[Peace] Against hysteria

Sun Dec 25 02:41:33 UTC 2016

Anyone on these lists who wants a serious - rather than fanciful - account of the current Russian state should consult

Perry Anderson, “Incommensurate Russia,” New Left Review 94 (July-August 2015) <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia <https://newleftreview.org/II/94/perry-anderson-incommensurate-russia>>.

Perhaps AWARE should consider sponsoring a teach-in in the new semester on “The Russian Regime: Implications for the New Administration."

The task would be to counter the literally incredible propaganda issuing from the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) and their academic épigones.

—CGE

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 3:04 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Mort,
> 
> I have also used the regime to apply to the US govt.  I and others in pol sci got censured by the board of trustees for referring to the Nixon Admin as a criminal regime.  For me, as for most political scientists, a regime is a system of governance  in place.  So yes, the US govt is a regime.  So you don't need to be so defensive of Putin on that score.
> 
> It is true that the French Jewish population is more uniformly supportive of the Israeli government and its polices than is the case in the US.  But French anti-Semitism has very old roots, well before Israel was created.  Remember the Dryfus Affair.  Remember the behavior of the French police in turning over Jews to the Nazis during Vichy. Some of those Vichyites and Nazi collaborators founded the National Front that you find so palatable. And the support for Israel in no way justifies the violent attacks against Jews in France any more than it would in the US.  
> 
> I have not had access to Putin's bank account, any more than I have access to Trump's tax returns.
> I have read about his associates among the oligarchs.  A political ruler him or herself does not have to have a large annual income to be very well situated.  When former oligarch associates of Putin cross him, they pay dearly, sometimes with their lives.  
> 
> Putin was very high in the KGB, the intelligence service of a totalitarian regime.  That, in itself, should tell you something about him.
> 
> Mort, I do not hope to convince you.  I just hope that you, and I, never have to live in a world dominated by the Trumps, Putins, and Le Pens and their cohorts in Europe, all at once.  Some of us on the Left made too many excuses for Stalin.  You say that Putin has massive support in Russia.  True.  Hitler did as well in Germany.  Mass mobilization is characteristically part of the process in creating and maintaining totalitarian systems.  The right-wing, ultranationalist, populist appeal (as the "Socialist" in "National Socialism") has always played a crucial role.
> 
> Enough said,
> 
> I wish you and Phyllis a Merry Christmas
> 
> Belden
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Brussel, Morton K
> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 4:33 PM
> To: Fields, A Belden
> Cc: peace; sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; Mohraz, Jane E
> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
> 
> I guess a reply is warranted:
> 
> You seem to have inside information (from the NYT?) about the internal policies in Russia under Putin.  I’m skeptical, for much of it is consistent with so much that is published elsewhere in  our new cold war. Putin’s popularity in Russia is well recognized, despite all of his claimed “excesses”. In other words, theRussian people think his policies have been beneficial (on the whole). I know nothing of his personal wealth, although I’ve heard the retrograde Richard Tempest elaborate on that. Can you give a reliable reference to this claim? I think the issue in any case is largely irrelevant, more in the way of character assassination. Obama and Clinton have also amassed considerable wealth, no doubt. Putin's taming of (some of the) oligarchs is not so bad, I think. But I would agree that his party is controlling Russian policies/politics almost as much as our elites/oligarchs are controlling ours. 
> 
> You impute to Marine le Pen much evil, not the least antisemitism. I cannot assess your anecdotal information, but I do know that she is not being criticized on that issue in the French media, so perhaps indeed she has changed her spots, really . As for her positions relative to immigrants, you are probably right, but I feel that immigration of “others” is a wide cultural problem in France and elsewhere (Germany, Poland, UK, Italy, …). People are disturbed when they feel that their culture is being “infiltrated” with the changes (religious, economic, ethnic, etc.)  that mass immigration entails. It is not just a question of racist bigotry, as you claim. 
> 
> Antisemitism in France: You seem to be obsessed by that. It requires a sociological study. But I do know that the Jewish/Zionist lobby in France is as powerful as it is in the USA, so that criticism of Israeli policies is almost forbidden in France. Is that because the French have a guilty conscience with respect to what occurred to French Jews  in WWII? That there has been a modest exodus of Jews to Israel may be just a reflection of the power of Zionists in France. But it is probable that the increase in the Muslim population in France is also a cause. Muslims tend to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause—are antiZionist. My conclusion is that antisemitism in France is overstated, despite some bad incidents, and used as a battering ram against those who would oppose Israeli policies. . 
