thanks,
Jeremy

J Street Welcomes US Abstention on UNSC Resolution

J Street welcomes the decision today by the Obama administration to abstain from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution which reaffirms the need for a two-state solution and calls for a halt to actions by both sides that serve to undermine the prospects for peace.

The resolution is consistent with longstanding bipartisan American policy, which includes strong support for the two-state solution, and clear opposition to irresponsible and damaging actions including Palestinian incitement and terror and Israeli settlement expansion and home demolitions.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only end based on mutual agreement between Israelis and Palestinians, and President Obama has repeatedly stated his opposition to the United Nations -- or any other entity -- imposing a binding resolution on the parties. He also has stated and demonstrated a commitment to vetoing UNSC resolutions that are one-sided or anti-Israel.

Recent Congressional resolutions have reaffirmed this position. They have made clear that there is no US obligation to veto UNSC resolutions, like the one passed today, which acknowledge harmful actions, rhetoric or policies of both parties to the conflict. In fact, Democratic and Republican Presidents alike have frequently supported such UN Security Council resolutions on the conflict.

Indeed, a Congressional resolution earlier this year joined by 64 Members of the House of Representatives, and supported by J Street and the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement, encouraged the US government to “firmly articulat[e] 49 years of consistent, bipartisan United States opposition to settlement expansion.”

This resolution conveys the overwhelming support of the international community, including Israel’s closest friends and allies, for the two-state solution, and their deep concern over the deteriorating status quo between Israelis and Palestinians and the lack of meaningful progress toward peace. It is also a clear signal that the international community's patience with an occupation of almost 50 years has limits.

Over the past few years, a major increase in settlement expansion and other activities that undermine the two-state solution have made clear the urgent need for strong US and international leadership to help preserve it, to remind the parties of the responsibilities and to help move them back on the path to a comprehensive negotiated agreement.

The consistent failure of the Palestinian leadership to adequately condemn acts of terror against Israeli civilians, and the apparent commitment of the current Israeli government to expanding, entrenching and retroactively legalizing settlement expansion and land seizure in the West Bank, warrant a strong rebuke from the international community and a clear affirmation of the commitments that are needed from both sides. This resolution helps to fill that need.

The overwhelming majority of American Jewish supporters of Israel continue to believe that the two-state solution is the only way to secure Israel’s future as a democratic homeland for the Jewish people, and support strong American leadership to help achieve that goal, even when that means criticizing and rebuking counter-productive actions of the Israeli government. Election Day 2016 polling found that 62 percent of Jewish voters believe the United States should either support or abstain from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution calling on Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank.

Moving forward, J Street hopes that both Israelis and Palestinians will respect the sense of this resolution and take appropriate steps in response. President Abbas and the Palestinians must show far greater vigilance and seriousness in opposing and condemning acts of terror, and acts of incitement -- including actions at the UN that ignore Israeli rights and historic Jewish ties to Jerusalem and the holy sites of the Jewish people. Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israelis must reverse the overwhelming tide of settlement expansion in the West Bank, cease home demolitions and expulsions of Palestinian residents, and marginalize prominent leaders calling for a “one-state solution,” annexation, or permanent occupation.

We urge all actors, including the incoming US administration, to recognize that this resolution is now the benchmark set by the international community and must be respected as such. Steps to abrogate or ignore it would not only damage Israel’s future and the prospects for a two-state solution, but undermine American interests and standing in the world.

[https://act.jstreet.org/o.gif?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT]


DONATE<https://act.jstreet.org/donate/donate_to_jstreet/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>


[Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/jstreetdotorg/>    [Twitter]  <https://twitter.com/jstreetdotorg>



© 2016 J Street | www.jstreet.org<http://jstreet.org/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> | info at jstreet.org<mailto:info at jstreet.org>

J Street is the political home for pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans who want Israel to be secure, democratic and the national home of the Jewish people. Working in American politics and the Jewish community, we advocate policies that advance shared US and Israeli interests as well as Jewish and democratic values, leading to a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.








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From niloofar.peace at gmail.com  Sat Dec 24 02:46:11 2016
From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 20:46:11 -0600
Subject: [Peace] J Street: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements
	Passes
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB0347ED17A5416E7B249297C6A3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CALMNhNT4wH35rtTv5G8eTvsAENh8WNWA-t1Bu6wbfX9-92C8sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY1PR15MB0347ED17A5416E7B249297C6A3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFLceazeMGTQtYM25O6q4zKeMxTA86D1rnYSV9FQ3M=jnqN9TA@mail.gmail.com>

Eight years too late!

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Wow, what a man. We’re supposed to thank Obama for abstaining from
> voting?
> The man who holds the highest position in the land, the nation that
> controls the UN, the man/nation responsible for destroying Libya, and
> expanding our wars across the middle east, and he is applauded for
> abstaining?
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2016, at 11:44, Robert Naiman via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street <info at jstreet.org>
> Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:30 PM
> Subject: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements Passes
> To: "Mr. Robert Naiman" <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>
>
> [image: J Street]
>
> Robert,
>
> Moments ago, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) passed a
> resolution demanding the cessation of Israeli settlement expansion in the
> West Bank, immediate steps to end terror and incitement, and reaffirming
> the international community's support for a two-state solution.
>
> President Obama, despite intense pressure to veto the resolution, made the
> bold choice to abstain and allow the resolution to pass.
>
> J Street opposes one-sided resolutions and actions in international
> organizations. The United Nations and its constituent bodies have often
> acted in a one-sided and biased manner, and J Street has repeatedly opposed
> such actions. J Street has also opposed calls to impose a solution to the
> Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the UN.
>
> The resolution that passed the Security Council today, however, is not
> one-sided. It does not seek to impose a solution on the parties. In fact,
> it explicitly calls on the parties to stop taking actions that undermine
> the chances of a two-state solution and to re-enter negotiations aimed at
> achieving peace.
>
> *We support the decision of the Obama administration to abstain, thereby
> allowing for the Security Council's vote to go forward.*
>
> We encourage people to take the time to read the actual resolution, which
> respects the interests of the State of Israel and advances the cause of a
> two-state solution so vital to maintaining Israel’s democratic and Jewish
> character. Our full statement on the importance of this resolution is
> pasted below.
>
> In addition, I hope you'll *add your name and thank President Obama
> <http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=1&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>* for
> choosing not to veto this resolution.
>
> J Street has pushed for stronger American opposition to settlement
> expansion, and we have suggested for many years that one way to express
> that opposition is to allow passage of a resolution on that topic in the
> Security Council -- provided it is not one-sided.
>
> In the coming days, the administration will face heat for its principled
> stance. Those of us who recognize that Israel’s future as a democratic and
> Jewish state is being placed at risk by the emerging one-state reality on
> the West Bank must show our support.
>
> *Add your name to our thank you note to President Obama.
> <http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=2&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>*
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
> J Street Welcomes US Abstention on UNSC Resolution
>
> J Street welcomes the decision today by the Obama administration to
> abstain from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution which
> reaffirms the need for a two-state solution and calls for a halt to actions
> by both sides that serve to undermine the prospects for peace.
>
> The resolution is consistent with longstanding bipartisan American policy,
> which includes strong support for the two-state solution, and clear
> opposition to irresponsible and damaging actions including Palestinian
> incitement and terror and Israeli settlement expansion and home demolitions.
>
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only end based on mutual agreement
> between Israelis and Palestinians, and President Obama has repeatedly
> stated his opposition to the United Nations -- or any other entity --
> imposing a binding resolution on the parties. He also has stated and
> demonstrated a commitment to vetoing UNSC resolutions that are one-sided or
> anti-Israel.
>
> Recent Congressional resolutions have reaffirmed this position. They have
> made clear that there is no US obligation to veto UNSC resolutions, like
> the one passed today, which acknowledge harmful actions, rhetoric or
> policies of both parties to the conflict. In fact, Democratic and
> Republican Presidents alike have frequently supported such UN Security
> Council resolutions on the conflict.
>
> Indeed, a Congressional resolution earlier this year joined by 64 Members
> of the House of Representatives, and supported by J Street and the
> pro-Israel, pro-peace movement, encouraged the US government to “firmly
> articulat[e] 49 years of consistent, bipartisan United States opposition to
> settlement expansion.”
>
> This resolution conveys the overwhelming support of the international
> community, including Israel’s closest friends and allies, for the two-state
> solution, and their deep concern over the deteriorating status quo between
> Israelis and Palestinians and the lack of meaningful progress toward peace.
> It is also a clear signal that the international community's patience with
> an occupation of almost 50 years has limits.
>
> Over the past few years, a major increase in settlement expansion and
> other activities that undermine the two-state solution have made clear the
> urgent need for strong US and international leadership to help preserve it,
> to remind the parties of the responsibilities and to help move them back on
> the path to a comprehensive negotiated agreement.
>
> The consistent failure of the Palestinian leadership to adequately condemn
> acts of terror against Israeli civilians, and the apparent commitment of
> the current Israeli government to expanding, entrenching and retroactively
> legalizing settlement expansion and land seizure in the West Bank, warrant
> a strong rebuke from the international community and a clear affirmation of
> the commitments that are needed from both sides. This resolution helps to
> fill that need.
>
> The overwhelming majority of American Jewish supporters of Israel continue
> to believe that the two-state solution is the only way to secure Israel’s
> future as a democratic homeland for the Jewish people, and support strong
> American leadership to help achieve that goal, even when that means
> criticizing and rebuking counter-productive actions of the Israeli
> government. Election Day 2016 polling found that 62 percent of Jewish
> voters believe the United States should either support or abstain from
> voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution calling on Israel to
> stop building settlements in the West Bank.
>
> Moving forward, J Street hopes that both Israelis and Palestinians will
> respect the sense of this resolution and take appropriate steps in
> response. President Abbas and the Palestinians must show far greater
> vigilance and seriousness in opposing and condemning acts of terror, and
> acts of incitement -- including actions at the UN that ignore Israeli
> rights and historic Jewish ties to Jerusalem and the holy sites of the
> Jewish people. Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israelis must reverse the
> overwhelming tide of settlement expansion in the West Bank, cease home
> demolitions and expulsions of Palestinian residents, and marginalize
> prominent leaders calling for a “one-state solution,” annexation, or
> permanent occupation.
>
> We urge all actors, including the incoming US administration, to recognize
> that this resolution is now the benchmark set by the international
> community and must be respected as such. Steps to abrogate or ignore it
> would not only damage Israel’s future and the prospects for a two-state
> solution, but undermine American interests and standing in the world.
>
>
> DONATE
> <https://act.jstreet.org/donate/donate_to_jstreet/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>
> [image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/jstreetdotorg/> [image:
> Twitter] <https://twitter.com/jstreetdotorg>
>
>
> © 2016 J Street | www.jstreet.org
> <http://jstreet.org/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> | info at jstreet.org
>
> J Street is the political home for pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans who
> want Israel to be secure, democratic and the national home of the Jewish
> people. Working in American politics and the Jewish community, we advocate
> policies that advance shared US and Israeli interests as well as Jewish and
> democratic values, leading to a two-state solution to the
> Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
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From karenaram at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 24 03:09:56 2016
From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 03:09:56 +0000
Subject: [Peace] J Street: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements
	Passes
In-Reply-To: <CAFLceazeMGTQtYM25O6q4zKeMxTA86D1rnYSV9FQ3M=jnqN9TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNT4wH35rtTv5G8eTvsAENh8WNWA-t1Bu6wbfX9-92C8sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY1PR15MB0347ED17A5416E7B249297C6A3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAFLceazeMGTQtYM25O6q4zKeMxTA86D1rnYSV9FQ3M=jnqN9TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB03472A2D6E9A2DB9689AB735A3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

And, yes eight years, too bloody late.


On Dec 23, 2016, at 18:46, Niloofar Shambayati <niloofar.peace at gmail.com<mailto:niloofar.peace at gmail.com>> wrote:

Eight years too late!

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
Wow, what a man. We’re supposed to thank Obama for abstaining from voting?
The man who holds the highest position in the land, the nation that controls the UN, the man/nation responsible for destroying Libya, and expanding our wars across the middle east, and he is applauded for abstaining?


On Dec 23, 2016, at 11:44, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street <info at jstreet.org<mailto:info at jstreet.org>>
Date: Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:30 PM
Subject: BREAKING: UNSC Resolution on Settlements Passes
To: "Mr. Robert Naiman" <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>>


[J Street]

Robert,

Moments ago, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) passed a resolution demanding the cessation of Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank, immediate steps to end terror and incitement, and reaffirming the international community's support for a two-state solution.

President Obama, despite intense pressure to veto the resolution, made the bold choice to abstain and allow the resolution to pass.

J Street opposes one-sided resolutions and actions in international organizations. The United Nations and its constituent bodies have often acted in a one-sided and biased manner, and J Street has repeatedly opposed such actions. J Street has also opposed calls to impose a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict at the UN.

The resolution that passed the Security Council today, however, is not one-sided. It does not seek to impose a solution on the parties. In fact, it explicitly calls on the parties to stop taking actions that undermine the chances of a two-state solution and to re-enter negotiations aimed at achieving peace.

We support the decision of the Obama administration to abstain, thereby allowing for the Security Council's vote to go forward.

We encourage people to take the time to read the actual resolution, which respects the interests of the State of Israel and advances the cause of a two-state solution so vital to maintaining Israel’s democratic and Jewish character. Our full statement on the importance of this resolution is pasted below.

In addition, I hope you'll add your name and thank President Obama<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=1&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> for choosing not to veto this resolution.

J Street has pushed for stronger American opposition to settlement expansion, and we have suggested for many years that one way to express that opposition is to allow passage of a resolution on that topic in the Security Council -- provided it is not one-sided.

In the coming days, the administration will face heat for its principled stance. Those of us who recognize that Israel’s future as a democratic and Jewish state is being placed at risk by the emerging one-state reality on the West Bank must show our support.

Add your name to our thank you note to President Obama.<http://act.jstreet.org/go/5213?t=2&akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>

Thanks,
Jeremy

J Street Welcomes US Abstention on UNSC Resolution

J Street welcomes the decision today by the Obama administration to abstain from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution which reaffirms the need for a two-state solution and calls for a halt to actions by both sides that serve to undermine the prospects for peace.

The resolution is consistent with longstanding bipartisan American policy, which includes strong support for the two-state solution, and clear opposition to irresponsible and damaging actions including Palestinian incitement and terror and Israeli settlement expansion and home demolitions.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only end based on mutual agreement between Israelis and Palestinians, and President Obama has repeatedly stated his opposition to the United Nations -- or any other entity -- imposing a binding resolution on the parties. He also has stated and demonstrated a commitment to vetoing UNSC resolutions that are one-sided or anti-Israel.

Recent Congressional resolutions have reaffirmed this position. They have made clear that there is no US obligation to veto UNSC resolutions, like the one passed today, which acknowledge harmful actions, rhetoric or policies of both parties to the conflict. In fact, Democratic and Republican Presidents alike have frequently supported such UN Security Council resolutions on the conflict.

Indeed, a Congressional resolution earlier this year joined by 64 Members of the House of Representatives, and supported by J Street and the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement, encouraged the US government to “firmly articulat[e] 49 years of consistent, bipartisan United States opposition to settlement expansion.”

This resolution conveys the overwhelming support of the international community, including Israel’s closest friends and allies, for the two-state solution, and their deep concern over the deteriorating status quo between Israelis and Palestinians and the lack of meaningful progress toward peace. It is also a clear signal that the international community's patience with an occupation of almost 50 years has limits.

