[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Thu Dec 22 18:56:17 UTC 2016

Belden—

On the contrary, I’m certainly willing to "accept responsibility" for those opinions: I quoted those sources because I think they’re correct, and I’m more than willing to defend them.

Anyone who’s paid attention to political writing in the US (and the UK) in last 40 years knows of Alex Cockburn (whom I’m honored to have called a friend) and his reputation.

With many others, he recognized that identity politics was the scam that American liberals substituted for their craven abandonment of class politics in the 1970s, under the assault of neoliberalism.  

(The increasing hysteria with which liberals assert their IP reveals their bad conscience; those who need further information on the matter should see Walter Benn Michaels' piece in the current Nation.) 

Alex, unquestionably a man of the Left, exposed soi-disant socialists who were in fact neoliberals - the SPLC being a prime example, as he explains.

Regards, Carl

[PS - Anyone who wants serious discussion on these and related matters should look at the journal/website Alex founded, CounterPunch - now edited by Jeffrey St. Clair, author of the recently-published "Bernie & the Sandernistas: Field Notes From a Failed Revolution.”] 

> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Carl,
> 
> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
> Belden
> 
> 
> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
> To: Estabrook, Carl G
> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
> 
> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
> 
> Debra
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>> 
>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>> 
>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>> 
>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>> 
>> —CGE
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>> 
>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>> 
>>> Debra
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>> 
>>>>> —mkb
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ____
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