[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Fri Dec 23 12:31:05 UTC 2016

Members of the US political class (in Max Weber’s sense) who are horrified at Trump (largely because he isn’t PLU) and aghast at his comments "that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal” seem not to have noticed that Obama announced a trillion [sic] dollar program for that last spring:

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/ <https://theintercept.com/2016/02/23/obamas-new-rationale-for-1-trillion-nuclear-program-augurs-a-new-arms-race-with-russia/>

Nuclear weapons (“defense” spending) are a leading example of Obama’s “fake-left-drive-right” politics. After stirring speeches about reducing the arms race with Russia, he expands it. Trump’s suggestion is far short of Obama’s in scope and specificity. And the practical effect of Obama’s policies is clear: in November 2012 he canceled a conference in Helsinki that had intended to establish “nuclear-free zones” in the Middle East; of course he has rejected calls for Israel’s nuclear facilities to be placed under international inspection. 

American 'liberals' who reject Brexit voters as racists, Trump voters as deplorables, and Le Pen voters as neo-Nazis will probably continue to be surprised at the political establishment's inability to make the croppies lie down. The plague of American interventionism - US presidents have killed more than 20 million people in 37 nations since WWII - is being rejected around the world. But the US remains during the Obama administration what M. L. King called it long ago: “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” Under the direction of Obama's National Security Council, US ’special forces,’ with 70,000 members, are active in more than 130 countries around the world: their activities include kidnapping ("rendition"), murder, and torture.  

If Trump brings ‘moderation’ to Obama’s appalling record - ignored by US media but not elsewhere - it will be a consummation devoutly to be wished.   

Regards, Carl

[PS - the career of Senator Joseph McCarthy (1908-57) is worth recalling, for comparison purposes. He took a Democratic party program “to scare hell out of the American people” (Sen. Vandenberg) in order to increase military spending against the resistance of an anti-war public, and made it a personal vehicle until he revealed its foolishness and was brushed aside; the program lived on.]

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 3:45 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> And how do Trump's twitter pronouncements Thursday that the US should greatly expand its nuclear arsenal fit into Carl's  image of him as a latter-day "moderate"--an "anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War...."?
> 
> Marine Le Pen has learned from neo-Nazis around Europe and elsewhere, that if you dress like establishment figures and talk more like establishment figures, toning down the racist and inflammatory rhetoric to dog whistles and hitting notes of economic and cultural insecurity you get a lot further. No one ever looks like Joe McCarthy--that's how they get in the door.
> Deb
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 7:55 PM, "Brussel, Morton K via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Belden,
>> 
>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>> 
>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>> 
>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>> 
>> Mort
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>> 
>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=0YVFRLE6eTYub_eqgfKyioiwmGRGcVenAAnUcM1kHvw&s=cnbN8tHZmP5ZRnws_fwEd4fdGqwpcRuypnaGxgrygD8&e=>
>>> 
>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ____
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