Over the past few years, a major increase in settlement expansion and other activities that undermine the two-state solution have made clear the urgent need for strong US and international leadership to help preserve it, to remind the parties of the responsibilities and to help move them back on the path to a comprehensive negotiated agreement.

The consistent failure of the Palestinian leadership to adequately condemn acts of terror against Israeli civilians, and the apparent commitment of the current Israeli government to expanding, entrenching and retroactively legalizing settlement expansion and land seizure in the West Bank, warrant a strong rebuke from the international community and a clear affirmation of the commitments that are needed from both sides. This resolution helps to fill that need.

The overwhelming majority of American Jewish supporters of Israel continue to believe that the two-state solution is the only way to secure Israel’s future as a democratic homeland for the Jewish people, and support strong American leadership to help achieve that goal, even when that means criticizing and rebuking counter-productive actions of the Israeli government. Election Day 2016 polling found that 62 percent of Jewish voters believe the United States should either support or abstain from voting on a United Nations Security Council resolution calling on Israel to stop building settlements in the West Bank.

Moving forward, J Street hopes that both Israelis and Palestinians will respect the sense of this resolution and take appropriate steps in response. President Abbas and the Palestinians must show far greater vigilance and seriousness in opposing and condemning acts of terror, and acts of incitement -- including actions at the UN that ignore Israeli rights and historic Jewish ties to Jerusalem and the holy sites of the Jewish people. Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israelis must reverse the overwhelming tide of settlement expansion in the West Bank, cease home demolitions and expulsions of Palestinian residents, and marginalize prominent leaders calling for a “one-state solution,” annexation, or permanent occupation.

We urge all actors, including the incoming US administration, to recognize that this resolution is now the benchmark set by the international community and must be respected as such. Steps to abrogate or ignore it would not only damage Israel’s future and the prospects for a two-state solution, but undermine American interests and standing in the world.

[X]


DONATE<https://act.jstreet.org/donate/donate_to_jstreet/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT>


[Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/jstreetdotorg/>    [Twitter]  <https://twitter.com/jstreetdotorg>



© 2016 J Street | www.jstreet.org<http://jstreet.org/?akid=5396.183166.YjbaeT> | info at jstreet.org<mailto:info at jstreet.org>

J Street is the political home for pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans who want Israel to be secure, democratic and the national home of the Jewish people. Working in American politics and the Jewish community, we advocate policies that advance shared US and Israeli interests as well as Jewish and democratic values, leading to a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.








_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace



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From galliher at illinois.edu  Sat Dec 24 14:34:42 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 08:34:42 -0600
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB03470F59B0362455B144042EA3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
 <A2705826-F535-426B-A7DC-8485018D00E5@illinois.edu>
 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <B6A58222-8DCB-4DDF-8932-7E1EB313CFEF@illinois.edu>
 <CY1PR15MB03470F59B0362455B144042EA3940@CY1PR15MB0347.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D3CDFFF9-612D-47D1-9DB6-8B3D520AEEED@illinois.edu>

Why Le Pen is likely to become next French president: <https://newrepublic.com/article/139500/hope-frances-left>.

Brexit-Trump-Le Pen represent the emergence of an [electorally-]organized working class immiserated by neoliberalism. ("What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers.”)

“'Will François Hollande be remembered as the Franklin Roosevelt of Europe?' It was with this question that Thomas Piketty, author of Capital in the Twenty-First Century and  one of France’s most vocal critics of austerity, began his reflection on Hollande’s electoral victory in 2012. There was undoubtedly a touch of irony in that question—'the comparison can make one chuckle'—but it was nonetheless an honest assessment of the forces that were already impinging on the new president and other major European leaders. In 1932, very little of what became the New Deal was spelled out in Roosevelt’s campaign against Herbert Hoover. [FDR’S 1932 PLATFORM: BALANCE THE BUDGET!] All that Roosevelt knew was that, as Piketty writes, 'the crisis of 1929 and the policies of austerity had brought the United States to its knees and that public power must reassert control over a finance capitalism on the run.' The scale of the crisis pressed Roosevelt into a daring rush of experimentation…. 

—CGE


> On Dec 23, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> For what it’s worth I am in agreement with Mort, Carl and Alex on Putin and Europe. 
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 14:34, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I think Mort is right, on both Putin and Le Pen - although I disagree that “she is far from being an equivalent to Trump.” She resembles him at least in this: if she is elected president of France, her election will I think be part of the movement that includes Brexit and Trump's election.  
>> 
>> I offended Belden recently by quoting Alex Cockburn on race-fakers, so I’ll compound the felony with Alex’ piece on Le Pen from 2012:
>> 
>> =============================================
>> Who are the real fascists: Marine Le Pen - or the United States?
>> May 3, 2012
>> Alexander Cockburn
>> 
>> AMERICAN discussions of Europe swivel between rationality and hysteria. A discussion of Europe's awful unemployment figures and swelling mutiny against austerity suddenly mutates into tremulous wails about the menace of fascism in France, rancid racism in the Netherlands, the anti-Semitic beast unchained in Germany (in the terrifying form of Günter Grass's new poem).
>> 
>> A lot of this has to do with Marine Le Pen, leader of France's National Front. Now and again I'll mention her in something I've written without the obligatory insults about her family heritage and presumed totalitarian agenda. Furious letters pour in, particularly since she made a strong showing in the first round of the French presidential elections.
>> 
>> Marine Le Pen is a nationalist politician, quite reasonably exploiting the intense social discontent in France amid the imposition of the bankers' austerity programs. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard put it in The Daily Telegraph recently, she "presents herself as a latterday Jeanne d'Arc, openly comparing France's pro-EU camp with the Burgundians who plotted 'English Annexation' in the 1430s - or indeed 'Les Collabos' who bought peace after 1940. 'Let us break the chains of the French people. Bring on the French Spring,' she tells Front National rallies."
>> 
>> Anti-Semitism? Diana Johnstone, an excellent journalist who has been reporting from France for years, writes to me, "There is absolutely nothing attesting to anti-Semitism on the part of Marine Le Pen. She has actually tried to woo the powerful Jewish organisations, and her anti-Islam stance is also a way to woo such groups. The simple fact is that the best way to destroy someone in this country is to call him or her 'anti-Semitic'."
>> 
>> Marine Le Pen certainly has made some unsavoury comments about immigrants and Islamisation. But she has gone to the heart of the matter, asserting that monetary union cannot be fudged, that it is incompatible with the French nation-state. She has won 18 per cent of the vote by campaigning to pull France out of the euro and smash the whole project. As Johnstone explains, a new poll shows only three per cent of French voters consider immigration the main issue. So logically, Le Pen cannot owe her 18 percent to that issue. The number-one issue is employment.
>> 
>> It's true, things could get ugly. Europe's politics are being refashioned before our eyes. Greece has 21 per cent unemployment, and the socialist Pasok party could face near-extinction in the upcoming elections. In Spain, one-in-four is out of work, and the right-wing prime minister insists on maintaining austerity. As Evans-Pritchard points out, "We forget now, but Germany was heavily indebted to foreigners in 1930, like Spain today. It was the refusal of the creditor powers (US and France) to reliquify the system and slow monetary contraction that pushed Germany over a cliff. The parallels are haunting."
>> 
>> But there's another aspect to this habit of flinging the charge of fascism at Europe, and that's the simple matter of national hypocrisy. The mobs who flooded into the streets to revel in the execution of Osama bin Laden a year ago were not exulting in America, land of the free and of constitutional propriety. They were lauding brute, lawless, lethal force. In this year of political conventions we'll be hearing a lot of tub-thumping about American freedoms, but if there's any nation in the world that is well on the way to meriting the admittedly vague label of 'fascist', surely it's the United States.
>> 
>> Fascism, among other things, is a system of extreme, methodical state repression, violent in contour and threat, buttressed by ultra-nationalist mythology, a militarist culture and imperial ambition. In the 1980s America started locking up its poor people. Seven million adults were under correctional supervision in 2009. A fascist system uses constant harassment. Last year there were more than 600,000 stop-and-frisks in New York City, overwhelmingly of blacks and Hispanics. Historically, fascist regimes have been particularly cruel toward what is deemed to be sexual deviancy. US sex offender registries doom three-quarters of a million people - many of them convicted on trumpery charges - to pale simulacra of real life. Others endure castration and open-ended incarceration.
>> 
>> Fascist regimes, ultimately the expression of corporate power, repress labour in all efforts to organise. The onslaught here began with Taft-Hartley in 1947 and continued with methodical ferocity during the Reagan and Clinton years. Obama reneged on pledges to make organising easier, froze the wages of federal workers and advanced free trade across the globe. Attacks on collective bargaining are pervasive. Big money's grip on both parties ensures corporate control no matter who's nominally in charge. Fascist regimes show open contempt for democracy while deifying a leader who embodies the national spirit. We salute democracy while suppressing it.
>> 
>> A fascist regime is the sworn foe of the right to assembly, 'unauthorised' marches and encampments. We're sure to see more signs of this around the Nato summit and the national conventions. America is a network of Swat teams and kindred state-employed thugs on permanent red alert.
>> 
>> A fascist regime spies obsessively on its citizens. Study US laws on secret surveillance since the Patriot Act and you will find procedures that would have been the envy of the East Germans.
>> 
>> Ultimately a fascist state claims the right to imprison its victims without term or hope of redress or legal representation. As the executive power, in the form of the president, it claims the right to kill its enemies, whether citizens (Awlaki) or others (Guantánamo), without judicial review. In other words, rule by decree - which is what Hitler's Enabling Act won him in March 1933.
>> 
>> We live in a fascist country - 'proto-fascist' if you want to allay public disquiet, though there's scant sign that most Americans are disturbed by the trends. So quit beating up on Europe.
>> =============================================
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mort,
>>> 
>>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>>> 
>>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>>> 
>>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>>> 
>>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>>> 
>>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>>> 
>>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Cc: peace
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> Belden,
>>> 
>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>> 
>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>> 
>>> Mort
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mort,
>>>> 
>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>> 
>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>> 
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/
>>>> 
>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>> 
>>>> —mkb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carl,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>> Belden
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>> 
>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Debra
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ____
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 


From a-fields at illinois.edu  Sat Dec 24 21:04:26 2016
From: a-fields at illinois.edu (Fields, A Belden)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:04:26 +0000
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <F4E27A8A-5F25-4314-8AE2-FE0F98FA95C6@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
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 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
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 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>,
 <F4E27A8A-5F25-4314-8AE2-FE0F98FA95C6@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B9A18@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>

Mort,

I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.

It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.

I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.

Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.

Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.

Enough said,

I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com; Mohraz, Jane E
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I guess a reply is warranted:

You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours.

You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim.

Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. .

My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.

What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him.

I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?

I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.

And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,

Mort




On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


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From galliher at illinois.edu  Sun Dec 25 02:41:33 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 20:41:33 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B9A18@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
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Message-ID: <318055A2-285B-420D-A180-9E848BF6223B@illinois.edu>

Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult

Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia>>.

Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."

The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.

—CGE


> On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Mort,
> 
> I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.
> 
> It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.  
> 
> I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
> I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.  
> 
> Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.
> 
> Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.
> 
> Enough said,
> 
> I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas
> 
> Belden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Brussel, Morton K
> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
> To: Fields, A Belden
> Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
> 
> I guess a reply is warranted:
> 
> You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours. 
> 
> You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim. 
> 
> Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. . 
> 
> My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.
> 
> What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him. 
> 
> I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?
> 
> I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.
> 
> And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,
> 
> Mort
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mort,
>> 
>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>> 
>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>> 
>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>> 
>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>> 
>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>> 
>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>> 
>> Belden
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>> To: Fields, A Belden
>> Cc: peace
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>> 
>> Belden,
>> 
>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>> 
>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>> 
>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>> 
>> Mort
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>> 
>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>
>>> 
>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=-3CNfIhcn1YfEwj1FDSslX3yTbrkcfEyNM4QeK-Snsk&e=>
>> <Le Pens abridged.docx>
> 
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: "Fields, A Belden" <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> 
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From cge at shout.net  Sun Dec 25 04:22:54 2016
From: cge at shout.net (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 22:22:54 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Kyle Ammons' remarks after Passage of UrbanaSanctuary
	City
In-Reply-To: <15932ff5637-10c8-20a6d@webprd-a14.mail.aol.com>
References: <15932ff5637-10c8-20a6d@webprd-a14.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <12bc5badd1f6e6f02b7c6e882e4602a1@shout.net>

Ammons, like may other Americans, has been misled into thinking that 
slavery in America was a matter of race relations (black people and 
white people) rather than capitalism (owners and workers).

"Probably a majority of American historians think of slavery in the 
United States as primarily a system of race relations — as though the 
chief business of slavery were the production of white supremacy rather 
than the production of cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco. One historian 
has gone so far as to call slavery ‘the ultimate segregator’. He does 
not ask why Europeans seeking the ‘ultimate’ method of segregating 
Africans would go to the trouble and expense of transporting them across 
the ocean for that purpose, when they could have achieved the same end 
so much more simply by leaving the Africans in Africa.

"No one dreams of analyzing the struggle of the English against the 
Irish as a problem in race relations, even though the rationale that the 
English developed for suppressing the ‘barbarous’ Irish later served 
nearly word for word as a rationale for suppressing Africans and 
indigenous American Indians. Nor does anyone dream of analyzing serfdom 
in Russia as primarily a problem of race relations, even though the 
Russian nobility invented fictions of their innate, natural superiority 
over the serfs as preposterous as any devised by American racists." [B. 
J. Fields]

See now "How Race Is Conjured: The fiction of race hides the real source 
of racism and inequity in America today," by Barbara J. Fields & Karen 
E. Fields, Jacobin 6.29.15

This misleading - sometimes innocent but often not - protects capitalism 
from criticism by directing that criticism to racial prejudice (which 
itself should be distinguished from racism properly speaking, which is a 
matter of law, as in apartheid South Africa or Israel). Racism existed 
in the Virginia of my youth, but the laws were changed (see the current 
film “Loving”). Racial prejudice still exists there - but racism as a 
legal structure doesn’t.

--CGE


On 2016-12-24 16:41, Mildred O'brien wrote:
> I don't know if other people attending the Urbana City Council meeting
> after the passage of the Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance were
> listening and offended as I was by remarks of Council person Ammons
> who lectured "descendants of immigrants" who (supposedly) enslaved his
> ancestors but now petitioned on behalf of undocumented immigrants.  I
> was astonished by such language at the time but thought perhaps I had
> not heard what I thought I heard.  Today on WEFT I heard a replay of
> the Council proceedings of December 19 after the passage of the
> Ordinance which confirmed my recollection of his words, which blamed
> [white] immigrants in general for  enslaving his people.
> 
> It is not been historically established that more than 10 - 15% of
> Colonials were responsible for the importation and exploitation of
> slave labor.  Realistically, servitude of black or white enforced
> labor was not economically feasible for the majority of landless
> immigrants to America who were destitute or themselves enslaved
> (Caucasians for 7 to 10 years or more, Africans for life) but was
> restricted to wealthy Europeans primarily from England. My own
> paternal ancestor immigrant was kidnapped from Ireland in 1698 at
> twelve years of age and transplanted to work for a wealthy Englishman
> in tobacco fields of Maryland until the age of 21.
> 
> It is not helpful for contemporary descendants of perceived past
> aggrievances to tar people of good intentions with presumably
> inherited guilt for which they had no responsibility, but to work in
> harmony to prevent repetition of transgressions.
> 
> Midge O'Brien

From brussel at illinois.edu  Sun Dec 25 04:38:33 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 04:38:33 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <318055A2-285B-420D-A180-9E848BF6223B@illinois.edu>
References: <9266CF74-0DF6-4247-8518-094C3328BDA7@illinois.edu>
 <9F5E5B82-AE31-440B-8B52-869B9895B872@illinois.edu>
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 <F9F3F794-F7D5-4270-8A43-E90C7041B981@gmail.com>
 <39BDD7C6-2B6A-4C12-8CC2-1738048B3F83@illinois.edu>
 <284A8CA5-87EE-4D46-9917-406FF7127E0F@gmail.com>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B811C@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <E6A50B2C-6399-4370-9DB0-F12D59EDE213@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8636@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <FB1F0BB3-C6A5-45CE-B8A1-4F8B7F532BBF@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B8ED1@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <F4E27A8A-5F25-4314-8AE2-FE0F98FA95C6@illinois.edu>
 <4BEF5039AB283245B9B22D29042452EB4E1B9A18@CITESMBX4.ad.uillinois.edu>
 <318055A2-285B-420D-A180-9E848BF6223B@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <46E19CF3-0995-4709-A58D-4848AAF6B7F7@illinois.edu>

The Perry Anderson analysis/prognosis of Russia’s future may already have been overtaken by recent events in the U.S. and in Syria, also involving Iran and China (which he ignores), and one can also
argue that his descriptions of the Ukraine events are muddled and disputed.  He thinks Russia/Putin is inescapably trapped in a situation of its/his own devices.  I wonder what Stephen Cohen thinks of it.

