[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Fri Dec 23 18:41:55 UTC 2016

Hi Mort,

First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.

Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.

Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.

Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.

Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i

I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.

Belden

________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Cc: peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Belden,

I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?

On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well.

Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities.

Mort

On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu<mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Mort,

I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.

I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.

Belden

________________________________
From: Brussel, Morton K
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Fields, A Belden
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/

This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue.

—mkb

On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Carl,

Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.
Belden

________________________________
From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
To: Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net<mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. >From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?

The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.

Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.

The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next.

—CGE

On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?

That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you.

Debra

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.

I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE

On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent.

Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues.

I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>

—mkb

On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

"This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”

http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>

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