> 
> My close friends in France, one of whom is Jewish, have not brought up as a fact that a major problem in France (and humanity) is antisemitism. But that too is anecdotal.
> 
> What is your evidence that Putin is supporting "ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces”. What does the support consist of, aside from some praise of Le Pen? Of course, he is not unhappy that Le Pen, as is Trump, seems not to be engaged or interested in the new cold war against Russia, but that cannot, obviously, be held against him. 
> 
> I note the pejorative “régime” that Putin is the head of. What would you call our political system?
> 
> I’ve undoubtedly overwritten. My apologies.
> 
> And best wishes for a healthy and happier next year. Respectfully,
> 
> Mort
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mort,
>> 
>> First, I think you misunderstood what I meant by opposition-killing regime.  I was was not referring to what Russia did in Grozny or Aleppo (though I consider both of those war crimes--and I say that as one who has criticized US war crimes from Vietnam to Iraq).  I was talking about the internal practices of Putin, the killing, imprisonment, and financial ruin of those who opposed him publicly or even reporters who just report the misdeeds of his  regime.
>> 
>> Second, I too have been following the National Front closely.  Before that, in the 1960s, I had interviewed a leading member of the Action Francaise, its predecessor. Deb is absolutely right. Marine purged her father because he was always being hauled into court over his anti-Semitic statements. It was just bad PR for the Front.
>> The friend of a French friend of mine was a fellow student of Marine's and reports that she was a rabid anti-Semite.  But now immigrants and the large North African Arab permanent population are more politically  expedient targets.  Don't minimize that Mort.  Bigotry is bigotry.  And it is not just against the newer immigrants.  It  is  against the ghettoized North African-French people as well.  The Front's idolized vision of the true "French" person, is the francais de souche--white, Christian (does not have to be practicing), with long historical roots in France.  Of course, they do not  say this out loud.  They are way too smart now. m They have to use the millions they get from the Russian bank cleverly.
>> 
>> Regarding anti-Semitism.  The Jewish population in France, which was the largest in Western  Europe, has been diminishing  rapidly in recent years.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there have very frequent violent attacks against visibly apparent Jews and Jewish institutions in France by North Africans Moslems.  Second is the growing strength of the National Front.  Just as they do did not fit the Nazi definition of an Aryan, so Jews do not fit the Front's definition of a true French person.  Most of them have been going to Israel for safety.
>> 
>> Which brings me to the  saddest irony that someone who contends that Zionism is racism would give the National Front such a free pass on its bigotry, which is directed openly against Arab Moslems and now  covertly against Jews.  Xenophobic bigots should be called out as such.  Putin's willingness to support such ultra-nationalistic, fascistic, and sometimes neo-Nazi (as in Austria) forces brings no credit to him or his regime.
>> For an older guy like me, it brings back the Hitler-Stalin Pact that so  shook the anti-fascist movements in US and Western Europe.
>> 
>> Attached you will find an abridged copy  of an article I  wrote on the National Front in the January 2016 issue of the Public i
>> 
>> I wish everyone a peaceful and healthy 2017.
>> 
>> Belden
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:55 PM
>> To: Fields, A Belden
>> Cc: peace
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>> 
>> Belden,
>> 
>> I might say that you are being too mild with respect to the NATO/U.S moves towards Russian Borders. Yes, those moves are provocative, but more than that, they are militantly aggressive; U.S. leaders would probably not be unhappy to see a proxy conflict arise between Ukraine and Russia, hoping it to be conducive to regime change in Russia. The U.S. is arming Ukraine (and the Baltic states) for that purpose, why else?  
>> 
>> On the other hand, I have been following what has been occurring in France closely. Marine Le Pen is not her father, she has not assumed his racist belligerent anti-semitic character, even though she she does espouse anti-immigration policies. Many, and not only from the far-right, are drawn to her, not only because of her relatively benign regard to Russia,  but also due to her  anti-Brussels European federalist  and NATO, policies—causing a loss of French sovereignty. There is something to be said for that. That is why she could win the coming presidential election there. Aside from the fact that both want to be more friendly to Russia, she is far from being an equivalent to Trump. Moreover, I believe Europe (NATO) and the U.S.should  cease their economic and military  cold war policies, policies which could lead to a disastrous conflagration. The U.S. war hawks and their media are acting with respect to Ukraine just as they have in Syria, not so stealthily pushing dangerous provocations. Cohen elaborates this argument well. 