—mkb


On Dec 24, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult

Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newleftreview.org_II_94_perry-2Danderson-2Dincommensurate-2Drussia&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=RbDT1tYJGukRYhPt5oNtCeRe3p2Bp2sx7Qk4TWFvItM&m=J2LKqcD9t8E2da-m5_g8OonkMWFYp6JjM3lMxcr4l-Y&s=V7_BFFQ0-LMBYHGeSN1LJxYXQUmtoIrWTJgGJu8Nmak&e=>>.

Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."

The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.

—CGE


On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Mort,

I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.

It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.

I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.

Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.

Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.

Enough said,

I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I guess a reply is warranted:

You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours.

You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim.

Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. .

My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.

What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him.

I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?

I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.

And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,

Mort




On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


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<Le Pens abridged.docx>


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From galliher at illinois.edu  Sun Dec 25 04:54:52 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 22:54:52 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
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Message-ID: <098645FF-1A52-400F-A3C9-48088BEDD2E8@illinois.edu>

What’s wrong with Anderson's account of the Ukraine events?

—CGE


> On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> The Perry Anderson analysis/prognosis of Russia’s future may already have been overtaken by recent events in the U.S. and in Syria, also involving Iran and China (which he ignores), and one can also argue that his descriptions of the Ukraine events are muddled and disputed.  He thinks Russia/Putin is inescapably trapped in a situation of its/his own devices.  I wonder what Stephen Cohen thinks of it.
> 
> —mkb
> 
>   
>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult
>> 
>> Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newleftreview.org_II_94_perry-2Danderson-2Dincommensurate-2Drussia&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=RbDT1tYJGukRYhPt5oNtCeRe3p2Bp2sx7Qk4TWFvItM&m=J2LKqcD9t8E2da-m5_g8OonkMWFYp6JjM3lMxcr4l-Y&s=V7_BFFQ0-LMBYHGeSN1LJxYXQUmtoIrWTJgGJu8Nmak&e=>>.
>> 
>> Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."
>> 
>> The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.
>>> 
>>> It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.  
>>> 
>>> I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
>>> I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.  
>>> 
>>> Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.
>>> 
>>> Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.
>>> 
>>> Enough said,
>>> 
>>> I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I guess a reply is warranted:
>>> 
>>> You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours. 
>>> 
>>> You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she  has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim. 
>>> 
>>> Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. . 
>>> 
>>> My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.
>>> 
>>> What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him. 
>>> 
>>> I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?
>>> 
>>> I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.
>>> 
>>> And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,
>>> 
>>> Mort
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mort,
>>>> 
>>>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>>>> 
>>>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>>>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>>>> 
>>>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>>>> 
>>>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>>>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>>>> 
>>>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>>>> 
>>>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>>>> 
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>> Cc: peace
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> Belden,
>>>> 
>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>> 
>>>> Mort
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Belden
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>> 
>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —mkb
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=-3CNfIhcn1YfEwj1FDSslX3yTbrkcfEyNM4QeK-Snsk&e=>
>>>> <Le Pens abridged.docx>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Posted by: "Fields, A Belden" <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> 
>>> Reply via web post <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_messages_6163-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJwaDhvbDFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzYxNjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxNDgyNjEzNDgy-3Fact-3Dreply-26messageNum-3D6163&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=mqI1N7h8vXB4HOaMsfzWhI30DsuVz-iIK-FTMtJo6hY&e=>	•	Reply to sender  <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPeace%5D%20%5BPeace-discuss%5D%20Against%20hysteria>	•	Reply to group  <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPeace%5D%20%5BPeace-discuss%5D%20Against%20hysteria>	•	Start a New Topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_newtopic-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlcXFqdGl2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ4MjYxMzQ4Mg-2D-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=ZGuVyQdRdMBjVoGNs2dgLRLfpiEPICBkMKUUaRFizis&e=>	•	Messages in this topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_topics_6157-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTM0ZDBnaWwzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzYxNjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDgyNjEzNDgyBHRwY0lkAzYxNTc-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=HIuE5_kzLi68Ap8D4P7HpsUzodZBcPta06IOfQMCEp4&e=> (4)
>>>    Have you tried the highest rated email app?
>>>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__yho.com_1wwmgg&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=S-84FTGtpjBjDF1vL9B5kV-yjv15PNigBAnpzfsD3-o&e=>With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.
>>> VISIT YOUR GROUP <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_info-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlazM1cTNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ4MjYxMzQ4Mg-2D-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=mS7b3IaI0D4TiZpoj22VSmokyXts_i2f3lwmFwtDo40&e=>
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>>> .
>>>  
>>> 
>>> __,_._,___
>> 
> 

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From brussel at illinois.edu  Sun Dec 25 05:24:15 2016
From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 05:24:15 +0000
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
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1) He states categorically that the Dutch airliner (M17?) was downed by the Ukrainian rebels.
2) He omits mentioning that a coup leading to the overthrow of the Ukraine president was orchestrated (funded and managed) by the U.S. He omits references to the neonazis involved in (or led?) the uprising. He omits references to the NATO buildup in the Baltic nations and in military (and economic) aid to Ukraine.


On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

What’s wrong with Anderson's account of the Ukraine events?

—CGE


On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

The Perry Anderson analysis/prognosis of Russia’s future may already have been overtaken by recent events in the U.S. and in Syria, also involving Iran and China (which he ignores), and one can also argue that his descriptions of the Ukraine events are muddled and disputed.  He thinks Russia/Putin is inescapably trapped in a situation of its/his own devices.  I wonder what Stephen Cohen thinks of it.

—mkb


On Dec 24, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult

Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newleftreview.org_II_94_perry-2Danderson-2Dincommensurate-2Drussia&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=RbDT1tYJGukRYhPt5oNtCeRe3p2Bp2sx7Qk4TWFvItM&m=J2LKqcD9t8E2da-m5_g8OonkMWFYp6JjM3lMxcr4l-Y&s=V7_BFFQ0-LMBYHGeSN1LJxYXQUmtoIrWTJgGJu8Nmak&e=>>.

Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."

The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.

—CGE


On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Mort,

I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.

It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.

I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.

Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.

Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.

Enough said,

I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com<mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I guess a reply is warranted:

You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours.

You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim.

Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. .

My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.

What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him.

I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?

I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.

And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,

Mort




On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden




________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort



On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden


________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb


On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden


________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE


On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE



On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb




On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>


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<Le Pens abridged.docx>


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From galliher at illinois.edu  Sun Dec 25 05:56:09 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2016 23:56:09 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Against hysteria
In-Reply-To: <9FA6E3C7-C9C7-4153-9564-5BF57BEEFBF1@illinois.edu>
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Message-ID: <E5C05CCB-99DE-4F2A-8799-B3A5FA543006@illinois.edu>

One might say in defense of Anderson’s approach that his focus is on Russian policy, not American (which surely was responsible for the coup in Kiev - and clearly did not hesitate to use the neo-Nazis there). 

The manifold provocations of Russia by the Obama administration are generally unknown to Americans, but not to the rest of the world. —CGE



> On Dec 24, 2016, at 11:24 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> 1) He states categorically that the Dutch airliner (M17?) was downed by the Ukrainian rebels.
> 2) He omits mentioning that a coup leading to the overthrow of the Ukraine president was orchestrated (funded and managed) by the U.S. He omits references to the neonazis involved in (or led?) the uprising. He omits references to the NATO buildup in the Baltic nations and in military (and economic) aid to Ukraine. 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:54 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> What’s wrong with Anderson's account of the Ukraine events?
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Perry Anderson analysis/prognosis of Russia’s future may already have been overtaken by recent events in the U.S. and in Syria, also involving Iran and China (which he ignores), and one can also argue that his descriptions of the Ukraine events are muddled and disputed.  He thinks Russia/Putin is inescapably trapped in a situation of its/his own devices.  I wonder what Stephen Cohen thinks of it.
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 8:41 PM, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult
>>>> 
>>>> Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newleftreview.org_II_94_perry-2Danderson-2Dincommensurate-2Drussia&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=RbDT1tYJGukRYhPt5oNtCeRe3p2Bp2sx7Qk4TWFvItM&m=J2LKqcD9t8E2da-m5_g8OonkMWFYp6JjM3lMxcr4l-Y&s=V7_BFFQ0-LMBYHGeSN1LJxYXQUmtoIrWTJgGJu8Nmak&e=>>.
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."
>>>> 
>>>> The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.
>>>> 
>>>> —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
>>>>> I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Enough said,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas
>>>>> 
>>>>> Belden
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>> Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess a reply is warranted:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. . 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mort
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Mort,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>>>>>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>>>>>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>>> Cc: peace
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Belden,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mort
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mort,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>>>>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>>>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>>>>>> Belden
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —CGE
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.chambana.net_mailman_listinfo_peace&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=-3CNfIhcn1YfEwj1FDSslX3yTbrkcfEyNM4QeK-Snsk&e=>
>>>>>> <Le Pens abridged.docx>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> __._,_.___
>>>>> Posted by: "Fields, A Belden" <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> 
>>>>> Reply via web post <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_messages_6163-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJwaDhvbDFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzYxNjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxNDgyNjEzNDgy-3Fact-3Dreply-26messageNum-3D6163&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=mqI1N7h8vXB4HOaMsfzWhI30DsuVz-iIK-FTMtJo6hY&e=>	•	Reply to sender  <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPeace%5D%20%5BPeace-discuss%5D%20Against%20hysteria>	•	Reply to group  <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPeace%5D%20%5BPeace-discuss%5D%20Against%20hysteria>	•	Start a New Topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_newtopic-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlcXFqdGl2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ4MjYxMzQ4Mg-2D-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=ZGuVyQdRdMBjVoGNs2dgLRLfpiEPICBkMKUUaRFizis&e=>	•	Messages in this topic <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_conversations_topics_6157-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTM0ZDBnaWwzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzYxNjMEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxNDgyNjEzNDgyBHRwY0lkAzYxNTc-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=HIuE5_kzLi68Ap8D4P7HpsUzodZBcPta06IOfQMCEp4&e=> (4)
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>>>>> VISIT YOUR GROUP <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo_groups_sf-2Dcore_info-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJlazM1cTNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ4MjYxMzQ4Mg-2D-2D&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=mS7b3IaI0D4TiZpoj22VSmokyXts_i2f3lwmFwtDo40&e=>
>>>>>  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.yahoo.com_neo-3B-5Fylc-3DX3oDMTJka2llYjMzBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzc4OTI2NjMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDgyNjEzNDgy&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=GNPdqH7EWkESIOkz_IQTCD373dUrvA7xDvPFLKhH_sg&e=>• Privacy <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__info.yahoo.com_privacy_us_yahoo_groups_details.html&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=2tzmG-5hueAfovQwJ8D7stP1JaX3T1FSOPCUssmY8Pw&e=> • Unsubscribe <mailto:sf-core-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> • Terms of Use <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__info.yahoo.com_legal_us_yahoo_utos_terms_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=LKF5VnC7IZISnTu9bThOyM4lc3JI6otn7b7-TN0Ndj8&e=>
>>>>> .
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> __,_._,___
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

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From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com  Sun Dec 25 13:07:03 2016
From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 07:07:03 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Kyle Ammons' remarks after Passage of UrbanaSanctuary
	City
In-Reply-To: <12bc5badd1f6e6f02b7c6e882e4602a1@shout.net>
References: <15932ff5637-10c8-20a6d@webprd-a14.mail.aol.com>
 <12bc5badd1f6e6f02b7c6e882e4602a1@shout.net>
Message-ID: <337BB3B8-531C-4334-A4BB-EBFF855D0636@gmail.com>

One hardly knows where to begin, other than correcting the subject line wherein Alderman Aaron Ammons is misidentified as "Kyle" Ammons. 

This list continually confounds and baffles. 

Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:22 PM, "C. G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Ammons, like may other Americans, has been misled into thinking that slavery in America was a matter of race relations (black people and white people) rather than capitalism (owners and workers).
> 
> "Probably a majority of American historians think of slavery in the United States as primarily a system of race relations — as though the chief business of slavery were the production of white supremacy rather than the production of cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco. One historian has gone so far as to call slavery ‘the ultimate segregator’. He does not ask why Europeans seeking the ‘ultimate’ method of segregating Africans would go to the trouble and expense of transporting them across the ocean for that purpose, when they could have achieved the same end so much more simply by leaving the Africans in Africa.
> 
> "No one dreams of analyzing the struggle of the English against the Irish as a problem in race relations, even though the rationale that the English developed for suppressing the ‘barbarous’ Irish later served nearly word for word as a rationale for suppressing Africans and indigenous American Indians. Nor does anyone dream of analyzing serfdom in Russia as primarily a problem of race relations, even though the Russian nobility invented fictions of their innate, natural superiority over the serfs as preposterous as any devised by American racists." [B. J. Fields]
> 
> See now "How Race Is Conjured: The fiction of race hides the real source of racism and inequity in America today," by Barbara J. Fields & Karen E. Fields, Jacobin 6.29.15
> 
> This misleading - sometimes innocent but often not - protects capitalism from criticism by directing that criticism to racial prejudice (which itself should be distinguished from racism properly speaking, which is a matter of law, as in apartheid South Africa or Israel). Racism existed in the Virginia of my youth, but the laws were changed (see the current film “Loving”). Racial prejudice still exists there - but racism as a legal structure doesn’t.
> 
> --CGE
> 
> 
>> On 2016-12-24 16:41, Mildred O'brien wrote:
>> I don't know if other people attending the Urbana City Council meeting
>> after the passage of the Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance were
>> listening and offended as I was by remarks of Council person Ammons
>> who lectured "descendants of immigrants" who (supposedly) enslaved his
>> ancestors but now petitioned on behalf of undocumented immigrants.  I
>> was astonished by such language at the time but thought perhaps I had
>> not heard what I thought I heard.  Today on WEFT I heard a replay of
>> the Council proceedings of December 19 after the passage of the
>> Ordinance which confirmed my recollection of his words, which blamed
>> [white] immigrants in general for  enslaving his people.
>> It is not been historically established that more than 10 - 15% of
>> Colonials were responsible for the importation and exploitation of
>> slave labor.  Realistically, servitude of black or white enforced
>> labor was not economically feasible for the majority of landless
>> immigrants to America who were destitute or themselves enslaved
>> (Caucasians for 7 to 10 years or more, Africans for life) but was
>> restricted to wealthy Europeans primarily from England. My own
>> paternal ancestor immigrant was kidnapped from Ireland in 1698 at
>> twelve years of age and transplanted to work for a wealthy Englishman
>> in tobacco fields of Maryland until the age of 21.
>> It is not helpful for contemporary descendants of perceived past
>> aggrievances to tar people of good intentions with presumably
>> inherited guilt for which they had no responsibility, but to work in
>> harmony to prevent repetition of transgressions.
>> Midge O'Brien
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec 25 14:59:39 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 08:59:39 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Cumbie-Drake|D. Moines Reg.: UN vote provides momentum to
 eliminate nuclear weapons
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSuaThS9-OpHxsGUEDomNoN3VjK3KZhavA5nTh0WjoNzA@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/
iowa-view/2016/12/22/un-vote-provides-momentum-eliminate-
nuclear-weapons/95754288/



U.N. vote provides momentum to eliminate nuclear weapons

Claire Cumbie-Drake
Iowa View contributor
5:01 p.m. CST December 22, 2016



*Claire Cumbie-Drake is a Des Moines attorney in private practice with a
background in public health administration.*



This past October I had the extraordinary opportunity to participate in a
lobbying effort at the United Nations during committee debates on
disarmament and international security.  Our lobbying efforts, with
Physicians for Social Responsibility and a coalition of other
non-governmental organizations, focused on a proposed resolution to
commence negotiations in 2017 on a new international treaty to ban nuclear
weapons, similar to existing treaties that ban all chemical and biological
weapons.



The resolution is co-sponsored by more than 40 of the 193 member nations
and is the culmination of a multi-year effort to examine recent scientific
findings regarding the humanitarian consequences of a nuclear exchange. A
letter authored by six Nobel Peace Prize Laureates states that “even a
limited nuclear war, involving less than 0.05 percent of the world’s
nuclear arsenals, would cause catastrophic climate disruption across the
planet and lead to a global famine that could put up to 2 billion people at
risk of starvation.  Other data shows that a large-scale war between the
U.S. and Russia would cause even more profound climate disruption,
producing a nuclear winter that would kill the vast majority of the human
race and could cause our extinction as a species.”



On April 5, 2009, President Barack Obama stood in Hradcany Square in
Prague, Czech Republic, and stated:  “As a nuclear power, as the only
nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon, the United States has a moral
responsibility to act. We cannot succeed in this endeavor alone, but we can
lead it, we can start it.  So today, I state clearly and with conviction
America's commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without
nuclear weapons.”



Contrary to the official position of the U.S., as stated by President
Obama, the United States U.N. delegation used the rationale of deterrence
and national security to stand in strong opposition to the nuclear ban
resolution. The U.S. and other nuclear powers have failed to follow their
obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to move towards the
elimination of their nuclear arsenals. In the weeks leading up to the
election, Donald Trump stated he would not take the use of nuclear weapons
off the table.



All of the non-nuclear nations who signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation
Treaty, except North Korea, have followed their treaty obligation not to
develop nuclear weapons.  Among the U.N. delegations with whom we had
contact, widespread international support for the complete elimination of
nuclear weapons was evident.  These nations are committed to a world
without nuclear weapons and to putting pressure on the nuclear powers to
explicitly prohibit the acquisition, possession, stockpiling, development,
testing, and production of nuclear weapons.



On Oct. 27, the resolution to commence negotiations for a nuclear ban
treaty passed the U.N. First Committee by a 64 percent majority. IT will
proceed to the General Assembly for a vote as soon as Friday. As the Nobel
Laureates stated in their recent letter, the ban treaty "will create a
powerful new norm about nuclear weapons, defining them not as the status
symbols of great nations, but as the badges of shame of rogue nations.”



Congress has approved the expenditure of $348 billion over the next decade
(that’s $34.8 billion per year or about $2.9 billion per month) to
"modernize" our nuclear arsenal. These same taxpayer dollars that could be
spent for health care, education, renewable energy, and job-creating
infrastructure projects — endeavors that truly make us strong and secure as
individuals and as a nation.



The threat of nuclear war is not a subject most of us care to dwell on,
especially when it seems we have no power or vehicle for making change.  As
Obama stated in his Prague address: “Such fatalism is a deadly adversary,
for if we believe that the spread of nuclear weapons is inevitable, then in
some way we are admitting to ourselves that the use of nuclear weapons is
inevitable.”



Assuming the treaty negotiations move forward, we have a new vehicle to
move toward a more secure world without nuclear weapons. The people of the
United States must seize this historic moment to raise our voices and
create the political will to lead the way in negotiating for a complete
elimination of nuclear weapons.


===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From davegreen84 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 25 19:32:24 2016
From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com (David Green)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 19:32:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Kyle Ammons' remarks after Passage
	of	UrbanaSanctuary City
In-Reply-To: <337BB3B8-531C-4334-A4BB-EBFF855D0636@gmail.com>
References: <15932ff5637-10c8-20a6d@webprd-a14.mail.aol.com>
 <12bc5badd1f6e6f02b7c6e882e4602a1@shout.net>
 <337BB3B8-531C-4334-A4BB-EBFF855D0636@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1501313035.213629.1482694344812@mail.yahoo.com>

I listened to the Ammons's WEFT program yesterday morning, and was left as nonplussed as Midge. Positive reflections on Ron Karenga's black nationalism, who opposed the Black Panther Party, are problematic. The related promotion of local "black capitalism" can hardly, in my view, be understood as challenging structural racism in any meaningful way. I was interested in some of the knowledgeable comments of Craig Walker about how housing/project developers operate in our community. But all of this seems to me a scattershot approach to an issue as fundamental as universal affordable housing, so desperately needed among what has become a majority of the population of all racial/ethnic backgrounds.
DG 

    On Sunday, December 25, 2016 7:07 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
 
 

 One hardly knows where to begin, other than correcting the subject line wherein Alderman Aaron Ammons is misidentified as "Kyle" Ammons. 

This list continually confounds and baffles. 

Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 10:22 PM, "C. G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Ammons, like may other Americans, has been misled into thinking that slavery in America was a matter of race relations (black people and white people) rather than capitalism (owners and workers).
> 
> "Probably a majority of American historians think of slavery in the United States as primarily a system of race relations — as though the chief business of slavery were the production of white supremacy rather than the production of cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco. One historian has gone so far as to call slavery ‘the ultimate segregator’. He does not ask why Europeans seeking the ‘ultimate’ method of segregating Africans would go to the trouble and expense of transporting them across the ocean for that purpose, when they could have achieved the same end so much more simply by leaving the Africans in Africa.
> 
> "No one dreams of analyzing the struggle of the English against the Irish as a problem in race relations, even though the rationale that the English developed for suppressing the ‘barbarous’ Irish later served nearly word for word as a rationale for suppressing Africans and indigenous American Indians. Nor does anyone dream of analyzing serfdom in Russia as primarily a problem of race relations, even though the Russian nobility invented fictions of their innate, natural superiority over the serfs as preposterous as any devised by American racists." [B. J. Fields]
> 
> See now "How Race Is Conjured: The fiction of race hides the real source of racism and inequity in America today," by Barbara J. Fields & Karen E. Fields, Jacobin 6.29.15
> 
> This misleading - sometimes innocent but often not - protects capitalism from criticism by directing that criticism to racial prejudice (which itself should be distinguished from racism properly speaking, which is a matter of law, as in apartheid South Africa or Israel). Racism existed in the Virginia of my youth, but the laws were changed (see the current film “Loving”). Racial prejudice still exists there - but racism as a legal structure doesn’t.
> 
> --CGE
> 
> 
>> On 2016-12-24 16:41, Mildred O'brien wrote:
>> I don't know if other people attending the Urbana City Council meeting
>> after the passage of the Urbana Sanctuary City Ordinance were
>> listening and offended as I was by remarks of Council person Ammons
>> who lectured "descendants of immigrants" who (supposedly) enslaved his
>> ancestors but now petitioned on behalf of undocumented immigrants.  I
>> was astonished by such language at the time but thought perhaps I had
>> not heard what I thought I heard.  Today on WEFT I heard a replay of
>> the Council proceedings of December 19 after the passage of the
>> Ordinance which confirmed my recollection of his words, which blamed
>> [white] immigrants in general for  enslaving his people.
>> It is not been historically established that more than 10 - 15% of
>> Colonials were responsible for the importation and exploitation of
>> slave labor.  Realistically, servitude of black or white enforced
>> labor was not economically feasible for the majority of landless
>> immigrants to America who were destitute or themselves enslaved
>> (Caucasians for 7 to 10 years or more, Africans for life) but was
>> restricted to wealthy Europeans primarily from England. My own
>> paternal ancestor immigrant was kidnapped from Ireland in 1698 at
>> twelve years of age and transplanted to work for a wealthy Englishman
>> in tobacco fields of Maryland until the age of 21.
>> It is not helpful for contemporary descendants of perceived past
>> aggrievances to tar people of good intentions with presumably
>> inherited guilt for which they had no responsibility, but to work in
>> harmony to prevent repetition of transgressions.
>> Midge O'Brien
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss


 
   
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sun Dec 25 22:28:02 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2016 16:28:02 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Gush Shalom: An international consensus - settlements are
	illegal and harmful
Message-ID: <CALMNhNRh-vKEB+=80FxMnqLmxv5pF6dn2pKWFY07wp32isnepA@mail.gmail.com>

*Gush Shalom: An international consensus  - settlements are illegal and
harmful*



*At the Security Council, a rare international consensus was achieved.  It
was  clearly and unequivocally resolved that the establishment of
settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories is an impermissible
act, contrary to International Law,  and that the State of Israel must
cease immediately and completely construction and expansion of settlements.
The resolution was adopted by the votes of all Security Council Members,
represent all parts of the Earth, First World and Third World alike -
Europe and North America, South America and Africa and Asia, as well as
Australia and New Zealand (which itself shared in presenting the resolution
to the vote). There was not a single country in the entire world to speak
in favor of continuing the settlement enterprise and theft of Palestinian
lands.*



*The achievement of this consensus was made possible thanks to President
Obama's decision to cease the policy of automatic veto. It was this
automatic veto which had led the Government of Israel to live in a virtual
reality and continue plunging us deeper into the abyss of occupation,
oppression and the eternal conflict with the Palestinians. It is well Obama
broke the veto policy, even if at his last moment in office.*



*As is well known, within a month Donald Trump is about to enter the White
House. Trump’s strident voice on the subject of the settlements was already
heard out of the mouth of the manifestly undiplomatic Ambassador to Israel
which he appointed. The Israeli cabinet ministers who act as if the Messiah
has come would be well-advised to be more cautious. Linking up the future
of the State of Israel to a man who by all indications will be one of the
most controversial presidents in US history is a short-sighted and highly
dangerous policy. Trump will come, cause damage and disappear. Israel will
remain facing the worldwide opposition to the settlements.*



*Full text of the resolution*

*Contact: Adam Keller, Gush Shalom +972-(0)54-2340749 <+972%2054-234-0749>*







*The full text of the United Nations anti-settlement resolution*

24/12/16



*14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States
Abstains*



“The Security Council,

“Reaffirming its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967),
338 (1973), 446 (1979), 452 (1979), 465 (1980), 476 (1980), 478 (1980),
1397 (2002), 1515 (2003), and 1850 (2008),

“Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United
Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the
acquisition of territory by force,

“Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide
scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth
Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of
War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9
July 2004 by the International Court of Justice,

“Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition,
character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967,
including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and
expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of
land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in
violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,

“Expressing grave concern that continuing Israeli settlement activities are
dangerously imperilling the viability of the two-State solution based on
the 1967 lines,

“Recalling the obligation under the Quartet Roadmap, endorsed by its
resolution 1515 (2003), for a freeze by Israel of all settlement activity,
including “natural growth”, and the dismantlement of all settlement
outposts erected since March 2001,

“Recalling also the obligation under the Quartet roadmap for the
Palestinian Authority Security Forces to maintain effective operations
aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantling terrorist
capabilities, including the confiscation of illegal weapons,

“Condemning all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of
terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement and destruction,

“Reiterating its vision of a region where two democratic States, Israel and
Palestine, live side by side in peace within secure and recognized borders,

“Stressing that the status quo is not sustainable and that significant
steps, consistent with the transition contemplated by prior agreements, are
urgently needed in order to (i) stabilize the situation and to reverse
negative trends on the ground, which are steadily eroding the two-State
solution and entrenching a one-State reality, and (ii) to create the
conditions for successful final status negotiations and for advancing the
two-State solution through those negotiations and on the ground,

“1. Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the
Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no
legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law
and a major obstacle to the achievement of the two-State solution and a
just, lasting and comprehensive peace;

“2. Reiterates its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all
settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East
Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in this
regard;

“3. Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967
lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the
parties through negotiations;

“4. Stresses that the cessation of all Israeli settlement activities is
essential for salvaging the two-State solution, and calls for affirmative
steps to be taken immediately to reverse the negative trends on the ground
that are imperilling the two-State solution;

“5. Calls upon all States, bearing in mind paragraph 1 of this resolution,
to distinguish, in their relevant dealings, between the territory of the
State of Israel and the territories occupied since 1967;

“6. Calls for immediate steps to prevent all acts of violence against
civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation and
destruction, calls for accountability in this regard, and calls for
compliance with obligations under international law for the strengthening
of ongoing efforts to combat terrorism, including through existing security
coordination, and to clearly condemn all acts of terrorism;

“7. Calls upon both parties to act on the basis of international law,
including international humanitarian law, and their previous agreements and
obligations, to observe calm and restraint, and to refrain from provocative
actions, incitement and inflammatory rhetoric, with the aim, inter alia, of
de-escalating the situation on the ground, rebuilding trust and confidence,
demonstrating through policies and actions a genuine commitment to the
two-State solution, and creating the conditions necessary for promoting
peace;

“8. Calls upon all parties to continue, in the interest of the promotion of
peace and security, to exert collective efforts to launch credible
negotiations on all final status issues in the Middle East peace process
and within the time frame specified by the Quartet in its statement of 21
September 2010;

“9. Urges in this regard the intensification and acceleration of
international and regional diplomatic efforts and support aimed at
achieving, without delay a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the
Middle East on the basis of the relevant United Nations resolutions, the
Madrid terms of reference, including the principle of land for peace, the
Arab Peace Initiative and the Quartet Roadmap and an end to the Israeli
occupation that began in 1967; and underscores in this regard the
importance of the ongoing efforts to advance the Arab Peace Initiative, the
initiative of France for the convening of an international peace
conference, the recent efforts of the Quartet, as well as the efforts of
Egypt and the Russian Federation;

“10. Confirms its determination to support the parties throughout the
negotiations and in the implementation of an agreement;

“11. Reaffirms its determination to examine practical ways and means to
secure the full implementation of its relevant resolutions;

“12. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council every three
months on the implementation of the provisions of the present resolution;

“13. Decides to remain seized of the matter.”
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Mon Dec 26 14:21:25 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2016 08:21:25 -0600
Subject: [Peace] =?utf-8?q?Haaretz=3A_Israel_Fears_Diplomatic_Whirlwind_Lo?=
	=?utf-8?q?oming_in_President_Obama=E2=80=99s_Final_Days?=
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTC96wBw+=eQkz38cJfN+_f+atpuNEi_Vt-Qj3V0GdW6w@mail.gmail.com>

http://forward.com/news/358327/israel-fears-diplomatic-whirlwind-looming-in-
president-obamas-final-days/


Israel Fears Diplomatic Whirlwind Looming in President Obama’s Final Days

Barak Ravid (Haaretz)
December 26, 2016

Israel fears that the United States and France want to advance another move
on the Israeli-Palestinian issue before President Obama leaves office on
January 20.