>> 
>> Finally, are you not also falling into the trap of demonizing Russia by calling it an “opposition killing state”? Is the USA a less "opposition killing state"? Who has been more killingly destructive in recent decades? My opinion is that Russia under Putin has been a stabilizing influence compared to the U.S., perhaps due in part to her far weaker military capabilities. 
>> 
>> Mort
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mort,
>>> 
>>> I just looked at the piece by Cohen in the Nation. I have always agreed with him that NATO was too provocative vs Russia in Eastern Europe.  But I think Cohen puts it too mildly when he talks about Russia supporting "anti-status quo" movements in Europe.  I  understand Putin's desire to use any tool to fight back, but the movements he is supporting, including the French National Front in Front, are racist, xenophobic groups founded by collaborators in France and former Nazis in Austria.  The combination of these groups coming to power, and allying with the puritanical/authoritarian/opposition killing  state of Russia, is not a result I  look forward to.  Just look at Hungary under Oban.
>>> 
>>> I think we should continue to be critical of the neo-cons of either party in the US, but we should also be very wary of the process going on in Europe now that Putin is encouraging--even if we understand why he is doing it.
>>> 
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Brussel, Morton K
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 12:36 PM
>>> To: Fields, A Belden
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> I believe that Carl is primarily and justly concerned with US. wars and other depredations, and, in these perilous times, the new cold war—getting increasingly warmer— between the U.S. government and Russia/Putin. In this, he will find some confirmation of his attitude in the fascinating and enlightening podcast of Stephen Cohen on the subject of the demonization of Russia/Putin by the war parties inn D.C. Watch:  https://www.thenation.com/article/american-cold-warriors-want-to-fight-russia-not-terrorism/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.thenation.com_article_american-2Dcold-2Dwarriors-2Dwant-2Dto-2Dfight-2Drussia-2Dnot-2Dterrorism_&d=DQMF-g&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=LJeOlFEcfqeumbK7sxbGa2TB2EZ__rMIqyfr7uOfHEE&m=64E7NhgNDQccJGO3gu_w4wqadu8648MCxA0aXJMxA4o&s=cHwcD9LzcFeC2TQumdrMCHpg8jnAA9_KJx92BX1kATA&e=>
>>> 
>>> This is not an excuse relating to other mattters here discussed, but I think it is an important issue. 
>>> 
>>> —mkb
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Fields, A Belden via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carl,
>>>> 
>>>> Your quoting from another source (the duran) contending that Trump is a moderate and your extensive quote in today's News-Gazette from Alexander Cockburn (whom you characterize as the "best political reporter in the US in his generation--a dubious contention at best) slamming the Southern Poverty Law Center as money-grabbing, are evasions in which  you accept no responsibility because you are just quoting other sources.  This  is a cowardly way to write. I find your "letter" in the the N-G particularly offensive because it appeals to the generally conservative readers of the N-G to view the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the major stalwarts against bigotry in this country, to be a rotten organization.  We need the Center now more than ever.
>>>> You present yourself as critically progressive, but have a knack of serving the right.  Your attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center is particularly low and gratuitous, even for you.  It is beneath contemptible.  
>>>> Belden
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:13 AM
>>>> To: Estabrook, Carl G
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>>> 
>>>> As Mort writes, we do not know what policies the Trump regime will pursue. From his past words and actions and his Cabinet and staff nominations--including many white supremacists and individuals connected to racism and a disregard for civil rights, science deniers, skeptics of public education, and the potential for graft and corruption--we have ample reason to be concerned about both his character and his policies. To ignore this man's despicable character, as evidenced by his racism and xenophobia and fascist tendencies and his choices in staffing the next administration (regime), is to condone it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:48 AM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Debra
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ____
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> <Le Pens abridged.docx>
> 
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: "Fields, A Belden" <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> 
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