A senior official in Jerusalem said that during Sunday’s security cabinet
meeting, ministers were presented with an assessment that during the
international foreign ministers’ meeting scheduled for January 15 in Paris
as part of the French peace initiative, a series of decisions on the peace
process will be made. These will immediately be brought to the UN Security
Council for a vote and will be adopted there before January 20.

The move presented to the ministers led Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
to tell the Likud ministers during their subsequent meeting that Friday’s
vote in the Security Council on the settlements was not the end of the
story and that there are liable to be other steps taken by the
international community, the official added.

Representatives of the Foreign Ministry, the National Security Council and
others who attended the security cabinet meeting presented information
indicating that the trend in talks between France, the U.S. and other
countries in preparation for the foreign ministers’ meeting tended toward
advancing such a move, he added.

According to the information that Israel has, U.S. Secretary of State John
Kerry wants to utilize the foreign ministers’ parley, which will be
attended by representatives of dozens of countries, to deliver an address
that presents his vision for the two-state solution. The senior official
said that Israel fears this address will include American principles for
resolving the core issues of borders, refugees, security arrangements and
Jerusalem.

“The Foreign Ministry and the National Security Council spoke about
information to the effect that what is planned is that the foreign
ministers’ meeting in Paris will make a summary decision that will be
adopted by the Quartet [on the Middle East] and by the UN Security Council
before January 20,” the senior official said. “Israel believes this is an
operative plan and the assumption is that the Americans are leading it all,
together with the French.”

It was such a fear about the foreign ministers’ meeting in Paris that led
Netanyahu to instruct his ministers to avoid public statements to the media
about launching a wave of settlement construction or annexing parts of the
West Bank in response to Friday’s Security Council resolution.


“The effort now is to see how to prevent such a move at the Paris
conference,” the senior official said. “That’s why there is no need to
provoke and no need to do anything to add fuel to this.”


Earlier on Sunday, Netanyahu summoned the American ambassador to Israel to
clarify matters over the UN Security Council resolution condemning Israeli
settlements. Netanyahu has also stepped up the diplomatic response to the
UN vote and ordered the government to reduce ties with the 12 countries
that supported the resolution.



===


Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Mon Dec 26 18:55:00 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2016 12:55:00 -0600
Subject: [Peace] JFP alert: Congress: Defend #Senegal & #NewZealand UN vote
	against settlements
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQe5_qJ5g2wtS9cYLpxeoXu+yHYP3tAFQo2FLj4FF3NGg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Just Foreign Policy <info at justforeignpolicy.org>
Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 12:49 PM
Subject: Congress: Defend #Senegal & #NewZealand UN vote against settlements
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


[image: Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=dEaEsw6ZVbOZPIbJKs6pVYez%2BpU1Utud>

Dear Robert,

Urge Congress and President Obama to defend Senegal's and New Zealand's
votes on the UN settlement resolution.
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2i5gCx3P8dbBkwi7kx0qIez%2BpU1Utud>

On December 23, the UN Security Council adopted a *historic resolution
against settlement colonies in the Palestinian West Bank*. The vote was
14-0, with the US abstaining. US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power said
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=F0rkCUfHp%2FB9DvCyN7loKYez%2BpU1Utud>
following the vote: "Today the Security Council reaffirmed its established
consensus that the settlements have no legal validity."

Bibi Netanyahu retaliated for the vote by recalling ambassadors from New
Zealand and Senegal, and by ending all aid programs for Senegal
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=aIPci7U%2FHpHJHuZl0mYouYez%2BpU1Utud>
.

*Urge President Obama and Congress to stand with New Zealand and Senegal by
signing our petition at MoveOn
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Tv4sGLwyYESGdX1snD2%2Bpoez%2BpU1Utud>.*

Thanks for all you do to help make U.S. foreign policy more just,

Robert Naiman, Avram Reisman, and Sarah Burns
Just Foreign Policy


*Help support our work! * If you think our work is important, support us
with a $15 donation.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=97sNTYFd6S9m0WKlOA%2B%2Bloez%2BpU1Utud>

[image: Please support our work. Donate for a Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=xZSBAqAIjG%2FZBj3bV6Rh6Yez%2BpU1Utud>

© 2016 Just Foreign Policy
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Tue Dec 27 21:36:44 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:36:44 -0600
Subject: [Peace] at MoveOn: Obama,
	Congress: Support the UNGA Treaty to Ban Nuclear Weapons
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTYrzV2hd4ETXS-3ONY3fvBKzXy4wsTDHcUj=++VXtpkg@mail.gmail.com>

There seems to be something of a U.S. news blackout on the UN General
Assembly vote on December 23. Here's our effort to address that.

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/obama-congress-support?r_by=1135580

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 12:13:01 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 06:13:01 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Mark LeVine | Tikkun: Why UNSC Res 2334 Matters a Lot More
	Than We Think
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTuW5eE-jw+t4VnX1cMYq3SEhRoffJx5Q+iiVP9S1Za7A@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/why-security-council-
resolution-2334-matters-a-lot-more-than-we-think



*[image: Tikkun]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=9fn%2FE5dBXVr1vj38aZLXrA7n%2BYI9HnBE>*



Editor's note: Few Americans are informed about the degree of distortions
in Israeli life and repression of Palestinian rights inevitably accompany
the Occupation of the West Bank, that are the background for the U.N.
Security Council resolution passed last week which made clear that Israeli
settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law.  Here are
a few headlines for one typical day (December 27, 2016) from the Israeli
newspaper Ha'aretz: "Israel Wrecks 18 Palestinian Structures for Every One
It Licenses in West Bank's Area C"; "Israel Education Minister Yair Lapid *(ed
note: from the 'centrist' Yesh Atid party) *promotes bill that would ban
anti-Occupation group  from Israeli schools  *(ed note: group is called
Break the Silence--a group of former Israeli soldiers who tell stories of
what they had been ordered to do while enforcing the Occupation of the West
Bank and the invasions of Gaza by the IDF); *and an editorial entitled
"Trump and Netanyahu: An Alliance of Bullies"* (referencing in part
Netanyahu's threats to punish countries that voted for the U.N. resolution)*.
Please read Tikkun magazine's contributing editor Mark LeVine whose
analysis (below) of why the U.N. vote last week has greater importance than
the U.S. media has yet to acknowledge should be widely circulated--so
please do so. --Rabbi Michael Lerner  RabbiLerner.Tikkun at gmail.com
Why Security Council Resolution 2334 Matters a Lot More Than We Think

*by Mark LeVine*

*Mark LeVine is professor of history at UC Irvine, distinguished visiting
professor at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies, Lund University, a
contributing editor at *Tikkun*, and author of numerous books, including
the just published *Struggle and Survival in Palestine/Israel*, co-edited
with Gershon Shafir (UC Press).*

Those who long ago succumbed to cynicism and hopelessness when it comes to
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can find many reasons to discount the
importance of Security Council Resolution 2334, passed unanimously (14-0
with the U.S. as the only abstention) on December 23. It is certainly true
that Israel will ignore and indeed work actively to undermine the
Resolution just as it has ignored innumerable other resolutions demanding a
halt to settlement construction or expansion. As one activist tweeted
shortly after its passage, in all likelihood Israel will expand the seizure
of Palestinian land and construction of settlements just to thumb its nose
at the UN (and the departing President Obama) and to demonstrate the
irrelevance of the UN when it comes to the Occupation.

Observers looking for historical precedent will find it in the many other
Security Council and General Assembly resolutions that Israel has ignored
over the decades. As many journalists have pointed out, Obama has had the
worst record of any recent President when it comes to Security Council
resolutions criticizing Israel, vetoing every one that was put for a vote
until last week. In contrast, George W. Bush and his father allowed six and
eleven, respectively, to pass.

It is also true — as those who want to end this most horrible year on the
least optimistic note can point to — that the Resolution is grounded in
Chapter VI rather than Chapter VII of the UN Charter, meaning that it has
no enforcement mechanism (from sanctions to the use of force) to compel
Israel to implement it, but rather can only press for negotiations towards
that end.

Nonetheless, I think it is both unfair and inaccurate to consider the
resolution “toothless,” as many critics are labeling it. There are several
reasons why it in fact has some very deep teeth, if they haven’t been that
exposed yet. Some of these teeth are contained in the Resolution itself,
which once and for all puts to the lie any possible Israeli claim that it
has the legal right to indefinitely occupy, never mind build settlements
upon, any square meter of the territory it conquered in 1967. Specifically,
Article 1 of the Resolution’s text (crucially not part of the preamble,
which has less direct legal force) “reaffirms that the establishment by
Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967,
including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant
violation under international law and a major obstacle to the achievement
of the two-State solution and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace.”

This serves two purposes. First, by “reaffirming” the illegality of the
entire settlement enterprise it reminds Israel that it has long been told
that the settlements are illegal; thus its half-century policy of creating
“facts on the ground” as a way to normalize the Occupation and the
settlement enterprise it has always been intended to support, has been for
nothing. This statement will no doubt give impetus to the International
Criminal Court’s ongoing investigation of whether it should take up the
Palestinian call to rule on the settlements. While a Chapter VI-based
resolution doesn’t have enforcement mechanisms, it does have powerful legal
validity, serving essentially as a judgment of international law in the
same way a Supreme Court decision decides on the ultimate constitutionality
of an American law. The settlements have now been unequivocally defined as
illegal by the highest authority on earth when it comes to defining and
making international law.

The settlement enterprise is the heart and raison d’etre of the Occupation,
which exists to perpetuate it. So in judging the entire enterprise to be
illegal the Security Council is, in theory, declaring that the Occupation
built around it is also inherently a violation of international law. This
opens Israel up to further potential prosecution for crimes committed in
the pursuance of the Occupation.

To be sure, no one imagines Israel will simply pull up stakes and uproot
over half a million settlers, especially in East Jerusalem and the main
settlement blocks. But the Resolution does hand a huge amount of
negotiating leverage to Palestinians—more in fact than they have ever
had—if and when final status negotiations begin, and the mandating of
tri-monthly reports by the Security General on Israel’s implementation—or
more likely, lack thereof—of its terms will keep the pressure publicly and
diplomatically on the Israeli government and strengthen calls to bring the
ICC and ICJ into the mix.

More directly, since the entirety of the settlements are illegal (the third
clause continues that the Council “will not recognize any changes to the 4
June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those
agreed by the parties through negotiations”), Israel will have to pay a far
higher price in land swaps or other negotiating positions in order to
expect Palestinians to relinquish what have now been clearly recognized
legally as their territory. Suddenly, shared sovereignty in East Jerusalem
and even a larger number of refugees allowed into Israel proper would seem
to be possible in any plausible peace deal.

In “reiterat[ing] its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease
all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including
East Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in
this regard,” the second clause has used the most forceful language
possible. The Security Council could merely have “called upon” or used
similarly less compulsory language. Instead it has demanded an immediate
and complete halt not only in construction, but “activities.” Resolution
2334 might not have built-in mechanisms to enforce it, but it’s clearly far
more than a “recommendation” to Israel, as those who believe Chapter VI
resolutions have no binding authority or enforcement power would have us
believe (as one colleague who specializes in international law put it to
me, “With no enforcement mechanisms it’s largely symbolic. [At best] one
step forwards, two steps back”).

Since Israel has already declared its refusal to comply with UNSCR 2334,
the stage is now set for an ICJ and/or ICC option and decision that would
further place Israel in criminal violation of international law. Moreover,
there is little doubt these two bodies will fail to rule on the systematic
war crimes committed by Israel (and also, quite likely, by Hamas), which in
their routinization and constant repetition have reached the level of
crimes against humanity. It is quite conceivable that the actions of senior
Israeli leaders, and of Hamas as well, could be determined to be war crimes
by the ICJ, and/or various officials indicted for them by the ICC, with
far-reaching and extremely positive ramifications for ordinary Palestinians
and Israelis alike.

Moreover, while the Resolution doesn’t call for immediate sanctions against
Israel, the fifth clause “calls upon all States, bearing in mind paragraph
1 of this resolution, to distinguish, in their relevant dealings, between
the territory of the State of Israel and the territories occupied since
1967.” This clearly is an invitation for boycotting any Israeli products or
services that in any way are tied to the settlements, which in turn gives
impetus by the slowly implemented EU policies to label, isolate, and
punish, if not prohibit, these products. This is not a full endorsement of
the BDS movement by any means, but it’s a huge step forward for raising
international public opinion and awareness about the settlements and will
have a major impact on their political economy.

Indeed, by “call[ing] upon both parties to act on the basis of
international law, including international humanitarian law” the seventh
clause reminds everyone that international law is still in force in the
Occupied Territories and thus ongoing violations by Israel or Hamas will
ultimately not go unpunished, even if the arc of justice remains long.

It is clear, then, that the Resolution does have teeth, even if they’re not
being immediately bared. But there is also another equally important
consequence of this Resolution, and that concerns U.S. domestic policy.
Specifically, the Resolution has shown precisely the split in the
Democratic Party and the American Jewish Community, between the true
progressives who will be the backbone of any resurgent populist party that
can speak to the concerns of the millions of voters who put Trump into
power, and those of the corporate elite, epitomized by Chuck Schumer and
Hillary Clinton and the entire establishment behind the presidential
election catastrophe, who are the main reason for this present sorry state.

We can expect the “Amen corner” of the Republican Party to go nuclear over
even the slightest criticism of Israel, just as we can expect the Jewish
establishment to do (as the ZOA’s Morton Klein put it, “Obama has made it
clear that he’s a Jew hating, anti-Semite”). What we see with the support
by Bernie Sanders and progressive Democrats for the Resolution, and by the
rising tide of truly progressive Jewish organizations such as Jewish Voice
for Peace, IfNotNow, and even J Street — and of course, *Tikkun* and its
related communities— is that uncritical, over-the-top support for Israeli
colonialism squares quite well with support for neoliberal, ultimately
anti-poor, and racist policies among Democrats.

   - In other words, the growing bonds between progressive Jews and the
   Movement for Black Lives, the Palestine solidarity movement, Native
   Americans as epitomized by Standing Rock, and for other movements grounded
   in the ongoing oppression of people of various colors other than
   (politically and economically) white is clearly going to divide the Jewish
   community—hopefully permanently—between those who support a Judaism based
   on the prophetic principles of righteous anger, justice, and compassion and
   those who support the idolatrous Judaism of money, power, and settlements
   (as Rabbi Michael Lerner has long and presciently described them in the
   pages of *Tikkun* magazine as well as in books such as *Jewish Renewal *
   and *Embracing Israel/Palestine*).


   - What this means is that the emerging generation of progressive Jews no
   longer has to choose between progressive values on the one hand, and the
   Jewish community establishment and Israel on the other. The establishment
   has made the choice for them, and as we’ve seen with the emergence of
   groups like Open Hillel, the new generation will not fall into the
   pro-Occupation line. The coalition of the future, the one that will not
   only heal American Judaism (and ultimately, Israeli Judaism as well), but
   help restore a progressive politics against the chauvinism and fascism of
   Trump and his minions, is now clear and is for once the same on both the
   domestic and foreign policy arenas.
   -
   - Security Council Resolution 2334 makes one final point to the world,
   which has implications far beyond Israel/Palestine: Human rights and
   international law can still matter — if they’re allowed to function as they
   were intended. One of the great tragedies of the postwar era has been the
   architecture of the UN Security Council, which included a veto for the five
   permanent members of the Security Council that has been abused horrifically
   by all of them in order to enable themselves and/or their allies and
   clients to get away with literally mass murder and crimes against humanity
   (whether it’s been the U.S. murdering three million Southeast Asians and
   more recently the disastrous invasion of Iraq or supporting the Israeli
   Occupation, or Russia’s ruinous wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya and now
   direct participation in the slaughter in Syria). Unfortunately, the veto
   power of the P5 can only be ended by a vote by the Security Council, which
   naturally the P5 would have no interest in passing.
   -
   - The only hope would be to apply so much pressure from the General
   Assembly on the major powers that they feel compelled to allow a change to
   the P5 veto (either necessitating more than one “no” vote by a permanent
   member or getting rid of it entirely) as part of the inevitable expansion
   of the permanent membership of the Council to include major emerging powers
   like India, Brazil, Indonesia, and/or South Africa. Such a change in the
   architecture of the Security Council would be the single most important
   event in diplomatic history since the creation of the United Nations, for
   it would finally force every country on earth equally to face the
   consequences of their actions before international law. Israel’s panic at
   this latest Resolution has shown us a glimpse of what a future would be
   like when those who’ve for so long been held unaccountable to international
   law suddenly feel themselves potentially slipping into its grasp. As the
   Putin-Trump era begins to unfold, the countries of the world would be wise
   to consider forcing the UN to give the rest of us a fighting chance before
   it’s too late.
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 13:24:45 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 07:24:45 -0600
Subject: [Peace] CNN: Jerusalem cancels vote on settlement construction
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTA33=VCq1RR_d57-fdzRszB675hsUhhtuTWC3LxhdHqg@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe international pressure on the Israeli government works, after all.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/28/middleeast/jerusalem-settlemen
ts-vote/index.html

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 19:45:27 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:45:27 -0500
Subject: [Peace] T'ruah Statement on UN Security Council Resolution
Message-ID: <CALMNhNRMb=xkGHsAj3RCNZaFGbB0ZMY43pdXUJs330Ny8yiiXg@mail.gmail.com>

http://truah.org/13-issuescampaigns/supportpeace/805-t-ruah-statement-on-un-
security-council-resolution.html

T'ruah Statement on UN Security Council Resolution
<http://truah.org/13-issuescampaigns/supportpeace/805-t-ruah-statement-on-un-security-council-resolution.html>

December 26, 2016

תניא, רבי אומר: איזו היא דרך ישרה שיבור לו האדם - יאהב את התוכחות, שכל זמן
שתוכחות בעולם - נחת רוח באה לעולם, טובה וברכה באין לעולם,ורעה מסתלקת מן
העולם



Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said, “What is the correct path that a person should
choose? Love tokhecha (rebuke/correction), for as long as there is rebuke
in the world, comfort comes to the world, good and blessing come to the
world, and evil departs from the world.”—Talmud Tamid 28a



Over the past few days, we have heard significant pain and anger from the
Jewish community and from the State of Israel regarding the recent UN
Security Council Resolution and the decision by the United States to
abstain, thus permitting it to move forward. It is true that the UN has a
history of paying disproportionate attention to Israel. In the past, T’ruah
has spoken up against problematic resolutions, including the UNESCO
resolution this fall that ignored the Jewish historical connection to
Jerusalem and to our holiest sites there.



In this case, however, the tokhecha contained within this resolution simply
reflects decades of U.S. and international policy that affirms the goal of “two
democratic States, Israel and Palestine, liv[ing] side by side in peace
within secure and recognized borders,” and decries settlements as an
obstacle to achieving this vision. We encourage those concerned about this
resolution to read it in full before responding.



T’ruah has long advocated for an end to occupation, which violates the
human rights of Palestinians while threatening the safety and security of
Israelis. The expansion of settlements involves land theft, as well as the
blocking of access to land and of freedom of movement for Palestinians.
Within Area C of the West Bank, where the settlements sit, Palestinians and
Israeli citizens living side-by-side are governed by two different systems
of law, in contradiction of international law and of the biblical
principle, “You shall have one law for citizens and strangers alike.”
(Leviticus 24:22)



The settlements and the entrenched occupation also threaten the well-being
of Israelis, including those soldiers who risk their lives to defend an
ill-fated policy; the Israelis who see their tax dollars diverted from
needed health, education, and welfare programs in order to allocate
disproportionate funding to those living in settlements; and Israelis and
Jews around the world who face increasing isolation as a result of the
policy of occupation. No less a figure than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef ruled that
the return of territory may be permitted--or even obligatory—for the sake
of pikuach nefesh—saving life.



Despite accusations that the resolution is one-sided, we welcome the call
to the Palestinian Authority for “confronting all those engaged in terror
and dismantling terrorist capabilities, including the confiscation of
illegal weapons” and the condemnation of “all acts of violence against
civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation,
incitement, and destruction.” T’ruah has always condemned terrorism and
rejected any claims that political aims justify violence against civilians.



The capture of East Jerusalem during the Six-Day War restored Jewish
sovereignty over our holiest sites for the first time in modern history. We
pray and work for a two-state solution that will preserve Jewish access to
these sacred sites. However, the continued policy of demolition of
Palestinian homes;  the lack of permits for Palestinians to build in the
East Jerusalem neighborhoods where they live; the expansion of settlements
in these neighborhoods, often by shady legal tactics; and the failure to
provide basic city services to East Jerusalem Palestinians living on the
wrong side of the wall that cuts through the “eternal undivided capital of
the Jewish people” simultaneously violate human rights, fly in the face of
Jewish law and values, provoke anger among the Palestinian population, and
make the goal of peace harder to achieve.



The rhetoric on the part of the Israeli government and some segments of the
Jewish community that caricatures the UNSC resolution as an erasure of
Jewish history or as a rejection of our connection to Jerusalem only blurs
the distinction between Israel and the occupied territories, and reinforces
the perception that standing up for Israel requires defending occupation.
In fact, we should celebrate the resolution’s distinction between Israel
within the Green Line and the occupied territories, and its rejection of
the one-state solution increasingly called for by many in the BDS movement.
Standing up for the future of Israel and for the safety of Israelis and
Jews around the world requires distinguishing between our commitment to
Israel and the current policy of occupation, and working toward a two-state
solution.



We affirm the call by the UNSC resolution for “all parties to continue, in
the interest of the promotion of peace and security, to exert collective
efforts to launch credible negotiations on all final status issues.” The
expansion of settlements, including so-called “natural growth” changes the
facts on the ground before territory can be negotiated. Even the areas
that, according to most maps, will end up in Israel must be negotiated as
part of a final status agreement. We also affirm the call to Palestinians
to end the terrorism and incitement that frightens Israelis from taking
bold steps toward peace, as well as rejecting “Price Tag” attacks and other
violence and incitement on the part of Jews.



Much of the Israeli and Jewish communal response to the UNSC resolution, as
well as to all tokhecha regarding settlement growth, has emphasized the
failure of Palestinians to accept past agreements, or focused on terror as
the primary obstacle to peace. While there is certainly reason to find
fault with both sides—as the UNSC resolution does—Zionism, ultimately, is
about taking our future in our own hands, rather than waiting for someone
else to determine our future. This means both accepting responsibility for
the misguided and dangerous policy of settlement expansion, and taking it
upon ourselves to do what is necessary to bring about peace.



In permitting the hotly contested peace agreement with Egypt, including
relinquishing land captured in war, Rabbi Chaim David Halevy wrote:



We have great doubts regarding this peace agreement. That is to say—it’s
possible that it will be temporary until the Arab world gathers the
strength necessary for another round.



But it’s also necessary to remember that it’s possible that it will
continue for a long time. . .Therefore, it is incumbent on us, without
considering their ultimate intentions, to cultivate this peace, and to do
whatever is in our power that it should develop and set down roots, out of
hope and faith that time will heal all wounds, and that a new generation
will rise that has not personally suffered the defeat of war and the
humiliation that follows. (Aseh L’kha Rav 4:1)



The obligation to pursue peace weighs especially heavily as we approach the
momentous fiftieth anniversary of the Six Day War. Just as the biblical yovel
year—the fiftieth year of the agricultural cycle--brought liberation and a
fresh start, we commit to using this moment to move forward toward peace, a
two-state solution, an end to occupation, and a better future for both
Israelis and Palestinians.


===


Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Wed Dec 28 20:06:59 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:06:59 -0600
Subject: [Peace] T'ruah Statement on UN Security Council Resolution
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNRMb=xkGHsAj3RCNZaFGbB0ZMY43pdXUJs330Ny8yiiXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNRMb=xkGHsAj3RCNZaFGbB0ZMY43pdXUJs330Ny8yiiXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6E4AB8A5-58A2-4282-A049-6FC384416091@illinois.edu>

We Americans should be addressing our demands to our government. Israel could not maintain the occupation without the support - military economic, political,  and diplomatic - of the US government. 

And the US does that in support of its long-term policy of controlling Mideast energy resources, as a choke-hold on economic rivals from China to Germany. Since 1967, Israel has been a ‘stationary aircraft carrier’ for American depredations in the Mideast.

We should demand that Congress and the new administration reverse the policies of the Obama administration and 
~ (1) establish a foreign policy based on diplomacy, international law, and human rights; 
~ (2) end the wars [in the Mideast and elsewhere] and stop the drone attacks; 
~ (3) cut military spending by at least 50% and close the more than 700 foreign military bases [neither Russia nor China has more than twelve]; 
~ (4) stop US support of human rights abusers [notably Israel and Saudi Arabia]; and
~ (5) lead on global nuclear disarmament. 



> On Dec 28, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> http://truah.org/13-issuescampaigns/supportpeace/805-t-ruah-statement-on-un-security-council-resolution.html
> 
> T'ruah Statement on UN Security Council Resolution
> December 26, 2016
> תניא, רבי אומר: איזו היא דרך ישרה שיבור לו האדם - יאהב את התוכחות, שכל זמן שתוכחות בעולם - נחת רוח באה לעולם, טובה וברכה באין לעולם,ורעה מסתלקת מן העולם
>  
> Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said, “What is the correct path that a person should choose? Love tokhecha (rebuke/correction), for as long as there is rebuke in the world, comfort comes to the world, good and blessing come to the world, and evil departs from the world.”—Talmud Tamid 28a
>  
> Over the past few days, we have heard significant pain and anger from the Jewish community and from the State of Israel regarding the recent UN Security Council Resolution and the decision by the United States to abstain, thus permitting it to move forward. It is true that the UN has a history of paying disproportionate attention to Israel. In the past, T’ruah has spoken up against problematic resolutions, including the UNESCO resolution this fall that ignored the Jewish historical connection to Jerusalem and to our holiest sites there. 
>  
> In this case, however, the tokhecha contained within this resolution simply reflects decades of U.S. and international policy that affirms the goal of “two democratic States, Israel and Palestine, liv[ing] side by side in peace within secure and recognized borders,” and decries settlements as an obstacle to achieving this vision. We encourage those concerned about this resolution to read it in full before responding.
>  
> T’ruah has long advocated for an end to occupation, which violates the human rights of Palestinians while threatening the safety and security of Israelis. The expansion of settlements involves land theft, as well as the blocking of access to land and of freedom of movement for Palestinians. Within Area C of the West Bank, where the settlements sit, Palestinians and Israeli citizens living side-by-side are governed by two different systems of law, in contradiction of international law and of the biblical principle, “You shall have one law for citizens and strangers alike.” (Leviticus 24:22) 
>  
> The settlements and the entrenched occupation also threaten the well-being of Israelis, including those soldiers who risk their lives to defend an ill-fated policy; the Israelis who see their tax dollars diverted from needed health, education, and welfare programs in order to allocate disproportionate funding to those living in settlements; and Israelis and Jews around the world who face increasing isolation as a result of the policy of occupation. No less a figure than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef ruled that the return of territory may be permitted--or even obligatory—for the sake of pikuach nefesh—saving life. 
>  
> Despite accusations that the resolution is one-sided, we welcome the call to the Palestinian Authority for “confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantling terrorist capabilities, including the confiscation of illegal weapons” and the condemnation of “all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement, and destruction.” T’ruah has always condemned terrorism and rejected any claims that political aims justify violence against civilians. 
>  
> The capture of East Jerusalem during the Six-Day War restored Jewish sovereignty over our holiest sites for the first time in modern history. We pray and work for a two-state solution that will preserve Jewish access to these sacred sites. However, the continued policy of demolition of Palestinian homes;  the lack of permits for Palestinians to build in the East Jerusalem neighborhoods where they live; the expansion of settlements in these neighborhoods, often by shady legal tactics; and the failure to provide basic city services to East Jerusalem Palestinians living on the wrong side of the wall that cuts through the “eternal undivided capital of the Jewish people” simultaneously violate human rights, fly in the face of Jewish law and values, provoke anger among the Palestinian population, and make the goal of peace harder to achieve. 
>  
> The rhetoric on the part of the Israeli government and some segments of the Jewish community that caricatures the UNSC resolution as an erasure of Jewish history or as a rejection of our connection to Jerusalem only blurs the distinction between Israel and the occupied territories, and reinforces the perception that standing up for Israel requires defending occupation. In fact, we should celebrate the resolution’s distinction between Israel within the Green Line and the occupied territories, and its rejection of the one-state solution increasingly called for by many in the BDS movement. Standing up for the future of Israel and for the safety of Israelis and Jews around the world requires distinguishing between our commitment to Israel and the current policy of occupation, and working toward a two-state solution.
>  
> We affirm the call by the UNSC resolution for “all parties to continue, in the interest of the promotion of peace and security, to exert collective efforts to launch credible negotiations on all final status issues.” The expansion of settlements, including so-called “natural growth” changes the facts on the ground before territory can be negotiated. Even the areas that, according to most maps, will end up in Israel must be negotiated as part of a final status agreement. We also affirm the call to Palestinians to end the terrorism and incitement that frightens Israelis from taking bold steps toward peace, as well as rejecting “Price Tag” attacks and other violence and incitement on the part of Jews. 
>  
> Much of the Israeli and Jewish communal response to the UNSC resolution, as well as to all tokhecha regarding settlement growth, has emphasized the failure of Palestinians to accept past agreements, or focused on terror as the primary obstacle to peace. While there is certainly reason to find fault with both sides—as the UNSC resolution does—Zionism, ultimately, is about taking our future in our own hands, rather than waiting for someone else to determine our future. This means both accepting responsibility for the misguided and dangerous policy of settlement expansion, and taking it upon ourselves to do what is necessary to bring about peace.
>  
> In permitting the hotly contested peace agreement with Egypt, including relinquishing land captured in war, Rabbi Chaim David Halevy wrote:
>  
> We have great doubts regarding this peace agreement. That is to say—it’s possible that it will be temporary until the Arab world gathers the strength necessary for another round.
>  
> But it’s also necessary to remember that it’s possible that it will continue for a long time. . .Therefore, it is incumbent on us, without considering their ultimate intentions, to cultivate this peace, and to do whatever is in our power that it should develop and set down roots, out of hope and faith that time will heal all wounds, and that a new generation will rise that has not personally suffered the defeat of war and the humiliation that follows. (Aseh L’kha Rav 4:1)
>  
> The obligation to pursue peace weighs especially heavily as we approach the momentous fiftieth anniversary of the Six Day War. Just as the biblical yovel year—the fiftieth year of the agricultural cycle--brought liberation and a fresh start, we commit to using this moment to move forward toward peace, a two-state solution, an end to occupation, and a better future for both Israelis and Palestinians.
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 21:42:05 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 16:42:05 -0500
Subject: [Peace] JFP alert: Warren,
	Murphy: Support diplomacy & stand up to the Russia hawks
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTBUBdUVz5qvwhJ8NopKk-UyDO41m-NJiRcY-RHQoVcNg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Just Foreign Policy <info at justforeignpolicy.org>
Date: Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 4:23 PM
Subject: Warren, Murphy: Support diplomacy & stand up to the Russia hawks
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


[image: Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=q8j0Q4KSY12ftG4WgRBjpf1NHpQzRBob>

Dear Robert,

Urge Sens. Warren & Murphy to stand up to the Russia hawks and support
diplomacy.
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=t3sG0ayuk9axhQp9xTZNw%2F1NHpQzRBob>

Sens. *Elizabeth Warren* & *Chris Murphy* will be in a strong position to
shape debate over Russia policy in the next Administration. *Elizabeth
Warren* will be
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=zcEFegKl4uS8PNUBFGickf1NHpQzRBob>
on the Senate Armed Services Committee. *Chris Murphy*, the first Senator
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=kdIBeeIKG9dikWvBhXgkrf1NHpQzRBob>
to publicly challenge the Obama Administration's support for the
devastating Saudi war in Yemen, is on the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee.

Unfortunately, *some Democrats are planning to make common cause with John
McCain & Lindsey Graham* on Russia policy, pushing for a new Cold War that
would likely *jack up the already bloated Pentagon budget* at the expense
of domestic priorities like expanding Social Security, while *undermining
prospects for de-escalation of conflicts* in Ukraine, Syria, and Yemen.

*Urge Senator Elizabeth Warren & Senator Chris Murphy to stand up for
diplomacy and against the Russia hawks by signing our petition at MoveOn
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=NOD2gQNK5j%2Frhde9vril4P1NHpQzRBob>.*

Thanks for all you do to help make U.S. foreign policy more just,

Robert Naiman, Avram Reisman, and Sarah Burns
Just Foreign Policy


*We are trying to raise $20,000 before the end of this month! *If you think
our work is important, support us with a $17 donation.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
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© 2016 Just Foreign Policy
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 22:02:36 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 17:02:36 -0500
Subject: [Peace] FMEP applauds Kerry speech on Israeli-Palestinian peace
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQCMOfiegm9dqetO-+7rtRaf20hLgwX4EcFuYtZMTVmmg@mail.gmail.com>

http://fmep.org/media/press/fmep-applauds-passage-unsc-
resolution-settlements/

FMEP applauds Kerry speech on Israeli-Palestinian peace

PRESS RELEASE
December 28, 2016

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
December 28, 2016
Matthew Duss
202-835-3650 <(202)%20835-3650>

Washington, DC: The Foundation for Middle East Peace (FMEP) applauds the
speech delivered today by Secretary of State John Kerry outlining his
vision for an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. FMEP also commends
President Barack Obama and his administration for the decision last week to
allow passage of a resolution at the United Nations Security Council
declaring Israeli settlements inconsistent with international law and
calling for freezing all settlement construction as well as an end to
incitement and attacks on civilians in the region.
Both of these are consistent with longstanding U.S. policies, supported by
Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

“Last week, the Security Council sent a powerful message from the
international community warning that continued Israeli settlement activity
is seriously jeopardizing the possibility of a two-state solution to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict,” said Matthew Duss, President of FMEP.
“Today, Secretary Kerry followed up on that message by laying out a
pragmatic vision of the components of a resolution to that conflict.
Secretary Kerry made it clear that the Israeli occupation, which is about
to hit its 50th year, is leading toward the entrenchment of a system that
is, in his words, ‘separate and unequal.’

The Foundation for Middle East Peace was founded in 1979 to promote a just
resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Foundation advances
this goal through education and advocacy, publications about the conflict,
a speakers’ program to introduce Israeli, Palestinian, and other experts to
U.S. audiences, public speaking by officers of the Foundation, and a small
grant program to support groups that advance the cause of peace in Israel
and Palestine.

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Wed Dec 28 22:17:36 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 17:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Peace] Henry Siegman | TNI: Has Obama "Betrayed" Israel at the UN?
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQnOnBczBAaM7pER+o5MS64p9X=3yQ0A9F+PQqjADepcQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/has-obama-betrayed-israel-the-un-18872[image:
The National Interest]


Has Obama "Betrayed" Israel at the UN?
<http://nationalinterest.org/feature/has-obama-betrayed-israel-the-un-18872>


*If there has been a betrayal in this latest chapter of America's relations
with Israel, it is Netanyahu who has *

*betrayed President Obama.*



December 28, 2016



Henry Siegman <http://nationalinterest.org/profile/harry-siegman>


*Henry Siegman is President Emeritus of the U.S./Middle East Project. He is
a former senior fellow on the Middle East at the Council on Foreign
Relations and formerly headed the American Jewish Congress and the
Synagogue Council of America.*

Has America’s president betrayed Israel, as Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu and members of his government bitterly accused after President
Obama failed to veto a UN Security Council resolution that condemned Israel
for its settlements in the West Bank?

True, President Obama told the international community in his address to
the UN General Assembly in 2011 that an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement
can only be achieved by the parties themselves, not by outside imposition.

Obama, a former editor of the *Harvard Law Review*, surely knows the notion
that international bodies have no role in the resolution of international
conflicts to be entirely spurious, particularly when applied to a
belligerent occupation that has been in place for half a century. It is an
argument he presumably made to provide Netanyahu more time to advance a
two-state agreement with the Palestinians without outside intervention, in
the expectation, based on Netanyahu’s previous solemn promises, that he
would do so.

Obama’s argument against outside intervention, in generous support of
Netanyahu, should have persuaded Netanyahu to halt Israel’s settlement
expansion and prove to the world that outside intervention is not necessary
to advance the peace process. Instead he doubled down on the expansion of
Israel’s settlements, proving to the world that a two-state solution will
not happen without such intervention.

Netanyahu’s “*j’accuse*” against Obama and his administration is a
concoction of the lies and deceptions that have characterized Israel’s
defense of its settlement project from the outset.

The Security Council resolution did not contain any reference whatever to
terms for a permanent status negotiation (as necessary as such provisions
actually are), and therefore did not violate President Obama’s strictures
against outside imposition of terms for an agreement. The resolution was
limited to a reconfirmation of the flagrant illegality of the settlements
in the Occupied Territories and of the changes made unilaterally by Israel
to the internationally-recognized pre-1967 border.

Netanyahu lost whatever right he might have thought he had to President
Obama’s and the world’s trust when he shamelessly and unapologetically
reversed himself and declared publicly during the last Israeli national
elections that he would not allow a Palestinian state to come into
existence as long as he is Israel’s prime minister. For good measure, he
added that he would not remove even a single Jewish settlement, no matter
how remote its location from the pre-1967 border, even though such
settlements were placed there to block the possibility of a Palestinian
state.

Netanyahu and his fellow ministers are accusing President Obama of having
violated President George W. Bush’s promise to support Israel’s retention
of certain settlement blocs adjoining the pre-1967 border. They have
claimed for some time now that President Bush’s commitment allows them to
enlarge construction in these settlement blocs to their heart’s content.

This is a bald-faced lie. Both in his letter to Prime Minister Sharon and
in his subsequent references to that letter, President Bush
<https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040414-3.html>
 said clearly that his support for Israel’s retention of certain settlement
blocs would come into play only when negotiations of the major permanent
status issues took place. In 2006, Condoleezza Rice told Israel’s foreign
minister Tzipi Livni
<https://2001-2009.state.gov/secretary/rm/2006/60746.htm>, “the President
did say that *at the time of final status* it will be necessary to take
into account new realities on the ground that have changed since 1967, but
under no circumstances… should anyone try and do that in a pre-emptive or
predetermined way, because these are issues for negotiation at final
status.” [Emphasis added]

Another lie is Netanyahu’s and his fellow ministers’ criticism of Obama for
his acceptance of a resolution that refers to Israel’s settlements as
“illegal,” instead of “illegitimate”—the euphemism Obama’s administration
has used until now.

Israel’s government knows there is no real difference between these two
terms—if settlements were legal, they would also be legitimate. They also
know that it was Israel’s legal advisor to its ministry of foreign affairs
Theodor Meron who ruled in a formal communication
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/lawpeacemideast/resources/file48485.pdf> dated
September 18, 1967, immediately following the 1967 war, that “civilian
settlement in the administered territories contravene explicit provisions
of the Fourth Geneva Convention,” and that the prohibition against such
settlements is “categorical and not conditional upon the motives of the
transfer or its objectives.”

The biggest lie of all has been Netanyahu’s claim to support a two-state
solution. His scam should have been obvious to our diplomats from the get
go. Why? Because he never presented the two-state idea for formal approval
to any of the four governments he has headed. Because the official platform
of the Likud opposes Palestinian statehood anywhere in Palestine. And
because most ministers who form Netanyahu’s government are members of a
parliamentary caucus—the largest in Israel’s Knesset—whose official mandate
is the prevention of Palestinian statehood anywhere in Palestine.

Is it not high time for Israel’s public to wake up to Netanyahu’s
deceptions? The countries that voted for this Security Council resolution
are not anti-Semitic outliers. They included every major democratic country
that belongs to the Security Council. Not one of them voted for the Zionism
is Racism resolution, to which Netanyahu so demagogically compared this
resolution. Are UK Prime Minister Theresa May or German Chancellor Angela
Merkel, whose foreign minister warmly welcomed the Security Council’s
action, anti-Semites? It was only yesterday that Netanyahu boasted of his
friendship with Russia’s Putin and China’s Xi Jinping, who voted for the
resolution. Are they now Israel’s enemies?

If there has been a betrayal in this latest chapter of America’s relations
with Israel, it is Netanyahu who has betrayed President Obama. The Obama
administration has done more than any of its predecessors to assure
Israel’s security. The tragedy is that everything that President Obama and
his predecessors have done to protect Israel’s security will have been for
naught as Netanyahu’s mad drive with the settlements towards an apartheid
regime threatens to end Israel’s existence as a democratic and Jewish
state, something its enemies could not have achieved on their own.

With President-elect Trump and his newly appointed far-right,
settlement-promoting ambassador-designate to the Jewish state cheering
Netanyahu on, that apartheid outcome is now clearly in sight.
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec 29 17:27:51 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 12:27:51 -0500
Subject: [Peace] Et tu, Brute? Chris Murphy bashes Obama, Kerry,
	UN on UNSC Res 2334
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQ=MMM=xx8sM2B6Bz6ExgiObaNsA0CCMbsL8Hv=FdVPqQ@mail.gmail.com>

I try to tell my ultra-left friends about the terrain we're dealing with on
I-P in DC. They don't want to hear it. They think I'm being a big bully for
saying they can't have unicorns and ponies.

So. Show don't tell. Exhibit 7,233. The court calls Connecticut Senator
Chris Murphy to testify. Mr. Progressive Foreign Policy. Mr.
I-want-to-be-the-Elizabeth-Warren-of-foreign-policy. To his everlasting
credit, the first Senator to say boo about the Obama Administration's
support for Saudi Arabia's catastrophic war in Yemen. Enter Chris Murphy.

Speaking to MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
member said the U.N. is “*just fundamentally not a fair forum for the
Israelis*” and that *the White House should have vetoed the Security
Council measure* condemning America’s closest ally in the Middle East.

[*my emphasis*]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/chris-murphy-barack-ob
ama-john-kerry-israel-donald-trump-233026

Chris Murphy's comment about the UN is pure sophistry, and Chris Murphy, as
a not-completely-stupid person, surely knows it. Say the Human Rights
Council is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. Say the General
Assembly is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. The *Security
Council *is not the Human Rights Council and is not the General Assembly,
and as a not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. The
United States of F*ing America has a VETO on the UN Security Council.
NOTHING HAPPENS at the UN Security Council without US permission, and as a
not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. Not to
mention the subsidiary fact that to define Britain and France and even
Russia as "anti-Israel," you have to define "anti-Israel" as "people who
insist that we eat our vegetables before we can eat our dessert." If the UK
and France are "anti-Israel," then your spouse who gently tries to suggest
that maybe you've had enough wine to drink at the party is anti-Semitic.

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From davegreen84 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 29 18:26:40 2016
From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com (David Green)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 18:26:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Peace] Et tu, Brute? Chris Murphy bashes Obama, Kerry,
 UN on UNSC Res 2334
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNQ=MMM=xx8sM2B6Bz6ExgiObaNsA0CCMbsL8Hv=FdVPqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNQ=MMM=xx8sM2B6Bz6ExgiObaNsA0CCMbsL8Hv=FdVPqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <675989440.3184929.1483036000576@mail.yahoo.com>

Bob, I get that politicians are afraid of displeasing their Zionist donors. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps I'm experiencing some end-of-the-year density.
Nevertheless, look at the comments in response to the NYT editorial, as well as the editorial itself:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/opinion/is-israel-abandoning-a-two-state-solution.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0
Sort the comments by readers picks. This signals a significant change among liberal readers of the NYT. Admittedly, it is provoked mostly by their defense of Obama and their opposition to Trump. There is a certain superficiality regarding this issue among those who have kept silent during the Obama administration; but clearly there are a lot of repressed individuals who no longer feel they have anything to lose by criticizing Israel. And ironically, with Trump coming into office in reconciliation with Russia, he is also provoking sensible and perhaps effective opposition to his prospective hardline policy on I/P, including and especially among Jews.
I can't imagine that this would have transpired with an incoming HRC administration.
Under these circumstances, it hardly seems helpful to focus on "anti-Semitism" among Trump advisors, if that's what anyone is doing, and I fear that indeed is what JVP has been doing.
Just food for thought.
DG



 

    On Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:36 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
 
 

 
I try to tell my ultra-left friends about the terrain we're dealing with on I-P in DC. They don't want to hear it. They think I'm being a big bully for saying they can't have unicorns and ponies. 

So. Show don't tell. Exhibit 7,233. The court calls Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy to testify. Mr. Progressive Foreign Policy. Mr. I-want-to-be-the-Elizabeth-War ren-of-foreign-policy. To his everlasting credit, the first Senator to say boo about the Obama Administration's support for Saudi Arabia's catastrophic war in Yemen. Enter Chris Murphy. 
Speaking to MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” the Senate Foreign Relations Committee member said the U.N. is “just fundamentally not a fair forum for the Israelis” and that the White House should have vetoed the Security Council measure condemning America’s closest ally in the Middle East.

[my emphasis]
http://www.politico.com/story/ 2016/12/chris-murphy-barack-ob ama-john-kerry-israel-donald-t rump-233026
Chris Murphy's comment about the UN is pure sophistry, and Chris Murphy, as a not-completely-stupid person, surely knows it. Say the Human Rights Council is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. Say the General Assembly is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. The Security Council is not the Human Rights Council and is not the General Assembly, and as a not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. The United States of F*ing America has a VETO on the UN Security Council. NOTHING HAPPENS at the UN Security Council without US permission, and as a not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. Not to mention the subsidiary fact that to define Britain and France and even Russia as "anti-Israel," you have to define "anti-Israel" as "people who insist that we eat our vegetables before we can eat our dessert." If the UK and France are "anti-Israel," then your spouse who gently tries to suggest that maybe you've had enough wine to drink at the party is anti-Semitic.    
===
Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1





_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


 
   
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Thu Dec 29 20:05:14 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 14:05:14 -0600
Subject: [Peace] Et tu, Brute? Chris Murphy bashes Obama, Kerry,
	UN on UNSC Res 2334
In-Reply-To: <675989440.3184929.1483036000576@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CALMNhNQ=MMM=xx8sM2B6Bz6ExgiObaNsA0CCMbsL8Hv=FdVPqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <675989440.3184929.1483036000576@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A59ACE90-50F9-40CB-BA14-4EC1B36F8C45@illinois.edu>

“...it hardly seems helpful to focus on 'anti-Semitism' among Trump advisors…”

Exactly. The task would seem to be to discourage the colonization of the Trump administration by the neocons, as they did the Obama administration. 

They were frightened by Trump’s opposition to the war party. Let’s encourage their fears.

—CGE


> On Dec 29, 2016, at 12:26 PM, David Green via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Bob, I get that politicians are afraid of displeasing their Zionist donors. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps I'm experiencing some end-of-the-year density.
> 
> Nevertheless, look at the comments in response to the NYT editorial, as well as the editorial itself:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/opinion/is-israel-abandoning-a-two-state-solution.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0
> 
> Sort the comments by readers picks. This signals a significant change among liberal readers of the NYT. Admittedly, it is provoked mostly by their defense of Obama and their opposition to Trump. There is a certain superficiality regarding this issue among those who have kept silent during the Obama administration; but clearly there are a lot of repressed individuals who no longer feel they have anything to lose by criticizing Israel. And ironically, with Trump coming into office in reconciliation with Russia, he is also provoking sensible and perhaps effective opposition to his prospective hardline policy on I/P, including and especially among Jews.
> 
> I can't imagine that this would have transpired with an incoming HRC administration.
> 
> Under these circumstances, it hardly seems helpful to focus on "anti-Semitism" among Trump advisors, if that's what anyone is doing, and I fear that indeed is what JVP has been doing.
> 
> Just food for thought.
> 
> DG
> 
> 
> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:36 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> I try to tell my ultra-left friends about the terrain we're dealing with on I-P in DC. They don't want to hear it. They think I'm being a big bully for saying they can't have unicorns and ponies. 
> 
> So. Show don't tell. Exhibit 7,233. The court calls Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy to testify. Mr. Progressive Foreign Policy. Mr. I-want-to-be-the-Elizabeth-War ren-of-foreign-policy. To his everlasting credit, the first Senator to say boo about the Obama Administration's support for Saudi Arabia's catastrophic war in Yemen. Enter Chris Murphy. 
> 
> Speaking to MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” the Senate Foreign Relations Committee member said the U.N. is “just fundamentally not a fair forum for the Israelis” and that the White House should have vetoed the Security Council measure condemning America’s closest ally in the Middle East.
> 
> [my emphasis]
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/ 2016/12/chris-murphy-barack-ob ama-john-kerry-israel-donald-t rump-233026
> 
> Chris Murphy's comment about the UN is pure sophistry, and Chris Murphy, as a not-completely-stupid person, surely knows it. Say the Human Rights Council is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. Say the General Assembly is "not a fair forum for the Israelis." Fine. The Security Council is not the Human Rights Council and is not the General Assembly, and as a not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. The United States of F*ing America has a VETO on the UN Security Council. NOTHING HAPPENS at the UN Security Council without US permission, and as a not-completely-stupid person, Chris Murphy surely knows that. Not to mention the subsidiary fact that to define Britain and France and even Russia as "anti-Israel," you have to define "anti-Israel" as "people who insist that we eat our vegetables before we can eat our dessert." If the UK and France are "anti-Israel," then your spouse who gently tries to suggest that maybe you've had enough wine to drink at the party is anti-Semitic.    
> 
> ===


From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Thu Dec 29 20:33:42 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:33:42 -0500
Subject: [Peace] JFP alert: Chris Murphy: Stop Attacking Obama, Kerry,
	& the UN
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQ3DccCR-hpFRumfEfW+3N5iFtcZ1yL+A8tYKxWRr+WDA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Just Foreign Policy <info at justforeignpolicy.org>
Date: Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:27 PM
Subject: Chris Murphy: Stop Attacking Obama, Kerry, & the UN
To: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org


[image: Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=yificdEUwzvO93U9fNxcfBIXcUWe4jrG>


Dear Robert,

*Urge Chris Murphy to stop attacking Obama, Kerry, & the UN for the UNSC
vote against Israeli settlements.*
Take Action
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Xs7midC21HDc6jR%2FYFYSJxIXcUWe4jrG>

It's horrible but not surprising that some Democrats are slamming President
Obama, Secretary of State Kerry, and the United Nations in the wake of
President Obama's decision not to veto a UN Security Council resolution
re-affirming that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under
international law.

*But the actions of Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy are particularly
disappointing.* Murphy has sought to position himself as a progressive
voice on foreign policy. He was the first Senator
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=yificdEUwzuzjLVHPXzZsxIXcUWe4jrG>
to call out the Obama Administration's support for Saudi Arabia's
catastrophic war in Yemen.

Yet this morning, Murphy told
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=YedDBqQQfB6blgYwHcJafBNIy7DQjxBl>
MSNBC’s "Morning Joe" that *the UN is "not a fair forum for the Israelis"*
and that *the White House should have vetoed the Security Council
resolution against Israeli settlements in the West Bank*. Murphy's attack
on the UN was *pure sophistry*, since the forum in question was the *UN
Security Council*, where the US has a *permanent veto*. Nothing happens in
the UN Security Council without US permission, and nothing ever will.
That's a fundamental fact about the design of the United Nations, and *Chris
Murphy knows it*.

*Urge Chris Murphy to stop his attacks on President Obama, Secretary of
State Kerry, and the United Nations by signing our petition at MoveOn
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=MaR4%2BXgBeimQVclmsnT1ixIXcUWe4jrG>.*


Thanks for all you do to help make U.S. foreign policy more just,

Robert Naiman, Avram Reisman, and Sarah Burns
Just Foreign Policy

*We are trying to raise $20,000 before the end of this month!*
If you think our work is important, support us with a $17 donation.
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/donate
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=Y5LL8hEYYywAn4Bg7QXo1RIXcUWe4jrG>

[image: Please support our work. Donate for a Just Foreign Policy]
<http://org.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=93M8oiX0RmI3GHcYPJuvzRIXcUWe4jrG>

© 2016 Just Foreign Policy
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 30 17:41:05 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 12:41:05 -0500
Subject: [Peace] UIUC makes top forty list of "worst colleges for Jewish
	students"
Message-ID: <CALMNhNQXyA93gy1nTFhRG9-ut5v8JO4PrCgmcLK07HBmSz7W3w@mail.gmail.com>

did you know that Jewish students are horribly oppressed at UIUC? it's news
to me.

when I was an undergrad, I remember people at Hillel proudly stating that
ten percent of the UIUC student population was Jewish. It was a rough and
generous estimate, clearly, since there is no official record, and it
appeared to include people who didn't do anything "Jewish," except, you
know, breathe, eat, study, drink, break hearts and get their hearts broken,
just like everybody else.

i strongly prefer that to this defensive crouch. this defensive crouch is
quite unseemly.

https://www.algemeiner.com/the-40-worst-colleges-for-jewish-students-2016/

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 30 19:04:41 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:04:41 -0500
Subject: [Peace] can we "primary" Rick Jacobs? when is his term up? who will
 run against him?
Message-ID: <CALMNhNRNYomixU33Rnxe4hcmEnDBHHPSWPi8vjxEJrXkGMZ21g@mail.gmail.com>

When is his term up? Who can we get to run against him?

As Bernie says: "Enough is enough!"

[...]
Rabbi Rick Jacobs, the president of the Union for Reform Judaism, the
largest Jewish movement in North America, said it was “a miscalculation in
our minds. I think a majority of American Jews would agree, no matter how
one feels about settlements, that the idea that the U.N. is an honest
broker when it comes to Israel is laughable.”
[...]

- American Jews Divided Over Strain in U.S.-Israel Relations
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/american-jews-john-kerry-israel.html

I'm ready to announce my candidacy if we can't find anyone else with the
courage to run. I'll have to bone up on what you say to bless the bread and
what you say to bless the wine. I'm sure there's an online course I can
take from the University of Phoenix.

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Fri Dec 30 21:18:23 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:18:23 -0500
Subject: [Peace] The Hill: Dershowitz: I'll leave Democratic Party if
 Ellison becomes DNC chair
Message-ID: <CALMNhNT1eK3Eb3d=29ey1Gsz9aemFPAWyLw0jsp7d3FUYisM9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, wow. "Please don't throw me in that briar patch."

Note how he gives Obama and Kerry's refusal to veto the UNSC resolution
against Israeli settlements joint status as the sort of nonsense up with
which he will not put. Just to be clear about what Dershowitz is demanding
as his price for not defecting from the Democratic Party. It's not about
the Nation of Islam. It's about the settlements.

"I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a
chairman like Keith Ellison *and through policies like that espoused by
John Kerry and Barack Obama <http://thehill.com/people/barack-obama>*,"
Dershowitz said.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/312243-
harvard-law-professor-i-will-leave-democratic-party-if-they

Dershowitz: I'll leave Democratic Party if Ellison becomes DNC chair
BY NIKITA VLADIMIROV - 12/30/16 03:03 PM EST

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz said Friday he'll leave the
Democratic Party if Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) is appointed the next
chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

“I’m going to tell you right here on this show, and this is news – if they
appoint Keith Ellison to be chairman of the Democratic Party, I will resign
my membership to the Democratic Party after 50 years of being a loyal
Democrat,” Dershowitz told the Fox Business Network
<http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/12/30/alan-dershowitz-if-keith-ellison-is-appointed-dnc-chair-will-resign-my-membership.html>
.

Dershowitz criticized Secretary of State John Kerry
<http://thehill.com/people/john-kerry> for his tough position on Israel and
predicted that the appointment of Ellison will make others leave the
Democratic Party.

"If they now appoint Keith Ellison, who worked with [Nation of Islam leader
Louis] Farrakhan, to be chairman of the DNC, you’re going to see a lot of
people leave,” he said.

Ellison has been vocal
<http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/308640-labor-leader-ellison-anti-semitism-accusations-are-a-smear-campaign>
about
his support for Israel after CNN reported recently on comments he made
several years ago defending the Nation of Islam leader.

Dershowitz also knocked the Obama administration after the passage of a
U.N. Security Council resolution last week condemning Israeli settlements.
The resolution passed 14-0 as the U.S. abstained.

"I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a
chairman like Keith Ellison and through policies like that espoused by John
Kerry and Barack Obama <http://thehill.com/people/barack-obama>,"
Dershowitz said.

Kerry said this week that Israel's settlement policy poses a threat to
regional peace talks with the Palestinians.

"If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic,”
Kerry said during a speech earlier this week. “It cannot be both, and it
won't ever really be at peace."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu criticized
<http://thehill.com/policy/international/312012-netanyahu-blasts-skewed-kerry-speech-on-israel>
Kerry’s
speech on Wednesday, calling it a “great disappointment” that undermined
the Jewish state.
===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From galliher at illinois.edu  Fri Dec 30 21:55:22 2016
From: galliher at illinois.edu (Carl G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 15:55:22 -0600
Subject: [Peace] The Hill: Dershowitz: I'll leave Democratic Party if
	Ellison becomes DNC chair
In-Reply-To: <CALMNhNT1eK3Eb3d=29ey1Gsz9aemFPAWyLw0jsp7d3FUYisM9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALMNhNT1eK3Eb3d=29ey1Gsz9aemFPAWyLw0jsp7d3FUYisM9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40911D74-82D5-4A55-B019-1E87ABF48E22@illinois.edu>

"Rep. Keith Ellison, the Personification of the Phony, Pro-War ‘Progressive’" - but it's an ill wind that blows no good:

<http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/rep-keith-ellison-personification-phony-pro-war-%E2%80%9Cprogressive%E2%80%9D> 


> On Dec 30, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Oh, wow. "Please don't throw me in that briar patch."
> 
> Note how he gives Obama and Kerry's refusal to veto the UNSC resolution against Israeli settlements joint status as the sort of nonsense up with which he will not put. Just to be clear about what Dershowitz is demanding as his price for not defecting from the Democratic Party. It's not about the Nation of Islam. It's about the settlements.   
> 
> "I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a chairman like Keith Ellison and through policies like that espoused by John Kerry and Barack Obama," Dershowitz said.
> 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/312243-harvard-law-professor-i-will-leave-democratic-party-if-they
> 
> Dershowitz: I'll leave Democratic Party if Ellison becomes DNC chair
> BY NIKITA VLADIMIROV - 12/30/16 03:03 PM EST
> 
> Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz said Friday he'll leave the Democratic Party if Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) is appointed the next chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC).
> 
> “I’m going to tell you right here on this show, and this is news – if they appoint Keith Ellison to be chairman of the Democratic Party, I will resign my membership to the Democratic Party after 50 years of being a loyal Democrat,” Dershowitz told the Fox Business Network.
> 
> Dershowitz criticized Secretary of State John Kerry for his tough position on Israel and predicted that the appointment of Ellison will make others leave the Democratic Party.
> 
> "If they now appoint Keith Ellison, who worked with [Nation of Islam leader Louis] Farrakhan, to be chairman of the DNC, you’re going to see a lot of people leave,” he said.
> 
> Ellison has been vocal about his support for Israel after CNN reported recently on comments he made several years ago defending the Nation of Islam leader.
> 
> Dershowitz also knocked the Obama administration after the passage of a U.N. Security Council resolution last week condemning Israeli settlements. The resolution passed 14-0 as the U.S. abstained.
> 
> "I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a chairman like Keith Ellison and through policies like that espoused by John Kerry and Barack Obama," Dershowitz said.
> 
> Kerry said this week that Israel's settlement policy poses a threat to regional peace talks with the Palestinians.
> 
> "If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic,” Kerry said during a speech earlier this week. “It cannot be both, and it won't ever really be at peace."
> 
> Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu criticized Kerry’s speech on Wednesday, calling it a “great disappointment” that undermined the Jewish state.
> 
> ===
> 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace


From cge at shout.net  Fri Dec 30 23:20:27 2016
From: cge at shout.net (C. G. Estabrook)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:20:27 -0600
Subject: [Peace] UPTV programs this week
Message-ID: <2e2e33b754febf97f0d8bcf73b1f6ae6@shout.net>

AWARE ON THE AIR - Episode #393 | Tuesday 27 December 2016.
Members and friends of AWARE, the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of 
Champaign-Urbana, present a weekly hour of discussion of the US 
government's war-making and its attendant racism: 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzoJHMr_D2g>.
Produced and directed by Yousef Kash for Urbana (IL) Public TV.

NEWS FROM NEPTUNE - Episode #324, a Personal is Political edition | 
Friday 30 December 2016.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKkrwW7cIU>.
Since 1990, News from Neptune has been a weekly hour of spontaneous and 
unrehearsed discussion of the news of the week and its coverage by the 
media, first on a soi-disant community radio station, and now on Urbana 
(IL) Public TV.
This edition was produced and directed by Yousef Kash. The discussants 
are C. G. Estabrook and David Green.

###

From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sat Dec 31 17:20:18 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2016 12:20:18 -0500
Subject: [Peace] Matt Taibbi: Something About This Russia Story Stinks
Message-ID: <CALMNhNTZ=47cqzxLOS_amsxy1phhFqCjh+dYWGduwJUHym59xA@mail.gmail.com>

Something About This Russia Story Stinks
Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press
is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-abou
t-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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From naiman at justforeignpolicy.org  Sat Dec 31 17:25:53 2016
From: naiman at justforeignpolicy.org (Robert Naiman)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2016 12:25:53 -0500
Subject: [Peace] G. Greenwald: Russia Hysteria Infects WaPo Again: False
 Story About Hacking U.S. Electric Grid
Message-ID: <CALMNhNSPh-tYXKwXh=UDfrxiLZJ_FjGt92Ms_g41zof+dAz+pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Russia Hysteria Infects WashPost Again: False Story About Hacking U.S.
Electric Grid
Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept, December 31 2016, 8:44 a.m.
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-
washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1 <(202)%20448-2898>
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